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(NewsBusters)   Zimmerman's lawyer: Hey I thought he was guilty and believed everything the media said before I became his lawyer, then I saw the facts, presented it in court and won. Not my fault Americans are a factless lynch mob   (newsbusters.org ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Mark O'Mara, Benjamin Crump, Alan Dershowitz, guilty  
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2828 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jul 2013 at 1:38 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-15 02:05:47 PM  

TDBoedy: Amazing you're the 11ty billionth person to get it wrong.  If he had invoked stand your ground he'd have had a hearing to avoid trial.  He would have lost that hearing.  He was found not guilty because he used a self defense...defense.  In a civil trial he could face financial penalties regardless if he is found to have been negligent or what have you.  But stand-your-ground does not apply.  But we can all pretend it does right?  maybe it makes you feel more self righteous?


Nope.  That's only one part of the law.  Before it was passed you had to use every available means of escape before using deadly force.  Not you can "stand your ground".
 
2013-07-15 02:06:09 PM  
If someone starts a fight with me and I'm winning but end up getting shot in process, I hope my killer goes to jail.
 
2013-07-15 02:07:24 PM  

bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case.


Because it is politically advantageous for a variety of organizations for it to be so.
 
2013-07-15 02:07:56 PM  
If Trayvon Martin was this super-thug to Zimmerman's sissy-boy as the Zimmerman defenders portray, then why wasn't Zimmerman pounded flat? In real fights, where the one winning wants to do real harm to the other, the one getting the worst of it will be in no shape whatsoever to fight back as the one getting pounded will be unconscious. If Zimmerman's bullshiat account was true and Trayvon Martin was on top raining down blows, Zimmerman would not have been able to shoot Trayvon Martin.
 
2013-07-15 02:08:42 PM  

TDBoedy: Amazing you're the 11ty billionth person to get it wrong.  If he had invoked stand your ground he'd have had a hearing to avoid trial.  He would have lost that hearing.  He was found not guilty because he used a self defense...defense.  In a civil trial he could face financial penalties regardless if he is found to have been negligent or what have you.  But stand-your-ground does not apply.  But we can all pretend it does right?  maybe it makes you feel more self righteous?


Florida law shields anyone who is justified in the use of deadly force from civil punishment.  By being found not guilty, George Zimmerman was found to be justified in the use of deadly force. Therefore, he is protected under Florida law.

Sucks, don't it?
 
2013-07-15 02:10:01 PM  

Befuddled: If Trayvon Martin was this super-thug to Zimmerman's sissy-boy as the Zimmerman defenders portray, then why wasn't Zimmerman pounded flat? In real fights, where the one winning wants to do real harm to the other, the one getting the worst of it will be in no shape whatsoever to fight back as the one getting pounded will be unconscious. If Zimmerman's bullshiat account was true and Trayvon Martin was on top raining down blows, Zimmerman would not have been able to shoot Trayvon Martin.


I think the point is Zimmerman shot because he couldn't escape and before he was beaten senseless. Which, yet again, is textbook self-defense.

/can't believe i'm commenting in one of these stupid threads
 
2013-07-15 02:11:43 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Sadly, Zimmerman was not guilty of the charges.  The problem is the law in the state of Florida.  All those assholes who pushed for the stand your ground law to be enacted are have blood on their hands along with Zimmerman.  They made what he did legal.

This was a racist, wannabe cop vigilante with a short temper, a shiatty brain that makes horrible decisions and a chip on his shoulder.

Gun owners have a responsibility to be the cooler head, to go away from conflict and confrontation when they are carrying.  They are the ones with the responsibility to ONLY use the weapon in self-defense, and to NOT go looking for situations where they may be forced to defend themselves with it.

Zimmerman went looking for trouble, but according to the farked up Florida law, he did nothing illegal.

He is responsible for Martin's death, but not guilty of a crime.


It's almost as if you didn't even follow the trial.
 
2013-07-15 02:11:48 PM  

vpb: Before it was passed you had to use every available means of escape before using deadly force. Not you can "stand your ground".


Again, the defense did not argue that Martin had no obligation to flee (stand your ground). They argued straight self defense, based on the argument that Martin was being beaten, and had a reasonable fear of grievous harm or loss of life. This defense is in no way impacted by the presence or absence of "stand your ground" laws and is the same in every jurisdiction.
 
2013-07-15 02:11:49 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case.

Because it is politically advantageous for a variety of organizations for it to be so.


You hit THAT nail on the head!!! Al Sharpton would be a school janitor if it weren't for (at least perceived) racism.
 
2013-07-15 02:12:37 PM  

IlGreven: The ability to retreat without harm was available throughout the entire pre-fight confrontation, therefore, he had a duty to retreat before the fight started. Thus, he can't use deadly force. It's that simple.  No New York jury you could get would not convict Zimmerman for murder.


You don't have a duty to retreat *PRIOR TO THE PHYSICAL ALTERCATION ITSELF*.

Plus, according to George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin essentially sucker-punched him and then knocked him to the ground.

The prosecution provided *ZERO* evidence to dispute that.

Even if he had a duty to retreat, it was only if he could do it in complete safety to himself and others*, something the prosecution would have to prove.

And yes, New York juries do vote for self-defense.  A jury acquitted Bernie Goetz of everything but carrying a gun without a license.


*I'm assuming this means that if you could escape in complete safety to yourself, but it would require that someone else get hurt, say if your only safe escape involved running over innocent bystanders, then you have no duty to retreat
 
2013-07-15 02:13:14 PM  

Flappyhead: CtBORDER: Elegy: [i.imgur.com image 300x406]

Need more sparkles and wolves in the background with three moons.

And a waving flag.


I always miss one.
 
2013-07-15 02:14:20 PM  
I wasn't really sure what to think, until I saw that recent clip of Zimmerman on Hannity saying that he wouldn't have done anything differently, and that what happened was "all part of God's plan".

There's absolutely no remorse from him that this boy was slain. Not a single shred of doubt.

Pretty sure he followed and taunted Trayvon into a fight without telling him he was Neighborhood Watch or armed, and then shot him. He wanted at least one of the 'thugs' he perceived in his neighborhood to 'get the message', and got exactly what he wanted.

Everything he's said and done, whenever I hear him calmly talk about it, seems quite carefully said. (Sort of like what you guys just mentioned about him gaining that much weight before the trial to seem more easily the victim.) Zimmerman HIMSELF seems like a planner to me, not an idiot, and his 'plan' paid off in the form of a dead kid.

Which is exactly what he wanted from the very beginning, as far as I can tell.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-15 02:16:52 PM  

bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.


There are a lot of people who are angry about racial issues and this gives them the opportunity to express their anger.
 
2013-07-15 02:18:08 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Befuddled: It's kind of ironic that the safest place for Zimmerman now would be a state that doesn't allow concealed carry for any and all idiots that want it and doesn't have a "He's comin' right for us" "Stand yer ground" law.

Again, there was NO STAND YOUR GROUND defense in play here.

Keep repeating that to yourself and anyone else you meet until the urge to show everyone your ignorance passes.


Weird, I remember the jury instructions, and they were specifically informed that "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground"

I can't imagine how anyone could conclude that this case might have something to do with Stand Your Ground.

The relevant statue was actually 776.041

SYG is 776.012.  And it's part of the same chapter on justified use of force.  In fact, when 776.041 says:
"The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:..."
the preceding sections include 776.012.

This semantics game is ridiculous.  They weren't able to press charges initially because of SYG.  The Jury was instructed based on the SYG statute.  The statute ACTUALLY CITED in the defense cites SYG *itself*.
 
2013-07-15 02:18:48 PM  
What gets me the most is why Trayvon was over 200 miles from home at his fathers girlfriends house WHILE on suspension from high school.  If he was my son, he would be grounded and in bed by 11:00 PM or I would be calling child services for help dealing with an uncontrollable teen.

What happened was a tragedy.. but his parents let him down and should be hauled into court for their negligence.
 
2013-07-15 02:19:31 PM  
Have fun indoors Mr Zimmerman. You'll soon be paler than your supporters.
 
2013-07-15 02:21:30 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Philip Francis Queeg: dittybopper: AdolfOliverPanties: 

Did Treyvon Martin have the right to defended himself from an armed assailant?


TM threw the first sucker punch, assaulted GZ pinned him down & beat him. He was on offense dumbass.
 
2013-07-15 02:23:24 PM  

Befuddled: If Trayvon Martin was this super-thug to Zimmerman's sissy-boy as the Zimmerman defenders portray, then why wasn't Zimmerman pounded flat? In real fights, where the one winning wants to do real harm to the other, the one getting the worst of it will be in no shape whatsoever to fight back as the one getting pounded will be unconscious. If Zimmerman's bullshiat account was true and Trayvon Martin was on top raining down blows, Zimmerman would not have been able to shoot Trayvon Martin.


The fight lasted 40 seconds, give or take.

Pretty hard to pound someone so hard that they lose consciousness in that short a time, even if you are significantly stronger or have better skills.  It would have to be a "Mike Tyson in top form against a small malnourished Asian woman" for it to happen that quickly.

It's actually pretty damned hard thing to do:  I have a scar on my forehead from when I got hit straight on with a billy club.  Took 13 stitches to close the wound.  I was on my feet when it happened, and I was on my feet afterwards, and I never lost consciousness*.  It looked nasty, too, because I was bleeding all over my face.

I'm not claiming bad-ass status here, I'm just pointing out that your apparently preconceived notion of how things must have happened isn't necessarily true.  It takes a *LOT* to knock someone out, and the difference between the amount force required to knock them out, and to kill them, is very, very small.

*Things *DID* go black for a second or two, but I stayed on my feet.
 
2013-07-15 02:23:43 PM  

bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.


It's irrelevant. There are more and more guns in America and every year gun control loses ground. This won't change anything and if anything this trial will strengthen the pro-gun side. It really doesn't matter what people in the rest of the world would do because the US isn't the rest of the world and has little to no interest in what other nations think about it's policies. It's like when people try and convince America to convert to metric because everyone else has. The US just couldn't give a rat's ass what other countries do outside of how it directly impacts America.

It's about race not guns because those in favor of gun control lost the fight and lost badly. Guns are here to stay. Race however is still an open wound in America. A wound that in this case was made worse by the media in an attempt to gain ratings.
 
2013-07-15 02:24:31 PM  

bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.


Actually, quite a few people see this as a solid justification for CCW laws, given that not a single one of the neighbors was willing to step in and stop Marin's assault against Zimmerman, even after Zimmerman began screaming for someone to help.

Still baffles me that everyone expects Zimmerman to have iron self-control and perfect foresight, while they simultaneously expect not the least amount of self-control out of Martin, not even enough to stop hitting the man he has pinned to the ground and that's screaming for someone to help him.
 
2013-07-15 02:24:45 PM  

FeFiFoFark: AdmirableSnackbar: Philip Francis Queeg: dittybopper: AdolfOliverPanties: 

Did Treyvon Martin have the right to defended himself from an armed assailant?

TM threw the first sucker punch, assaulted GZ pinned him down & beat him. He was on offense dumbass.


Consider the opposing perspective: TM catches GZ following him and notices he has a gun on him. Would you, as TM in this situation, perceive that as a threat?
 
2013-07-15 02:25:30 PM  

FeFiFoFark: AdmirableSnackbar: Philip Francis Queeg: dittybopper: AdolfOliverPanties: 

Did Treyvon Martin have the right to defended himself from an armed assailant?

TM threw the first sucker punch, assaulted GZ pinned him down & beat him. He was on offense dumbass.


If George Zimmerman pulled his gun out first, that's assault.  Curiously, he was *very* specific about not having his gun out as he was walking around looking for the address of his own house or whatever.  Told the investigators that repeatedly, and unprompted.

We'll never actually know what happened that evening.  We know what the official account has to be, but don't confuse that for the truth.
 
2013-07-15 02:25:31 PM  

bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.


is this a serious question

zimmerman would have never left his house if martin had been white, hth
 
2013-07-15 02:25:56 PM  

BeesNuts: Weird, I remember the jury instructions, and they were specifically informed that "If George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground"



The opposite is true as well.
 
2013-07-15 02:26:09 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.

It's irrelevant. There are more and more guns in America and every year gun control loses ground. This won't change anything and if anything this trial will strengthen the pro-gun side. It really doesn't matter what people in the rest of the world would do because the US isn't the rest of the world and has little to no interest in what other nations think about it's policies. It's like when people try and convince America to convert to metric because everyone else has. The US just couldn't give a rat's ass what other countries do outside of how it directly impacts America.

It's about race not guns because those in favor of gun control lost the fight and lost badly. Guns are here to stay. Race however is still an open wound in America. A wound that in this case was made worse by the media in an attempt to gain ratings.


Ironically, gun control is most often aimed squarely at minorities.  In fact, it's the last real vestige of the old Jim Crow laws, but we're beating them back bit by bit.
 
2013-07-15 02:26:29 PM  
"Lynch mob"

Interesting word choice.  Ironic, possibly?
 
2013-07-15 02:27:25 PM  

dittybopper: Befuddled: If Trayvon Martin was this super-thug to Zimmerman's sissy-boy as the Zimmerman defenders portray, then why wasn't Zimmerman pounded flat? In real fights, where the one winning wants to do real harm to the other, the one getting the worst of it will be in no shape whatsoever to fight back as the one getting pounded will be unconscious. If Zimmerman's bullshiat account was true and Trayvon Martin was on top raining down blows, Zimmerman would not have been able to shoot Trayvon Martin.

The fight lasted 40 seconds, give or take.

Pretty hard to pound someone so hard that they lose consciousness in that short a time, even if you are significantly stronger or have better skills.  It would have to be a "Mike Tyson in top form against a small malnourished Asian woman" for it to happen that quickly.

It's actually pretty damned hard thing to do:  I have a scar on my forehead from when I got hit straight on with a billy club.  Took 13 stitches to close the wound.  I was on my feet when it happened, and I was on my feet afterwards, and I never lost consciousness*.  It looked nasty, too, because I was bleeding all over my face.

I'm not claiming bad-ass status here, I'm just pointing out that your apparently preconceived notion of how things must have happened isn't necessarily true.  It takes a *LOT* to knock someone out, and the difference between the amount force required to knock them out, and to kill them, is very, very small.

*Things *DID* go black for a second or two, but I stayed on my feet.


Lay off the drugs ditty.  Stop fantasizing about being Zimm.
 
2013-07-15 02:29:22 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case.

Because it is politically advantageous for a variety of organizations for it to be so.


Zimmerman wouldn't have followed a white kid around the neighborhood. And the cops wouldn't have dismissed Martin's death so quickly if Martin had been white.

And someone else said that Martin should have called the cops. Know how I know that someone wasn't black? Because black people don't see cops as someone they can turn to in times of crisis, because why should they when cops automatically assume they're up to no good? Also, remember that the cops didn't identify Martin until his family pushed them to; they just assumed a black kid couldn't possibly be from that neighborhood. And again, the cops did a cursory NARCOTICS investigation and decided that Zimmerman had done nothing wrong. I can't imagine why black people don't trust the cops. shiat, even Levar Burton puts his hands outside his car window when he gets pulled over, and that's in libtardo California, and he's famous.
 
2013-07-15 02:31:13 PM  
Let's remove all subjectivity from this for a moment:

Fact: Martin was an unarmed 17 year old breaking no laws or standards of behavior
Fact: Zimmerman is not an officer of the law
Fact: Zimmerman actively pursued martin after he was told not to
Fact: Zimmerman's pursuit led to a confrontation
Fact: When confronted the unarmed Martin stood his ground and defended himself.
Fact: Zimmerman was losing said confrontation so he pulled a gun on an unarmed man and shot him dead

Where's the justice?
 
2013-07-15 02:32:19 PM  

Elegy: bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.

Actually, quite a few people see this as a solid justification for CCW laws, given that not a single one of the neighbors was willing to step in and stop Marin's assault against Zimmerman, even after Zimmerman began screaming for someone to help.

Still baffles me that everyone expects Zimmerman to have iron self-control and perfect foresight, while they simultaneously expect not the least amount of self-control out of Martin, not even enough to stop hitting the man he has pinned to the ground and that's screaming for someone to help him.


The one with the Gun should REALLY be the one with the control... the fact is if he just had called the police and listened to their instructions, he wouldn't have been in all this. But then he couldn't have been the hero in his own mind and he wouldn't have gotten the chance to shoot a black kid and get away with it.
 
2013-07-15 02:32:41 PM  

king_nacho: AdolfOliverPanties: Sadly, Zimmerman was not guilty of the charges.  The problem is the law in the state of Florida.  All those assholes who pushed for the stand your ground law to be enacted are have blood on their hands along with Zimmerman.  They made what he did legal.

This was a racist, wannabe cop vigilante with a short temper, a shiatty brain that makes horrible decisions and a chip on his shoulder.

Gun owners have a responsibility to be the cooler head, to go away from conflict and confrontation when they are carrying.  They are the ones with the responsibility to ONLY use the weapon in self-defense, and to NOT go looking for situations where they may be forced to defend themselves with it.

Zimmerman went looking for trouble, but according to the farked up Florida law, he did nothing illegal.

He is responsible for Martin's death, but not guilty of a crime.

I think you still would have been hard to find a jury that would convict no matter what the law said.


The real key is that Zimmerman's lawyers successfully persuaded the jury that the incident began when Martin was on top.  Nothing up to that point was considered relevant.  Somehow the prosecutor was unable to counter that "logic".
 
2013-07-15 02:32:49 PM  
debbie_does_dishes, BeesNuts--

you can discuss hypotheticals all day/night but it won't make a difference.
 
2013-07-15 02:33:04 PM  

BeesNuts: BojanglesPaladin: Befuddled: It's kind of ironic that the safest place for Zimmerman now would be a state that doesn't allow concealed carry for any and all idiots that want it and doesn't have a "He's comin' right for us" "Stand yer ground" law.

Again, there was NO STAND YOUR GROUND defense in play here.

Keep repeating that to yourself and anyone else you meet until the urge to show everyone your ignorance passes.

Weird, I remember the jury instructions, and they were specifically informed that "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground"

I can't imagine how anyone could conclude that this case might have something to do with Stand Your Ground.

The relevant statue was actually 776.041

SYG is 776.012.  And it's part of the same chapter on justified use of force.  In fact, when 776.041 says:
"The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:..."
the preceding sections include 776.012.

This semantics game is ridiculous.  They weren't able to press charges initially because of SYG.  The Jury was instructed based on the SYG statute.  The statute ACTUALLY CITED in the defense cites SYG *itself*.


What is commonly referred to a "Stand Your Ground" is actually at 776.013.  776.012 was enacted in 1974 and states what is basically the law of self defense in almost every state.  Don't get too hung up on the language of the jury instructions.  They are standardized and still in flux due to several recent Fla Supreme Court rulings.
 
2013-07-15 02:33:08 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: vpb: king_nacho: antidisestablishmentarianism: Guilty or not if he would have stayed in his car this whole thing would have never happened.

You haven't got a clue what would have happened. If Martin hadn't punched him in the face, this wouldn't have happened either.

Well, Martin couldn't have punched Zimmerman in the face if Zimmerman had followed in a car instead of on foot.  Not if the window was up.

Well Zimmerman couldn't have shot Trayvon if he hadn't gone to the store for munchies. The fault is clearly on Martin.


Let's all be honest here, if Wm. Wrigley Jr Co hadn't produced Skittles, this could all have been avoided. Clearly, the concept of candy is at fault.
 
2013-07-15 02:34:38 PM  

Elegy: bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.

Actually, quite a few people see this as a solid justification for CCW laws, given that not a single one of the neighbors was willing to step in and stop Marin's assault against Zimmerman, even after Zimmerman began screaming for someone to help.

Still baffles me that everyone expects Zimmerman to have iron self-control and perfect foresight, while they simultaneously expect not the least amount of self-control out of Martin, not even enough to stop hitting the man he has pinned to the ground and that's screaming for someone to help him.


We don't expect minors to make good decisions. That's why they can't vote, drink, or buy smokes. Zimmerman was the adult, and the "responsible" authority figure. It was his most basic job to keep his neighborhood safe, and yet because of him a kid from his neighborhood died.
 
2013-07-15 02:34:52 PM  

BeesNuts: FeFiFoFark: AdmirableSnackbar: Philip Francis Queeg: dittybopper: AdolfOliverPanties: 

Did Treyvon Martin have the right to defended himself from an armed assailant?

TM threw the first sucker punch, assaulted GZ pinned him down & beat him. He was on offense dumbass.

If George Zimmerman pulled his gun out first, that's assault.  Curiously, he was *very* specific about not having his gun out as he was walking around looking for the address of his own house or whatever.  Told the investigators that repeatedly, and unprompted.

We'll never actually know what happened that evening.  We know what the official account has to be, but don't confuse that for the truth.


Because having a CCW means you keep it concealed otherwise bye bye license and hello brandishing charges
 
2013-07-15 02:36:39 PM  

IlGreven: TDBoedy: Amazing you're the 11ty billionth person to get it wrong.  If he had invoked stand your ground he'd have had a hearing to avoid trial.  He would have lost that hearing.  He was found not guilty because he used a self defense...defense.  In a civil trial he could face financial penalties regardless if he is found to have been negligent or what have you.  But stand-your-ground does not apply.  But we can all pretend it does right?  maybe it makes you feel more self righteous?

Florida law shields anyone who is justified in the use of deadly force from civil punishment.  By being found not guilty, George Zimmerman was found to be justified in the use of deadly force. Therefore, he is protected under Florida law.

Sucks, don't it?


Not completely true.
Zimmerman was found not guilty by reason of self-defense, which means the family can still go after him in a civil case for wrongful death.
The stand your ground law provides immunity from both criminal and civil consequences - but Zimmerman didn't claim that - so he's still open for being sued.
 
2013-07-15 02:37:20 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Sadly, Zimmerman was not guilty of the charges.  The problem is the law in the state of Florida.  All those assholes who pushed for the stand your ground law to be enacted are have blood on their hands along with Zimmerman.  They made what he did legal.

This was a racist, wannabe cop vigilante with a short temper, a shiatty brain that makes horrible decisions and a chip on his shoulder.

Gun owners have a responsibility to be the cooler head, to go away from conflict and confrontation when they are carrying.  They are the ones with the responsibility to ONLY use the weapon in self-defense, and to NOT go looking for situations where they may be forced to defend themselves with it.

Zimmerman went looking for trouble, but according to the farked up Florida law, he did nothing illegal.

He is responsible for Martin's death, but not guilty of a crime.


He was also a neighbor of a series of people whose homes had been burglarized recently. As head of the neighborhood watch program, it was his responsibility to try to help the cops do a better job of reducing crime in his neighborhood.

Until you live across the street from murderers and a house full of 30 or so illegals who pay $100 a month for mattress rental, you have no idea how quickly a neighborhood can go bad.

What Zimmerman did was wrong. What Martin did was wrong. The police should have stepped up patrols in that neighborhood after the first burglary. But that would mean the citizens paying more taxes. They'd just rather have a few dead Negros instead. Cheaper for them.
 
2013-07-15 02:40:31 PM  

Karac: IlGreven: TDBoedy: Amazing you're the 11ty billionth person to get it wrong.  If he had invoked stand your ground he'd have had a hearing to avoid trial.  He would have lost that hearing.  He was found not guilty because he used a self defense...defense.  In a civil trial he could face financial penalties regardless if he is found to have been negligent or what have you.  But stand-your-ground does not apply.  But we can all pretend it does right?  maybe it makes you feel more self righteous?

Florida law shields anyone who is justified in the use of deadly force from civil punishment.  By being found not guilty, George Zimmerman was found to be justified in the use of deadly force. Therefore, he is protected under Florida law.

Sucks, don't it?

Not completely true.
Zimmerman was found not guilty by reason of self-defense, which means the family can still go after him in a civil case for wrongful death.
The stand your ground law provides immunity from both criminal and civil consequences - but Zimmerman didn't claim that - so he's still open for being sued.


Just because he didn't claim it doesn't mean he didn't waive it.  Since he won on a standard self-defense claim, it becomes trivial to get a SYG waiver.
 
2013-07-15 02:42:04 PM  
as someone upthread already said, two stupid people acting stupid. One is dead, but I'll bet Darwin catches-up with GZ very soon.
 
2013-07-15 02:44:02 PM  
haha stupid anti Zimmerman people who had their mind made up before they got all the facts. I, the smart one, also had my mind made up before I got all the facts but my side one therefore I am smarter than you and I do a celebration dance while you watch and cry about it.
 
2013-07-15 02:44:47 PM  

dittybopper: Plus, according to George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin essentially sucker-punched him


Once again...the word of the shooter is taken at face value.

I have to wonder how many people would be so inclined to accept the killer's version of events if the killer had been Trayvon Martin.  Very few, I'd wager.
 
2013-07-15 02:45:31 PM  

falcon176: haha stupid anti Zimmerman people who had their mind made up before they got all the facts. I, the smart one, also had my mind made up before I got all the facts but my side one therefore I am smarter than you and I do a celebration dance while you watch and cry about it.


also I intentionally use one instead of won to give you a glimmer of hope that I may not be infallible but this is not the case
 
2013-07-15 02:45:34 PM  

falcon176: haha stupid anti Zimmerman people who had their mind made up before they got all the facts. I, the smart one, also had my mind made up before I got all the facts but my side one therefore I am smarter than you and I do a celebration dance while you watch and cry about it.


Did you got to Harvard or Yale?
 
2013-07-15 02:45:36 PM  
Good lord - the stupidity/ignorance in this thread makes me long for a good old fashioned gun thread that argues the same thing over and over and over again.

/won't be coming to any of these threads in the future
//have fun with this crap, everyone.
 
2013-07-15 02:46:28 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: falcon176: haha stupid anti Zimmerman people who had their mind made up before they got all the facts. I, the smart one, also had my mind made up before I got all the facts but my side one therefore I am smarter than you and I do a celebration dance while you watch and cry about it.

Did you got to Harvard or Yale?


nice try lib
 
2013-07-15 02:46:28 PM  
It's clear that George Zimmerman created the circumstances that led to Trayvon Martin's death. And while it's likely that George Zimmerman is an overzealous, possibly racist, individual who should not own a gun, those are all assessments that are not sufficient to bring a murder conviction. The prosecution had a bad case and they presented it even worse. The jury was asked to consider whether Zimmerman broke "the law" and the fact that it's a bad law is really irrelevant.

In addition, the way this case was devoured in the 24-hour news cycle was despicable, with a liberal media that was clownishly over-invested in Zimmerman's guilt, and the ghoulish conservative media's constant smirk at what they characterized as just another black thug who had what was coming to him.

In the end, though...none of this makes Trayvon any less dead, his many any less devastated, or Zimmerman any less of a killer. He just simply wasn't guilty of what he was charged with.
 
2013-07-15 02:49:23 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Elegy: bikkurikun: I am still kind of puzzled why everybody in the US sees the race factor as so important in this case. Martin isn't dead because he is black, he is dead because civilians/morons are allowed to carry guns. In any other civilized country Zimmerman would have stayed in his car because he wouldn't have had a gun.

Actually, quite a few people see this as a solid justification for CCW laws, given that not a single one of the neighbors was willing to step in and stop Marin's assault against Zimmerman, even after Zimmerman began screaming for someone to help.

Still baffles me that everyone expects Zimmerman to have iron self-control and perfect foresight, while they simultaneously expect not the least amount of self-control out of Martin, not even enough to stop hitting the man he has pinned to the ground and that's screaming for someone to help him.

We don't expect minors to make good decisions. That's why they can't vote, drink, or buy smokes. Zimmerman was the adult, and the "responsible" authority figure. It was his most basic job to keep his neighborhood safe, and yet because of him a kid from his neighborhood died.


And that's assuming Martin wasn't intentionally provoked in the first place.

Essentially, that's my family's theory. The testimony had a witness or two mentioning the pair exchanging unheard words (though I may be misremembering), so the way we see it Zimmerman seems like he planned this out: "If I can taunt this kid into throwing ONE punch, enough to show the police on my face that he fought, then I can pull out my concealed weapon and shoot him."

So he did.
 
2013-07-15 02:49:39 PM  
I think they should dig him up and shoot him again.

/lib
 
2013-07-15 02:50:52 PM  

falcon176: TheShavingofOccam123: falcon176: haha stupid anti Zimmerman people who had their mind made up before they got all the facts. I, the smart one, also had my mind made up before I got all the facts but my side one therefore I am smarter than you and I do a celebration dance while you watch and cry about it.

Did you got to Harvard or Yale?

nice try lib


Oh. Obviously Rutgers.
 
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