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(Yahoo)   Authorities report widespread not rioting all over the country in the wake of the Zimmerman trial verdict, as many as zero people have been killed or injured in the lack of violence so far   (gma.yahoo.com) divider line 872
    More: Followup, KABC-TV, WABC-TV, marchers, Manhattan neighborhoods, acquittals, verdicts, riots, violence  
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2975 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2013 at 10:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 05:08:17 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Who, in your mind, fits the description of being a black man railroaded by a systematic politically-motivated attack in an attempt to frame him for a crime he did not commit?

I mean, OJ was probably railroaded for the hotel break-in in Vegas, but he also probably got away with murder. Chris Dorner? But he seemed to have a lot of white supporters here, and that was primarily a cop-cop thing. Mumia Abu-Jamal? There was no controversy that he shot Faulkner, and his case is primarily about his "sovereign citizen"-like delusions. So what case comes to mind, specifically, for you?


Fair question. Most of the cases are not high profile. And its not just people who were "wrongly convicted". Its also about people who are punished more severely for commiting crimes than white defendents


The two problems for extending that argument to this case:

1. Had Trayvon been white 17 year-old, Trevor Martin, under otherwise identical circumstances, George Zimmerman would have been treated as a "brown" Hispanic, similar to all the other 'white hispanics' in the illegal immigration threads.
2. Your argument loses its emotional appeal when it's fundamentally a call to lynch an innocent man. Like the Duke Lacrosse Rape case, the Trayvon Martin case was not the bellwether you were looking for -- and your case looks all the worse for trying to make it something it's not. In a perfect world, hispanics should be sympathetic to your plight -- they find themselves in similar legal positions, too. But you've now alienated that demographic, for no benefit to yours, and for decrease sympathy from whites. It's lose-lose-lose.

And realize how this comes off -- you profess anger at how black people get a bum deal, how you're disproportionately adjudged on the basis of your race. You then end up touting the false prosecution of an innocent man (of a different race), purely on racial grounds -- driven by a black media presence, black attorneys, black politicians, and a black prosecutor.

You lose the moral high ground, and appear to be no different than your enemies, when given similar opportunities. You're not pure, just powerless. And you gave this up in return for nothing at all.
 
2013-07-15 05:10:04 PM  

Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.


I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?
 
2013-07-15 05:12:54 PM  

Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?


No you cannot legally mace him. Congratulations you just committed either assault or aggravated assault, depending on how mean the DA is.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/viol en t-crime/washington-dc-assault-battery-laws
 
2013-07-15 05:15:00 PM  

Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?


No, your fear is not unreasonable.  Neither are the charging that will be brought against you by your victim.
 
2013-07-15 05:17:06 PM  

Deucednuisance: MarkEC: Yep, and in your logic you are putting the cart before the horse, claiming that TM was in fear for his life

Wait, I did what, now?

I made no assertion that that happened, I'm just saying that those who are saying it's impossible are wrong.


You claimed TM could have been justified in his pummeling because he might have known that GZ was armed. Then used GZ's statement that TM discovered his gun and tried to grab it as proof that TM could have known that GZ was armed the entire time he was pummeling him and that could have justified the pummeling? Sorry, but I find that absurd.
 
2013-07-15 05:18:12 PM  

omeganuepsilon: CPennypacker: I THINK he started the fight based on how the scenario started and who was involved. Just like you THINK Zimmerman is telling the truth about what happened based on corroborating evidence and witness testimony.

See, now you're profiling based on prejudice. We're using evidence and further information to make a reasonable decision.

/the strike was for redundancy or Begging the Question


I don't mean how the fight started, I mean how the whole thing started, 911 call etc
 
2013-07-15 05:18:47 PM  

Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?


You do not get to mace someone for that. It's assault.

I would hope that you would be charged and tried accordingly.
 
2013-07-15 05:20:37 PM  

MarkEC: You claimed TM could have been justified in his pummeling because he might have known that GZ was armed. Then used GZ's statement that TM discovered his gun and tried to grab it as proof that TM could have known that GZ was armed the entire time he was pummeling him and that could have justified the pummeling? Sorry, but I find that absurd.


Even more blatantly stupid was when BDLR suggested that Martin was afraid of Zimmerman because Martin was being followed by an armed man, and then within the same closing argument said it's not possible for Martin to have reached for or tried to grab Zimmerman's gun because it was concealed in an inside the waistband holster on Zimmerman's hip and was a small firearm, therefore Martin couldn't have seen it.
 
2013-07-15 05:20:38 PM  

heili skrimsli: Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?

You do not get to mace someone for that. It's assault.

I would hope that you would be charged and tried accordingly.


CSB: I accidently maced myself when I was 8. I was rummaging around in a junk drawer and accidentally set it off when I picked up the strange looking leather pouch. It's nothing to mess around about.
 
2013-07-15 05:20:41 PM  
http://t.imgbox.com
 
2013-07-15 05:24:33 PM  

Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?


If after you brandished your mace and saying stay back, macing would be justified if he hadn't stopped. If he stopped then you both would have a good laugh when you saw he was trying to return your wallet that fell out of your purse, then he would walk you home and the night would end with fantastic sex back at your apartment.
 
2013-07-15 05:25:19 PM  

Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?


The mace is maybe justifiable, if it ends there.  Sitting on his chest beating his head into the sidewalk in a fit of rage, probably not.  And if you were pummeling his face and slamming his head into concrete, if you got shot in that situation, I'd stick up for his self defense as well, regardless of his skin color.  *gasp*

That's the problem with most anti-zimm J4T's.  They presume it's racism on GZ's part, because a black man can't get a fair shake in the justice system.......erch, what?

The two points are irrelevant, this case was 100% fair.  It's not GZ's fault the inverse wouldn't pan out.  It's the system, blame and crusade against the system, not the guy who you're jealous of because he's treated fairly.  That's Rachel Jeantel-like low levels of intellect and high levels of confusion and anger.

fark you if you can't make the distinctions and associations correctly.  You're the bad examples that keep making the bigots feel empowered and just, therefore helping perpetuate the real victimization that goes on that IS actual racism.

Give credit where it's due(the system worked properly in this case), and likewise, criticize the actual faults(the fact that the black man is held to a higher standard when he farks up, or imprisoned innocently, etc, whatever actual examples you can find).  Confusing and screwing with the mechanics does nothing but leave us all with a farked over mess.

t1.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-15 05:25:46 PM  
 
2013-07-15 05:27:12 PM  

TheSup3rN0va: heili skrimsli: Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?

You do not get to mace someone for that. It's assault.

I would hope that you would be charged and tried accordingly.

CSB: I accidently maced myself when I was 8. I was rummaging around in a junk drawer and accidentally set it off when I picked up the strange looking leather pouch. It's nothing to mess around about.


Did the DA file charges against you for assault yourself?
 
2013-07-15 05:29:27 PM  
Magorn [TotalFark]

you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


upl.co
Had 4 minutes to get home while Z was stopped by his truck.

Treydead told his phone-a-friend that he had made it back to his dad's girlfriend's home. He then went after the mexican he had earlier called Ni**er and Creepy ass cracker.

He chose to fight

You choose to defend the violent racist.
 
2013-07-15 05:29:36 PM  
Look, if I were black, I'd be distancing myself as much as possible from the DroXs and the Sharptons and the Martins and Crumps of the world. Don't hide behind this imagined racism. Listen to Bill Cosby's pound cake speech again. Do yourself proud, and, failing that, do your mother proud. You're much less likely to end up well-ventilated or spending your days breaking large rocks into smaller rocks. And advocate it! It's not like their aren't role models. Look at Robert Griffin IIIor Neil deGrasse Tyson.
 
2013-07-15 05:32:33 PM  

redmid17: TheSup3rN0va: heili skrimsli: Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?

You do not get to mace someone for that. It's assault.

I would hope that you would be charged and tried accordingly.

CSB: I accidently maced myself when I was 8. I was rummaging around in a junk drawer and accidentally set it off when I picked up the strange looking leather pouch. It's nothing to mess around about.

Did the DA file charges against you for assault yourself?


Nah, there's something called personal responsibility where I grew up. When you fark up, you own up to it and get on with your life. No one called CPS on my parents for "leaving a dangerous weapon where a child could get to it". Funny enough, I'd already been through hunters' safety courses by that point.
 
2013-07-15 05:36:54 PM  

MarkEC: You claimed TM could have been justified in his pummeling because he might have known that GZ was armed


If you could quote that, I'd appreciate the chance to retract it.

Please, proceed.
 
2013-07-15 05:38:35 PM  

redmid17: Actually it doesn't matter who started the fight. It's who escalated the fight and prevented someone from escaping.


This is one of the things I don't understand about Zimmerman supporters.  "It doesn't matter who started the fight".

It sounds like you are saying that if Zimmerman chased down Martin and started a physical confrontation, you *still* don't care, because he shot a black kid so fark him anyway.

To me, if Martin started the fight, that's wrong, but a bit understandable as he was provoked by a crazed gun weilding maniac who was chasing him at night.  Even if he shouldn't have done it, it was still self defense because there was a nut case chasing him down.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, was the one doing the provoking.  He's the one carrying a gun, chasing people down at night, trying to make sure there is a confrontation.

And to you, you don't even care if Zimmerman started the fight.  If he started the fight, you're still okay with everything that happened.
 
2013-07-15 05:42:02 PM  

JuggleGeek: To me, if Martin started the fight, that's wrong, but a bit understandable as he was provoked by a crazed gun weilding maniac who was chasing him at night. Even if he shouldn't have done it, it was still self defense because there was a nut case chasing him down.


If someone is following you it doesn't give you the right to assault them. If you take nothing else away from this thread PLEASE remember that. It could literally save you life someday. The correct thing to do is get someplace secure (home, work, an open store) and call the police.
 
2013-07-15 05:44:38 PM  
One of the funny things about this case is that HOA's are more hated on Fark than Illinois Nazis. And Zimmerman was the quintessential HOA pain in the ass. Calling the police to report open windows or doors, kids playing in the streets, etc.. He was a real busy-body. But, getting the chance to legally kill a "criminal" is at the top of many Farkers bucket list. Turned a man who normally would be hated into a hero.
 
2013-07-15 05:45:43 PM  

Witty_Retort: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

5-15 years for manslaughter


His sentence was commuted by the Governor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/nyregion/24commute.html
 
2013-07-15 05:46:40 PM  

Carth: JuggleGeek: To me, if Martin started the fight, that's wrong, but a bit understandable as he was provoked by a crazed gun weilding maniac who was chasing him at night. Even if he shouldn't have done it, it was still self defense because there was a nut case chasing him down.

If someone is following you it doesn't give you the right to assault them. If you take nothing else away from this thread PLEASE remember that. It could literally save you life someday. The correct thing to do is get someplace secure (home, work, an open store) and call the police.


I don't know why it's taken me this long to remember this.

One day, I passed a guy on the highway. As I passed him, he flipped me off, and he stayed right behind me for 20 or so miles. When I suspected he might be following me, I pulled into a gas station (plenty of witnesses) and parked right by the door. He pulled up and yelled something at me, and drove off. The point being, one, whatever you do, don't go  home,if you can avoid it. The smartest thing for Trayvon would probably have been to go back to the 7-11, unless he knew that he had lost his pursuer, in which case he could continue home.
 
2013-07-15 05:53:22 PM  

Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?


Until and unless I had made clear an intention to use physical force against you, your "macing" of me would constitute an unjustified attack. Whether you are aware of my motive prior to such demonstration of intent is irrelevant, and in fact the ambiguity of my motive is why attacking until intent is demonstrated is not legally justified.
 
2013-07-15 05:54:15 PM  

NightOwl2255: One of the funny things about this case is that HOA's are more hated on Fark than Illinois Nazis. And Zimmerman was the quintessential HOA pain in the ass. Calling the police to report open windows or doors, kids playing in the streets, etc.. He was a real busy-body. But, getting the chance to legally kill a "criminal" is at the top of many Farkers bucket list. Turned a man who normally would be hated into a hero.


I'm amused by those who say they dislike race card playing race baiters and their poverty pimping ways.

now, they have to transform this case into a story about race when the racist was the dead Black guy, not the dumb white. everything has to be racial in this story to the race pimps.

/ if TM were a redneck cracka who told his friend that an uppity Negro was following him, the result of the trial would be the same.
 
2013-07-15 05:55:23 PM  

Deucednuisance: MarkEC: You claimed TM could have been justified in his pummeling because he might have known that GZ was armed

If you could quote that, I'd appreciate the chance to retract it.

Please, proceed.


Wasn't you, when you jumped in I didn't notice the name change on the same topic.
 
2013-07-15 06:00:33 PM  

MarkEC: Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?

If after you brandished your mace and saying stay back, macing would be justified if he hadn't stopped. If he stopped then you both would have a good laugh when you saw he was trying to return your wallet that fell out of your purse, then he would walk you home and the night would end with fantastic sex back at your apartment.


What you describe is unlikely.
 
2013-07-15 06:04:09 PM  

Dimensio: MarkEC: Deucednuisance: Dimensio: Until and unless a "follower" engages in aggressive behaviour, physical violence against the follower is not legally justified.

I am a twenty-something woman, who stayed out a little late and missed the last Metro.  I decide to walk to the nearest bus stop on my route, a few blocks and a few turns away.  You exit the club a few moments after me.  I notice you take the same turn I do, and take another to be sure, and sure enough you take that same turn.  I am a petite thing, in heels and can't walk as fast as I'd like, and you are an adult male and rapidly closing.  I start to hurry, you increase your speed.  I take another turn.  So do you.  The street is empty, except for us. Suddenly you are directly behind me and say "Hey, Lady..."

May I legally mace you?

Is my fear of you unreasonable?

Even if it turns out you were hustling to catch up with me to hand me something I had dropped in the club and had no aggression or ill-intent, how was I to know that in the totality of the situation?

If after you brandished your mace and saying stay back, macing would be justified if he hadn't stopped. If he stopped then you both would have a good laugh when you saw he was trying to return your wallet that fell out of your purse, then he would walk you home and the night would end with fantastic sex back at your apartment.

What you describe is unlikely.


Maybe, but it would be a good scenario for the beginning of the next Romantic Comedy in the theaters.
 
2013-07-15 06:05:17 PM  

JuggleGeek: redmid17: Actually it doesn't matter who started the fight. It's who escalated the fight and prevented someone from escaping.

This is one of the things I don't understand about Zimmerman supporters.  "It doesn't matter who started the fight".

It sounds like you are saying that if Zimmerman chased down Martin and started a physical confrontation, you *still* don't care, because he shot a black kid so fark him anyway.

To me, if Martin started the fight, that's wrong, but a bit understandable as he was provoked by a crazed gun weilding maniac who was chasing him at night.  Even if he shouldn't have done it, it was still self defense because there was a nut case chasing him down.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, was the one doing the provoking.  He's the one carrying a gun, chasing people down at night, trying to make sure there is a confrontation.

And to you, you don't even care if Zimmerman started the fight.  If he started the fight, you're still okay with everything that happened.


I have not argued that the instigator of the confrontation is of no relevance. If Mr. Zimmerman did initiate the physical confrontation, then he bears legal responsibility for doing so and should face charges related to his instigation. However, based upon Florida's self-defense statute, his use of deadly force would itself likely remain legal as Mr. Zimmerman was unable to retreat at the time.
 
2013-07-15 06:19:41 PM  

Dimensio: Attempting to justify a refusal


I'm a little confused as to why I would have to justify anything to you. Are you laboring under the misunderstanding that I am in some way obligated to discuss this with you or treat your ongoing display of ignorance with undue respect?

I'm simply not playing your silly little game. If you really feel like I should justify that, it's simply because you're being a dishonest knob in this thread, as you have been in every other thread you've ever participated in, and I have no interest in or respect for your opinions on this or any other issue because I've never seen you once display anything that could even be mistaken for integrity or intelligence.

Does that make you feel better?

UnspokenVoice: Please show where he incited the other to violence. Following someone isn't grounds for violence.


I don't think you know what the word 'incite' means.
 
2013-07-15 06:22:05 PM  

mizchief: Not only did you totally miss the point of the comment you posted, you flat out called him a racist with no supporting evidence. fark you.


I didn't call anyone a racist, but it's clear you can't hold a conversation and just want to cuss.  I'll play along.  Here's a $2 bill, go fark your mother.

Zimmerman supports think it's OK if Zimmerman started the fight.  Doesn't seem to bother them. I don't get it.  You didn't try to explain it, you just started cussing.  That makes you a piece of shiat.  And you lied about me calling someone racist when I said no such thing, which makes you a lying piece of shiat.

Dimensio's stance, that Zimmerman starting the fight would matter, and would be illegal, but would still allow him to use the gun in self defense makes sense.  "It doesn't matter if Zimmerman started the fight", doesn't.
 
2013-07-15 06:24:33 PM  

JuggleGeek: redmid17: Actually it doesn't matter who started the fight. It's who escalated the fight and prevented someone from escaping.

This is one of the things I don't understand about Zimmerman supporters.  "It doesn't matter who started the fight".

It sounds like you are saying that if Zimmerman chased down Martin and started a physical confrontation, you *still* don't care, because he shot a black kid so fark him anyway.

To me, if Martin started the fight, that's wrong, but a bit understandable as he was provoked by a crazed gun weilding maniac who was chasing him at night.  Even if he shouldn't have done it, it was still self defense because there was a nut case chasing him down.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, was the one doing the provoking.  He's the one carrying a gun, chasing people down at night, trying to make sure there is a confrontation.

And to you, you don't even care if Zimmerman started the fight.  If he started the fight, you're still okay with everything that happened.


If it sounds that way to you, you should probably get your ears cleaned out and your eyes examined, and that's about as polite as I'm going to get. There is no way to construe that me not caring or endorsing what Zimmerman did unless you're a moron or unable to actually see what I typed.

For probably the 80th time, Florida self-defense laws allow the instigator of a fight to use lethal force in self defense if they cannot escape and the amount of force being used against them gives them reasonable fear of serious bodily harm or death. That point should have been drilled into you about 80 times by now. I know people have posted the self-defense statute directly in replies to you and have corrected you when you stated otherwise in multiple threads. If you haven't yet gotten it into your head, I'm surprised you can afford a computer to post on or the monthly internet bill.

And please, somehow call me racist for pointing out Florida laws and how they are applied to a specific situation. That doesn't sound desperate or idiotic at all.
 
2013-07-15 06:26:44 PM  

JuggleGeek: Zimmerman supports think it's OK if Zimmerman started the fight.


LOL what?
 
2013-07-15 06:29:18 PM  

JuggleGeek: mizchief: Not only did you totally miss the point of the comment you posted, you flat out called him a racist with no supporting evidence. fark you.

I didn't call anyone a racist, but it's clear you can't hold a conversation and just want to cuss.  I'll play along.  Here's a $2 bill, go fark your mother.

Zimmerman supports think it's OK if Zimmerman started the fight.  Doesn't seem to bother them. I don't get it.  You didn't try to explain it, you just started cussing.  That makes you a piece of shiat.  And you lied about me calling someone racist when I said no such thing, which makes you a lying piece of shiat.

Dimensio's stance, that Zimmerman starting the fight would matter, and would be illegal, but would still allow him to use the gun in self defense makes sense.  "It doesn't matter if Zimmerman started the fight", doesn't.


Listen retread, please reread the the law for the 81st time:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.History.-s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.
Even if Zimmerman *did* start the fight, and we don't know who did, it doesn't matter. He was screaming for help* and pinned on his back where he couldn't escape. His story meets either prong of the exception.

* testimony is conflicted but you can't deny that it could have been him
 
2013-07-15 06:29:53 PM  

redmid17: If it sounds that way to you, you should probably get your ears cleaned out and your eyes examined, and that's about as polite as I'm going to get. There is no way to construe that me not caring or endorsing what Zimmerman did unless you're a moron or unable to actually see what I typed.


Your words "it doesn't matter who started the fight.".

But you are correct that I should know by know that you don't actually mean the crap you say.
 
2013-07-15 06:32:13 PM  

TheSup3rN0va: Look, if I were black, I'd be distancing myself as much as possible from the DroXs and the Sharptons and the Martins and Crumps of the world. Don't hide behind this imagined racism. Listen to Bill Cosby's pound cake speech again. Do yourself proud, and, failing that, do your mother proud. You're much less likely to end up well-ventilated or spending your days breaking large rocks into smaller rocks. And advocate it! It's not like their aren't role models. Look at Robert Griffin IIIor Neil deGrasse Tyson.


This.  The only difference between many obviously racist blacks and criminal blacks(and the same for every race) is that some chose to carry words over into action.  The same mind set exists, the same not equal but better attitude, the same condescension, the same vile thoughts, just lacking in action.

You see the same sickening attitude in all extremist groups to one degree or another, gay/lesbian to women's rights to religions to rednecks to oddball groups like peta/alf.

Everyone has their share of problematic assholes.  It's not racist to point out that some blacks are assholes any more than it's racist to point out that some PETA members are assholes.

One of the best signs that someone isn't racist is when they can point out and protest the flawed sub-groups in their own race/culture as quickly as any others, just as one of the signs of racism is the willful ignorance and denial of the same. It's akin to being self-aware, this understanding of local society and all of it's major flaws, is key to overcoming those flaws that are problematic.

This is why so many bigots of any flavor seem mentally ill, they convey nothing but anger, indicative of confusion, of not understanding the world around themselves.
 
2013-07-15 06:32:35 PM  

JuggleGeek: redmid17: If it sounds that way to you, you should probably get your ears cleaned out and your eyes examined, and that's about as polite as I'm going to get. There is no way to construe that me not caring or endorsing what Zimmerman did unless you're a moron or unable to actually see what I typed.

Your words "it doesn't matter who started the fight.".

But you are correct that I should know by know that you don't actually mean the crap you say.


*Legally speaking* it doesn't matter who started the fight. There is that better. I apologize if, in a discussion about the legality of lethal self defense as an aggressor, I didn't bother to preface my sentence with those two words.

It would have been better if neither of those two people were a dumbass that night, but it happened. When people like you constantly and consistently say it was illegal and that Zimmerman should be in jail because you can't or won't understand the law in question, it gets kind of annoying.
 
2013-07-15 06:36:39 PM  

redmid17: *Legally speaking* it doesn't matter who started the fight. There is that better.


And that's still not true.  Legally speaking, if Zimmerman started the fight, then he's guilty of assault.  You just don't care.
 
2013-07-15 06:40:58 PM  

JuggleGeek: redmid17: *Legally speaking* it doesn't matter who started the fight. There is that better.

And that's still not true.  Legally speaking, if Zimmerman started the fight, then he's guilty of assault.  You just don't care.


Did I ever deny that? Please point it out and I will wait.

I said it didn't matter for the self-defense claim.
 
2013-07-15 06:42:14 PM  

skozlaw: Dimensio: Attempting to justify a refusal

I'm a little confused as to why I would have to justify anything to you. Are you laboring under the misunderstanding that I am in some way obligated to discuss this with you or treat your ongoing display of ignorance with undue respect?

I'm simply not playing your silly little game. If you really feel like I should justify that, it's simply because you're being a dishonest knob in this thread, as you have been in every other thread you've ever participated in, and I have no interest in or respect for your opinions on this or any other issue because I've never seen you once display anything that could even be mistaken for integrity or intelligence.

Does that make you feel better?


I understand your position: you are entirely unable to justify your assertions with any actual evidence. Nonetheless, your attempt to refuse to justify your unsupported claims by insulting me remains intellectually dishonest.
 
2013-07-15 06:55:18 PM  

JuggleGeek: And that's still not true.  Legally speaking, if Zimmerman started the fight, then he's guilty of assault.  You just don't care.


Okay, lets charge George with assault and give him credit for time served and probation. We good now?
 
2013-07-15 06:57:39 PM  

JuggleGeek: redmid17: *Legally speaking* it doesn't matter who started the fight. There is that better.

And that's still not true.  Legally speaking, if Zimmerman started the fight, then he's guilty of assault.  You just don't care.


If there were any evidence GZ started the fight by assaulting TM, then yes it could be something he could be charged with separately from the charges he already faced. There is no evidence for that, so it's another "what if".

(1)An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
(2)Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

If there was evidence that GZ started the fight with an assault, he could face 60 days in jail and/or a $500 fine.
 
2013-07-15 07:01:16 PM  
I have friends that have almost started foaming at the mouth because I told them that based on evidence Zimmerman would go free. They've been worse since the verdict. They just don't want to listen and are all emotional. I'd hate to be someone on trial that they are on the jury for. I keep telling them to use their heads not their hearts.

I figure if they had charged Zimmerman with negligent manslaughter or something more appropriate than the murder charge, they might have gotten a conviction. I just think they over charged him.
 
2013-07-15 07:04:41 PM  

tevo: Witty_Retort: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

5-15 years for manslaughter

His sentence was commuted by the Governor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/nyregion/24commute.html


Did you read this article? There were only threats of violence against his son and the guy accidentally discharged his weapon in the kids face. After brandishing
 
2013-07-15 07:23:44 PM  

skozlaw: Dimensio: Attempting to justify a refusal

I'm a little confused as to why I would have to justify anything to you. Are you laboring under the misunderstanding that I am in some way obligated to discuss this with you or treat your ongoing display of ignorance with undue respect?

I'm simply not playing your silly little game. If you really feel like I should justify that, it's simply because you're being a dishonest knob in this thread, as you have been in every other thread you've ever participated in, and I have no interest in or respect for your opinions on this or any other issue because I've never seen you once display anything that could even be mistaken for integrity or intelligence.

Does that make you feel better?

UnspokenVoice: Please show where he incited the other to violence. Following someone isn't grounds for violence.

I don't think you know what the word 'incite' means.


Verb

Encourage or stir up (violent or unlawful behavior).
 
2013-07-15 07:33:06 PM  
Here's what i don't get. If the bar for level of evidence needed to convict was lowered to the point team trayvon wants... it would be worse for black youth than the 1 in a million shooting. Black youth incarceration rates are already staggeringly high. Imagine if they could convict on the evidence presented at trial.
 
2013-07-15 07:35:00 PM  

Abuse Liability: tevo: Witty_Retort: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

5-15 years for manslaughter

His sentence was commuted by the Governor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/24/nyregion/24commute.html

Did you read this article? There were only threats of violence against his son and the guy accidentally discharged his weapon in the kids face. After brandishing


Handgun. New York. No permit. Automatic criminal possession. He could have gotten a year just for that. Out in 5 month, I agree with the Governor on that one.
 
2013-07-15 08:30:23 PM  

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed. But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder death of Martin


You are assuming.
It's very possible Martin attacked Zimmerman.
Corrected your last sentence for accuracy.
 
2013-07-15 09:34:29 PM  

I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


actually,a little research will show you he was black/hispanic/jewish
 
2013-07-15 09:51:17 PM  

porterm: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

actually,a little research will show you he was black/hispanic/jewish


perform-360.com
 
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