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(HitFix)   The fifteen most useless sequels of all time. Missing from the list: The last two Matrix films and Star Trek: First Contact   (hitfix.com) divider line 246
    More: Fail, matrix, sequels, Adam Sandler, the weekend, Chris Rock  
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9445 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 14 Jul 2013 at 8:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 09:31:10 AM

Fano: baka-san: Heavy Metal 2000...

(auctally kind liked it,, but anything to do with Carl Macek is to be derided)

(well, except for the english dub of Totoro)

Heavy Metal had decades of material to work with. Couldn't they have done a Druuna movie?


I would love to see that.  I would love to see the reaction from parents/religious groups even more.
 
2013-07-15 09:34:44 AM

Darth_Lukecash: TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: fark YOU SUBBY!  Star Trek: First Contact was a great Trek film!

I'm not kidding, I really liked that movie.  Subby can EABOD.

It was easily the best of the Next Generation cast movies.

It was definitely better than Generations and Star Trek Into Darkness.  God that last one was mediocre.

But then I shouldn't judged. I enjoyed Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull.  Didn't enjoy Temple of Doom.


Star Trek: First Contact did not -- to my knowledge -- drive any of the cast members into alcoholism, nearly destroying their career and life.
 
2013-07-15 10:01:39 AM

BravadoGT: Highlander 2
Predator 2


What is this "Highlander 2" you speak of? You must have dreamed that, because there is no such thing. Highlander ended in such a way that a sequel was pretty much impossible, so even an attempted sequel would have been  insipid, poorly thought out, contradictory, and just plain stupid.  Hell, it likely would have been so bad that even thinking about it would cause fans of the original movie to have a traumatic brain injury, resulting in loss of memory to protect their brains from further damage.
 
2013-07-15 10:04:37 AM

t3knomanser: I quite liked  Lockdown, for example (aka  Escape From NY: In SPACE)


It is called Lockout isn't it? Or is this a different titles between US/UK thing?
 
2013-07-15 10:22:25 AM
First Contact? You mean the best TNG movie there was? Troll harder.
 
2013-07-15 10:26:36 AM
Scary Movie 2 was one of the funniest movies ever.

 I think it had a lot do with the time in my life though.  Busted cable box, endlessly ordered for free on PPV.  Lots of drinking.
 
2013-07-15 10:36:28 AM

The Numbers: How is it that Oceans 12 didn't make the list. Utter pile of crap.


Because Oceans 13 made up the difference.
 
2013-07-15 10:49:22 AM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: The Bond franchise weren't really "sequels" in the strict sense of the word, though. The Bond movies don't really advance the storyline or the character, or wrap up story arcs left unfinished in previous movies. They're all unique separate stories that happen to have the same character in them.

Thats not entirely true. You only live twice, on her majesties secret service, and diamonds are forever, they all follow a story arc. And are something of a trilogy. With bond getting married and blowfeld gunning her down in ohmss. And bond hunting him down in diamonds are forever.

havent seen them in years but the 3 movies work together pretty well if I remember correctly.



I will also add that the whole plot of From Russia with Love is that SPECTRE wants revenge on James Bond for killing Dr. No in the previous movie.

Not to mention that the Daniel Craig movies are very much like traditional sequels with story archs and callbacks to previous movies..
 
2013-07-15 11:04:00 AM
The Major League sequels.

The Revenge of the Nerds sequels.
 
2013-07-15 11:12:13 AM

BravadoGT: Highlander 2
Predator 2

/got nothin'


You take that back Predator 2 was awesome!
 
2013-07-15 11:13:47 AM
Oh and the Donnie Darko sequels, yes there was more then one sucked donkey balls.
 
2013-07-15 11:46:10 AM

blue_2501: The TFA's list seems to be spot on.  Some of these comments are not:

The Matrix Reloaded was a badass movie with some of the best action ever.  (Still has the best car chase scene of any movie.)  Was parts of it kinda corny?  Maybe.  Revolutions was pretty disappointing, especially the further it went along.  (First 30 minutes wasn't bad.)

First Contact?  Now you're just trolling.  Granted, the TNG movies weren't epic, but this was one of the better ones.  (ST6 is still the best one.)

Gremlins 2?  This is just proof that you haven't seen it.  Awesome movie.

Ghostbusters 2?  Was it better than Ghostbusters?  No, but it's hard to reach that high.  It was still a good movie, though.

Tron: Legacy?  Olivia Wilde, cool special effects, great soundtrack, good story, oh, and Olivia Wilde.  Also, the original Tron has not aged well.


Ronin respectfully disagrees with your claim that Matrix Reloaded had the best car chase scene, wants to know the color of the boathouse in Hereford is.
 
2013-07-15 11:53:01 AM

ZeroCorpse: ALL the old Star Trek movies after Star Trek IV were crappy and hokey. Star Trek IV is also hokey, but it at least has a somewhat fun script. Every single Next Generation movie is cheesy as hell. The later OT crew movies were comedies, not scifi.


Well now wait a minute, VI was actually quite good. Yes, it had the comedy of Kirk fighting Kirk and that great dialogue, but you also had a story built sort-of around current events on earth, with the end of the Cold War coming at the same time as the movie.
 
2013-07-15 12:11:19 PM

Darth_Lukecash: TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: fark YOU SUBBY!  Star Trek: First Contact was a great Trek film!

I'm not kidding, I really liked that movie.  Subby can EABOD.

It was easily the best of the Next Generation cast movies.

It was definitely better than Generations and Star Trek Into Darkness.  God that last one was mediocre.

But then I shouldn't judged. I enjoyed Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull.  Didn't enjoy Temple of Doom.


Well Temple of Doom has more bullshiat then TCS, so that's fair. i am not telling people to stop liking what I don;t like, I am saying "If you think the fridge was rediculous, A GUY GETS HIS HEART PULLED OUT OF HIS CHEST AND LOOKS AT IN HORROR FOR A WHILE BEFORE HE DIES in that frickin movie".

/dont get me started on the "fall hundreds of feet land on a raft and go down a mountain scene
//Good lord
///TCS does not have a monopoly on rediculously stupid scenes in that series
 
2013-07-15 12:23:39 PM
Robocop 2 & 3
 
rka
2013-07-15 12:43:16 PM

sunsawed: If a film has several useless sequels then it does have a use.  It's a cash cow.
Whoring out your franchise is unfortunate but part of Hollywood.
Whoring out your franchise to EPIC FAIL, effectively killing it is another.

Case in point:

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 350x500]


Are you dissing possibly the greatest Adrian Zmed movie of all time? OF ALL TIME SIR!
 
2013-07-15 12:46:49 PM

The English Major: /will never understand the hate for slideshows


It's about having to separately load and reload page after page/slide after slide, they're slow as hell...
 
2013-07-15 12:55:20 PM
On some of these they seem to confuse "unnecessary" with "poorly executed". Indiana Jones is a good example, if they had done a GOOD sequel, it would have fit in fine. Instead they trot out that garbage. Not unnecessary, just horribly made. The ones where they substitute the main box office draws are the same way, some are unnecessary, but all are poorly done, and just designed to grab your money without giving you something decent.

US Marshalls wasn't really all that bad, I tend to watch it when it's on cable rotation and I have some spare time. The Whole Ten Yards is OK, nowhere near as fun as the first, but at least another good one to watch when I've got some time to kill.... Since the list is broken, I hope Little Fockers is on there. Meet the Fockers took to long to happen, so it fell kind of flat, but at least it seemed to have a reason to exist.

As for Blues Brothers 2000, blame Disney. They insisted that it couldn't have an 'R' rating and needed a kid, they farked that thing up one side and down the other. This one isn't Aykroyd 's fault, nor is it Goodman's.
 
2013-07-15 01:05:42 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Well Temple of Doom has more bullshiat then TCS, so that's fair. i am not telling people to stop liking what I don;t like, I am saying "If you think the fridge was rediculous, A GUY GETS HIS HEART PULLED OUT OF HIS CHEST AND LOOKS AT IN HORROR FOR A WHILE BEFORE HE DIES in that frickin movie".

/dont get me started on the "fall hundreds of feet land on a raft and go down a mountain scene
//Good lord
///TCS does not have a monopoly on rediculously stupid scenes in that series


I think Roger Ebert said somewhere on his website that the first 3 Indy movies had the advantage in that they came first. I mean if Crystal Skull had come out in 1984 and Temple of Doom in 2008, and cast them accordingly, people would probably look back at CS fondly while people would be biatching non-stop online about The Temple of Doom and the life raft, and the heart ripping, and whatever hollywood kid they got to play Short Round and whatever actress they got to play Willie. Not to mention all the racist stereotypes.
 
2013-07-15 03:01:02 PM
What would be a challenge (and more interesting) would be to come up with a list of sequels that should have been useless but turned out to be not terrible, good, or even better than the original.

Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bad_lieutenant_port_of_call_new_orle an s/
 
2013-07-15 03:44:03 PM

thecpt: He can be harmed, the staircase scene starts with him bleeding and merv says something like "he's just human."


Neo may have technically been harmed, but it is obvious from the first fight with 2.0 Agents, to the flying, to the smacking around 1,000 Smiths and everything that he is nigh on invincible.  He is a Super-Man, omnipotent but not omniscient.  And I think that is INCREDIBLY hard to deal with in a movie (See Man of Steel).

Seeing Super-Men completely annihilate their opponents is only cathartically interesting for a short while before it becomes tedious.  Most movies then try to "raise the stakes" but what they really mean is raise the power-level of the opponent(s) so the fight becomes more equal, like before.

While this plan of action sounds logical it actually creates HUGE dissonance in the audience.  It subconsciously undoes the whole heros journey and invalidates the actual "superness" of the Super-Man.  I mean, if the bad guys can keep churning out higher and higher level enemies, does it really matter if the protagonist gets more powerful?  Does that mean everything that's happened before a waste of time?  Are YOU wasting your time watching it?  (also see: bad RPGs)

Once Neo unlocked the full power of the One, his new challenges should have been more mental and less physical.  There are nearly no stakes at the physical level and if you try to make it "equal" you blow out all the calibration.  A movie with a Super-Man is NOT EASY.  Attempting to make Matrix 2 and 3 as a continuation of Neo ascending into power was the most straightforward choice, but also the riskiest and ultimately fatal.
 
2013-07-15 03:47:51 PM
I think we need more Legally Blonde.
 
2013-07-15 03:56:24 PM

mechgreg: Jim from Saint Paul: Well Temple of Doom has more bullshiat then TCS, so that's fair. i am not telling people to stop liking what I don;t like, I am saying "If you think the fridge was rediculous, A GUY GETS HIS HEART PULLED OUT OF HIS CHEST AND LOOKS AT IN HORROR FOR A WHILE BEFORE HE DIES in that frickin movie".

/dont get me started on the "fall hundreds of feet land on a raft and go down a mountain scene
//Good lord
///TCS does not have a monopoly on rediculously stupid scenes in that series

I think Roger Ebert said somewhere on his website that the first 3 Indy movies had the advantage in that they came first. I mean if Crystal Skull had come out in 1984 and Temple of Doom in 2008, and cast them accordingly, people would probably look back at CS fondly while people would be biatching non-stop online about The Temple of Doom and the life raft, and the heart ripping, and whatever hollywood kid they got to play Short Round and whatever actress they got to play Willie. Not to mention all the racist stereotypes.


I completely agree with you, and Ebert, more or less.

You really can't go home again.  Doing a sequel 20 years later and trying to recapture the original feel is impossible.  People want more of what they love, but even if you make a carbon copy you and the world you've lived in have changed, so the movie isn't the same.

That said, TCS had some egregious Lucas-isms: unnecessary CGI shiat, like animals, competiting for visual interest, pointless inclusion of callbacks like Marion, and a general dumbing down.  Fridge logic and silly adventure plot physics are FINE when the movie is GOOD.  TCS just had a weak core, rotted from self consciousness.

People will excuse plot holes and unrealistic things, as long as the movie's core and spirit are intact and its a good film.  Excessively realistic movies with accurate Newtonian physics can be interesting, but you can create even more interesting things by subtly breaking them!  The audience will forgive you if you make a good movie.
 
2013-07-15 04:00:40 PM

Esc7: A GUY GETS HIS HEART PULLED OUT OF HIS CHEST AND LOOKS AT IN HORROR FOR A WHILE BEFORE HE DIES in that frickin movie".


There was that pathologist in the Zimmerman trial just a couple of days ago who testified that if stood up right now and ripped out your heart, you would live and think for at least another 10 seconds. It was totally badass and, hey, look who walked.
 
2013-07-15 04:11:29 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
Ugh
 
2013-07-15 04:15:05 PM

Esc7: mechgreg: Jim from Saint Paul: Well Temple of Doom has more bullshiat then TCS, so that's fair. i am not telling people to stop liking what I don;t like, I am saying "If you think the fridge was rediculous, A GUY GETS HIS HEART PULLED OUT OF HIS CHEST AND LOOKS AT IN HORROR FOR A WHILE BEFORE HE DIES in that frickin movie".

/dont get me started on the "fall hundreds of feet land on a raft and go down a mountain scene
//Good lord
///TCS does not have a monopoly on rediculously stupid scenes in that series

I think Roger Ebert said somewhere on his website that the first 3 Indy movies had the advantage in that they came first. I mean if Crystal Skull had come out in 1984 and Temple of Doom in 2008, and cast them accordingly, people would probably look back at CS fondly while people would be biatching non-stop online about The Temple of Doom and the life raft, and the heart ripping, and whatever hollywood kid they got to play Short Round and whatever actress they got to play Willie. Not to mention all the racist stereotypes.

I completely agree with you, and Ebert, more or less.

You really can't go home again.  Doing a sequel 20 years later and trying to recapture the original feel is impossible.  People want more of what they love, but even if you make a carbon copy you and the world you've lived in have changed, so the movie isn't the same.

That said, TCS had some egregious Lucas-isms: unnecessary CGI shiat, like animals, competiting for visual interest, pointless inclusion of callbacks like Marion, and a general dumbing down.  Fridge logic and silly adventure plot physics are FINE when the movie is GOOD.  TCS just had a weak core, rotted from self consciousness.

People will excuse plot holes and unrealistic things, as long as the movie's core and spirit are intact and its a good film.  Excessively realistic movies with accurate Newtonian physics can be interesting, but you can create even more interesting things by subtly breaking them!  The audience will forgiv ...


It wasn't even the presence of the CGI, but just bad/obvious CGI in several places that got me.  I cant' remember the exact scene, but it was one where they were fighting bad guys while driving Jeeps or riding horses or something and the whole thing just looked incredibly fake.  This day in age if you're going to do CGI, it has to look good enough that it could pass for having actually been filmed that way.  CGI that looks so fake as to be distracting is just not acceptable in a big budget major studio release.
 
2013-07-15 04:18:56 PM
To subby:

cache.ohinternet.com

The Matrix sequels I can dig but "First Contact"? Really?  Were you on a meth binge when you saw "First Contact"?

Now, had you said "Generations", I can see that.
 
2013-07-15 04:26:56 PM

Esc7: thecpt: He can be harmed, the staircase scene starts with him bleeding and merv says something like "he's just human."

Neo may have technically been harmed, but it is obvious from the first fight with 2.0 Agents, to the flying, to the smacking around 1,000 Smiths and everything that he is nigh on invincible.  He is a Super-Man, omnipotent but not omniscient.  And I think that is INCREDIBLY hard to deal with in a movie (See Man of Steel).

Seeing Super-Men completely annihilate their opponents is only cathartically interesting for a short while before it becomes tedious.  Most movies then try to "raise the stakes" but what they really mean is raise the power-level of the opponent(s) so the fight becomes more equal, like before.

While this plan of action sounds logical it actually creates HUGE dissonance in the audience.  It subconsciously undoes the whole heros journey and invalidates the actual "superness" of the Super-Man.  I mean, if the bad guys can keep churning out higher and higher level enemies, does it really matter if the protagonist gets more powerful?  Does that mean everything that's happened before a waste of time?  Are YOU wasting your time watching it?  (also see: bad RPGs)

Once Neo unlocked the full power of the One, his new challenges should have been more mental and less physical.  There are nearly no stakes at the physical level and if you try to make it "equal" you blow out all the calibration.  A movie with a Super-Man is NOT EASY.  Attempting to make Matrix 2 and 3 as a continuation of Neo ascending into power was the most straightforward choice, but also the riskiest and ultimately fatal.


He loses to the 1000 smiths though. I actually hate superman (for some reason liked mos though) and I can see where you could draw deep comparisons but I still thought of him as mortal and in peril. After all, he is only the one in the matrix. There was an assassination attempt on him outside the matrix.

But why can't a character's journey be that the rug is pulled out from under him? He isn't enough to win the fight, he has powers outside the matrix, and a bulk of the action involved the mortal characters (trinity and Morpheus).
 
2013-07-15 04:28:00 PM

blue_2501: First Contact?  Now you're just trolling.  Granted, the TNG movies weren't epic, but this was one of the better ones.  (ST6 is still the best one.)


This; ST6 was a helluva way for the cast of the original to go out.
 
2013-07-15 04:28:57 PM

ZeroCorpse: ALL the old Star Trek movies after Star Trek IV were crappy and hokey. Star Trek IV is also hokey, but it at least has a somewhat fun script. Every single Next Generation movie is cheesy as hell. The later OT crew movies were comedies, not scifi.

People who complain about the Trek reboot need to be reminded of the action-comedy travesties that were the last five pre-reboot Trek films.


I gotta disagree with you on ST6 and First Contact.  The others?  Yeah, they weren't that great.
 
2013-07-15 04:32:16 PM

Callous: Robocop 2 & 3


2 wasn't that bad considering Frank Miller had a hand in it.

3? Yeah, that wasn't even B-movie worthy.
 
2013-07-15 04:45:33 PM
Also,
In my admiration for reloaded please add orgasm cake and persephone's cleavage.

That's top notch cinema right there
 
2013-07-15 04:45:56 PM

thecpt: He loses to the 1000 smiths though. I actually hate superman (for some reason liked mos though) and I can see where you could draw deep comparisons but I still thought of him as mortal and in peril. After all, he is only the one in the matrix. There was an assassination attempt on him outside the matrix.

But why can't a character's journey be that the rug is pulled out from under him? He isn't enough to win the fight, he has powers outside the matrix, and a bulk of the action involved the mortal characters (trinity and Morpheus).


You can't invalidate Neo's power after making such a big deal about it.  That kind of ping-ponging about what is really important in the narrative is confusing.  It shiats over Neo efforts in the first movie, the movie we liked enough to go see a sequel for!

And if the bulk of action involves the mortal characters, why aren't THEY the protagonists   Instead the movie stubbornly focuses on Neo.  Neo is the one who is trying to enter The Source, while all the noise and fury about a machine invasion is pushed into the third movie.

And in order to enter The Source, they need the Keymaker, who Neo LITERALLY PLUCKS out of thin air during a fight.  All that other crap, the amazing battle of the middle of the movie loses so much importance when the protagonist just grabs the guy and takes him to where he needs to go.  Why are the other characters even THERE???  They're just getting in the way of things being targets of opportunity.

The choices made to construct such a plot are the problem.  The only thing I liked about the second and third matrix movies was the fight between Neo and Bane.  It is such a clumsy gritty contrast to the ballet of the in-Matrix fights.  That was so interesting to invert the power structure and show Neo weak.

And thinking about Revolutions reminds me about the greatest weakness throughout all three:  The stupid love story.  Neo and Trinity have no chemistry together at all, and there doesn't seem to be ANY reason either one loves each other.  Maybe if there was better writing or better chemistry this would have been fixed but as it stands I just roll my eyes when the love plots come out.  Unfortunately they're always at a climatic part of the movie.

Listen, I enjoyed watching the Matrix: Reloaded, but I can't defend it as a good movie.  It could really have been better.  They filmed that car chase 3 miles from where i'm sitting, and I loved watching every second of it.  It's the rest of the movie that sucks.
 
2013-07-15 05:16:28 PM

Esc7: thecpt: He can be harmed, the staircase scene starts with him bleeding and merv says something like "he's just human."

Neo may have technically been harmed, but it is obvious from the first fight with 2.0 Agents, to the flying, to the smacking around 1,000 Smiths and everything that he is nigh on invincible.  He is a Super-Man, omnipotent but not omniscient.  And I think that is INCREDIBLY hard to deal with in a movie (See Man of Steel).

Seeing Super-Men completely annihilate their opponents is only cathartically interesting for a short while before it becomes tedious.  Most movies then try to "raise the stakes" but what they really mean is raise the power-level of the opponent(s) so the fight becomes more equal, like before.

While this plan of action sounds logical it actually creates HUGE dissonance in the audience.  It subconsciously undoes the whole heros journey and invalidates the actual "superness" of the Super-Man.  I mean, if the bad guys can keep churning out higher and higher level enemies, does it really matter if the protagonist gets more powerful?  Does that mean everything that's happened before a waste of time?  Are YOU wasting your time watching it?  (also see: bad RPGs)

Once Neo unlocked the full power of the One, his new challenges should have been more mental and less physical.  There are nearly no stakes at the physical level and if you try to make it "equal" you blow out all the calibration.  A movie with a Super-Man is NOT EASY.  Attempting to make Matrix 2 and 3 as a continuation of Neo ascending into power was the most straightforward choice, but also the riskiest and ultimately fatal.


See, that's what it became about though. "Look, Neo is frickin Superman in the Matrix. HOWEVER, he can;t do a damn thing to stop Zion from dying. WAT DO?".

It's the "WAT DO?" they went with that sucked and killed the franchise. Also the fact they made a 5 hour long movie to end the thing. I mean, you have to binge watch the whole thing to have that feeling of continuity

/also by "killing the franchise" I mean stopping any future sequels and such
//the money made 300 million dollars, I am sure executives at WB feel like it's a faliure as they swim in their money bins
 
2013-07-15 05:26:23 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Esc7: thecpt: He can be harmed, the staircase scene starts with him bleeding and merv says something like "he's just human."

Neo may have technically been harmed, but it is obvious from the first fight with 2.0 Agents, to the flying, to the smacking around 1,000 Smiths and everything that he is nigh on invincible.  He is a Super-Man, omnipotent but not omniscient.  And I think that is INCREDIBLY hard to deal with in a movie (See Man of Steel).

Seeing Super-Men completely annihilate their opponents is only cathartically interesting for a short while before it becomes tedious.  Most movies then try to "raise the stakes" but what they really mean is raise the power-level of the opponent(s) so the fight becomes more equal, like before.

While this plan of action sounds logical it actually creates HUGE dissonance in the audience.  It subconsciously undoes the whole heros journey and invalidates the actual "superness" of the Super-Man.  I mean, if the bad guys can keep churning out higher and higher level enemies, does it really matter if the protagonist gets more powerful?  Does that mean everything that's happened before a waste of time?  Are YOU wasting your time watching it?  (also see: bad RPGs)

Once Neo unlocked the full power of the One, his new challenges should have been more mental and less physical.  There are nearly no stakes at the physical level and if you try to make it "equal" you blow out all the calibration.  A movie with a Super-Man is NOT EASY.  Attempting to make Matrix 2 and 3 as a continuation of Neo ascending into power was the most straightforward choice, but also the riskiest and ultimately fatal.

See, that's what it became about though. "Look, Neo is frickin Superman in the Matrix. HOWEVER, he can;t do a damn thing to stop Zion from dying. WAT DO?".

It's the "WAT DO?" they went with that sucked and killed the franchise. Also the fact they made a 5 hour long movie to end the thing. I mean, you have to binge watch the whole thing to have that ...


I LIKED the premise of super neo being confronted with impossible situation. I dislike his situation brokered a truce. one easily broken by the machines at any point in the future.
 
2013-07-15 05:50:24 PM

Esc7: Listen, I enjoyed watching the Matrix: Reloaded, but I can't defend it as a good movie. It could really have been better. They filmed that car chase 3 miles from where i'm sitting, and I loved watching every second of it. It's the rest of the movie that sucks.


You mean 30 minutes of meaningless French smarm and cupcake robogasms isn't your thing?

/Though Monica Belucci in a translucent f*ck-skirt wasn't so bad.
 
2013-07-15 05:52:54 PM
'Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull'

What's that, some low-budget fanfic, because I know they only made 3 Indiana Jones movies. If another film had been made, I'd have known about it.
 
2013-07-15 06:15:06 PM
thatguyoverthere70:

What would be a challenge (and more interesting) would be to come up with a list of sequels that should have been useless but turned out to be not terrible, good, or even better than the original.

There are a number of good sequels of course, but good sequels that by all accounts should have sucked?  Hmm...

An American Tail: Feivel Goes West - It's a running joke that sequels to Disney movies are useless and unnecessary, but sequels to Don Bluth movies, which have never actually involved Don Bluth, are even worse.  Cases in point: The Secret of NIMH 2 and the umpteen zillion continuations of The Land before Time.  The one exception: Feivel Goes West.  Not only does the movie present an entertaining new chapter in the story of Feivel and his family, it wraps that chapter around a subtle history lesson of the U.S.A's growth and expansion (even if the lessons are perhaps a bit out of order, since the push westward mostly happened before the Statue of Liberty's unveiling).  Granted, it's still not as good as the first movie, and it gets downright silly in places, but hey, John Cleese as a shifty real estate feline.  What more can you ask for?

Every Fast and Furious sequel after Tokyo Drift.  The first movie delivered what it promised, fast cars and eye candy, and very little else.  The next two sequels continued the trend, with typical diminishing returns, and nobody expected otherwise from the fourth.  But then, Fast and Furious got good.  Fast Five got even better!  Now we're six movies out and the franchise continues to surprise and impress.

Marvel's The Avengers - Okay, okay, put down the guns and turn off the nerd rage.  I'm not actually saying anybody expected The Avengers to suck.  However, after Edward Norton was ousted because of producer meddling, it was easy to believe the Hulk would be the least interesting part of the ensemble.  Instead, we're all now saying, "Edward who?"  I almost hate to admit someone did a better job with a character than Norton, a man very obviously passionate about his work, but Mark Ruffalo really Hulk-smashed it out of the park.
 
2013-07-15 06:15:30 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Jim from Saint Paul: Esc7: thecpt: He can be harmed, the staircase scene starts with him bleeding and merv says something like "he's just human."

Neo may have technically been harmed, but it is obvious from the first fight with 2.0 Agents, to the flying, to the smacking around 1,000 Smiths and everything that he is nigh on invincible.  He is a Super-Man, omnipotent but not omniscient.  And I think that is INCREDIBLY hard to deal with in a movie (See Man of Steel).

Seeing Super-Men completely annihilate their opponents is only cathartically interesting for a short while before it becomes tedious.  Most movies then try to "raise the stakes" but what they really mean is raise the power-level of the opponent(s) so the fight becomes more equal, like before.

While this plan of action sounds logical it actually creates HUGE dissonance in the audience.  It subconsciously undoes the whole heros journey and invalidates the actual "superness" of the Super-Man.  I mean, if the bad guys can keep churning out higher and higher level enemies, does it really matter if the protagonist gets more powerful?  Does that mean everything that's happened before a waste of time?  Are YOU wasting your time watching it?  (also see: bad RPGs)

Once Neo unlocked the full power of the One, his new challenges should have been more mental and less physical.  There are nearly no stakes at the physical level and if you try to make it "equal" you blow out all the calibration.  A movie with a Super-Man is NOT EASY.  Attempting to make Matrix 2 and 3 as a continuation of Neo ascending into power was the most straightforward choice, but also the riskiest and ultimately fatal.

See, that's what it became about though. "Look, Neo is frickin Superman in the Matrix. HOWEVER, he can;t do a damn thing to stop Zion from dying. WAT DO?".

It's the "WAT DO?" they went with that sucked and killed the franchise. Also the fact they made a 5 hour long movie to end the thing. I mean, you have to binge watch the whole thing to have that ...

I LIKED the premise of super neo being confronted with impossible situation. I dislike his situation brokered a truce. one easily broken by the machines at any point in the future.


And that's why I defend reloaded, but never the third one. I just hate when people say they both sucked
 
2013-07-15 07:24:46 PM

SkunkWorx: An American Tail: Feivel Goes West - It's a running joke that sequels to Disney movies are useless and unnecessary, but sequels to Don Bluth movies, which have never actually involved Don Bluth, are even worse.  Cases in point: The Secret of NIMH 2 and the umpteen zillion continuations of The Land before Time.  The one exception: Feivel Goes West.  Not only does the movie present an entertaining new chapter in the story of Feivel and his family, it wraps that chapter around a subtle history lesson of the U.S.A's growth and expansion (even if the lessons are perhaps a bit out of order, since the push westward mostly happened before the Statue of Liberty's unveiling).  Granted, it's still not as good as the first movie, and it gets downright silly in places, but hey, John Cleese as a shifty real estate feline.  What more can you ask for?


Was one of my favorite movies in my youth, actually... the last time I would've seen it, I'd have had zero idea who John Cleese was. Interesting tidbit.
 
2013-07-15 10:09:40 PM

Darth_Lukecash: BravadoGT: Highlander 2
Predator 2

/got nothin'

There was no Highlander 2.  I've never heard of it.  Seen it. When I google it, the screen goes black, the room darkens and I hear a primal scream of terror and wake up on the floor in a fetal position, sobbing.

There is no Highlander 2.


I've paid good money to a hypnotherapist to be able to agree with you.

/Silly idea
//It would be like a sequel to "Eddy and the Cruisers"
 
2013-07-15 11:44:03 PM

karmachameleon: karmachameleon: Unnecessary and bad:

Let's try that again:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 219x320]


Three words - "teenaged Linda Blair". That's all I needed to know.
/Rick James knew it too
 
2013-07-16 03:49:41 AM

thecpt: It's a movie I really like, and if you talk about it seriously as you've done then I'll try to help with my answers.


Thanks, I always appreciate a good discussion about movies.  Thanks for your answers, but I still find them kind of "deus ex machina" compared to the original movie.  For example, in "The Matrix" we're told that everyone's mind is hooked up to a virtual world, and if your body in the virtual world dies, your body in the real world also dies "because the body cannot live without the mind".  Very sci-fi, but that all makes sense.  Compare that to, say, the explanation of how Neo "freed" Agent Smith.  Funny, upon watching the first movie I'd be strongly tempted to use the word "destroyed", not "freed".  ;-)

I just found the first movie to make a lot of logical sense, step-by-step, even given all the new age mysticism that surrounded the proceedings.  In the next two movies, I thought that the new age mysticism became the proceedings and really kind of overwhelmed them.  They went away from the sci-fi world of the first movie and into deep philosophical territory where basically any answer could become valid, because now it didn't have to make logical sense any more.

But different opinions are what make the world go around.  Like I said I only saw the next two movies one time, when they opened in theaters, and since it's been so long I'm not in a good place to analyze them.  I remember walking away from Reloaded thinking to myself, "Since that was ostensibly the first part of a two part movie, I sure hope they explain some of what I just saw in the next movie."  Unfortunately I thought Revolutions just made it more confusing.  I'm glad you like these movies, well Reloaded anyway.  But the logic used in them just didn't make the same kind of sense as in the first movie, and I guess that would be my main complaint.  I admit you have me a bit curious to watch them again now, just to see if my opinion might change on a second, well-removed-from-the-time-period second viewing.
 
2013-07-16 07:02:16 AM

karmachameleon: Compare that to, say, the explanation of how Neo "freed" Agent Smith. Funny, upon watching the first movie I'd be strongly tempted to use the word "destroyed", not "freed". ;-)


He wasn't "destroyed" he was moved to the Recycle Bin.  He was supposed to stay there until it was emptied, but he escaped ro wreak havoc on the system, and began overwriting other files on the system with copies of himself.  He has a virus, the very label he so scornfully applied to humanity in the first film.
 
2013-07-16 09:46:25 AM

Wireless Joe: Hi guyz, what's going on in this thread?

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 236x214]


Yeah, but to be fair, he was pretty damn cool.
 
2013-07-16 09:46:57 AM
Empire Strikes Back - You go from believable gritty and dirty space ships and speeders that aren't always fully operational to super clean highly polished environments that all seem to look like they just rolled off the factory floor.  Even Vader looked newer.
 
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