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(Yahoo)   Authorities report widespread not rioting all over the country in the wake of the Zimmerman trial verdict, as many as zero people have been killed or injured in the lack of violence so far   (gma.yahoo.com) divider line 880
    More: Followup, KABC-TV, WABC-TV, marchers, Manhattan neighborhoods, acquittals, verdicts, riots, violence  
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2931 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2013 at 10:14 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 09:09:56 AM
FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?
 
2013-07-15 09:12:14 AM
I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.
 
2013-07-15 09:16:38 AM

The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?


this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin
 
2013-07-15 09:20:01 AM
Meanwhile, down the road from Sanford, FL...
 
2013-07-15 09:20:29 AM

Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


Well, one of us is delusional....
 
2013-07-15 09:23:03 AM

dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.


Despite the media's best efforts.
 
2013-07-15 09:23:47 AM

Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


100% innocent in the lawful killing of the Skittles kid.
 
2013-07-15 09:24:54 AM

Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


You are also delusional if you think Martin had zero responsibility for his own death.
 
2013-07-15 09:26:12 AM
Best quote I've heard so far about this case:   Two idiots tried to out-idiot each other. One was successful.
 
2013-07-15 09:29:20 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

100% innocent not guilty in the lawful killing of the Skittles kid.


Was OJ "innocent" too?  You know the difference.
 
2013-07-15 09:32:02 AM

Diogenes: Was OJ "innocent" too?  You know the difference.


I think you can say he was legally innocent in this case.  I know the finding is not guilty.  But, this is a self defense case.  There's no doubt he killed Martin.  That was undisputed.  The jury found him not guilty because he acted in self defense.  Essentially, they said he is innocent of any crime because what he did was justified.  Said another way, no crime was committed.
 
2013-07-15 09:35:50 AM
I was watching a livestream of the Oakland rally last night via a protester livestream, when people started throwing things at the cops. The cops reasponded by firing rubber bullets into the crowd, at which point mass pandemonium ensued.

It was highly entertaining.
 
2013-07-15 09:39:32 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.
 
2013-07-15 09:41:26 AM
Does anyone know if this went through a Grand Jury first?
 
2013-07-15 09:42:02 AM

Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.


And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 
2013-07-15 09:42:34 AM

Diogenes: Does anyone know if this went through a Grand Jury first?


It didn't.

Angela Corey filed directly.
 
2013-07-15 09:42:46 AM
I would still like to know how and why Florida has juries of only 6 people.
 
2013-07-15 09:44:20 AM

vernonFL: I would still like to know how and why Florida has juries of only 6 people.


Varies on the charges.  Not sure why.

I was on a state case with 8.  Capital fraud against the state.  Go figure.
 
2013-07-15 09:44:38 AM

The Muthaship: Diogenes: Was OJ "innocent" too?  You know the difference.

I think you can say he was legally innocent in this case.  I know the finding is not guilty.  But, this is a self defense case.  There's no doubt he killed Martin.  That was undisputed.  The jury found him not guilty because he acted in self defense.

The prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self defense   Essentially, they said he is innocent  Not Guilty  of any crime because The prosecution could not prove  what he did was Not justified.  Said another way, no crime was proven to have been committed.


FTFY.  That is all that happened in that courtroom, and As I said I think the Jury was 100% correct in their conclusions based solely on the case presented.   I don;t for one second believe Zimmerman's account of what happened that night, but as the only other direct witness to the whole thing is dead, we're left with a lack of evidence.   What we do know is tht at best Zimmerman was obscenely reckless on that night.  Here was a man who in the words of his own defense was an incompetent wimp when it came to fighting or self defense, who nonetheless went out of his way to initate a sequence of events that lead to a physical confrontation.   He also happened to be carrying a gun.  Given his inabilityto physically defend himself, that course of action made it nearly inevitable the he'd have to use that gun based on those actions.
 
2013-07-15 09:47:02 AM

Magorn: FTFY


Either stop making sh*t up, or at least leave me out of your ramblings.

Thanks.
 
2013-07-15 09:48:05 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.


If Trayvon hadn't been casing houses while high on weed, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't made it safely to his home and then doubled back to confront Zim, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't launched a violent assault, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon had stopped his violent assault when told to by John Goode, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon was subject to a little discipline in his life and had been grounded, nothing would have happened.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this is fun!!!
 
2013-07-15 09:50:33 AM
I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.
 
2013-07-15 10:01:12 AM
C'mon people.  Let's see some of the old ultra-violence!  It's good television!  C'mon!  Guys?  Ok.  Maybe..throw a punch?  No?  Ok well let's start small.  Here.  Throw this trash can.  Maybe...can you just sneer at a cop maybe?  No?  Sigh.
 
2013-07-15 10:07:05 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Coming next: Fox News sponsors George Zimmerman to tour America's inner cities to call for increased understanding of his plight
 
2013-07-15 10:09:18 AM

Magorn: we're left with a lack of evidence.


Actually, there was plenty of evidence.  None of it cast any doubt on to George Zimmerman's version of what happened, and it's not like he had hours to cook up some story that would fit the evidence.

Granted, we don't have HD video with crystal clear audio taken from multiple angles of the incident in question, but that doesn't mean that there is no evidence.
 
2013-07-15 10:10:03 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Probably about as devastated as MSNBC is at the verdict.
 
2013-07-15 10:10:39 AM

dittybopper: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Probably about as devastated as MSNBC is at the verdict.


And I hasten to add that I'm happy both are disappointed.
 
2013-07-15 10:17:32 AM

The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?


I'm not surprised.  He was a dick to that kid in Ironman 3.
 
2013-07-15 10:19:04 AM
THIS IS NOT AN OUTRAGE!
 
2013-07-15 10:19:35 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Sharpton is giving them more than enough fodder
 
2013-07-15 10:19:40 AM

The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....


There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.
 
2013-07-15 10:19:42 AM
We also had some not rioting in our city.

What happened to all those farkers who were predicting (hoping for) riots all over?
 
2013-07-15 10:19:44 AM

Diogenes: Does anyone know if this went through a Grand Jury first?


It did not.
 
2013-07-15 10:19:57 AM

The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?


Personally, I would like Mr. Stark to remain in his own universe, where his drunk ass might still be considered an expert, and where innocent black teenagers are the ones fighting crime, rather than committing it/being subjected to it.

/Sweet Christmas.
 
2013-07-15 10:20:48 AM
If Martin went home, locked his door and called 911 this wouldn't of happened
 
2013-07-15 10:20:51 AM
OMFG!!! DON'T RUNNNNNN!

Why are people so NOT INSANE?!?
 
2013-07-15 10:21:07 AM
That's because no one cares.
 
2013-07-15 10:21:16 AM
because  merica agrees with the verdict and the race pimps and hustlers like sharpton and jackson are no longer welcome
 
2013-07-15 10:21:19 AM
Is this like when we were in Iraq and there were huge anti-war marches/rallies taking place that the media simply didn't cover? Just wondering. . . .
 
2013-07-15 10:21:24 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

Despite the media's best efforts.


Indeed, this.  I don't think I've ever seen such a concerted effort to stir up hate and incite violence by just about every major media outlet out there.  A very sad state of affairs.
 
2013-07-15 10:21:24 AM
anyone else think the verdict came in at an odd time?  Late at night on a weekend?
 
2013-07-15 10:21:32 AM
www.bet.com

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?
 
2013-07-15 10:21:54 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


Magorn you summed up the difference perfectly. The jury did its job of discerning whether or not the prosecution proved its case beyond any reasonable doubt. Prosecution, obviously, did not. This verdict does not in any way mean GZ is completely free or absolved of his action that resulted in the gunshot death of the teenage boy.
 
2013-07-15 10:21:54 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


I think the terrible statutory law coupled with the terrible arguments presented by the Prosecution - Zimmerman walked.

While it's impossible to know what exactly happened - we know that Zimmerman could have easily prevented the escalation. It's pretty obvious that neither Zimmerman nor Martin left looking for a fight so the fight should have been preventable.

But I never thought this would end in riots or widespread violence.
 
2013-07-15 10:21:55 AM

Popcorn Johnny: God Is My Co-Pirate: And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

If Trayvon hadn't been casing houses while high on weed, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't made it safely to his home and then doubled back to confront Zim, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't launched a violent assault, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon had stopped his violent assault when told to by John Goode, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon was subject to a little discipline in his life and had been grounded, nothing would have happened.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this is fun!!!


I always enjoy it when we cast aspersions on people we don't know, or haven't met, and then get all uppity on the internet telling other people not to do the same thing. You may be on a different side of the argument PJ, but don't think you aren't equally as detrimental as the people you're so quick to judge.
 
2013-07-15 10:22:21 AM
I had hoped that the news of Zimmerman's acquittal would have been the last thread we'd see on this, but some people just can't get the racism out of their heads and onto the internet fast enough.

Can't you racists just let it go? The kid's dead. You lost. It's over. Go home.
 
2013-07-15 10:22:24 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: We also had some not rioting in our city.

What happened to all those farkers who were predicting (hoping for) riots all over?


They were all arrested trying to get he PA system you're hearing today.
 
2013-07-15 10:22:25 AM

The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?


Drones stalk and murder.
they just cut out the confront part.
And the drones are coming for you, America.
 
2013-07-15 10:22:30 AM

I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


Zimmerman would face captial murder charges
 
2013-07-15 10:22:34 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

Despite the media's best efforts.


They prayed as hard as they could for the riots to happen.
 
2013-07-15 10:22:42 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News and CNN and MSNBC and just about every other TV and print media is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Fixed that for accuracy.
 
2013-07-15 10:22:52 AM
The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.
 
2013-07-15 10:23:08 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

Despite the media's best efforts.


Yeah right wing media was really pushing hard for it.
 
2013-07-15 10:23:19 AM
i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-15 10:23:35 AM
So the media is surprised that brown people didn't act like savages?
 
2013-07-15 10:24:01 AM

I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


If Martin were Hispanic and Zimmerman black the case would never have gone to trial because there wouldn't have been mass protests and the President would talk about how the victim would look like his son if he had one.
 
2013-07-15 10:24:19 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


I bet you and your friends are devastated no one gives a shiat about trayvon aside from "liking" something on facebook
 
2013-07-15 10:25:02 AM

soupafi: If Martin went home, locked his door and called 911 this wouldn't of happened


but I thought Florida said the correct response to being threatened was not to retreat but to "stand your ground"? Or is that only for Middle-aged white guys?
 
2013-07-15 10:25:05 AM
Don't tell Drudge. He's still pretending riots happened.
 
2013-07-15 10:25:09 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Well, Drudge is pretending they're happening.
 
2013-07-15 10:25:10 AM
Folks in my office were in an uproar for a solid 2 minutes this morning over the verdict. Now, nothing. Some think that the peaceful protests will turn to riots, tho. But I think enough people actually watched the trial to realize there's nothing to be butthurt about.
 
2013-07-15 10:25:14 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


It's not just Fox.  All of them want it to happen because of the ratings will be fantastic.  I just want them so there can be more assholes killing assholes.
 
2013-07-15 10:25:27 AM
I've got good news and bad news.

Good News: George Zimmerman is no longer Florida's problem. In fact, he's your brand new next door neighbor.

Bad News: He doesn't like your pets.  And is reading up on the defenses to Cruelty to an Animal.
 
2013-07-15 10:25:29 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.


If I heard correctly, in Florida if an acquittal happens, you can't sue in civil court
 
2013-07-15 10:25:36 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night?


Totally. Letting him go to a corner store was basically like murdering him themselves.
 
2013-07-15 10:25:37 AM

I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


I would hope for the same verdict.

/isn't zimmerman at least partly a black hispanic since his mom is 1/8th black?
 
2013-07-15 10:25:49 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Wut?
Fox News was not the one playing up the race angle from day one.
They were fair and balanced in their news coverage vs. some other networks who, no matter what was happening in the trial, were saying the prosecution did a great job.

You might want to check  if you have Fox Derangement Syndrome....but...but...but....FOX NEWS!
 
2013-07-15 10:26:08 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.


You've met them, then? I haven't. Really wanted to. But didn't get the chance. It must've been really nice to sit down with them, talk to them about the issue and get some insight into what they were thinking. And I'm glad you did that, because I certainly would never have been able to make a statement like the one you made without having some actual first hand evidence of what was going on before jumping to rash f*cking decisions toward something about which I know f*ck all.

You sir, are clown shoes.
 
2013-07-15 10:26:09 AM
Always fun to try people based on media reporting.  Certainly none of those outlets are biased or filter information before presenting.  Only a small number of people were privy to all the court proceedings and have access to all the information that was presented and/or omitted.  But by all means don't let that stop you from continuing to emphatically voice your partially informed thoughts on the matter.
 
2013-07-15 10:26:16 AM
That's because they timed the verdict beautifully on a Saturday night.
Most of those who would be rioting were already getting hammered.
 
2013-07-15 10:26:20 AM
There were so many farkers looking forward to riots too, that must be very disappointing for them.
 
2013-07-15 10:26:30 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Don't tell Drudge. He's still pretending riots happened.


They seem to have been very scattered and minor incidents.  And that is a good thing.
 
2013-07-15 10:26:30 AM
From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shocking.
 
2013-07-15 10:27:12 AM

vernonFL: I would still like to know how and why Florida has juries of only 6 people.


because only 9 showed up for jury duty and they needed 3 alternates.
 
2013-07-15 10:27:18 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home and sitting on top of Zimmerman, punching him and slamming his head into the pavement according to witnesses AND forensic evidencewhen he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


FTFY
 
2013-07-15 10:27:30 AM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.


That is some quality, quality trolling.
 
2013-07-15 10:27:41 AM

soupafi: To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.

If I heard correctly, in Florida if an acquittal happens, you can't sue in civil court


You can but if during the pre trial hearings it is determined to be a case of self defense the defendant is immune from prosecution and gets his legal fees covered.
 
2013-07-15 10:27:53 AM

soupafi: To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.

If I heard correctly, in Florida if an acquittal happens, you can't sue in civil court


Not only that, but apparently you can also collect lawyer's fees from someone who does try to sue you.
Heard that on the news yesterday from some legal guy.
 
2013-07-15 10:27:56 AM

soupafi: To The Escape Zeppelin!: The real people at fault here are Trayvon's parents. Your kid is suspended from school and your reaction is to let him go out and wander around the neighborhood at night? You didn't care enough to discipline him or make sure he was at school when he was alive but now that he's dead you see a big settlement in your future. Nice.

If I heard correctly, in Florida if an acquittal happens, you can't sue in civil court


I believe they already got a check from the homeowners assoc.
 
2013-07-15 10:28:13 AM
Meanwhile in Chicago...

i847.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-15 10:28:23 AM
Typical lazy blacks can't even riot correctly.  They're too busy drinking their drugs and driving to the welfare store to pick up their 50 checks for their pink Cadillac.  They are the REAL racists.

Why won't the media report that I'm the victim here?
 
2013-07-15 10:29:03 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


As delusional as you are if you think Trayvon was a sweet innocent kid who did no wrong.

Yes Zimmerman should have kept his busybody ass in the car so no one had to die but Trayvon escalated the situation to violence that gave Zimmerman the legal right to respond with lethal force.

You have bought the media idea that the prosecution bungled the job however the fact is they were trying to make Chicken Salad out of chicken shiat.

Trayvon Martin was killed, but he was not murdered.
 
2013-07-15 10:29:06 AM

The Muthaship: They seem to have been very scattered and minor incidents.


Indeed. But Drudge won't let that fact stop him from his ALL CAPS RACE WAR quest.
 
2013-07-15 10:29:11 AM
I think there are more tweeters upset about the lack of riots than there are farkers.
 
2013-07-15 10:29:13 AM

Keeve: and sitting on top of Zimmerman, punching him and slamming his head into the pavement according to witnesses AND forensic evidence


Look, just because there wasn't enough evidence to convict Zimmerman doesn't make his account correct.
 
2013-07-15 10:29:21 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

Despite the media's best efforts.


Maybe CNN could just cut out the middle man and have its staff start rioting.
 
2013-07-15 10:29:23 AM
 
2013-07-15 10:29:27 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News MSNBC is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted spent a year fueling with constant segments about how outrageous this is.


FTFY
 
2013-07-15 10:29:35 AM

AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...


Why doesn't Obama address THIS?
 
2013-07-15 10:29:36 AM
This is the absolute best advice you will see on this, and it is from a BLACK man:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFi0l--NPI
 
2013-07-15 10:29:38 AM
Black people were set to riot, but Painlessrisen gave 'em what for.

It doesn't matter anyway ... here's a fun fact: Soopermexican reports 11,106 black people have been murdered by other black people since Martin's death.
 
2013-07-15 10:30:03 AM

ShadowKamui: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Sharpton is giving them more than enough fodder


Al Sharpton is having a one man riot? He'd never be able to do it if it weren't for the weight loss.
 
2013-07-15 10:30:18 AM
www.theblindcard.com
 
2013-07-15 10:30:24 AM

R.A.Danny: So the media is surprised that brown people didn't act like savages?


Pretty much, yeah.  It's almost as if the media is part of the problem here.
 
2013-07-15 10:30:25 AM

The Muthaship: Dusk-You-n-Me: Don't tell Drudge. He's still pretending riots happened.

They seem to have been very scattered and minor incidents.  And that is a good thing.


Geesh, you think it is good that there are scattered riots?

No, a good thing is NO riots because people are civil.

You have a low bar for what you consider good.
 
2013-07-15 10:30:27 AM

AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]


That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?
 
2013-07-15 10:30:31 AM

soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges


In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband
 
2013-07-15 10:30:32 AM

Headso: There were so many farkers looking forward to riots too, that must be very disappointing for them.


And they were all completely unaware that their rhetoric was boilerplate white nationalist speak. It was a huge coincidence.
 
2013-07-15 10:31:13 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.


Perhaps they were both guilty of a crime. Unfortunately Zimmerman's the only one alive to prosecute for his.
 
2013-07-15 10:31:25 AM

AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]


Oddly I don't see a lot of stories out of Chicago where the killer said "It was self defense!" and the police go "Self defense you say?  Guess there's nothing more to do.  Cut'im loose Joe."
 
2013-07-15 10:31:35 AM

dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.


THIS

and call me gulible, but I think the PSAs about potential riots AND the fact that the parents themselves were asking the public to be peaceful MIGHT have helped prevent some of the rioting.
 
2013-07-15 10:31:42 AM

redmid17: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

I would hope for the same verdict.

/isn't zimmerman at least partly a black hispanic since his mom is 1/8th black?


OMG racist!!!
 
2013-07-15 10:31:47 AM

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


oh good, another person who doesn't understand that case.
 
2013-07-15 10:31:55 AM

ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.


Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.
 
2013-07-15 10:31:59 AM

neritz: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Well, Drudge is pretending they're happening.


Holy cow they are.  That's really sad.  My brother in law shouted out "go to Drudge, they get it right" when we were first hearing about the plane crash in S.F.   I just ignored him.  I tend to ignore him a lot lately.
 
2013-07-15 10:32:52 AM

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


Seriously, Mag?  We had a big thread on that lady yesterday...the one violating a restraining order while toting a gun.

I think the 20 years she got was WAY too much, but they're NOT comparable situations.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:01 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: You have a low bar for what you consider good.


Maybe my wording was poor.  I think it could have been way worse.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:04 AM

I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


Both their mothers would have some 'splainin to do?
 
2013-07-15 10:33:04 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News every cable news network is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


FIFY.  "Riot Porn" sells:  fires, cops in riot gear, tear gas = pulitzer gold, baby!  It's a chance for reporters without passports to act like foreign correspondents.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:09 AM

lifeboat: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News and CNN and MSNBC and just about every other TV and print media is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Fixed that for accuracy.


This

Not a single main stream news outlet wasn't salivating over the possibility of violence over the Zimmerman verdict. Oh sure, they would have spun the violence based on their political leanings, but don't think that they weren't all hot and bothered by the chance for some good ultraviolence.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:13 AM
All the windows in the Oakland Sears store were broken out on 1 side of the building..
 
2013-07-15 10:33:19 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.


That he was doing nothing wrong is hindsight talking. It's been established that while Zimmerman's reasons for suspecting him were thin, it is possible that they were within the bounds of reasonable suspicion. Since it was possible, that's what stands at trial.

But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.

Too many levels of indirection. Who chose to fight? That's the key question -the only thing that truly matters- and we have no way to answer it.

The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Manslaughter at the absolute worst. No one, but no one, found any way to demonstrate malice aforethought. The prosecution's conduct was indeed disgraceful, but bringing up a murder charge at the beginning was part of that: there was no way it was ever going to stick.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:21 AM
Wait, so in a universe where Martin is "white" (Jewish/Hispanic) and Zimmerman is black, Zimmerman would already be in jail?  This would mean that there is a black man with a job that is living with his wife, is volunteering in his community, is willing to call the police, legally acquired a handgun and shops at Target.  Yep.  That's crazy talk.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:22 AM

birchman: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

Perhaps they were both guilty of a crime. Unfortunately Zimmerman's the only one alive to prosecute for his.


And I'm sure Trayvon would prefer to be dead than convicted of what... maybe starting a fight? Or maybe defending himself?
 
2013-07-15 10:33:43 AM

Magorn: The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.


How would they have prosecuted successfully when Zimmerman was hiding behind one of the stupidest "right to kill" laws in the nation? The law is what it is:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

In Florida, it doesn't matter if your actions are what instigated a fight as long as they weren't violent. All that matters is that Martin was attacking Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him. The stalking and harassment are immaterial and it's not illegal to be a racist prick. And since Zimmerman killed the only other eyewitness to the start of the fight, it was his word against nobody's as to how the physical altercation actually started.

This is a simple case of a bunch of suburban Rambo wannabes throwing a brainless law on the books with no real regard for the potential consequences. Without any other eyewitness to the actual start of the physical fight I fail to see how the prosecution was going to do win this when they're fighting against such a broad law.
 
2013-07-15 10:33:53 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shockinUh



Somebody hacked into Dro's account it seems
 
2013-07-15 10:33:57 AM

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


Please read more details about the case. You don't help your argument using it as an example. If you are asked to leave, do so, come back with a gun and shoot randomly while your children are in the room you're going to have a bad time. 20 years is too long in my opinion but that wasn't self defense.
 
2013-07-15 10:34:05 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Headso: There were so many farkers looking forward to riots too, that must be very disappointing for them.

And they were all completely unaware that their rhetoric was boilerplate white nationalist speak. It was a huge coincidence.


Well, come on, their their pudgy sausage fingers double chins and melding man with the hoveround machine they are truly the superior race.
 
2013-07-15 10:34:08 AM

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


I don't know a lot about that case, but I thought I read that she left the house, got her gun, then came back inside?  Also, the sentencing guidelines are outrageous everywhere.  She got the minimum sentence for the crime she was found guilty of.

And here is Zimmerman again, showing his white Hispanic side and his black Hispanic side.

www.hispanicfanatic.com
 
2013-07-15 10:34:13 AM
One thing that bugged me throughout the trial

Why are there no recent pictures of Trayvon?

The media always seemed to use the picture of him as a 12 year old but he was 17 at the time of the shooting.  Did they not take any photographs of him for 5 years?
 
2013-07-15 10:34:14 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I had hoped that the news of Zimmerman's acquittal would have been the last thread we'd see on this, but some people just can't get the racism out of their heads and onto the internet fast enough.

Can't you racists just let it go? The kid's dead. You lost. It's over. Go home.


"You lost"? WTF?! This isn't a win-lose thing, pal. A CHILD IS DEAD!
 
2013-07-15 10:34:30 AM
I_C_Weener:

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


What if Zimmerman were white?
 
2013-07-15 10:34:43 AM

I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


5-15 years for manslaughter
 
2013-07-15 10:34:49 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: The Muthaship: Dusk-You-n-Me: Don't tell Drudge. He's still pretending riots happened.

They seem to have been very scattered and minor incidents.  And that is a good thing.

Geesh, you think it is good that there are scattered riots?

No, a good thing is NO riots because people are civil.

You have a low bar for what you consider good.


There are degrees. Small and scattered incidents are much, much better than full-blown massive rioting. In that context, they could indeed be called good.
 
2013-07-15 10:35:10 AM

JusticeandIndependence: neritz: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Well, Drudge is pretending they're happening.

Holy cow they are.  That's really sad.  My brother in law shouted out "go to Drudge, they get it right" when we were first hearing about the plane crash in S.F.   I just ignored him.  I tend to ignore him a lot lately.


Why would Drudge be better than any other source regarding a plane crash?  They have no reporters, no connections, and no expertise in aviation.  I can see going there for THE TRUTH about the libbo libtard MSM mainstream media, but why for something not related to confirmation bias?

Did they report that Obama's drones shot it down?
 
2013-07-15 10:35:24 AM
Following?  Well that's a beating!
 
2013-07-15 10:35:26 AM

Magorn: Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


At the end of the day we're left with two immutable facts. TM is dead and GZ killed him. Even though GZ was acquitted of all criminal charges, he's hardly innocent. He pulled the trigger and he killed someone.

The verdict was correct, based on the evidence presented and the prosecution failing to make their case. But it's pants on head stupid when people claim GZ is innocent.
 
2013-07-15 10:35:27 AM

Otto_E_Rodika: Wait, so in a universe where Martin is "white" (Jewish/Hispanic) and Zimmerman is black, Zimmerman would already be in jail?  This would mean that there is a black man with a job that is living with his wife, is volunteering in his community, is willing to call the police, legally acquired a handgun and shops at Target.  Yep.  That's crazy talk.


And people say race didn't play a role in this incident at all?
 
2013-07-15 10:35:40 AM

steerforth: You Zimmerfans are all appalling human beings.


I've put him on my Fantasy Gunfire team. I"m going to start him this weekend.

Zimmerfans?
 
2013-07-15 10:35:55 AM
It all boiled down to intent, and whether Zimmerman acted appropriately before the confrontation. He didn't, but they swung for the fences and went for a murder charge instead of the half dozen things on which they could have got a guilty verdict. A manslaughter 2 or 3 charge would have been likely because standing your ground when you actively pursue with a mind towards instigating a confrontation wasn't as likely to fly. But seeking out the kid to kill him and there being a fight ending in a murder conviction was really implausible. I wasn't expecting him to be convicted, but am pretty damn sure he wanted to ruin a black kid's night.
 
2013-07-15 10:35:59 AM

I_C_Weener: Diogenes: Does anyone know if this went through a Grand Jury first?

It did not.


Which speaks volumes.  The grand jury process is *HEAVILY* biased towards the prosecution, and yet the process was sidestepped even though there was a sitting grand jury that could have heard the case.

The case against Zimmerman was so weak that Angela Corey didn't want to risk a no-true-bill result.
 
2013-07-15 10:36:41 AM

Philip J. Fry: Oddly I don't see a lot of stories out of Chicago where the killer said "It was self defense!" and the police go "Self defense you say? Guess there's nothing more to do. Cut'im loose Joe."


And this is the other thing that everybody seems to have forgotten.

People were so pissed off initially because the cops completely bungled the investigation and let Zimmerman go without any serious or competent investigation. Initially everybody wanted him to have his day in court not just be turned loose because he said "b-b-b-but self defense!"

And that's happened now.
 
2013-07-15 10:36:52 AM
What are the protesters protesting?  Or are they just showing their dissatisfaction with the result of the trial?
 
2013-07-15 10:36:59 AM

vernonFL: I would still like to know how and why Florida has juries of only 6 people.


Carried by six or a jury of six.
 
2013-07-15 10:37:14 AM

mafiageek1980: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

THIS

and call me gulible, but I think the PSAs about potential riots AND the fact that the parents themselves were asking the public to be peaceful MIGHT have helped prevent some of the rioting.


No no no, that was all racist insults.

The black anchor on CNN said so.

/morans

There is precedent for riots to happen, and threats made which were taken seriously.  Hell, it's theorized the whole trial happened to help prevent riots in the first place, that this whole charade was put on to help alleviate the tension.
 
2013-07-15 10:37:28 AM

INeedAName: And I'm sure Trayvon would prefer to be dead than convicted of what... maybe starting a fight? Or maybe defending himself?


Probably, but as things currently stand, he doesn't mind. That's an important thing to remember: we cannot help him, and he cannot hurt us. Sending someone we can't be sure is guilty to prison helps no one.
 
2013-07-15 10:37:38 AM

soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges


Probably.

Read one analysis that was depressing:  If anything, this will lead to legislatures amending criminal codes to give more power to prosecutors more power to win convictions (like the ability to add/change charges during the trial).  This will lead to more convictions and incarcerations falling mostly on black males.
 
2013-07-15 10:37:42 AM

Witty_Retort: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

5-15 years for manslaughter


What if Zimmerman were an Asian woman with a milk allergy?
 
2013-07-15 10:38:01 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: ShadowKamui: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Sharpton is giving them more than enough fodder

Al Sharpton is having a one man riot? He'd never be able to do it if it weren't for the weight loss.


Oh Snap! My new band has just become Al Sharpton's One Man Riot.

Thanks for the inspiration.
 
2013-07-15 10:38:14 AM
Black folks know whats up... Trayvon was asking for it when he attacked.  Not a lot to be outraged about "When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong."
 
2013-07-15 10:38:17 AM
It would have been nice to see Zimmerman punished for his dickheadery but it's also nice the response to this injustice has been tempered.
 
2013-07-15 10:38:17 AM

BunkoSquad: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Coming next: Fox News sponsors George Zimmerman to tour America's inner cities to call for increased understanding of his plight


"He has been advised by our producers to wear the sandwich board from "Die Hard with a Vengeance" to advertise the latest release in that blockbuster series."
 
2013-07-15 10:38:27 AM

Digitalstrange: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

As delusional as you are if you think Trayvon was a sweet innocent kid who did no wrong.

Yes Zimmerman should have kept his busybody ass in the car so no one had to die but Trayvon escalated the situation to violence that gave Zimmerman the legal right to respond with lethal force.

You have bought the media idea that the prosecution bungled the job however the fact is they were trying to make Chicken Salad out of chicken shiat.

Trayvon Martin was killed, but he was not murdered.


FTFY
 
2013-07-15 10:38:53 AM

mafiageek1980: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

THIS

and call me gulible, but I think the PSAs about potential riots AND the fact that the parents themselves were asking the public to be peaceful MIGHT have helped prevent some of the rioting.


"Can't we all just get along?"
 
2013-07-15 10:39:26 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shocking.


The riots in LA after the Rodney King verdict were due to years and years of abuse of poorer and mostly minority citizens by the system and its enforcers, corrupt and abusive cops that percieved their job as fighting a war against those very people they were charged with protecting. That verdict was just the spark. The unrest was already at a boil just under the surface.
 
2013-07-15 10:39:32 AM

skozlaw: This is a simple case of a bunch of suburban Rambo wannabes throwing a brainless law on the books with no real regard for the potential consequences.


Actually, given the identical circumstances, Zimmerman would have likely been acquitted in nearly every other state.  Even in states where you have a duty to retreat, it's only required if you can do it in complete safety.  When George Zimmerman used deadly force (and it appears to be the *ONLY* time he used any significant force at all), he couldn't escape.  He was pinned to the ground by Trayvon Martin.
 
2013-07-15 10:39:43 AM

Millennium: Too many levels of indirection. Who chose to fight? That's the key question -the only thing that truly matters- and we have no way to answer it.


That's not even the question. You can start a fight, then simply murder the other person if you're "afraid".

Basically if you get in to a fight in Florida, shoot first.
 
2013-07-15 10:39:55 AM
The "minorities will riot if they don't get what they want" narrative isn't new.

Police fear riots if Barack Obama loses US election

8:01PM BST 23 Oct 2008
 
2013-07-15 10:40:29 AM

Millennium: tenpoundsofcheese: The Muthaship: Dusk-You-n-Me: Don't tell Drudge. He's still pretending riots happened.

They seem to have been very scattered and minor incidents.  And that is a good thing.

Geesh, you think it is good that there are scattered riots?

No, a good thing is NO riots because people are civil.

You have a low bar for what you consider good.

There are degrees. Small and scattered incidents are much, much better than full-blown massive rioting. In that context, they could indeed be called good.


only if you have low expectations of people.
 
2013-07-15 10:40:46 AM

Millennium: INeedAName: And I'm sure Trayvon would prefer to be dead than convicted of what... maybe starting a fight? Or maybe defending himself?

Probably, but as things currently stand, he doesn't mind. That's an important thing to remember: we cannot help him, and he cannot hurt us. Sending someone we can't be sure is guilty to prison helps no one.


He doesn't? So you spoke to him? Do you have a Ouija board?
 
2013-07-15 10:41:07 AM
I heard zimmerman wasn't even into guns until one day he saw pictures of some guy holding smith and wesson
 
2013-07-15 10:41:12 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.
 
2013-07-15 10:41:24 AM

Rapmaster2000: JusticeandIndependence: neritz: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Well, Drudge is pretending they're happening.

Holy cow they are.  That's really sad.  My brother in law shouted out "go to Drudge, they get it right" when we were first hearing about the plane crash in S.F.   I just ignored him.  I tend to ignore him a lot lately.

Why would Drudge be better than any other source regarding a plane crash?  They have no reporters, no connections, and no expertise in aviation.  I can see going there for THE TRUTH about the libbo libtard MSM mainstream media, but why for something not related to confirmation bias?

Did they report that Obama's drones shot it down?


Like I said, I ignored that statement.  We were traveling in a car at the time and I got out my phone when I heard about it.  He was in the back seat.

  He is a Rush L. fanatic who talks openly about how Fox News is better than every news channel.  My wife is as liberal as they come and they have interesting "discussions" around family gatherings.   I just watch and giggle like a schoolgirl.  Surprisingly his wife is not a Fox News watcher or voter.  It's a weird family dynamic.
 
2013-07-15 10:41:57 AM

PanicMan: R.A.Danny: So the media is surprised that brown people didn't act like savages?

Pretty much, yeah.  It's almost as if the media is part of the problem here.


No no no no no... The media always knows what is best for us and what we should think about everything.
 
2013-07-15 10:42:04 AM

MJMaloney187: Black people were set to riot, but Painlessrisen gave 'em what for.

It doesn't matter anyway ... here's a fun fact: Soopermexican reports 11,106 black people have been murdered by other black people since Martin's death.


And in those murders, police aggressively pursued the murderer and ARRESTED HIM. The head prosecutor CHARGED THEM and took tme to built a solid case and if they were black, more than likely the jury found them guilty. Normally a fight between two people that ends in the death of one of them is an open and shut case of two savages fighting for "street cred" but when wanna be cops shoot someone after getting their ass beat, its time to start examining the case closer to find out who threw the first punch.
 
2013-07-15 10:42:22 AM

dittybopper: I_C_Weener: Diogenes: Does anyone know if this went through a Grand Jury first?

It did not.

Which speaks volumes.  The grand jury process is *HEAVILY* biased towards the prosecution, and yet the process was sidestepped even though there was a sitting grand jury that could have heard the case.

The case against Zimmerman was so weak that Angela Corey didn't want to risk a no-true-bill result.


I watch a lot of Law & Order, so I'm practically a lawyer, but I have to ask:  if you can side-step a grand jury, then why bother with them as part of our legal process at all?  I thought an indictment from the grand jury was kind of a big deal?
 
2013-07-15 10:42:26 AM

I_C_Weener: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

I don't know a lot about that case, but I thought I read that she left the house, got her gun, then came back inside?  Also, the sentencing guidelines are outrageous everywhere.  She got the minimum sentence for the crime she was found guilty of.

And here is Zimmerman again, showing his white Hispanic side and his black Hispanic side.

[www.hispanicfanatic.com image 228x225]


Frankly it doesn't even matter if she got the gun and came back AS LONG AS she had a right to be wherever she was. She didn't have a right to be in the home. I agree with you that 20 years is effing ridiculous, but there is a reason why the jury took 12 minutes to convict her and the judge rejected her SYG claim.
 
2013-07-15 10:42:45 AM

Latinwolf: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.


Well that's certainly not because he's a young black male in a society which favors white people.
 
2013-07-15 10:43:18 AM

LandOfChocolate: One thing that bugged me throughout the trial

Why are there no recent pictures of Trayvon?

The media always seemed to use the picture of him as a 12 year old but he was 17 at the time of the shooting.  Did they not take any photographs of him for 5 years?


Same reason there's hardly any pictures of Adam Lanza ... neither really existed to begin with. It's like the MSM loves pulling Maupassant's THE NECKLACE ending ... "Sorry you got all worked up, but the story we gave you was a fake."

/derp ... (might as well get out in front of it)
 
2013-07-15 10:43:28 AM

99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.


Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.
 
2013-07-15 10:44:00 AM

skozlaw: Philip J. Fry: Oddly I don't see a lot of stories out of Chicago where the killer said "It was self defense!" and the police go "Self defense you say? Guess there's nothing more to do. Cut'im loose Joe."

And this is the other thing that everybody seems to have forgotten.

People were so pissed off initially because the cops completely bungled the investigation and let Zimmerman go without any serious or competent investigation. Initially everybody wanted him to have his day in court not just be turned loose because he said "b-b-b-but self defense!"

And that's happened now.


And the original police investigation was shown to have been competent, as the verdict in the trial indicates:  He acted in self-defense according to a jury of his peers.
 
2013-07-15 10:44:05 AM

LarryDan43: God Is My Co-Pirate: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

Despite the media's best efforts.

They prayed as hard as they could for the riots to happen.


Funny that's the impression I got from most of the Fark Zimmerman supporters.  I suspect so they could justify their "all black people are evil" mentality.
 
2013-07-15 10:44:16 AM

r1niceboy: It all boiled down to intent, and whether Zimmerman acted appropriately before the confrontation. He didn't,


How did he not act appropriately before the confrontation?
He did the same thing he did all the other times he called 911.  He observed, reported and kept track of where the person was so when the police showed up he could tell them where the person was.
 
2013-07-15 10:44:31 AM

Otto_E_Rodika: Wait, so in a universe where Martin is "white" (Jewish/Hispanic) and Zimmerman is black, Zimmerman would already be in jail?  This would mean that there is a black man with a job that is living with his wife, is volunteering in his community, is willing to call the police, legally acquired a handgun and shops at Target.  Yep.  That's crazy talk.


Here's the thing. If you all want to get butthurt over blacks not being treated fairly by the legal system, why not latch on to an actual case of this happening vs. trying to offer hypothetical situations on a case that is clearly self-defense. GZ didn't walk up to the guy and shoot him for walking. He confronted someone he thought was suspicious, got his ass beat, and saved himself from major injury or death.
 
2013-07-15 10:44:47 AM

RidersOfLohan: I heard zimmerman wasn't even into guns until one day he saw pictures of some guy holding smith and wesson


George Zimmerman was the man behind New Coke.
 
2013-07-15 10:44:54 AM
"The fact that there has been no sabotage at all is an ominous sign."
 
2013-07-15 10:44:55 AM

urbangirl: FTFY


Conveniently ignoring the truth of the situation is not fixing anything.

Violence perpetrated by a No Limit Youth is what led to his demise.  A violent path that he was on that even his friends warned him away from(the texts that were not admitted to the court talking about fighting).  Even Rachel told him to run, and she's barely self aware.
 
2013-07-15 10:45:11 AM
At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?
 
2013-07-15 10:45:27 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: r1niceboy: It all boiled down to intent, and whether Zimmerman acted appropriately before the confrontation. He didn't,

How did he not act appropriately before the confrontation?
He did the same thing he did all the other times he called 911.  He observed, reported and kept track of where the person was so when the police showed up he could tell them where the person body was.


FTFY
 
2013-07-15 10:45:35 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin

George Zimmerman was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  watching his neighborhood. But for Trayvon Martin actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did facts at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocentguilty of the murder of Martin

FTFY
 
2013-07-15 10:45:35 AM
If I were a "told you so" type of guy, this would be the thread where I pointed out "I told you so."

Because I totally told you so.
 
2013-07-15 10:45:35 AM

Popcorn Johnny: God Is My Co-Pirate: And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

If Trayvon hadn't been casing houses while high on weed, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't made it safely to his home and then doubled back to confront Zim, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't launched a violent assault, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon had stopped his violent assault when told to by John Goode, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon was subject to a little discipline in his life and had been grounded, nothing would have happened.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this is fun!!!


I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

To my knowledge, the claim that Mr. Martin had arrived at his father's home before departing to confront Mr. Zimmerman is, while based upon testimony by a witness for the prosecution, not fully confirmed.
 
2013-07-15 10:45:37 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin



Because when you are attacked by some guy that wants to bash your skull into the sidewalk, you need to accept it....
 
2013-07-15 10:45:39 AM

Latinwolf: Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.


We do know he was up to no good when George Zimmerman pulled the trigger, and that's good enough for a finding of self-defense.
 
2013-07-15 10:46:15 AM
Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.

All of that MMA training, working out and all of his ITG  bravado and yet he still lets the  teenager biatch slap him to the ground where all he can do is scream like a little girl with her panties in a bunch until he shoots  the  kid.

Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight
 
2013-07-15 10:46:46 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.

Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.


If the jury had the option of choosing completely innocent like MOM wanted they might have picked it. As it stands the picked the only option they could to say Zimmerman wasn't criminally liable for shooting Martin.
 
2013-07-15 10:47:05 AM

skozlaw: Magorn: The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.

How would they have prosecuted successfully when Zimmerman was hiding behind one of the stupidest "right to kill" laws in the nation? The law is what it is:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

In Florida, it doesn't matter if your actions are what instigated a fight as long as they weren't violent. All that matters is that Martin was attacking Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him. The stalking and harassment are immaterial and it's not illegal to be a racist prick. And since Zimmerman killed the only other eyewitness to the start of the fight, it was his word against nobody's as to how the physical altercation actually started.

This is a simple case of a bunch of suburban Rambo wannabes throwing a brainless law on the books with no real regard for the potential consequences. Without any other eyewitness to the actual start of the physical fight I fail to see how the prosecution was going to do win this when they're fighting against such a broad law.


You are correct. If Florida law required citizens who are subjected to a violent attack to endure the assault without engaging in action that may injure or kill their attacker, Mr. Martin may still be alive today. Hopefully, federal legislation will be proposed to correct the matter and protect the rights of violent attackers.
 
2013-07-15 10:47:32 AM

Latinwolf: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.


Funny how your strawman is not based on reality.
If you need a strawman that is that lame to support your viewpoint, maybe your viewpoint is exceptionally weak.
 
2013-07-15 10:47:43 AM

dr_blasto: DROxINxTHExWIND: From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shocking.

The riots in LA after the Rodney King verdict were due to years and years of abuse of poorer and mostly minority citizens by the system and its enforcers, corrupt and abusive cops that percieved their job as fighting a war against those very people they were charged with protecting. That verdict was just the spark. The unrest was already at a boil just under the surface.


Yep.  Plus there was a video of Rodney King.  There is no video here.
 
2013-07-15 10:48:14 AM
Someone needs to talk sense into all of the rioters. Oh wait, that'll never happen since they are being taken advantage of by the African American leaders who know the verdict is correct.
 
2013-07-15 10:48:23 AM

Azlefty: Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.

All of that MMA training, working out and all of his ITG  bravado and yet he still lets the  teenager biatch slap him to the ground where all he can do is scream like a little girl with her panties in a bunch until he shoots  the  kid.

Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight


Pretty much. It is terrible that physically weaker people can use a gun when being over powered by an attacker. They should just take their beating then hit the gym.
 
2013-07-15 10:48:38 AM

GORDON: Black folks know whats up... Trayvon was asking for it when he attacked.  Not a lot to be outraged about "When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong."


LOL. The worst part about the internet is it gives weak people a platform to say things that they could not and would not anywhere else. Black people mut not be too bad to you since you obviously watched the Chapelle Show. I guess he's one of he good ones?
 
2013-07-15 10:48:44 AM
This has been one of the more shameful things concocted by this administration.  If they continue to pursue it in federal court, I think it will ultimately come back to bite them in the ass.

/and Harry Reid ought to be ashamed
//but, I don't think he has the capacity
 
2013-07-15 10:49:41 AM

Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.


Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?
 
2013-07-15 10:49:43 AM

Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?


So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?
 
2013-07-15 10:49:46 AM

Azlefty: Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.


*TWEEEEET*

Markley's Law violation.  Fifteen yard penalty, and loss of argument.
 
2013-07-15 10:49:47 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.


And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.  Mind you the last time I pointed this out I was accused of playing the race card by one of the very same farkers who was running around saying "Black people will riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty".
 
2013-07-15 10:49:59 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.

Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.


OK, so it's actually "Not guilty until proven guilty". I'm glad you cleared that up.  People have been getting it wrong for YEARS.

By the way, sport, there's no such thing as a verdict of "Innocent".  However, if you are "Innocent until proven guilty" and you are not proven guilty (ergo, you never GET TO the "until proven guilty" part), you're still at "innocent".
 
2013-07-15 10:50:23 AM
DROxINxTHExWIND

The worst part about the internet is it gives weak people a platform to say things that they could not and would not anywhere else.

Like all the "Imma gon riot" people. They didn't; they won't. Just ITGs talking shiat behind a keyboard/phone in 140 characters of impotent rage.
 
2013-07-15 10:50:28 AM

Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.


Well, the benefit is that the NAACP and other race based organizations will make millions in fundraising off the verdict.
 
2013-07-15 10:50:39 AM
Submitter sounds dissappointed.
 
2013-07-15 10:51:43 AM

Carth: Azlefty: Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.

All of that MMA training, working out and all of his ITG  bravado and yet he still lets the  teenager biatch slap him to the ground where all he can do is scream like a little girl with her panties in a bunch until he shoots  the  kid.

Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight

Pretty much. It is terrible that physically weaker people can use a gun when being over powered by an attacker. They should just take their beating then hit the gym.


Or accept they are a pussy and not confront strangers because they think they may be up to no good.
 
2013-07-15 10:51:46 AM

The Muthaship: This has been one of the more shameful things concocted by this administration.  If they continue to pursue it in federal court, I think it will ultimately come back to bite them in the ass.

/and Harry Reid ought to be ashamed
//but, I don't think he has the capacity


Are you in the correct thread?
 
2013-07-15 10:52:18 AM

omeganuepsilon: urbangirl: FTFY

Conveniently ignoring the truth of the situation is not fixing anything.

Violence perpetrated by a No Limit Youth is what led to his demise.  A violent path that he was on that even his friends warned him away from(the texts that were not admitted to the court talking about fighting).  Even Rachel told him to run, and she's barely self aware.


You're absolutely right.  I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist.  And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.
 
2013-07-15 10:52:19 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior.


But he's always calling the cops, everything was suspicious.
 
2013-07-15 10:52:39 AM

Diogenes: Popcorn Johnny: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

100% innocent not guilty in the lawful killing of the Skittles kid.

Was OJ "innocent" too?  You know the difference.


As innocent as Casey Anthony and Robert Blake. Seems like California and Florida are the best places to get away with murder.
 
2013-07-15 10:52:59 AM

born_yesterday: dittybopper: I_C_Weener: Diogenes: Does anyone know if this went through a Grand Jury first?

It did not.

Which speaks volumes.  The grand jury process is *HEAVILY* biased towards the prosecution, and yet the process was sidestepped even though there was a sitting grand jury that could have heard the case.

The case against Zimmerman was so weak that Angela Corey didn't want to risk a no-true-bill result.

I watch a lot of Law & Order, so I'm practically a lawyer, but I have to ask:  if you can side-step a grand jury, then why bother with them as part of our legal process at all?  I thought an indictment from the grand jury was kind of a big deal?


There sre two ways of Charging a subject in most jurisdictions: 1) by indictment form a Grand Jury  2) by the Filing of a "criminal information" by the prosecutor.

The reason you use a Grand Jury in such jurisdictions is 1) to test out questionable fact patterns/ give prosecutors politcal cover 2) to avoid a "preliminary hearing" that the defendant is entitled to if you file by criminal information.

a Preliminary hearing is essenitally a mini-trial in which the prosecution has to give a preview of all their evidence ti the judge to convince them there is probable cause to charge.  The defense is entitled to be present at this hearing and cross-examine witnesses-somethng they don;t get to do with a grand Jury
 
2013-07-15 10:53:22 AM

Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.  Mind you the last time I pointed this out I was accused of playing the race card by one of the very same farkers who was running around saying "Black people will riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty".


Still confused on the whole confront vs assault i see, maybe you can have someone explain it to you?
 
2013-07-15 10:53:32 AM
The Muthaship: ... no crime was committed.

That isn't what a finding of "not guilty" means.  It means the jury of six people found that there was not a "reasonable doubt" that particular charged crimes were committed.  So Zimmerman won't face any criminal punishment for the particular charged crimes.

However, a finding of "not guilty" is not always correct.  Juries make mistakes.  Sometimes they rule that self-defense was a justifiable excuse for action, when it reality it may not have been.  Sometimes the jury doesn't have enough information to determine what really happened.  In this case, it appears the only information the jury really had about the events preceding the homicide is what Zimmerman himself reported to the police.  Those statement may or may not have been true, but obviously the jury felt there was enough doubt surrounding the case that prevented them from a conviction of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

We know many times that juries are wrong.  Hundreds of convicted murderers have been set free from death row after many years behind bars after DNA evidence absolved them of crimes.  There have also been many cases where people have been found not-guilty when in fact they did commit the crimes.

I don't necessarily think the jury made a mistake.  I don't know what happened that night and I didn't hear all of the evidence.  I just know that it's certainly well within the reason of possibility that the jury erred.
 
2013-07-15 10:53:33 AM
No riots because Zimmerman is not white.

/Haven't followed the story.
 
2013-07-15 10:53:44 AM

I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?


I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

The law is retarded.
 
2013-07-15 10:53:57 AM

Headso: Popcorn Johnny: Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior.

But he's always calling the cops, everything was suspicious.


A neighborhood watch volunteer calling the police?  That's just plain ridiculous!
 
2013-07-15 10:54:10 AM

urbangirl: You're absolutely right.  I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist.  And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.


Ignorantly sarcastic is my favorite kind of sarcastic.
 
2013-07-15 10:54:21 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I had hoped that the news of Zimmerman's acquittal would have been the last thread we'd see on this, but some people just can't get the racism out of their heads and onto the internet fast enough.

Can't you racists just let it go? The kid's dead. You lost. It's over. Go home.


Sneaky way of trying to say only the black people involved in this are racist.  Says a lot about you.
 
2013-07-15 10:54:48 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?


Yes. Some of us actually work with black urban youth, and the non-verbal responses I see in grown adults, every day, when a young black man walks up to them and begins a conversation is repulsive. People grab their purses or pat their pockets to check for their wallets, they step back, they close off their body language, they start to look around for some reason to leave the conversation. It's amazing.

Very few people in this country and 'actively' racist, but we live our lives with stereotypes so deeply ingrained in our subconscious, it's hard to not respond to them. Zimmerman responded to his.
 
2013-07-15 10:55:15 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: GORDON: Black folks know whats up... Trayvon was asking for it when he attacked.  Not a lot to be outraged about "When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong."

LOL. The worst part about the internet is it gives weak people a platform to say things that they could not and would not anywhere else. Black people mut not be too bad to you since you obviously watched the Chapelle Show. I guess he's one of he good ones?


And every other non violent and intelligent one who's not spewing some kind of reverse racism.  See, if we judge an individual based on their actions, regardless of their skin color of them or the victims, it's not racism.  That's what you seem to have a problem with.

Treyvon was committing assault and battery.  He got shot because of it.  End of story.  Well, until the lawyers and media wanted to glorify the non-story as some race crusade and gain uninformed and prejudicial people like you to rally behind them with screams about racism that's non-existent.
 
2013-07-15 10:55:21 AM

Cletus C.: Carth: Azlefty: Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.

All of that MMA training, working out and all of his ITG  bravado and yet he still lets the  teenager biatch slap him to the ground where all he can do is scream like a little girl with her panties in a bunch until he shoots  the  kid.

Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight

Pretty much. It is terrible that physically weaker people can use a gun when being over powered by an attacker. They should just take their beating then hit the gym.

Or accept they are a pussy and not confront strangers because they think they may be up to no good.


And if, as they claim, they were jumped and attacked? Then it is their fault for calling to report suspicious behavior right? As long as you don't violate laws you shouldn't have to deal with getting beaten up.

If a women is attacked and overpowered she can still use a gun right? It is only men who are pussies for being unable to fight?
 
2013-07-15 10:55:36 AM

I_C_Weener: steerforth: You Zimmerfans are all appalling human beings.

I've put him on my Fantasy Gunfire team. I"m going to start him this weekend.

Zimmerfans?


Deleted? Attempted to start a flame war?
 
2013-07-15 10:55:51 AM

Gunny Highway: What are the protesters protesting?  Or are they just showing their dissatisfaction with the result of the trial?


The protesters are upset that their own preconceived notions about what occurred on the night of Mr. Martin's death are not shared a jury who were presented with evidence, who heard testimony from witnesses and who heard arguments from a prosecuting attorney attempting to prove a criminal act.
 
2013-07-15 10:55:53 AM
oi41.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-15 10:56:17 AM
If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him. We all know that's what happened here, it just can't be proven. Zimmerman picked a fight, got punched, and he killed the kid.
 
2013-07-15 10:56:24 AM

Latinwolf: AverageAmericanGuy: I had hoped that the news of Zimmerman's acquittal would have been the last thread we'd see on this, but some people just can't get the racism out of their heads and onto the internet fast enough.

Can't you racists just let it go? The kid's dead. You lost. It's over. Go home.

Sneaky way of trying to say only the black people involved in this are racist.  Says a lot about you.


Yes. It says that he is indeed an Average American.
 
2013-07-15 10:56:25 AM
Reading this thread, its apparent that the education gap in America is definitely not all tied to race. There are some pretty ignorant folks.
 
2013-07-15 10:56:45 AM

Phil McKraken: I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.


Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?  

If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

The law is retarded.

Actually it's eminently sensible.
 
2013-07-15 10:57:13 AM
Viva La George,

עבודה נהדרת ג'ורג'
 
2013-07-15 10:57:14 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


Well, he is legally innocent. That's one way...
 
2013-07-15 10:57:56 AM

Carth: Cletus C.: Carth: Azlefty: Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.

All of that MMA training, working out and all of his ITG  bravado and yet he still lets the  teenager biatch slap him to the ground where all he can do is scream like a little girl with her panties in a bunch until he shoots  the  kid.

Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight

Pretty much. It is terrible that physically weaker people can use a gun when being over powered by an attacker. They should just take their beating then hit the gym.

Or accept they are a pussy and not confront strangers because they think they may be up to no good.

And if, as they claim, they were jumped and attacked? Then it is their fault for calling to report suspicious behavior right? As long as you don't violate laws you shouldn't have to deal with getting beaten up.

If a women is attacked and overpowered she can still use a gun right? It is only men who are pussies for being unable to fight?


Neighborhood creep following a teen around in the dark with a loaded gun. Creep has no fighting skills but puts himself in a situation where there's probably going to be a fight. What could go wrong?

Not a lot of women, or men, would do the stupid shiat Zimmerman did that night. Thankfully.
 
2013-07-15 10:58:02 AM
Cletus C.

Or accept they are a pussy and not confront strangers...

Not confronting strangers is easy. Avoiding strangers confronting you is a bit more difficult, it would seem. He didn't try terribly hard at it, but still.

urbangirl

I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist. And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.


What's really funny is that this isn't what happened.
 
2013-07-15 10:58:05 AM
Called it.  I knew no one would riot.  All Americans have become much too complacent for that (not to mention the inherent racism implied in AA rioting).  We just talk shiat on social media.  If we were ever to face another civil war, I would assume it would start with a facebook page that said "revolution, like if you're for it, leave a comment if you disagree."
 
2013-07-15 10:58:22 AM
Here's another sound prediction.

"With today's social media I fully expect organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades," wrote

WTF is this shiat?
 
2013-07-15 10:58:28 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


Seriously?  After this many threads and the trial being broadcast live, you STILL can't get the facts of the event straight?
 
2013-07-15 10:58:48 AM

dittybopper: Actually, given the identical circumstances, Zimmerman would have likely been acquitted in nearly every other state. Even in states where you have a duty to retreat, it's only required if you can do it in complete safety. When George Zimmerman used deadly force (and it appears to be the *ONLY* time he used any significant force at all), he couldn't escape. He was pinned to the ground by Trayvon Martin.


I'm not disagreeing. My point is that I have a fundamental problem with any law that says you can instigate a fight and then kill the other person as long as you use what effectively comes down to the playground taunt of "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!"

There has to be some reasonable balance. Zimmerman is clearly a complete and racist prick, but that's not illegal even though it seems to be what a lot of people are basing their belief about his guilt or innocence on.

It IS illegal to stalk and harass a person though, and there should be consequences for that weighed against Martin's (possible) overreaction.

Duty to retreat laws are retarded, but right to kill is just as bad. When two people engage in irresponsible or destructive actions that lead to the death of one of them, they should both be held accountable for their roles, one person shouldn't get to claim immunity for his part just because he shot last.

dittybopper: And the original police investigation was shown to have been competent, as the verdict in the trial indicates: He acted in self-defense according to a jury of his peers.


No, that's not true at all and flies directly in the face of all known applications of human logic. I could take a wild guess at a person's guilt or innocence with no evidence at all or even knowing what they are accused of. If I'm correct after the trial, that doesn't mean my method was sound.

Dimensio: [pointless and childish strawman redacted]


Did you actually have some point you wanted to make or are you just being ignorant to try and pick a fight?
 
2013-07-15 10:59:00 AM

The Muthaship: urbangirl: You're absolutely right.  I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist.  And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.

Ignorantly sarcastic is my favorite kind of sarcastic.


Please, please enlighten me.  What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?
 
2013-07-15 10:59:03 AM

Rapmaster2000: Here's another sound prediction.

"With today's social media I fully expect organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades," wrote

WTF is this shiat?


Really should have previewed that:

"With today's social media I fully expect organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades," wrote retired cop/pundit Paul Huebl after the Rachel Jeantel testimony sparked a wave of distressed tweets from black users. "If you live in a large city be prepared to evacuate or put up a fight to win. You will need firearms, fire suppression equipment along with lots of food and water.  Police resources will be slow and outgunned everywhere. America is about to see some combat related population control like we've not seen since the Civil War. Martial Law can't be far behind complete with major efforts at gun grabbing."
 
2013-07-15 10:59:28 AM

I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


Good point. Obviously in that alternate universe Zimmerman would have been arrested and brought to trial and a black person would automatically be president.

Oh, wait...
 
2013-07-15 10:59:33 AM

Albert911emt: If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him.


And you'd have been in the wrong, both legally and morally.
 
2013-07-15 10:59:34 AM

Magnus: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Seriously?  After this many threads and the trial being broadcast live, you STILL can't get the facts of the event straight?


I think it is that some people just don't want to get the facts straight.
 
2013-07-15 10:59:57 AM

dittybopper: skozlaw: This is a simple case of a bunch of suburban Rambo wannabes throwing a brainless law on the books with no real regard for the potential consequences.

Actually, given the identical circumstances, Zimmerman would have likely been acquitted in nearly every other state.  Even in states where you have a duty to retreat, it's only required if you can do it in complete safety.  When George Zimmerman used deadly force (and it appears to be the *ONLY* time he used any significant force at all), he couldn't escape.  He was pinned to the ground by Trayvon Martin.


While you may claim that, and while physical evidence might seem to corroborate such a claim, and while a witness to the incident may have issued testimony consistent with the claim, the fevered imaginations of amateur analysts who are certain that Mr. Zimmerman exited his truck with the intention of hunting down and killing a black individual prior to confronting Mr. Martin, insulting Mr. Martin's mother and demanding that Mr. Martin call himself "Toby" before shooting Mr. Martin in the chest, then striking himself in the face several times before slamming his own head against the sidewalk should be be given equal consideration, for sake of fairness.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:08 AM
I'm simply stunned, yes, stunned at the inability of the J4T's to accept the fact that George Zimmerman was justified in killing T.
Perhaps learning to accept the fact that you can be wrong sometimes is a sign of personal growth, and is an indication of a healthy personality.
Questioning the jury decision and postulating any number of bizzaro world hypothetical scenarios only makes you look pitiful and weak.
Stop it, or was pitiful and weak the effect you were hoping for?
I don't give a rotund rodent's rosy red rectum, trial over, win for ZAC.
I had pancakes this morning, but did put blackstrap molasses on it in honor of Traygone.
Hey, you can say what you want, but it was one hell of a digging job to get enough mole asses to cover my pancakes.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:19 AM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
Apparently it's not just Fark.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:32 AM

Facetious_Speciest: DROxINxTHExWIND

The worst part about the internet is it gives weak people a platform to say things that they could not and would not anywhere else.

Like all the "Imma gon riot" people. They didn't; they won't. Just ITGs talking shiat behind a keyboard/phone in 140 characters of impotent rage.


Last week those tweets were being posted as evidence of the coming race war and the ignorance of black poeple. Today, they were all just ITGs, huh? Smh.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:37 AM

urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?


All of it.

But, you aren't alone.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:38 AM
dittybopper:
If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.


It's as easy as shooting Zimmerman and then claiming self defense - even if it's a lie. No one disputes that Zimmerman was following Martin, a provocative act that Zimmerman should have recognized as such and let the police do their jobs.
 
2013-07-15 11:00:55 AM
It just shows AGAIN how racist everyone is!
 
2013-07-15 11:01:01 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Millennium: Too many levels of indirection. Who chose to fight? That's the key question -the only thing that truly matters- and we have no way to answer it.

That's not even the question. You can start a fight, then simply murder the other person if you're "afraid".

Basically if you get in to a fight in Florida, shoot first.


Instigating a physical altercation eliminates justification for use of deadly force during the altercation.
 
2013-07-15 11:01:05 AM

dittybopper: Headso: Popcorn Johnny: Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior.

But he's always calling the cops, everything was suspicious.

A neighborhood watch volunteer calling the police?  That's just plain ridiculous!


A lot of the calls are pretty specious on the reasoning... reads like a call log from an elderly woman.
 
2013-07-15 11:01:15 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: I think it is that some people just don't want to get the facts straight.


Public discourse about events such as these has little to do with facts.
 
2013-07-15 11:01:31 AM

Cletus C.: Carth: Cletus C.: Carth: Azlefty: Sadly Zimmerman is the  poster child for those who actually use the  gun as a peener replacement.

All of that MMA training, working out and all of his ITG  bravado and yet he still lets the  teenager biatch slap him to the ground where all he can do is scream like a little girl with her panties in a bunch until he shoots  the  kid.

Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight

Pretty much. It is terrible that physically weaker people can use a gun when being over powered by an attacker. They should just take their beating then hit the gym.

Or accept they are a pussy and not confront strangers because they think they may be up to no good.

And if, as they claim, they were jumped and attacked? Then it is their fault for calling to report suspicious behavior right? As long as you don't violate laws you shouldn't have to deal with getting beaten up.

If a women is attacked and overpowered she can still use a gun right? It is only men who are pussies for being unable to fight?

Neighborhood creep following a teen around in the dark with a loaded gun. Creep has no fighting skills but puts himself in a situation where there's probably going to be a fight. What could go wrong?

Not a lot of women, or men, would do the stupid shiat Zimmerman did that night. Thankfully.


You mean the guy who did volunteer work in the community and spent his time tutoring low income children? That creep?
Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

You're right about one thing most people wouldn't bother calling 911 if they  they saw someone suspicious. They'd rather not get involved.
 
2013-07-15 11:01:32 AM
Handy tip: Don't suckerpunch a rambo wanna-be with a gun in a gated community. You'll be shot.
 
2013-07-15 11:01:39 AM
What's amazing about this, and I wonder why it didn't come out at trial, but Trayvon Martin had pictures of himself in a safe deposit box, and on the back was written "if I turn up dead, Zimmerman started it".
 
2013-07-15 11:01:50 AM

Latinwolf: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.


You are correct, as is evident by the lack of any legal prohibition against punching individuals in the face.
 
2013-07-15 11:01:52 AM

99sportster: Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.

Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.

OK, so it's actually "Not guilty until proven guilty". I'm glad you cleared that up.  People have been getting it wrong for YEARS.

By the way, sport, there's no such thing as a verdict of "Innocent".  However, if you are "Innocent until proven guilty" and you are not proven guilty (ergo, you never GET TO the "until proven guilty" part), you're still at "innocent".

s

Being found not guilty of a crime, is not the same as being innocent. Never has been, despite the innocent until proven guilty phrase. It's an immutable fact that Zimmerman killed Martin. The circumstances were judged to be not a criminal offense, but he's not innocent of killing Martin.

Lots of people who actually have committed crimes have been acquitted because the prosecution couldn't make it case. That doesn't mean they didn't do what they were accused of. All that means is that there wasn't enough to make a criminal charge stick. Likewise, people who are found guilty of crimes, may have not actually done the things they got charged for. That means they are innocent.

So like I said, get back to us when you actually understand that being found not guilty of a crime doesn't mean someone is innocent.
 
2013-07-15 11:02:47 AM

Dimensio: HotWingConspiracy: Millennium: Too many levels of indirection. Who chose to fight? That's the key question -the only thing that truly matters- and we have no way to answer it.

That's not even the question. You can start a fight, then simply murder the other person if you're "afraid".

Basically if you get in to a fight in Florida, shoot first.

Instigating a physical altercation eliminates justification for use of deadly force during the altercation.


The survivor is always going to lie to avoid penalty.
 
2013-07-15 11:03:07 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I had hoped that the news of Zimmerman's acquittal would have been the last thread we'd see on this, but some people just can't get the racism out of their heads and onto the internet fast enough.

Can't you racists just let it go? The kid's dead. You lost. It's over. Go home.


AAG is just trying to keep the flames of non-violent behavior at bay. We should heed the advice.
 
2013-07-15 11:03:19 AM
DROxINxTHExWIND

Last week those tweets were being posted as evidence of the coming race war and the ignorance of black poeple. Today, they were all just ITGs, huh? Smh.

Please stop conflating everyone with a similar skin tone. I never did the things you accuse me of. Your racism is lazy.
 
2013-07-15 11:03:21 AM

Dimensio: HotWingConspiracy: Millennium: Too many levels of indirection. Who chose to fight? That's the key question -the only thing that truly matters- and we have no way to answer it.

That's not even the question. You can start a fight, then simply murder the other person if you're "afraid".

Basically if you get in to a fight in Florida, shoot first.

Instigating a physical altercation eliminates justification for use of deadly force during the altercation.


Not in Florida.
 
2013-07-15 11:04:08 AM

Albert911emt: If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him. We all know that's what happened here, it just can't be proven. Zimmerman picked a fight, got punched, and he killed the kid.


The best course of action is to get away from the person following you, while calling 911 to report it.
 
2013-07-15 11:04:22 AM

Magorn: What we do know is tht at best Zimmerman was obscenely reckless


He was only obscenely reckless if you believe that following a black man at night is obscenely reckless.

Do you?
 
2013-07-15 11:04:33 AM

joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?


The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.
 
2013-07-15 11:04:39 AM
I've been avoiding these threads on purpose, and now that it's over my general feeling is:

www.poojadang.com

The laws were bad, the lawyers were bad, both people involved were not good people. The evidence was not enough to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do I believe Zimmerman should have gotten some jail time for stalking and confronting someone? Yup.
Would I have felt the same way if Martin had "stood his ground" against Zimmerman and shot him instead... Maybe, but it didn't happen that way.
Would both have been legal under Florida law? Quite likely.

It's a new era of gun law, and there's going to be discourse and debate over the where the line should be drawn. I'm not blowing my wad at the first battle, it'll be a long war.

But that race stuff. If one of them had been white, you bet it would have been a different case, with different outcomes, and a riot of some kind more likely. That's an elephant that sat right in the middle of the courtroom. That's a battle that's ramping up right now, and we're going to hear a lot more about it over the next few years.
 
2013-07-15 11:04:48 AM

Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?


The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.
 
2013-07-15 11:04:57 AM
Of course there were no riots or anything. I'm glad America is finally unified about something, supporting the jury's verdict 100%. In a way, Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman have brought us all together again.

Thanks, guys!
 
2013-07-15 11:05:29 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: So like I said, get back to us when you actually understand that being found not guilty of a crime doesn't mean someone is innocent.


Is jeopardy attached? Isn't Zimmerman innocent in the eyes of the law?

That Zimmerman is innocent of premeditated murder seems rather plausible - However a killing obviously took place, and his finger pulled the trigger.
 
2013-07-15 11:05:39 AM

Popcorn Johnny: God Is My Co-Pirate: And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

If Trayvon hadn't been casing houses while high on weed, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't made it safely to his home and then doubled back to confront Zim, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't launched a violent assault, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon had stopped his violent assault when told to by John Goode, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon was subject to a little discipline in his life and had been grounded, nothing would have happened.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this is fun!!!


Do you have any evidence to back up those claims?

No? Then STFU you dumbass.

/thought it was a troll, till I saw who posted it
//still a troll anyways
 
2013-07-15 11:05:41 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.

Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.

OK, so it's actually "Not guilty until proven guilty". I'm glad you cleared that up.  People have been getting it wrong for YEARS.

By the way, sport, there's no such thing as a verdict of "Innocent".  However, if you are "Innocent until proven guilty" and you are not proven guilty (ergo, you never GET TO the "until proven guilty" part), you're still at "innocent".s

Being found not guilty of a crime, is not the same as being innocent. Never has been, despite the innocent until proven guilty phrase. It's an immutable fact that Zimmerman killed Martin. The circumstances were judged to be not a criminal offense, but he's not innocent of killing Martin.

Lots of people who actually have committed crimes have been acquitted because the prosecution couldn't make it case. That doesn't mean they didn't do what they were accused of. All that means is that there wasn't enough to make a criminal charge stick. Likewise, people who are found guilty of crimes, may have not actually done the things they got charged for. That means they are innocent.

So like I said, get back to us when you actually understand that being found not guilty of a crime doesn't mean someone is innocent.


You're right.  Innocent would imply him being cleared of a crime.  Apparently there was no crime as his self-defense argument held up in court.  Justifiable homicide would be a more appropriate description of what happened.
 
2013-07-15 11:06:24 AM

Headso: A lot of the calls are pretty specious on the reasoning... reads like a call log from an elderly woman.


Well, it fits considering he apparently fights like one....
 
2013-07-15 11:06:26 AM
All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story
 
2013-07-15 11:06:37 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.


The state of FL tried to prove that isn't what happened and failed. In your defense they didn't try very hard so you might be able to.
 
2013-07-15 11:06:39 AM
all the half wits arguing about "innocent until proven guilty" probably think  "all men are created equal" and "tired huddled masses" is in the constitution.
 
2013-07-15 11:07:23 AM

Joe Blowme: If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story


Do you feel it wouldn't be a story because nothing would've happened or because Zimmerman would've been in jail/facing murder charges?
 
2013-07-15 11:07:51 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: The best course of action is to get away from the person following you, while calling 911 to report it.


I thought the pro-gun lobby would have us believe that the cops are only there to clean up the mess afterwards, and you must defend your person and your property if you wish to keep both intact.
 
2013-07-15 11:07:59 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.

Despite the media's best efforts.


Turn the fire hoses on 'em. Maybe that'll get them fired up enough to start breaking windows and looting local businesses. The media will surely get their money's worth then.
 
2013-07-15 11:08:00 AM

Carth: You mean the guy who did volunteer work in the community and spent his time tutoring low income children? That creep?
Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

You're right about one thing most people wouldn't bother calling 911 if they they saw someone suspicious. They'd rather not get involved.


Sure, it's almost like Zimmerman was a Catholic priest.

It is amusing that you are trying to spin it like the dispatcher wanted Zimmerman to stalk Martin. Funny stuff. Then, ho, ho, that you believe he stopped when she said they didn't need him to do that. Hardy, har, har.

And because he had to endure the indignity of being charged and tried, people won't want to call 911. Because doing that is exactly the same as shooting a "suspicious" teen in the heart.
 
2013-07-15 11:08:08 AM

99sportster: Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.

Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.

OK, so it's actually "Not guilty until proven guilty". I'm glad you cleared that up.  People have been getting it wrong for YEARS.

By the way, sport, there's no such thing as a verdict of "Innocent".  However, if you are "Innocent until proven guilty" and you are not proven guilty (ergo, you never GET TO the "until proven guilty" part), you're still at "innocent".


and that's where you fail.  You are not "innocent until proven guilty"  that's a sloppy misquotation.  You are entitled to the LEGAL presumption of innocence in a court of law until your guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  You are what you are and the verdict does not make an innocent man guilty or a guilty man innocent, it merely makes them treated that way by the COURT
 
2013-07-15 11:08:09 AM

Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.


Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.
 
2013-07-15 11:08:21 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?


Mr. Zimmerman's observations do not constitute proof of such behaviour. Even logically valid suspicions may prove inaccurate.
 
2013-07-15 11:08:23 AM

dittybopper: I'm very happy that my worst fears about the potential for violence have so far proven to be wrong.


I think everyone is relieved, but wait just a bit- we might not quite be out of the woods yet.  Sharpton and company are going into high gear to agitate people as much as they possibly can.
 
2013-07-15 11:08:34 AM
This just in: This case does not in any way effect you nor is it any statement at all on "society"
 
2013-07-15 11:08:39 AM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.
 
2013-07-15 11:09:26 AM
I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.
 
2013-07-15 11:09:30 AM

INeedAName: Millennium: INeedAName: And I'm sure Trayvon would prefer to be dead than convicted of what... maybe starting a fight? Or maybe defending himself?

Probably, but as things currently stand, he doesn't mind. That's an important thing to remember: we cannot help him, and he cannot hurt us. Sending someone we can't be sure is guilty to prison helps no one.

He doesn't? So you spoke to him? Do you have a Ouija board?


No, but show me any dead person who, after the fact, verifiably objected to any circumstance surrounding his or her death. If you can do this without violating the separation of Church and State, I'll concede your point. Otherwise, I'm going with the epitaph of Lucretius: "I was not. I have been. I am not. I do not mind."
 
2013-07-15 11:10:17 AM

Carth: HotWingConspiracy: Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.

The state of FL tried to prove that isn't what happened and failed. In your defense they didn't try very hard so you might be able to.


Somebody killed the only other witness, so Zimmerman's version wins! Yah justice.
 
2013-07-15 11:10:26 AM

dittybopper: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You are also delusional if you think Martin had zero responsibility for his own death.


I don't think Martin had zero responsibility for the situation he found himself in. He could have called the cops, he could have split, he could have taken any number of other actions. No argument.

I would not deny Zimmerman the right to defend himself if he's having the shiat beaten out of him, which it seems he was. But he behaved stupidly and irresponsibly, and provocatively, and his actions led directly to the aggression from which he needed to defend himself.

I don't think he should spend his life in jail but it's amazing to me that he can behave as he did and walk away.
 
2013-07-15 11:10:58 AM

Facetious_Speciest: DROxINxTHExWIND

Last week those tweets were being posted as evidence of the coming race war and the ignorance of black poeple. Today, they were all just ITGs, huh? Smh.

Please stop conflating everyone with a similar skin tone. I never did the things you accuse me of. Your racism is lazy.


You do agree that the twees were posted last week, correct? Did you post any of them? No? Then, I obviously was not referring to you specifically. I respondedto your comment because you commeted on the tweets.

/Get out of your feelings.
 
2013-07-15 11:11:05 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: Some Bass Playing Guy: 99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.

Come back when you understand the difference between a not guilty verdict and being innocent.

OK, so it's actually "Not guilty until proven guilty". I'm glad you cleared that up.  People have been getting it wrong for YEARS.

By the way, sport, there's no such thing as a verdict of "Innocent".  However, if you are "Innocent until proven guilty" and you are not proven guilty (ergo, you never GET TO the "until proven guilty" part), you're still at "innocent".s

Being found not guilty of a crime, is not the same as being innocent. Never has been, despite the innocent until proven guilty phrase. It's an immutable fact that Zimmerman killed Martin. The circumstances were judged to be not a criminal offense, but he's not innocent of killing Martin.

Lots of people who actually have committed crimes have been acquitted because the prosecution couldn't make it case. That doesn't mean they didn't do what they were accused of. All that means is that there wasn't enough to make a criminal charge stick. Likewise, people who are found guilty of crimes, may have not actually done the things they got charged for. That means they are innocent.

So like I said, get back to us when you actually understand that being found not guilty of a crime doesn't mean someone is innocent.



How can he be "innocent of killing Martin"?   That was never in dispute!  The original poster stated "you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin".  Guess what, HE IS INNOCENT of the MURDER of Martin.  I'm not talking innocent of having taken the life of Trayvon Martin. His own defense team admitted that.  However, he is, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, innocent in the "murder of Martin".  There is a difference between killing someone and murdering someone.
 
2013-07-15 11:11:12 AM

The Muthaship: urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?

All of it.

But, you aren't alone.


Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.
 
2013-07-15 11:11:18 AM
There were some guys marching on the freeways in LA. That crap would make me more frustrated than sympathetic.

Albert911emt: If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him. We all know that's what happened here, it just can't be proven. Zimmerman picked a fight, got punched, and he killed the kid.


I remember back when I was about, eh, 13 or 14. I was walking through my parents' neighborhood where the pool is, and that pool had been having uninvited guests at the time. A police cruiser was sitting by the pool, which I was using as my "halfway" point in my walk. The officer stopped me and asked me for some ID. Being of the age before I had a driver's license, I had none. He then asked me what I was doing, where I lived, and what my parents' phone number was. I gave him the information, and he more or less told me that they'd been keeping an eye on the pool since people had been visiting it without the privilege of doing so. He then let me go. I walked back home and saw him drive past me, talking to someone on the phone in his car. As it turned out, that person was my mother, who then scolded me for eliciting a phone call from the police.

Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what. Neither is running. People like that police officer or George Zimmerman can only go as far as you allow them to with your conduct. If I had taken a swing at that officer, I would have been OC'd as a best case scenario, or shot as the worst. Answer their questions, be respectful, do as they ask, and be on your way. It is up to you to keep the situation from escalating.

It also goes to show another thing: police and these neighborhood watch types only know what they have seen. They have seen reports of group x doing activity y in area z. They didn't know my father was a businessman in the city they are employed by who would go on to be an alderman, or that I had no record. They knew that adolescent males had been screwing around in a private pool. Was I profiled based on who I looked like instead of what I was doing? Absolutely. Did I resent the officer for doing that? Yes. Looking back on it, though, I don't resent the officer as much. I resent the guys who were screwing around in the pool, giving people like me a bad name. We are, for better or for worse, a species that associates behaviors with physical traits. As much of a pain in the ass as it is, we need to get on other people that are like us (whether they be young men, African-American, Hispanic, etc.) for dickish conduct.

Trayvon's death is insanely unfortunate, and very sad. Zimmerman should probably have been charged with something along the lines of stalking. But taking a swing at someone is never, ever a good idea, as it invites their wrath upon you.
 
2013-07-15 11:11:32 AM

Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.


When being followed in public, "confronting" the follower is not necessarily unjustified, regardless of race. Physically striking the follower is not justified, regardless of race.

Had Mr. Martin "confronted" Mr. Zimmerman only verbally, Mr. Zimmerman would not have been justified in the use of deadly force.
 
2013-07-15 11:12:08 AM
But I want my living room to be much more comfortable...

Haven't turned on CNN or Fox News ever. Those viewers are part of the problem imo
 
2013-07-15 11:12:10 AM

Cletus C.: Carth: HotWingConspiracy: Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.

The state of FL tried to prove that isn't what happened and failed. In your defense they didn't try very hard so you might be able to.

Somebody killed the only other witness, so Zimmerman's version wins! Yah justice.


You think it would be a better outcome if someone was put in jail for 30+ without solid evidence of wrong doing?

Ideally what do you think should happen in situations like this?
 
2013-07-15 11:12:11 AM

Cletus C.: Carth: HotWingConspiracy: Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.

The state of FL tried to prove that isn't what happened and failed. In your defense they didn't try very hard so you might be able to.

Somebody killed the only other witness, so Zimmerman's version wins! Yah justice.


Emotional appeal, yay!

/We see how well that worked out for the prosecutors.
 
2013-07-15 11:12:41 AM

urbangirl: The Muthaship: urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?

All of it.

But, you aren't alone.

Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.


1-3
 
2013-07-15 11:13:01 AM

Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story


So unless someone is outraged all the time, they can't be outraged any of the time?

By the way, I'm not sure where this "40-50 kids shot each day" is coming from... but the average I've seen is about 1 a day (32 a month). Yes, this greatly pisses me off too. If thugs are killing thugs, regardless of their ethnicity, I don't really give a flying fark. You choose the gang life, then you choose the consequences. If you're out shooting randomly and hitting kids, then yes, I'm pissed. I find it hard to believe a competent police force couldn't cut down on those shootings. If the current force isn't doing it, then fark them and start all over.
 
2013-07-15 11:13:24 AM

Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.


The investigation was so inadequate that the 2nd investigation including federal authorities and a new prosecutor found nothing new? Where they more or less lied in the affidavit of probable cause? Where the defense was denied information during the discovery phase by the state attorney's office?
 
2013-07-15 11:13:32 AM

I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


Based on the fact that the media has ignored the case in Brunswick, Georgia where last March two teens shot 13 month old baby, Antonio Santiago, in the face during a robbery, the case in New Jersey where two brothers murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale and stuffed her body in a trash receptacle just to steal her BMX bike, and the case in Indiana where three men murdered 24 year old Jacqueline Gardner last May just to steal her $85 in tip money, I'd have to say that the case of a white Trayvon Martin being murdered by a black George Zimmerman would have never been sensationalised by the national media and therefore the case would be widely unknown to the American public.
/Sorry if you're not making a serious statement, I see this argument a lot and it just irks me. //A victim is a victim regardless of their race and the race of their murderer. It's sad that only a few cases get such widespread attention.
 
2013-07-15 11:13:33 AM
I find it odd that pointing out something that Martin did completely absolves Zimmerman of any responsibility in the argument.

In these threads, one side is always pointing out that both sides acted stupidly, but Zimmerman ultimately took a life during a situation that began from his actions. The escalation of the situation is a combination of both at fault.

The other side constantly points out things in Martin's past or things that he SHOULD'VE done (which Zimmerman, for some reason, also could've done) as though it absolves Zimmerman of wrong doing.
 
2013-07-15 11:13:38 AM

RidersOfLohan: all the half wits arguing about "innocent until proven guilty" probably think  "all men are created equal" and "tired huddled masses" is in the constitution.


I'll split your supposition: they might think it of "all men are created equal," but I doubt most of them think it of "tired, huddled masses."
 
2013-07-15 11:14:04 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Even though GZ was acquitted of all criminal charges, he's hardly innocent. He pulled the trigger and he killed someone.


Are the members of a capital firing squad "innocent"?
 
2013-07-15 11:14:07 AM

urbangirl: The Muthaship: urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?

All of it.

But, you aren't alone.

Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.


You don't know any of the facts do you?  He was already out of the car by the time the dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that".  Immediately after the dispatcher said this, Zimmerman said "OK"

/Know how we know you don't know shiat about this case?
//I like using the word 'know'
 
2013-07-15 11:14:13 AM

urbangirl: The Muthaship: urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?

All of it.

But, you aren't alone.

Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.


#1: The dispatcher is on record saying they don't give orders on calls like the one with Zimmerman because of liability issues - they can make suggestions only.
 
2013-07-15 11:14:14 AM

urbangirl: omeganuepsilon: urbangirl: FTFY

Conveniently ignoring the truth of the situation is not fixing anything.

Violence perpetrated by a No Limit Youth is what led to his demise.  A violent path that he was on that even his friends warned him away from(the texts that were not admitted to the court talking about fighting).  Even Rachel told him to run, and she's barely self aware.

You're absolutely right.  I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist.  And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.


Have you evidence that Mr. Zimmerman "ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist"? I have read reports that Mr. Zimmerman continued to pursue Mr. Martin following a dispatcher's advice that doing so was not necessary, but I am unaware of evidence showing that such continued pursuit actually did occur and -- to my knowledge -- the prosecution even acknowledged an inability to show such behaviour by Mr. Zimmerman.

I readily acknowledge that I may lack confirming information of which you are aware.
 
2013-07-15 11:14:31 AM

Cletus C.: Carth: HotWingConspiracy: Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.

The state of FL tried to prove that isn't what happened and failed. In your defense they didn't try very hard so you might be able to.

Somebody killed the only other witness, so Zimmerman's version wins! Yah justice.


Yes. That's how criminal justice works.
 
2013-07-15 11:14:39 AM

cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.



"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?
 
2013-07-15 11:14:43 AM
Some law enforcement types were speculating on the absence of riots, and suggested that individuals and small groups would instead go on random assassination and "wildings" sprees.  In that most of the media refuses to mention even blatant racist hate crimes as such, only alternative media will publish such news.

Here are some sources if you track that sort of thing:

Thug Report

Tracking Homicides In Chicago
 
2013-07-15 11:14:49 AM

Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.


I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.
 
2013-07-15 11:15:16 AM

Albert911emt: If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him. We all know that's what happened here, it just can't be proven. Zimmerman picked a fight, got punched, and he killed the kid.


And it was entirely justified.

Don't commit assault on people and you won't end up killed with just cause. And even if you do, don't then continue the assault when you've gotten the better of them to teach them a lesson.

It astounds me that people, still now, with all of the facts and evidence in the case public knowledge, still remain entirely ignorant of objective reality and continue to substitute it with their own imagination.
 
2013-07-15 11:15:33 AM

Dimensio: Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.

When being followed in public, "confronting" the follower is not necessarily unjustified, regardless of race. Physically striking the follower is not justified, regardless of race.

Had Mr. Martin "confronted" Mr. Zimmerman only verbally, Mr. Zimmerman would not have been justified in the use of deadly force.


Maybe he did confront him only verbally. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun and said the punk wasn't going to get away with it again, whatever it was he was going to get away with. Maybe Martin thought he was about to die and tried to stop the crazy man. You don't know. I don't know, either. Just a dead unarmed teen and the guy who followed him in the dark and shot him.
 
2013-07-15 11:15:34 AM
DROxINxTHExWIND

You do agree that the twees were posted last week, correct? Did you post any of them? No? Then, I obviously was not referring to you specifically. I respondedto your comment because you commeted on the tweets.

What does my assessment of tweets have to do with other people posting them as some kind of sign of a non-existent race war? There's no dichotomous dynamic for you to be syh about.
 
2013-07-15 11:16:04 AM

The Muthaship: The jury found him not guilty because he acted in self defense


No, they found him not guilty because only because no one could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn't. there is a big difference.

So yes, 'not guilty' pretty much -EXACTLY- like OJ.
 
2013-07-15 11:16:37 AM

dittybopper: skozlaw: This is a simple case of a bunch of suburban Rambo wannabes throwing a brainless law on the books with no real regard for the potential consequences.

Actually, given the identical circumstances, Zimmerman would have likely been acquitted in nearly every other state.  Even in states where you have a duty to retreat, it's only required if you can do it in complete safety.  When George Zimmerman used deadly force (and it appears to be the *ONLY* time he used any significant force at all), he couldn't escape.  He was pinned to the ground by Trayvon Martin.


That's untrue. There are many forward thinking states that require affirmative defenses be proven by the Defense.
 
2013-07-15 11:17:26 AM

QueenMamaBee: If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.


Amusing, but not nearly as much as Nancy Grace mention that George never missed an opportunity to hit 'Taco Bell'.  But we know the racists are only on one side of this argument.
/snert
 
2013-07-15 11:17:32 AM
ginkor

Some law enforcement types were speculating on the absence of riots, and suggested that individuals and small groups would instead go on random assassination and "wildings" sprees.

How would you tell the difference between any other day, then?
 
2013-07-15 11:17:35 AM

CliChe Guevara: The Muthaship: The jury found him not guilty because he acted in self defense

No, they found him not guilty because only because no one could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn't. there is a big difference.

So yes, 'not guilty' pretty much -EXACTLY- like OJ.


I'm not surprised that you're wrong again.
 
2013-07-15 11:17:57 AM

Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story


Those are mostly gang related shootings and when gangbangers shoot each other, as long as civilians aren't hurt, no one gives a solitary fark. Not even the gangbangers.
 
2013-07-15 11:17:57 AM

This text is now purple: Some Bass Playing Guy: Even though GZ was acquitted of all criminal charges, he's hardly innocent. He pulled the trigger and he killed someone.

Are the members of a capital firing squad "innocent"?


Of murder?  Yes they are.  As is George Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-15 11:18:03 AM

Latinwolf: Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.


That's an interesting strawman, but most of the Zimmerman supporters here take the position that he was innocent of the charges, as opposed to merely acquitted (which is a factual, if not legal, distinction).

In the same trial, however, there was both forensic and eyewitness testimony that Martin did commit a crime.
 
2013-07-15 11:18:13 AM

This text is now purple: Some Bass Playing Guy: Even though GZ was acquitted of all criminal charges, he's hardly innocent. He pulled the trigger and he killed someone.

Are the members of a capital firing squad "innocent"?


To be perfectly fair, even if we are to assume that all killing is murder, then at least one of the members always is. That's a longstanding tradition among firing squads: one of the guns is loaded with blanks, and then they shuffle the guns around. One of the shooters most definitely did not fire a killing shot, and nobody knows which one.

That's done partly to soothe the consciences of the members, in the event that things later turn sour: you might have had the gun with blanks. But it also raises reasonable doubt if the event that a member of a firing squad is tried for that: again, they might have had the gun with blanks.
 
2013-07-15 11:18:14 AM

Phil McKraken: I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?

I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.


Please describe the specific actions undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman that constituted creation of a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily injury to Mr. Martin.
 
2013-07-15 11:18:41 AM

QueenMamaBee: Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story

So unless someone is outraged all the time, they can't be outraged any of the time?

By the way, I'm not sure where this "40-50 kids shot each day" is coming from... but the average I've seen is about 1 a day (32 a month). Yes, this greatly pisses me off too. If thugs are killing thugs, regardless of their ethnicity, I don't really give a flying fark. You choose the gang life, then you choose the consequences. If you're out shooting randomly and hitting kids, then yes, I'm pissed. I find it hard to believe a competent police force couldn't cut down on those shootings. If the current force isn't doing it, then fark them and start all over.


There were 70+ people shot in Chicago over the 4th of July weekend and 21 were shot this weekend in Chicago alone. Vast majority of those shootings involved a young black male shooting another young black male, but some of those involve a small child getting shot. A 5 year old was shot on July 4th in an attempted gang shooting. 40-50 is far too many AFAIK but one a day is not even close for Chicago.

*young being 25 and under
 
2013-07-15 11:18:55 AM

lizannefel: Based on the fact that the media has ignored the case in Brunswick, Georgia where last March two teens shot 13 month old baby, Antonio Santiago, in the face during a robbery, the case in New Jersey where two brothers murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale and stuffed her body in a trash receptacle just to steal her BMX bike, and the case in Indiana where three men murdered 24 year old Jacqueline Gardner last May just to steal her $85 in tip money, I'd have to say that the case of a white Trayvon Martin being murdered by a black George Zimmerman would have never been sensationalised by the national media and therefore the case would be widely unknown to the American public.


In all three of your situations, the suspects were arrested and charged with murder within a week or two of the incident, if I'm correct. All three cases are progressing towards capital murder charges (in the first two cases, teens are being charged as adults).

Surely you see the difference and the cause of the initial outrage.
 
2013-07-15 11:19:04 AM

urbangirl: You're absolutely right. I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist. And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.


The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that ignorance can be cured.
 
2013-07-15 11:19:20 AM
Does anyone else think the internet has killed our ability to riot?

It's made us very self-aware of our public actions that it's nearly impossible to imagine a riot without a dozen people uploading photos to instagram or videos to youtube. Then we could instantly relive and criticize those rioting moments. The strong emotions that lead to someone rioting would be kept in check by the knowledge that people would record and judge their actions.

We also have a soap box online. It may not be a very big one, but posting your views on Facebook (or Fark as so many of you already did in this thread) is as much an emotional release and cry to be heard as shouting in the street. People at least feel like they're getting they're message out there.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it would explain why rioting occurs in places where people don't have as much internet access, or don't have a good internet infrastructure.

/or maybe Americans are just too complacent for real action to back up their words
 
2013-07-15 11:20:00 AM

lizannefel: Based on the fact that the media has ignored the case in Brunswick, Georgia where last March two teens shot 13 month old baby, Antonio Santiago, in the face during a robbery, the case in New Jersey where two brothers murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale and stuffed her body in a trash receptacle just to steal her BMX bike, and the case in Indiana where three men murdered 24 year old Jacqueline Gardner last May just to steal her $85 in tip money, I'd have to say that the case of a white Trayvon Martin being murdered by a black George Zimmerman would have never been sensationalised by the national media and therefore the case would be widely unknown to the American public.


In these cases are any of these people at risk not to be charged at the fullest extent of the law? That's what started the whole thing from the beginning in the Zimmerman case...
 
2013-07-15 11:20:23 AM

Azlefty: Face it Trayvon was shot and killed because Zimmerman was a puss and could not fight


The lesson should be learned is that jumping a guy you think you can take might unexpectedly go poorly should he be in possession of a hand-cannon.

Even Bruce Lee said he would run from a gun.
 
2013-07-15 11:20:50 AM

Albert911emt: If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him. We all know that's what happened here, it just can't be proven. Zimmerman picked a fight, got punched, and he killed the kid.


Your hypothetical act of "punching" an individual who neither physically attacked you nor threatened to do so would constitute a crime, and would legally justify the use of force by that individual against you.
 
2013-07-15 11:21:27 AM

Abuse Liability: QueenMamaBee: If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Amusing, but not nearly as much as Nancy Grace mention that George never missed an opportunity to hit 'Taco Bell'.  But we know the racists are only on one side of this argument.
/snert


Nancy Grace is an idiot and that's a stupid joke. Have you EVER seen a Mexican at Taco Bell? That's about as much "real" Mexican food as McDonald's has "real" beef.

She used to be semi-decent years ago.... has she gone off of her crazy pills? She's just.... evil.
 
2013-07-15 11:21:35 AM

99sportster: This text is now purple: Some Bass Playing Guy: Even though GZ was acquitted of all criminal charges, he's hardly innocent. He pulled the trigger and he killed someone.

Are the members of a capital firing squad "innocent"?

Of murder?  Yes they are.  As is George Zimmerman.


Just curious, but are you also of the opinion that abortion is murder?  I was just curious as you seem to have everything worked out, and apparently the world is incredibly black and white.
 
2013-07-15 11:22:03 AM

QueenMamaBee: Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story

So unless someone is outraged all the time, they can't be outraged any of the time?

By the way, I'm not sure where this "40-50 kids shot each day" is coming from... but the average I've seen is about 1 a day (32 a month). Yes, this greatly pisses me off too. If thugs are killing thugs, regardless of their ethnicity, I don't really give a flying fark. You choose the gang life, then you choose the consequences. If you're out shooting randomly and hitting kids, then yes, I'm pissed. I find it hard to believe a competent police force couldn't cut down on those shootings. If the current force isn't doing it, then fark them and start all over.


Tbh, I'm pissed either way. The 18th and Vine District in KCMO is a perfect example. Millions of dollars in taxpayer money have gone into that area to get it back on its feet. It is a historic area where KC's jazz legends played back during Kansas City's "Prohibition" era (that term is in quotes for a reason... not one arrest for an alcohol-related offense was made in KC in the entirety of Prohibition). Unfortunately, a few thugs have shot other thugs in the area, and now, no one wants to go. The end result is some very nice taxpayer-funded offices (mainly aimed at offering African-Americans opportunities and assistance in business deals) surrounded by graffiti-covered blighted buildings. No real progress has been made after tons of money has been spent.

This violence impacts us all in one way or another.
 
2013-07-15 11:22:41 AM

Carth: I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

If Martin were Hispanic and Zimmerman black the case would never have gone to trial because there wouldn't have been mass protests and the President would talk about how the victim would look like his son if he had one.


Oh snap! Real talk.
 
2013-07-15 11:22:49 AM
Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?
 
2013-07-15 11:22:55 AM

Cletus C.: Dimensio: Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.

When being followed in public, "confronting" the follower is not necessarily unjustified, regardless of race. Physically striking the follower is not justified, regardless of race.

Had Mr. Martin "confronted" Mr. Zimmerman only verbally, Mr. Zimmerman would not have been justified in the use of deadly force.

Maybe he did confront him only verbally. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun and said the punk wasn't going to get away with it again, whatever it was he was going to get away with. Maybe Martin thought he was about to die and tried to stop the crazy man. You don't know. I don't know, either. Just a dead unarmed teen and the guy who followed him in the dark and shot him.


You're welcome to think that, but it's not based in observable reality. Jeantel was a witness on the phone that heard the beginning of the confrontation. Having pulled the gun at that point makes little to no sense based on the verbal responses she testified to hearing. Good's testimony also makes it incredibly unlikely that a gun was pulled prior to the shooting.
 
2013-07-15 11:23:10 AM

redmid17: QueenMamaBee: Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story

So unless someone is outraged all the time, they can't be outraged any of the time?

By the way, I'm not sure where this "40-50 kids shot each day" is coming from... but the average I've seen is about 1 a day (32 a month). Yes, this greatly pisses me off too. If thugs are killing thugs, regardless of their ethnicity, I don't really give a flying fark. You choose the gang life, then you choose the consequences. If you're out shooting randomly and hitting kids, then yes, I'm pissed. I find it hard to believe a competent police force couldn't cut down on those shootings. If the current force isn't doing it, then fark them and start all over.

There were 70+ people shot in Chicago over the 4th of July weekend and 21 were shot this weekend in Chicago alone. Vast majority of those shootings involved a young black male shooting another young black male, but some of those involve a small child getting shot. A 5 year old was shot on July 4th in an attempted gang shooting. 40-50 is far too many AFAIK but one a day is not even close for Chicago.

*young being 25 and under



So are all of th murderers being set free because thewy claimed self defense? I'm trying to see your logic here.
 
2013-07-15 11:23:33 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin


i5.photobucket.com

How about TM not punch him and start assaulting him...you know... STOP BREAKING THE LAW!
 
2013-07-15 11:23:45 AM

omeganuepsilon: Treyvon was committing assault and battery.


What is it with Zimmerman fanboys who've clearly followed every millisecond of this trial from start to finish with breathless excitement and still cannot spell "Trayvon"? Why is this a thing?
 
2013-07-15 11:23:49 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

oh good, another person who doesn't understand that case.


Then why don't you enlighten us?
 
2013-07-15 11:23:50 AM
Underwater Bystander

Does anyone else think the internet has killed our ability to riot?

Not at all. All it's done is give a visible outlet for people to talk shiat about rioting. That the people who talk the loudest don't do it isn't really surprising; it's the modern equivalent of that guy from thirty years ago who would talk the loudest shiat with his buddies and never do a thing, only now "his buddies" have morphed into "anyone with the unlucky fortune to stumble across their electron spew."

People who are serious about violence or mayhem generally just end up doing it, rather than talking about how they'd like to do it. The whole "lone wolf" thing that has certain government agencies shiatting bricks.

But overall, we have the same ability and motivation to riot as we always have. This just wasn't a very good spark.
 
2013-07-15 11:23:50 AM

QueenMamaBee: Abuse Liability: QueenMamaBee: If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Amusing, but not nearly as much as Nancy Grace mention that George never missed an opportunity to hit 'Taco Bell'.  But we know the racists are only on one side of this argument.
/snert

Nancy Grace is an idiot and that's a stupid joke. Have you EVER seen a Mexican at Taco Bell? That's about as much "real" Mexican food as McDonald's has "real" beef.

She used to be semi-decent years ago.... has she gone off of her crazy pills? She's just.... evil.


I have see Hispanics at Taco Bell but that is really neither here nor there.
 
2013-07-15 11:24:07 AM

Magorn: There sre two ways of Charging a subject in most jurisdictions: 1) by indictment form a Grand Jury 2) by the Filing of a "criminal information" by the prosecutor.

The reason you use a Grand Jury in such jurisdictions is 1) to test out questionable fact patterns/ give prosecutors politcal cover 2) to avoid a "preliminary hearing" that the defendant is entitled to if you file by criminal information.

a Preliminary hearing is essenitally a mini-trial in which the prosecution has to give a preview of all their evidence ti the judge to convince them there is probable cause to charge. The defense is entitled to be present at this hearing and cross-examine witnesses-somethng they don;t get to do with a grand Jury


Unless that stupid judge sandbags McCoy because he's trying to make a name for himself and unseat Adam Schiff!

/But, seriously, thanks for the informative reply.
 
2013-07-15 11:24:13 AM

Magorn: The Muthaship: Diogenes: Was OJ "innocent" too?  You know the difference.

I think you can say he was legally innocent in this case.  I know the finding is not guilty.  But, this is a self defense case.  There's no doubt he killed Martin.  That was undisputed.  The jury found him not guilty because he acted in self defense.The prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self defense   Essentially, they said he is innocent  Not Guilty  of any crime because The prosecution could not prove  what he did was Not justified.  Said another way, no crime was proven to have been committed.


FTFY.  That is all that happened in that courtroom, and As I said I think the Jury was 100% correct in their conclusions based solely on the case presented.   I don;t for one second believe Zimmerman's account of what happened that night, but as the only other direct witness to the whole thing is dead, we're left with a lack of evidence.   What we do know is tht at best Zimmerman was obscenely reckless on that night.  Here was a man who in the words of his own defense was an incompetent wimp when it came to fighting or self defense, who nonetheless went out of his way to initate a sequence of events that lead to a physical confrontation.   He also happened to be carrying a gun.  Given his inabilityto physically defend himself, that course of action made it nearly inevitable the he'd have to use that gun based on those actions.


So basically you have no evidence, but you just "know" that Zimmerman murdered Martin.

Wow. The cognitive dissonance is strong with you.
 
2013-07-15 11:24:21 AM

lifeboat: [oi41.tinypic.com image 850x638]


You realize your photo is of a European city, right? You can tell from the odd road split and the European road signs.
http://www.europcar.com/EBE/module/render/european-road-signs
 
2013-07-15 11:24:47 AM

Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?


I was referring more to the post suggesting that a punch would be a good idea than Martin's conduct. I've yet to find any good timeline of what happened that night. Honestly, I couldn't have voted guilty on that jury even if I had wanted to.
 
2013-07-15 11:24:52 AM

QueenMamaBee: Abuse Liability: QueenMamaBee: If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Amusing, but not nearly as much as Nancy Grace mention that George never missed an opportunity to hit 'Taco Bell'.  But we know the racists are only on one side of this argument.
/snert

Nancy Grace is an idiot and that's a stupid joke. Have you EVER seen a Mexican at Taco Bell? That's about as much "real" Mexican food as McDonald's has "real" beef.

She used to be semi-decent years ago.... has she gone off of her crazy pills? She's just.... evil.


Agreed on all counts there.  She probably wasn't even really being racist (though I bet to her, taco bell is pretty much as mexican as she ever sees), though I don't know why she didn't just go to the default McDonalds.  Honestly though, I think taco bell is more a young person's game, regardless of race.  I bet there are a bunch of black, white, latino, etc... 20 somethings all hitting late night taco bells.
 
2013-07-15 11:24:53 AM

99sportster: ikanreed: The Muthaship: Magorn: But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

Well, one of us is delusional....

There's a difference between not-guilty and innocent.

Really?  "Innocent until proven guilty".  He was not proven guilty, therefore, he IS innocent.


The jury never gives a verdict of innocent, they give a verdict of "not guilty".
 
2013-07-15 11:24:54 AM
vernonFL:: I would still like to know how and why Florida has juries of only 6 people.

Dammit, do you know how hard it is to find SIX normal people in Florida without one of them turning out to be a complete whack job? Now you want to up it to TWELVE?

No, really this came about because a lot of Florida became polarized in the sixties due to it's fast growth. You would have several completely different groups going in for jury duty who had agendas that were leading to a lot of hung juries. The civil rights blacks or their liberal friends from the north would let all the blacks go. The hippies would let all the drug guys go. The Cubans would let all the Cubans go. The rural population would let the country folks go in crimes against developers. And all it took was one on a jury of twelve to void out the entire trial. So they cut it to six except for capital cases and pushed it through the legislature by claiming it would save the government money.
 
2013-07-15 11:24:59 AM

Dimensio: Phil McKraken: I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?

I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Please describe the specific actions undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman that constituted creation of a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily injury to Mr. Martin.


The stalking?

Am I supposed to believe that Trayvon Martin spontaneously decided to attack Zimmerman without some reason? If Martin did initiate the aggression (and we only have the killer's word for this) it is likely he felt as though he were threatened. He should have had a gun, killed Zimmerman and live to tell his side of the "Stand Your Ground" story.
 
2013-07-15 11:25:42 AM

ginkor: Some law enforcement types shamefully sucky bloggers were speculating on the absence of riots, and suggested that individuals and small groups would instead go on random assassination and "wildings" sprees.  In that most of the media refuses to mention even blatant racist hate crimes as such, only alternative media will publish such news.

Here are some sources if you track that sort of thing:

Thug Report

Tracking Homicides In Chicago

 
2013-07-15 11:25:48 AM
People admonishing others for implying that Zimmerman started the altercation because the evidence doesn't indicate that probably shouldn't definitively state that Martin started the altercation.
 
2013-07-15 11:26:28 AM

Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?


There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.
 
2013-07-15 11:26:40 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: redmid17: QueenMamaBee: Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story

So unless someone is outraged all the time, they can't be outraged any of the time?

By the way, I'm not sure where this "40-50 kids shot each day" is coming from... but the average I've seen is about 1 a day (32 a month). Yes, this greatly pisses me off too. If thugs are killing thugs, regardless of their ethnicity, I don't really give a flying fark. You choose the gang life, then you choose the consequences. If you're out shooting randomly and hitting kids, then yes, I'm pissed. I find it hard to believe a competent police force couldn't cut down on those shootings. If the current force isn't doing it, then fark them and start all over.

There were 70+ people shot in Chicago over the 4th of July weekend and 21 were shot this weekend in Chicago alone. Vast majority of those shootings involved a young black male shooting another young black male, but some of those involve a small child getting shot. A 5 year old was shot on July 4th in an attempted gang shooting. 40-50 is far too many AFAIK but one a day is not even close for Chicago.

*young being 25 and under


So are all of th murderers being set free because thewy claimed self defense? I'm trying to see your logic here.


Willfully obtuse, thats your new fark handle in my favorites
 
2013-07-15 11:26:46 AM

ph0rk: Some Bass Playing Guy: So like I said, get back to us when you actually understand that being found not guilty of a crime doesn't mean someone is innocent.

Is jeopardy attached? Isn't Zimmerman innocent in the eyes of the law?

That Zimmerman is innocent of premeditated murder seems rather plausible - However a killing obviously took place, and his finger pulled the trigger.


He was judged innocent of manslaughter as well.
 
2013-07-15 11:26:50 AM

someonelse: omeganuepsilon: Treyvon was committing assault and battery.

What is it with Zimmerman fanboys who've clearly followed every millisecond of this trial from start to finish with breathless excitement and still cannot spell "Trayvon"? Why is this a thing?


Jeantel couldn't spell his name either. Maybe people just suck at spelling? I get emails from clients and coworkers who misspell my name in almost every email despite having it directly spelled out a mere three lines above where they start typing.
 
2013-07-15 11:27:52 AM

Marine1: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

I was referring more to the post suggesting that a punch would be a good idea than Martin's conduct. I've yet to find any good timeline of what happened that night. Honestly, I couldn't have voted guilty on that jury even if I had wanted to.


Uh...two people go into a room; the one with a gun following the first. The unarmed person is dead and the armed person claims self defense.

It makes no sense to me. What's the gun for if you don't intend trouble?
 
2013-07-15 11:27:53 AM

Abuse Liability: 99sportster: This text is now purple: Some Bass Playing Guy: Even though GZ was acquitted of all criminal charges, he's hardly innocent. He pulled the trigger and he killed someone.

Are the members of a capital firing squad "innocent"?

Of murder?  Yes they are.  As is George Zimmerman.

Just curious, but are you also of the opinion that abortion is murder?  I was just curious as you seem to have everything worked out, and apparently the world is incredibly black and white.


Me personally?  No, I don't believe abortion is murder.  But then, I've never fallen on the "right to life" side of that argument.  That could be due to the fact that I am not an overly religious individual.  Who knows?  But I do know the legal definition of "murder", and a capital firing squad doesn't fit that definition.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:10 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Carth: Following a teen after being asked by the 911 dispatcher "which way is he running" then stopping when they told him they didn't need him to actually follow him?

The revisionism has begun in earnest. Hats off to you.


What evidence shows that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow Mr. Martin after the police dispatcher informed him that doing so was unnecessary? I am aware of the claim, but I have evidently overlooked the testimony or evidence that supports the claim.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:11 AM

Marine1: I've yet to find any good timeline of what happened that night.


There isn't one. And, that is why Zimmerman is free. People who definitively state one way or the other are lying.

And, there are many in this thread that are admonishing one side of the story while also acknowledging that fact.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:26 AM

Phil McKraken: Dimensio: Phil McKraken: I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?

I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Please describe the specific actions undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman that constituted creation of a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily injury to Mr. Martin.

The stalking?

Am I supposed to believe that Trayvon Martin spontaneously decided to attack Zimmerman without some reason? If Martin did initiate the aggression (and we only have the killer's word for this) it is likely he felt as though he were threatened. He should have had a gun, killed Zimmerman and live to tell his side of the "Stand Your Ground" story.


If Zimmerman had stalked Martin, Florida would have filed those charges. Stalking was mentioned at no point by the prosecution nor in any of the case paperwork. The investigators even said Zimmerman wasn't doing anything illegal by following Martin.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:30 AM

Popcorn Johnny: God Is My Co-Pirate: And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

If Trayvon hadn't been casing houses while high on weed, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't made it safely to his home and then doubled back to confront Zim, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon hadn't launched a violent assault, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon had stopped his violent assault when told to by John Goode, nothing would have happened.
If Trayvon was subject to a little discipline in his life and had been grounded, nothing would have happened.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this is fun!!!


The trial's over, GZ's defence team have stopped paying you now.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:51 AM

redmid17: QueenMamaBee: Joe Blowme: All bluster... when was last time Beyonce or any of the J4T tards came out like this for the 40 -50 kids shot every week in Chicago? AW-ing at its finest. If Zimmerman was black, this would not have been a story

So unless someone is outraged all the time, they can't be outraged any of the time?

By the way, I'm not sure where this "40-50 kids shot each day" is coming from... but the average I've seen is about 1 a day (32 a month). Yes, this greatly pisses me off too. If thugs are killing thugs, regardless of their ethnicity, I don't really give a flying fark. You choose the gang life, then you choose the consequences. If you're out shooting randomly and hitting kids, then yes, I'm pissed. I find it hard to believe a competent police force couldn't cut down on those shootings. If the current force isn't doing it, then fark them and start all over.

There were 70+ people shot in Chicago over the 4th of July weekend and 21 were shot this weekend in Chicago alone. Vast majority of those shootings involved a young black male shooting another young black male, but some of those involve a small child getting shot. A 5 year old was shot on July 4th in an attempted gang shooting. 40-50 is far too many AFAIK but one a day is not even close for Chicago.

*young being 25 and under


I just googled "teens" and several blogs and stories I read (including an educational-based site), said 508 were shot in 16 months, which came down to 32 a month, slightly more than one a day. One innocent child is far too many. One innocent adult is too many. I've found several mentioning how many homicides in Chicago each year, but not how many get shot and survive.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:51 AM

Latinwolf: tenpoundsofcheese: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

oh good, another person who doesn't understand that case.

Then why don't you enlighten us?


She was in his house, she went back out to get a gun, came back into the house, and discharged it. There was no self defense and I think she had a restraining order or other restriction at the time, don't remember exactly.

When people trout out that old news report, it's clear they're totally ignorant as there was a fark thread on it, explaining it weeks ago.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:55 AM

justtray: Cletus C.: Dimensio: Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.

When being followed in public, "confronting" the follower is not necessarily unjustified, regardless of race. Physically striking the follower is not justified, regardless of race.

Had Mr. Martin "confronted" Mr. Zimmerman only verbally, Mr. Zimmerman would not have been justified in the use of deadly force.

Maybe he did confront him only verbally. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun and said the punk wasn't going to get away with it again, whatever it was he was going to get away with. Maybe Martin thought he was about to die and tried to stop the crazy man. You don't know. I don't know, either. Just a dead unarmed teen and the guy who followed him in the dark and shot him.

You're welcome to think that, but it's not based in observable reality. Jeantel was a

witness on the phone that heard the beginning of the confrontation. Having pulled the gun at that point makes little to no sense based on the verbal responses she testified to hearing. Good's testimony also makes it incredibly unlikely that a gun was pulled prior to the shooting.

Evidence is pretty scant. Which is why a jury would have had to go on gut instinct and emotion, rather than fact, to convict. They didn't and shouldn't have. Jeantel's version stops short of the actual confrontation, so we know nothing of what happened, other than what Zimmerman has said. And that's the pity. The creep got to write his own get-out-of-jail card.
 
2013-07-15 11:29:48 AM

Dimensio: What evidence shows that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow Mr. Martin after the police dispatcher informed him that doing so was unnecessary? I am aware of the claim, but I have evidently overlooked the testimony or evidence that supports the claim.


I'm sure a review of the location of the incident in regards to where Zimmerman was and where his car is would show that he continued to proceed.

I mean, he got out of his car and followed...then stopped.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't anywhere close to his truck 5 minutes later.
 
2013-07-15 11:29:59 AM

skozlaw: Magorn: The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.

How would they have prosecuted successfully when Zimmerman was hiding behind one of the stupidest "right to kill" laws in the nation? The law is what it is:

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

In Florida, it doesn't matter if your actions are what instigated a fight as long as they weren't violent. All that matters is that Martin was attacking Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him. The stalking and harassment are immaterial and it's not illegal to be a racist prick. And since Zimmerman killed the only other eyewitness to the start of the fight, it was his word against nobody's as to how the physical altercation actually started.

This is a simple case of a bunch of suburban Rambo wannabes throwing a brainless law on the books with no real regard for the potential consequences. Without any other eyewitness to the actual start of the physical fight I fail to see how the prosecution was going to do win this when they're fighting against such a broad law.


It's pretty hard to run from a fight when your assailant is astride you issuing a beatdown.

You have an impressive immunity to facts, I'll give you that, but you're no Magorn.
 
2013-07-15 11:29:59 AM

justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.


Oh really? Didn't a witness claim Zimmerman was on top? What happened before that? No one knows except the guy who took a gun, followed Trayvon and shot him. Zimmerman's actions BEFORE the altercation indicate to me that he took the gun because why? He was expecting trouble? Didn't Zimmerman have some martial arts training?

He's just playing Hollywood tough guy.
 
2013-07-15 11:30:06 AM
I'm sure this won't set a terrible precedent or anything...

http://www.nydailynews.com/man-shoots-teen-loud-music-article-1.1209 34 5

Oopsie ... Way to go, Floriduh.   You've earned it. The ridicule, I mean.

In a way, this is useful. It's a nice test case of what America would be if Republicans had their way everywhere. I won't even hazard a guess as to what Floriduh's next move is. Probably something about abortion. Because they value LIFE.
 
2013-07-15 11:30:06 AM

Phil McKraken: Dimensio: Phil McKraken: I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?

I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Please describe the specific actions undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman that constituted creation of a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily injury to Mr. Martin.

The stalking?

Am I supposed to believe that Trayvon Martin spontaneously decided to attack Zimmerman without some reason? If Martin did initiate the aggression (and we only have the killer's word for this) it is likely he felt as though he were threatened. He should have had a gun, killed Zimmerman and live to tell his side of the "Stand Your Ground" story.


Stalking in FL is defined as: A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking,  So it doesn't exactly apply here.

Also if you put any faith in the testimony of Rachel Jeantel we know he wasn't scared of Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-15 11:30:10 AM

varmitydog: vernonFL:: I would still like to know how and why Florida has juries of only 6 people.

Dammit, do you know how hard it is to find SIX normal people in Florida without one of them turning out to be a complete whack job? Now you want to up it to TWELVE?

No, really this came about because a lot of Florida became polarized in the sixties due to it's fast growth. You would have several completely different groups going in for jury duty who had agendas that were leading to a lot of hung juries. The civil rights blacks or their liberal friends from the north would let all the blacks go. The hippies would let all the drug guys go. The Cubans would let all the Cubans go. The rural population would let the country folks go in crimes against developers. And all it took was one on a jury of twelve to void out the entire trial. So they cut it to six except for capital cases and pushed it through the legislature by claiming it would save the government money.



This shiat is totally untrue and irresponsible.
 
2013-07-15 11:30:11 AM

Albert911emt: If some idiot were following me through my neighborhood and started harassing me, I would have punched him.


And you'd be guilty of assault for doing that.

We all know that's what happened here...

No, actually, we don't. It's one possibility among many.

it just can't be proven. Zimmerman picked a fight, got punched, and he killed the kid.

Nobody is advancing any theory like that. Nor could they: facts in this case are scant, but there are enough rule out something that simplistic.

One of the cardinal rules of self-defense is that when the threat is neutralized, you stop. Early in this case, when it was commonly believed that Martin was running away when he was shot, I was solidly pro-conviction for this reason: the threat was gone, but Zimmerman pressed. As the facts have come out, I have been forced to rethink my perception of the case (for example, one of the few things we know for sure is that Martin was shot from the front: he was definitely not running away).

In fact, the facts we know point to the opposite being more likely. We do not know if Zimmerman posed a legitimate threat, but if he did, then it was actually Martin who neutralized and then pressed. In doing so, he invalidated any claim he'd have had to self-defense, just as Zimmerman did in the earlier version of the story.
 
2013-07-15 11:30:15 AM
Phil McKraken

It makes no sense to me. What's the gun for if you don't intend trouble?

In most states, it's legal to be armed, and suggests no ill-will.
 
2013-07-15 11:30:51 AM

markfara: Is this like when we were in Iraq and there were huge anti-war marches/rallies taking place that the media simply didn't cover? Just wondering. . . .


No, it isn't.

//Actually I was in London when the so-called 'anti-war' protests were happening. The left greatly exaggerated the size and importance of the protests. It was more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming.
 
2013-07-15 11:31:14 AM

redmid17: QueenMamaBee: Abuse Liability: QueenMamaBee: If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Amusing, but not nearly as much as Nancy Grace mention that George never missed an opportunity to hit 'Taco Bell'.  But we know the racists are only on one side of this argument.
/snert

Nancy Grace is an idiot and that's a stupid joke. Have you EVER seen a Mexican at Taco Bell? That's about as much "real" Mexican food as McDonald's has "real" beef.

She used to be semi-decent years ago.... has she gone off of her crazy pills? She's just.... evil.

I have see Hispanics at Taco Bell but that is really neither here nor there.


Really? I haven't been there in ages but I've never seen a Hispanic there. They're almost always at one of the local Mexican restaurants though. My Mexican cousins refuse to eat at Taco Bell. I do too, after a bout of food poisoning. Bleah.
 
2013-07-15 11:31:28 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Dimensio: HotWingConspiracy: Millennium: Too many levels of indirection. Who chose to fight? That's the key question -the only thing that truly matters- and we have no way to answer it.

That's not even the question. You can start a fight, then simply murder the other person if you're "afraid".

Basically if you get in to a fight in Florida, shoot first.

Instigating a physical altercation eliminates justification for use of deadly force during the altercation.

Not in Florida.


According to Florida statutes regarding the justified use of force:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.-s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

An instigator of a physical confrontation cannot claim justification for use of deadly force unless the instigator attempts but is unable to disengage from the confrontation and is also unable to end the confrontation with lesser force or the instigator has withdrawn from the confrontation but is pursued by the assailant.
 
2013-07-15 11:31:45 AM
According to this 'http://main.aol.com/2013/07/14/_n_3562115.html?1373890181&icid=maing- grid7%7Cmaing10%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D343946 ', people are protesting all over the nation, so much that the DOJ is going to get involved and consider charging him with Federal charges.

Yet, on the news last night, I don't recall any mention of mass riots, blocks burning down, the national guard being called out and assorted predominate black leaders screaming racism.

Apparently, the 'massive protest' was in the form of e-mails, tweets and phone calls. Strongly worded letters will arrive three days from now.

It's not like LA is burning down -- again.
 
2013-07-15 11:31:47 AM

urbangirl: Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.


#1, which makes #2 invalid. You even misunderstand the misunderstanding of #1 -- the alleged command to stop was after Zimmerman had already left his vehicle. Your version isn't even an allegation.

#3 is false, unless you subscribe to a theory in which martin was a subhuman mental incompetent incapable of controlling his every emotional whim. It's possible you actually believe this.

#4 is trivially true, but is a strawman. No one has ever alleged otherwise, and this point has never been at issue. It also derives from your misunderstanding of #1, which was false.
 
2013-07-15 11:32:08 AM

skozlaw: Zimmerman is clearly a complete and racist prick


OK, this says *VOLUMES* about how you feel.  It's not about the law, or about the actual circumstances.

To you, the narrative set forth that Zimmerman was a, to use your own words, a "complete and racist prick", despite a complete lack of evidence that he's a racist, and despite evidence to the contrary, shows that you are more concerned with "social justice" than actual justice.

And that's just sad, because we can't have a rational discussion.  You've made up your mind, and no amount of evidence can sway you.

At the very, very beginning of this in the "farkin' coons" thread,  I was skeptical of either side:

Sounds to me like he says "f*cking punks".

/Haven't formed an opinion yet
//The "facts" being presented are still to variable, this thread being a perfect example.
///Guy does seem like a major Mall Ninja though.


In fact, I was inclined to believe, based upon my last slashy, that Zimmerman was in the wrong, but I maintained skepticism.

After time and time again being told one thing by the Martin supporters, only to have it shown to be false (that "farkin' coons" thing being probably the first one that made me suspicious) or at best *SERIOUSLY* distorted, and after there were no serious inconsistencies from the Zimmerman side, it was pretty farkin' obvious that it was a case of self-defense, and that Martin was probably the aggressor, as Zimmerman said.

There is no "greater truth" here, just the objective truth, and the narrative constructed that Trayvon Martin was perfectly innocent and had zero culpability in his own death was destroyed utterly by the facts.

That you don't recognize that says that your opinion was molded early, perhaps even before the incident every happened, based upon your biases and political leanings.  But while we all have those, we *MUST* be honest enough to admit when they interfere with the rational weighing of evidence.

BTW, the closing arguments in this trial were a microcosm of that:  The defense laid out a heavily evidence based closing argument, and the prosecution's rebuttal was all emotion and zero evidence.

Anyway, this of course doesn't mean that we can't be friends.
 
2013-07-15 11:32:30 AM

urbangirl: The Muthaship: urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?

All of it.

But, you aren't alone.

Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.


1) is wrong.  They never told him to stay in his car.
2) is wrong.  see #1
3) is an opinion, but there is no basis in fact to back up your opinion.
4) ok.  so you are right here.  But, I'm not sure what your point is except that you possibly believe that Zimmerman getting out of his vehicle is justification for Martin to attack Zimmerman.

You obviously didn't watch the trial or read the transcript because even the State of Florida would tell you that 1-3 is totally incorrect.
 
2013-07-15 11:32:43 AM

justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.


No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.
 
2013-07-15 11:32:46 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: r1niceboy: It all boiled down to intent, and whether Zimmerman acted appropriately before the confrontation. He didn't,

How did he not act appropriately before the confrontation?
He did the same thing he did all the other times he called 911.  He observed, reported and kept track of where the person was so when the police showed up he could tell them where the person was.


He was told not to follow them. He followed them.
 
2013-07-15 11:32:59 AM
Cletus C.

Jeantel's version stops short of the actual confrontation...

Jeantel's version is that Martin confronted Zimmerman, actually. This corroborated Zimmerman's account, and no one has suggested otherwise.

At least not in court or to the police. A lot of Farkers have their own theories without support.
 
2013-07-15 11:34:12 AM

Phil McKraken: The stalking?

Am I supposed to believe that Trayvon Martin spontaneously decided to attack Zimmerman without some reason? If Martin did initiate the aggression (and we only have the killer's word for this) it is likely he felt as though he were threatened. He should have had a gun, killed Zimmerman and live to tell his side of the "Stand Your Ground" story.


stalking is a legal term, and did not occur here. He 'followed,' at best, and barely that given the context of the non emergency call Zimmerman placed.

Are you supposed to believe Martin decided to attack Zimmerman? Yes, you are, because that is almost certainly what occurred. You should have large doubts about the testimony of Jeantel, and whether or not she omitted key parts of her constant communication with Trayvon right up until the start of the incident.

If Trayvon felt threatened, why did he, by all accounts, confront Zimmerman? Why didn't he get off the phone with Jeantel and call the police? Why didn't he just go home when he had clear, ample opportunity? Most likely because he wanted a fight.

If he had had a gun and killed Zimmerman, he would be spending the rest of his adult life in prison for murder, because it would not have been a justified use of deadly force. He had absolutely no injuries on him and the witness put him on top of Zimmerman, beating him, which means he had a means of escape even until the end.
 
2013-07-15 11:34:37 AM

Rueened: It was more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming.


Demonstrably untrue, and everything you say from here on out should be distrusted.
 
2013-07-15 11:34:43 AM
 Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.


You do understand why this line of reasoning doesn't work don't you? If TM hadn't gone to the 7-11 this never would have happened. If GZ had been bowling instead this never would have happened. If TM had been born in Nebraska this never would have happened. Who's fault is it exactly? Are you going to charge GZ's father with manslaughter because if GZ had never been conceived this never would have happened? Where in the world do you think it starts? Well one point that can be made is that it starts with the first illegal action. Who did that? We don't know, GZ said it was TM. There's no evidence that GZ started it, so good luck proving him wrong.
 
2013-07-15 11:35:10 AM

doubled99: This just in: This case does not in any way effect you nor is it any statement at all on "society"


What're the odds double99 is a white male?
 
2013-07-15 11:35:12 AM

QueenMamaBee: redmid17: QueenMamaBee: Abuse Liability: QueenMamaBee: If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Amusing, but not nearly as much as Nancy Grace mention that George never missed an opportunity to hit 'Taco Bell'.  But we know the racists are only on one side of this argument.
/snert

Nancy Grace is an idiot and that's a stupid joke. Have you EVER seen a Mexican at Taco Bell? That's about as much "real" Mexican food as McDonald's has "real" beef.

She used to be semi-decent years ago.... has she gone off of her crazy pills? She's just.... evil.

I have see Hispanics at Taco Bell but that is really neither here nor there.

Really? I haven't been there in ages but I've never seen a Hispanic there. They're almost always at one of the local Mexican restaurants though. My Mexican cousins refuse to eat at Taco Bell. I do too, after a bout of food poisoning. Bleah.


I've seen them eating Taco Bell at the Thompson Center in Chicago, and given the range of food there it's not like it's necessary. I've seen them there in Indy too, but neither has been a frequent occurrence.
 
2013-07-15 11:35:40 AM
r1niceboy

He was told not to follow them. He followed them.

In other news, Zimmerman once called tech support and didn't have his boot discs handy, even though the guy told him to.

Also, one time at Wal-Mart, a sales associate said, "buy this, you won't be disappointed." Zimmerman didn't.

What's with his lack of respect for authority?
 
2013-07-15 11:35:41 AM

Phil McKraken: I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?

I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

The law is retarded.


Irrational fear does not give one the legal ability to murder people on the street
 
2013-07-15 11:35:58 AM

QueenMamaBee: Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.


Well, Lipizzaners change colors much like George has in this case.  He's gone from white to brown.  I think Clydesdales stay same color.
 
2013-07-15 11:35:59 AM
Well MSM needs to try harder to find a clear cut example of white on black violence to boost their ratings, someone whiter than Zimmerman.

Either that or a kidnapped blond white girl, that should get them through the end of summer.
 
2013-07-15 11:36:06 AM

Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.


Two different law enforcement agencies, one local and one federal, found no cause to bring charges.  The State Prosecutor even bypassed a grand jury specifically to get the charges filed.  Ostensibly because she KNEW a grand jury would never send it to trial.

Turns out they were right all along.  This case should never have gone to a trial and the circus surrounding it is a complete travesty.
 
2013-07-15 11:36:17 AM

Underwater Bystander: Does anyone else think the internet has killed our ability to riot?


Not at all. Just look at the Arab Spring: it's easy to argue that the riots were justified in this case -I'd agree, in fact- but they were riots nonetheless. What it has done, I think, is raise the bar.

In this day and age, the chances of being called to account for what you did while rioting have gone up exponentially. People are starting to realize this, and are less inclined to riot unless are sure they could be proud of what they did. That's not an easy goal to reach for rioting behavior, and so the incidence of riots goes down as a result. But it's a moderating behavior, not a complete inhibitor.
 
2013-07-15 11:36:18 AM
I am not a lawyer nor do I have any sort of legal training
I did not witness the crime nor was I present at the trial where all the evidence was presented
What I know about the case I learned from teevee and interweb when I had a minute or two to spare
So I have very strong views about this case and am adamant about my feelings on the outcome
Therefore, any of you who disagrees with me are not only wrong, you are complete dimwits and a stain upon humanity.

well that felt good to get off my chest
 
2013-07-15 11:36:20 AM

Phil McKraken: dittybopper:
If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

It's as easy as shooting Zimmerman and then claiming self defense - even if it's a lie. No one disputes that Zimmerman was following Martin, a provocative act that Zimmerman should have recognized as such and let the police do their jobs.


If I follow you, you feel justified in using physical force against me?  Interesting.  I hope no one follows you, for your sake, as you'll either wind up dead or in jail.
 
2013-07-15 11:36:36 AM

dr_blasto: DROxINxTHExWIND: From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shocking.

The riots in LA after the Rodney King verdict were due to years and years of abuse of poorer and mostly minority citizens by the system and its enforcers, corrupt and abusive cops that percieved their job as fighting a war against those very people they were charged with protecting. That verdict was just the spark. The unrest was already at a boil just under the surface.


And let us not forget that in this incident cops were caught on video tape beating Rodney King so it just wasn't a matter of his word against theirs.
 
2013-07-15 11:37:29 AM

cwheelie: I am not a lawyer nor do I have any sort of legal training
I did not witness the crime nor was I present at the trial where all the evidence was presented
What I know about the case I learned from teevee and interweb when I had a minute or two to spare
So I have very strong views about this case and am adamant about my feelings on the outcome
Therefore, any of you who disagrees with me are not only wrong, you are complete dimwits and a stain upon humanity.

well that felt good to get off my chest


Exactly!
 
2013-07-15 11:38:10 AM

urbangirl: omeganuepsilon: urbangirl: FTFY

Conveniently ignoring the truth of the situation is not fixing anything.

Violence perpetrated by a No Limit Youth is what led to his demise.  A violent path that he was on that even his friends warned him away from(the texts that were not admitted to the court talking about fighting).  Even Rachel told him to run, and she's barely self aware.

You're absolutely right.  I mean it's not as if Zimmerman ignored the warnings of actual real live police officers and instead got out of his car and created a dangerous situation where one didn't actually exist.  And it's not as if he did this before Martin ever had the opportunity to act violently.

It's not as if that's what happened.


I'm glad you understand that it did not happen. I guess you finally got off your lazy ass and paid attention to the facts both the State and defense agreed on at the trial.
 
2013-07-15 11:38:11 AM

dittybopper: Phil McKraken: I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

The law is retarded.

Actually it's eminently sensible.


No.  Make any other argument you want but the "stand your ground" law is of the most stupid pieces of legislation ever written.  It Re-writes nealy 1500 years of eminently workable law on the rights of self-defense at Common Law and replaces them with something designed solely to appeal to the macho fantasies of NRA contributors.  And that is NOT hyperbole but simple fact.  The "Stand Your Ground" law was not introduced by a judical committee after input by judges and cops and prosecutors.  Instead it was written, out of whole cloth, by an NRA lobbyist, who gave it to a pet Fl Legislator to introduce in exchange for getting an award (and a big check) from the NRA.   Its sole purpose was to give the NRA a "win" they could trumpet in thier newsletters to boost fundraising.  Fl Cops and prosecutors nearly unanimously opposed it, and the Law's use since its passage shows that several people have gotten away with murder because of it.
 
2013-07-15 11:38:24 AM

Cletus C.: Dimensio: Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.

When being followed in public, "confronting" the follower is not necessarily unjustified, regardless of race. Physically striking the follower is not justified, regardless of race.

Had Mr. Martin "confronted" Mr. Zimmerman only verbally, Mr. Zimmerman would not have been justified in the use of deadly force.

Maybe he did confront him only verbally. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun and said the punk wasn't going to get away with it again, whatever it was he was going to get away with. Maybe Martin thought he was about to die and tried to stop the crazy man. You don't know. I don't know, either. Just a dead unarmed teen and the guy who followed him in the dark and shot him.


Perhaps, had you contacted the prosecution with this baseless speculation, they could have used it at trial to secure an unappealable verdict against Mr. Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-15 11:38:46 AM

Phil McKraken: Marine1: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

I was referring more to the post suggesting that a punch would be a good idea than Martin's conduct. I've yet to find any good timeline of what happened that night. Honestly, I couldn't have voted guilty on that jury even if I had wanted to.

Uh...two people go into a room; the one with a gun following the first. The unarmed person is dead and the armed person claims self defense.

It makes no sense to me. What's the gun for if you don't intend trouble?


People carry for all sorts of reasons. The guy who spoke at my high school graduation was this school board member who bordered on hippie and wanted the school district to pay for the college expenses of any teachers who were Hispanic (he was Hispanic himself). He carried at his day job (not completely sure what it was) and one time forgot to take off the gun before attending a school board meeting on district property. Needless to say, he resigned. However, I don't see a guy with two daughters (one of which I was friends with) and who recommended that I run through fields with horses at my high school graduation as the kind to start trouble, regardless of what happened to be strapped to his ankle.

What happened that night is beyond the knowledge of pretty much everyone there. THAT is why I can't say George Zimmerman straight out murdered Trayvon Martin. Was he acting in a bizarre manner? Yes. Was he psychologically fit to carry that weapon? Arguably (but not certainly) not. But the man had blood running from his head, indicating that he had, at least for a bit, been on the ass-end of an ass beating. With the charges being murder and manslaughter (not stalking) and dubious accounts as to just what happened before he pulled the trigger, I couldn't vote guilty. It's how our justice system works, even though he obviously did some untoward things that night.
 
2013-07-15 11:38:59 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Jeantel's version is that Martin confronted Zimmerman, actually. This corroborated Zimmerman's account, and no one has suggested otherwise.


Her version indicates that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, correct?

Then the phone drops as there was a start to the struggle. I'm pretty sure that is the end of what she describes.

So...
Option A: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Martin strikes Zimmerman
Option B: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Zimmerman makes a move to grab Martin by the arm, Martin responds.

One of those two things happens.

Now, Zimmerman stated that he was struck from behind with no previous interaction and was taken to the ground. Jeantel's version seems to contradict that. And, I believe there was another witness that reported seeing two man standing and grappling. That would, similarly, indicate an issue with Zimmerman's story.

I don't see how you can possibly determine whether A or B is right.
 
2013-07-15 11:39:31 AM

Dimensio: According to Florida statutes regarding the justified use of force:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

History.-s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

An instigator of a physical confrontation cannot claim justification for use of deadly force unless the instigator attempts but is unable to disengage from the confrontation and is also unable to end the confrontation with lesser force or the instigator has withdrawn from the confrontation but is pursued by the assailant.


Even an instigator can claim self-defense if the other person goes deadly, or presses the attack after the instigator withdraws. I still deny that it is reasonable to call Zimmerman an instigator based solely on what we know, but even if we assume that he was, it would seem that self-defense still applies.
 
2013-07-15 11:40:37 AM

Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.


Was Martin's hands bagged?
 
2013-07-15 11:40:45 AM

Magorn: dittybopper: Phil McKraken: I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

The law is retarded.

Actually it's eminently sensible.

No.  Make any other argument you want but the "stand your ground" law is of the most stupid pieces of legislation ever written.  It Re-writes nealy 1500 years of eminently workable law on the rights of self-defense at Common Law and replaces them with something designed solely to appeal to the macho fantasies of NRA contributors.  And that is NOT hyperbole but simple fact.  The "Stand Your Ground" law was not introduced by a judical committee after input by judges and cops and prosecutors.  Instead it was written, out of whole cloth, by an NRA lobbyist, who gave it to a pet Fl Legislator to introduce in exchange for getting an award (and a big check) from the NRA.   Its sole purpose was to give the NRA a "win" they could trumpet in thier newsletters to boost fundraising.  Fl Cops and prosecutors nearly unanimously opposed it, and the Law's use since its passage shows that several people have gotten away with murder because of it.


I would say the implementation of the law has left quite a bit to be desired but the actual idea behind it is pretty outstanding.
 
2013-07-15 11:40:57 AM

Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Well, Lipizzaners change colors much ...


True. But they go from brown or black to white. George has done the opposite.
 
2013-07-15 11:41:54 AM

ph0rk: Some Bass Playing Guy: The best course of action is to get away from the person following you, while calling 911 to report it.

I thought the pro-gun lobby would have us believe that the cops are only there to clean up the mess afterwards, and you must defend your person and your property if you wish to keep both intact.


No, the pro gun lobby would have us believe that having a gun comes in handy when you're being viciously assaulted.
 
2013-07-15 11:42:04 AM

Phil McKraken: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

Oh really? Didn't a witness claim Zimmerman was on top? What happened before that? No one knows except the guy who took a gun, followed Trayvon and shot him. Zimmerman's actions BEFORE the altercation indicate to me that he took the gun because why? He was expecting trouble? Didn't Zimmerman have some martial arts training?

He's just playing Hollywood tough guy.


A witness claimed Zimmerman was on top, AFTER THE SHOOTING. Which he was, because he didn't think he had killed Trayvon and was trying to hold him down. The only witness to the incident clearly described Trayvon on top. I believe he was also the one who described MMA style attack in progress, and additionally told them to stop before he called the cops, at which point the shooting occurred.

Zimmerman probably always has his gun on him. I'm not a gun person, but if I was such a coward, I would carry it with me all the time, especially when on patrol and could possibly run into people who commit assault unjustified.
 
2013-07-15 11:42:08 AM

Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.

Was Martin's hands bagged?


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/medical-examiner-says-trayvon-marti n- suffered-after-being-shot-by-george-zimmerman/-/1637132/20851274/-/156 rxi6z/-/index.html
 
2013-07-15 11:42:22 AM
bulldg4life

Her version indicates that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, correct?

Yep yep.

Then the phone drops as there was a start to the struggle. I'm pretty sure that is the end of what she describes.

So...
Option A: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Martin strikes Zimmerman
Option B: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Zimmerman makes a move to grab Martin by the arm, Martin responds.

One of those two things happens.


Close enough for discussion.

Now, Zimmerman stated that he was struck from behind with no previous interaction and was taken to the ground.

No. Watch the trial, or his re-enactment with police, or his television interview, or anything else he said.
 
2013-07-15 11:42:32 AM

Phil McKraken: Dimensio: Phil McKraken: I_C_Weener: Phil McKraken: At what point did Martin waive his right to self defense? When he allegedly started the fight with Zimmerman? Was he not correct in fearing for his life?

So, you agree that neither one should have been charged under Florida law and neither one should have faced potential financial ruin and lost future for themselves and their family due to this case?

I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Please describe the specific actions undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman that constituted creation of a reasonable fear of imminent death or bodily injury to Mr. Martin.

The stalking?

Am I supposed to believe that Trayvon Martin spontaneously decided to attack Zimmerman without some reason? If Martin did initiate the aggression (and we only have the killer's word for this) it is likely he felt as though he were threatened. He should have had a gun, killed Zimmerman and live to tell his side of the "Stand Your Ground" story.


Merely following an individual in public does not create legal justification for the use of force. You must therefore be aware of some other action undertaken by Mr. Zimmerman that would create such legal justification. Please describe that action, and explain how you have determined Mr. Zimmerman to have engaged in it.
 
2013-07-15 11:43:02 AM

Magorn: dittybopper: Phil McKraken: I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin very likely believed he was defending his own life. Zimmerman had the gun and took positive, direct steps that led to Martin's death.

Do you have any evidence to back up your opinion?

If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

The law is retarded.

Actually it's eminently sensible.

No.  Make any other argument you want but the "stand your ground" law is of the most stupid pieces of legislation ever written.  It Re-writes nealy 1500 years of eminently workable law on the rights of self-defense at Common Law and replaces them with something designed solely to appeal to the macho fantasies of NRA contributors.  And that is NOT hyperbole but simple fact.  The "Stand Your Ground" law was not introduced by a judical committee after input by judges and cops and prosecutors.  Instead it was written, out of whole cloth, by an NRA lobbyist, who gave it to a pet Fl Legislator to introduce in exchange for getting an award (and a big check) from the NRA.   Its sole purpose was to give the NRA a "win" they could trumpet in thier newsletters to boost fundraising.  Fl Cops and prosecutors nearly unanimously opposed it, and the Law's use since its passage shows that several people have gotten away with murder because of it.


You realize that the law you're railing against was never part of this trial, right?

Why are you so willfully ignorant?
 
2013-07-15 11:43:06 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?


To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.
 
2013-07-15 11:43:29 AM
At least we got a whole new racial classification out of the deal.
 
2013-07-15 11:43:43 AM

ggecko: This is the absolute best advice you will see on this, and it is from a BLACK man:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFi0l--NPI


Wow, if I ever go to Akron Mississippi, I'd like to take that Steeler Fan out for a drink.
 
2013-07-15 11:43:44 AM

Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.


It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.
 
2013-07-15 11:43:51 AM
Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.
 
2013-07-15 11:44:20 AM
No really this came about because a lot of Florida became polarized in the sixties due to it's fast growth. You would have several completely different groups going in for jury duty who had agendas that were leading to a lot of hung juries. The civil rights blacks or their liberal friends from the north would let all the blacks go. The hippies would let all the drug guys go. The Cubans would let all the Cubans go. The rural population would let the country folks go in crimes against developers. And all it took was one on a jury of twelve to void out the entire trial. So they cut it to six except for capital cases and pushed it through the legislature by claiming it would save the government money.


DROxINxTHExWIND : This shiat is totally untrue and irresponsible.

So sorry but this is historical fact. Just because you want to re-invent history and wish it away to fit your preconceived notions of reality doesn't alter what happened.
 
2013-07-15 11:44:25 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.


"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?


Shh. They love dem dar hispaneek defehndants dern't they
 
2013-07-15 11:44:49 AM

Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.

Was Martin's hands bagged?


I just admitted the forensics were screwed up. I hardly think that was out of malice, but rather simple incompetence.  That's also not something you can go back and fix, so I don't see why they felt they had to charge Zimmerman in the first place.
 
2013-07-15 11:44:49 AM
I for one am upset that there were no riots. I had a shopping list for Best Buy all ready to go.
 
2013-07-15 11:45:21 AM

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Depends on state and local laws.
 
2013-07-15 11:46:00 AM

Latinwolf: Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?

To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.


To some people, it isn't.  Shocking, I know, but some people who see suspicious behavior don't let race influence their decision making process.

What a world!
 
2013-07-15 11:46:41 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Cletus C.

Jeantel's version stops short of the actual confrontation...

Jeantel's version is that Martin confronted Zimmerman, actually. This corroborated Zimmerman's account, and no one has suggested otherwise.

At least not in court or to the police. A lot of Farkers have their own theories without support.


Confronted? Please cut and paste where she said that.
 
2013-07-15 11:47:11 AM

someonelse: Rueened: It was more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming.

Demonstrably untrue, and everything you say from here on out should be distrusted.


Please proceed.
 
2013-07-15 11:48:05 AM
I must admit I'm surprised at the lack of rioting.  Everyone knows that black people have no lives or interests of their own, they just wander around all night attacking people at random like the zombies in a video game eg Castlevania.  Why don't black people realize that racism doesn't exist anymore and no one is racist?  But thank goodness there is no rioting, it is certainly due to just luck, because black people are violent and inferior and like any excuse to riot and be paranoid about racism.

/thick enough sarcasm for ya?
 
2013-07-15 11:48:49 AM
The Muthaship

At least we got a whole new racial classification out of the deal.

Not really. Zimmerman's still a mestizo. Most Americans don't know what that is, or think "Hispanic" means mestizo, or just aren't aware that much of Latin America is a gradient of mixtures. "White Hispanic" is a thing, but doesn't describe Zimmerman; he's literally as white as Obama.
 
2013-07-15 11:48:57 AM

omeganuepsilon: Latinwolf: Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?

To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.

To some people, it isn't.  Shocking, I know, but some people who see suspicious behavior don't let race influence their decision making process.

What a world!


I'd say that being young and male is probably more of the suspicious behavior, fwiw...
 
2013-07-15 11:49:35 AM

bulldg4life: Facetious_Speciest: Jeantel's version is that Martin confronted Zimmerman, actually. This corroborated Zimmerman's account, and no one has suggested otherwise.

Her version indicates that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, correct?

Then the phone drops as there was a start to the struggle. I'm pretty sure that is the end of what she describes.

So...
Option A: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Martin strikes Zimmerman
Option B: Martin says something to Zimmerman. Zimmerman asks something at the same time. Zimmerman makes a move to grab Martin by the arm, Martin responds.

One of those two things happens.

Now, Zimmerman stated that he was struck from behind with no previous interaction and was taken to the ground. Jeantel's version seems to contradict that. And, I believe there was another witness that reported seeing two man standing and grappling. That would, similarly, indicate an issue with Zimmerman's story.

I don't see how you can possibly determine whether A or B is right.


Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

Mr. Zimmerman said that as he walked back to his vehicle,  Mr. Martin appeared and said, "You got a problem?" Mr. Zimmerman told him he didn't.
"Well you do now," the teenager replied, according to Mr. Zimmerman's account. Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin punched him in the face as he fumbled for his mobile phone to call 9/11. Mr. Zimmerman said he fell backward and Mr. Martin got on top of him and slammed his head on the concrete sidewalk.


http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/21/zimmermans-version-of-events-mad e- public/
 
2013-07-15 11:49:46 AM

Phil McKraken: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

Oh really? Didn't a witness claim Zimmerman was on top?

Yes.  After the lethal shot was fired.  Irrelevant to the incident as the charged incident had already taken place.

What happened before that? Martin punched Zimmerman in the face then proceeded to slam Zimmerman's head against the concrete at which point Zimmerman drew his weapon and fired the lethal shot.

No one knows except the guy who took a gun, followed Trayvon and shot him. Actually, a witness testified to the fact that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and striking Zimmerman in a "ground and pound" fashion.  He reported he heard the shot immediately afterward. So, one person does know something.  The physical evidence of the wounds to both Trayvon and George verify these versions of the event.You didn't watch the trial either, that much is obvious.

Zimmerman's actions BEFORE the altercation indicate to me that he took the gun because why?  He was expecting trouble?  I don't know why you would believe...something, except that you are proposing a leading question that you only want to hear one conclusion to; that you believe that Zimmerman was looking for a fight.  Of course, you have no proof of this conclusion.  But, since you didn't watch the trial proceedings or read the transcript, I don't expect anything less.

Didn't Zimmerman have some martial arts training?Mwhahaha.  Instructor testified to the results of Zimmerman's vaunted MMA training.  Go read the transcripts.You'll understand why some people are laughing at your question.

He's just playing Hollywood tough guy.  You have your uninformed opinions.  You are certainly entitled to them.
 
2013-07-15 11:50:06 AM
Cletus C.

Confronted? Please cut and paste where she said that.

You want me to cut and paste where she said the word "confronted?"

That's cutting it a bit fine, yes? You realise that words have meaning without a particular person using them, right?
 
2013-07-15 11:50:17 AM

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Target probably doesn't allow it but I am not sure if they can eject people for carrying.concealed. Laws vary from state to state and I don't have a Florida CHL (or any for that matter).
 
2013-07-15 11:50:27 AM

Facetious_Speciest: No. Watch the trial, or his re-enactment with police, or his television interview, or anything else he said.


Sorry, his original statement was he was approached from the rear and then Martin confronted him and struck him in the face. That leaves out the part that Jeantel mentions where Zimmerman verbally confronts him before the struggle.

Apologies as I combined those two events.
 
2013-07-15 11:50:42 AM

Facetious_Speciest: "White Hispanic" is a thing, but doesn't describe Zimmerman; he's literally as white as Obama.


The media got to frame it as black and white, even if they had to hedge a bit.  I'm sure that thrilled them.
 
2013-07-15 11:51:18 AM

cwolf20: DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.


"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?

Shh. They love dem dar hispaneek defehndants dern't they


About as much as Republicans love Mormons. If the other choice is a black man its incredible how people can put aside their other prejudices and unite.
 
2013-07-15 11:51:21 AM

Latinwolf: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.

And if it had been a black man following a white person, you'd have people saying he had a right to confront that person in regards to why he was being following, not to let it slide.  Mind you the last time I pointed this out I was accused of playing the race card by one of the very same farkers who was running around saying "Black people will riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty".


Confront yes, attack no. The person who initiates physical violence cannot claim self defense. If Martin would have turned around and started yelling, asking questions verbally arguing with Zimmerman, called him a creepy ass craker, etc than Zimmerman would have had no justification to shoot or even display a firearm.

But that's not what happened. Martin initiated physical violence. That removes any claim he might have had of self defense again Zimmerman and gives that claim to Zimmerman. The jury saw this and made the right decision.
 
2013-07-15 11:51:56 AM

Dion Fortune: I must admit I'm surprised at the lack of rioting.  Everyone knows that black people have no lives or interests of their own, they just wander around all night attacking people at random like the zombies in a video game eg Castlevania.  Why don't black people realize that racism doesn't exist anymore and no one is racist?  But thank goodness there is no rioting, it is certainly due to just luck, because black people are violent and inferior and like any excuse to riot and be paranoid about racism.

/thick enough sarcasm for ya?


It'll do.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:07 AM

Latinwolf: Popcorn Johnny: Dimensio: I am aware of no evidence suggesting that Mr. Martin was "casing houses" on the night of his death.

Sure there is, Zim's phone call to report Trayvon's suspicious behavior. Or are you going with the ridiculous talking point that Zim called the police soley because he saw a black guy in hie neighborhood?

To some people, just being black is suspicious behavior.


Being black walking at night in a neighborhood that is only 20% black and has had recent break-ins by young black men is enough to be suspicious. That is not a racist thought that you should feel dirty about. Stopping at that thought is a little racist, but it causing suspicion to follow and/or investigate is not. If you add to the fact that GZ felt he was looking into windows/stalling at houses, this added even more to his suspicion. Granted that GZ's testimony there cannot be validated, but I fail to see the problem here. What do you think goes through the mind of people in a predominantly black neighborhood when they see a lone Hispanic man walking through the hood? I am totally sure that they are not suspicious and jumping to conclusions in their heads there. Racial profiling, despite it being a fun buzzword, is not as dirty as most make it out to be the majority of the time.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:27 AM

MarkEC: ggecko: This is the absolute best advice you will see on this, and it is from a BLACK man:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXFi0l--NPI

Wow, if I ever go to Akron Mississippi, I'd like to take that Steeler Fan out for a drink.


Every American, regardless of race, needs to watch this and learn from one of the most brilliant men in modern America.  He nailed it.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:35 AM

dittybopper: Phil McKraken: dittybopper:
If Martin had a gun, he could have shot Zimmerman instead of allegedly starting a fist fight. Had he done so, he could justify the killing the same way Zimmerman did.

Not really, not unless Zimmerman started hitting him.  Just being followed isn't reasonable grounds for being put in fear of your life.

It's as easy as shooting Zimmerman and then claiming self defense - even if it's a lie. No one disputes that Zimmerman was following Martin, a provocative act that Zimmerman should have recognized as such and let the police do their jobs.

If I follow you, you feel justified in using physical force against me?  Interesting.  I hope no one follows you, for your sake, as you'll either wind up dead or in jail.


I once discovered that I had been followed through the entire length of a local shopping mall by a film student who had an interest in using me in a scene in her student production (though nothing came of that). Some here evidently believe that I would have been justified in striking her in the face had I realised that she was following me.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:44 AM

QueenMamaBee: Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Well, Lipizzaners change col ...


Like George Costanza.  Opposite George.  See, it all fits.
 
2013-07-15 11:52:49 AM

Marine1: Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.

Depends on state and local laws.


Most "no gun" stores/businesses have the local statute written on them, it should define what places are exempt from the concealed carry law.

Not that everyone listens. I had a guy come in for a drug screen carrying concealed. He had to pass TWO signs saying "no weapons" and the Ky statute number. He said "I didn't think that applied to me." Well, genius, you can take NOTHING in with you when you do the test, what's keeping one of us from taking your gun? Or if he wants the hero scenario, if someone busts in with guns blazing, will he ask them to wait while he retrieves his gun from a locked locker? The only people allowed to carry in the office are the police officers when they come in for their randoms, other than than that.... gotta leave your crap in the car.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:11 AM

justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.


I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:14 AM
bulldg4life

Sorry, his original statement was he was approached from the rear and then Martin confronted him and struck him in the face. That leaves out the part that Jeantel mentions where Zimmerman verbally confronts him before the struggle.

Jeantel never said that Zimmerman confronted Martin. She testified that Martin verbally confronted Zimmerman.

Apologies as I combined those two events.

It's just a fark thread. shiat happens. :P
 
2013-07-15 11:53:17 AM

bulldg4life: lizannefel: Based on the fact that the media has ignored the case in Brunswick, Georgia where last March two teens shot 13 month old baby, Antonio Santiago, in the face during a robbery, the case in New Jersey where two brothers murdered 12 year old Autumn Pasquale and stuffed her body in a trash receptacle just to steal her BMX bike, and the case in Indiana where three men murdered 24 year old Jacqueline Gardner last May just to steal her $85 in tip money, I'd have to say that the case of a white Trayvon Martin being murdered by a black George Zimmerman would have never been sensationalised by the national media and therefore the case would be widely unknown to the American public.

In all three of your situations, the suspects were arrested and charged with murder within a week or two of the incident, if I'm correct. All three cases are progressing towards capital murder charges (in the first two cases, teens are being charged as adults).

Surely you see the difference and the cause of the initial outrage.


I do understand the initial outrage actually, Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter within a few weeks of an investigation as well. I say manslaughter because I think that was the prosecutions best bet at sending him to jail due to having an insufficient amount of evidence that would support a murder trial.
What I also see is a disgusting amount of people making this case about race and making that a vocal point of the situation. A kid is dead, it's sad I don't care what color he is and neither should anyone else.
And there are legitimate reasons why the murderers were charged so quickly in the three cases I brought up. In the Georgia case it helps that the baby's mother witnessed the murder and was shot herself, the boys in New Jersey were handed to police by their mother after she found that they had the victims BMX bike, and the police had an overwhelming amount of evidence to connect the three men to the murder in Indiana including two witnesses. Had the prosecution had witnesses saying they saw Zimmerman kill Martin with out being attacked Zimmerman would be in jail for murder. He was found not guilty because of lack of evidence not because he didn't kill the kid.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:48 AM

Phil McKraken: Marine1: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

I was referring more to the post suggesting that a punch would be a good idea than Martin's conduct. I've yet to find any good timeline of what happened that night. Honestly, I couldn't have voted guilty on that jury even if I had wanted to.

Uh...two people go into a room; the one with a gun following the first. The unarmed person is dead and the armed person claims self defense.

It makes no sense to me. What's the gun for if you don't intend trouble?


Do you own smoke detectors or fire extinguishers? Why, if you don't intend on setting your house on fire. Does your car have seatbelts? Why, if you don't intend on wrecking your car.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:52 AM

Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: QueenMamaBee: Magnus: God Is My Co-Pirate: Litterbox: Magorn: The Muthaship: FTA-   "In what universe does it make any sense, could it be considered legal, to stalk, confront, and murder a completely innocent teenager?" Stark asked a vocal, yet peaceful crowd.

I don't know, Mr. Stark.  What universe did that happen in?

this one.  Trayvon Martin is dead.   Trayvon Martin was legally and innocently walking from a store to his home when he was killed.  But for George Zimmerman's actions on that night Martin would still be alive.  Fact are facts.  The Not Guilty verdict was the correct one based on the very poor job the prosecution did at trial.  But you are delusional if you think Zimmerman is in any way innocent of the murder of Martin

You need to put your emotions aside and look at the physical evidence.  If TM had not assaulted GZ, TM would be alive.

And if GZ hadn't assumed that a black kid walking down the street was a criminal, and hadn't been itching to play the hero in his own head, nothing would have happened.
 

If Trayvon had not gone to the store and walked back home, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had stayed at home after his initial  interaction with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not returned to find George after initially losing contact with George, this wouldn't have happened.

If Trayvon had not struck George in the face with his fist and then decided to mount George like a Lipizzaner horse and proceed to bash George's head into the concrete, this wouldn't have happened.


So much blame to go around...and yet, the jury found George not guilty.  Hmmmm.  I wonder why they found him not guilty by reason of self-defenese and what that actually means.  I should go look that up.  Maybe there is something about defending oneself from imminent bodily harm in there.  I think I'll do that.

Can't believe we are still trying this case.  Ugh.

I believe George would be more of a Clydesdale.

Well, Lipizzan ...


I lol'd. Good one.
 
2013-07-15 11:54:04 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: DROxINxTHExWIND: cwolf20: I wonder what prosecutor round 1 has to say since he refused to prosecute since there wasn't enough evidence resulting in whining which spawned a different prosecution.


"Thank goodness there were 5 white women on that jury"?

Shh. They love dem dar hispaneek defehndants dern't they

About as much as Republicans love Mormons. If the other choice is a black man its incredible how people can put aside their other prejudices and unite.


Oddly enough I have neither one side or the other on it.  So the discussion is more amusing than anything.  I thought you were referring to the fact that people think that since he's a white hispanic as a lot of people call him, he's racist
 
2013-07-15 11:55:26 AM

Dimensio: Maybe he did confront him only verbally. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun and said the punk wasn't going to get away with it again, whatever it was he was going to get away with. Maybe Martin thought he was about to die and tried to stop the crazy man. You don't know. I don't know, either. Just a dead unarmed teen and the guy who followed him in the dark and shot him.

Perhaps, had you contacted the prosecution with this baseless speculation, they could have used it at trial to secure an unappealable verdict against Mr. Zimmerman.


You're not allowed to just make shiat up in court. Which one of the reasons Zimmerman did not testify.
 
2013-07-15 11:55:32 AM

redmid17: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

The investigation was so inadequate that the 2nd investigation including federal authorities and a new prosecutor found nothing new? Where they more or less lied in the affidavit of probable cause? Where the defense was denied information during the discovery phase by the state attorney's office?


The original investigation was inadequate. We're talking about the preservation of forensic evidence, toxicology of the suspect, and so on. The second review was merely a reexamination of the previously collected evidence and a few additional interviews. The first investigation was problematic.
 
2013-07-15 11:56:00 AM

Millennium: Dimensio: According to Florida statutes regarding the justified use of force:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.-s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

An instigator of a physical confrontation cannot claim justification for use of deadly force unless the instigator attempts but is unable to disengage from the confrontation and is also unable to end the confrontation with lesser force or the instigator has withdrawn from the confrontation but is pursued by the assailant.

Even an instigator can claim self-defense if the other person goes deadly, or presses the attack after the instigator withdraws. I still deny that it is reasonable to call Zimmerman an instigator based solely on what we know, but even if we assume that he was, it would seem that self-defense still applies.


I concur with your assessment, but evidence indicating that Mr. Zimmerman had instigated the physical confrontation would warrant charges based upon the instigation. An individual who commits assault and battery, and then justifiably uses deadly force when an attempt to escape the ensuing physical confrontation fails, has still committed assault and battery. Florida law would not prevent such charges from being applied.
 
2013-07-15 11:57:24 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Jeantel never said that Zimmerman confronted Martin. She testified that Martin verbally confronted Zimmerman.


Her comments stated that Martin asks Zimmerman a question at the same time Zimmerman asks Martin a question.

I mean, what if Martin is standing there on the phone and Zimmerman walks up on him? They ask each other questions at the same time, then either:
a) Martin pushes Zimmerman away
b) Zimmerman makes an attempt to grab Martin by the arm

I don't believe you can definitively state which of those things happened.

lizannefel: I do understand the initial outrage actually


If you do understand the initial outrage, then why did you bring up cases where the charges were quite quickly filed and admonish people for not making it a national story?

I mean, if there were no charges filed in the other cases, I'm sure it would've been more of a story.
 
2013-07-15 11:57:41 AM

Phil McKraken: Didn't Zimmerman have some martial arts training?


A few months: just enough to hinder him in a fight rather than help. The first few years of martial arts training are a very dangerous time for beginners, because you're still unlearning all your old instincts and haven't had enough time to ingrain the new ones yet. You actually get worse in a fight before you get better, which is where most of the "LOL martial arts don't work" stories come from: for the first few years, they really don't. But there's no avoiding it: you've got to get through that stage to get to the point where they actually start doing something for you, and Zimmerman was not there. If his instructor's evaluation is any indication, he had a long, long way to go.

Now, it's possible that Zimmerman wasn't aware of this. Instructors warn about this pretty strenuously, but it still happens to beginners all the time. It's a nasty way to learn how much you don't know, but some people don't learn any other way.
 
2013-07-15 11:58:29 AM
bulldg4life

I don't believe you can definitively state which of those things happened.

True. I wasn't there.

/shrug
 
2013-07-15 11:58:38 AM

justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.

It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.


And you dutifully mouth unsubstantiated "facts" from the Zimmerman version.
 
2013-07-15 11:58:57 AM

bulldg4life: I don't believe you can definitively state which of those things happened.


So vote guilty.
 
2013-07-15 11:59:19 AM

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Few national retail chains prohibit the possession of firearms by lawfully permitted individuals. In fact, on one occasion I carried an openly displayed firearm in a Target store.

/I no longer carry openly, out of courtesy to local police who informed me that they prefer citizens to carry concealed.
 
2013-07-15 12:00:06 PM

Latinwolf: dr_blasto: DROxINxTHExWIND: From comments in previous threads, I know a lot of Farkers are disappointed that there was no rioting. I think the unrest that came after the Rodney King verdict was in part because of the shock that the officers would walk. Nothing about the verdict in the Trayvon Martin case was shocking.

The riots in LA after the Rodney King verdict were due to years and years of abuse of poorer and mostly minority citizens by the system and its enforcers, corrupt and abusive cops that percieved their job as fighting a war against those very people they were charged with protecting. That verdict was just the spark. The unrest was already at a boil just under the surface.

And let us not forget that in this incident cops were caught on video tape beating subduing Rodney King as he was resisting arrest so it just wasn't a matter of his word against theirs.


Per the jury, at least, since they were all acquitted of using excessive force. Which, really, is how trials go. Zimmerman shot Martin; he was acquitted of murder and manslaughter. All it means is he's not going to PMITA prison.
 
2013-07-15 12:00:34 PM

The Muthaship: So vote guilty.


I don't believe I have ever indicated thinking that. Most certainly not in this thread.
 
2013-07-15 12:00:55 PM

Facetious_Speciest: Cletus C.

Confronted? Please cut and paste where she said that.

You want me to cut and paste where she said the word "confronted?"

That's cutting it a bit fine, yes? You realise that words have meaning without a particular person using them, right?


Oh no. Just cut and paste where you think her testimony indicated Martin confronted Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-15 12:01:37 PM
Cletus C.

Oh no. Just cut and paste where you think her testimony indicated Martin confronted Zimmerman.

Sure. Which transcript are you using?
 
2013-07-15 12:02:08 PM

justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

Mr. Zimmerman said that as he walked back to his vehicle,  Mr. Martin appeared and said, "You got a problem?" Mr. Zimmerman told him he didn't.
"Well you do now," the teenager replied, according to Mr. Zimmerman's account. Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin punched him in the face as he fumbled for his mobile phone to call 9/11. Mr. Zimmerman said he fell backward and Mr. Martin got on top of him and slammed his head on the concrete sidewalk.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/21/zimmermans-version-of-events-mad e- public/



I think I found your problem. You and a lot of others here. Zimmerman's account of the incident is not and should not be viewed as "fact".
 
2013-07-15 12:02:39 PM

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


Why do I have you farkied as a lawyer? That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.
 
2013-07-15 12:04:49 PM

bulldg4life: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.


Fair enough. I think both could be true. Very possible neither of them accurately remember what was said or all of what was said.

Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Again that's my opinion. We will definitely never know for sure.
 
2013-07-15 12:05:33 PM
I agree with the jury.

Only because of the facts I've read. Not the opinions of emotional derp spreaders.
 
2013-07-15 12:05:59 PM

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


I think Target carries CCW on CD.

longshotsblues.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-15 12:06:17 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND:
I think I found your problem. You and a lot of others here. Zimmerman's account of the incident is not and should not be viewed as "fact".

But how else are they going to definitively state that Martin started it while admonishing others for definitively stating Zimmerman shared blame.
 
2013-07-15 12:06:46 PM

Dimensio: Millennium: Dimensio: According to Florida statutes regarding the justified use of force:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
History.-s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

An instigator of a physical confrontation cannot claim justification for use of deadly force unless the instigator attempts but is unable to disengage from the confrontation and is also unable to end the confrontation with lesser force or the instigator has withdrawn from the confrontation but is pursued by the assailant.

Even an instigator can claim self-defense if the other person goes deadly, or presses the attack after the instigator withdraws. I still deny that it is reasonable to call Zimmerman an instigator based solely on what we know, but even if we assume that he was, it would seem that self-defense still applies.

I concur with your assessment, but evidence indicating that Mr. Zimmerman had instigated the physical confrontation would warrant charges based upon the instigation. An individual who commits assault and battery, and then justifiably uses deadly force when an attempt to escape the ensuing physical confrontation fails, has still committed assault and battery. ...


Battery requires injury, simple assault does not
 
2013-07-15 12:06:46 PM

I_C_Weener: [www.bet.com image 628x353]

What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?


What is Zimmerman were white?
 
2013-07-15 12:07:35 PM
Know Justice. Know Peace
 
2013-07-15 12:08:05 PM

justtray: bulldg4life: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.

Fair enough. I think both could be true. Very possible neither of them accurately remember what was said or all of what was said.

Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Again that's my opinion. We will definitely never know for sure.


Small correction, Tray said "What you followin' me fo'?"
 
2013-07-15 12:08:15 PM

QueenMamaBee: Marine1: Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.

Depends on state and local laws.

Most "no gun" stores/businesses have the local statute written on them, it should define what places are exempt from the concealed carry law.

Not that everyone listens. I had a guy come in for a drug screen carrying concealed. He had to pass TWO signs saying "no weapons" and the Ky statute number. He said "I didn't think that applied to me." Well, genius, you can take NOTHING in with you when you do the test, what's keeping one of us from taking your gun? Or if he wants the hero scenario, if someone busts in with guns blazing, will he ask them to wait while he retrieves his gun from a locked locker? The only people allowed to carry in the office are the police officers when they come in for their randoms, other than than that.... gotta leave your crap in the car.


In Florida it does not appear that private property owners can bar people from coming in with a concealed weapon but it is highly frowned upon doing so if asked not to.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statut e &Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html">http://www. leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute &Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf
 
2013-07-15 12:08:29 PM

Cletus C.: justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.

It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.

And you dutifully mouth unsubstantiated "facts" from the Zimmerman version.


Such as?
 
2013-07-15 12:08:53 PM

justtray: Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"


Considering Zimmerman's violent past, do you feel that he politely engaged in a conversation?
 
2013-07-15 12:09:09 PM
The lesson to take away from all of this: If you want a bit of excitement in your life, go out at night in Florida, follow someone around until they get agitated enough to confront you, then shoot them dead.

No evidence necessary.  Your word against a dead person's.  You get off Scot free.

Meanwhile, if you sneeze while driving and run someone over who is crossing the street, enjoy your manslaughter conviction.
 
2013-07-15 12:09:55 PM

Facetious_Speciest: Cletus C.

Oh no. Just cut and paste where you think her testimony indicated Martin confronted Zimmerman.

Sure. Which transcript are you using?


She testified that Martin said "why are you following me?" In her deposition, she said Zimmerman responded "what are you talking about." In her courtroom testimony she said Zimmerman responded "what are you doing around here?"

Either way, she said Martin said "why are you following me?" This, according to you is Martin initiating a confrontation. Others may see it as a guy wanting to know why some creep is following him around.
 
2013-07-15 12:09:56 PM

INeedAName: Yes. Some of us actually work with black urban youth, and the non-verbal responses I see in grown adults, every day, when a young black man walks up to them and begins a conversation is repulsive. People grab their purses or pat their pockets to check for their wallets, they step back, they close off their body language, they start to look around for some reason to leave the conversation. It's amazing.


I check my wallet whenever anyone I don't know reasonably well walks too close to me :\
I just get paranoid that someone might take all of my nothing.
 
2013-07-15 12:10:22 PM

TheSup3rN0va: justtray: bulldg4life: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.

Fair enough. I think both could be true. Very possible neither of them accurately remember what was said or all of what was said.

Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Again that's my opinion. We will definitely never know for sure.

Small correction, Tray said "What you followin' me fo'?"


Actually, Tray said "Why you followin' me fo'?"
 
2013-07-15 12:10:37 PM

Elegy: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

Why do I have you farkied as a lawyer? That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.


There are additional facts in that case, but the point I was making, a correct one, was that the woman fired a gun into an inanimate object, and still got a 20 year minimum sentence.  That's insane to me, especially in a state that seems to be ENCOURAGING people to resort to violence by passing a SYG law.   I understand subtlety is a difficult concept for you but....
 
2013-07-15 12:10:54 PM

bulldg4life: justtray: Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Considering Zimmerman's violent past, do you feel that he politely engaged in a conversation?


Citation needed
 
2013-07-15 12:10:55 PM
Phillip J.Fry This just in: This case does not in any way effect you nor is it any statement at all on "society"

What're the odds double99 is a white male?



I thought racial profiling was wrong.
 
2013-07-15 12:11:07 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

Mr. Zimmerman said that as he walked back to his vehicle,  Mr. Martin appeared and said, "You got a problem?" Mr. Zimmerman told him he didn't.
"Well you do now," the teenager replied, according to Mr. Zimmerman's account. Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin punched him in the face as he fumbled for his mobile phone to call 9/11. Mr. Zimmerman said he fell backward and Mr. Martin got on top of him and slammed his head on the concrete sidewalk.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/21/zimmermans-version-of-events-mad e- public/


I think I found your problem. You and a lot of others here. Zimmerman's account of the incident is not and should not be viewed as "fact".


It's a fact that he said that, that he's on the recorded call saying it. You seem mad.

It is a fact that you selectively editted my post to remove the portion where I was proving Zimmerman did not say he was hit from behind with no speaking beforehand.

What a shocker that you're a totally dishonest person.
 
2013-07-15 12:11:25 PM
Cletus C.

This, according to you is Martin initiating a confrontation. Others may see it as a guy wanting to know why some creep is following him around.

[whynotboth.jpg]
 
2013-07-15 12:12:02 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: I think I found your problem. You and a lot of others here. Zimmerman's account of the incident is not and should not be viewed as "fact".


Yes, his is the only full story, so it is suspect but only that.  It does not directly necessitate that he is lying.  Much of his story is backed up by things that are fact and even a vast amount of testimony from other witnesses, even some of what Rachel Jeantel said corroborates what Zimm said.  Zimm's story came before he ever had exposure to said witness testimony and even some of the evidence.

Once occam's razor has it's way, Zimm's not discredited in the least.  Problematic for your perception of reality, sure, that's a problem many mentally challenged people with daily.  You'll get over it.

Elegy: That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.


A lot of guest lawyers on TV push similarly ignorant agenda's.  Education =\= Intelligence
 
2013-07-15 12:12:14 PM
If Trayvon had turned around and aid, "Why you be followin' me?" instead of attacking him, Trayvon woud be alive today.

i1308.photobucket.com

NO JUSTICE, NO GEORGE!
 
2013-07-15 12:12:15 PM
I'm glad Zimmerman was found not guilty.  And since most of Fark, who was at the scene of the killing every bit as much as I was, can say Zimmerman stalked Martin, I can say Martin was a no good thug that attacked Zimmerman and got his thug ass killed for it.  Good.  Another piece of shiat low life criminal off the streets,

Won't somebody think of the Skittles?

keepcalmandtrayvon.com
 
2013-07-15 12:12:41 PM

justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.

It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.

And you dutifully mouth unsubstantiated "facts" from the Zimmerman version.

Such as?


There you go. No definitive proof Martin was "continuing the assault" and certainly no definitive evidence it was Zimmerman's voice calling for help.
 
2013-07-15 12:12:57 PM

AngryDragon: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Two different law enforcement agencies, one local and one federal, found no cause to bring charges.  The State Prosecutor even bypassed a grand jury specifically to get the charges filed.  Ostensibly because she KNEW a grand jury would never send it to trial.

Turns out they were right all along.  This case should never have gone to a trial and the circus surrounding it is a complete travesty.


I think the legal outcome was consistent with the law based on what was presented. The jurors did their job.

With that said - anyone who thinks that the investigation was thorough probably has a poor understanding of how that process works.

There's some evidence that cannot be collected during a secondary investigation and was not preserved or collected during the first.

It really doesn't matter how many subsequent investigations were conducted if the first was inadequate .
 
2013-07-15 12:14:10 PM

bulldg4life: justtray: Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Considering Zimmerman's violent past, do you feel that he politely engaged in a conversation?


Please cite this violent past. I'll wait.

And considering his NON-violent past calls of suspicious behaviors to police, yes, I don't think he likely said anything close to 'fighting words' that would justify an attack. I'm open to changing my opinion if you give me some plausable scenarios. Do you think he said, 'hey ni-bong im gonna shoot you in a minute!?'
 
2013-07-15 12:16:08 PM

justtray: bulldg4life: justtray: Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Considering Zimmerman's violent past, do you feel that he politely engaged in a conversation?

Please cite this violent past. I'll wait.

And considering his NON-violent past calls of suspicious behaviors to police, yes, I don't think he likely said anything close to 'fighting words' that would justify an attack. I'm open to changing my opinion if you give me some plausable scenarios. Do you think he said, 'hey ni-bong im gonna shoot you in a minute!?'


I heard somewhere he almost beat a police officer unconscious but wasn't convicted because of some quick lawyering by his family. I don't know if it is true but people keep saying it so there must be something behind it.
 
2013-07-15 12:16:26 PM

justtray: DROxINxTHExWIND: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

Mr. Zimmerman said that as he walked back to his vehicle,  Mr. Martin appeared and said, "You got a problem?" Mr. Zimmerman told him he didn't.
"Well you do now," the teenager replied, according to Mr. Zimmerman's account. Mr. Zimmerman said Mr. Martin punched him in the face as he fumbled for his mobile phone to call 9/11. Mr. Zimmerman said he fell backward and Mr. Martin got on top of him and slammed his head on the concrete sidewalk.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/06/21/zimmermans-version-of-events-mad e- public/


I think I found your problem. You and a lot of others here. Zimmerman's account of the incident is not and should not be viewed as "fact".

It's a fact that he said that, that he's on the recorded call saying it. You seem mad.

It is a fact that you selectively editted my post to remove the portion where I was proving Zimmerman did not say he was hit from behind with no speaking beforehand.

What a shocker that you're a totally dishonest person.



Thats not true, sir.

/My post has nothing to do with Zimmerman being hit from behind, so that part of your post was immaterial.
 
2013-07-15 12:16:44 PM

creepy ass-cracka: TheSup3rN0va: justtray: bulldg4life: justtray: Check your facts if you're going to make the basis of your beliefs on them.

I believe I indicated going off of Jeantel's course of events.

I mean, it is in the post that you quoted and admonished me for.

Zimmerman states that it went:
- Martin says "you got a problem" and hits him

Jeantel states that it went:
- Martin says "why are you following me" while Zimmerman asks "what are you doing here"
- Then there is a struggle.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know which of those is true.

Fair enough. I think both could be true. Very possible neither of them accurately remember what was said or all of what was said.

Based on Jeantel testifying that Trayvon referred to Zimmerman as a creepy ass cracka, it seems very unlikely to me he would then politely start a conversation with "why are you following me[, good sir]?" In my opinion it seems much more likely he would have said the "[Yo] You got a problem??"

Again that's my opinion. We will definitely never know for sure.

Small correction, Tray said "What you followin' me fo'?"

Actually, Tray said "Why you followin' me fo'?"


Surprisingly, her testimony saying that led me to believe she was being more truthful there. I wonder if that makes me racist...

Also, lets not call him Tray, it confuses me.... (see screenname)
 
2013-07-15 12:16:53 PM

Magorn: Elegy: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

Why do I have you farkied as a lawyer? That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.

There are additional facts in that case, but the point I was making, a correct one, was that the woman fired a gun into an inanimate object, and still got a 20 year minimum sentence.  That's insane to me, especially in a state that seems to be ENCOURAGING people to resort to violence by passing a SYG law.   I understand subtlety is a difficult concept for you but....


She fired a shot into an inanimate object in the same vicinity as her ex and two children while not fearing for her life and violating a restraining order. I mean she was caught on tape saying "I have something for you."

If you actually read the case, there's not much dispute. She's as guilty as water is wet. They offered her 3 years with time served. She turned it down. Now 20 years is a ridiculous sentence for a crime where no one was hurt, but that's what you often get with mandatory minimums.
 
2013-07-15 12:17:09 PM

TheSup3rN0va: Citation needed


justtray: Please cite this violent past. I'll wait.


He was arrested and charged with resisting a police officer with violence. He agreed to enter an alcohol education program and the charges waived.

I guess we could even ignore the "run of the mill" domestic violence issues.

Do you feel that both of those are completely explainable and give no indication of his temperament?
 
2013-07-15 12:17:56 PM

Rueened: someonelse: Rueened: It was more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming.

Demonstrably untrue, and everything you say from here on out should be distrusted.

Please proceed.


For the record, you are claiming that the below pics are "more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming." Even if the "million" estimates were way high and exaggerated, you are still laughably, demonstrably wrong. Although, I suppose we could ask people to look at the pictures and answer the question: Do these look more like "millions" or "5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog." You know, to be scientific about it.

upload.wikimedia.org

i.huffpost.com

img.dailymail.co.uk

i.huffpost.com
 
2013-07-15 12:18:24 PM
 
2013-07-15 12:19:18 PM

Bontesla: redmid17: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

The investigation was so inadequate that the 2nd investigation including federal authorities and a new prosecutor found nothing new? Where they more or less lied in the affidavit of probable cause? Where the defense was denied information during the discovery phase by the state attorney's office?

The original investigation was inadequate. We're talking about the preservation of forensic evidence, toxicology of the suspect, and so on. The second review was merely a reexamination of the previously collected evidence and a few additional interviews. The first investigation was problematic.


What would the toxicology report have shown that would have changed the outcome of the trial? Even if Martin was under the influence of drugs that affected the jury, Zim already walked.

Preserving the evidence would and should have been done in a better manner, but the lack of good forensic evidence hurt Zimmerman more than it helped him.
 
2013-07-15 12:19:42 PM

Cletus C.: justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Cletus C.: justtray: Phil McKraken: Marine1:  Is it dickish? Yeah. Should Zimmerman be acting like the cop in the story I told? No. However, punching someone is not the way to go in that situation, no matter what.

There's evidence that Martin swung first?

There's evidence Martin did ALL the swinging. First, middle, and last.

No there isn't. There's evidence Martin is the only one who connected. Considering Zimmerman's fighting skills that's no surprise.

It really makes no practical difference.

If Zimmerman took a swing and missed, Trayvon was still not justified in continuing the assault on the ground while Zimmerman was calling for help, desperately.

What you described is literally the best possible light for Trayvon that could have reasonably occurred. However, it's not supported by any facts or evidence.

And you dutifully mouth unsubstantiated "facts" from the Zimmerman version.

Such as?

There you go. No definitive proof Martin was "continuing the assault" and certainly no definitive evidence it was Zimmerman's voice calling for help.


Actually, it's pretty definitive. The witness Good testified to it, the defense trouted out about 6-8 people who testified it was absolutely Zimmerman when having heard the call the first time alone, and that even Trayvon's own father at the very least implied it was not his son to police officers, who testified to it. The Martin family that said it was Trayvon had absolutely no credibility and did not follow any legal procedure when identifying it as him.

It's not proof, but if you watched the case, it was definitive, in my opinion.
 
2013-07-15 12:20:21 PM

urbangirl: The Muthaship: urbangirl: What precise part of my comment is factually incorrect?

All of it.

But, you aren't alone.

Perhaps you can tell me by number which of my statement is factually incorrect:

1) Police tell Zimmerman to stay in his car.
2) Zimmerman gets out of his car anyway.
3) Zimmerman getting out of his car escalated the situation.
4) Martin had not been violent with Zimmerman before Zimmerman got out of his car.



Police never told Zimmerman to stay in his car. He called 911, the civilian who answers the phone call is not a duly sworn law enforcement officer, therefore they can not tell anyone what to do legally. In fact if they do tell or try to order someone to do something, they are opening themselves and the 911 dispatch center open to liability and to set themselves up for a lawsuit.
 
2013-07-15 12:21:49 PM

redmid17: Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.

Was Martin's hands bagged?

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/medical-examiner-says-trayvon-marti n- suffered-after-being-shot-by-george-zimmerman/-/1637132/20851274/-/156 rxi6z/-/index.html


So we both agree that the investigation was inadequate. Excellent!
 
2013-07-15 12:21:52 PM

justtray: Surprisingly, her testimony saying that led me to believe she was being more truthful there. I wonder if that makes me racist...

Also, lets not call him Tray, it confuses me.... (see screenname)


According to the media, when she spoke like that it made her sound "more authentic," so I don't think it makes you racist.

Okay, I won't call him just 'tray' any longer.
 
2013-07-15 12:22:10 PM

bulldg4life: TheSup3rN0va: Citation needed

justtray: Please cite this violent past. I'll wait.

He was arrested and charged with resisting a police officer with violence. He agreed to enter an alcohol education program and the charges waived.

I guess we could even ignore the "run of the mill" domestic violence issues.

Do you feel that both of those are completely explainable and give no indication of his temperament?


Did you see the testimony from his trainer, who said Zim would be lucky to be able to fight his way out of a wet paper sack?
 
2013-07-15 12:22:14 PM

Bontesla: AngryDragon: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Two different law enforcement agencies, one local and one federal, found no cause to bring charges.  The State Prosecutor even bypassed a grand jury specifically to get the charges filed.  Ostensibly because she KNEW a grand jury would never send it to trial.

Turns out they were right all along.  This case should never have gone to a trial and the circus surrounding it is a complete travesty.

I think the legal outcome was consistent with the law based on what was presented. The jurors did their job.

With that said - anyone who thinks that the investigation was thorough probably has a poor understanding of how that process works.

There's some evidence that cannot be collected during a secondary investigation and was not preserved or collected during the first.

It really doesn't matter how many subsequent investigations were conducted if the first was inadequate .


That's already been agreed upon.  But the initial reason this was brought to light was because Melissa Harris Perry believed Sanford "swept this investigation under the rug", which was untrue.  Many defense lawyers (including Zimmerman's) found the investigation to be quite thorough, barring the forensic screw up (which I repeat, is not the lead investigators fault, but rather the technician that failed to bag the hands).  All the correct tests were ordered (DNA, firearm prints, forensics on the sweatshirt, etc...), but some of that evidence was beyond salvaging or incorrectly collected (like dusting for prints on the scene before bagging everything and protecting the evidence).  Once again, the officer responsible for leading the investigation can't monitor every single person to make sure they're doing their job correctly.
 
2013-07-15 12:22:15 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: We also had some not rioting in our city.

What happened to all those farkers who were predicting (hoping for) riots all over?


Those racists are left limp once again. Let us all take a moment and pity them.
 
2013-07-15 12:22:50 PM

bulldg4life: TheSup3rN0va: Citation needed

justtray: Please cite this violent past. I'll wait.

He was arrested and charged with resisting a police officer with violence. He agreed to enter an alcohol education program and the charges waived.

I guess we could even ignore the "run of the mill" domestic violence issues.

Do you feel that both of those are completely explainable and give no indication of his temperament?


I'm sorry but I'm not seeing any citations. It was my understanding that the officer was off duty and had grabbed one of his friends, and that the 'violence' was not major in any way. Some here have described it as a 'police saving face' ruling.

I also don't think there was any credibility to the domestic violence issues, as non resulted in any legal action (as far as I know, I didn't investigate these).

I would honestly like to know more if you have some sources.
 
2013-07-15 12:23:17 PM

5minutes: Here's a video of people not getting hurt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v7RXJpLqtpY


The WWE pay per view last night was more realistic than that.
 
2013-07-15 12:24:27 PM

TheSup3rN0va: Did you see the testimony from his trainer, who said Zim would be lucky to be able to fight his way out of a wet paper sack?


Being a bad fighter or lacking fighting prowess doesn't indicate temperament, does it?
 
2013-07-15 12:24:34 PM

TheSup3rN0va: bulldg4life: TheSup3rN0va: Citation needed

justtray: Please cite this violent past. I'll wait.

He was arrested and charged with resisting a police officer with violence. He agreed to enter an alcohol education program and the charges waived.

I guess we could even ignore the "run of the mill" domestic violence issues.

Do you feel that both of those are completely explainable and give no indication of his temperament?

Did you see the testimony from his trainer, who said Zim would be lucky to be able to fight his way out of a wet paper sack?


Speaking of the trainer did he ever send out emails about zimmerman's training program people couild sign up for on his website?
 
2013-07-15 12:25:57 PM

Magorn: Elegy: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

Why do I have you farkied as a lawyer? That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.

There are additional facts in that case, but the point I was making, a correct one, was that the woman fired a gun into an inanimate object, and still got a 20 year minimum sentence.  That's insane to me, especially in a state that seems to be ENCOURAGING people to resort to violence by passing a SYG law.   I understand subtlety is a difficult concept for you but....


sigh... this has been covered a bunch.

The girl discharged a firearm in a populated dwelling with no intended target. Dumb biatch.

SYG laws do not include warning shots. Even the police cannot legally fire warning shots.
Just ask anyone who's familiar with firearms when is it ok to fire a gaddam warning shot?
I'll give you a hint... It's never farking ok to fire a farking warning shot.
 
2013-07-15 12:26:37 PM

Abuse Liability: Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.

Was Martin's hands bagged?

I just admitted the forensics were screwed up. I hardly think that was out of malice, but rather simple incompetence.  That's also not something you can go back and fix, so I don't see why they felt they had to charge Zimmerman in the first place.


I don't think the investigation was maliciously tanked. I have no evidence of that.

I think it certainly hurt the investigation (which was my point). It could have helped or hurt Zimmerman. That's why I attributed the outcome of the case partially to the inadequate investigation.

I'm not wrong in this.
 
2013-07-15 12:26:41 PM

redmid17: QueenMamaBee: Marine1: Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.

Depends on state and local laws.

Most "no gun" stores/businesses have the local statute written on them, it should define what places are exempt from the concealed carry law.

Not that everyone listens. I had a guy come in for a drug screen carrying concealed. He had to pass TWO signs saying "no weapons" and the Ky statute number. He said "I didn't think that applied to me." Well, genius, you can take NOTHING in with you when you do the test, what's keeping one of us from taking your gun? Or if he wants the hero scenario, if someone busts in with guns blazing, will he ask them to wait while he retrieves his gun from a locked locker? The only people allowed to carry in the office are the police officers when they come in for their randoms, other than than that.... gotta leave your crap in the car.

In Florida it does not appear that private property owners can bar people from coming in with a concealed weapon but it is highly frowned upon doing so if asked not to.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statut e &Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html">http://www. leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute &Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf


Like many states, Florida simply does not criminalize the act of carrying a concealed firearm into a business that prohibits the carrying of firearms on the premises by policy. However, a business may ask an armed individual to leave the premises, and failure to leave constitutes an act of criminal trespass.
 
2013-07-15 12:27:00 PM

5minutes: Here's a video of people not getting hurt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v7RXJpLqtpY


By your logic, "riots" break out at nearly every professional sporting event ever.
 
2013-07-15 12:27:34 PM

Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband


You know that article is total farking bullshiat right?  Do some research before you believe everything on the interwebs
 
2013-07-15 12:27:47 PM

This text is now purple: Latinwolf: Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.

That's an interesting strawman, but most of the Zimmerman supporters here take the position that he was innocent of the charges, as opposed to merely acquitted (which is a factual, if not legal, distinction).

In the same trial, however, there was both forensic and eyewitness testimony that Martin did commit a crime.


And there's the strawman the Zimmerman supporters keep using.
 
2013-07-15 12:28:31 PM

bulldg4life: TheSup3rN0va: Did you see the testimony from his trainer, who said Zim would be lucky to be able to fight his way out of a wet paper sack?

Being a bad fighter or lacking fighting prowess doesn't indicate temperament, does it?


So you're saying an incomplete argument doesn't hold any water?

Now go back and read what you said, and compare that to sourced articles (or, since you're a lazy farker, read what  justtray posted up there^), and you'll realize that it's a lot like saying "That guy got arrested for reckless driving once, clearly he's out street racing every weekend and running over children"
 
2013-07-15 12:28:32 PM

Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: Abuse Liability: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Do you still really believe the investigation was inadequate?  Even after they reopened the case and found no new evidence.  I mean, I'll grant you some of the forensics was botched, but that's hardly the primary investigators fault.  For the most part, it really helped Martin's case.  They couldn't find DNA or fingerprints of his anywhere.  Almost as if he wasn't even there that night.

Was Martin's hands bagged?

I just admitted the forensics were screwed up. I hardly think that was out of malice, but rather simple incompetence.  That's also not something you can go back and fix, so I don't see why they felt they had to charge Zimmerman in the first place.

I don't think the investigation was maliciously tanked. I have no evidence of that.

I think it certainly hurt the investigation (which was my point). It could have helped or hurt Zimmerman. That's why I attributed the outcome of the case partially to the inadequate investigation.

I'm not wrong in this.


Yep, and I never said you were wrong.  You are in fact, correct.  The investigation was lousy, but my argument was that the lead detective was thorough (with what little he had).  I believe there wasn't enough evidence to bring this to trial in the first place.
 
2013-07-15 12:29:20 PM

ShadowKamui: Aarontology: I'll bet Fox News is devastated they didn't get the race riots they wanted.

Sharpton is giving them more than enough fodder


Yes, and he needs to STFU
 
2013-07-15 12:30:22 PM

someonelse: Rueened: someonelse: Rueened: It was more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming.

Demonstrably untrue, and everything you say from here on out should be distrusted.

Please proceed.

For the record, you are claiming that the below pics are "more like about 5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog than the 'million' they were claiming." Even if the "million" estimates were way high and exaggerated, you are still laughably, demonstrably wrong. Although, I suppose we could ask people to look at the pictures and answer the question: Do these look more like "millions" or "5 aging hippies and a scruffy dog." You know, to be scientific about it.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x319]

[i.huffpost.com image 570x563]

[img.dailymail.co.uk image 468x253]

[i.huffpost.com image 570x887]


Nice Photoshop.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/religion-society/scientologi st s-photoshop-pictures-portland-event-show-huge-turnout
 
2013-07-15 12:31:41 PM

Latinwolf: This text is now purple: Latinwolf: Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.

That's an interesting strawman, but most of the Zimmerman supporters here take the position that he was innocent of the charges, as opposed to merely acquitted (which is a factual, if not legal, distinction).

In the same trial, however, there was both forensic and eyewitness testimony that Martin did commit a crime.

And there's the strawman the Zimmerman supporters keep using.


You lost. Go home.
 
2013-07-15 12:33:34 PM

bulldg4life: TheSup3rN0va: Did you see the testimony from his trainer, who said Zim would be lucky to be able to fight his way out of a wet paper sack?

Being a bad fighter or lacking fighting prowess doesn't indicate temperament, does it?


Thank god for that or we would have never had the tough man competitions
 
2013-07-15 12:33:48 PM

TheSup3rN0va: "That guy got arrested for reckless driving once, clearly he's out street racing every weekend and running over children"


I wouldn't be all that surprised if he was accused of street racing if he had a past arrest for reckless driving.

The original line of posts that started this was judging Martin on his comments and extrapolating what his interaction would have been (indicating it wouldn't have been polite).
 
2013-07-15 12:34:14 PM

redmid17: Bontesla: redmid17: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

The investigation was so inadequate that the 2nd investigation including federal authorities and a new prosecutor found nothing new? Where they more or less lied in the affidavit of probable cause? Where the defense was denied information during the discovery phase by the state attorney's office?

The original investigation was inadequate. We're talking about the preservation of forensic evidence, toxicology of the suspect, and so on. The second review was merely a reexamination of the previously collected evidence and a few additional interviews. The first investigation was problematic.

What would the toxicology report have shown that would have changed the outcome of the trial? Even if Martin was under the influence of drugs that affected the jury, Zim already walked.

Preserving the evidence would and should have been done in a better manner, but the lack of good forensic evidence hurt Zimmerman more than it helped him.


Toxicology reports should have been conducted as part of the investigation. Why would additional information be bad? This is a standard package.

I agree that the lack of evidence was certainly helpful to Zimmerman. I'd hope that outcome of the case wouldn't have changed based on proper evidence collecting but we'll never know.

That was my point.
 
2013-07-15 12:36:35 PM
Did anyone see Nancy Grace say "farking coon" on live tv.  Why is this biatch still on the air?
 
2013-07-15 12:37:15 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I'm sure this won't set a terrible precedent or anything...

http://www.nydailynews.com/man-shoots-teen-loud-music-article-1.1209 34 5

Oopsie ... Way to go, Floriduh.   You've earned it. The ridicule, I mean.

In a way, this is useful. It's a nice test case of what America would be if Republicans had their way everywhere. I won't even hazard a guess as to what Floriduh's next move is. Probably something about abortion. Because they value LIFE.


Since a shooting was involved, there will always be some gun nut Farker white knighting it.
 
2013-07-15 12:37:43 PM

Barbecue Bob: Magorn: Elegy: Magorn: soupafi: I_C_Weener: What if Trayvon were white?
What if Zimmerman were a black Hispanic?

Zimmerman would face captial murder charges

In FL,  this black woman got twenty years for shooting a <i> Ceiling</i> WHILE she was being attacked by her husband

Why do I have you farkied as a lawyer? That can't be right, a lawyer would be better acquainted with legal facts before opening his or her mouth.

There are additional facts in that case, but the point I was making, a correct one, was that the woman fired a gun into an inanimate object, and still got a 20 year minimum sentence.  That's insane to me, especially in a state that seems to be ENCOURAGING people to resort to violence by passing a SYG law.   I understand subtlety is a difficult concept for you but....

sigh... this has been covered a bunch.

The girl discharged a firearm in a populated dwelling with no intended target. Dumb biatch.

SYG laws do not include warning shots. Even the police cannot legally fire warning shots.
Just ask anyone who's familiar with firearms when is it ok to fire a gaddam warning shot?
I'll give you a hint... It's never farking ok to fire a farking warning shot.


Unless you are the Vice President's wife.
 
2013-07-15 12:38:05 PM

Latinwolf: This text is now purple: Latinwolf: Funny how people who normally say "innocent until proven guilty" are quick to keep labeling Trayvon Martin as a criminal who deserved to die when there's never been any proof he was up to no good that night.

That's an interesting strawman, but most of the Zimmerman supporters here take the position that he was innocent of the charges, as opposed to merely acquitted (which is a factual, if not legal, distinction).

In the same trial, however, there was both forensic and eyewitness testimony that Martin did commit a crime.

And there's the strawman the Zimmerman supporters keep using.


Actually yes there were witness that saw somebody getting the crap beat out of them screaming for help.  Considering all the other evidence that person could only have been Zimmerman.

This was a normal self-defense case and the state completely failed to prove that Zimm physically started the fight, brandished his weapon or even used fighting words.
 
2013-07-15 12:39:00 PM

Abuse Liability: Bontesla: AngryDragon: Bontesla: joness0154: AngryDragon: Meanwhile in Chicago...

[i847.photobucket.com image 401x317]

That's the thing that really drives me crazy.  We have children and teenagers (mostly black) getting shot and dying on the streets of Chicago on a nightly basis, yet one unfortunate event in Florida gets everyone's panties in a bunch?

What gives?

The issue wasn't the murder as much as it was the inadequate investigation and the lack of charges brought. We know who killed Martin and nothing much was done.

Two different law enforcement agencies, one local and one federal, found no cause to bring charges.  The State Prosecutor even bypassed a grand jury specifically to get the charges filed.  Ostensibly because she KNEW a grand jury would never send it to trial.

Turns out they were right all along.  This case should never have gone to a trial and the circus surrounding it is a complete travesty.

I think the legal outcome was consistent with the law based on what was presented. The jurors did their job.

With that said - anyone who thinks that the investigation was thorough probably has a poor understanding of how that process works.

There's some evidence that cannot be collected during a secondary investigation and was not preserved or collected during the first.

It really doesn't matter how many subsequent investigations were conducted if the first was inadequate .

That's already been agreed upon.  But the initial reason this was brought to light was because Melissa Harris Perry believed Sanford "swept this investigation under the rug", which was untrue.  Many defense lawyers (including Zimmerman's) found the investigation to be quite thorough, barring the forensic screw up (which I repeat, is not the lead investigators fault, but rather the technician that failed to bag the hands).  All the correct tests were ordered (DNA, firearm prints, forensics on the sweatshirt, etc...), but some of that evidence was beyond salvaging or incorrectly collected (like dusting for prints on the scene before bagging everything and protecting the evidence).  Once again, the officer responsible for leading the investigation can't monitor every single person to make sure they're doing their job correctly.


I never suggested that there was a nefarious reason - merely that the investigation was poorly conducted. We could split hairs and talk about which party is at fault but that's not really the point, is it?
 
2013-07-15 12:39:03 PM

bulldg4life: Zimmerman stated that he was struck from behind with no previous interaction and was taken to the ground.


No he didn't.   Link to the actual statement George Zimmerman gave to the police.

He says Martin appeared out of nowhere and asked if he had a problem, Zimmerman said no, and Martin said "You do now", *THEN* started hitting him.

I'm not sure if you are lying, or just genuinely mistaken.  I sincerely hope it's #2.
 
2013-07-15 12:39:43 PM

Carth: Are you allowed to carry guns in Target? I know some stores post "no gun" signs but I never checked if you're allowed to CCW in Target.


Depends on the state. I know in GA those sighs mean nothing to CCW owners, but the owner of the store can always ask you to leave and have you arrested for trespassing if you refuse.