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(Daily Mail)   Swedish professor nominates Edward Snowden for the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama administration responds by saying; "the nomination seems a bit premature" and suggests Snowden has actually set world peace back decades   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 286
    More: Ironic, Nobel Peace Prize, Professor Stefan Svallfors, Swedish, Norwegian Nobel Committee, Alfred Nobel, fundamental rights, Nuremberg Trials  
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6895 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2013 at 2:27 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 04:16:05 PM

urbangirl: A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...

Militarized police state?  Where do you live?  Pakistan?


I've seen you around here enough to know that you can't possibly believe America doesn't have a police problem.   Salon has been doing a good series on this, here's the first part.  I highly recommend reading the whole thing before coming to an opinion about it.
 
2013-07-15 04:16:29 PM

AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".


Am I okay with it?  No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now?  We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.
 
2013-07-15 04:19:49 PM

Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.


Yep.

There is no gray area,

Nope.

he knew what he was doing was wrong,

Nope.

and now he is running away like a coward.

Yep.

There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.

Nope.

Also, you are a black and white thinking douche.
 
2013-07-15 04:21:42 PM

sendtodave: Ned Stark: Well there's the obvious low hanging fruit of nonviolent drug offenders for "who to let out".

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a war going on.

The War on Drugs?

Ever heard of it?

Winners Don't Use Drugs.

Losers Go To Prison, Never Find A Decent Job Again.


You mean "Operation Produce Ditch Diggers" for a society that has largely demonized basic labor both socially and monetarily"?
 
2013-07-15 04:22:44 PM

Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


Look!  I found the shill!!!
 
2013-07-15 04:22:51 PM

No Such Agency: If you want to REALLY go down the rabbit hole, think about how unaccountably powerful the US defense/intelligence community is.  And how paranoid.  Snowden was supposedly working with a  top secret program: do you really think HE wouldn't be under scrutiny?  There's no way "they" wouldn't have been tipped off that he was planning to go rogue.  That would be their nightmare scenario, after all: their secret business paraded before the world.

So, I propose: Snowden is a patsy.  Working on a probably useful, but low-level setup that was, eventually, intended to be "strategically leaked" when the time was right.  His doubts were known by his superiors, and his eventual actions fully anticipated by them.

So if a comprehensive, wildly un-constitutional surveillance system on the US's own citizens is the program they WANT everyone to get upset about... what are they doing that we don't know about?


The Reverse Vampires are now in bed with Colonel Saunders, now that he's gone tits up.
 
2013-07-15 04:23:14 PM

TelemonianAjax: urbangirl: A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...

Militarized police state?  Where do you live?  Pakistan?

I've seen you around here enough to know that you can't possibly believe America doesn't have a police problem.   Salon has been doing a good series on this, here's the first part.  I highly recommend reading the whole thing before coming to an opinion about it.


Living in a country that has "police problems" is very different from living in a "militaristic police state".  Engaging in that level of hyperbole makes the speaker sound ridiculous and demeans the experiences of all the people on this planet who really do live that horrible life.
 
2013-07-15 04:24:46 PM

sendtodave: Also, you are a black and white thinking douche.


Really, would you like me to think "outside of the box"?  Fark that. Laws, as flawed as they might be, are meant to keep us from anarchy.

If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.
 
2013-07-15 04:25:42 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".

Am I okay with it?   No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now? We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


You understand that the data collection the government is doing is unprecedented, right?  There was an article that people keep posting from 2006 that reported the NSA conducting phone surveillance on 10's of millions.  That clearly has expanded to much more than that.

The continuous erosion of our civil liberties needs to stop and go the other way.

Yeah, Snowden broke the law.  So what?  What more criminal is  the US government disregard of our Constitutional rights.

Attention whore?  Really?  He gave up his whole life and is now a hunted man and up against the whole of the US government.  That's attention whoring anyone would want.

Look, we're on different sides on this one.  If you want to give up your privacy, you go the fark ahead.  I don't.  And I don't like what the government is doing.
 
2013-07-15 04:26:27 PM
ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com

USA! USA! USA!
 
2013-07-15 04:27:20 PM

urbangirl: Living in a country that has "police problems" is very different from living in a "militaristic police state".


If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?

Slightly police state?  Moderately police state?  It-doesn't-affect-me-so-it's-not-a-police-state?
 
2013-07-15 04:28:31 PM

Infobahn: Really, would you like me to think "outside of the box"?


Naw, that's asking to much.

I'd just like you to think.
 
2013-07-15 04:29:36 PM

sendtodave: If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?


Where is this happening?
 
2013-07-15 04:30:24 PM

Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.


You know who else is a felon?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power
 
2013-07-15 04:30:38 PM

Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.


So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?
 
2013-07-15 04:30:41 PM

BigNumber12: sendtodave: If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?

Where is this happening?


Seattle, for one.
 
2013-07-15 04:31:54 PM

BigNumber12: sendtodave: If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?

Where is this happening?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

Also, as I posted earlier, I was often stopped, and ID demanded on threat of arrest, for walking down the street at night, back in the late 90s.

Because a teenager walking at night is sketchy.
 
2013-07-15 04:32:11 PM

Infobahn: Fark that. Laws, as flawed as they might be, are meant to keep us from anarchy.


Unless it's Obama's head of his spy program.

/amiright?
 
2013-07-15 04:32:47 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".

Am I okay with it?  No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now?  We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


Do you hold Clapper to the same ? As in he knowingly committed a FELONY when he lied to Congress. And before anyone says he misspoke or whatever, He was specifically given the questions IN WRITING over 24 hours before he was questioned. He was fully aware of what the Congressman was asking. He chose to lie instead of not answering or asking for a secure briefing. Why is Clapper allowed to commit a felony and no says BOO.

This is just another example of a different set of laws depending on who you are and not what laws were broken. There are just too many examples of this Admin going after the leakers who tell the American people about what is really going on. The real law breakers get movie and book deals and promoted.

I hope Snowden leaks all of it at this point. Hero or not he has certainly informed the public and done us all a service.
 
2013-07-15 04:33:02 PM
Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.
 
2013-07-15 04:33:46 PM

TelemonianAjax: I've seen you around here enough to know that you can't possibly believe America doesn't have a police problem. Salon has been doing a good series on this, here's the first part. I highly recommend reading the whole thing before coming to an opinion about it.


For some reason, I don't get the impression that they read the whole thing before commenting about it.
 
2013-07-15 04:34:06 PM

BullBearMS: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

You know who else is a felon?

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 608x342]

The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power


That asshole needs to be tried for perjury.  Do you think it's going to happen?
 
2013-07-15 04:35:49 PM

Kittypie070: Gods damn Sweebies.


Hey they are not all bad

data.whicdn.com
 
2013-07-15 04:36:53 PM

AeAe: Yeah, Snowden broke the law. So what? What more criminal is the US government disregard of our Constitutional rights.


This

The Constitution is by definition the supreme law of the land. The oath of office for the President all the way down to the grunts in the military is to protect and defend that Constitution.

If anyone is a traitor, it's those who are a traitor to that oath.
 
2013-07-15 04:38:31 PM

sendtodave: Griftin Rubes: how the fark is it " Done in one " when commenter onry repeats submitterer

Done in zero?

SNOWDEN FOR PRESIDENT


I hope you are trolling and not just an idiot, there are at least 3 reasons he can't legally run for president
 
2013-07-15 04:39:24 PM
The process for the Nobel Death to America Prize (aka the soi-disant "Peace" prize) is very simple. Do you hate or do damage to the USA? You are eligible.
 
2013-07-15 04:39:40 PM

Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.


He would spend probably 24 - 36 months in pre-trial solitary confinement. He would get the Bradley Manning treatment

The US Justice system is not something I would be willing to bet my life on.
 
2013-07-15 04:40:18 PM

AeAe: BullBearMS: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

You know who else is a felon?

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 608x342]

The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power

That asshole needs to be tried for perjury.  Do you think it's going to happen?


He's no more going to be prosecuted for his illegal acts than the fraudulent bankers who destroyed the economy.

The rich and powerful have no need to worry about even being charged with a crime.
 
2013-07-15 04:40:23 PM

urbangirl: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.


You're thinking about going to the zoo wearing a brown dress with white lacing up the back, aren't you?
 
2013-07-15 04:42:13 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".

Am I okay with it?  No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now?  We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


While he may have broken the law, Bradley Manning has shown us all what happens when you ruffle the feather of the US government.  Snowden knows that the US has shown itself willing to torture someone for releasing classified information.  He knows he will face un-Constitutional punishments for his actions in exposing un-Constitutional actions. I don't see this as being cowardly, I would say that not doing anything and letting the status quo trudge along would have been cowardly.

That said, he may be an asshat.  He may be a saint, I don't know the guy, I don't care which one he is.  But I'm glad someone was able to raise this issue to the national level it needs to be at, instead of letting it fester in the dark like it had been for years.
 
2013-07-15 04:42:59 PM

sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.


Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.
 
2013-07-15 04:43:47 PM
That's presuming he'll be alive in October.
 
2013-07-15 04:43:49 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?


You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.
 
2013-07-15 04:44:41 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-15 04:45:28 PM

Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.


I think he should, thought I'm afraid that he won't be tried fairly, perhaps even tossed in GITMO for being an enemy f the state.

Can we trust rule of law anymore?  Because it seems that men just use power and money to rewrite the rules in their favor.

For example, did you know that nat gas fracking companies are exempt from the clean water act?  For no real reason.

That sounds more like rule of man than rule of law to me.

There are a million examples of desire and designs overruling law if you want to argue that one. It's just one I thought of just now.

And the heads of both parties WANT to see Snowden tried, and hanged, as a traitor.

Can we trust that he won't just get a show trial, or worse?

Can we expect him to trust that?
 
2013-07-15 04:47:25 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?


Martin Luther definitely ran and hid.
 
2013-07-15 04:48:37 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


actually, i think it's kind of funny.  he thought he'd go on this world tour and every country everywhere would offer asylum, and all he's got is shiat-hole countries...and he can't get there.  he's farked.  and it's becoming less of a story every day.   all for telling us what we already know.

/anybody who didn't know how heavily your internet/phone traffic is monitored is moronic.
 
2013-07-15 04:49:15 PM

Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.


That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.
 
2013-07-15 04:49:41 PM

4tehsnowflakes: sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.

Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.


Fine, he needs to come back and face prosecution for any crimes deemed relevant by the courts.  He is innocent before guilty, but he isn't acting very innocent.

He should have thought about his need for freedom more before he went off and did something he knew he would be prosecuted for.
 
2013-07-15 04:50:17 PM

kindms: Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.

He would spend probably 24 - 36 months in pre-trial solitary confinement. He would get the Bradley Manning treatment

The US Justice system is not something I would be willing to bet my life on.


Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Top Secret Pentagon papers showing that the Government had lied us into the Vietnam war, recently said the exact same thing:

Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don't agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago.

When I surrendered to arrest in Boston, having given out my last copies of the papers the night before, I was released on personal recognizance bond the same day. Later, when my charges were increased from the original three counts to 12, carrying a possible 115-year sentence, my bond was increased to $50,000. But for the whole two years I was under indictment, I was free to speak to the media and at rallies and public lectures. I was, after all, part of a movement against an ongoing war. Helping to end that war was my preeminent concern. I couldn't have done that abroad, and leaving the country never entered my mind.

There is no chance that experience could be reproduced today.

He would almost certainly be confined in total isolation, even longer than the more than eight months Manning suffered during his three years of imprisonment before his trial began recently. The United Nations Special Rapporteur for Torture described Manning's conditions as "cruel, inhuman and degrading." (That realistic prospect, by itself, is grounds for most countries granting Snowden asylum, if they could withstand bullying and bribery from the United States.)

Snowden believes that he has done nothing wrong. I agree wholeheartedly. More than 40 years after my unauthorized disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, such leaks remain the lifeblood of a free press and our republic. One lesson of the Pentagon Papers and Snowden's leaks is simple: secrecy corrupts, just as power corrupts.
 
2013-07-15 04:50:24 PM

4tehsnowflakes: Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.


Fair enough, sorry.  I'm not presuming him guilty, I just think that he is (perhaps, depending on the charges).  We I on the jury, I'd probably say that he broke some law.

Though, if possible, depending on the charges and recommended punishment, I'd try for jury nullification.
 
2013-07-15 04:50:41 PM

FarkedOver: Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?

He should have given it up for many reasons.  The fact that he got the peace prize in the first place cheapens the damn award.


His was benign in comparison to these bozos: The 10 most controversial recipients.

The prize was made irrelevant decades ago.

CSB: my ex-gf's grandpa received one for bioscience.
 
2013-07-15 04:51:11 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.

That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.


1/10
 
2013-07-15 04:51:27 PM

sendtodave: We I


Were I, even.
 
2013-07-15 04:52:24 PM

lohphat: CSB: my ex-gf's grandpa received one for bioscience.


He received a peace prize for bioscience?
 
2013-07-15 04:52:48 PM

ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.


Oh really?

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.htm l">http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press. html
 
2013-07-15 04:52:58 PM

Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.


Unfortunately, reading Fark, I get the impressing finding 12 that wouldn't convict would be more difficult.

Saddest part is I reckon a number of people on both sides would switch sides if the President had a different letter next to his name.
 
2013-07-15 04:54:00 PM

sendtodave: Has anyone mentioned that Obama prematurely received a Nobel Peace Prize?

I hope Snowden gets one. Based on the merits of standing up to the hegemon regarding privacy rights, and also (OK, mostly) for the lulz.


Take a shot, overeducated/underexperienced douchebag who isn't worth taking seriously detected.

And yes, I have used the phrases "hegemony" and "hegemonic" more than I have fair reason to in my life, though at least I had the shame not to use the phrase "hegemon" in a sentence composed in English.
 
2013-07-15 04:54:11 PM

Infobahn: 4tehsnowflakes: sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.

Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.

Fine, he needs to come back and face prosecution for any crimes deemed relevant by the courts.  He is innocent before guilty, but he isn't acting very innocent.

He should have thought about his need for freedom more before he went off and did something he knew he would be prosecuted for.


You're either very naive or willfully ignorant.  He won't get a fair trial.
 
2013-07-15 04:54:56 PM

BullBearMS: More than 40 years after my unauthorized disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, such leaks remain the lifeblood of a free press and our republic. One lesson of the Pentagon Papers and Snowden's leaks is simple: secrecy corrupts, just as power corrupts.


Doesn't this guy understand that 9/11 changed everything?

Because 9/11 changed everything.
 
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