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(US News)   Rail meet Road: The Justice Department says, it is looking into the shooting death of Trayvon Martin to determine whether Federal Prosecutors should file criminal civil rights charges now that George Zimmerman has been acquitted in the State case   (usnews.com) divider line 722
    More: Obvious, United States Attorney, Justice Department  
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6031 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 7:51 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-14 04:54:27 PM
From the other article: "The president, in a statement, acknowledged an emotionally charged climate but concluded that "we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken."

Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President.  Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.
 
2013-07-14 04:55:02 PM
*tell

/dammit.
 
2013-07-14 05:04:06 PM
"Rail meet Road:"

Does this mean that We have derailed?
 
2013-07-14 05:05:07 PM

doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.


Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.
 
2013-07-14 05:07:30 PM

RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.


Yes, but do you think that the DOJ would have considered it had he been convicted?
 
2013-07-14 05:09:08 PM
A criminal civil rights case would go nowhere.  Because Zimmerman wasn't acting under color of law, the only civil rights law that is even remotely applicable is 18 U.S.C. 249, which applies to "[w]hoever . . . willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of . . . a firearm, . . . attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person"

So, not only would the prosecutors need to prove that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense, but they would have to specifically prove that Zimmerman shot Martin "because of [Martin's] actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin."  That case would be laughed out of court.
 
2013-07-14 05:10:46 PM
The DOJ seems to be trying really hard to divide people.
Holder is a criminal scumbag, and it shows.
 
2013-07-14 05:12:10 PM

doyner: RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.

Yes, but do you think that the DOJ would have considered it had he been convicted?


I'm just pointing out that you really should inform yourself of the topic of what you are about to talk about before you start talking about it, otherwise, you might come off sounding rather ignorant.
 
2013-07-14 05:13:08 PM

jehovahs witness protection: The DOJ seems to be trying really hard to divide people.
Holder is a criminal scumbag, and it shows.


Right-winger says what?
 
2013-07-14 05:14:48 PM

RexTalionis: I'm just pointing out that you really should inform yourself of the topic of what you are about to talk about before you start talking about it, otherwise, you might come off sounding rather ignorant.


Sweet Jesus what a pedant you are.  Fine, let's call it "conviction shopping" instead.  It's still a dangerous precedent.
 
2013-07-14 05:15:30 PM
I fail to see what purpose this would serve. Other than take people's minds off of what the government is doing to all of our civil liberties.
 
2013-07-14 05:17:50 PM

doyner: Sweet Jesus what a pedant you are. Fine, let's call it "conviction shopping" instead. It's still a dangerous precedent.


Some of us take pride in getting things factually correct. And the precedent has been set for decades.
 
2013-07-14 05:19:34 PM

doyner: Double jeopardy


Being tried by different sovereigns for violations of different sovereigns' laws != double jeopardy
 
2013-07-14 05:19:58 PM

RexTalionis: doyner: Sweet Jesus what a pedant you are. Fine, let's call it "conviction shopping" instead. It's still a dangerous precedent.

Some of us take pride in getting things factually correct. And the precedent has been set for decades.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

But you still come off as rather Zimmerman-ey
 
2013-07-14 05:20:43 PM

kronicfeld: doyner: Double jeopardy

Being tried by different sovereigns for violations of different sovereigns' laws != double jeopardy


Yes, I addressed that.  I should have called it conviction shopping.  Surely there's nothing bad that could come of that.
 
2013-07-14 05:22:54 PM

Nabb1: I fail to see what purpose this would serve. Other than take people's minds off of what the government is doing to all of our civil liberties.


Right.  Can't we get back to talking about what a weasel Snowden is and how Glenn Greenwald is an asshole?  You know, the important stuff.
 
2013-07-14 05:31:04 PM

doyner: RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.

Yes, but do you think that the DOJ would have considered it had he been convicted?


That's irrelevant.
 
2013-07-14 05:32:45 PM

thamike: doyner: RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.

Yes, but do you think that the DOJ would have considered it had he been convicted?

That's irrelevant.


It's completely relevant in that it is an option exercised only when the federal government is under political pressure to do so.
 
2013-07-14 05:33:17 PM

doyner: RexTalionis: I'm just pointing out that you really should inform yourself of the topic of what you are about to talk about before you start talking about it, otherwise, you might come off sounding rather ignorant.

Sweet Jesus what a pedant you are.  Fine, let's call it "conviction shopping" instead.  It's still a dangerous precedent.


Who's being a pedant?
 
2013-07-14 05:34:26 PM
Just let it go already.
 
2013-07-14 05:35:07 PM

doyner: It's completely relevant in that it is an option exercised only when the federal government is under political pressure to do so.


But wasn't relevant to your previous assertion regarding "double jeopardy,"  which you have since revised.

It's still a dangerous precedent.

It's not a precedent either.
 
2013-07-14 05:35:07 PM

thamike: doyner: RexTalionis: I'm just pointing out that you really should inform yourself of the topic of what you are about to talk about before you start talking about it, otherwise, you might come off sounding rather ignorant.

Sweet Jesus what a pedant you are.  Fine, let's call it "conviction shopping" instead.  It's still a dangerous precedent.

Who's being a pedant?


I guess we all are.
 
2013-07-14 05:35:43 PM

thamike: doyner: It's completely relevant in that it is an option exercised only when the federal government is under political pressure to do so.

But wasn't relevant to your previous assertion regarding "double jeopardy,"  which you have since revised.

It's still a dangerous precedent.

It's not a precedent either.


It is.  Not "would be."
 
2013-07-14 05:38:56 PM

doyner: thamike: doyner: It's completely relevant in that it is an option exercised only when the federal government is under political pressure to do so.

But wasn't relevant to your previous assertion regarding "double jeopardy,"  which you have since revised.

It's still a dangerous precedent.

It's not a precedent either.

It is.  Not "would be."


Just give up, man.  It's perfectly reasonable to be critical of this without an understanding of certain legal terms.
 
2013-07-14 05:41:32 PM

doyner: It is. Not "would be."


Which is why we need a new legal system.  Precedents are a bad idea.  It's cumbersome, puts undue importance on cases that shouldn't be burdened with "ZOMG, if they find him guilty, then ____ forever!" and gobs of other reasons.  We can do better!
 
2013-07-14 05:41:47 PM

thamike: doyner: thamike: doyner: It's completely relevant in that it is an option exercised only when the federal government is under political pressure to do so.

But wasn't relevant to your previous assertion regarding "double jeopardy,"  which you have since revised.

It's still a dangerous precedent.

It's not a precedent either.

It is.  Not "would be."

Just give up, man.  It's perfectly reasonable to be critical of this without an understanding of certain legal terms.


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-14 05:42:01 PM

RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.


I'm not up on the legal definition of "substantially the same" crime.
What crime might he be charged with that is substantially different than the one he was acquitted of?
 
2013-07-14 05:42:25 PM
So the very same Justice Department and administration that is currently pissing all over the 4th amendment is now worried about civil rights.


Was the irony tag on vacation?
 
2013-07-14 05:42:45 PM

nekom: Just let it go already.


Please dear god this.
 
2013-07-14 05:44:33 PM

serial_crusher: RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.

I'm not up on the legal definition of "substantially the same" crime.
What crime might he be charged with that is substantially different than the one he was acquitted of?


It can't be on the same indictment. Florida didn't bring any civil rights charges to bear, so there's that.  Also, the DoJ can exercise it's Dual Sovereignty rights and charge the same thing as a federal offense.  Still BS.
 
2013-07-14 05:55:57 PM

RexTalionis: doyner: Please tel that to your AG, Mr. President. Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.

Double jeopardy pertains to trying a defendant twice for the same or substantially the same crime. It does not attach when the government tries a defendant for a different crime with a different set of elements.

/The more you know.


I think we all realize that it wouldn't be true double jeopardy. However it would be a form of de facto double jeopardy.

Last trial was about whether or not he committed murder 2 on another person while claiming he was acting in self-defense. Race was never even brought up. Well... except for Trayvon's witness.

He was found not guilty of those charges.

This time he'd be faced with murdering a black man while he is claiming self defense.

The penalties are potentially worse, up to and including execution... which he did not face in the Florida trial.

Do you think anybody really gives a rat's ass whether or not it's technically double jeopardy?

I mean... really??? Damn.
 
2013-07-14 05:56:09 PM
I think he will be charged by the DOJ for substantially the same crime or anything else confusingly similar thereto.
 
2013-07-14 05:58:30 PM
I don't think there's a case here.

However, the black gal who just got 20 years for the warning shot might benefit...
 
2013-07-14 06:07:08 PM

edmo: However, the black gal who just got 20 years for the warning shot might benefit...


i53.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-14 06:30:20 PM

thamike: Just give up, man.  It's perfectly reasonable to be critical of this without an understanding of certain legal terms.


So we're restricted to legal terms exclusively and not the broader English language definition?  Is this Fark or the Harvard Law Review?
 
2013-07-14 06:58:10 PM

doyner: Is this Fark or the Harvard Law Review?


Why can't it be both?  They hate this country equally.
 
2013-07-14 07:17:05 PM

doyner: thamike: Just give up, man.  It's perfectly reasonable to be critical of this without an understanding of certain legal terms.

So we're restricted to legal terms exclusively and not the broader English language definition?  Is this Fark or the Harvard Law Review?


Of "double jeopardy?"

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

How broad are we getting here?
 
2013-07-14 07:46:45 PM
Ahab must have his whale.
 
2013-07-14 07:52:50 PM
I think from now on black in neighborhoods should have to wear something like a parking permit to prove they belong there. If they're wearing the permit then neighborhood watch people can't chase them.
 
2013-07-14 07:53:00 PM

muck4doo: Ahab must have his whale.


His white latino whale
 
2013-07-14 07:53:18 PM
You have a civil right to beat someone for following you now? Glad I carry a gun.
 
2013-07-14 07:53:30 PM

doyner: Double jeopardy erodes our rights much more than a Zimmerman acquittal ever could.


Dual sovereigns or some such.
 
2013-07-14 07:54:32 PM

edmo: I don't think there's a case here.

However, the black gal who just got 20 years for the warning shot might benefit...


Please read about the case. She shouldn't have gotten 20 years but when you leave the scene of a confrontation come back with a gun and shoot it at someone you definitely broke some laws.
 
2013-07-14 07:57:08 PM
Are they looking into Zimmerman's Civil Rights? He was beaten because Trayvon thought he was a white man(Cracker)
 
2013-07-14 07:57:17 PM
I'm just gonna come right out and say it. George Zimmerman is worse than Hitler. Far, far worse than Hitler was or ever could have been. In fact, you cold take a room full of Hitlers -  A ROOM FULL OF HITLERS - now just just think about that for a moment ladies and gentlemen of the jury, a roomful of Hitlers,  and it wouldn't even come close.
 
2013-07-14 07:58:17 PM
Isn't having to live with being a fat biatch pussy wannabe-snitch enough punishment?
 
2013-07-14 07:59:07 PM

clancifer: jehovahs witness protection: The DOJ seems to be trying really hard to divide people.
Holder is a criminal scumbag, and it shows.

Right-winger says what?


FACT

I put that word there, because I know a liberal won't come near it.
 
2013-07-14 07:59:19 PM

edmo: I don't think there's a case here.

However, the black gal who just got 20 years for the warning shot might benefit...


...why?
 
2013-07-14 07:59:32 PM

Carth: She shouldn't have gotten 20 years


10-20-life.  Not saying it's a good or bad law, but it is currently the law.
 
2013-07-14 07:59:49 PM

EnderX: Are they looking into Zimmerman's Civil Rights? He was beaten because Trayvon thought he was a white man(Cracker)


THIS, they are only looking at this because Treyvon had the same level of melanin as Barry &Eric.
 
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