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(Yahoo)   Authorities report widespread not rioting all over the country in the wake of the Zimmerman trial verdict, as many as zero people have been killed or injured in the lack of violence so far   (gma.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, KABC-TV, WABC-TV, marchers, Manhattan neighborhoods, acquittals, verdicts, riots, violence  
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3002 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2013 at 10:14 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 11:43:44 AM  

Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.


It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.
 
2013-07-15 11:43:51 AM  
Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.
 
2013-07-15 11:44:20 AM  
No really this came about because a lot of Florida became polarized in the sixties due to it's fast growth. You would have several completely different groups going in for jury duty who had agendas that were leading to a lot of hung juries. The civil rights blacks or their liberal friends from the north would let all the blacks go. The hippies would let all the drug guys go. The Cubans would let all the Cubans go. The rural population would let the country folks go in crimes against developers. And all it took was one on a jury of twelve to void out the entire trial. So they cut it to six except for capital cases and pushed it through the legislature by claiming it would save the government money.


DROxINxTHExWIND : This shiat is totally untrue and irresponsible.

So sorry but this is historical fact. Just because you want to re-invent history and wish it away to fit your preconceived notions of reality doesn't alter what happened.
 
2013-07-15 11:44:25 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.


"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?


Shh. They love dem dar hispaneek defehndants dern't they
 
2013-07-15 11:44:49 AM  

Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.

Was Martin's hands bagged?


I just admitted the forensics were screwed up. I hardly think that was out of malice, but rather simple incompetence.  That's also not something you can go back and fix, so I don't see why they felt they had to charge Zimmerman in the first place.
 
2013-07-15 11:44:49 AM  
I for one am upset that there were no riots. I had a shopping list for Best Buy all ready to go.
 
2013-07-15 11:45:21 AM  

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Depends on state and local laws.
 
2013-07-15 11:46:00 AM  

Latinwolf: Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?

To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.


To some people, it isn't.  Shocking, I know, but some people who see suspicious behavior don't let race influence their decision making process.

What a world!
 
2013-07-15 11:46:41 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: Cletus C.

Jeantel's version stops short of the actual confrontation...

Jeantel's version is that Martin confronted Zimmerman, actually. This corroborated Zimmerman's account, and no one has suggested otherwise.

At least not in court or to the police. A lot of Farkers have their own theories without support.


Confronted? Please cut and paste where she said that.
 
2013-07-15 11:47:11 AM  

someonelse: Rueened: It was more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming.

Demonstrably untrue, and everything you say from here on out should be distrusted.


Please proceed.
 
2013-07-15 11:48:05 AM  
I must admit I'm surprised at the lack of rioting.  Everyone knows that black people have no lives or interests of their own, they just wander around all night attacking people at random like the zombies in a video game eg Castlevania.  Why don't black people realize that racism doesn't exist anymore and no one is racist?  But thank goodness there is no rioting, it is certainly due to just luck, because black people are violent and inferior and like any excuse to riot and be paranoid about racism.

/thick enough sarcasm for ya?
 
2013-07-15 11:48:49 AM  
The Muthaship

At least we got a whole new racial classification out of the deal.

Not really. Zimmerman's still a mestizo. Most Americans don't know what that is, or think "Hispanic" means mestizo, or just aren't aware that much of Latin America is a gradient of mixtures. "White Hispanic" is a thing, but doesn't describe Zimmerman; he's literally as white as Obama.
 
2013-07-15 11:48:57 AM  

omeganuepsilon: Latinwolf: Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?

To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.

To some people, it isn't.  Shocking, I know, but some people who see suspicious behavior don't let race influence their decision making process.

What a world!


I'd say that being young and male is probably more of the suspicious behavior, fwiw...
 
2013-07-15 11:49:35 AM  

bulldg4life: Facetious_Speciest: Jeantel's version is that Martin confronted Zimmerman, actually. This corroborated Zimmerman's account, and no one has suggested otherwise.

Her version indicates that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, correct?

Then the phone drops as there was a start to the struggle. I'm pretty sure that is the end of what she describes.

So...
Option A: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Martin strikes Zimmerman
Option B: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Zimmerman makes a move to grab Martin by the arm, Martin responds.

One of those two things happens.

Now, Zimmerman stated that he was struck from behind with no previous interaction and was taken to the ground. Jeantel's version seems to contradict that. And, I believe there was another witness that reported seeing two man standing and grappling. That would, similarly, indicate an issue with Zimmerman's story.

I don't see how you can possibly determine whether A or B is right.


Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

Mr. Zimmerman said that as he walked back to his vehicle,  Mr. Martin appeared and said, "You got a problem?" Mr. Zimmerman told him he didn't.
"Well you do now," the teenager replied, according to Mr. Zimmerman's account. Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin punched him in the face as he fumbled for his mobile phone to call 9/11. Mr. Zimmerman said he fell backward and Mr. Martin got on top of him and slammed his head on the concrete sidewalk.


http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/21/zimmermans-version-of-events-mad e- public/
 
2013-07-15 11:49:46 AM  

Phil McKraken: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

Oh really? Didn't a witness claim Zimmerman was on top?

Yes.  After the lethal shot was fired.  Irrelevant to the incident as the charged incident had already taken place.

What happened before that? Martin punched Zimmerman in the face then proceeded to slam Zimmerman's head against the concrete at which point Zimmerman drew his weapon and fired the lethal shot.

No one knows except the guy who took a gun, followed Trayvon and shot him. Actually, a witness testified to the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and striking Zimmerman in a "ground and pound" fashion.  He reported he heard the shot immediately afterward. So, one person does know something.  The physical evidence of the wounds to both Trayvon and George verify these versions of the event.You didn't watch the trial either, that much is obvious.

Zimmerman's actions BEFORE the altercation indicate to me that he took the gun because why?  He was expecting trouble?  I don't know why you would believe...something, except that you are proposing a leading question that you only want to hear one conclusion to; that you believe that Zimmerman was looking for a fight.  Of course, you have no proof of this conclusion.  But, since you didn't watch the trial proceedings or read the transcript, I don't expect anything less.

Didn't Zimmerman have some martial arts training?Mwhahaha.  Instructor testified to the results of Zimmerman's vaunted MMA training.  Go read the transcripts.You'll understand why some people are laughing at your question.

He's just playing Hollywood tough guy.  You have your uninformed opinions.  You are certainly entitled to them.
 
2013-07-15 11:50:06 AM  
Cletus C.

Confronted? Please cut and paste where she said that.

You want me to cut and paste where she said the word "confronted?"

That's cutting it a bit fine, yes? You realise that words have meaning without a particular person using them, right?
 
2013-07-15 11:50:17 AM  

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Target probably doesn't allow it but I am not sure if they can eject people for carrying.concealed. Laws vary from state to state and I don't have a Florida CHL (or any for that matter).
 
2013-07-15 11:50:27 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: No. Watch the trial, or his re-enactment with police, or his television interview, or anything else he said.


Sorry, his original statement was he was approached from the rear and then Martin confronted him and struck him in the face. That leaves out the part that Jeantel mentions where Zimmerman verbally confronts him before the struggle.

Apologies as I combined those two events.
 
2013-07-15 11:50:42 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: "White Hispanic" is a thing, but doesn't describe Zimmerman; he's literally as white as Obama.


The media got to frame it as black and white, even if they had to hedge a bit.  I'm sure that thrilled them.
 
2013-07-15 11:51:18 AM  

cwolf20: DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.


"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?

Shh. They love dem dar hispaneek defehndants dern't they


About as much as Republicans love Mormons. If the other choice is a black man its incredible how people can put aside their other prejudices and unite.
 
2013-07-15 11:51:21 AM  

Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.  Mind you the last time I pointed this out I was accused of playing the race card by one of the very same farkers who was running around saying "Black people will riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty".


Confront yes, attack no. The person who initiates physical violence cannot claim self defense. If Martin would have turned around and started yelling, asking questions verbally arguing with Zimmerman, called him a creepy ass craker, etc than Zimmerman would have had no justification to shoot or even display a firearm.

But that's not what happened. Martin initiated physical violence. That removes any claim he might have had of self defense again Zimmerman and gives that claim to Zimmerman. The jury saw this and made the right decision.
 
2013-07-15 11:51:56 AM  

Dion Fortune: I must admit I'm surprised at the lack of rioting.  Everyone knows that black people have no lives or interests of their own, they just wander around all night attacking people at random like the zombies in a video game eg Castlevania.  Why don't black people realize that racism doesn't exist anymore and no one is racist?  But thank goodness there is no rioting, it is certainly due to just luck, because black people are violent and inferior and like any excuse to riot and be paranoid about racism.

/thick enough sarcasm for ya?


It'll do.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:07 AM  

Latinwolf: Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?

To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.


Being black walking at night in a neighborhood that is only 20% black and has had recent break-ins by young black men is enough to be suspicious. That is not a racist thought that you should feel dirty about. Stopping at that thought is a little racist, but it causing suspicion to follow and/or investigate is not. If you add to the fact that GZ felt he was looking into windows/stalling at houses, this added even more to his suspicion. Granted that GZ's testimony there cannot be validated, but I fail to see the problem here. What do you think goes through the mind of people in a predominantly black neighborhood when they see a lone Hispanic man walking through the hood? I am totally sure that they are not suspicious and jumping to conclusions in their heads there. Racial profiling, despite it being a fun buzzword, is not as dirty as most make it out to be the majority of the time.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:27 AM  

MarkEC: ggecko: This is the absolute best advice you will see on this, and it is from a BLACK man:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFi0l--NPI

Wow, if I ever go to Akron Mississippi, I'd like to take that Steeler Fan out for a drink.


Every American, regardless of race, needs to watch this and learn from one of the most brilliant men in modern America.  He nailed it.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:35 AM  

dittybopper: Phil McKraken: dittybopper:
If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

It's as easy as shooting Zimmerman and then claiming self defense - even if it's a lie. No one disputes that Zimmerman was following Martin, a provocative act that Zimmerman should have recognized as such and let the police do their jobs.

If I follow you, you feel justified in using physical force against me?  Interesting.  I hope no one follows you, for your sake, as you'll either wind up dead or in jail.


I once discovered that I had been followed through the entire length of a local shopping mall by a film student who had an interest in using me in a scene in her student production (though nothing came of that). Some here evidently believe that I would have been justified in striking her in the face had I realised that she was following me.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:44 AM  

QueenMamaBee: Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Well, Lipizzaners change col ...


Like George Costanza.  Opposite George.  See, it all fits.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:49 AM  

Marine1: Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.

Depends on state and local laws.


Most "no gun" stores/businesses have the local statute written on them, it should define what places are exempt from the concealed carry law.

Not that everyone listens. I had a guy come in for a drug screen carrying concealed. He had to pass TWO signs saying "no weapons" and the Ky statute number. He said "I didn't think that applied to me." Well, genius, you can take NOTHING in with you when you do the test, what's keeping one of us from taking your gun? Or if he wants the hero scenario, if someone busts in with guns blazing, will he ask them to wait while he retrieves his gun from a locked locker? The only people allowed to carry in the office are the police officers when they come in for their randoms, other than than that.... gotta leave your crap in the car.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:11 AM  

justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.


I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:14 AM  
bulldg4life

Sorry, his original statement was he was approached from the rear and then Martin confronted him and struck him in the face. That leaves out the part that Jeantel mentions where Zimmerman verbally confronts him before the struggle.

Jeantel never said that Zimmerman confronted Martin. She testified that Martin verbally confronted Zimmerman.

Apologies as I combined those two events.

It's just a fark thread. shiat happens. :P
 
2013-07-15 11:53:17 AM  

bulldg4life: lizannefel: Based on the fact that the media has ignored the case in Brunswick, Georgia where last March two teens shot 13 month old baby, Antonio Santiago, in the face during a robbery, the case in New Jersey where two brothers murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale and stuffed her body in a trash receptacle just to steal her BMX bike, and the case in Indiana where three men murdered 24 year old Jacqueline Gardner last May just to steal her $85 in tip money, I'd have to say that the case of a white Trayvon Martin being murdered by a black George Zimmerman would have never been sensationalised by the national media and therefore the case would be widely unknown to the American public.

In all three of your situations, the suspects were arrested and charged with murder within a week or two of the incident, if I'm correct. All three cases are progressing towards capital murder charges (in the first two cases, teens are being charged as adults).

Surely you see the difference and the cause of the initial outrage.


I do understand the initial outrage actually, Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter within a few weeks of an investigation as well. I say manslaughter because I think that was the prosecutions best bet at sending him to jail due to having an insufficient amount of evidence that would support a murder trial.
What I also see is a disgusting amount of people making this case about race and making that a vocal point of the situation. A kid is dead, it's sad I don't care what color he is and neither should anyone else.
And there are legitimate reasons why the murderers were charged so quickly in the three cases I brought up. In the Georgia case it helps that the baby's mother witnessed the murder and was shot herself, the boys in New Jersey were handed to police by their mother after she found that they had the victims BMX bike, and the police had an overwhelming amount of evidence to connect the three men to the murder in Indiana including two witnesses. Had the prosecution had witnesses saying they saw Zimmerman kill Martin with out being attacked Zimmerman would be in jail for murder. He was found not guilty because of lack of evidence not because he didn't kill the kid.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:48 AM  

Phil McKraken: Marine1: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

I was referring more to the post suggesting that a punch would be a good idea than Martin's conduct. I've yet to find any good timeline of what happened that night. Honestly, I couldn't have voted guilty on that jury even if I had wanted to.

Uh...two people go into a room; the one with a gun following the first. The unarmed person is dead and the armed person claims self defense.

It makes no sense to me. What's the gun for if you don't intend trouble?


Do you own smoke detectors or fire extinguishers? Why, if you don't intend on setting your house on fire. Does your car have seatbelts? Why, if you don't intend on wrecking your car.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:52 AM  

Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Well, Lipizzan ...


I lol'd. Good one.
 
2013-07-15 11:54:04 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.


"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?

Shh. They love dem dar hispaneek defehndants dern't they

About as much as Republicans love Mormons. If the other choice is a black man its incredible how people can put aside their other prejudices and unite.


Oddly enough I have neither one side or the other on it.  So the discussion is more amusing than anything.  I thought you were referring to the fact that people think that since he's a white hispanic as a lot of people call him, he's racist
 
2013-07-15 11:55:26 AM  

Dimensio: Maybe he did confront him only verbally. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun and said the punk wasn't going to get away with it again, whatever it was he was going to get away with. Maybe Martin thought he was about to die and tried to stop the crazy man. You don't know. I don't know, either. Just a dead unarmed teen and the guy who followed him in the dark and shot him.

Perhaps, had you contacted the prosecution with this baseless speculation, they could have used it at trial to secure an unappealable verdict against Mr. Zimmerman.


You're not allowed to just make shiat up in court. Which one of the reasons Zimmerman did not testify.
 
2013-07-15 11:55:32 AM  

redmid17: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

The investigation was so inadequate that the 2nd investigation including federal authorities and a new prosecutor found nothing new? Where they more or less lied in the affidavit of probable cause? Where the defense was denied information during the discovery phase by the state attorney's office?


The original investigation was inadequate. We're talking about the preservation of forensic evidence, toxicology of the suspect, and so on. The second review was merely a reexamination of the previously collected evidence and a few additional interviews. The first investigation was problematic.
 
2013-07-15 11:56:00 AM  

Millennium: Dimensio: According to Florida statutes regarding the justified use of force:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.-s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

An instigator of a physical confrontation cannot claim justification for use of deadly force unless the instigator attempts but is unable to disengage from the confrontation and is also unable to end the confrontation with lesser force or the instigator has withdrawn from the confrontation but is pursued by the assailant.

Even an instigator can claim self-defense if the other person goes deadly, or presses the attack after the instigator withdraws. I still deny that it is reasonable to call Zimmerman an instigator based solely on what we know, but even if we assume that he was, it would seem that self-defense still applies.


I concur with your assessment, but evidence indicating that Mr. Zimmerman had instigated the physical confrontation would warrant charges based upon the instigation. An individual who commits assault and battery, and then justifiably uses deadly force when an attempt to escape the ensuing physical confrontation fails, has still committed assault and battery. Florida law would not prevent such charges from being applied.
 
2013-07-15 11:57:24 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: Jeantel never said that Zimmerman confronted Martin. She testified that Martin verbally confronted Zimmerman.


Her comments stated that Martin asks Zimmerman a question at the same time Zimmerman asks Martin a question.

I mean, what if Martin is standing there on the phone and Zimmerman walks up on him? They ask each other questions at the same time, then either:
a) Martin pushes Zimmerman away
b) Zimmerman makes an attempt to grab Martin by the arm

I don't believe you can definitively state which of those things happened.

lizannefel: I do understand the initial outrage actually


If you do understand the initial outrage, then why did you bring up cases where the charges were quite quickly filed and admonish people for not making it a national story?

I mean, if there were no charges filed in the other cases, I'm sure it would've been more of a story.
 
2013-07-15 11:57:41 AM  

Phil McKraken: Didn't Zimmerman have some martial arts training?


A few months: just enough to hinder him in a fight rather than help. The first few years of martial arts training are a very dangerous time for beginners, because you're still unlearning all your old instincts and haven't had enough time to ingrain the new ones yet. You actually get worse in a fight before you get better, which is where most of the "LOL martial arts don't work" stories come from: for the first few years, they really don't. But there's no avoiding it: you've got to get through that stage to get to the point where they actually start doing something for you, and Zimmerman was not there. If his instructor's evaluation is any indication, he had a long, long way to go.

Now, it's possible that Zimmerman wasn't aware of this. Instructors warn about this pretty strenuously, but it still happens to beginners all the time. It's a nasty way to learn how much you don't know, but some people don't learn any other way.
 
2013-07-15 11:58:29 AM  
bulldg4life

I don't believe you can definitively state which of those things happened.

True. I wasn't there.

/shrug
 
2013-07-15 11:58:38 AM  

justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.

It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.


And you dutifully mouth unsubstantiated "facts" from the Zimmerman version.
 
2013-07-15 11:58:57 AM  

bulldg4life: I don't believe you can definitively state which of those things happened.


So vote guilty.
 
2013-07-15 11:59:19 AM  

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Few national retail chains prohibit the possession of firearms by lawfully permitted individuals. In fact, on one occasion I carried an openly displayed firearm in a Target store.

/I no longer carry openly, out of courtesy to local police who informed me that they prefer citizens to carry concealed.
 
2013-07-15 12:00:06 PM  

Latinwolf: dr_blasto: DROxINxTHExWIND: From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shocking.

The riots in LA after the Rodney King verdict were due to years and years of abuse of poorer and mostly minority citizens by the system and its enforcers, corrupt and abusive cops that percieved their job as fighting a war against those very people they were charged with protecting. That verdict was just the spark. The unrest was already at a boil just under the surface.

And let us not forget that in this incident cops were caught on video tape beating subduing Rodney King as he was resisting arrest so it just wasn't a matter of his word against theirs.


Per the jury, at least, since they were all acquitted of using excessive force. Which, really, is how trials go. Zimmerman shot Martin; he was acquitted of murder and manslaughter. All it means is he's not going to PMITA prison.
 
2013-07-15 12:00:34 PM  

The Muthaship: So vote guilty.


I don't believe I have ever indicated thinking that. Most certainly not in this thread.
 
2013-07-15 12:00:55 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Cletus C.

Confronted? Please cut and paste where she said that.

You want me to cut and paste where she said the word "confronted?"

That's cutting it a bit fine, yes? You realise that words have meaning without a particular person using them, right?


Oh no. Just cut and paste where you think her testimony indicated Martin confronted Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-15 12:01:37 PM  
Cletus C.

Oh no. Just cut and paste where you think her testimony indicated Martin confronted Zimmerman.

Sure. Which transcript are you using?
 
2013-07-15 12:02:08 PM  

justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

Mr. Zimmerman said that as he walked back to his vehicle,  Mr. Martin appeared and said, "You got a problem?" Mr. Zimmerman told him he didn't.
"Well you do now," the teenager replied, according to Mr. Zimmerman's account. Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin punched him in the face as he fumbled for his mobile phone to call 9/11. Mr. Zimmerman said he fell backward and Mr. Martin got on top of him and slammed his head on the concrete sidewalk.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/21/zimmermans-version-of-events-mad e- public/



I think I found your problem. You and a lot of others here. Zimmerman's account of the incident is not and should not be viewed as "fact".
 
2013-07-15 12:02:39 PM  

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


Why do I have you farkied as a lawyer? That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.
 
2013-07-15 12:04:49 PM  

bulldg4life: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.


Fair enough. I think both could be true. Very possible neither of them accurately remember what was said or all of what was said.

Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Again that's my opinion. We will definitely never know for sure.
 
2013-07-15 12:05:33 PM  
I agree with the jury.

Only because of the facts I've read. Not the opinions of emotional derp spreaders.
 
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