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(Forbes)   Schadenfreude time: Unions cry that ObamaCare will shatter their benefits and destroy the 40 hour work week. You supported it, you live with it   (forbes.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, obamacare, United Food, health insurance, Richard Trumka, perverse incentives, American middle class, UFCW, Teamsters  
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2774 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jul 2013 at 2:31 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 02:48:55 PM  

jst3p: Testiclaw: Choo-Choo Bear: This is brought to you by the same folks that don't understand increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.  Businesses aren't going to cut into their profits to pay more.  They are going to find a way to decrease their losses, and that generally means cutting back on employee hours / shifts / benefits / etc...

It's not a good thing, but it's a true thing.  Economics 101.

Since we can look at corporate profits and the implementation of the minimum wage, unemployment and subsequent increases, can you provide evidence to support your first assertion?

If it is Economics 101 I'm sure a simple graph is out there, the same way it is easy to find images of basics for Math 101.

It is pretty simple, he went to a top 5 economics school. You have to think in terms of an island where the coconuts represent healthcare...


I bundle a few bad coconuts together with passable ones and use them as leverage for my banana default swaps, and run a tiki-derivative against the entire scheme.

Mary-Ann is my secretary.

Ginger my lobbyist.
 
2013-07-15 02:50:18 PM  
You Farkers and Farkettes are welcome to some of my health care. I got lots.
 
2013-07-15 02:50:48 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Actually, Obamacare will keep your working situation exactly the same, except now you actually have a chance at qualifying for and getting healthcare.

/and I'm supposed to be upset about this, why again?


...if you really think that corporations won't try and pull the "Part-time no benefits" stunt, then you probably think that some Texas hospital will ever give admitting privileges to a known abortion doctor, especially after the new law is in place.
 
2013-07-15 02:50:55 PM  

SovietCanuckistan: You Farkers and Farkettes are welcome to some of my health care. I got lots.


Free healthcare if you end every sentence with "eh"?
 
2013-07-15 02:51:12 PM  

OregonVet: Darth_Lukecash: So fark em. When there was commies in this world corporations HAD to provide a better living conditions to keep from political overthrow from happening. Now there is no threat.


That's your best response?

Historically speaking, communism and fascism were the response to social woes of the time. Especially when the Great Depression hit. Corporations learned very quickly that the only way they could retain any amount of stability and influence was to have democracies and republics. Otherwise the would no longer exist under Communist Rule, or be at the mercy of a dictators mad whim.

Some countries took a socialist bent, America took a more capitalist approach. That means competition. Commies got free health care. Socialism provided it. Capitalist offered it as a benefit

Now that communistic revolution is less likely- all corporations are now dropping healthcare as a benifit. A bribery to placate their workers to do be good productive workers..
 
2013-07-15 02:53:48 PM  
Also: in before, "the average American is better off than a lower caste worker in India, so stop complaining."
 
2013-07-15 02:55:32 PM  
Any failings in the Affordable Care Act could be fixed by Congress, it is after all their job, but the Republicans absolutely refuse to do anything that will benefit the non-rich.
 
2013-07-15 02:55:51 PM  

SovietCanuckistan: You Farkers and Farkettes are welcome to some of my health care. I got lots.


That would be cheating your system... We're in pretty bad shape.
 
2013-07-15 02:56:32 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: So it's Obama's fault that some CEOs are assholes who refuse to take care of their employees? Human Resources?  HR?  HR Department ID?


CEOs only care about quality  workmanship reputation child labor laws in 3rd world countriesstock price..
 
2013-07-15 02:57:56 PM  

jst3p: Testiclaw: Choo-Choo Bear: This is brought to you by the same folks that don't understand increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.  Businesses aren't going to cut into their profits to pay more.  They are going to find a way to decrease their losses, and that generally means cutting back on employee hours / shifts / benefits / etc...

It's not a good thing, but it's a true thing.  Economics 101.

Since we can look at corporate profits and the implementation of the minimum wage, unemployment and subsequent increases, can you provide evidence to support your first assertion?

If it is Economics 101 I'm sure a simple graph is out there, the same way it is easy to find images of basics for Math 101.

It is pretty simple, he went to a top 5 economics school. You have to think in terms of an island where the coconuts represent healthcare...


Oh man. You know, I was convinced he was an intellectually-challenged wingnut. But I'd completely forgotten about the coconuts.
 
2013-07-15 02:58:00 PM  

Testiclaw: jst3p: Testiclaw: Choo-Choo Bear: This is brought to you by the same folks that don't understand increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.  Businesses aren't going to cut into their profits to pay more.  They are going to find a way to decrease their losses, and that generally means cutting back on employee hours / shifts / benefits / etc...

It's not a good thing, but it's a true thing.  Economics 101.

Since we can look at corporate profits and the implementation of the minimum wage, unemployment and subsequent increases, can you provide evidence to support your first assertion?

If it is Economics 101 I'm sure a simple graph is out there, the same way it is easy to find images of basics for Math 101.

It is pretty simple, he went to a top 5 economics school. You have to think in terms of an island where the coconuts represent healthcare...

I bundle a few bad coconuts together with passable ones and use them as leverage for my banana default swaps, and run a tiki-derivative against the entire scheme.

Mary-Ann is my secretary.

Ginger my lobbyist.


That leaves Mrs Howell as your sex slave...
 
2013-07-15 02:59:08 PM  

Summercat: Choo-Choo Bear: This is brought to you by the same folks that don't understand increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.  Businesses aren't going to cut into their profits to pay more.  They are going to find a way to decrease their losses, and that generally means cutting back on employee hours / shifts / benefits / etc...

It's not a good thing, but it's a true thing.  Economics 101.

Which will then hit their ability to make profits, when they lack the manpower to do things.

My mother is an assistant manager at a Dollar Tree. They had some shennanagins with another AM who wasn't properly getting work done, so merch didn't go out and sales suffered. The district manager cut the store's availble hours - and now my mother can't get enough people working to get the store sorted out, and the DM wants to cut hours even more.

I... I don't understand this. I honestly don't. If a problem can be solved by adding manpower, WHY CUT MANPOWER?

Walmart is running into the same problem.


Just a guess: cutting manpower is what makes the district manager look when it comes to bonus time.
 
2013-07-15 02:59:48 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: "The percentage of workers employed part-time has been rising since 2007, increasing from 16.7 percent to 22.2 percent in 2011, the EBRI said. Over that period, the nonpartisan, nonprofit research institute found part-time workers experienced a much larger decline in health coverage than fulltime workers. Between 2007 and 2011, full-time workers experienced a 2.8 percent reduction in the likelihood of having coverage from their own jobs, while part-time workers suffered a 15.7 percent decline."

http://www.benefitspro.com/2013/05/28/shift-to-part-time-workers-beg an -pre-ppaca


Let's look at it from the flip side then.

- Businesses with 20 to 99 employees, those with the most impetus to either stop hiring or fire people to get under the 50 employee threshold, make up only 9% of American businesses.
- Just more than six out of seven businesses with 25 to 49 employees offer health insurance as a benefit.
- Just fewer than nineteen out of twenty businesses with 50 to 199 employees offer health insurance as a benefit.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/healthcare/relax-obamacare-s-employer -m andate-affects-few-businesses-20130703
 
2013-07-15 03:00:23 PM  

qorkfiend: Summercat: Choo-Choo Bear: This is brought to you by the same folks that don't understand increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.  Businesses aren't going to cut into their profits to pay more.  They are going to find a way to decrease their losses, and that generally means cutting back on employee hours / shifts / benefits / etc...

It's not a good thing, but it's a true thing.  Economics 101.

Which will then hit their ability to make profits, when they lack the manpower to do things.

My mother is an assistant manager at a Dollar Tree. They had some shennanagins with another AM who wasn't properly getting work done, so merch didn't go out and sales suffered. The district manager cut the store's availble hours - and now my mother can't get enough people working to get the store sorted out, and the DM wants to cut hours even more.

I... I don't understand this. I honestly don't. If a problem can be solved by adding manpower, WHY CUT MANPOWER?

Walmart is running into the same problem.

Just a guess: cutting manpower is what makes the district manager look when it comes to bonus time.


look best when it comes to bonus time.
 
2013-07-15 03:01:45 PM  

IlGreven: The My Little Pony Killer: Actually, Obamacare will keep your working situation exactly the same, except now you actually have a chance at qualifying for and getting healthcare.

/and I'm supposed to be upset about this, why again?

...if you really think that corporations won't try and pull the "Part-time no benefits" stunt, then you probably think that some Texas hospital will ever give admitting privileges to a known abortion doctor, especially after the new law is in place.


The ACA defines "full time" as 30-hours per week, per month, on average. Good luck trying to run a competitive business without full time employees under that definition.
 
2013-07-15 03:02:22 PM  

Corvus: Wow "Obmacare" is so horrible it went back in time and raised healthcare spending.


Yes, but let's not overlook like some Saudi Shiek will go into MD Anderson to raise his chances of survival from pancreatic cancer from 1% to 1.25%, therefore we have the greatest system in the world that best serves the needs for for  300 million Americans.
 
2013-07-15 03:02:33 PM  
Hold on, didn't the ACA or some followup bill REDEFINE "full-time" as closer to 30 hours and up, precisely so employers wouldn't be able to pull this shiat?
 
2013-07-15 03:02:45 PM  
"...shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class."

Wasn't part of the point that you wanted to move to a system in which health benefits aren't, "earned?"

Connecting health care to our jobs was always a silly idea from the start. I wish there was a way we could get rid of that without too much turmoil.
 
2013-07-15 03:05:07 PM  
But now, unions are waking up to the fact that Obamacare is heavily disruptive to the health benefits of their members.

Well, I'm not a part of a union, but my wife's insurance open enrollment just ended, meaning that the new insurance plan rates went into effect. As a result:

1. I got a $25 check for an out of pocket co-pay at some point.
2. My Chiro comped me, and told me that I had 6 more free visits coming because the insurance rebated a lot of money to him.
3. My 'scripts that cost $3 each(Still a great price) cost $4.17 to fill THREE. One was as low as 72 cents.

I just for the life of me can't figure out what happened in the last year to cause me to get all of these benefits. The insurance increase also wasn't wny more than normal.

/Weird, isn't it? I was supposed to be selling organs just to cover a medical copay at this point, according to the Right.
 
2013-07-15 03:05:20 PM  

red5ish: IlGreven: The My Little Pony Killer: Actually, Obamacare will keep your working situation exactly the same, except now you actually have a chance at qualifying for and getting healthcare.

/and I'm supposed to be upset about this, why again?

...if you really think that corporations won't try and pull the "Part-time no benefits" stunt, then you probably think that some Texas hospital will ever give admitting privileges to a known abortion doctor, especially after the new law is in place.

The ACA defines "full time" as 30-hours per week, per month, on average. Good luck trying to run a competitive business without full time employees under that definition.


YES!!!! Thank you, red5ish, for beating me to the punch with cold, hard facts.

(Small quibble - I think it has to be *greater than* 30, not greater-or-equal-to, but I don't have the details on hand.)
 
2013-07-15 03:07:16 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Testiclaw: jst3p: Testiclaw: Choo-Choo Bear: This is brought to you by the same folks that don't understand increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.  Businesses aren't going to cut into their profits to pay more.  They are going to find a way to decrease their losses, and that generally means cutting back on employee hours / shifts / benefits / etc...

It's not a good thing, but it's a true thing.  Economics 101.

Since we can look at corporate profits and the implementation of the minimum wage, unemployment and subsequent increases, can you provide evidence to support your first assertion?

If it is Economics 101 I'm sure a simple graph is out there, the same way it is easy to find images of basics for Math 101.

It is pretty simple, he went to a top 5 economics school. You have to think in terms of an island where the coconuts represent healthcare...

I bundle a few bad coconuts together with passable ones and use them as leverage for my banana default swaps, and run a tiki-derivative against the entire scheme.

Mary-Ann is my secretary.

Ginger my lobbyist.

That leaves Mrs Howell as your sex slave...


What can I say?

I grew up poor, so sticking it to the wealthy is a fetish.
 
2013-07-15 03:07:24 PM  
The Unions are just being unpatriotic, American hating bastards:

Nancy Pelosi: On 4th of July, celebrate Obamacare

"Next week, when we celebrate Independence Day we'll also be observing health independence," Pelosi told reporters today, explaining that "this week marks one year since the Supreme Court upheld the Affordable Care Act. It captures the spirit of our founders," she added, citing the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence."So, we've had Social Security, Medicare, and now health independence, so that's something our members will take home to celebrate over this Independence Day."
 
2013-07-15 03:10:28 PM  
So it's not ObamaCare that's doing this, but rather the companies are finding every trick and loophole they can to continue to dick over the workforce in order to scrounge out every last greasy penny they can? Gee, wonder why Forbes didn't report that.
 
2013-07-15 03:11:00 PM  

hasty ambush: The Unions


Why did you capitalize "unions" here?
 
2013-07-15 03:11:16 PM  
What's amazing is that there is still all this backlash for a program that isn't implemented yet. But everything's going wrong because of it, oh yes indeed.
 
2013-07-15 03:11:24 PM  

Scrotastic Method: So it's not ObamaCare that's doing this, but rather the companies are finding every trick and loophole they can to continue to dick over the workforce in order to scrounge out every last greasy penny they can? Gee, wonder why Forbes didn't report that.


Because this way they can have an article that whines about ACA and unions both. It's like a right-wing coffin-fodder win-win.
 
2013-07-15 03:13:07 PM  

SlothB77: vpb: So, the strategy of using part time workers that has been going on for decades is Obama's fault then?  That guy is amazing.

[www.strangecosmos.com image 450x385]

Before Obamacare: Company A hired full-time workers.
After Obamacare: health care costs go up and Company A decides to change their workers to part-time as a result.

Definitely could be because of Obamacare.


Hitting the ol paint chip bucket early today, are we?
 
2013-07-15 03:13:13 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: hasty ambush: The Unions

Why did you capitalize "unions" here?


Some refer to them as "The Unions", but I prefer to more accurate term:

"The Groups of Workers' Aggression"
 
2013-07-15 03:13:53 PM  
The author of the editorial is classic concern trolling, a member of Mitt Romney's losing team...
 
2013-07-15 03:14:22 PM  
This is just like when Obama made insurance companies raise rates for the first time ever.
 
2013-07-15 03:15:55 PM  

Headso: The author of the editorial is classic concern trolling, a member of Mitt Romney's losing team...


But surely a reputable journalistic publication such as Forb...

You know what, I can't say it with a straight face. Sorry. I will pretend to be a space alien dictator, but I won't call Forbes reputable.
 
2013-07-15 03:18:14 PM  
Unions:  "I got mine, so fark you!"

/the shills are conspicuously absent from this thread.
 
2013-07-15 03:19:10 PM  

Serious Black: Michelle is a little too old to be a companion of the Doctor. Sasha and Malia are a bit young, but that's never stopped a black man before...


Didn't stop this honky either...
www.upl.co
 
2013-07-15 03:19:34 PM  
Hate to you know, have to always point this out, but "Obamacare" is the bloody abortion forced on us by the right. Liberals wanted a public buy in to medicare. Key word there being BUY. Why? Medicare is just farmed out to existing HMO's anymore, except the government is able to, you know, buy in massive bulk and gets a good deal.

But that might have cut down on some fat rich farkers profit margin and made him wait till next month to buy his golden toilet seat and matching bidet. So we got the GOP abortion you all stupidly call "Obamacare" in your 5th grade effort to project.

Thanks for the Heritage Foundation right wing keep the poor folks still away from health care act. Dicks.
 
2013-07-15 03:20:11 PM  

GoldSpider: Unions:  "I got mine negotiated via collective bargaining, so fark you you should unionize too!"

 
2013-07-15 03:22:33 PM  
It is so cute that the union leaders and other uninformed people didn't understand the line: "if you like your plan, you can keep it".

no where was it ever promised that the employer has to keep providing that plan.
 
2013-07-15 03:22:38 PM  
"You supported it, you live with it."  What a great principle.  I'd like to see it applied universally.  For example, many of the people who were shrieking with horror about Obummercare were the same types who goosestepped with ejaculatory glee back in the Iraq Murder Party days.  Too day we couldn't take all of those Mom's-basement-dwelling chickenhawk stormtroopers, shove rifles in their hands, and drop them off in Fallujah, the last words they heard spoken in English to be, "You supported it, you live with it."

But then, they were patriotic Real Murcans, instead of America-hating unions.
 
2013-07-15 03:22:44 PM  

xanadian: Well, Obamacare is the bastard son of what the Heritage Foundation once dreamed up...


I did not realize that Obama and the Democrats were tools of the Heritage Foundation. If only Obama would have disclosed this before election time it might have changed the way you voted.

Government sizes control of 10% of the economy and people, for some stupid reason, expect good things to happen. Obamacare was not about providing healthcare to the uninsured (there are plenty of easier, less costly ways of doing that). It was about expanding the power of the Federal government.
 
2013-07-15 03:22:47 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: GoldSpider: Unions:  "I got mine negotiated via collective bargaining, so fark you you should unionize too!"


I have hesitated with GS going on my ignore list for a while, now.

He will throw in a great, concise post now and again, but he sandwiches them between nine or ten derpfests.

I can't decide.
 
2013-07-15 03:26:08 PM  

hasty ambush: xanadian: Well, Obamacare is the bastard son of what the Heritage Foundation once dreamed up...

I did not realize that Obama and the Democrats were tools of the Heritage Foundation. If only Obama would have disclosed this before election time it might have changed the way you voted.

Government sizes control of 10% of the economy and people, for some stupid reason, expect good things to happen. Obamacare was not about providing healthcare to the uninsured (there are plenty of easier, less costly ways of doing that). It was about expanding the power of the Federal government.


Hey! Those are Sloth's paint chips. You give them back.
 
2013-07-15 03:27:18 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: It is so cute that the union leaders and other uninformed people didn't understand the line: "if you like your plan, you can keep it".

no where was it ever promised that the employer has to keep providing that plan.


that's a good point, "your" plan isn't the same as an "employer provided" plan.  Hey, if you've got the money you can keep whatever you want, if you rely on your employer to provide Insurance to you, well... i guess you'll take what you can get & GBTW.
 
2013-07-15 03:27:57 PM  

hasty ambush: xanadian: Well, Obamacare is the bastard son of what the Heritage Foundation once dreamed up...

I did not realize that Obama and the Democrats were tools of the Heritage Foundation. If only Obama would have disclosed this before election time it might have changed the way you voted.



It is amazing at how much the liberals keep going with their victim mentality.
"This wasn't our plan, it was Heritage's"
"But...but...but...Bush"
"Halliburton!"
"7.5% unemployment, declining wages, underemployment and more people quitting the workforce is great because it could have been worse"

This is not the CHANGE that we HOPED for.
 
2013-07-15 03:28:39 PM  

TALES FROM THE HASTY AMBUSH BUG



img5.imageshack.us

hasty ambush: .

Government sizes control of 10% of the economy and people, for some stupid reason, expect good things to happen. Obamacare was not about providing healthcare to the uninsured (there are plenty of easier, less costly ways of doing that). It was about expanding the power of the Federal government.

 
2013-07-15 03:28:44 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Actually, Obamacare will keep your working situation exactly the same, except now you actually have a chance at qualifying for and getting healthcare.

/and I'm supposed to be upset about this, why again?


Because it's not the much simpler and less confusing single-payer method which would undoubtedly provide cheaper better care as has been proven in most of Europe.
 
2013-07-15 03:29:26 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: This is not the CHANGE that we HOPED for.


Sooooo.. let's go felate some CEOs?

Isn't that the political answer for everything right now?
 
2013-07-15 03:29:28 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: SilentStrider: Weaver95: The My Little Pony Killer: Actually, Obamacare will keep your working situation exactly the same, except now you actually have a chance at qualifying for and getting healthcare.

/and I'm supposed to be upset about this, why again?

Because obamacare will end all life in the universe and bring about the end times.

If the end times means I get to watch St. Peter laugh in a Republican's face when they ask to get into heaven, then bring 'em on.

I think it means they all get raptured, and we get some peace and quiet here on earth.


One can only hope.
 
2013-07-15 03:33:34 PM  

hasty ambush: xanadian: Well, Obamacare is the bastard son of what the Heritage Foundation once dreamed up...

I did not realize that Obama and the Democrats were tools of the Heritage Foundation. If only Obama would have disclosed this before election time it might have changed the way you voted.

Government sizes control of 10% of the economy and people, for some stupid reason, expect good things to happen. Obamacare was not about providing healthcare to the uninsured (there are plenty of easier, less costly ways of doing that). It was about expanding the power of the Federal government.


Name them, then tell us why the GOP and teabaggers would support them.
 
2013-07-15 03:34:16 PM  

SlothB77: vpb: So, the strategy of using part time workers that has been going on for decades is Obama's fault then?  That guy is amazing.

[www.strangecosmos.com image 450x385]

Before Obamacare: Company A hired full-time workers.
After Obamacare: health care costs go up and Those at the top see an excuse to raise their yearly bonus. Company A decides to change their workers to part-time as a result.

Definitely could be because of Obamacare.


FTFY
 
2013-07-15 03:34:21 PM  

Mikey1969: But now, unions are waking up to the fact that Obamacare is heavily disruptive to the health benefits of their members.

Well, I'm not a part of a union, but my wife's insurance open enrollment just ended, meaning that the new insurance plan rates went into effect. As a result:

1. I got a $25 check for an out of pocket co-pay at some point.
2. My Chiro comped me, and told me that I had 6 more free visits coming because the insurance rebated a lot of money to him.
3. My 'scripts that cost $3 each(Still a great price) cost $4.17 to fill THREE. One was as low as 72 cents.

I just for the life of me can't figure out what happened in the last year to cause me to get all of these benefits. The insurance increase also wasn't wny more than normal.

/Weird, isn't it? I was supposed to be selling organs just to cover a medical copay at this point, according to the Right.


It is infuriating that insurance companies or the government pays for Chiropractors.
 
2013-07-15 03:35:03 PM  

d23: tenpoundsofcheese: This is not the CHANGE that we HOPED for.

Sooooo.. let's go felate some CEOs?

Isn't that the political answer for everything right now?


depends if you prefer to have a job or be spied on by the NSA.
 
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