Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NewsBusters)   Zimmerman's lawyer: Hey I thought he was guilty and believed everything the media said before I became his lawyer, then I saw the facts, presented it in court and won. Not my fault Americans are a factless lynch mob   (newsbusters.org ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Mark O'Mara, Benjamin Crump, Alan Dershowitz, guilty  
•       •       •

2828 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jul 2013 at 1:38 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



442 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-15 05:36:07 PM  

Elegy: So you are OK with talking about Zimmerman's past, but not about Martin's? You want to avoid the fact that Martin's text messages revealed he was interested in fighting, that he had been in several fights, and that his younger brother asked Martin to teach him to fight.


Martin wasn't on trial.  You folks have conflated victims here.
 
2013-07-15 05:36:27 PM  
Well, let's see. The first attempted lynching of George Zimmerman failed.  Through due course of law, George Zimmerman was found not guilty of all charges.  Another word for not guilty is "innocent."  HE WAS INNOCENT, and judged to be so by a jury of his peers, despite the gross untruths that were initially held forth by black racists and con artists who were all in for a MONEY GRAB.

Now the NAACP, so very unhappy that the rope broke on the first go-around at an unjust vigilante hanging effort by Ben Crump, Al Sharpton, NBC, MSNBC, and all the other players in the ABSOLUTELY FALSE INITIAL NARRATIVE of this encounter, now DOUBLES DOWN, TOTALLY REVERSES WHO IS LYNCHING WHO, and generally shows its NAACP BUTTHOLE.  THANKS, NAACP.  WAY TO RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW, GUYS.  GOOD JERB!!
 
2013-07-15 05:36:49 PM  

Munchausen's Proxy: gimmegimme: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Would it also be unwise to pound a strangers head into the sidewalk?

If Zimmerman's boo-boos came from "pounding," then he must have been wrestling with a Muppet.  And remember...Zimmerman contends he was hit "dozens" of times.

Here's hoping Zimmy starts looking for the "REAL" assaulter:

[col.stb.s-msn.com image 300x300]

So you admit that he was pounded, and his injuries provide the physical evidence.  Now that we have agreed on that, let us move to some other point.


All we know is that Zimmerman followed Martin for several minutes, that Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman doing a little bit of damage but not enough to warrant a trip to the emergency room, and that Zimmerman shot Martin dead. Considering that Martin was a minor and doing nothing wrong at the start of the confrontation, and Zimmerman the one in a position of responsibility and authority, it's Zimmerman's fault that this happened. Zimmerman escalated the confrontation more than once instead of defusing it by either walking away and letting the cops do their jobs or by telling Martin (when he asked why he was being followed) that Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch. Multiple times Zimmerman could have walked away or ignored the kid who'd done nothing wrong, and no crime would have been committed (either by Martin or Zimmerman) and no kid would have ended up dead.
 
2013-07-15 05:37:38 PM  

Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Would it also be unwise to pound a strangers head into the sidewalk?

I'm talking about what we KNOW happened.  Not what Zimmerman and the simpletons who take up his narrative argue did happen.

Since Zimmerman never had to face anyone confronting his narrative in court I'm not particularly interested in any argument that begins by accepting what Zimmerman says happened at face value.

What we KNOW is what other witnesses testified to in open court - are they lying?  We also KNOW what he told to the police and was corroborated by physical evidence that GZ had no prior knowledge.  The investigating officer also testified to this in open court.  Was he also lying?  I would like to know what special evidence you have that was not presented.


Who witnessed the altercation as it was taking place again?
 
2013-07-15 05:38:31 PM  

lantawa: Well, let's see. The first attempted lynching of George Zimmerman failed.  Through due course of law, George Zimmerman was found not guilty of all charges.  Another word for not guilty is "innocent."  HE WAS INNOCENT, and judged to be so by a jury of his peers, despite the gross untruths that were initially held forth by black racists and con artists who were all in for a MONEY GRAB.

Now the NAACP, so very unhappy that the rope broke on the first go-around at an unjust vigilante hanging effort by Ben Crump, Al Sharpton, NBC, MSNBC, and all the other players in the ABSOLUTELY FALSE INITIAL NARRATIVE of this encounter, now DOUBLES DOWN, TOTALLY REVERSES WHO IS LYNCHING WHO, and generally shows its NAACP BUTTHOLE.  THANKS, NAACP.  WAY TO RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW, GUYS.  GOOD JERB!!


Where did you get your GED in Law?  "Not guilty" does not equal "innocent."  That's why the forewoman didn't say "innocent."

Ask O.J. about the difference.  Has he paid the $30 million penalty from the civil case yet?
 
2013-07-15 05:39:05 PM  

Elegy: The officer was an undercover officer who did not identify himself as an officer to Zimmerman.


How ironic.

Elegy: Really? It's ok to talk about Zimmerman's past, but not Martin's?


"You shouldn't have worn that dress."
 
2013-07-15 05:39:45 PM  

Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Would it also be unwise to pound a strangers head into the sidewalk?

I'm talking about what we KNOW happened.  Not what Zimmerman and the simpletons who take up his narrative argue did happen.

Since Zimmerman never had to face anyone confronting his narrative in court I'm not particularly interested in any argument that begins by accepting what Zimmerman says happened at face value.

What we KNOW is what other witnesses testified to in open court - are they lying?  We also KNOW what he told to the police and was corroborated by physical evidence that GZ had no prior knowledge.  The investigating officer also testified to this in open court.  Was he also lying?  I would like to know what special evidence you have that was not presented.

Who witnessed the altercation as it was taking place again?


One of the early prosecution witnesses.  I believe his name was Good
 
2013-07-15 05:40:00 PM  

gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?


Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.
 
2013-07-15 05:40:03 PM  

Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Would it also be unwise to pound a strangers head into the sidewalk?

I'm talking about what we KNOW happened.  Not what Zimmerman and the simpletons who take up his narrative argue did happen.

Since Zimmerman never had to face anyone confronting his narrative in court I'm not particularly interested in any argument that begins by accepting what Zimmerman says happened at face value.

What we KNOW is what other witnesses testified to in open court - are they lying?  We also KNOW what he told to the police and was corroborated by physical evidence that GZ had no prior knowledge.  The investigating officer also testified to this in open court.  Was he also lying?  I would like to know what special evidence you have that was not presented.

Who witnessed the altercation as it was taking place again?


As we all know, the only two people who know who threw the first punch are George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, and since we can't cast Speak With Dead...
 
2013-07-15 05:40:41 PM  

Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.


Right!? It's not like his actions led directly to the death of a child.
 
2013-07-15 05:41:54 PM  

gimmegimme: [fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net image 500x653]

Anyone get BINGO yet?


Bingo card is as disingenuous and hammer-headedly dogmatic as are you. Better give the clownfart penis that created that card my feedback, so that he/she can add my square.
 
2013-07-15 05:42:32 PM  

Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.


Opinions are like buttholes; we all have one.

Well...not Trayvon Martin.
 
2013-07-15 05:44:19 PM  

gimmegimme: lantawa: Well, let's see. The first attempted lynching of George Zimmerman failed.  Through due course of law, George Zimmerman was found not guilty of all charges.  Another word for not guilty is "innocent."  HE WAS INNOCENT, and judged to be so by a jury of his peers, despite the gross untruths that were initially held forth by black racists and con artists who were all in for a MONEY GRAB.

Now the NAACP, so very unhappy that the rope broke on the first go-around at an unjust vigilante hanging effort by Ben Crump, Al Sharpton, NBC, MSNBC, and all the other players in the ABSOLUTELY FALSE INITIAL NARRATIVE of this encounter, now DOUBLES DOWN, TOTALLY REVERSES WHO IS LYNCHING WHO, and generally shows its NAACP BUTTHOLE.  THANKS, NAACP.  WAY TO RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW, GUYS.  GOOD JERB!!

Where did you get your GED in Law?  "Not guilty" does not equal "innocent."  That's why the forewoman didn't say "innocent."

Ask O.J. about the difference.  Has he paid the $30 million penalty from the civil case yet?


I'm not worried about your technicalities. OJ was neither not guilty nor innocent.  George Zimmerman is both not guilty and innocent.  That's, like, my opinion, dude.....
 
2013-07-15 05:46:45 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

Right!? It's not like his actions led directly to the death of a child.


Martin's actions led to his death. You admitted as much when you said his unrelenting attack against Zimmerman was unjustified.

Do try to keep up.
 
2013-07-15 05:46:50 PM  

ShadowKamui: Glad to see 1 + 1 == 3 when its convenient for you.


What is this I don't even...
 
2013-07-15 05:48:06 PM  

Munchausen's Proxy: One of the early prosecution witnesses. I believe his name was Good


BZZT!  WRONG!  I'm sorry, the correct answer was...

Mike Chewbacca: As we all know, the only two people who know who threw the first punch are George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, and since we can't cast Speak With Dead...


But thanks for playing and grab a consolation prize on the way out.
 
2013-07-15 05:50:04 PM  

Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Glad to see 1 + 1 == 3 when its convenient for you.

What is this I don't even...


That's because you lack the ability to understand facts, logic or reality
 
2013-07-15 05:50:58 PM  

ShadowKamui: Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Glad to see 1 + 1 == 3 when its convenient for you.

What is this I don't even...

That's because you lack the ability to understand facts, logic or reality


No, it's because I don't understand gibberish.
 
2013-07-15 05:51:05 PM  

Elegy: Mike Chewbacca: Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

Right!? It's not like his actions led directly to the death of a child.

Martin's actions led to his death. You admitted as much when you said his unrelenting attack against Zimmerman was unjustified.

Do try to keep up.


Zimmerman's actions led to the confrontation.

Try to keep up.
 
2013-07-15 05:51:09 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio:

Speculation is not evidence.

It is when it indicates that Martin viciously attacked poor helpless Zimmerman.

You are mistaken. That Mr. Martin attacked Mr. Zimmerman is evidenced by Mr. Zimmerman's injuries and by testimony of a witness who observed the attack.

It would be impossible for Zimmerman to have injuries if he had attacked Martin, and Martin defended himself? Did the witness see who struck first? Did he see every moment of the encounter?

Absent evidence of a physical attack upon Mr. Martin, no valid reason exists to assume that Mr. Zimmerman initiated the physical attack.

As I said, speculation is evidence when it shows what YOU want it to show.

Physical evidence and witness testimony support the claim that Mr. Martin physically struck Mr. Zimmerman.

I am aware of neither physical evidence nor witness testimony supporting a claim that Mr. Zimmerman attacked Mr. Martin beforehand.

And there is neither physical evidence nor witness testimony that supports a claim that Martin initiated the physical confrontation.


Evidence supports a claim of an attack by Mr. Martin on Mr. Zimmerman. No evidence supports a claim of an attack by Mr. Zimmerman upon Mr. Martin until after Mr. Zimmerman was himself under attack. As such, concluding that Mr. Martin initiated the attack is reasonable, until and unless further evidence indicates otherwise.
 
2013-07-15 05:51:41 PM  

Elegy: Mike Chewbacca: Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

Right!? It's not like his actions led directly to the death of a child.

Martin's actions led to his death. You admitted as much when you said his unrelenting attack against Zimmerman was unjustified.

Do try to keep up.


I'm actually not convinced that Martin's relentless attack (which didn't cause Zimmerman to be hospitalized or even taken to the emergency room) against Zimmerman wasn't justified or perfectly understandable under the circumstances. It's not like Martin hadn't run away from Zimmerman twice. It's not like Martin could just run home and tell his dad what was going on. And Zimmerman admitted Martin saw his gun, which means that it's very, very likely Martin was afraid for his life.

It's amazing that people like you cannot possibly accept the fact that a kid was scared shiatless by a 28-year-old man who was apparenlty stalking him, but that an armed 28-year-old guy is totally justified in being scared shiatless of a 17-year-old kid.
 
2013-07-15 05:52:25 PM  

gimmegimme: Elegy: Mike Chewbacca: Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

Right!? It's not like his actions led directly to the death of a child.

Martin's actions led to his death. You admitted as much when you said his unrelenting attack against Zimmerman was unjustified.

Do try to keep up.

Zimmerman's actions led to the confrontation.

Try to keep up.


No. No they didn't. Do try to keep up..
 
2013-07-15 05:53:07 PM  

Zerochance: Zimmerman made 46 calls to 911 to report "suspicious activity", mainly by black males


The stupid.  It hurts.
When you have a narrative to push, there's just no stopping any logical though from getting in the way, now is there?

Mike Chewbacca: You lose him and he finds you


Testimony or fact to back up this assertion?

Mike Chewbacca: that Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman doing a little bit of damage but not enough to warrant a trip to the emergency room


Im guessing you missed the day of testimony where the police suggested that GZ go to the ER, but that he would have to pay for it out of his own pocket and thats why he didn't go.

Its ok, i wouldn't want any facts to get in the way of a wildly formed and completely out of left field opinion that has nothing to do about the case.
 
2013-07-15 05:53:54 PM  

Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio: Philip Francis Queeg: Dimensio:

Speculation is not evidence.

It is when it indicates that Martin viciously attacked poor helpless Zimmerman.

You are mistaken. That Mr. Martin attacked Mr. Zimmerman is evidenced by Mr. Zimmerman's injuries and by testimony of a witness who observed the attack.

It would be impossible for Zimmerman to have injuries if he had attacked Martin, and Martin defended himself? Did the witness see who struck first? Did he see every moment of the encounter?

Absent evidence of a physical attack upon Mr. Martin, no valid reason exists to assume that Mr. Zimmerman initiated the physical attack.

As I said, speculation is evidence when it shows what YOU want it to show.

Physical evidence and witness testimony support the claim that Mr. Martin physically struck Mr. Zimmerman.

I am aware of neither physical evidence nor witness testimony supporting a claim that Mr. Zimmerman attacked Mr. Martin beforehand.

And there is neither physical evidence nor witness testimony that supports a claim that Martin initiated the physical confrontation.

Evidence supports a claim of an attack by Mr. Martin on Mr. Zimmerman. No evidence supports a claim of an attack by Mr. Zimmerman upon Mr. Martin until after Mr. Zimmerman was himself under attack. As such, concluding that Mr. Martin initiated the attack is reasonable, until and unless further evidence indicates otherwise.


No, evidence shows that at the time of shooting, Martin was on top of Zimmerman. There is no evidence regarding who started it.

Again, totally reasonable for a grown guy with martial arts training should be scared shiatless of a black teenager who'd broken no laws.
Totally unreasonable for a teenager whose parents aren't at home to be scared of a guy who's following him and won't say why.
 
2013-07-15 05:57:33 PM  

Munchausen's Proxy: Dimensio: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: You are mistaken. That Mr. Martin attacked Mr. Zimmerman is evidenced by Mr. Zimmerman's injuries and by testimony of a witness who observed the attack.

Nobody witnessed the attack.  A neighbor saw somebody on top of somebody else and by clothing it appeared to be Martin.

What's galling about this whole debate is the pure, confident certainty with which Zimmerman apologists argue what happened that night.  Coupled with the absurdly ridiculous approach of pretending the whole incident magically began when these two guys grappled without considering anything that led to that point and you guys are arguing, at best, a fantasy narrative wholly influenced by a guy trying to beat a murder charge and his lawyers.

None of us personally knew either guy.  We can't speak with any authority to whether Martin was a "thug" or Zimmerman was a "racist."  On the other hand any attempt to lionize either man is insane.  I would argue this is especially in the case of Zimmerman who made some bad choices that wound up costing somebody else his life.  He's certainly not any kind of hero.

I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal. I assert only that no evidence implicates Mr. Zimmerman in any criminal act prior to his physical altercation with Mr. Martin, and that no evidence indicates that Mr. Martin's physical attack against Mr. Zimmerman was justified. I have requested, from numerous individuals who claim that Mr. Martin's attack was self-defense, a description of the behaviour of Mr. Zimmerman that would have justified the use of force against him, but thus far I have received only admitted speculation in response.

So you are going with "he immersed himself in the African American community for show"  The delusion is so incredibly strong in you it must hurt just to walk upright.


No possible rational nor honest interpretation of my statement could allow for such a conclusion.
 
2013-07-15 05:58:06 PM  

o5iiawah: Testimony or fact to back up this assertion?


She said that Martin told her that a man was watching him from his vehicle while talking on the phone before the man started following Martin.  Martin told his friend at one point that he had lost the man but the man suddenly appeared again. The friend, originally known only as "Witness 8", said that she told Martin to run to the townhouse where he was staying with his father and the father's girlfriend.  She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?"  She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead.  She immediately attempted to call him back, but was unable to reach him.

o5iiawah: Im guessing you missed the day of testimony where the police suggested that GZ go to the ER, but that he would have to pay for it out of his own pocket and thats why he didn't go.

Its ok, i wouldn't want any facts to get in the way of a wildly formed and completely out of left field opinion that has nothing to do about the case.


That doesn't support your claim. When someone is farked up, they go to the hospital regardless of the cost. If he could wait a few days, then he wasn't in real danger.
 
2013-07-15 05:58:40 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Again, totally reasonable for a grown guy with martial arts training should be scared shiatless of a black teenager who'd broken no laws.


what does Martin's race have to do with anything?
Please do yourself a favor and actually read or watch a few hours of testimony.  Then come back to the thread when you dont sound like a complete moron.
 
2013-07-15 05:59:09 PM  

Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Glad to see 1 + 1 == 3 when its convenient for you.

What is this I don't even...

That's because you lack the ability to understand facts, logic or reality

No, it's because I don't understand gibberish.


Mr Good witness somebody screaming for help and getting ground pounded

Zimmerman has injuries to his face and back of his head consistent w/ such an attack and grass stains on his back; while Martin had none of those
 So who was the one getting beat down w/ suffering head injuries and screaming for help....
 
2013-07-15 06:00:44 PM  

o5iiawah: Mike Chewbacca: Again, totally reasonable for a grown guy with martial arts training should be scared shiatless of a black teenager who'd broken no laws.

what does Martin's race have to do with anything?
Please do yourself a favor and actually read or watch a few hours of testimony.  Then come back to the thread when you dont sound like a complete moron.


Fine. Exclude "black." My point still stands. People like you think it's totally reasonable for George Zimmerman to have been scared shiatless by a teenager walking through his neighborhood, but it's NOT reasonable for a teenager to be scared shiatless by a guy following him for several minutes, chasing him down twice, and knowing that there are no grownups at your house you can turn to for help.
 
2013-07-15 06:03:15 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Fine. Exclude "black." My point still stands. People like you think it's totally reasonable for George Zimmerman to have been scared shiatless by a teenager walking through his neighborhood, but it's NOT reasonable for a teenager to be scared shiatless by a guy following him for several minutes, chasing him down twice, and knowing that there are no grownups at your house you can turn to for help.


Scared shiatless?  The guy got away and instead of calling the police to report a strange vehicle following him, he decided to jump the guy.  There are no good guys here, but no murderers either.  Just a couple of morons.
 
2013-07-15 06:03:18 PM  

Fart_Machine: Bartman66: Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Mike Chewbacca: Bartman66: Mike Chewbacca: Bartman66: king_nacho: antidisestablishmentarianism: Guilty or not if he would have stayed in his car this whole thing would have never happened.

You haven't got a clue what would have happened. If Martin hadn't punched him in the face, this wouldn't have happened either.

EXACTLY .. Gee.. which one of those two things are legal? getting out of your car (even if ASKED not told if you do that is  illegal and you can go to jail) and following someone or assalting someone (even if he was some crazy cracker as his girlfriend testified he said) ??
I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon would of just said My parents live right over there and I am just going home instead of trying attacking him and trying to bash his head into the concrete?? Just curious?

Why should Trayvon Martin have to tell a stranger where he lives to justify his presence in that neighborhood? Was he committing a crime by being there? No. We don't live in a "papers, please" nation quite yet. You think it is perfectly appropriate for Trayvon Martin to prove that he deserved be in his own neighborhood, yet you are incredibly offended by the idea that George Zimmerman's bad decision-making skills cost a young man his life.

So again... so instead of telling him he lived there instead attack the guy?? really? is this your argument?

If a creepy guy is following 17-year-old you around, would you do the sensible thing, or would you freak out and assume the worst? The issue is that George Zimmerman was the adult, and the person in a position of authority and responsibility. He failed at the most basic job duty (keeping his neighborhood safe) and escalated a non-situation into one of violence and death. I have a hard time blaming a teenager for being a dumb teenager because we all know teenagers are dumb. That's why we don't let them vote, or drink, or buy smokes, or join the military (without pa ...


again.. the jury heard more than either of us and saw all of the evidence. and maid the correct LEGAL decision. Over and done.
 
2013-07-15 06:03:37 PM  

Dimensio:  As such, concluding that Mr. Martin initiated the attack is reasonable, until and unless further evidence indicates otherwise.


As I said, speculation is evidence if it helps you justify the shooting.
 
2013-07-15 06:05:37 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: o5iiawah: Mike Chewbacca: Again, totally reasonable for a grown guy with martial arts training should be scared shiatless of a black teenager who'd broken no laws.

what does Martin's race have to do with anything?
Please do yourself a favor and actually read or watch a few hours of testimony.  Then come back to the thread when you dont sound like a complete moron.

Fine. Exclude "black." My point still stands. People like you think it's totally reasonable for George Zimmerman to have been scared shiatless by a teenager walking through his neighborhood, but it's NOT reasonable for a teenager to be scared shiatless by a guy following him for several minutes, chasing him down twice, and knowing that there are no grownups at your house you can turn to for help.


You keep returning to this point

Let me rephrase it for you, again. I doubt you will get it, again, but I will try, again:

People think it is reasonable for Zimmerman to be scared of a teenager who is straddling him and raining down blows, and who shows no intention of stopping, despite the fact that Zimmerman was screaming for help, and despite the fact that a bystander tells said teenager to stop and that he is calling the police.
 
2013-07-15 06:06:15 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?"


Ah-Ha!  The smoking gun.  its clearly illegal/threatening to ask someone this.

So the testimony of Jeanteal (sic?) says that the two exchange words and then there's an audible scuffle. Neither utter threatening words and you cant tell from her testimony who initiated the scuffle yet the next people to see the two say that it is Martin on top of Zimmerman.

You're convinced though that Zimmerman started, just because.  Good luck with that.

Mike Chewbacca: That doesn't support your claim. When someone is farked up, they go to the hospital regardless of the cost. If he could wait a few days, then he wasn't in real danger


Oh, well as long as you say that it must be true.  Cant be that someone who cant afford health insurance or who thinks they feel ok skips out on the hospital.  Whether or not he went is a moot point.  What i said was that the police clearly suggested that he go to the hospital which destroys your point that his injuries were small and insignificant.
 
2013-07-15 06:06:40 PM  

Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: One of the early prosecution witnesses. I believe his name was Good

BZZT!  WRONG!  I'm sorry, the correct answer was...

Yeah, not so much


Two witnesses called by the prosecution today described George Zimmerman as being on the losing end of a fight with Trayvon Martin in the moments before Zimmerman shot the Florida teenager   from http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesse s /story?id=19517236#.UeRw621EOSo

Look, I get it.  You want there to be evidence of racism EVERYWHERE and when there is none, you make it up as you go.  I am sure that there are race-based killings on a daily basis somewhere in this country.  This was just not one of them.  By all accounts - not just Zimmerman's, he was a decent, but someone suspicious guy that wanted to be a police officer. He was from a mixed-ethnic family and apparently - according to actual evidence - active in the African American community.

Like I said, it was a tragedy, but there was no racial overtones or animus and all actual evidence indicates that the events happened as GZ said that they did.  It would appear that you have prejudged him before getting all the information.
 
2013-07-15 06:07:25 PM  

gimmegimme: Bartman66: gimmegimme: Bartman66: A few scratches on the back of his head? according to?? Your expert knowledge as a juror that was in there listening and privy to seeing all of the information? or just the internet guy saying.. "Man.. it was just a few scratches and that isn't assault!" .. well actually... that is EXACTLY what assault is. You know... slamming someone's head on the concrete. But you're arguing that it wasn't hard enough and only had some blood and swelling (according to the pics allot of both) and the nose that was out shape from the punches (as shown in a pic had parts sticking out and the EMT pushed it back into place) really wasn't that bad and is not assault either.

OK... unfortunately you were not on the jury and others, who obviously understood what assault is and what self defense is, were there.

Yeah, those boo-boos were pretty ouchie.  I heard they needed two EMTs to kiss them.

Again you just either don't or refuse to see it. It is the fact that they were bad enough (in your mind) that  doesn't matter. If he felt (not you) that his life ws in danger by .. you know... getting his head rammed into the sidewalk and getting punched, he was justified in protecting himself with deadly force.
Hopefully young men and yes 17 is a young MAN not boy, will think twice before attacking someone.

I'm not even talking about the justification for the shooting.  I'm saying that his boo-boos were not too ouchie.  Compare Zimmerman's boo-boos to an MMA fight and the time it takes for an MMA fighter to have someone kiss it make it feel better.


That makes no sense and has no bearing on this case.
I am sorry that in your court of "emotional" facts this case was decided wrong. But in the case of "actual" facts and "real evidence" it was pretty shut and dry and that is why it only took a day or so to decide it.
 
2013-07-15 06:09:23 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: What_Would_Jimi_Do: Mike Chewbacca: his own neighborhood

it wasn't his neighborhood

It was his dad's fiance's neighborhood. He had every right to be there. You know that, you're just splitting hairs.


i had to run a few places, i am not splitting hairs. i didn't say anything about TM having a right to be there. if had been his OWN neighborhood, he would have be known.
 
2013-07-15 06:09:47 PM  

Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: One of the early prosecution witnesses. I believe his name was Good

BZZT!  WRONG!  I'm sorry, the correct answer was...

Yeah, not so much

Two witnesses called by the prosecution today described George Zimmerman as being on the losing end of a fight with Trayvon Martin in the moments before Zimmerman shot the Florida teenager   from http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesse s /story?id=19517236#.UeRw621EOSo

Look, I get it.  You want there to be evidence of racism EVERYWHERE and when there is none, you make it up as you go.  I am sure that there are race-based killings on a daily basis somewhere in this country.  This was just not one of them.  By all accounts - not just Zimmerman's, he was a decent, but someone suspicious guy that wanted to be a police officer. He was from a mixed-ethnic family and apparently - according to actual evidence - active in the African American community.

Like I said, it was a tragedy, but there was no racial overtones or animus and all actual evidence indicates that the events happened as GZ said that they did.  It would appear that you have prejudged him before getting all the information.


Actually, it's that we don't think that a grownup who is in a position of authority and responsibility should get away scot-free when a kid ends up dead by his hand. The part where racism comes into this is 1) Zimmerman never would have followed Martin if he hadn't been black; and 2) the cops didn't even really investigate the situation, they just declared Zimmerman was justified in shooting a kid after a few hours of interviewing Zimmerman (and only Zimmerman) and without properly securing the crime scene.
 
2013-07-15 06:11:11 PM  

Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?


Had Mr. Zimmerman's unwise behaviour resulted directly in the death of Mr. Martin through no intentional choice of Mr. Martin's own, I would assert that Mr. Zimmerman was criminally responsible for the death. However, all evidence indicates that Mr. Martin's death was a consequence of Mr. Martin's own unjustified use of force against Mr. Zimmerman.

Had Mr. Martin fled from Mr. Zimmerman and been struck and killed by a passing motor vehicle, I could understand assigning responsibility to Mr. Zimmerman by way of manslaughter charges. However, by engaging in an illegal act of violence against Mr. Zimmerman, Mr. Martin bears responsibility for the consequences that followed.
 
2013-07-15 06:11:41 PM  

What_Would_Jimi_Do: Mike Chewbacca: What_Would_Jimi_Do: Mike Chewbacca: his own neighborhood

it wasn't his neighborhood

It was his dad's fiance's neighborhood. He had every right to be there. You know that, you're just splitting hairs.

i had to run a few places, i am not splitting hairs. i didn't say anything about TM having a right to be there. if had been his OWN neighborhood, he would have be known.


Sure, uh huh. Despite the fact that Martin had been there several times, and had been there for *checks wikipedia* a whole week already prior to the shooting. Do YOU know everyone in your neighborhood? I sure don't. And *shudder* some of them are even black males!!!
 
2013-07-15 06:14:01 PM  

Dimensio: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Had Mr. Zimmerman's unwise behaviour resulted directly in the death of Mr. Martin through no intentional choice of Mr. Martin's own, I would assert that Mr. Zimmerman was criminally responsible for the death. However, all evidence indicates that Mr. Martin's death was a consequence of Mr. Martin's own unjustified use of force against Mr. Zimmerman.

Had Mr. Martin fled from Mr. Zimmerman and been struck and killed by a passing motor vehicle, I could understand assigning responsibility to Mr. Zimmerman by way of manslaughter charges. However, by engaging in an illegal act of violence against Mr. Zimmerman, Mr. Martin bears responsibility for the consequences that followed.


He fled from Zimmerman twice, and Zimmerman pursued twice. He asked him flat out why he was being followed, and Zimmerman did NOT say he was the neighborhood watch. His parents weren't home. Gee, I can't imagine why Martin might have attacked Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-15 06:14:10 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Bartman66: gimmegimme: Bartman66: A few scratches on the back of his head? according to?? Your expert knowledge as a juror that was in there listening and privy to seeing all of the information? or just the internet guy saying.. "Man.. it was just a few scratches and that isn't assault!" .. well actually... that is EXACTLY what assault is. You know... slamming someone's head on the concrete. But you're arguing that it wasn't hard enough and only had some blood and swelling (according to the pics allot of both) and the nose that was out shape from the punches (as shown in a pic had parts sticking out and the EMT pushed it back into place) really wasn't that bad and is not assault either.

OK... unfortunately you were not on the jury and others, who obviously understood what assault is and what self defense is, were there.

Yeah, those boo-boos were pretty ouchie.  I heard they needed two EMTs to kiss them.

Again you just either don't or refuse to see it. It is the fact that they were bad enough (in your mind) that  doesn't matter. If he felt (not you) that his life ws in danger by .. you know... getting his head rammed into the sidewalk and getting punched, he was justified in protecting himself with deadly force.
Hopefully young men and yes 17 is a young MAN not boy, will think twice before attacking someone.

And if Martin, NOT YOU, felt that Zimmerman was putting his life in danger what was he justified in doing?


Mr. Martin was justified in attacking Mr. Zimmerman only if Mr. Zimmerman's actions created a belief evident to a reasonable person that Mr. Martin was in imminent danger of grievous bodily injury or death.
 
2013-07-15 06:14:38 PM  

ShadowKamui: Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Fart_Machine: ShadowKamui: Glad to see 1 + 1 == 3 when its convenient for you.

What is this I don't even...

That's because you lack the ability to understand facts, logic or reality

No, it's because I don't understand gibberish.

Mr Good witness somebody screaming for help and getting ground pounded

Zimmerman has injuries to his face and back of his head consistent w/ such an attack and grass stains on his back; while Martin had none of those
 So who was the one getting beat down w/ suffering head injuries and screaming for help....


Good witnessed a scuffle but wouldn't testify that Martin "pounded his head against the ground".  Zimmerman's injuries were very minor and scuffling around on the ground will result in grass stains and scratches.  The witness stated it was very dark and he only watched for 8-10 seconds.  There really wasn't a whole lot of evidence in this case and that's why it went in favor of the Defendant.   I'm sorry these facts, logic, and reality are causing you difficulty.
 
2013-07-15 06:14:46 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Fine. Exclude "black." My point still stands. People like you think it's totally reasonable for George Zimmerman to have been scared shiatless by a teenager walking through his neighborhood, but it's NOT reasonable for a teenager to be scared shiatless by a guy following him for several minutes, chasing him down twice, and knowing that there are no grownups at your house you can turn to for help.


Actually, according to the testimony of the witness you just cited, the pair exchanged non-threatening words, a scuffle  ensued and the next witnesses reported TM on top of GZ.

But please pretend you know what happened.
 
2013-07-15 06:16:04 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: El Pachuco: Mike Chewbacca: We don't know who threw the first punch.

There is no evidence whatsoever that indicates that GZ punched TM at any point.

It's pretty convenient.


You are correct; the entire absence of any injury to Mr. Martin consistent with being struck by Mr. Zimmerman's fist is extremely convenient, as it establishes substantial doubt to the baseless speculation that Mr. Zimmerman struck Mr. Martin at any time.
 
2013-07-15 06:18:00 PM  

gimmegimme: Elegy: Mike Chewbacca: Elegy: gimmegimme: Anyone get BINGO yet?

Clever, but why would anyome need to be an apologists for Zimmerman?

Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

Right!? It's not like his actions led directly to the death of a child.

Martin's actions led to his death. You admitted as much when you said his unrelenting attack against Zimmerman was unjustified.

Do try to keep up.

Zimmerman's actions led to the confrontation.

Try to keep up.


Unless Mr. Zimmerman's actions established a reasonable fear of imminent grievous bodily injury or death to Mr. Martin at the time that Mr. Martin struck Mr. Zimmerman, then Mr. Martin's attack against Mr. Zimmerman was not justified.
 
2013-07-15 06:18:06 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Dimensio: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Had Mr. Zimmerman's unwise behaviour resulted directly in the death of Mr. Martin through no intentional choice of Mr. Martin's own, I would assert that Mr. Zimmerman was criminally responsible for the death. However, all evidence indicates that Mr. Martin's death was a consequence of Mr. Martin's own unjustified use of force against Mr. Zimmerman.

Had Mr. Martin fled from Mr. Zimmerman and been struck and killed by a passing motor vehicle, I could understand assigning responsibility to Mr. Zimmerman by way of manslaughter charges. However, by engaging in an illegal act of violence against Mr. Zimmerman, Mr. Martin bears responsibility for the consequences that followed.

He fled from Zimmerman twice, and Zimmerman pursued twice. He asked him flat out why he was being followed, and Zimmerman did NOT say he was the neighborhood watch. His parents weren't home. Gee, I can't imagine why Martin might have attacked Zimmerman.


Why not call the police instead?  The dispatcher could've straightened out the entire situation.

Everybody's looking for the "victim".  There are no victims.
 
2013-07-15 06:19:40 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Dimensio: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Had Mr. Zimmerman's unwise behaviour resulted directly in the death of Mr. Martin through no intentional choice of Mr. Martin's own, I would assert that Mr. Zimmerman was criminally responsible for the death. However, all evidence indicates that Mr. Martin's death was a consequence of Mr. Martin's own unjustified use of force against Mr. Zimmerman.

Had Mr. Martin fled from Mr. Zimmerman and been struck and killed by a passing motor vehicle, I could understand assigning responsibility to Mr. Zimmerman by way of manslaughter charges. However, by engaging in an illegal act of violence against Mr. Zimmerman, Mr. Martin bears responsibility for the consequences that followed.

He fled from Zimmerman twice, and Zimmerman pursued twice. He asked him flat out why he was being followed, and Zimmerman did NOT say he was the neighborhood watch. His parents weren't home. Gee, I can't imagine why Martin might have attacked Zimmerman.


Please identify the specific action undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman at the time that Mr. Martin physically attacked him that legally justified the attack.
 
2013-07-15 06:19:59 PM  

catpuncher: Mike Chewbacca: Dimensio: Blathering Idjut: Dimensio: I have never asserted Mr. Zimmerman to be a hero. I recognize his behaviour prior to the altercation to be unwise, however a lack of wisdom is not itself criminal

Should a "lack of wisdom" that results in the death of someone else, whether intentional or not, be held to criminal penalties that are at least as serious as being caught littering?

Obviously it's not.  At least in Florida.  But should it be?

Had Mr. Zimmerman's unwise behaviour resulted directly in the death of Mr. Martin through no intentional choice of Mr. Martin's own, I would assert that Mr. Zimmerman was criminally responsible for the death. However, all evidence indicates that Mr. Martin's death was a consequence of Mr. Martin's own unjustified use of force against Mr. Zimmerman.

Had Mr. Martin fled from Mr. Zimmerman and been struck and killed by a passing motor vehicle, I could understand assigning responsibility to Mr. Zimmerman by way of manslaughter charges. However, by engaging in an illegal act of violence against Mr. Zimmerman, Mr. Martin bears responsibility for the consequences that followed.

He fled from Zimmerman twice, and Zimmerman pursued twice. He asked him flat out why he was being followed, and Zimmerman did NOT say he was the neighborhood watch. His parents weren't home. Gee, I can't imagine why Martin might have attacked Zimmerman.

Why not call the police instead?  The dispatcher could've straightened out the entire situation.

Everybody's looking for the "victim".  There are no victims.


The sysadmin fired by the prosecution is clearly a victim in this
 
2013-07-15 06:20:43 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Munchausen's Proxy: Blathering Idjut: Munchausen's Proxy: One of the early prosecution witnesses. I believe his name was Good

BZZT!  WRONG!  I'm sorry, the correct answer was...

Yeah, not so much

Two witnesses called by the prosecution today described George Zimmerman as being on the losing end of a fight with Trayvon Martin in the moments before Zimmerman shot the Florida teenager   from http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-beaten-prosecution-witnesse s /story?id=19517236#.UeRw621EOSo

Look, I get it.  You want there to be evidence of racism EVERYWHERE and when there is none, you make it up as you go.  I am sure that there are race-based killings on a daily basis somewhere in this country.  This was just not one of them.  By all accounts - not just Zimmerman's, he was a decent, but someone suspicious guy that wanted to be a police officer. He was from a mixed-ethnic family and apparently - according to actual evidence - active in the African American community.

Like I said, it was a tragedy, but there was no racial overtones or animus and all actual evidence indicates that the events happened as GZ said that they did.  It would appear that you have prejudged him before getting all the information.

Actually, it's that we don't think that a grownup who is in a position of authority and responsibility should get away scot-free when a kid ends up dead by his hand. The part where racism comes into this is 1) Zimmerman never would have followed Martin if he hadn't been black; and 2) the cops didn't even really investigate the situation, they just declared Zimmerman was justified in shooting a kid after a few hours of interviewing Zimmerman (and only Zimmerman) and without properly securing the crime scene.


Since the cops didn't investigate well enough, I'm sure glad all of those protests that motivate the additional year of investigation (including an investigation by the FBI), and a team of four prosecutors turned up all of that previously unknown evidence that was responsible for George Zimmerman's conviction.
 
Displayed 50 of 442 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report