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(Brooklyn Heights Blog)   NY Daily News does a piece about bartenders who pack baseball bats aka the "guns of the Stone Age" behind their bars. One bar owner, who played narc Gaetano Caiozzo on Boardwalk Empire, strongly disagrees   (brooklynheightsblog.com) divider line 136
    More: Interesting, New York Daily, New York, Great Idea, Atlantic Avenue  
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9367 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 8:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 12:04:34 AM
Pfft. All you really need is a pool cue.
 
2013-07-15 12:04:54 AM

redmid17: teenage mutant ninja rapist: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

Put slugs in it

Still have issues with recoil and accuracy. There's a reason why most criminals and all policemen use handguns.


Lightweight and able to be concealed?

Given the option, most would prefer a light caliber rifle or a shotgun. Look at the proliferation of the "patrol rifle".
 
2013-07-15 12:08:06 AM

Thingster: redmid17: teenage mutant ninja rapist: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

Put slugs in it

Still have issues with recoil and accuracy. There's a reason why most criminals and all policemen use handguns.

Lightweight and able to be concealed?

Given the option, most would prefer a light caliber rifle or a shotgun. Look at the proliferation of the "patrol rifle".


SBS over a handgun is a ton more recoil, and the power/weight ratio is going to affect the accuracy too. A patrol rifle is far different from the lupara someone posted earlier in the thread. If you want a two-handed SBR, by all means I will not disagree. I'm just saying that a double-barrel SBS is going to have a lot of issues I'd rather not deal with in comparison to a handgun.
 
2013-07-15 12:20:10 AM
It sounds like most of you all are missing the point entirely about keeping a weapon in the bar.  Keeping a weapon at the bar inevitably gives the prosecution/plaintiff a weapon to use against you in court.  Even if not involved, it can still affect the outcome of a court case.  For example, the bar clearly had no regard for the safety of others as they had a baseball bat behind the bar.  If you'll note the lack of a baseball field, and lack of a pitcher.  That bat isn't there to play baseball, it's there to hit someone with.  That's why my client wants a million dollars because they picked a fight with the bouncer and lost, because the bar has established by possession of a baseball bat that it has no qualms about injuring customers.  Therefore it was improbable that the bartender acted only with enough force to overcome the threat.
 
2013-07-15 12:23:12 AM

Hrist: It sounds like most of you all are missing the point entirely about keeping a weapon in the bar.  Keeping a weapon at the bar inevitably gives the prosecution/plaintiff a weapon to use against you in court.  Even if not involved, it can still affect the outcome of a court case.  For example, the bar clearly had no regard for the safety of others as they had a baseball bat behind the bar.  If you'll note the lack of a baseball field, and lack of a pitcher.  That bat isn't there to play baseball, it's there to hit someone with.  That's why my client wants a million dollars because they picked a fight with the bouncer and lost, because the bar has established by possession of a baseball bat that it has no qualms about injuring customers.  Therefore it was improbable that the bartender acted only with enough force to overcome the threat.


Um that doesn't really matter. There is a reason why business owners are able to keep deadly weapons like guns and knives at their place of business. Even Chicago and NYC allow that.
 
2013-07-15 12:36:33 AM

Psycoholic_Slag: Intelligent_Donkey: Bung_Howdy: poot_rootbeer: Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes).

How many bags of Skittles were you carrying?

believe it or not, pre- skittles


/old fark

There was a time that skittles didn't exist? Truly those were the dark times.

PreSkittles, truly this sh*t was the Devils Dingleberries:

[joycefied.files.wordpress.com image 418x366]


They come in shapes now, and some taste like aniseed.
 
2013-07-15 12:40:20 AM

redmid17: Um that doesn't really matter. There is a reason why business owners are able to keep deadly weapons like guns and knives at their place of business. Even Chicago and NYC allow that.


To defend themselves, not to assault people with. The only reason to have a bat is to assault someone.
 
2013-07-15 12:54:21 AM

strathmeyer: redmid17: Um that doesn't really matter. There is a reason why business owners are able to keep deadly weapons like guns and knives at their place of business. Even Chicago and NYC allow that.

To defend themselves, not to assault people with. The only reason to have a bat is to assault someone.


Don't let the secret out:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/041113-651602-chicago-merch an t-defends-self-with-baseball-bat.htm?p=full

I'll stop playing softball then too, stick with soccer and volleyball. No reason to own a bat for sports.
 
2013-07-15 12:59:53 AM

Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes). Hard charging prosecutor only dropped it at the last second before going to trial. What a dick- knew full well I was coming back from a game...

/notices none of my csb stories are really cool- mostly frustrating


So clicked the profile due to the ucsb. Have to ask though...

http://www.vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htm#vhemt

What. The. Fark?
 
2013-07-15 01:02:03 AM

SearchN: Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes). Hard charging prosecutor only dropped it at the last second before going to trial. What a dick- knew full well I was coming back from a game...

/notices none of my csb stories are really cool- mostly frustrating

So clicked the profile due to the ucsb. Have to ask though...

http://www.vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htm#vhemt

What. The. Fark?


the earth will be around a long time, me? not so much :-)
 
2013-07-15 01:08:14 AM

Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]


What exactly is that? Having experienced a home invasion recently, I would like to learn more about lesser likely lethal (LLL) protection devices.
 
2013-07-15 01:11:16 AM

TippySheraton: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

What exactly is that? Having experienced a home invasion recently, I would like to learn more about lesser likely lethal (LLL) protection devices.


It's a lupara and it is not a LLL option (unless you're factoring into account the orange end of this particular one).

SBS are NFA regulated and you need to apply for and receive a tax stamp to own one.
 
2013-07-15 01:11:33 AM

Bung_Howdy: SearchN: Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes). Hard charging prosecutor only dropped it at the last second before going to trial. What a dick- knew full well I was coming back from a game...

/notices none of my csb stories are really cool- mostly frustrating

So clicked the profile due to the ucsb. Have to ask though...

http://www.vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htm#vhemt

What. The. Fark?

the earth will be around a long time, me? not so much :-)


Listen man, you apparently have the skills to get articles greened. You really need to get that one posted. Think of what an epic thread that could turn into.
 
2013-07-15 01:19:20 AM

strathmeyer: redmid17: Um that doesn't really matter. There is a reason why business owners are able to keep deadly weapons like guns and knives at their place of business. Even Chicago and NYC allow that.

To defend themselves, not to assault people with. The only reason to have a bat is to assault someone.


That makes no sense whatsoever.
 
2013-07-15 01:20:30 AM
This text is now purple

If you're back swinging a sword, you're doing it wrong. American.

/Too many Star Wars movies.
 
2013-07-15 01:59:44 AM

FrancoFile: Gyrfalcon: Boris S. Wort: The problem with bats...

[i157.photobucket.com image 478x357]

Hocus pocus, I'm an umpire!

Abra-ca-pocus!


Hocus Kazam
 
2013-07-15 03:00:25 AM

Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes). Hard charging prosecutor only dropped it at the last second before going to trial. What a dick- knew full well I was coming back from a game...

/notices none of my csb stories are really cool- mostly frustrating


Sounds like a prosecutor trying to pad their stats. I bet they tried to get you to take a plea to a lesser felony without any jail time.
 
2013-07-15 03:16:44 AM
CSB: I bartended at a club for about a year. The clientele went from fairly decent when I started to... not so awesome. The only reason I stayed on was to help the manager (also my girlfriend) out because she couldn't get anyone else to stay, or she had to fire them for stealing. One night during an event for "lil'scrappy," whoever the fark he is, things went south in a hurry at the end of the night. Barstools were thrown, liquor bottles, beer bottles, pretty much anything that wasn't bolted down went flying. It was a melee. The security was overwhelmed. Sure enough after getting the other bartender down behind the bar and stupidly looking up to check on the other bar, a beer bottle catches me right on the chin.

I knew from previous experience as a bouncer that this sort of thing could happen with this crowd no matter how many bouncers you have. I had made sure to bring along appropriate counter measures for such an occasion. Fortunately, no one got the bright idea to try to come behind the bar. But in that situation, there's a couple hundred people essentially rioting. Up to that point I had second guessed bringing anything behind the bar. Introducing a weapon can escalate things. However, the security already had their hands full, the police were several minutes away. Had the mob decided to overrun the bar to rob us, or just to beat the ish out of us, we would have been at their mercy without one.

I kept myself and the other bartender crouched down until things dissipated. No one other than myself and the other bartender ever knew.
 
2013-07-15 04:19:04 AM

Thingster: redmid17: teenage mutant ninja rapist: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

Put slugs in it

Still have issues with recoil and accuracy. There's a reason why most criminals and all policemen use handguns.

Lightweight and able to be concealed?

Given the option, most would prefer a light caliber rifle or a shotgun. Look at the proliferation of the "patrol rifle".


Handgun for accuracy, assault rifle for room-sweeping. That's why the AK-47 is the terrorist/gangster weapon of choice: Any fool can use it, it has no accuracy to speak of, but incredible reliability (won't jam if you try, shoots when the barrel is filled with dirt), and everywhere but the US the ammo can be had for a couple of chickens the box. The inability to aim the damn thing ensures everyone in the room will catch some lead when its used properly, i.e. spray&pray.

Depends what you want to have happen, really. Do you want to clear the room, or fill it with bodies?
 
2013-07-15 04:25:52 AM

Gyrfalcon: Thingster: redmid17: teenage mutant ninja rapist: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

Put slugs in it

Still have issues with recoil and accuracy. There's a reason why most criminals and all policemen use handguns.

Lightweight and able to be concealed?

Given the option, most would prefer a light caliber rifle or a shotgun. Look at the proliferation of the "patrol rifle".

Handgun for accuracy, assault rifle for room-sweeping. That's why the AK-47 is the terrorist/gangster weapon of choice: Any fool can use it, it has no accuracy to speak of, but incredible reliability (won't jam if you try, shoots when the barrel is filled with dirt), and everywhere but the US the ammo can be had for a couple of chickens the box. The inability to aim the damn thing ensures everyone in the room will catch some lead when its used properly, i.e. spray&pray.

Depends what you want to have happen, really. Do you want to clear the room, or fill it with bodies?


Have you ever fired an ak-47 or an automatic weapon before?
 
2013-07-15 04:28:49 AM
Who the hell was Gaetano Ciaozzo?  Google turns up nothing. What episode(s) was he in?
 
2013-07-15 05:17:12 AM
You have two options for behind-the-bar security.

Option 1: Little girl's aluminum softball bat. Light, short, easy to swing or thrust. You absolutely cannot accidentally kill someone with it, but you can damn sure adjust an attitude or two with it.

Option 2: Go to an electrical supply house and buy 18 inches of 750MCM stranded aluminum wire. Feather light, and serves absolutely no purpose other than breaking bones--including skulls. Plan on killing someone if you ever have to use it.

NEVER use the anal-intruder size MagLite as a weapon if you have a choice. Damage varies from "enraged" to "murdered" and you have very little choice which one occurs.
 
2013-07-15 07:32:52 AM

Treygreen13: Just arguing about ancient weapons because, honestly, how often do we get the opportunity to do that? It's awesome.


Oddly enough, I get to do it quite often, because generally I'm the only person in a room who has actual experience with them.

When I was growing up, a partial list of the assorted ancient weaponry around the house:
blowguns
atlatls
wooden bows
crossbows (including a hand-made medieval reproduction)
boomerangs (not the returning kind)
swords
knives
spears
bolas

That is, of course, in addition to more modern weaponry like guns, from flintlocks all the way up to modern semiautomatics.
 
2013-07-15 07:43:45 AM

Gyrfalcon: Handgun for accuracy, assault rifle for room-sweeping.


This is how you can tell someone has gotten their firearms knowledge from video games.

Hint for you:  Even the loosest assault rifle is more accurate than a handgun for practical use, for a number of reasons.  I will list them below for you:

1. longer sight radius.
2. faster bullets
3. More support (2 hands, plus shoulder, vs. 1 or at most 2 hands)

It's true that you can have tuned target handguns that are more inherently accurate than mass-produced assault rifles, but for practical combat use, for 99.99% of people, the assault rifle is going to be the more accurate choice.

There is a saying that "A pistol is the gun you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have been carrying in the first place".
 
2013-07-15 09:44:16 AM

PainfulItching: 6D cell Maglite flashlight.. Functional behind a dark bar. A baseball bat can be considered a weapon, unless is signed and mounted on the wall as part of the "decor". This is from when I was working in Texas and no weapons were permitted in any establishment that sold alcohol (including convenience stores). A longneck beer bottle could do in a pinch, but give me a 3 or 4 pound, essentially shortened Little League aluminum bat, and I could make that work.


+1. I've lived in several states where carrying a bat in my car would have been an illegally concealed weapon. 2' long flashlight, not so much. I've had *several* encounters that basically ended when I retrieved said maglight.

//worked a lot of nighttime jobs in service and/or retail in my yout
///expected to do the register drop at a bank with no weapons...
 
2013-07-15 09:57:51 AM

wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.


You don't swing.  You jab hard to the throat/nose/mouth/forehead.

/Same with bare-knuckle brawling.
 
2013-07-15 10:00:59 AM
Last twelve inches or more of a broken pool cues weighted end.

Though one of my bartenders at pat o briens waded into a fight with a bottle spray bleach in one hand and a drink mat in the other and immobilized five guys rather quickly.

Racking someone across the face with a bar mat while spraying someone in the face with bleach is a sight to see. He was jackie chan mixed with mcguver
 
2013-07-15 10:30:08 AM

Mentat: gilatrout: albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives

What if they come running at you with a pointed stick?

Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh?  Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!




upload.wikimedia.org
Is the correct answer.
 
2013-07-15 11:26:43 AM

CSM101: FrancoFile: Gyrfalcon: Boris S. Wort: The problem with bats...

[i157.photobucket.com image 478x357]

Hocus pocus, I'm an umpire!

Abra-ca-pocus!

Hocus Kazam


Walla Walla Washington!
 
2013-07-15 12:49:26 PM

dittybopper: Gyrfalcon: Handgun for accuracy, assault rifle for room-sweeping.

This is how you can tell someone has gotten their firearms knowledge from video games.

Hint for you:  Even the loosest assault rifle is more accurate than a handgun for practical use, for a number of reasons.  I will list them below for you:

1. longer sight radius.
2. faster bullets
3. More support (2 hands, plus shoulder, vs. 1 or at most 2 hands)

It's true that you can have tuned target handguns that are more inherently accurate than mass-produced assault rifles, but for practical combat use, for 99.99% of people, the assault rifle is going to be the more accurate choice.

There is a saying that "A pistol is the gun you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have been carrying in the first place".




The new adage is "if you know you're going to a gunfight, send the cops".
For those who don't know, a pistol is all you're allowed. The law has made it troublesome to arm yourself adequately while on the go.

You are right in that pistols will never match any rifle for accuracy, range, or presence. But the practical side of things make pistols the only option while the rule of law is in play.
Beyond that, a man with a shouldered rifle empties the roads like a pissed off jäger headed for Hong Kong.

/I believe brandishing is the most undervalued and stupidly over regulated aspect of gun use. Showing arms stops most trouble before it has a chance to start.
/If Zimmerman had been carrying a carbine, Trayvon would be alive due to knowing this was not a scenario for farking around.
/it may be an opinion based on anecdotal evidence, but I've heard many stories of ccw's and cops getting jumped. Not one of someone with a slung rifle suffering this problem.
 
2013-07-15 01:05:35 PM
FWIW,

The bar I've worked at for well over a decade kept a couple of tools behind the bar for emergencies.  One was the heavy end of a cut down pool cue for "reaching things" and "dusting".  In the office leading into the walk-in, the wrench for changing the beer gas cylinders was rather handy as soon as you would walk in the door.  Further along the bar, as well as in the cooler itself, you would generally find an unused beer tap sitting on a shelf.  That said, I've never seen any of them used for "emergencies", and I hope like hell it never happens.

Both myself and the boss have had pool cues busted over our backs (thankfully the dumb biatch that hit me used the narrow end, still dropped me to my knees), and the boss, myself, and the other manager have taken a couple of punches - but noone else on staff has thankfully gotten into a physical confrontation.  In my opinion, a bartender's place when things go south is to get on the horn with the cops, watch the asses of the rest of the staff without getting involved unless absolutely necessary, and wait for the cavalry/guard the register

/Saw a guy get slashed with a broken beer bottle once - looked liked raw fajita meat.afterwards.
//In Florida, the only guy that can CC in the bar is the owner (and only if he hasn't been drinking).
 
2013-07-15 02:23:09 PM

PainfulItching: 6D cell Maglite flashlight.. Functional behind a dark bar. A baseball bat can be considered a weapon, unless is signed and mounted on the wall as part of the "decor". This is from when I was working in Texas and no weapons were permitted in any establishment that sold alcohol (including convenience stores). A longneck beer bottle could do in a pinch, but give me a 3 or 4 pound, essentially shortened Little League aluminum bat, and I could make that work.


Depends on your state, can only go to a 4-cell in Cali due to people realizing a 6 was a lighty-club (barring cops/etc, but no can have 6's as Joe Civvie.)

That being said, having a weapon you know how to use can be a help in any situation.  I don't care if you are 5'4" if you have some knowledge in how to use a club type weapon in pretty close quarters.  If you don't it's probably a liability if you're 6'5".

For the OMG gimme a tank gun folks please do recall that most of the time bars are crowded, non-huge spaces - any miss from even a small firearm has a fair chance of hosing some poor random dude.  Although I've only known 2 - and yes that's not a representative sample but still - those 2 night bartenders had a headcracker under the bar AND a firearm in a similar location.  The headcrackers were ONLY to be used on jackholes that were hosing up the place/patrons but not lethally - the guns were there for serious "people gonna die if something doesn't change NOW" shiate.  Options were stated to be necessary there, and it makes sense to me.  Not every situation requires someone getting shot in the face, not every situation can be helped by a swift tap upside the head.

/CSB overish, but will say that the one guy I used to talk to the most said that he had forbidden most of his employees to pick up the sawed pool-cue in a sitch he had no matter what as they had no idea what to do with it.  So yeah.  Only him and his day guy were "authorized users."  Both grew up in Jersey in circumstances lending themselves to knowing how to wreck someone's day with stuff like that so fair enough.
 
2013-07-15 04:11:59 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]


A toy gun? Not being snarky, just wondering if this is some less-than-lethal thing I've never heard of, because that looks to me like a plastic toy. The "shells" are plastic fakes, too.
 
2013-07-15 04:27:36 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]


Right, because a short barrel scatter gun in a small tightly packed room is a great idea.

You farking nob.
 
2013-07-15 05:02:56 PM
The headline bothers me:

NY Daily News does a piece about bartenders who pack baseball bats aka the "guns of the Stone Age" behind their bars. One bar owner, who played narc Gaetano Caiozzo on Boardwalk Empire, strongly disagrees

Disagrees that the NY Daily News did a piece about bartenders and baseball bats?
 
2013-07-15 05:47:19 PM

way south: The new adage is "if you know you're going to a gunfight, send the cops".
For those who don't know, a pistol is all you're allowed. The law has made it troublesome to arm yourself adequately while on the go.


Give it a rest.
 
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