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(Brooklyn Heights Blog)   NY Daily News does a piece about bartenders who pack baseball bats aka the "guns of the Stone Age" behind their bars. One bar owner, who played narc Gaetano Caiozzo on Boardwalk Empire, strongly disagrees   (brooklynheightsblog.com) divider line 136
    More: Interesting, New York Daily, New York, Great Idea, Atlantic Avenue  
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9364 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 8:15 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-14 09:37:15 PM
"If one of my bartenders is a 5-foot-4 woman and some guy takes it from her, I've just given someone a weapon. The best defense for a bartender to have is the bar itself. It's a barrier."

Rule one do not have a 5' 4" bartenderess if your clientele tend to need to be keep in line with a baseball bat.
 
2013-07-14 09:46:04 PM

hasty ambush: "If one of my bartenders is a 5-foot-4 woman and some guy takes it from her, I've just given someone a weapon. The best defense for a bartender to have is the bar itself. It's a barrier."

Rule one do not have a 5' 4" bartenderess if your clientele tend to need to be keep in line with a baseball bat.


Rule Two, let's set up completely fake criteria to justify our position.

"If one of my bartenders is a 5-foot-4 woman who is also a deaf quadriplegic with ADD, ah I forget the point that I was trying to make".
 
2013-07-14 09:51:35 PM

smells_like_meat: hasty ambush: "If one of my bartenders is a 5-foot-4 woman and some guy takes it from her, I've just given someone a weapon. The best defense for a bartender to have is the bar itself. It's a barrier."

Rule one do not have a 5' 4" bartenderess if your clientele tend to need to be keep in line with a baseball bat.

Rule Two, let's set up completely fake criteria to justify our position.

"If one of my bartenders is a 5-foot-4 woman who is also a deaf quadriplegic with ADD, ah I forget the point that I was trying to make".


Sounds like it could be the beginning of an incredible specific fetish porn shoot though.
 
2013-07-14 09:52:27 PM

Intelligent_Donkey: Bung_Howdy: poot_rootbeer: Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes).

How many bags of Skittles were you carrying?

believe it or not, pre- skittles


/old fark

There was a time that skittles didn't exist? Truly those were the dark times.


PreSkittles, truly this sh*t was the Devils Dingleberries:

joycefied.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-14 09:53:30 PM

gnosis301: Mentat: albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives

Knives won't reach across a bar.

Which is why you duct tape them to brooms.


Then you're right back to the sword issue.
 
2013-07-14 10:01:29 PM

albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives


What if they come running at you with a pointed stick?
 
2013-07-14 10:03:04 PM
If someone really were going to insist on not having a gun behind the bar, I'd recommend something more along the lines of a cane. Maybe a shillelagh or something like that. Lighter and more maneuverable than a bat: not so good for swinging, but others have pointed out why you wouldn't really want to swing something around in a bar anyway. You won't kill anyone with something like this, but a good hard poke will still farking hurt, possibly enough to get your message across

A broom handle would work in a pinch, but they're not as durable, and a broken broom handle becomes a lot more dangerous (albeit shorter). If the bad guy's safety is your concern, you want something that won't suddenly find itself with a pointy end.
 
2013-07-14 10:03:23 PM

Mentat: gnosis301: Mentat: albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives

Knives won't reach across a bar.

Which is why you duct tape them to brooms.

Then you're right back to the sword issue.


Lead-filled tire thumper, motion arm is shorter and it will knock 'em out
 
2013-07-14 10:05:43 PM
Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.
 
2013-07-14 10:07:39 PM

Gyrfalcon: Boris S. Wort: The problem with bats...

[i157.photobucket.com image 478x357]

Hocus pocus, I'm an umpire!


Abra-ca-pocus!
 
2013-07-14 10:11:54 PM

dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.


Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.
 
2013-07-14 10:15:24 PM

gilatrout: albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives

What if they come running at you with a pointed stick?


Then you need a tiger and a 16-ton weight.
 
2013-07-14 10:17:00 PM

Bslim: staplermofo: FTFA: I've just given someone a weapon.

Has this guy never seen a movie with a bar fight?  Bottles, pool cues and bar stools all the way.  Some guy gets tossed through a hanging light and another into a pinball machine.  Then the barkeep wipes the bar, takes the money the good guy throws on the counter and pours another drink.  Sheesh, everybody knows that.

You forgot the part where the barkeep breaks a bottle over somebody's head.


Isn't the bartender supposed to light a match, drop it onto some spilled liquor, and watch as the flame runs down the bar to ignite the bad guy?
 
2013-07-14 10:18:31 PM
A simple rattan stick works better than anything else you can imagine.  Search "eskrima".

In a pinch PVC pipe works too but it tends to shatter.
 
2013-07-14 10:23:33 PM
When did this suddenly become news?  Most bars have bats or nightsticks behind them.
 
2013-07-14 10:28:48 PM

wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.


Define "effective" because while there are any number of better weapons, you can still hit hard with a bat up close.

You can use them for a straight thrust to the ribs or face. If someone goes low you can strike their back or head with the butt in a hammer strike. You can also choke someone with it.

If nothing else in a variety of situations the bat will add weight and hardness to a strike. Certainly much better tohave the bat than not.
 
2013-07-14 10:28:58 PM

Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.


I was under the impression you don't "swing" an atlatl
 
2013-07-14 10:30:31 PM
Oh and if we are escalating the discussion to a higher level of skill, there is a little thing fighters do called 'creating space' :)
 
2013-07-14 10:30:38 PM

bmfderek: Bslim: staplermofo: FTFA: I've just given someone a weapon.

Has this guy never seen a movie with a bar fight?  Bottles, pool cues and bar stools all the way.  Some guy gets tossed through a hanging light and another into a pinball machine.  Then the barkeep wipes the bar, takes the money the good guy throws on the counter and pours another drink.  Sheesh, everybody knows that.

You forgot the part where the barkeep breaks a bottle over somebody's head.

Isn't the bartender supposed to light a match, drop it onto some spilled liquor, and watch as the flame runs down the bar to ignite the bad guy?


Nah, that's for the antihero to do when the bar is owned by the villain and staffed by bad guys.
   "I just wanted to talk this out, but you guys wouldn't listen"
 
2013-07-14 10:32:06 PM

redmid17: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I was under the impression you don't "swing" an atlatl


associations.missouristate.edu
"Fling" maybe? Either way if you can't get enough space to swing a baseball bat I doubt you can get your atlatl prepared to fly.
 
2013-07-14 10:34:53 PM

redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

You know, the safety of my patrons never entered my mind.  I'd probably suck at owning a bar.

Not gonna lie, if you have to bust out the SBS to break up a bar fight, there might not be too many innocent patrons. I'd rather have a handgun because you have more rounds and it's smaller with less recoil, but that is just me.

/BLAM BLAM

Oh, I wouldn't get all buckshotty on a bar fight.  I was envisioning a robbery scenario where I cower on the floor like a little girl to distract/disgust the would-be robber while I secretly retrieve the belly buster.  Firing from that angle would minimize collateral damage from the over-penetration, but cleanup on the ceiling would be a b*tch.

Oh in that case he was asking for it. I'm sure insurance would cover the ceiling. Worse comes to worse, just make a barback or busboy wipe it down with bleach water and paint over it. $100 at most.


Leave the bloodstains and name a shot after the robber, imo.
 
2013-07-14 10:36:33 PM

Treygreen13: redmid17: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I was under the impression you don't "swing" an atlatl

[associations.missouristate.edu image 850x346]
"Fling" maybe? Either way if you can't get enough space to swing a baseball bat I doubt you can get your atlatl prepared to fly.


True enough
 
2013-07-14 10:46:11 PM

Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.


I think I could swing an atlatl behind a bar.  generally, they're only about 12 to 15 inches long.
 
2013-07-14 10:47:59 PM
Point I was making is that guns are ranged weapons, and clubs are melee weapons.  So the equivalent of the gun back in the stone age would be whatever projectile weapon they had, mainly, the atlatl and dart, and towards the latter part of it, the bow and arrow.
 
2013-07-14 10:54:39 PM

dittybopper: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I think I could swing an atlatl behind a bar.  generally, they're only about 12 to 15 inches long.


I think if you had the time to load and sling an atlatl you'd have the time to grab and swing a bat.

But I know what you mean. Just arguing about ancient weapons because, honestly, how often do we get the opportunity to do that? It's awesome.

Cheers.
 
2013-07-14 10:55:12 PM

gilatrout: albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives

What if they come running at you with a pointed stick?


Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh?  Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!
 
2013-07-14 10:56:00 PM

Treygreen13: dittybopper: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I think I could swing an atlatl behind a bar.  generally, they're only about 12 to 15 inches long.

I think if you had the time to load and sling an atlatl you'd have the time to grab and swing a bat.

But I know what you mean. Just arguing about ancient weapons because, honestly, how often do we get the opportunity to do that? It's awesome.

Cheers.


Would it be practical to load and launch an atlatl with a drink on the end? They could get rid of servers entirely if we could do that.
 
2013-07-14 11:04:57 PM
The Willie T, at Norman Island, has a shortened, lead shotted baseball bat as a bar protector, affectionately named, "Yer asked for it."

/Also a 6 1/2 foot long pet barracuda.
 
2013-07-14 11:06:47 PM
a liquor bottle, a beer bottle (esp a Galliano) creates incredible destruction to humans.
Not CSB, saw a kid catch a Schmidts bottle with his face.
The surgeon spent over four hours picking glass out of the kid.
Hadda testify at the trial.
My best friend got laid out via pool cue as he was taking his shot.   Subduralhematomas  are nasty little items to come back from and to be truthful he damn near didn't.

So unless you want to be the next George Zimmerman, walking away / calling 5-0 / leaving the weapons on the bar, has it's benefits.
 
2013-07-14 11:07:30 PM

redmid17: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I think I could swing an atlatl behind a bar.  generally, they're only about 12 to 15 inches long.

I think if you had the time to load and sling an atlatl you'd have the time to grab and swing a bat.

But I know what you mean. Just arguing about ancient weapons because, honestly, how often do we get the opportunity to do that? It's awesome.

Cheers.

Would it be practical to load and launch an atlatl with a drink on the end? They could get rid of servers entirely if we could do that.


Who wants a Vodka Martini at 96mph?!
 
2013-07-14 11:10:59 PM

Treygreen13: redmid17: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I think I could swing an atlatl behind a bar.  generally, they're only about 12 to 15 inches long.

I think if you had the time to load and sling an atlatl you'd have the time to grab and swing a bat.

But I know what you mean. Just arguing about ancient weapons because, honestly, how often do we get the opportunity to do that? It's awesome.

Cheers.

Would it be practical to load and launch an atlatl with a drink on the end? They could get rid of servers entirely if we could do that.

Who wants a Vodka Martini at 96mph?!


Depends if you want to be able to drink it at the end of the toss.
 
2013-07-14 11:12:18 PM

Treygreen13: redmid17: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Treygreen13: dittybopper: Technically, the gun of the Stone Age would be the atlatl and dart.

Good luck swinging one of those behind a bar, though.

I think I could swing an atlatl behind a bar.  generally, they're only about 12 to 15 inches long.

I think if you had the time to load and sling an atlatl you'd have the time to grab and swing a bat.

But I know what you mean. Just arguing about ancient weapons because, honestly, how often do we get the opportunity to do that? It's awesome.

Cheers.

Would it be practical to load and launch an atlatl with a drink on the end? They could get rid of servers entirely if we could do that.

Who wants a Vodka Martini at 96mph?!


Who wants a vodka martini?

/i'm no communist
//or james bond
 
2013-07-14 11:12:28 PM

redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

You know, the safety of my patrons never entered my mind.  I'd probably suck at owning a bar.

Not gonna lie, if you have to bust out the SBS to break up a bar fight, there might not be too many innocent patrons. I'd rather have a handgun because you have more rounds and it's smaller with less recoil, but that is just me.

/BLAM BLAM


here is a sad thing...every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"
 
2013-07-14 11:13:36 PM

redmid17: Who wants a vodka martini?


Hahaha. True that.
 
2013-07-14 11:14:21 PM

Heathen: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

You know, the safety of my patrons never entered my mind.  I'd probably suck at owning a bar.

Not gonna lie, if you have to bust out the SBS to break up a bar fight, there might not be too many innocent patrons. I'd rather have a handgun because you have more rounds and it's smaller with less recoil, but that is just me.

/BLAM BLAM

here is a sad thing...every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"


If you want him to stop, hold something cold and roughly circular against his head while demanding his "money" while his eyes are closed

/or just tell him to stop being creepy
//or just not hang out with him
 
2013-07-14 11:21:49 PM

Marcintosh: a liquor bottle, a beer bottle (esp a Galliano) creates incredible destruction to humans.
Not CSB, saw a kid catch a Schmidts bottle with his face.
The surgeon spent over four hours picking glass out of the kid.
Hadda testify at the trial.
My best friend got laid out via pool cue as he was taking his shot.   Subduralhematomas  are nasty little items to come back from and to be truthful he damn near didn't.

So unless you want to be the next George Zimmerman, walking away / calling 5-0 / leaving the weapons on the bar, has it's benefits.


What are you, some kind of "Internet Nice Guy"?

Seriously though, good reality check there.
 
2013-07-14 11:28:03 PM
My vodka martini:

Good filtered vodka
up
Dirty
3 blue cheese stuffed olives

My friends call it the stinkypussy.
 
2013-07-14 11:30:07 PM

gilatrout: albuquerquehalsey: Mentat: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

What about thrusting swords?

A.K.A. Knives

What if they come running at you with a pointed stick?


i1079.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-14 11:32:23 PM

wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.


Pirates found the same problem, that why they switch to short swords, cutlasses, and daggers. Also a short to medium length katana kept at a razors edge can do a lot of damage with very little to no back swing, as katanas you use like a knife in a slicing motion. One could also argue a rapier is also used in a thrusting/stabbing action which requires no back swing, but they do tend to be longer and could be difficult to draw from a completely horizontal position behind a bar.
 
2013-07-14 11:32:33 PM

Heathen: every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"


Which three letter organization does he work for?
 
2013-07-14 11:37:57 PM

HotWingAgenda: Heathen: every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"

Which three letter organization does he work for?


NAMBLA is more than 3 letters.
 
2013-07-14 11:39:51 PM

Bung_Howdy: csb: I was prosecuted in southern California as a young man for felony hidden weapon possession for my basebal bat in my (baseball) bag (along with glove and clothes). Hard charging prosecutor only dropped it at the last second before going to trial. What a dick- knew full well I was coming back from a game...

/notices none of my csb stories are really cool- mostly frustrating


cdn.bleacherreport.net
Bung Howdy as a kid?
 
2013-07-14 11:40:28 PM

HotWingAgenda: Heathen: every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"

Which three letter organization does he work for?


Some people learn that lesson the hard way, once bitten, twice shy, so to speak.  Always know how to get out of a building...
 
2013-07-14 11:40:33 PM

tjsands1118: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

Pirates found the same problem, that why they switch to short swords, cutlasses, and daggers. Also a short to medium length katana kept at a razors edge can do a lot of damage with very little to no back swing, as katanas you use like a knife in a slicing motion. One could also argue a rapier is also used in a thrusting/stabbing action which requires no back swing, but they do tend to be longer and could be difficult to draw from a completely horizontal position behind a bar.


Pirates don't know how to use bats?

This explains SO MUCH!
 
2013-07-14 11:45:14 PM

HotWingAgenda: Heathen: every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"

Which three letter organization does he work for?


worked, and won't say
 
2013-07-14 11:46:06 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: B-b-b-but a good guy with a gun trumps a bad guy with a gun...


img42.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-14 11:48:39 PM

Heathen: HotWingAgenda: Heathen: every time my buddy and I go to a new bar (sometimes old) his question 20 seconds in is, "close your eyes, where are the exits"

Which three letter organization does he work for?

worked, and won't say


Rule #1  - Cardio
 
2013-07-14 11:52:26 PM

redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.


Put slugs in it
 
2013-07-14 11:55:20 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: redmid17: Psycoholic_Slag: wildcardjack: Bats, like swords, require too much backswing to make an effective weapon in a tight space.

So true.  This would be my first choice for behind-the-bar security:

[static.giantbomb.com image 640x549]

Eh bad idea. Spread on a SBS would likely hit innocent bystanders unless your bar is only filled with bad guys. Better to get a handgun, small caliber or not.

Put slugs in it


Still have issues with recoil and accuracy. There's a reason why most criminals and all policemen use handguns.
 
2013-07-14 11:58:31 PM

Smackledorfer: Oh and if we are escalating the discussion to a higher level of skill, there is a little thing fighters do called 'creating space' :)


I was going to say something along these lines, re: the bar.

The bar creates space, it's an advantage, if the fight is out on the floor, yeah - bar keep hides behind the bar.

Someone goes for the barkeep? Bar adds space/time and I'd hope the patrons would get involved but if not, why have the bar be the last line of defense?

Ask the French about using static defenses in a dynamic situation.

/first rule of self defense is have a way to defend yourself
//second rule is when a situation presents itself, get away from it
 
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