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(Daily Mail)   Swedish professor nominates Edward Snowden for the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama administration responds by saying; "the nomination seems a bit premature" and suggests Snowden has actually set world peace back decades   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 286
    More: Ironic, Nobel Peace Prize, Professor Stefan Svallfors, Swedish, Norwegian Nobel Committee, Alfred Nobel, fundamental rights, Nuremberg Trials  
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6904 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2013 at 2:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



286 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-15 12:06:20 PM
The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.
 
2013-07-15 01:07:40 PM
Yep, if anybody knows from first-hand experience about inappropriate awards of Nobel Peace Prizes, it's Obama.  And Henry Kissinger, of course.
 
2013-07-15 02:19:57 PM

WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.


thatsthejoke.jpg
 
2013-07-15 02:29:13 PM
Daily Mail. Really don't care to read.
 
2013-07-15 02:30:47 PM

WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.


...and scene.

One and done, flawless victory.
 
2013-07-15 02:31:49 PM
Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.
 
2013-07-15 02:31:50 PM
Anyone can nominate anyone.  I believe both Hitler and Stalin were nominated.
 
2013-07-15 02:32:08 PM
Has anyone mentioned that Obama prematurely received a Nobel Peace Prize?

I hope Snowden gets one. Based on the merits of standing up to the hegemon regarding privacy rights, and also (OK, mostly) for the lulz.
 
2013-07-15 02:32:13 PM
This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.
 
2013-07-15 02:33:16 PM

JohnAnnArbor: Anyone can nominate anyone.  I believe both Hitler and Stalin were nominated.


Well yea, but they nominated each other, so you know, they cancel each other out.
 
2013-07-15 02:33:22 PM
Tomorrow's Headline: Swedish Professor Arrested By Authorities For "Rape".
 
2013-07-15 02:33:57 PM
Has anyone mentioned that ALL Nobel prizes are "premature"?
 
2013-07-15 02:33:58 PM

karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.


Which makes it different from any other Fark thread.... how, exactly?
 
2013-07-15 02:34:15 PM
Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?
 
2013-07-15 02:34:34 PM

King Something: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Which makes it different from any other Fark thread.... how, exactly?


one more drunk ape.
 
2013-07-15 02:35:08 PM

WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.


i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"
 
2013-07-15 02:35:11 PM
If Kissinger, Obama, and Arafat can win it, then anything goes, I guess.
 
2013-07-15 02:35:58 PM

Fano: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

...and scene.

One and done, flawless victory.


Actually since repeating the headline joke suggests a failure to get the headline I think the awarding to him the victory was premature.
 
2013-07-15 02:36:07 PM
The Obama administration should shut the frak up about this before they end up looking really stupid.
 
2013-07-15 02:36:19 PM
Done in one.
 
2013-07-15 02:36:26 PM

hardinparamedic: Daily Mail. Really don't care to read.


If the right wing echo chamber doesn't support itself know one will.
 
2013-07-15 02:37:04 PM

Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?


well, "common decency" doesn't seem to have been a motive to do so.
 
2013-07-15 02:37:55 PM

karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.


Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.
 
2013-07-15 02:38:01 PM

omgrtfa: hardinparamedic: Daily Mail. Really don't care to read.

If the right wing echo chamber doesn't support itself know no one will.


FIFM
 
2013-07-15 02:38:07 PM
This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.
 
2013-07-15 02:38:20 PM

Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?


He should have given it up for many reasons.  The fact that he got the peace prize in the first place cheapens the damn award.
 
2013-07-15 02:38:50 PM

King Something: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Which makes it different from any other Fark thread.... how, exactly?


This was made only 4 posts in.  We'll get to 40 drunken apes soon enough.  Starting to smell like a farking zoo in here already...
 
2013-07-15 02:39:33 PM
how the fark is it " Done in one " when commenter onry repeats submitterer
 
2013-07-15 02:40:06 PM

WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.


I was going to make that joke, but Obama beat us all to it by like 5 years.  It's hard to make a "he would know" joke when he actually does know and basically called out the committee for being stupid with his  own nomination (politely, but still).

That said, peace prizes are rarely granted to people that  don't throw a wrench into international diplomacy a bit in the course of their lives.  While Snowden hardly merits one just for being a whistleblower, the fact that he's forced some nations to think a bit outside the box diplomatically is not what disqualifies him.
 
2013-07-15 02:40:36 PM

urbangirl: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.


How can you get a football drunk?
 
2013-07-15 02:40:56 PM
fireclown

Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?

well, "common decency" doesn't seem to have been a motive to do so.
Nobody would say that assclown has any decency.
 
2013-07-15 02:41:06 PM

Griftin Rubes: how the fark is it " Done in one " when commenter onry repeats submitterer


Done in zero?

SNOWDEN FOR PRESIDENT
 
2013-07-15 02:41:27 PM

FarkedOver: Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?

He should have given it up for many reasons.  The fact that he got the peace prize in the first place cheapens the damn award.


Kinda like how the committee awarded itself the prize a year later?
 
2013-07-15 02:42:14 PM
FTFM:

Svallfors compares Snowden's act to the rulings in the Nuremberg trials of 1945 because 'I was just following orders' was not held as a viable excuse for the Nazis who carried out human rights atrocities.


Really?  The actions of the NSA are the moral equivalent of the Nazi holocaust?


Svallfors also believes this will help the Peace Prize regain some of respect it lost after prematurely awarding Barack Obama the award in 2009.

Ah.  And there we have it.
 
2013-07-15 02:42:16 PM
Wow, I seem to have wandered into a Fark Independent thread. You guys doing alright in here, anything I can get for you?
 
2013-07-15 02:43:04 PM

karmaceutical: King Something: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Which makes it different from any other Fark thread.... how, exactly?

This was made only 4 posts in.  We'll get to 40 drunken apes soon enough.  Starting to smell like a farking zoo in here already...


No footballs here, but here's some apes doing some Spring Training.

cdn.motinetwork.net
 
2013-07-15 02:43:31 PM

karmaceutical: urbangirl: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.

How can you get a football drunk?


I've found Jaeger works quite well.
 
2013-07-15 02:43:56 PM
...and Gandhi never got one.
 
2013-07-15 02:43:57 PM

ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.


So words rather than deeds?
 
2013-07-15 02:43:58 PM

fireclown: The Obama administration should shut the frak up about this before they end up looking really stupid.


The only mention of Obama is this:
i.dailymail.co.uk
Too soon: Many criticized the premature awarding of the peace prize to President Barack Obama in 2009

So you were saying?
 
2013-07-15 02:44:06 PM
Gods damn Sweebies.
 
2013-07-15 02:45:32 PM
Hey guys, has anyone pointed out the irony of this statement yet?
 
2013-07-15 02:46:48 PM
imgon.net
picture of that swedish professor
 
2013-07-15 02:47:00 PM
This makes sense, I think.  He should get the prize.

I mean, sure, Snowden is a lying, self serving douche that didn't tell anyone who was paying any attention at all anything they didn't already know.  He just hinted that we should fundamentally change the system, when anyone knows that real change is impossible.  He played us for fools just for his own ego trip.

Wait, did I say Snowden?

I meant the other guy.
 
2013-07-15 02:47:24 PM
When politicians say "peace", you do know what that really means, eh?

Politico Speak, Cop Math, Justice,,,
The Master said, "It's all bullchit, and it's bad for you!"
 
2013-07-15 02:47:40 PM
Zimmerman gets my vote.
 
2013-07-15 02:47:48 PM
Swedish professor nominates Edward Snowden for the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama administration responds by saying; "the nomination seems a bit premature" and suggests Snowden has actually set world peace the US Secret Police & Social Control Infrastructure back decades.


FTFY
 
2013-07-15 02:48:41 PM

sendtodave: This makes sense, I think.  He should get the prize.

I mean, sure, Snowden is a lying, self serving douche that didn't tell anyone who was paying any attention at all anything they didn't already know.  He just hinted that we should fundamentally change the system, when anyone knows that real change is impossible.  He played us for fools just for his own ego trip.

Wait, did I say Snowden?

I meant the other guy.


Haha. Enjoy your green.
 
2013-07-15 02:49:13 PM

ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected.


Oh, good.
What had he done?
 
2013-07-15 02:49:36 PM
Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)
 
2013-07-15 02:50:44 PM

SomethingToDo: Hey guys, has anyone pointed out the irony of this statement yet?


It's only ironic if you are not standing in the Party Line.
 
2013-07-15 02:51:49 PM
Snowden will be Time Magazine's Person of the Year.
 
2013-07-15 02:52:06 PM

Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)


Orly? And what is your cunning plan?
 
2013-07-15 02:52:08 PM

ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.


Ill bite, what did he do to deserve it
 
2013-07-15 02:53:23 PM

Joe Blowme: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

Ill bite, what did he do to deserve it


Wasn't a Bush.
 
2013-07-15 02:53:35 PM

snocone: Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)

Orly? And what is your cunning plan?


i have no plan, just stupid personal opinions... and a stick of gum.... but that has pocket lint stuck to the part that cam out of the wrapper while in my pockets
 
2013-07-15 02:54:19 PM

Kangaroo_Ralph: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

So words rather than deeds?


Words and/or deeds. Either is sufficient.

/and I'm only saying that deeds after the award are irrelevant
 
2013-07-15 02:55:10 PM
blog.thedrahos.net
 
2013-07-15 02:55:39 PM

Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)


Indeed, but he's being punished for letting the American populace know about it. You can bet our enemies already knew they were being spied on.
 
2013-07-15 02:56:19 PM

uncleacid: Zimmerman gets my vote.


The smart money's on Trayvon, who, for some reason, is also nominated in Literature and Economic Sciences.
 
2013-07-15 02:57:02 PM

Joe Blowme: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

Ill bite, what did he do to deserve it


Got elected, ending Republican control of the U.S. government. This might come as a surprise to you, but after 8 years of Bush most of the world easily considered that worth a Nobel.
 
2013-07-15 02:57:45 PM

Joe Blowme: snocone: Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)

Orly? And what is your cunning plan?

i have no plan, just stupid personal opinions... and a stick of gum.... but that has pocket lint stuck to the part that cam out of the wrapper while in my pockets


Yea, tough bein' me today, too. Dropped a weight on a nice piece of glass, water all over, skunky.
My immediate plans for today changed. Will get back to changing the world tomorrow.
Oh, wait, tomorrow is Tuesday,,
 
2013-07-15 02:59:04 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


Suuuuure, you're a "Liberal"...
 
2013-07-15 02:59:15 PM
Peace prize...

Start a race war....
 
2013-07-15 02:59:55 PM
I was joking.

Holy fark you people are idiots.

/[welcometofark.tiff]
 
2013-07-15 03:00:55 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.
-=-

Um, No, not at all.
Those other thoughts... you keep to yourself..., The NSA would like to know those thoughts.
---------------

Snowden, the Hero? I'd vote for him.
Obama? No, I don't feel he deserved getting one, and proved it (to me by being Bush). And Snowden solidified the feeling.
 
2013-07-15 03:01:05 PM
The Nobel Peace Prize has been a joke for decades
 
2013-07-15 03:01:07 PM
Goooood, good; let the butt-hurt floooow through you!

/ I'm surprised we don't burn snowden in effigy once a year, like the Brits with Guy Fox
 
2013-07-15 03:02:59 PM

JohnAnnArbor: Anyone can nominate anyone.  I believe both Hitler and Stalin were nominated.


O'Rly? Go ahead and nominate someone then... Go on... Do it.
 
2013-07-15 03:03:02 PM

snocone: Joe Blowme: snocone: Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)

Orly? And what is your cunning plan?

i have no plan, just stupid personal opinions... and a stick of gum.... but that has pocket lint stuck to the part that cam out of the wrapper while in my pockets

Yea, tough bein' me today, too. Dropped a weight on a nice piece of glass, water all over, skunky.
My immediate plans for today changed. Will get back to changing the world tomorrow.
Oh, wait, tomorrow is Tuesday,,


its all good, tomorrow never comes... tomorrow will be today and today will be yesterday.... dont be bogarting that my friend, pass the dutchie to the left hand side
 
2013-07-15 03:03:05 PM
iheartscotch:
Guy Fox

Guy Fox

Guy Fox


i.telegraph.co.uk
 
2013-07-15 03:03:41 PM

iheartscotch: Goooood, good; let the butt-hurt floooow through you!

/ I'm surprised we don't burn snowden in effigy once a year, like the Brits with Guy Fox


Damned auto correct! I know, I know; guy FAWKES.
 
2013-07-15 03:04:28 PM
Win Nobel Prize
Adviceobama.PNG
Carpet bomb Libya
 
2013-07-15 03:04:54 PM

snocone: When politicians say "peace", you do know what that really means, eh?

Politico Speak, Cop Math, Justice,,,
The Master said, "It's all bullchit, and it's bad for you!"


I like to believe that he is smiling down on us.
 
2013-07-15 03:05:03 PM
I'm pretty sure Snowden actually deserves it but since these are so political I don't imagine they'll let Snowden within a million feet of one
 
2013-07-15 03:06:32 PM

urbangirl: karmaceutical: urbangirl: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.

How can you get a football drunk?

I've found Jaeger works quite well.


I like your style.
 
2013-07-15 03:07:01 PM

Stoker: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.
-=-
Um, No, not at all.
Those other thoughts... you keep to yourself..., The NSA would like to know those thoughts.


HA! That's a funny. The NSA already knows those thoughts. Their thought-stealin' machine collected 'em weeks ago. And the Thought Implantor has secretly put treasonous ideas in your head so when they need a token Terror Suspect® they can come by and pick up you. Threat Level: Double Fear Xenon Strobe!
 
2013-07-15 03:07:46 PM
images.dailytech.com

If he'd come up with a Power Point presentation he would have been a shoe in for the Nobel Peace Prize.  Either that or killed some people with drone strikes.  The Norwegians seem to love people who do that.
 
2013-07-15 03:08:18 PM

karmaceutical: urbangirl: karmaceutical: urbangirl: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.

How can you get a football drunk?

I've found Jaeger works quite well.

I like your style.


Get in line, dude.
 
2013-07-15 03:09:20 PM
So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?
 
2013-07-15 03:09:25 PM

Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.


They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.
 
2013-07-15 03:12:01 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


I've alway been one that a government worker had got to face the music when they do these things. You took an oath.

Snowmden did contacting job falls under that.

That being said, these programs need to be looked at hard and long about abilities and accountability.
 
2013-07-15 03:12:13 PM

sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?


Yes.
 
2013-07-15 03:12:43 PM

qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.


Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.
 
2013-07-15 03:13:56 PM

qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.


There was that year that the Quakers won it... And Churchhill worked hard to sink a disobedient subject.
 
2013-07-15 03:14:34 PM

sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.


He's a one-man wrecking crew, but he also knows how to PARTY!

There is only one law: HIS law!
 
2013-07-15 03:14:36 PM

skinink: Snowden will be Time Magazine's Person of the Year.


He will be a rare two time winner then, since he first won it back in 2006.
 
2013-07-15 03:15:03 PM
I suppose if  Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Leymah Gbowee and Tawakkol Karman can win it, then anybody can, right?
 
2013-07-15 03:15:27 PM
I really don't like the idea of the NSA being able to spy on whoever the fark they want to in this country.  As far as I'm concerned, Snowden is a farking hero, like many whistle blowers.
 
2013-07-15 03:15:27 PM

Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.


We have one commie fascist that says that the US security and military state should be brought down a few pegs.

Shall we all comment on his girlfriend, or how gay he looks, for a few days?
 
2013-07-15 03:15:48 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


I doubt a "Liberal" like you would have been conflicted if a Republican was in charge.
 
2013-07-15 03:17:05 PM

Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.


One of those guys, eh Ned? You know... instead of wishing your fellow Americans and your country ill will, you could just leave. You know, go to wherever it is you think is better.
 
2013-07-15 03:18:27 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.

He's a one-man wrecking crew, but he also knows how to PARTY!

There is only one law: HIS law!


Green 4:  Humor.

Raving Ghandi.  With salt, glow sticks.

Why hasn't anyone made this gif?

WHY?
 
2013-07-15 03:19:42 PM

JohnnyC: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

One of those guys, eh Ned? You know... instead of wishing your fellow Americans and your country ill will, you could just leave. You know, go to wherever it is you think is better.


So I have to abandon my home because I was born next to a bunch of assholes? Nah, that's OK, I think I'll stick around.
 
2013-07-15 03:20:07 PM

JohnnyC: One of those guys, eh Ned?


I dunno, he seemed kinda gay to me.
 
2013-07-15 03:20:21 PM

Fano: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

There was that year that the Quakers won it... And Churchhill worked hard to sink a disobedient subject.


Yeah, but they were American Quakers.

There is this, however: "In 1948, following Gandhi's death, the Nobel Committee declined to award a prize on the ground that "there was no suitable living candidate" that year."
 
2013-07-15 03:21:09 PM

Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.


Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.
 
2013-07-15 03:21:19 PM

Fallout Boy: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

I doubt a "Liberal" like you would have been conflicted if a Republican was in charge.


+1 TRUTH

Your sword hits harder now.
 
2013-07-15 03:21:29 PM

JohnnyC: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

One of those guys, eh Ned? You know... instead of wishing your fellow Americans and your country ill will, you could just leave. You know, go to wherever it is you think is better.


Don't worry about him.  He just doesn't have his head on straight.
 
2013-07-15 03:23:06 PM

qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.


Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...
 
2013-07-15 03:23:43 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


No.
 
2013-07-15 03:24:05 PM
If you want to REALLY go down the rabbit hole, think about how unaccountably powerful the US defense/intelligence community is.  And how paranoid.  Snowden was supposedly working with a  top secret program: do you really think HE wouldn't be under scrutiny?  There's no way "they" wouldn't have been tipped off that he was planning to go rogue.  That would be their nightmare scenario, after all: their secret business paraded before the world.

So, I propose: Snowden is a patsy.  Working on a probably useful, but low-level setup that was, eventually, intended to be "strategically leaked" when the time was right.  His doubts were known by his superiors, and his eventual actions fully anticipated by them.

So if a comprehensive, wildly un-constitutional surveillance system on the US's own citizens is the program they WANT everyone to get upset about... what are they doing that we don't know about?
 
2013-07-15 03:24:47 PM

Stoker: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.
-=-
Um, No, not at all.
Those other thoughts... you keep to yourself..., The NSA would like to know those thoughts.
---------------

Snowden, the Hero? I'd vote for him.
Obama? No, I don't feel he deserved getting one, and proved it (to me by being Bush). And Snowden solidified the feeling.


Really? Did Obama lied and started two major wars?

He's ended Iraq and Afghanistan ends next year. He now kills our enemies with drones instead of risking our troops. Or when he does risk our troops, he gets the job done with minimal casualty.

He stopped torture, and still is trying to close GITMO.

He also changed the Patriot Act to require warrants. Sadly it's an rubber stamp warrant.
 
2013-07-15 03:24:59 PM

Ned Stark: One of those guys, eh Ned? You know... instead of wishing your fellow Americans and your country ill will, you could just leave. You know, go to wherever it is you think is better.

So I have to abandon my home because I was born next to a bunch of assholes? Nah, that's OK, I think I'll stick around.


Ahh... So you're saying you don't want the country to fall apart, you just want everyone else to suffer? How did you became so hateful of your fellow Americans? Did you get beat up a lot? Were you alienated? Were you shunned by the girl of your dreams? Didn't get that job you always wanted? What was it, Ned? Why do you hate your fellow countrymen?
 
2013-07-15 03:26:27 PM

AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.


So eloquent.
 
2013-07-15 03:29:19 PM

pnome: Don't worry about him.  He just doesn't have his head on straight.


Ned Stark might not have his head on straight, but aren't you at least a little curious why he hates us? I know I am. There must be a valid reason why, in his eyes, everyone but him is an 'asshole'. I asked him... I hope he tells us his tragic story of oppression and malfeasance.
 
2013-07-15 03:29:34 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...


Militarized police state?  Where do you live?  Pakistan?
 
2013-07-15 03:29:48 PM

JohnnyC: Ned Stark: One of those guys, eh Ned? You know... instead of wishing your fellow Americans and your country ill will, you could just leave. You know, go to wherever it is you think is better.

So I have to abandon my home because I was born next to a bunch of assholes? Nah, that's OK, I think I'll stick around.

Ahh... So you're saying you don't want the country to fall apart, you just want everyone else to suffer? How did you became so hateful of your fellow Americans? Did you get beat up a lot? Were you alienated? Were you shunned by the girl of your dreams? Didn't get that job you always wanted? What was it, Ned? Why do you hate your fellow countrymen?


Where did I state I didn't want the country to "fall apart"? Or that I wanted people to suffer? You are imagining things.
 
2013-07-15 03:30:02 PM
Exposing a crime should not be a crime.

Need to put that on a bumper sticker.
 
2013-07-15 03:31:21 PM
The NSA & Homeland security spying on the U.S. and generally monitoring our every move is nothing but fascism in action.

Everyone who is equating this behavior by these agencies as something that promotes freedom or security is simply wrong.

Exposing this wrong doing and criminal activity by these agencies is an obligation to anyone who believes in liberty and freedom.
 
2013-07-15 03:32:13 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...


I have a little bit of pot in my sock.

I deserve the NSA to turn me over for saying "I have a little bit of pot in my sock" to the FBI. And then I deseve 15 years in prison.

Because freedom!

/OK, now I'm getting bitter again
//dammitsomuch
///why is our great nation run by such authoritarian douchebags?
 
2013-07-15 03:33:02 PM

Ned Stark: Where did I state I didn't want the country to "fall apart"? Or that I wanted people to suffer? You are imagining things.


Well, you must want America to be weaker for some reason. If not to see your fellow Americans suffer, why?
 
2013-07-15 03:33:21 PM

No Such Agency: If you want to REALLY go down the rabbit hole, think about how unaccountably powerful the US defense/intelligence community is.  And how paranoid.  Snowden was supposedly working with a  top secret program: do you really think HE wouldn't be under scrutiny?  There's no way "they" wouldn't have been tipped off that he was planning to go rogue.  That would be their nightmare scenario, after all: their secret business paraded before the world.

So, I propose: Snowden is a patsy.  Working on a probably useful, but low-level setup that was, eventually, intended to be "strategically leaked" when the time was right.  His doubts were known by his superiors, and his eventual actions fully anticipated by them.

So if a comprehensive, wildly un-constitutional surveillance system on the US's own citizens is the program they WANT everyone to get upset about... what are they doing that we don't know about?


So the Romulans are not getting ready to attack?
 
2013-07-15 03:33:29 PM

stuffy: Exposing a crime should not be a crime.

Need to put that on a bumper sticker.


It is when you break your oath to the country.

Spying by its nature is a criminal act. So please try not limit your thinking to bumper sticker lengths.
 
2013-07-15 03:33:32 PM

Griftin Rubes: i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


It wasn't Obama who did that; it was the US voters. They were the ones who should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize; "...for voting the Republicans out of the White House ..." The US ambassador  could have picked it up on their behalf.

As a norwegian, I had to check to see whether it was April 1st when I heard about Obama getting the peace award. Still, it has been given to far worse people.
 
2013-07-15 03:34:22 PM

Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


Obama did that, did he? Tell me you don't vote.
 
2013-07-15 03:35:15 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...


I didn't say it was peaceful now.
 
2013-07-15 03:37:24 PM

Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)


Last I heard, he stated that he didn't give any secrets to China or Russia. Not telling you who to believe - just pointing that out.
 
2013-07-15 03:38:27 PM

JohnnyC: Ned Stark: Where did I state I didn't want the country to "fall apart"? Or that I wanted people to suffer? You are imagining things.

Well, you must want America to be weaker for some reason. If not to see your fellow Americans suffer, why?


So it will stop exporting suffer to the rest of the planet.

Hell, its not like America has been all that good to its citizens and residents locally either. More prisons than anywhere else in the world.
 
2013-07-15 03:38:32 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Joe Blowme: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

Ill bite, what did he do to deserve it

Got elected, ending Republican control of the U.S. government. This might come as a surprise to you, but after 8 years of Bush most of the world easily considered that worth a Nobel.



Yes, well then, joke's on the rest of the world. Clearly a large number of them don't understand the nature of our political system.
 
2013-07-15 03:39:52 PM

phenn: Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"

Obama did that, did he? Tell me you don't vote.


Ahh, you're right. He didn't spend an incredible amount of time, effort, and money to become President. He ran unopposed, right? He just waltzed right on in there. Nobody named McCain was running against him. Or maybe you're saying he didn't earn his votes... OH! Are you saying he STOLE THEM?! Ah ha! Tell us more!
 
2013-07-15 03:40:24 PM

orezona: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

Suuuuure, you're a "Liberal"...


You're surprised that a 'Liberal' wants the same thing that Obama does?
 
2013-07-15 03:41:34 PM

urbangirl: A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...

Militarized police state?  Where do you live?  Pakistan?


...

In the late 90s, when I was a teenager,,

(old man story to follow.  expect onion belts)

I grew up in the poorest neighborhood of the richest county in the country.  When I was a teenage nerd I used to like to hang out at the local Denny's to late hours, drinking coffee and talking about things that would someday never change the world.

Every night that I was out past midnight, and I walked home, I would be stopped by the police.  And they demanded my ID, on threat of "going back to the station."

Every friggen time.  And I'm a white guy!  In the 90s!

"Oh, well, there have been a lot of cars broken into in this neighborhood.  We need to insinuate that you may be a criminal, because you are walking at odd hours!  WTF are you going to do about it?"

I told my father about this recently, and he popped an old man gasket.  "They did WHAT?"

Me?  I just figured it was normal to get stopped by the police, questioned and searched.

Imagine how a black guy feels.  Or a Mexican.

Yeah.

I'm thinking police state.
 
2013-07-15 03:44:06 PM
I should have let them hook my TV up and monitor my programs, but it seemed like such a hassle since the NSA had just done it the week before.  I would have voted for him.

Wait, it is the Neilsens that give out Nobel Prizes right?
 
2013-07-15 03:44:13 PM

Ned Stark: JohnnyC: Ned Stark: Where did I state I didn't want the country to "fall apart"? Or that I wanted people to suffer? You are imagining things.

Well, you must want America to be weaker for some reason. If not to see your fellow Americans suffer, why?

So it will stop exporting suffer to the rest of the planet.

Hell, its not like America has been all that good to its citizens and residents locally either. More prisons than anywhere else in the world.


Are you a US citizen?

Is your family "foreign?"

If so, well, that's still cool, it shows how the rest of the world sees the US.

As a bully.

But we know this already.
 
2013-07-15 03:45:19 PM

Ned Stark: JohnnyC: Ned Stark: Where did I state I didn't want the country to "fall apart"? Or that I wanted people to suffer? You are imagining things.

Well, you must want America to be weaker for some reason. If not to see your fellow Americans suffer, why?

So it will stop exporting suffer to the rest of the planet.

Hell, its not like America has been all that good to its citizens and residents locally either. More prisons than anywhere else in the world.


So how are you proposing we make these changes? I assume you mean we fight in no more conflicts anywhere in the world. So... military isolationism. I might be able to get on board with that... but we'd have to stop funding countries like Israel and any other country that engages in conflicts too. We can't just keep our soldiers out of it but keep our dollars in it. So maybe some financial isolationism as well.

What about the prisoners here in the US? How do you propose we deal with that? Who do you let go? Who do you keep in prison? How do we decide?
 
2013-07-15 03:45:20 PM

JohnnyC: phenn: Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"

Obama did that, did he? Tell me you don't vote.

Ahh, you're right. He didn't spend an incredible amount of time, effort, and money to become President. He ran unopposed, right? He just waltzed right on in there. Nobody named McCain was running against him. Or maybe you're saying he didn't earn his votes... OH! Are you saying he STOLE THEM?! Ah ha! Tell us more!


I'm saying the voters put him in office. Either way, it was a painfully stupid remark. Painfully stupid.
 
2013-07-15 03:46:43 PM

JohnnyC: I assume you mean we fight in no more conflicts anywhere in the world. So... military isolationism. I might be able to get on board with that... but we'd have to stop funding countries like Israel and any other country that engages in conflicts too.


I fail to see the problem.
 
2013-07-15 03:46:56 PM

ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.


He was awarded the NPP for one reason and one reason alone: as a giant "f**k you" to his predecessor's administration.

/little did they know
 
2013-07-15 03:48:04 PM
The quote in subby's headline doesn't appear in the article. WTF?
 
2013-07-15 03:48:24 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

He was awarded the NPP for one reason and one reason alone: as a giant "f**k you" to his predecessor's administration.

/little did they know


So, an Snowden get the award as a giant fark you to the Obama administration?

Seems fair.
 
2013-07-15 03:50:57 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


Going to Whole Foods doesn't make you a liberal.
 
2013-07-15 03:51:32 PM
grokca:
So the Romulans are not getting ready to attack?

Not as far as I know.  I can't make any promises about CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN however.
 
2013-07-15 03:51:44 PM

sendtodave: So, an Snowden


can*

And actually, you know, that's kinda a thing.

People go "Of course Obama didn't live up to expectations, he's a moderate centrist, he'll just continue or expand the programs that Bush put into place, couldn't you see that?"  With their 20/20 hind sight.

The friggen Nobel Peace Prize committee believed in Change.  What do you expect?
 
2013-07-15 03:52:24 PM

oryx: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

Going to Whole Foods doesn't make you a liberal.


What if he goes there in a Prius?
 
2013-07-15 03:54:08 PM
I hope he wins, he deserves one more than Obama ever did.
 
2013-07-15 03:55:47 PM

ZoeNekros: Kangaroo_Ralph: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

So words rather than deeds?

Words and/or deeds. Either is sufficient.

/and I'm only saying that deeds after the award are irrelevant


Ummm. No.

When the deeds are the direct opposite of the words, they are not irrelevant at all.
 
2013-07-15 03:58:52 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: /little did they know


The rapture experienced in the rest of the world in 2008 shows just how well we play our game. Most of the rest of the world is completely accustomed to "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" in their own political systems, and yet they think that the United States is somehow above such things.

Our Government has WELL over 2 centuries of continuity-of-government under its belt - much longer than most of the world has. People are being hoodwinked by their own hopes and fantasies if they believe that a U.S. election marks any sort of meaningful change of course in the way we do business.
 
2013-07-15 04:00:58 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.


Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".
 
2013-07-15 04:01:05 PM

fireclown: The Obama administration should shut the frak up about this before they end up looking really stupid.


If Obama had a Peace Prize, it would look like Snowden's.

Since you mentioned Obama's need to shut up before he looks stupid.
 
2013-07-15 04:01:08 PM

JohnnyC: Ned Stark: JohnnyC: Ned Stark: Where did I state I didn't want the country to "fall apart"? Or that I wanted people to suffer? You are imagining things.

Well, you must want America to be weaker for some reason. If not to see your fellow Americans suffer, why?

So it will stop exporting suffer to the rest of the planet.

Hell, its not like America has been all that good to its citizens and residents locally either. More prisons than anywhere else in the world.

So how are you proposing we make these changes? I assume you mean we fight in no more conflicts anywhere in the world. So... military isolationism. I might be able to get on board with that... but we'd have to stop funding countries like Israel and any other country that engages in conflicts too. We can't just keep our soldiers out of it but keep our dollars in it. So maybe some financial isolationism as well.

What about the prisoners here in the US? How do you propose we deal with that? Who do you let go? Who do you keep in prison? How do we decide?


Well there's the obvious low hanging fruit of nonviolent drug offenders for "who to let out".
 
2013-07-15 04:01:45 PM

BigNumber12: Pants full of macaroni!!: /little did they know

The rapture experienced in the rest of the world in 2008 shows just how well we play our game. Most of the rest of the world is completely accustomed to "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" in their own political systems, and yet they think that the United States is somehow above such things.

Our Government has WELL over 2 centuries of continuity-of-government under its belt - much longer than most of the world has. People are being hoodwinked by their own hopes and fantasies if they believe that a U.S. election marks any sort of meaningful change of course in the way we do business.


Sooooo... What do you suggest to enact real change?

/please say revolution
//I want to give the NSA something to care about tonight
 
2013-07-15 04:03:46 PM

Ned Stark: Well there's the obvious low hanging fruit of nonviolent drug offenders for "who to let out".


Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a war going on.

The War on Drugs?

Ever heard of it?

Winners Don't Use Drugs.

Losers Go To Prison, Never Find A Decent Job Again.
 
2013-07-15 04:04:14 PM
When the Nobel committee moves to strip Obama of his peace prize for not halting the seizure of my texts, calls, emails, location records, and network data, and for ensuring that the Government could easily prove my fondness for tranny German monkey midget scat porn, then we can talk.
 
2013-07-15 04:05:45 PM

sendtodave: Sooooo... What do you suggest to enact real change?


Why would we want that?
 
2013-07-15 04:06:38 PM
If McCain had won, we would still be at full deployment in both middle eastern wars that exist when Obama took office. We would also probably engaged in Iran and Syria.
 
2013-07-15 04:09:54 PM
4tehsnowflakes: When the Nobel committee moves to strip Obama of his peace prize for not halting the seizure of my texts, calls, emails, location records, and network data, and for ensuring that the Government could easily prove my fondness for tranny German monkey midget scat porn, then we can talk.

tranny German monkey midget scat porn? thats lightweight stuff by Fark standards. Call us back when you graduate to tranny Thai donkey amputee midget feltch porn
 
2013-07-15 04:10:45 PM

BigNumber12: sendtodave: Sooooo... What do you suggest to enact real change?

Why would we want that?


Fair enough.

Status quo we can believe in!
 
2013-07-15 04:13:18 PM

sendtodave: Ned Stark: Well there's the obvious low hanging fruit of nonviolent drug offenders for "who to let out".

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a war going on.

The War on Drugs?

Ever heard of it?

Winners Don't Use Drugs.

Losers Go To Prison, Never Find A Decent Job Again.


Of yeah, that whole system where you never get to make money again after you go to jail is back asswards too. Its really too bad that making arrests secret would be even worse.
 
2013-07-15 04:13:56 PM

overfienduglar: If McCain had won

...

Um.

The people didn't want him, nor did the powers that be.  Might as well have said "If my poodle had won..."

Anything that follows is pure fantasy.

Interesting tangent for a boring thread, though.
 
2013-07-15 04:16:05 PM

urbangirl: A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...

Militarized police state?  Where do you live?  Pakistan?


I've seen you around here enough to know that you can't possibly believe America doesn't have a police problem.   Salon has been doing a good series on this, here's the first part.  I highly recommend reading the whole thing before coming to an opinion about it.
 
2013-07-15 04:16:29 PM

AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".


Am I okay with it?  No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now?  We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.
 
2013-07-15 04:19:49 PM

Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.


Yep.

There is no gray area,

Nope.

he knew what he was doing was wrong,

Nope.

and now he is running away like a coward.

Yep.

There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.

Nope.

Also, you are a black and white thinking douche.
 
2013-07-15 04:21:42 PM

sendtodave: Ned Stark: Well there's the obvious low hanging fruit of nonviolent drug offenders for "who to let out".

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a war going on.

The War on Drugs?

Ever heard of it?

Winners Don't Use Drugs.

Losers Go To Prison, Never Find A Decent Job Again.


You mean "Operation Produce Ditch Diggers" for a society that has largely demonized basic labor both socially and monetarily"?
 
2013-07-15 04:22:44 PM

Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


Look!  I found the shill!!!
 
2013-07-15 04:22:51 PM

No Such Agency: If you want to REALLY go down the rabbit hole, think about how unaccountably powerful the US defense/intelligence community is.  And how paranoid.  Snowden was supposedly working with a  top secret program: do you really think HE wouldn't be under scrutiny?  There's no way "they" wouldn't have been tipped off that he was planning to go rogue.  That would be their nightmare scenario, after all: their secret business paraded before the world.

So, I propose: Snowden is a patsy.  Working on a probably useful, but low-level setup that was, eventually, intended to be "strategically leaked" when the time was right.  His doubts were known by his superiors, and his eventual actions fully anticipated by them.

So if a comprehensive, wildly un-constitutional surveillance system on the US's own citizens is the program they WANT everyone to get upset about... what are they doing that we don't know about?


The Reverse Vampires are now in bed with Colonel Saunders, now that he's gone tits up.
 
2013-07-15 04:23:14 PM

TelemonianAjax: urbangirl: A Dark Evil Omen: qorkfiend: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

Good, at least in the long run? Probably.
Peaceful? Definitely not.

Oh, yeah, it's so very peaceful now. I suppose the militarized police state makes it peaceful outside your front door as long as you don't say anything or do anything to upset anyone in power or are a minority or dress funny or...

Militarized police state?  Where do you live?  Pakistan?

I've seen you around here enough to know that you can't possibly believe America doesn't have a police problem.   Salon has been doing a good series on this, here's the first part.  I highly recommend reading the whole thing before coming to an opinion about it.


Living in a country that has "police problems" is very different from living in a "militaristic police state".  Engaging in that level of hyperbole makes the speaker sound ridiculous and demeans the experiences of all the people on this planet who really do live that horrible life.
 
2013-07-15 04:24:46 PM

sendtodave: Also, you are a black and white thinking douche.


Really, would you like me to think "outside of the box"?  Fark that. Laws, as flawed as they might be, are meant to keep us from anarchy.

If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.
 
2013-07-15 04:25:42 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".

Am I okay with it?   No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now? We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


You understand that the data collection the government is doing is unprecedented, right?  There was an article that people keep posting from 2006 that reported the NSA conducting phone surveillance on 10's of millions.  That clearly has expanded to much more than that.

The continuous erosion of our civil liberties needs to stop and go the other way.

Yeah, Snowden broke the law.  So what?  What more criminal is  the US government disregard of our Constitutional rights.

Attention whore?  Really?  He gave up his whole life and is now a hunted man and up against the whole of the US government.  That's attention whoring anyone would want.

Look, we're on different sides on this one.  If you want to give up your privacy, you go the fark ahead.  I don't.  And I don't like what the government is doing.
 
2013-07-15 04:26:27 PM
ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com

USA! USA! USA!
 
2013-07-15 04:27:20 PM

urbangirl: Living in a country that has "police problems" is very different from living in a "militaristic police state".


If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?

Slightly police state?  Moderately police state?  It-doesn't-affect-me-so-it's-not-a-police-state?
 
2013-07-15 04:28:31 PM

Infobahn: Really, would you like me to think "outside of the box"?


Naw, that's asking to much.

I'd just like you to think.
 
2013-07-15 04:29:36 PM

sendtodave: If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?


Where is this happening?
 
2013-07-15 04:30:24 PM

Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.


You know who else is a felon?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power
 
2013-07-15 04:30:38 PM

Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.


So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?
 
2013-07-15 04:30:41 PM

BigNumber12: sendtodave: If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?

Where is this happening?


Seattle, for one.
 
2013-07-15 04:31:54 PM

BigNumber12: sendtodave: If people are asked for "ID, please" just for walking down the street (at night, while black, whatever), where, exactly, on the police state scale would you put that?

Where is this happening?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

Also, as I posted earlier, I was often stopped, and ID demanded on threat of arrest, for walking down the street at night, back in the late 90s.

Because a teenager walking at night is sketchy.
 
2013-07-15 04:32:11 PM

Infobahn: Fark that. Laws, as flawed as they might be, are meant to keep us from anarchy.


Unless it's Obama's head of his spy program.

/amiright?
 
2013-07-15 04:32:47 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".

Am I okay with it?  No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now?  We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


Do you hold Clapper to the same ? As in he knowingly committed a FELONY when he lied to Congress. And before anyone says he misspoke or whatever, He was specifically given the questions IN WRITING over 24 hours before he was questioned. He was fully aware of what the Congressman was asking. He chose to lie instead of not answering or asking for a secure briefing. Why is Clapper allowed to commit a felony and no says BOO.

This is just another example of a different set of laws depending on who you are and not what laws were broken. There are just too many examples of this Admin going after the leakers who tell the American people about what is really going on. The real law breakers get movie and book deals and promoted.

I hope Snowden leaks all of it at this point. Hero or not he has certainly informed the public and done us all a service.
 
2013-07-15 04:33:02 PM
Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.
 
2013-07-15 04:33:46 PM

TelemonianAjax: I've seen you around here enough to know that you can't possibly believe America doesn't have a police problem. Salon has been doing a good series on this, here's the first part. I highly recommend reading the whole thing before coming to an opinion about it.


For some reason, I don't get the impression that they read the whole thing before commenting about it.
 
2013-07-15 04:34:06 PM

BullBearMS: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

You know who else is a felon?

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 608x342]

The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power


That asshole needs to be tried for perjury.  Do you think it's going to happen?
 
2013-07-15 04:35:49 PM

Kittypie070: Gods damn Sweebies.


Hey they are not all bad

data.whicdn.com
 
2013-07-15 04:36:53 PM

AeAe: Yeah, Snowden broke the law. So what? What more criminal is the US government disregard of our Constitutional rights.


This

The Constitution is by definition the supreme law of the land. The oath of office for the President all the way down to the grunts in the military is to protect and defend that Constitution.

If anyone is a traitor, it's those who are a traitor to that oath.
 
2013-07-15 04:38:31 PM

sendtodave: Griftin Rubes: how the fark is it " Done in one " when commenter onry repeats submitterer

Done in zero?

SNOWDEN FOR PRESIDENT


I hope you are trolling and not just an idiot, there are at least 3 reasons he can't legally run for president
 
2013-07-15 04:39:24 PM
The process for the Nobel Death to America Prize (aka the soi-disant "Peace" prize) is very simple. Do you hate or do damage to the USA? You are eligible.
 
2013-07-15 04:39:40 PM

Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.


He would spend probably 24 - 36 months in pre-trial solitary confinement. He would get the Bradley Manning treatment

The US Justice system is not something I would be willing to bet my life on.
 
2013-07-15 04:40:18 PM

AeAe: BullBearMS: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

You know who else is a felon?

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 608x342]

The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power

That asshole needs to be tried for perjury.  Do you think it's going to happen?


He's no more going to be prosecuted for his illegal acts than the fraudulent bankers who destroyed the economy.

The rich and powerful have no need to worry about even being charged with a crime.
 
2013-07-15 04:40:23 PM

urbangirl: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Do apes commonly try to fark footballs?  Or is it only when they're drunk?

Just asking questions.


You're thinking about going to the zoo wearing a brown dress with white lacing up the back, aren't you?
 
2013-07-15 04:42:13 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

No.

So eloquent.

Let me ask you:  Are you ok with the massive spying the US government is conducting on the American people?  Because I'm not.  And, no, I don't want to "crush Snowden".

Am I okay with it?  No, but I was never naive to think it hasn't happened before this.  Why is this a big deal now?  We beg to be protected, and then cry when they do it.  I just finished receiving all of my FOIA requests back, and I am a boring person.  I know they have been collecting information on me, and the government started collecting it with my birth certificate.

Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


While he may have broken the law, Bradley Manning has shown us all what happens when you ruffle the feather of the US government.  Snowden knows that the US has shown itself willing to torture someone for releasing classified information.  He knows he will face un-Constitutional punishments for his actions in exposing un-Constitutional actions. I don't see this as being cowardly, I would say that not doing anything and letting the status quo trudge along would have been cowardly.

That said, he may be an asshat.  He may be a saint, I don't know the guy, I don't care which one he is.  But I'm glad someone was able to raise this issue to the national level it needs to be at, instead of letting it fester in the dark like it had been for years.
 
2013-07-15 04:42:59 PM

sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.


Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.
 
2013-07-15 04:43:47 PM
That's presuming he'll be alive in October.
 
2013-07-15 04:43:49 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?


You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.
 
2013-07-15 04:44:41 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-15 04:45:28 PM

Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.


I think he should, thought I'm afraid that he won't be tried fairly, perhaps even tossed in GITMO for being an enemy f the state.

Can we trust rule of law anymore?  Because it seems that men just use power and money to rewrite the rules in their favor.

For example, did you know that nat gas fracking companies are exempt from the clean water act?  For no real reason.

That sounds more like rule of man than rule of law to me.

There are a million examples of desire and designs overruling law if you want to argue that one. It's just one I thought of just now.

And the heads of both parties WANT to see Snowden tried, and hanged, as a traitor.

Can we trust that he won't just get a show trial, or worse?

Can we expect him to trust that?
 
2013-07-15 04:47:25 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?


Martin Luther definitely ran and hid.
 
2013-07-15 04:48:37 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


actually, i think it's kind of funny.  he thought he'd go on this world tour and every country everywhere would offer asylum, and all he's got is shiat-hole countries...and he can't get there.  he's farked.  and it's becoming less of a story every day.   all for telling us what we already know.

/anybody who didn't know how heavily your internet/phone traffic is monitored is moronic.
 
2013-07-15 04:49:15 PM

Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.


That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.
 
2013-07-15 04:49:41 PM

4tehsnowflakes: sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.

Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.


Fine, he needs to come back and face prosecution for any crimes deemed relevant by the courts.  He is innocent before guilty, but he isn't acting very innocent.

He should have thought about his need for freedom more before he went off and did something he knew he would be prosecuted for.
 
2013-07-15 04:50:17 PM

kindms: Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.

He would spend probably 24 - 36 months in pre-trial solitary confinement. He would get the Bradley Manning treatment

The US Justice system is not something I would be willing to bet my life on.


Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Top Secret Pentagon papers showing that the Government had lied us into the Vietnam war, recently said the exact same thing:

Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don't agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago.

When I surrendered to arrest in Boston, having given out my last copies of the papers the night before, I was released on personal recognizance bond the same day. Later, when my charges were increased from the original three counts to 12, carrying a possible 115-year sentence, my bond was increased to $50,000. But for the whole two years I was under indictment, I was free to speak to the media and at rallies and public lectures. I was, after all, part of a movement against an ongoing war. Helping to end that war was my preeminent concern. I couldn't have done that abroad, and leaving the country never entered my mind.

There is no chance that experience could be reproduced today.

He would almost certainly be confined in total isolation, even longer than the more than eight months Manning suffered during his three years of imprisonment before his trial began recently. The United Nations Special Rapporteur for Torture described Manning's conditions as "cruel, inhuman and degrading." (That realistic prospect, by itself, is grounds for most countries granting Snowden asylum, if they could withstand bullying and bribery from the United States.)

Snowden believes that he has done nothing wrong. I agree wholeheartedly. More than 40 years after my unauthorized disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, such leaks remain the lifeblood of a free press and our republic. One lesson of the Pentagon Papers and Snowden's leaks is simple: secrecy corrupts, just as power corrupts.
 
2013-07-15 04:50:24 PM

4tehsnowflakes: Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.


Fair enough, sorry.  I'm not presuming him guilty, I just think that he is (perhaps, depending on the charges).  We I on the jury, I'd probably say that he broke some law.

Though, if possible, depending on the charges and recommended punishment, I'd try for jury nullification.
 
2013-07-15 04:50:41 PM

FarkedOver: Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?

He should have given it up for many reasons.  The fact that he got the peace prize in the first place cheapens the damn award.


His was benign in comparison to these bozos: The 10 most controversial recipients.

The prize was made irrelevant decades ago.

CSB: my ex-gf's grandpa received one for bioscience.
 
2013-07-15 04:51:11 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.

That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.


1/10
 
2013-07-15 04:51:27 PM

sendtodave: We I


Were I, even.
 
2013-07-15 04:52:24 PM

lohphat: CSB: my ex-gf's grandpa received one for bioscience.


He received a peace prize for bioscience?
 
2013-07-15 04:52:48 PM

ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.


Oh really?

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.htm l">http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press. html
 
2013-07-15 04:52:58 PM

Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.


Unfortunately, reading Fark, I get the impressing finding 12 that wouldn't convict would be more difficult.

Saddest part is I reckon a number of people on both sides would switch sides if the President had a different letter next to his name.
 
2013-07-15 04:54:00 PM

sendtodave: Has anyone mentioned that Obama prematurely received a Nobel Peace Prize?

I hope Snowden gets one. Based on the merits of standing up to the hegemon regarding privacy rights, and also (OK, mostly) for the lulz.


Take a shot, overeducated/underexperienced douchebag who isn't worth taking seriously detected.

And yes, I have used the phrases "hegemony" and "hegemonic" more than I have fair reason to in my life, though at least I had the shame not to use the phrase "hegemon" in a sentence composed in English.
 
2013-07-15 04:54:11 PM

Infobahn: 4tehsnowflakes: sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.

Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.

Fine, he needs to come back and face prosecution for any crimes deemed relevant by the courts.  He is innocent before guilty, but he isn't acting very innocent.

He should have thought about his need for freedom more before he went off and did something he knew he would be prosecuted for.


You're either very naive or willfully ignorant.  He won't get a fair trial.
 
2013-07-15 04:54:56 PM

BullBearMS: More than 40 years after my unauthorized disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, such leaks remain the lifeblood of a free press and our republic. One lesson of the Pentagon Papers and Snowden's leaks is simple: secrecy corrupts, just as power corrupts.


Doesn't this guy understand that 9/11 changed everything?

Because 9/11 changed everything.
 
2013-07-15 04:55:14 PM
Do they give a prize for attempted peace?
 
2013-07-15 04:58:03 PM

King Something: karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.

Which makes it different from any other Fark thread.... how, exactly?


www.quotehd.com

/Football and Mitch are/were awesome.
 
2013-07-15 04:58:04 PM
This thread is like watching Alex Jones fark Ariana Huffington.
 
2013-07-15 04:58:21 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: And yes, I have used the phrases "hegemony" and "hegemonic" more than I have fair reason to in my life, though at least I had the shame not to use the phrase "hegemon" in a sentence composed in English.


Dude.  It's a word.

heg·e·mon (h j-m n) n. One that exercises hegemony.

Feel free to substitute "Unipower," "hyperpower," "lone superpower," or some other shiat to describe the US if you like.

I thought "hegemon" seemed the least douchy.
 
2013-07-15 04:58:45 PM

sendtodave: Has anyone mentioned that Obama prematurely received a Nobel Peace Prize?

I hope Snowden gets one. Based on the merits of standing up to the hegemon regarding privacy rights, and also (OK, mostly) for the lulz.


He is a worthless lowlife.
omework01
When he gave his oath to the service, he apparently crossed his fingers. I am all for a firing squad.

If however, a source was developed not in service and gave detail to the media, I would not have issue with that.

Snowden deserves the chair. He has no ethics, and he chose to give information to the not so pro-American countries. As far as I am concerned... he is a traitor, and deserves that level of respect.

If you word is your bond, he has none......

Personally? I think he was not able\ to hack it as even a low level military person and decided this was his exit opportunity for a better life. And he has no honor.

My opinion is only worth as far as you would throw it... but ten years of service allows me to have a background to have a valid one. And yes, I was in a similar position, but did the right things. Obviously he does not know right from wrong.

Are there individuals at a high level that need exposure? Yes. Is a low level skunk like Snowden a "right" candidate to be the one exposing?

I don't think so.

He is a disgrace to his family and his country.
 
2013-07-15 05:00:43 PM
I like the way the guy whose fark handle evokes fluctuations in the stock market shifted the discussion to whether Clapper committed perjury.  The shills and trolls are still trying to keep the focus on Snowden, the individual, and away from the abortion he helped to expose.  Likelihood of US v. Clapper approximately the same as of 4ts hooking up with Selena Gomez.
 
2013-07-15 05:01:01 PM
urbangirl:

Living in a country that has "police problems" is very different from living in a "militaristic police state".  Engaging in that level of hyperbole makes the speaker sound ridiculous and demeans the experiences of all the people on this planet who really do live that horrible life.

Look, you seem sane, I have no beef with you, you're not the usual Fark toughguy farkwad.  I'm not engaging in hyperbole, nor am I a Matt Stafford RON PAUL sheeple!!1!! kind of guy.  This is really happening and it's been happening for decades. Yes, there are places that are worse, but that doesn't mean we dont have a real and present problem in America today. I would ask what criteria you would use to declare a country a "police state", because those criteria are all here.  If we aren't already, by any definition of the term, then we are close enough to the redline that any responsible American needs to pay more attention.

Highest incarceration rate in the world?
A for profit prison system?
Legislated restrictions on those with criminal records that prevents them finding work or housing? 
Teens in New York who can be stopped by police and physically desipte police having no probably cause whatsoever?
The business owner whose liquor license inspection is done by SWAT teams who first restrain all employees and customers on the premises to execute a regulatory inspection?
The tourist driving through SW Texas who's pulled over because the cop "smelled pot", has his car and cash taken from him by the police before being sent on his way with no restitution?
Citizens peacefully voicing opinions being driven out of public spaces by police using violence?
Not to mention the ever-present possibility that your internet usage could be deemed dangerous and you could be sent to Guantanamo.

All of these things happen to "other people", which is why people dont' get mad.  I'm not a black teen in NYC, I don't drive in TX with large amounts of cash, I'm not a trippy dippy Occupier, I'm not a terrorist.  If the government is allowed to do things to some people because they "deserve it", then those powers will eventually be used against people who don't deserve it.

I remember seeing the first images of police responding to Sandy Hook (I think it was SH, it was some school shooting).  The image with the article I read was of a police officer wearing green camo, full gear in place (including assault rifle, or whatever it's called, I'm sure someone will pop up to tell me how I'm wrong), his name badge reading POLICE, and I thought, "wait a minute.  When I was a kid, they would show us pictures of Russia and all those unfree places, and they always had soldiers everywhere.  We were told they did that to remind people of the power of the state, that it had a numbing effect on the people.  When I was kid  we were told to look for a police officer in uniform when we had a problem and didn't know what to do.  Now the police officer is dressed and armed like a soldier.  When did this start happening in America?"
 
2013-07-15 05:02:14 PM

Griftin Rubes: how the fark is it " Done in one " when commenter onry repeats submitterer


Don't you know any better than to walk in the middle of a circle jerk? With such a pudtastic headline, it's a wonder we didn't see even more. "Duh-huh-Bama is one to talk!" And, since Obama said no such thing, the monkeys look even poo-throwier than ever.
 
2013-07-15 05:02:33 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.

He's a one-man wrecking crew, but he also knows how to PARTY!

There is only one law: HIS law!


ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-07-15 05:03:36 PM

JerkyMeat:
Exposing this wrong doing and criminal activity by these agencies is an obligation to anyone who believes in liberty and freedom.


The rule of law does not apply to the rich and powerful.

It's been widely proven that banks fraudulently forged loans, misrepresented those bad loans as save investments on the international markets.

Not ONE multinational banking executive is in prison. Not one.

Seriously. The wealthy -- especially from intergenerational wealth-- genuinely feel their entitled to it and their power. Our system has replaced the monarchy by blood with of money.
 
2013-07-15 05:04:02 PM

TelemonianAjax: All of these things happen to "other people", which is why people dont' get mad.


Smarted.
 
2013-07-15 05:04:30 PM

Slaxl: Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.

Unfortunately, reading Fark, I get the impressing finding 12 that wouldn't convict would be more difficult.

Saddest part is I reckon a number of people on both sides would switch sides if the President had a different letter next to his name.


Exactly.

Daniel Ellsberg, the whistle blower who leaked the Top Secret Pentagon papers under Nixon has been a HUGE hero to the left for decades.

However, since Obama has once again embraced part of the Bush agenda and restarted Bush's Total Information Awareness program (which Democrats in Congress explicitly shut down under Bush as an obscene attack on the Constitution) we get asshats deciding they must defend spying on Americans and attack whistle blowers.

/because Obama
 
2013-07-15 05:05:01 PM

lohphat: The rule of law does not apply to the rich and powerful.


Then it... isn't a rule of law... OH GOD MY BRAIN JUST BROKE.
 
2013-07-15 05:05:38 PM

Ned Stark: JohnnyC: Ned Stark: sendtodave: So.

Would dismantling the NSA... and the  CIA, FBI... military industrial all that...  Advance world peace?

Would weakening the USA advance world peace, or harm it?

LIBERAL THROW DOWN!

Is a weaker United States good for the rest of the world?

Yes.

One of those guys, eh Ned? You know... instead of wishing your fellow Americans and your country ill will, you could just leave. You know, go to wherever it is you think is better.

So I have to abandon my home because I was born next to a bunch of assholes? Nah, that's OK, I think I'll stick around.


Everybody gets born near at least one of them.
 
2013-07-15 05:06:43 PM

Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.

That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.

1/10


Yes, I'd give your reading ability a 10% too. Now do you have any actual reply, or is being confronted with ideas that challenge your worldview so heinous that denial is your only response?
 
2013-07-15 05:07:33 PM

AeAe: Infobahn: 4tehsnowflakes: sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.

Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.

Fine, he needs to come back and face prosecution for any crimes deemed relevant by the courts.  He is innocent before guilty, but he isn't acting very innocent.

He should have thought about his need for freedom more before he went off and did something he knew he would be prosecuted for.

You're either very naive or willfully ignorant.  He won't get a fair trial.


Neither.  As I stated before, he should have thought about the consequences for his actions.  The ones that are naive or willfully ignorant are those holding up Snowden as a hero.
 
2013-07-15 05:08:57 PM

BullBearMS: Slaxl: Spike Lee's Favorite Farker: Snowden should just come to the US and let the DOJ make its case in court. Good luck finding 12 jurors that will be willing to convict him.

Unfortunately, reading Fark, I get the impressing finding 12 that wouldn't convict would be more difficult.

Saddest part is I reckon a number of people on both sides would switch sides if the President had a different letter next to his name.

Exactly.

Daniel Ellsberg, the whistle blower who leaked the Top Secret Pentagon papers under Nixon has been a HUGE hero to the left for decades.

However, since Obama has once again embraced part of the Bush agenda and restarted Bush's Total Information Awareness program (which Democrats in Congress explicitly shut down under Bush as an obscene attack on the Constitution) we get asshats deciding they must defend spying on Americans and attack whistle blowers.

/because Obama


You have social libertairan liberals, and you have Democrats.  They sometimes overlap.  It's a Venn diagram, really.

Now you know how it feels to be a Goldwater, let-alone conservative.  The party will put you down for weakening them.  Better to just go along with the madness.

Man, Obama is great!
 
2013-07-15 05:09:35 PM

MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.

That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.

1/10

Yes, I'd give your reading ability a 10% too. Now do you have any actual reply, or is being confronted with ideas that challenge your worldview so heinous that denial is your only response?


You have no intelligent way of tying in Lincoln et al to what Snowden did.
 
2013-07-15 05:09:51 PM

CasperImproved: When he gave his oath to the service, he apparently crossed his fingers. I am all for a firing squad.


I feel that way about the oath to protect and defend the Constitution that all the elected members of our Federal Government take.

However, for the guy exposing those elected official's treason to that oath?

Not so much.
 
2013-07-15 05:13:26 PM

Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.

That's correct, I did not. I'm pointing out that your definition of "hero" is seriously flawed.

1/10

Yes, I'd give your reading ability a 10% too. Now do you have any actual reply, or is being confronted with ideas that challenge your worldview so heinous that denial is your only response?

You have no intelligent way of tying in Lincoln et al to what Snowden did.


Which is fine, because I didn't do that. You could go back and read my post if that wasn't clear. How is that denial working out for you?
 
2013-07-15 05:13:44 PM

Uncle Tractor: Griftin Rubes: i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"

It wasn't Obama who did that; it was the US voters. They were the ones who should have been given the Nobel Peace Prize; "...for voting the Republicans out of the White House ..." The US ambassador  could have picked it up on their behalf.

As a norwegian, I had to check to see whether it was April 1st when I heard about Obama getting the peace award. Still, it has been given to far worse people.


Maybe worse, but none more incompetent
 
2013-07-15 05:16:20 PM

sendtodave: I grew up in the poorest neighborhood of the richest county in the country.


What neighborhood, in which country? and why are you in China now, comrade?
 
2013-07-15 05:19:18 PM

Infobahn: AeAe: Infobahn: 4tehsnowflakes: sendtodave: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

Yep.

Presumption of innocence, Dave -- accused or alleged felon.  There are various defenses Snowden could raise in addition to the whistleblower statute.  Re not facing the US justice system, is it cowardly? It's not in the mold of Ellsberg, but how much more is it reasonable to ask him to give up (in addition to never being able to return home or travel to many countries) in return for helping organizations like ACLU and EFF get the documents they need to challenge the surveillance in court?  In that case at least there will be something like an equal playing field, our best lawyers against theirs with the rights of everyone at stake.  In the case of United States v. Snowden, the question whether what he helped expose was illegal would not be the central question and might not even determine whether he himself is found guilty of crimes.

Fine, he needs to come back and face prosecution for any crimes deemed relevant by the courts.  He is innocent before guilty, but he isn't acting very innocent.

He should have thought about his need for freedom more before he went off and did something he knew he would be prosecuted for.

You're either very naive or willfully ignorant.  He won't get a fair trial.

Neither.  As I stated before, he should have thought about the consequences for his actions.  The ones that are naive or willfully ignorant are those holding up Snowden as a hero.


He did, that's why he ran out of reach of the US government.  Do you honestly think he would be able to expose this government's unconstitutional spying if he stayed and got caught?   Be honest.
 
2013-07-15 05:23:44 PM
I'd this real life?

Also rayciss
 
2013-07-15 05:24:24 PM
Libya.
 
2013-07-15 05:26:58 PM

Infobahn: Snowden broke the law.  I don't care what his intentions were.  He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.  There is no gray area, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and now he is running away like a coward.  There is nothing brave about what he has done, he is an attention whore and nothing else.


Sounds like you expected him to just follow orders.
 
2013-07-15 05:28:34 PM

AeAe: He did, that's why he ran out of reach of the US government.  Do you honestly think he would be able to expose this government's unconstitutional spying if he stayed and got caught?   Be honest.


So Snowden is innocent until proven guilty but the government is guilty until proven innocent?
 
2013-07-15 05:31:53 PM

BullBearMS: Infobahn: He is a felon and he needs to man up and take his punishment.

You know who else is a felon?



The head of Obama's spy program, for lying under oath to Congress.

He's right where we know where he is, too.

Why hasn't he been arrested yet?

/This has nothing to do with legal or illegal
//This has everything to do with embarrassing those in power


THIS
 
2013-07-15 05:33:07 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: sendtodave: Griftin Rubes: how the fark is it " Done in one " when commenter onry repeats submitterer

Done in zero?

SNOWDEN FOR PRESIDENT

I hope you are trolling and not just an idiot, there are at least 3 reasons he can't legally run for president


Didn't stop the current one.
 
2013-07-15 05:34:12 PM

AeAe: He did, that's why he ran out of reach of the US government.  Do you honestly think he would be able to expose this government's unconstitutional spying if he stayed and got caught?   Be honest.


Honestly?  He could have released ALL of the information to the press straight out of the gate and acomplished his main goal.  He is just AWing it out to keep himself relevant, and failing.   The only reason he ran was he just didn't want to be locked away.  Period.  Heroes accept the consiquences of their actions, this asshat is a coward.

There are tens of thousands of people who have the same access and know better than to do this.  Snowden hasn't really stated anything we didn't already know, at least suspected.  I have worked with VR software for years, and know one provider that did a lot of the work for the VR system for the NSA.  It wasn't really a secret what it could do, and I wasn't naive to think it wasn't being used on us.

Am I happy about it?  Not really, but we bought this government and we choose not to take action.  If you are really concerned about your privacy, take was has been released and do something about it, but don't waste a moment of your time saving Snowden because he is a lost cause.
 
2013-07-15 05:34:49 PM
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt

This is why fark.com keeps me laughing.
 
2013-07-15 05:35:42 PM

Raging Whore Moans: Does Obama have to give his up because of Benghazi?


Considering he's not the one who slashed the security budget, I don't see why he should.
 
2013-07-15 05:36:17 PM

Infobahn: MrEricSir: Infobahn: If your hero is someone that does something and has to run and hide, then your definition of heroes are pretty messed up.

So you're saying that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, etc. were not heroes? Or are you saying that they wouldn't have been heroes if they had decided to run instead of being hunted down and killed?

You did not just compare Snowden to Gandhi, MLK and Lincoln.  WOW.


How about comparing him to Mandela?
 
2013-07-15 05:37:18 PM

karmaceutical: This thread is like 4 drunk apes trying to fark the same football.


Can always spot a Liberal. Always manages to talk out of their ass.
 
2013-07-15 05:38:35 PM

neversubmit: "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." -Eleanor Roosevelt

This is why fark.com keeps me laughing.


lol, I am going to have to remember that one
 
2013-07-15 05:39:47 PM

Infobahn: Honestly?  He could have released ALL of the information to the press straight out of the gate and acomplished his main goal.  He is just AWing it out to keep himself relevant, and failing.   The only reason he ran was  he just didn't want to be locked away.  Period.  Heroes accept the consiquences of their actions, this asshat is a coward.


No shiat.  I don't blame him for running.

As for this "hero" thing - personally, I don't know how to feel about that.  I do believe he did the right thing.
 
2013-07-15 05:43:11 PM
"It would have been much more peaceful around here if you had never found out about all times I drugged and anally raped you."
 
2013-07-15 05:43:56 PM
It's true that we all knew NSA had the capability to surveil Americans.  There's a new article up at CNET (yes it is that Declan guy) trying to tell the tech companies' side, making the point that they chose to build backdoors for NSA because the alternative was worse.  If they refused, they say, the capability would be imposed on them (engineers from a government agency would show up and install hardware).

Knowing that NSA had the capability was still compatible with believing that it was being used against communications of US persons in a targeted manner.  We knew they could seize almost all our electronic papers and effects; there was no proof that they were in fact doing so to each and every mother's son.
 
2013-07-15 05:54:14 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: AeAe: He did, that's why he ran out of reach of the US government.  Do you honestly think he would be able to expose this government's unconstitutional spying if he stayed and got caught?   Be honest.

So Snowden is innocent until proven guilty but the government is guilty until proven innocent?


Uncommon good sense right there.
 
2013-07-15 05:56:08 PM

4tehsnowflakes: It's true that we all knew NSA had the capability to surveil Americans.  There's a new article up at CNET (yes it is that Declan guy) trying to tell the tech companies' side, making the point that they chose to build backdoors for NSA because the alternative was worse.  If they refused, they say, the capability would be imposed on them (engineers from a government agency would show up and install hardware).

Knowing that NSA had the capability was still compatible with believing that it was being used against communications of US persons in a targeted manner.  We knew they could seize almost all our electronic papers and effects; there was no proof that they were in fact doing so to each and every mother's son.


Leaving aside the fact that they consistently lied and said they would never do such a thing.

Even when testifying under oath before the Congressional committee that was explicitly given oversight authority under US law after the last time they got caught red handed breaking the law and spying on Americans.

They lied to Congress. They lied to the public. They lied under oath.

They deserve to be in prison.
 
2013-07-15 06:02:35 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


No. Why should he be crushed for exposing criminal behavior in the government? The US and its allies are starting to resemble the Soviet Union in some ways and it's about time someone spoke up.
 
2013-07-15 06:08:12 PM
There are literally thousands of academics and  notable public intellectuals and thinkers who have the power to nominate anyone they choose. In the course of a year, you can get legitimate nominees as well as off the wall nominees.

Josef Stalin was nominated in 1945 and 1948 for the Peace Prize. Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/facts/peace/

Just because someone nominated someone for the peace prize means nothing. It doesn't matter unless it was actually considered by the Nobel committee.
 
2013-07-15 06:11:27 PM

RexTalionis: There are literally thousands of academics and  notable public intellectuals and thinkers who have the power to nominate anyone they choose. In the course of a year, you can get legitimate nominees as well as off the wall nominees.

Josef Stalin was nominated in 1945 and 1948 for the Peace Prize. Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/facts/peace/

Just because someone nominated someone for the peace prize means nothing. It doesn't matter unless it was actually considered by the Nobel committee.


I don't feel like clicking the link, can they nominate themselves?
 
2013-07-15 06:14:11 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: RexTalionis: There are literally thousands of academics and  notable public intellectuals and thinkers who have the power to nominate anyone they choose. In the course of a year, you can get legitimate nominees as well as off the wall nominees.

Josef Stalin was nominated in 1945 and 1948 for the Peace Prize. Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/facts/peace/

Just because someone nominated someone for the peace prize means nothing. It doesn't matter unless it was actually considered by the Nobel committee.

I don't feel like clicking the link, can they nominate themselves?


Probably. There's no limitation on who they can nominate.
 
2013-07-15 06:27:15 PM

RexTalionis: osef Stalin was nominated in 1945 and 1948 for the Peace Prize. Adolf Hitler was nominated in 1939.


you know who else nominated edward snowden... wait.
 
2013-07-15 06:32:40 PM

Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't feel like clicking the link, can they nominate themselves?


I think I read a story about one guy who nominated his mother for the peace prize.
 
2013-07-15 06:36:37 PM
There seem to be a lot of "just following orders" advocates here. The true cowards are those who work for the government and don't report unethical or unconstitutional practices.
 
2013-07-15 07:03:40 PM

Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


Really, Obama and his fellow travelers should start their own wars to monger.
 
2013-07-15 07:04:03 PM
Didn't take them long to Godwin TFA....
 
2013-07-15 07:12:12 PM
The awards these nameless faceless scanditards hand out are real important to me so I'm gonna keep an eye on this one.
 
2013-07-15 07:24:52 PM
LoL, for proper use of ironic tag.
 
2013-07-15 07:36:56 PM
Okay, at this point the Nobel committee is just trolling us.
 
2013-07-15 07:42:23 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


I don't want him crushed
what has he revealed that was not already known ?
this seems like more of a smokescreen than the one that would be thrown on April 20th in SanFrancisco

// out to check the worm farm is ready for fertilising the compost to plant kale in my home made greenhouse, then I might go hug a tree, ensure there are no guns on my property and lubricate my kayak rudders... as one does on a monday night
 
2013-07-15 07:45:11 PM

Griftin Rubes: i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


did he stop or extend the wars they started ?
has he started (or engaged in) any since ?

Partisan wanks think this world is "them and us" it is not really, it is for the truly owned but not for those that dont live in that evironment (hint Im not American, my grandfather was, my daughter is, I will NEVER be)
 
2013-07-15 07:50:29 PM
Pretty sure this Slartibart is the same as MaxPooper, a troll I engaged in an earlier related thread.  Similar style.  2/10
 
2013-07-15 08:17:47 PM

Joe Blowme: Its one thing to bring the spying to the attention of the people (good)... its entirely different to then give stolen files and shiat to our enemys (bad)


I don't have many enemies. He found that kid who suckerpunched me in 3rd grade for a spot on the bleachers?
 
2013-07-15 09:54:19 PM

sendtodave: Crotchrocket Slim: And yes, I have used the phrases "hegemony" and "hegemonic" more than I have fair reason to in my life, though at least I had the shame not to use the phrase "hegemon" in a sentence composed in English.

Dude.  It's a word.


That only assholes who have spent way too much time in academia and very little time interacting with actual human beings in the real world. I say this... as the guy who admitted to being "that guy" in the past in my Boobies.

heg·e·mon (h j-m n) n. One that exercises hegemony.

Feel free to substitute "Unipower," "hyperpower," "lone superpower," or some other shiat to describe the US if you like.

I thought "hegemon" seemed the least douchy.


DIG YOUR GRAVE FASTER RECENT COLLEGE FRESHMAN

Conversely you might want to check above your head for the point of the post that initiated me posting in this thread.
 
2013-07-15 10:53:01 PM
case.ntu.edu.tw

Someone guilty of giving updated technology to the Chinese Communists.

STILL not as bad as the US Pentagon procurement officers who gave the chip technology for US smart bombs and drones to Chinese firms (ALL such chips used to be Chinese-made), or the State Dept. procurement people who contracted for DoS desktops from the Chinese.

/it's only bad if the little people do it, or they're too obvious about it, and embarrass their bosses.
 
2013-07-15 11:07:14 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


I'm with you. He put people at risk by exposing this program which is far less intrusive than people are claiming. It's akin to looking at the outside of your envelopes, but the naysayers want you to believe they're really opening it up and reading (listening) to everything inside. He's also a hypocrite for claiming to be a fighter for democracy and transparency and then fleeing to China and Russia.

Then again, I don't look to Fark for much political nuance. I once said I was against the Iraq war but that the military was doing good work there and should be commended for the various construction projects they've performed or helped with. I was almost immediately accused of being a racist who supported the war because I wanted to see as many brown people killed as possible. This was a sentiment that was repeated and "THIS'd" many times over.

On the Snowden issue, I've similarly been accused of being both a "Nazi" and a Stalinist who wants to implement thought control and detention camps for anyone who disagrees with me. Keep on airing your opinion and you'll be flooded with that crap too.
 
2013-07-15 11:09:27 PM

sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.


Really? Dude's name is right above you.
 
2013-07-15 11:20:25 PM

Wayne 985: Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.

I'm with you. He put people at risk by exposing this program which is far less intrusive than people are claiming. It's akin to looking at the outside of your envelopes, but the naysayers want you to believe they're really opening it up and reading (listening) to everything inside. He's also a hypocrite for claiming to be a fighter for democracy and transparency and then fleeing to China and Russia.

Then again, I don't look to Fark for much political nuance. I once said I was against the Iraq war but that the military was doing good work there and should be commended for the various construction projects they've performed or helped with. I was almost immediately accused of being a racist who supported the war because I wanted to see as many brown people killed as possible. This was a sentiment that was repeated and "THIS'd" many times over.

On the Snowden issue, I've similarly been accused of being both a "Nazi" and a Stalinist who wants to implement thought control and detention camps for anyone who disagrees with me. Keep on airing your opinion and you'll be flooded with that crap too.


You two should form a club.
 
2013-07-15 11:32:50 PM

Wayne 985: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.

Really? Dude's name is right above you.


Eh, watevher.
 
2013-07-15 11:41:03 PM
 
2013-07-15 11:52:05 PM

sendtodave: Wayne 985: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.

Really? Dude's name is right above you.

Eh, watevher.


I'll confess I doublechecked the spelling and originally spelled it that way, until I decided it didn't look right.
 
2013-07-15 11:55:08 PM

WeenerGord: A Dark Evil Omen: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.

He's a one-man wrecking crew, but he also knows how to PARTY!

There is only one law: HIS law!

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 200x300]


Give me a steak, medium rare!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfvLcozLwtE For the few here that don't know, a free education.
 
2013-07-16 12:15:09 AM
Look how peaceful the President looks in this picture:

cache.ohinternet.com
 
2013-07-16 12:21:09 AM
No particular comment to add, just wanted to mark the page for later.

/carry on
 
2013-07-16 12:34:53 AM

Fano: WeenerGord: A Dark Evil Omen: sendtodave: qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.

Eh.  Not many people know who gets the Peace Prize award.

Ghandi got the Ghandi award.  It is instantly recognizable, and allows you to cut to the front of the line at downtown clubs.

He's a one-man wrecking crew, but he also knows how to PARTY!

There is only one law: HIS law!

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 200x300]

Give me a steak, medium rare!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfvLcozLwtE For the few here that don't know, a free education.



Hey! Baldy!

*flips table*
 
2013-07-16 01:38:56 AM
And it should go without saying that Snowden is no "hero," he is a dipshiat who threw away his life, his career and his act of whistleblowing put the entire security system at risk.

He shouldn't be receiving a Peace Prize.
 
2013-07-16 02:08:18 AM

whidbey: his act of whistleblowing put the entire security system at risk.


At risk of what? Staying within the bounds proscribed by the Constitution?
 
2013-07-16 02:13:45 AM

BullBearMS: CasperImproved: When he gave his oath to the service, he apparently crossed his fingers. I am all for a firing squad.

I feel that way about the oath to protect and defend the Constitution that all the elected members of our Federal Government take.

However, for the guy exposing those elected official's treason to that oath?

Not so much.


I don't have issue with your view. However, there is a way for him to have done "the right thing". if nothing else, he could have brought his concerns to the AG.

But to bring what he knows to the public forum?

He is a traitor.
 
2013-07-16 02:33:10 AM

WeenerGord: Kittypie070: Gods damn Sweebies.

Hey they are not all bad

[data.whicdn.com image 240x200]


Oh, I know. :D

There's quite a rivalry, but old history is forgiven and it's all in good clean dirty fun.

Haven't seen ya for a while Weener, whassup?
 
2013-07-16 02:38:18 AM

CasperImproved: I don't have issue with your view. However, there is a way for him to have done "the right thing". if nothing else, he could have brought his concerns to the AG.


Multiple NSA whistleblowers have "gone through the proper channels".

Several of them got their homes invaded by gun toting Feds as a "thank you for doing the right thing" gift.

For instance, there are these three NSA whistle blowers.

When a National Security Agency contractor revealed top-secret details this month on the government's collection of Americans' phone and Internet records, one select group of intelligence veterans breathed a sigh of relief.

Thomas Drake, William Binney and J. Kirk Wiebe belong to a select fraternity: the NSA officials who paved the way.

For years, the three whistle-blowers had told anyone who would listen that the NSA collects huge swaths of communications data from U.S. citizens. They had spent decades in the top ranks of the agency, designing and managing the very data-collection systems they say have been turned against Americans. When they became convinced that fundamental constitutional rights were being violated, they complained first to their superiors, then to federal investigators, congressional oversight committees and, finally, to the news media.

To the intelligence community, the trio are villains who compromised what the government classifies as some of its most secret, crucial and successful initiatives. They have been investigated as criminals and forced to give up careers, reputations and friendships built over a lifetime.

Today, they feel vindicated.

They say the documents leaked by Edward Snowden, the 29-year-old former NSA contractor who worked as a systems administrator, proves their claims of sweeping government surveillance of millions of Americans not suspected of any wrongdoing. They say those revelations only hint at the programs' reach.


The video interview with the three of them should be a must watch.

Q: Did Edward Snowden do the right thing in going public?

William Binney: We tried to stay for the better part of seven years inside the government trying to get the government to recognize the unconstitutional, illegal activity that they were doing and openly admit that and devise certain ways that would be constitutionally and legally acceptable to achieve the ends they were really after. And that just failed totally because no one in Congress or - we couldn't get anybody in the courts, and certainly the Department of Justice and inspector general's office didn't pay any attention to it. And all of the efforts we made just produced no change whatsoever. All it did was continue to get worse and expand.

Q: So Snowden did the right thing?

Binney: Yes, I think he did.
 
2013-07-16 03:14:00 AM

BullBearMS: ZoeNekros: Kangaroo_Ralph: ZoeNekros: This whole idea the Obama should not have won the prize simply because he had just started his presidency is stupid. People do not win the Nobel Prize for presidenting. They get them for being vocal and influential voices for noble causes (often by just giving speeches or writing essays). He was that before he was elected. What he does as president is beside the point. You might think that since he's done things that should disqualify him from being awarded the prize, but nominations don't take future actions into account. If you think they should, take it up with the committee, and give them access to your time machine.

So words rather than deeds?

Words and/or deeds. Either is sufficient.

/and I'm only saying that deeds after the award are irrelevant

Ummm. No.

When the deeds are the direct opposite of the words, they are not irrelevant at all.


Oh good, so we have a volunteer with a time-machine after all.

/Or just a nitwit with abysmal reading comprehension
 
2013-07-16 03:31:47 AM
Give Snowden the Nobe Peace Prize?  I honestly think that's a great idea!  You have my support and approval!
i40.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-16 03:40:02 AM
Snowden did not set world peace back decades. The lying, constitution ignoring, illegally spying United States government is to blame here.

If there wasn't a problem, nothing would have been exposed.
 
2013-07-16 03:52:55 AM

qorkfiend: Fano: ...and Gandhi never got one.

They don't award it posthumously, and I'm not surprised a bunch of Europeans in the late 1940s weren't too keen on giving the award to someone who thought India shouldn't be involved in WWII, however good his reasons were.


Where did you get this that Gandhi thought India shouldn't participate in WWII? He is on record as saying that if a war could be justified, it would be the one against Nazi Germany. In fact, Indian soldiers fought with the British and Australians against Rommel with his blessing.
 
2013-07-16 07:38:55 AM

Griftin Rubes: WelldeadLink: The Obama administration has experience with premature Nobel Peace Prize awards.

i would hardly call forcing the war mongering Republicans out of the white house "premature"


For all the Republicans 'war mongering'....more US Soldiers have died on Obama's watch then during all 3 Bush terms (both Sr. and Jr.). Democrats don't give 2 shiats about US Soldiers. Ended the War....'maybe', killed more US Soldiers than both Bushes...without a doubt.
 
2013-07-16 09:13:21 AM

CasperImproved: BullBearMS: CasperImproved: When he gave his oath to the service, he apparently crossed his fingers. I am all for a firing squad.

I feel that way about the oath to protect and defend the Constitution that all the elected members of our Federal Government take.

However, for the guy exposing those elected official's treason to that oath?

Not so much.

I don't have issue with your view. However, there is a way for him to have done "the right thing". if nothing else, he could have brought his concerns to the AG.

But to bring what he knows to the public forum?

He is a traitor.


The AG?  Holder?  Are you farking kidding me?
 
2013-07-16 09:16:21 AM

SBinRR: skinink: Snowden will be Time Magazine's Person of the Year.

He will be a rare two time winner then, since he first won it back in 2006.


2002 as well, it would seem.
 
2013-07-16 10:17:56 AM
actually the USA has set world peace back by decades- Snowden only pointed it out.
 
2013-07-16 10:35:52 AM
Bork bork bork!

/that is all
 
2013-07-16 11:13:18 AM

Kittypie070: WeenerGord: Kittypie070: Gods damn Sweebies.

Hey they are not all bad

[data.whicdn.com image 240x200]

Oh, I know. :D

There's quite a rivalry, but old history is forgiven and it's all in good clean dirty fun.

Haven't seen ya for a while Weener, whassup?



Hi Pie!

Made it back to Finland yet? Wishing you all the best :D
 
2013-07-16 01:58:07 PM

sendtodave: This makes sense, I think.  He should get the prize.

I mean, sure, Snowden is a lying, self serving douche that didn't tell anyone who was paying any attention at all anything they didn't already know.  He just hinted that we should fundamentally change the system, when anyone knows that real change is impossible.  He played us for fools just for his own ego trip.

Wait, did I say Snowden?

I meant the other guy.



I wish you were a Conservative Republican, but i know it's not true :(

It would have been the first funny thing they've ever said. I guess nothing changes.
 
2013-07-16 03:01:26 PM

Infobahn: Any other Liberals, like myself, who want to crush Snowden?  I am conflicted if I should feel conflicted.  I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.  I have other thoughts I will keep to myself.

I am going to Whole Foods now and pay too much for Kale.


As a Liberal, wouldn't you call this guy a hero?  I fail to see the conflict...
 
2013-07-17 12:38:03 AM

Infobahn: I think this pinhead should see a courtroom (et al), soon.


I keep wanting to think what Snowden did equates to the Pentagon Papers, but the math just isn't there.

He's a shiathead.
 
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