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(Outside The Redzone)   If the Miami Marlins lose than 100 games this season, Jeffrey Loria goes from being a stupid a**hole to just an a**hole   (outsidetheredzone.com) divider line 47
    More: Florida, Jeffrey Loria, Marlins, Miami, home games, Logan Morrison, National League East, Heath Bell, All-Star break  
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1457 clicks; posted to Sports » on 15 Jul 2013 at 12:46 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-15 12:49:34 PM  
More than? Less than?
> <
 
2013-07-15 12:57:26 PM  
Stupid headline is stupid.
 
2013-07-15 12:57:56 PM  
Should we be taking Florida submissions from Florida residents?

/I think not
 
2013-07-15 12:58:10 PM  
They're going to lose the World Series to the Cubs in 2 years.
 
2013-07-15 12:58:36 PM  
Jeffrey Loria is an asshole. period.
 
2013-07-15 01:06:35 PM  
Loria is an asshole, but again, you can thank MLB as a whole for instituting an egregiously generous revenue-sharing platform that apparently doesn't have the penalties or any conditions in place for cockbag owners who blatantly loot the system for their own pockets.

Look, if you can scramble together some local business owners and form an ownership group to buy an existing MLB team, just know you're getting $20+mil every season handed to you regardless of gate and local TV revenue, etc.
 
2013-07-15 01:07:58 PM  

Dinobot: Jeffrey Loria is an asshole. period.


"[$current_Marlins_owner] is an asshole" has been true since 1993.

// "Wait, we won something? SELL EVERYONE!"
 
2013-07-15 01:11:07 PM  

Killer Cars: Loria is an asshole, but again, you can thank MLB as a whole for instituting an egregiously generous revenue-sharing platform that apparently doesn't have the penalties or any conditions in place for cockbag owners who blatantly loot the system for their own pockets.

Look, if you can scramble together some local business owners and form an ownership group to buy an existing MLB team, just know you're getting $20+mil every season handed to you regardless of gate and local TV revenue, etc.


IIRC, didn't MLB establish a salary floor or they were thinking about it?
 
2013-07-15 01:14:40 PM  

Rwa2play: IIRC, didn't MLB establish a salary floor or they were thinking about it?


They haven't yet, to my knowledge.
 
2013-07-15 01:20:38 PM  

Killer Cars: Rwa2play: IIRC, didn't MLB establish a salary floor or they were thinking about it?

They haven't yet, to my knowledge.


Ok; I would think that would kill people like Loria into just junking their team.  Set a $40 Million salary floor and they'll get the message.
 
2013-07-15 01:40:51 PM  

Rwa2play: IIRC, didn't MLB establish a salary floor or they were thinking about it?


No, but the Marlins were the clear target of something MLB said a few years ago, basically "you better be able to show that the revenue sharing money you get is being spent on baseball-related stuff like salaries, draft bonuses, etc or else"
 
2013-07-15 01:49:22 PM  

Crewmannumber6: They're going to lose the World Series to the Cubs in 2 years.


I, well, umm, what?!?

(both NL teams, marlins will be terrible for at least the next 3-4 years and the Cubs?)
 
2013-07-15 01:51:26 PM  

FuLinHyu: Crewmannumber6: They're going to lose the World Series to the Cubs in 2 years.

I, well, umm, what?!?

(both NL teams, marlins will be terrible for at least the next 3-4 years and the Cubs?)


Back to the Future 2 reference
 
2013-07-15 01:54:44 PM  
Subby at least one word in that sentence.

It accidentally the whole thing.
 
2013-07-15 02:02:05 PM  
I thought they were trying to move the Cleveland Indians to Miami by losing.  I only have one solution "win the whole F*kin thing."  Wild thing I think I love you!
 
2013-07-15 02:05:01 PM  
"If the Miami Marlins lose than 100 games this season, Jeffrey Loria goes from being a stupid a**hole to just an a**hole"

tytempletonart.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-15 02:09:57 PM  

The Bestest: FuLinHyu: Crewmannumber6: They're going to lose the World Series to the Cubs in 2 years.

I, well, umm, what?!?

(both NL teams, marlins will be terrible for at least the next 3-4 years and the Cubs?)

Back to the Future 2 reference


Okay, thanks, my brain can stop hurting now.
 
2013-07-15 02:13:28 PM  
If subby gets than 1 more greenlight subby gets promoted from illiterate to stupid illiterate
 
2013-07-15 02:16:41 PM  
Why the hell is he allowed to even own a team?

/bitter Expos fan.
 
2013-07-15 02:24:37 PM  
Hey, lets build a stadium where the orange bowl failed with minimal parking then lets take a baseball owners word on him fielding a competitive team despite past evidence of the contrary and him selling out whole cities and teams just to get a buck.

Okay Jeffrey, we will just make you promise. No concrete requirements.

Miami Dade you so cray.
 
2013-07-15 02:26:53 PM  

Killer Cars: Rwa2play: IIRC, didn't MLB establish a salary floor or they were thinking about it?

They haven't yet, to my knowledge.


There is a minimum salary and a minimum team size, so effectively there is a very, very low salary minimum. Works out to about $12.5 million I think.
 
2013-07-15 02:29:57 PM  

The Bestest: FuLinHyu: Crewmannumber6: They're going to lose the World Series to the Cubs in 2 years.

I, well, umm, what?!?

(both NL teams, marlins will be terrible for at least the next 3-4 years and the Cubs?)

Back to the Future 2 reference


MLB was close to it making sense, but they decided to shift Houston to the AL instead.  DAMN YOU BUD SELIG!
 
2013-07-15 02:37:39 PM  
Does WAR confuse you?  If so, look at the Miami Marlins' offense.  If you total up their roster's offensive production, they have 0.0 Wins Above Replacement.  They're last in the NL in every meaningful offensive statistic, which isn't too hard when you have 6 regulars with OBPs under .300, and you started Greg Frickin' Dobbs at cleanup 16 times.

What this tells you is that if the Marlins fired all their hitters and offered league-minimum contracts to random waiver-wire unemployed baseball players and perpetual minor leaguers, they'd have about the same offensive production.

They would be a historically abysmal team, but their pitching is exactly league-average when you account for their park.  (Team ERA+ of 100, raw ERA of 3.87 vs. league raw ERA of 3.77.)  This remains true even after they've traded Nolasco (personal ERA+ of 100) for a bag of baseballs to be named later.
 
2013-07-15 02:53:41 PM  
The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.
 
2013-07-15 03:00:36 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.


The Jays are underperforming in the toughest division in baseball. The Marlins are performing pretty much as-expected in a weaker division.
 
2013-07-15 03:07:48 PM  
Look on the bright side, the Marlins are on a clip to win 61 games this season. See the silver lining?
 
2013-07-15 03:09:41 PM  

The Bestest: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

The Jays are underperforming in the toughest division in baseball. The Marlins are performing pretty much as-expected in a weaker division.


"Let's get all those guys from that team that sucked last year!" was never a smart plan.
 
2013-07-15 03:22:59 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary.


I hope you're not a gambling man.

Jays: 45-49 (.479).  Just replaced their middle infield's offensive black hole with Jose Reyes.  Have reasonable 2014 outlook, so not going to dump guys too easily.
Marlins: 35-58 (.376).  Just dealt Ricky Nolasco for guys who will have no impact in 2013.  Or probably ever.  Likely to dump more players before the trade deadline.

Jays are a good bet to win 15 or more games than the Marlins.
 
2013-07-15 03:24:01 PM  
And what if they lose exactly 100 games, huh?
 
2013-07-15 03:27:34 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.


And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....
 
2013-07-15 03:44:58 PM  

red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....


Jeffrey Loria is a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. He convinced MLB to allow him to salt the earth in an established market in Montreal and buy his team off him so that he could buy another team. He then convinced Miami to build a stadium for him. Dude's forgotten more about being a con artist than most people ever knew.

And of course, for maximum trolling, he's got a World Series title as well.
 
2013-07-15 03:56:03 PM  

Killer Cars: Loria is an asshole, but again, you can thank MLB as a whole for instituting an egregiously generous revenue-sharing platform that apparently doesn't have the penalties or any conditions in place for cockbag owners who blatantly loot the system for their own pockets.


A perfect example of what capitalists think socialism is.
 
2013-07-15 04:00:41 PM  

Cagey B: red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....

Jeffrey Loria is a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. He convinced MLB to allow him to salt the earth in an established market in Montreal and buy his team off him so that he could buy another team. He then convinced Miami to build a stadium for him. Dude's forgotten more about being a con artist than most people ever knew.

And of course, for maximum trolling, he's got a World Series title as well.


You misunderstand me if you believe I think the man is stupid. I am fully aware of his many sleazy accomplishments. I think he may be reaching the end of his career though. When MLB went looking into abuses of revenue sharing the Marlins were the only team they warned to shape up. Now the SEC is investigating the Marlins and their stadium deals. It wouldn't surprise me if Loria ends up serving time in prison over some shady deal or another.
 
2013-07-15 04:16:38 PM  

red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....


What if we just consider (# wins) / (total salary) and call it Owner Efficiency Ratio?  I'm sure somebody must have worked the statistics out, this is baseball after all.
 
2013-07-15 04:19:07 PM  

ArkPanda: red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....

What if we just consider (# wins) / (total salary) and call it Owner Efficiency Ratio?  I'm sure somebody must have worked the statistics out, this is baseball after all.


Eh.  The jump in salary is too great to do it that way.  If an owner spends $175 million and consistently fields one of the best teams in baseball, he is doing a good job.
 
2013-07-15 04:27:16 PM  

ArkPanda: red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....

What if we just consider (# wins) / (total salary) and call it Owner Efficiency Ratio?  I'm sure somebody must have worked the statistics out, this is baseball after all.


Maury Brown used to do this over at bizofbaseball.com but I haven't seen him do it since the 2010 season. He has written a lot about the Marlins, because of their business, ahem, practices. Here is a linky to a list of his articles:  http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=categor y&id=26&Itemid=39">http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_ content&view=categor y&id=26&Itemid=39
 
2013-07-15 04:34:14 PM  
Headline needs fixing:

"If the Miami Marlins lose more than 100 games this season, Jeffrey Loria goes from being a stupid a**hole to just an a**hole few people will notice due to poor attendance."
 
2013-07-15 05:24:29 PM  

ArkPanda: red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....

What if we just consider (# wins) / (total salary) and call it Owner Efficiency Ratio?  I'm sure somebody must have worked the statistics out, this is baseball after all.


What you'd find is that even if you field a 25-man roster for the league minimum (about $10M, barely below the Marlins' current commitments), you'd probably still win about 40-50 games.  Remember that for the minimum, you can basically sign any AAA guy who has no chance of making it to the majors in another system.  Or any of the "one more year" veterans who wash out of spring training and are sitting on their couches eating Cheetos.  The gap in skill is significant, but it's not like you're going to field random high school students.  Plus, you're an MLB team, so you get draft picks who often develop into better players than that, but are still cost controlled.

That strategy works out to at least 4 wins per $M spent.  So you'll clobber any team that spends even the league median (~$90M in 2013), because they can't win 360 games.  By your metric, Loria is the best owner in baseball.

Wins get more expensive as you need to improve further.  This is partially because of the game's economics (the best players command disproportionately high salaries because they are often the only available players at that level), but also because it's harder to improve on a team that is already pretty good.  If the Marlins signed a $10M/year free agent tomorrow, he'd probably replace someone horrible.  If the Red Sox did that, he's probably taking away PAs from a pretty good player, and the gap in performance wouldn't be so big.

But let's say you set up a sliding scale of some kind.  You still have the problem that you're partially grading the ownership from 6-10 years ago.  If you have terrible scouting, pick bad guys in drafts, and trade your best prospects for "right now" guys, you're eventually going to suck.  Teams change key personnel (owners, GMs, etc.) often enough that many have an excuse there.  For example, I think Houston's ownership is doing the right thing right now, but everyone knew the 2013 team will be terrible because of the mistakes made in preceding years.

It's a hard problem.  It's illustrative to compare teams with their peers ($104M for the Cubs, $107M for the Reds), but it's not as simple as "owners = results".
 
2013-07-15 05:37:28 PM  

reddsharkk: Hey, lets build a stadium where the orange bowl failed with minimal parking then lets take a baseball owners word on him fielding a competitive team despite past evidence of the contrary and him selling out whole cities and teams just to get a buck.

Okay Jeffrey, we will just make you promise. No concrete requirements.

Miami Dade you so cray.


The Orange Bowl didn't "fail" per se. The U decided that the stadium was far to decrepit to use any longer, and soon after they moved to Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Landshark/Dolphin/Sun Life Stadium...they began to not be that dominant.

U games at Sun Life are pathetic affairs.

I used to love going to the old OB for Canes games when I was a kid.

Dade county farked up by not renovating it.
 
2013-07-15 05:52:27 PM  

Killer Cars: Loria is an asshole, but again, you can thank MLB as a whole for instituting an egregiously generous revenue-sharing platform that apparently doesn't have the penalties or any conditions in place for cockbag owners who blatantly loot the system for their own pockets.

Look, if you can scramble together some local business owners and form an ownership group to buy an existing MLB team, just know you're getting $20+mil every season handed to you regardless of gate and local TV revenue, etc.


Pretty sure it is a lot more than 20 mil.  More like 80.
 
2013-07-15 05:53:24 PM  
was at the new stadium last month.  there were about 50 different kids groups.  i had to plug my ears whenever one of the enormous and beautiful 14 screens read, "SHOUUUUTTTTTT."

there were two home runs hit, though, and i got to see that absolutely ridiculous farking thing in left-center light up like a poseidon benzo withdrawal nightmare.

it was fun.
 
2013-07-15 05:59:24 PM  

Crewmannumber6: They're going to lose the World Series to the Cubs in 2 years.


Yeah I saw it on TV too.
 
2013-07-15 06:15:16 PM  

chimp_ninja: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary.

I hope you're not a gambling man.

Jays: 45-49 (.479).  Just replaced their middle infield's offensive black hole with Jose Reyes.  Have reasonable 2014 outlook, so not going to dump guys too easily.
Marlins: 35-58 (.376).  Just dealt Ricky Nolasco for guys who will have no impact in 2013.  Or probably ever.  Likely to dump more players before the trade deadline.

Jays are a good bet to win 15 or more games than the Marlins.


The one you want to compare to is the White Sox, who are expensive, bad and will likely trade some guys.  The Marlins don't really have much else to trade, while you could potentially see the Sox unload Crain (likely if he's healthy), Peavy, Rios, and maybe Alexei Ramirez, after already unloading Thornton.  Their WAR of offensive guys is worse than the Marlins due to them being slightly better hitters but wretched in the field, although I do have some question there as de Aza's numbers seem wonky and Rios is at worst an average right fielder, and they account for a lot of their negative on BRef; Dunn blows in the field and no one's going to dispute that one.
 
2013-07-15 10:36:57 PM  

ArkPanda: red5ish: Mambo Bananapatch: The Jays suck this year. The Marlins' record isn't going to be that much worse than the Jays', for a fraction of the salary. An asshole, perhaps, but not a dumb asshole.

And if the point of professional baseball was to assemble a team that sucks Loria would be considered a smart and efficient owner. But wait, there's more....

What if we just consider (# wins) / (total salary) and call it Owner Efficiency Ratio?  I'm sure somebody must have worked the statistics out, this is baseball after all.


As a fan, I care about two things:

1) How good is the team?
2) How cheap can I get a ticket?

Honestly, to me the best owner is one whose team is in the hunt every year, that plays meaningful games late in the year, that challenges for the division lead all year, that makes playoffs and is a threat in the playoffs while allowing me to get a reasonably priced ticket to the game.
 
2013-07-15 10:53:01 PM  

meanmutton: As a fan, I care about two things:

1) How good is the team?
2) How cheap can I get a ticket?

Honestly, to me the best owner is one whose team is in the hunt every year, that plays meaningful games late in the year, that challenges for the division lead all year, that makes playoffs and is a threat in the playoffs while allowing me to get a reasonably priced ticket to the game.


You would love the Rays.  Seats within a few rows of the dugout can frequently be had for <$20, and upper deck (really mezzanine at any other stadium) seats are often $6-8, including StubHub fees.  Most of the corporate season ticket holders don't even bother to sell their unused tickets, so weekday games with "official attendance" of 10,000 really have about four or five thousand butts in seats.  You can often buy a $6 ticket and with few exceptions, sit wherever you want.  It's sad, but they do play great and entertaining baseball.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:41 PM  
Here's proof that the Rays have the cheapest tickets in baseball by a factor of 10.  Check this out from the 2011 playoffs:

img46.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-16 11:42:40 AM  

chi_tino: You would love the Rays.  Seats within a few rows of the dugout can frequently be had for <$20, and upper deck (really mezzanine at any other stadium) seats are often $6-8, including StubHub fees.  Most of the corporate season ticket holders don't even bother to sell their unused tickets, so weekday games with "official attendance" of 10,000 really have about four or five thousand butts in seats.  You can often buy a $6 ticket and with few exceptions, sit wherever you want.  It's sad, but they do play great and entertaining baseball.


CSB: 10 years ago I was working for a company that had an office in Clearwater. When I would get sent down there for business a week at a stretch I would head over to the Trop as much as possible. I had something like $50 allotted to me as a daily dinner expense so I would pay $6 to get into the park and then go straight to the "Batters' Eye" restaurant in CF. They had patio seating right up against the outfield wall so I'd sit there and watch the game, eat dinner, and drink beer on the company dime.
 
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