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(Mental Floss)   Ever wonder what sadistic programming bastard thought "control-alt-delete" was a good idea? His name was David Bradley, and it actually made sense at the time   (mentalfloss.com) divider line 164
    More: Interesting, IBM, Windows USER  
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17929 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 3:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



164 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-14 12:41:26 PM  
Subby assumes it doesn't make sense now.
 
2013-07-14 12:48:30 PM  
The first computer command I learned

/and one I still use frequently
 
2013-07-14 12:52:08 PM  
Thanks for submitting that, subby.
 
2013-07-14 12:56:46 PM  
I remember when 640k was all the memory you could possibly ever need in a personal computer.  And all the porn was in ASCII.
 
2013-07-14 01:05:06 PM  
And yet, few of these consumers were aware of Bradley's shortcut quietly lingering in their machines. It wasn't until the early 1990s, when Microsoft's Windows took off, that the shortcut came to prominence.

Um, yeah, that's BS.
 
2013-07-14 01:11:08 PM  

LordOfThePings: And yet, few of these consumers were aware of Bradley's shortcut quietly lingering in their machines. It wasn't until the early 1990s, when Microsoft's Windows took off, that the shortcut came to prominence.

Um, yeah, that's BS.


Yea, all the IBM (and other pc) instruction manuals had information on performing a "warm boot".
 
2013-07-14 01:26:54 PM  
Story I was told by my dad (we had some of the first home PCs in the 80s, as my dad worked in aerospace and read the writing on the wall) was that the keys were selected purposefully so they wouldn't be pressed on accident. This was in the days before Windows asked you permission twice before doing anything, and one errant keystroke could format your entire computer, with no "are you sure" so you could go "wait wait I didn't mean THAT!"

*reads article*

Well waddya know.

/bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-07-14 01:27:07 PM  
Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

I had a Mac application which popped up two dialog windows at the same time. You couldn't select either or dismiss either, and Macs refuse to shut down while a dialog is active.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-07-14 01:28:46 PM  
/bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.

Qwerty keyboards are designed to make one handed typing as difficult as possible. They separate frequent letter pairs.
 
2013-07-14 01:39:31 PM  
I have given this passing thought before and I gotta say, that is *exactly* what I thought the origin of ctrl alt del would be.
I'll even bet the guy was wearing a short-sleeved shirt, kept a moustache, and had on a pair of glasses with very sturdy frames at the precise moment he settled on the key sequence.
 
2013-07-14 01:45:00 PM  
FTFA:  "I have to share the credit," Bradley joked. "I may have invented it, but I think Bill made it famous."
  True dat.
 
2013-07-14 01:48:29 PM  

Marcus Aurelius:  And all the porn was in ASCII.


ZAZ:Qwerty keyboards are designed to make one handed typing as difficult as possible.


These two posts belong together.
 
2013-07-14 01:51:25 PM  
Meh.  I liked Ctrl-Alt-Del before it went mainstream.  I still prefer Alt-Tab.
 
2013-07-14 02:57:50 PM  
Ctl-Alt-Del isn't sadistic -it's cryptic.

Just because it seems obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to my 65 year old neighbor lady.

"Do you work with computers?" I've heard it a thousand times. When I go and examine their computers there are two tools: Ctl-Alt-Del and MSCONFIG that tell me everything I need to know.
 
2013-07-14 03:10:16 PM  

ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

I had a Mac application which popped up two dialog windows at the same time. You couldn't select either or dismiss either, and Macs refuse to shut down while a dialog is active.


Why is that unfortunate? A hard boot only adds a hardware test to the boot sequence. Do you really need to do that? I would think testing my memory should be a rare thing. If it's that important I'm going to use ECC and have it alert me for failures any way.


I Have servers i support that have 256gb ram and 80 cores. Takes 20+ minutes to boot if i let it do a full post. Needless to say downtime is hard to get and i want to minimize it any way i can. Including any hardware testing i can since i have Tivoli monitoring it any way.
 
2013-07-14 03:10:55 PM  
LOL. Never heard it called the "three fingered salute" before. That's pretty good.
 
2013-07-14 03:12:21 PM  
I would really like to see the pants-on-head mishaps subby had to go through to reach the conclusion that CTRLAltDel is mysterious and sadistic.
 
2013-07-14 03:33:36 PM  
I'm still partial to CTRL-Z
 
2013-07-14 03:45:49 PM  
I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?
 
2013-07-14 03:48:56 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?


I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.
 
2013-07-14 03:54:47 PM  
I don't understand why ctrl-alt-del is sadistic programming.
 
2013-07-14 03:57:51 PM  
the first thing I do when turning on my computer is open up TskMngr via ctrl-alt-del

suck it
 
2013-07-14 03:58:46 PM  
imgs.mi9.com

avoid the hard boot.
 
2013-07-14 04:01:20 PM  
Cool, quick read.

Thanks, Subs.
 
2013-07-14 04:03:29 PM  

Shostie: Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?

I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.


Y'know, growing up with 5.5" floppies (pinewood derby/oregon trail were staples of my childhood) and later, obviously, 3.5" floppies, I never really even thought about what you just pointed out.
 
2013-07-14 04:04:14 PM  
Does this headline not make sense because I'm too old or because it doesn't make sense?
 
2013-07-14 04:04:36 PM  
FTA "Because Apple and RadioShack were already selling small stand-alone computers:"

Ahh the usual revisionism. Atari? Commodore?
 
2013-07-14 04:06:50 PM  
Peki: ...  bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.

Yep, otherwise adjacent typebars would get wedged together.  Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.
 
2013-07-14 04:08:15 PM  
When I worked for a large financial services company in the IT department, they were ultra paranoid about keeping workstations locked when you weren't at your desk. "CTRL ALT DELETE when you leave your seat" was posted all over the building.
 
2013-07-14 04:08:44 PM  
[CSB]
I took a class with this guy at NCSU.  It was mostly run by his TAs.  He also opened class with that story.  This was in 1997 or 1998.
[/CSB]

/Thank you
 
2013-07-14 04:08:57 PM  

Tchernobog: Shostie: Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?

I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.

Y'know, growing up with 5.5" floppies (pinewood derby/oregon trail were staples of my childhood) and later, obviously, 3.5" floppies, I never really even thought about what you just pointed out.


When I was little, I thought a 3.5" disk was a "hard disk", because the case was hard and not floppy like a 5.25" disk.
 
2013-07-14 04:09:01 PM  
I also had never heard "three-finger salute".  That's pretty good.


But, I don't use a finger for DEL.
 
2013-07-14 04:09:38 PM  
Article's subject is poorly researched and apparently not vey familiar to TFAuthor in the first place.

Soft rebooting existed prior to IBM 5150 development, as did home computers from Atari, Commodore, Osborne, eat al.
 
2013-07-14 04:10:29 PM  
Funny the article says CTRL-ALT-DEL was little known until the popularization of Windows.  CTRL-ALT-DEL and MS-DOS went together like calamine lotion and poison ivy.
 
2013-07-14 04:11:42 PM  
Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.

"Yeah, now try typing something other than the word 'typewriter'."

Some 'facts' cannot be killed.
 
2013-07-14 04:12:12 PM  

Peki: /bonus fact

endlessly recycled completely false urban legend: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.

Fixed.
 
2013-07-14 04:12:23 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: FTA "Because Apple and RadioShack were already selling small stand-alone computers:"

Ahh the usual revisionism. Atari? Commodore?


Xerox, too.
 
2013-07-14 04:12:24 PM  

Shostie: Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?

I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.


They didn't make the world, so why should it be made for them?
 
2013-07-14 04:13:29 PM  
That was even an answer (question) on jeopardy once.

/Rue the day Trebek
 
2013-07-14 04:14:20 PM  
What's sadistic about Ctrl-Alt-Delete?  I mean, yeah, there are some times when there's an unexpected error and you don't really want to quit fapping while you wait for the system to recover. It's not THAT bad, though.
 
2013-07-14 04:14:46 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.

"Yeah, now try typing something other than the word 'typewriter'."

Some 'facts' cannot be killed.


That probably wasn't by design, but I'm sure some early salesmen noticed it and used it as, if nothing else, a interesting talking point they could use to connect to the customer.
 
2013-07-14 04:15:40 PM  

Relatively Obscure: What's sadistic about Ctrl-Alt-Delete?  I mean, yeah, there are some times when there's an unexpected error and you don't really want to quit fapping while you wait for the system to recover. It's not THAT bad, though.


Because you have to make the strenuous effort to use TWO hands to reboot the computer!!!~~
 
2013-07-14 04:16:06 PM  

Peki: Story I was told by my dad (we had some of the first home PCs in the 80s, as my dad worked in aerospace and read the writing on the wall) was that the keys were selected purposefully so they wouldn't be pressed on accident. This was in the days before Windows asked you permission twice before doing anything, and one errant keystroke could format your entire computer, with no "are you sure" so you could go "wait wait I didn't mean THAT!"

*reads article*

Well waddya know.

/bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.


It was arrived at through a combination of design and trial-and-error, and the driving forces were to speed up (not slow down) typing and eliminate jams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwerty

Any time you run into an "interesting fact" that seems counter-intuitive, you should check it.  It's probably just wrong.
 
2013-07-14 04:20:38 PM  

muteidiotsavant: Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.


If that's  a fact, how would you explain QWERTY going through a decade of evolutionary rearrangements until "typewriter" was on the top row of keys?

In fact, how is that even convenient for a sales person?

Facts usually require a vetting process.
 
2013-07-14 04:22:03 PM  
Whoops, dogpile.  Sorry, dude.
 
2013-07-14 04:25:47 PM  

ultraholland: the first thing I do when turning on my computer is open up TskMngr via ctrl-alt-del

suck it


Safe yourself a step.  Ctrl+Alt+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.
 
2013-07-14 04:26:49 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: ultraholland: the first thing I do when turning on my computer is open up TskMngr via ctrl-alt-del

suck it

Safe yourself a step.  Ctrl+Alt+Esc

Ctrl+Shift+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.

/FTFM
 
2013-07-14 04:42:59 PM  
Is Subby under the impression that it no longer makes sense?
 
2013-07-14 04:43:24 PM  
What's sadistic is that Microsoft co-opted the key combo from rebooting the PC (a last-ditch function that you don't want to do accidentally), to become a mandatory prerequisite for logging in to the PC (a common function that you always do on purpose) -- essentially the opposite of its original function. TFA doesn't explain why they did this.
 
2013-07-14 04:48:04 PM  
I saw the tech conference where Bradley said that. Gates was PISSED, because it was (or seemed) an obvious jab at how often Windows PCs bluescreened.
 
2013-07-14 04:51:14 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-14 04:52:02 PM  
Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: Safe yourself a step. Ctrl+Alt+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.

not mine; goes straight to task manager.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-07-14 04:53:02 PM  
nytmare: What's sadistic is that Microsoft co-opted the key combo from rebooting the PC (a last-ditch function that you don't want to do accidentally), to become a mandatory prerequisite for logging in to the PC (a common function that you always do on purpose) -- essentially the opposite of its original function. TFA doesn't explain why they did this.

I think CTRL-ALT-DEL was implemented in the keyboard controller chip. It could not be diverted by a malicious program. The key combination generates an interrupt and the low level interrupt handler runs. You know you are getting the real OS and not a trojan.
 
2013-07-14 04:54:37 PM  

cmunic8r99: Subby assumes it doesn't make sense now.


This.
 
2013-07-14 04:55:25 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: FTA "Because Apple and RadioShack were already selling small stand-alone computers:"

Ahh the usual revisionism. Atari? Commodore?


I remember when Apple and Tandy were the only game in town.
 
2013-07-14 04:57:02 PM  
Here's video of that fateful conference with Bradley and Gates.

http://archive.org/details/g4tv.com-video5543
 
2013-07-14 04:57:15 PM  

nytmare: TFA doesn't explain why they did this.


Windows does this because the CTRL+ALT+DEL interrupt can be trapped by the OS  firstand the OS can prevent  any other application from trapping it. This means that CTRL+ALT+DEL will always cause  Windows to take over, and not, say, some malware designed to  look like a Windows logon screen.
 
2013-07-14 05:04:31 PM  

WhippingBoy: Quantum Apostrophe: FTA "Because Apple and RadioShack were already selling small stand-alone computers:"

Ahh the usual revisionism. Atari? Commodore?

I remember when Apple and Tandy were the only game in town.


What town was this? Commodore and Atari were around at that time.
 
2013-07-14 05:05:11 PM  

wkiernan: Funny the article says CTRL-ALT-DEL was little known until the popularization of Windows.  CTRL-ALT-DEL and MS-DOS went together like calamine lotion and poison ivy.


I feel better for not bothering to read the article then.

Alt-F4 is the ctrl-alt-del of windows... sort of (sometimes alt-f-x, or ctrl-q or ctrl-z or ctrl-c).
 
2013-07-14 05:18:04 PM  

ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.


i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-14 05:22:02 PM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

[i291.photobucket.com image 640x530]


Hunh, so I'm not the only one who gets that feeling.

/My computer refuses to shut down sometimes.
 
2013-07-14 05:29:52 PM  
it SHOULD be ctrl-alt-R-A-N-D-Y-Del-ENTER-+-1-2-3
 
2013-07-14 05:33:48 PM  

ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

I had a Mac application which popped up two dialog windows at the same time. You couldn't select either or dismiss either, and Macs refuse to shut down while a dialog is active.


Option + Apple + Escape doesn't work?
 
2013-07-14 05:34:00 PM  
I miss the old bootstrap days, when you communicated with the OS directly, not through layers of incomprehensible shells.
 
2013-07-14 05:40:42 PM  

PsiChick: Hunh, so I'm not the only one who gets that feeling./My computer refuses to shut down sometimes.


Should be a switch on the back of the computer where the power supply is. instant shutdown.
 
2013-07-14 05:46:06 PM  

JonnyBGoode: I miss the old bootstrap days, when you communicated with the OS directly, not through layers of incomprehensible shells.


all u have to really do is sudo root and /usr/bin/shutdown -h
 
2013-07-14 05:55:26 PM  

Peki: /bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.


*Sigh* It was designed so the keys wouldn't jam as the typebars crossed one another. It wasn't designed to slow anyone down. And, no, the Dvorak keyboard won't save millions in lost productivity.
 
2013-07-14 05:57:20 PM  
I still prefer Ctrl-K-I
and Ctrl-K-U.
 
2013-07-14 05:57:38 PM  

Peki: PsiChick: Hunh, so I'm not the only one who gets that feeling./My computer refuses to shut down sometimes.

Should be a switch on the back of the computer where the power supply is. instant shutdown.


It's a laptop, I just push the power button. Still feels like I'm smothering my poor baby.

/But then it wakes up and it's fine
//I need to get admin privileges and run it past someone halfway competent one of these days
 
2013-07-14 05:59:48 PM  

PsiChick: Peki: PsiChick: Hunh, so I'm not the only one who gets that feeling./My computer refuses to shut down sometimes.

Should be a switch on the back of the computer where the power supply is. instant shutdown.

It's a laptop, I just push the power button. Still feels like I'm smothering my poor baby.

/But then it wakes up and it's fine
//I need to get admin privileges and run it past someone halfway competent one of these days


Oh, yeah, important distinction. I suppose in that case the hard boot would be pulling the battery.
 
2013-07-14 06:00:50 PM  
www.evinco-software.com www.evinco-software.com

www.spinellis.gr
 
2013-07-14 06:02:12 PM  
I want to meet the guy that created the "print screen" key that never works...

and punch him.

Conversely, want to buy the inventor of the "boss key" a beer.
 
2013-07-14 06:02:43 PM  
Sadistic? Nope.

Watching memcheck got old real fast.

Now if you wanted sadistic, there was always WordStar.
 
2013-07-14 06:03:27 PM  

Any Pie Left: "print screen"


?? You've never opened Paint and pressed Ctrl-V right after???

/something tells me you didn't know it was essentially a ctrl-c function.
 
2013-07-14 06:08:11 PM  

Peki: Any Pie Left: "print screen"

?? You've never opened Paint and pressed Ctrl-V right after???

/something tells me you didn't know it was essentially a ctrl-c function.


Yeah, that was immensely helpful in the days before all the screengrab tools.
 
2013-07-14 06:08:31 PM  

Peki: PsiChick: Peki: PsiChick: Hunh, so I'm not the only one who gets that feeling./My computer refuses to shut down sometimes.

Should be a switch on the back of the computer where the power supply is. instant shutdown.

It's a laptop, I just push the power button. Still feels like I'm smothering my poor baby.

/But then it wakes up and it's fine
//I need to get admin privileges and run it past someone halfway competent one of these days

Oh, yeah, important distinction. I suppose in that case the hard boot would be pulling the battery.


No idea, I've never done it and never want to. My system admin has no sense of deadlines and, though I don't know much about computers, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to get a popup every single time you start your computer up asking if you want to update X, let alone have it randomly crash on you or refuse to turn off.

/To say nothing of how he won't run a weekly clean-up of the thing.
 
2013-07-14 06:17:01 PM  
Sadistic? No....

Sadistic was:

(A)bort,(R)etry,(F)ail?

/fail was the only one that worked.
 
2013-07-14 06:18:11 PM  

hogans: I still prefer Ctrl-K-I
and Ctrl-K-U.


Wordstar on CPM also used these

Which is why I use vi

But I also remember 8 inch floppies
 
2013-07-14 06:19:46 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: ultraholland: the first thing I do when turning on my computer is open up TskMngr via ctrl-alt-del

suck it

Safe yourself a step.  Ctrl+Alt+Esc Ctrl+Shift+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.

/FTFM




Just about to post that.

/hates posers
 
2013-07-14 06:28:25 PM  

itsaback: Sadistic? No....

Sadistic was:

(A)bort,(R)etry,(F)ail?

/fail was the only one that worked.


Always choose retry.

/the quote may be obscure, but I know the game isn't
//but yes, I agree, that line was the most sadistic of all
 
2013-07-14 06:40:07 PM  

Peki: itsaback: Sadistic? No....

Sadistic was:

(A)bort,(R)etry,(F)ail?

/fail was the only one that worked.

Always choose retry.

/the quote may be obscure, but I know the game isn't
//but yes, I agree, that line was the most sadistic of all




Now someone is installing it.
 
2013-07-14 06:42:25 PM  

Peki: /bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.


it's a bonus, but it's not a fact, just a well-repeated falsehood...
 
2013-07-14 06:46:42 PM  
Shutdown -r -f -t 0

Or, if you're powershell inclined...

Restart-computer -force
 
2013-07-14 06:47:00 PM  

Peki: Story I was told by my dad (we had some of the first home PCs in the 80s, as my dad worked in aerospace and read the writing on the wall) was that the keys were selected purposefully so they wouldn't be pressed on accident. This was in the days before Windows asked you permission twice before doing anything, and one errant keystroke could format your entire computer, with no "are you sure" so you could go "wait wait I didn't mean THAT!"


The old Apple ][ computers had a rage reset key, right next to the delete key.  Really common to accidentally hit it while editing a line.
 
2013-07-14 06:50:22 PM  
CTRL-ALT-DET came from the days where Sysadmiins were proud to have their servers running for 30 days straight, and were considered gods for having their servers up for six months straight.

/before reboots for patches
//and the HD space for the networks were a spacious 340 MB
///with a 'M'
 
2013-07-14 06:54:17 PM  

muteidiotsavant: Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.


Bonus bonus bonus fact: The longest word you can type entirely with your left hand is STEWARDESSES -- which leaves your right hand free for, um, other things.
 
2013-07-14 07:07:07 PM  
Control-Alt-Delete wasn't sadistic until Microsoft re-tasked it as a requirement to 'log in'. Linux had adopted Control-Alt-Delete in its original meaning: controlled but immediate warm boot. Microsoft's leadership were vicious and petty.
 
2013-07-14 07:10:00 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Control-Alt-Delete wasn't sadistic until Microsoft re-tasked it as a requirement to 'log in'. Linux had adopted Control-Alt-Delete in its original meaning: controlled but immediate warm boot. Microsoft's leadership were vicious and petty.


MooseUpNorth: Control-Alt-Delete wasn't sadistic until Microsoft re-tasked it as a requirement to 'log in'. Linux had adopted Control-Alt-Delete in its original meaning: controlled but immediate warm boot. Microsoft's leadership were vicious and petty.




www.instablogsimages.com
 
2013-07-14 07:10:11 PM  

Any Pie Left: I want to meet the guy that created the "print screen" key that never works...

and punch him.

Conversely, want to buy the inventor of the "boss key" a beer.


it used to print to your dot matrix printer when text displays were all the rage.

now it just copies your desktop to the clipboard.

what u want it to do print out a full color pic of your desktop automagically?  where's the fun in all that??
 
2013-07-14 07:10:30 PM  
Or, for older Macintosh users, the old Apple+CTRL+Reset
 
2013-07-14 07:10:39 PM  

LordOfThePings: And yet, few of these consumers were aware of Bradley's shortcut quietly lingering in their machines. It wasn't until the early 1990s, when Microsoft's Windows took off, that the shortcut came to prominence.

Um, yeah, that's BS.


This.  Pretty much everyone who used a PC knew exactly what CTRL-ALT-DEL was.
 
2013-07-14 07:12:36 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Control-Alt-Delete wasn't sadistic until Microsoft re-tasked it as a requirement to 'log in'. Linux had adopted Control-Alt-Delete in its original meaning: controlled but immediate warm boot. Microsoft's leadership were vicious and petty.


As others have pointed out, the reason Microsoft did this (beginning with Windows NT) was because it was the only key sequence that was handled as a hardware interrupt that can't be grabbed by a malicious process.  So when you hit that key sequence, you know you're getting the legit log-on screen.

But hey, if you'd rather hate Microsoft irrationally, go right ahead.
 
2013-07-14 07:13:23 PM  

Genju: Or, for older Macintosh users, the old Apple+CTRL+Reset


Or on the //e, //c, etc...CTRL-OpenApple-RESET.
 
2013-07-14 07:15:30 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: ultraholland: the first thing I do when turning on my computer is open up TskMngr via ctrl-alt-del

suck it

Safe yourself a step.  Ctrl+Alt+Esc Ctrl+Shift+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.

/FTFM


Whose awesome?  You're awesome!  Thanks for that.
 
2013-07-14 07:18:33 PM  
www.dansdata.com

DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?!
 
2013-07-14 07:30:00 PM  

Dadoody: [www.dansdata.com image 850x577]

DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?!


This was the sweet one:

az413224.vo.msecnd.net
Clicky keys that depressed about a half inch and it weighted 50 lbs.
 
2013-07-14 07:42:06 PM  

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: ultraholland: the first thing I do when turning on my computer is open up TskMngr via ctrl-alt-del

suck it

Safe yourself a step.  Ctrl+Alt+Esc Ctrl+Shift+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.

/FTFM


You're so cute. Both work. And REAL men have their Task Manager on their taskbar.
 
2013-07-14 07:47:05 PM  

flaminio: muteidiotsavant: Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.

Bonus bonus bonus fact: The longest word you can type entirely with your left hand is STEWARDESSES -- which leaves your right hand free for, um, other things.


Approves:

sexyfeminist.com
 
2013-07-14 08:01:48 PM  
No but I've wondered what sadistic bastard thought making the number pad upside-down from the number pad on a phone was a good idea, and why they thought the num lock key should go near the numbers but the parentheses shouldn't.
 
2013-07-14 08:06:19 PM  
*shrug* I like Alt-j.

Let's Tesselate?
 
2013-07-14 08:11:33 PM  

cmunic8r99: Subby assumes it doesn't make sense now.


Yeah, I'm not sure why subby thinks it's "sadistic" or "doesn't make sense".... Works perfectly fine, you can do it with one hand, yet you can't really accidentally hit it.

Maybe subby is an Apple user? I remember the confusion in 2001 or so when ey started issuing 2-button mice... Holy crap, talk about a deer in headlights look...
 
2013-07-14 08:12:55 PM  

ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

I had a Mac application which popped up two dialog windows at the same time. You couldn't select either or dismiss either, and Macs refuse to shut down while a dialog is active.


Windows 7 shuts down just fine, no confirmation.
 
2013-07-14 08:15:57 PM  

noitsnot: Peki: Story I was told by my dad (we had some of the first home PCs in the 80s, as my dad worked in aerospace and read the writing on the wall) was that the keys were selected purposefully so they wouldn't be pressed on accident. This was in the days before Windows asked you permission twice before doing anything, and one errant keystroke could format your entire computer, with no "are you sure" so you could go "wait wait I didn't mean THAT!"

*reads article*

Well waddya know.

/bonus fact: qwerty keyboards were also designed purposefully because typists were too fast for manual typewriters. Sucks that it's so stuck now we can't roll over to a more efficient lay out.

It was arrived at through a combination of design and trial-and-error, and the driving forces were to speed up (not slow down) typing and eliminate jams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwerty

Any time you run into an "interesting fact" that seems counter-intuitive, you should check it.  It's probably just wrong.


He didn't say that it was to slow down thing, he said that typists were too fast for the current layout. Keys were getting stuck together, so they found a setup that would work better WITH typists' speed.


Maybe you should sit and think about the context of a post before getting smug.
 
2013-07-14 08:19:32 PM  

jestme: No but I've wondered what sadistic bastard thought making the number pad upside-down from the number pad on a phone was a good idea, and why they thought the num lock key should go near the numbers but the parentheses shouldn't.


I'd be more curious why the phones are upside down from previous technology. Adding machines (then calculators, then computers) predate touch button phones by quite a bit.
 
2013-07-14 08:20:10 PM  

Tchernobog: Shostie: Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?

I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.

Y'know, growing up with 5.5" floppies (pinewood derby/oregon trail were staples of my childhood) and later, obviously, 3.5" floppies, I never really even thought about what you just pointed out.


What other kind of icon would make more sense? Just like a phone "rings" and we dial out. They still work because nobody's come up with something that replaces it as well...
 
2013-07-14 08:38:42 PM  

Mikey1969: What other kind of icon would make more sense?


A silicon atom with an electron in an excited state? Or maybe Tron-like light pulses going down some PCB traces? Maybe an eye-diagram for a high speed serial link?
 
2013-07-14 08:44:40 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Mikey1969: What other kind of icon would make more sense?

A silicon atom with an electron in an excited state? Or maybe Tron-like light pulses going down some PCB traces? Maybe an eye-diagram for a high speed serial link?


"Excited" like sporting wood?

That would be awesome...
 
2013-07-14 08:55:03 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Mikey1969: What other kind of icon would make more sense?

A silicon atom with an electron in an excited state? Or maybe Tron-like light pulses going down some PCB traces? Maybe an eye-diagram for a high speed serial link?


"Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.
 
2013-07-14 09:24:55 PM  

noitsnot: Dadoody: [www.dansdata.com image 850x577]

DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?!

This was the sweet one:

[az413224.vo.msecnd.net image 850x567]
Clicky keys that depressed about a half inch and it weighted 50 lbs.


Did you ever watch Call For Help, or one of those geek shows on G4 when it was TechTV and actually cool, because I can't remember if it was CFH or the other show, but once they were answering questions about spills on keyboards. Mom and I were both audibly gasped when the hosts took a brownie and mashed it into one of the demo keyboards, because we remember those days of the infinitely sticky 'n' that you didn't dare clean because the water would ruin the circuit board.
 
2013-07-14 09:39:44 PM  

flaminio: "Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.


That's what I think too. I'm baffled by the concept of manual saving when you can shuffle megabytes around in a millisecond. Sure, back in the Commodore 64 days, with un-accelerated 1541s, you could brew some tea and maybe bake a tray of cookies while you save a few pages of text. You had to hedge your bets, is the power going to fail or should I save?

I also find it ludicrous that I can open a notepad in windows, type one letter, and have the entire 64 bit OS screech to a halt when I want to shut it down because it asks the asinine question of where to put the file?

Anywhere. How about that?

It's not like any other piece of software these days cares about storage limits.
 
2013-07-14 09:40:29 PM  

flaminio: Quantum Apostrophe: Mikey1969: What other kind of icon would make more sense?

A silicon atom with an electron in an excited state? Or maybe Tron-like light pulses going down some PCB traces? Maybe an eye-diagram for a high speed serial link?

"Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.


If you don't save, how do the documents get saved? Gnomes? How does the file name get set? How does I have 3 or 4 working versions of a graphics file and specify the differences between each without saving? Gnomes again?
 
2013-07-14 09:42:44 PM  

Mikey1969: If you don't save, how do the documents get saved? Gnomes? How does the file name get set? How does I have 3 or 4 working versions of a graphics file and specify the differences between each without saving? Gnomes again?


None of that is intractable.

Mikey1969: "Excited" like sporting wood?


Just make sure you don't pick a middle-aged silicon atom. It'll have a softie then it'll fall asleep.
 
2013-07-14 09:50:21 PM  

Mikey1969: flaminio: Quantum Apostrophe: Mikey1969: What other kind of icon would make more sense?

A silicon atom with an electron in an excited state? Or maybe Tron-like light pulses going down some PCB traces? Maybe an eye-diagram for a high speed serial link?

"Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.

If you don't save, how do the documents get saved? Gnomes? How does the file name get set? How does I have 3 or 4 working versions of a graphics file and specify the differences between each without saving? Gnomes again?


Play with Google Docs a little bit. Your questions are all answered there. Google Docs isn't perfect, but it's a big step in the right direction.
 
2013-07-14 09:51:17 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: flaminio: "Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.

That's what I think too. I'm baffled by the concept of manual saving when you can shuffle megabytes around in a millisecond. Sure, back in the Commodore 64 days, with un-accelerated 1541s, you could brew some tea and maybe bake a tray of cookies while you save a few pages of text. You had to hedge your bets, is the power going to fail or should I save?

I also find it ludicrous that I can open a notepad in windows, type one letter, and have the entire 64 bit OS screech to a halt when I want to shut it down because it asks the asinine question of where to put the file?

Anywhere. How about that?

It's not like any other piece of software these days cares about storage limits.


You don't want to be asked to save your file or what to call it, how are you going to know what your file is called and where it is located? Most people actually work with maple files open, all organized in different places.


And the OS "screeching to a halt" is not happening, it's working just fine, just wants you to put your file where you'll find it later.

Keep up the practice, someday you'll master Notepad, and maybe you can move up to something tougher, like a browser. Saving files from the w b is scary stuff, they can be named ANYTHING...
 
2013-07-14 10:02:10 PM  

flaminio: Mikey1969: flaminio: Quantum Apostrophe: Mikey1969: What other kind of icon would make more sense?

A silicon atom with an electron in an excited state? Or maybe Tron-like light pulses going down some PCB traces? Maybe an eye-diagram for a high speed serial link?

"Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.

If you don't save, how do the documents get saved? Gnomes? How does the file name get set? How does I have 3 or 4 working versions of a graphics file and specify the differences between each without saving? Gnomes again?

Play with Google Docs a little bit. Your questions are all answered there. Google Docs isn't perfect, but it's a big step in the right direction.


Auto saving isn't really a productive option when you're working with large graphics files, especially when, as I mentioned, you can have multiple versions of the same file, with different results, and want to save them all individually, so that you can choose where you want to continue from.

AVID, an industry-level video editing suite, has a good way around this though. You set it up to autosave after a specified amount of inactivity, and then can force a save if it hasn't saved in a certain amount of time. In other words, if you haven't moved the mouse in a minute, it will autosave, and if it has gone 15 minutes without such an event, it will force an autosave. It's a pretty good setup, and I wish more apps would adopt it.

You still want to manually save, unless the last autosave was at the exact moment of your last change.

The problem with saving every little change incrementally is that you end up saving crap you farked up and didn't realize until after you've rub out of undo options, but before you would have saved it manually.
 
2013-07-14 10:06:12 PM  

ArkPanda: Tchernobog: Shostie: Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?

I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.

Y'know, growing up with 5.5" floppies (pinewood derby/oregon trail were staples of my childhood) and later, obviously, 3.5" floppies, I never really even thought about what you just pointed out.

When I was little, I thought a 3.5" disk was a "hard disk", because the case was hard and not floppy like a 5.25" disk.


I had a boss who was 40 and thought the same thing as you did.
 
2013-07-14 10:06:27 PM  

Mikey1969: You don't want to be asked to save your file or what to call it, how are you going to know what your file is called and where it is located?


Um, that's what we have computers for. They are excellent at storing and retrieving information. Did you know there are tons of temp files being used all the time, and you don't have to name them, or manually save them?

My God, how do the gnomes do it?

Mikey1969: And the OS "screeching to a halt" is not happening,


Um, yes it does. It should just generate a file name with the date and time and some (it can be done, I assure you), and save it somewhere (my God, will this complex issue ever be resolved?) and ask me for a file name when I'm NOT BUSY SHUTTING DOWN THE DAMN COMPUTER.

Mikey1969: just wants you to put your file where you'll find it later.


Again, this isn't a mystery. Computers are very good at storing information, I assure you. The computer is entirely able to save it somewhere it knows itself where it is.

Do you also manually specify the address in RAM for every character you type? How will the gnomes know where it goes!!????!??

OH NO!!!???!!!!

oldcomputers.net

Are you using one of these?????

If so, send me 1980s Ally Sheedy plz.
 
2013-07-14 10:10:39 PM  

itsaback: Sadistic? No....

Sadistic was:

(A)bort,(R)etry,(F)ail?

/fail was the only one that worked.


A Usenet/BBS staple:

 Once upon a midnight dreary, fingers cramped and vision bleary,
System manuals piled high and wasted paper on the floor
Longing for the warmth of bedsheets,
Still I sat there, doing spreadsheets;
Having reached the bottom line,
I took a floppy from the drawer.
Typing with a steady hand, then invoked the SAVE command
But I got a reprimand: it read Abort, Retry, Ignore.
Was this some occult illusion? Some maniacal intrusion?
These were choices Solomon himself had never faced before.
Carefully, I weighed my options.
These three seemed to be the top ones.
Clearly I must now adopt one:
Choose Abort, Retry, Ignore.
With my fingers pale and trembling,
Slowly toward the keyboard bending,
Longing for a happy ending, hoping all would be restored,
Praying for some guarantee
Finally I pressed a key--
But on the screen what did I see?
Again: Abort, Retry, Ignore.
I tried to catch the chips off-guard--
I pressed again, but twice as hard.
Luck was just not in the cards.
I saw what I had seen before.
Now I typed in desperation
Trying random combinations
Still there came the incantation:
Choose: Abort, Retry, Ignore.
There I sat, distraught, exhausted, by my own machine accosted
Getting up I turned away and paced across the office floor.
And then I saw an awful sight:
A bold and blinding flash of light--
A lightning bolt had cut the night and shook me to my very core.
I saw the screen collapse and die
"Oh no--my database," I cried
I thought I heard a voice reply,
"You'll see your data Nevermore!"
To this day I do not know
The place to which lost data goes
I bet it goes to heaven where the angels have it stored
But as for productivity, well
I fear that IT goes straight to hell
And that's the tale I have to tell
Your choice: Abort, Retry, Ignore.

/A favorite of mine.
 
2013-07-14 10:22:30 PM  
Heck, I feel like sharing another bit of computer history...

If you can understand half the references in this, well, you're an old, old hacker.

1992 Steven Weyhrich
(Sung to the tune of "American Pie" by Don McLean)
NOTE: To read these lyrics properly, the phrase "Two-E" refers to the "Apple //e" computer. It wouldn't come out sounding right if I'd put "IIe" in it's place; it might be read as "eye-eye-e".

A long, long time ago,
I can still remember how those programs
Used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance,
That I could make those users dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while.
November breezes made me shiver
With every upload I'd deliver
Bad news on the desktop
I couldn't make the text stop.
I can't remember if I cried
When I read about our faltered pride
But something touched me deep inside
The day
the Two-E
died.
So, bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank Mountain Dew and sighed,
Typin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."
Do you know your Apple's core?
Do you have faith in Woz's lore
If the Red Book tells you so?
Do you believe in ROR and ROL
Can BASIC save your mortal soul
And can you tell me why Pascal runs so slow?
Well, I know you love that Lisa hack
'Cause I saw you mousin' in the back
Well, MacWrite was big news
But AppleWorks got great reviews, oooh
I was a twenty-something computer fan
With a loaned assembler and some program plans
But I knew I'd be just an "also-ran"
The day the Two-E died.
I started singin'
Bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank Cola Jolt and sighed,
Typin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."
Now for twelve years we've been on our own
The software comes on my telephone
But that's not how it used to be
When ol' Steve Jobs planned a brand new box
With designs he borrowed from Xerox
And the cash, well it came from you and me
Oh, and while our Woz was looking down
Steve Jobs stole his designer's crown
The III plan was adjourned
No money was returned
And while Wagner wrote "Assembly Lines"
We liked our BASIC programs fine
And most thought ProDOS was divine
The day the Two-E died.
We were singin'
Bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank Dr. Pepper and sighed,
Typin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."
HUFFIN, PUFFIN, move files with MUFFIN
Single drive, lots of disks I'm stuffin'
Eight piles high, and fadin' fast...
With Macs out landing in the grass
The Pirates tried for a forward pass
Moving Two-E to the sidelines, in a cast
Now, the IIc Fair was sweet perfume
And "Forever!" was our marching tune
We all got up to dance
Oh, but we never got the chance
'Cause the Mac-heads tried to take the field
Our Apple II's refused to yield
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the Two-E died?
We started singin'
Bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank Diet Pepsi and sighed,
Typin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."
Ohhh, and there we were all in one place
An online conference lost in space
With no bucks left to start again
So come on, Tom be nimble, Tom be quick
Uncle-DOS made all our Apples tick
'Cause Merlin is the hacker's only friend
Oh, and as I watched him on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage
No one that I could tell
Could break that Sculley's spell
And as the flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite
I saw Sculley laughing with delight
The day the Two-E died
He was singin'
Bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank lemon tea and sighed,
Typin' "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."
I met a girl who sang of Blues
And I asked her for some Apple news
But she just smiled and turned away
I went to the computer store
Where I'd seen the Apple years before
But the man there said the Two-E couldn't play
And in the schools the children screamed
The teachers cried and the hackers dreamed
But not a file was open
The disk drives all were broken
And the news mags that I'd liked the most
Softalk, inCider - were all toast
They'd grabbed the last train for the coast
The day
the Two-E
died
And they were singin'
Bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank Snapple soda and cried,
Saying, "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be the day that I die."
They were singin'
Bye, bye to my Apple II pie
Hooked my RamFAST to the SCSI
But the SCSI was fried
And hackin' boys drank Snapple soda and cried,
Saying, "This'll be the day that I die.
This'll be
the day
that I die."
 
2013-07-14 10:22:44 PM  

cmunic8r99: Subby assumes it doesn't make sense now.


It doesn't now, nor did it ever. To begin with, it's a software trap. If your system is hung, Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't work. I can remember plenty of occasions on DOS, where that happened. Hell, half the games on DOS would access devices like the keyboard directly, effectively disabling it. It would have made much more sense to have a "warm reboot" button on the computer. It's not like CPUs at the time didn't support it.

On top of that, if your system needs a special key sequence for a warm reboot often enough that users are familiar with it, that's a seriously broken OS.
 
2013-07-14 10:35:16 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I remember when 640k was all the memory you could possibly ever need in a personal computer.  And all the porn was in ASCII.




(NSWF)
 
2013-07-14 10:37:56 PM  

Mikey1969: flaminio: Play with Google Docs a little bit. Your questions are all answered there. Google Docs isn't perfect, but it's a big step in the right direction.

Auto saving isn't really a productive option when you're working with large graphics files, especially when, as I mentioned, you can have multiple versions of the same file, with different results, and want to save them all individually, so that you can choose where you want to continue from.


Yes, but that's "Save As..." -- not "Save". "Save As..." remains useful; "Save" should die.
 
2013-07-14 11:12:44 PM  
What he should do, is invent this one to help out those computer challenged people that can't find it.

www.troll.me

And for those that can't remember passwords, just have them set their password to "incorrect", so when
they forget, they can put in anything, and then the computer will say that "your password is incorrect"
and they will know what to use.
 
2013-07-14 11:38:45 PM  

JonnyBGoode: I miss the old bootstrap days, when you communicated with the OS directly, not through layers of incomprehensible shells.


It's the last time I ever knew anything about how my computer worked. Oh my, the days of buying a new game or peripheral and taking time to read the manual to reconfigure the autoexec.bat file and the config.sys
 
2013-07-14 11:40:41 PM  

ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.


Pfft.  You and your Windows problems.
www.debian.org
 
2013-07-14 11:42:40 PM  

Dadoody: DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?!


Man, I can still hear the clicking with just a delicate touch of reverb coming from those keyboards.
 
2013-07-14 11:43:17 PM  

quatchi: LOL. Never heard it called the "three fingered salute" before. That's pretty good.


Your age starts with 1.
 
2013-07-14 11:57:11 PM  

Mikey1969: Tchernobog: Shostie: Popcorn Johnny: I don't understand the headline, what's so bad about it and why doesn't it make sense these days?

I guess it's kind of like how we use icons of floppy disks for save buttons, even though there are young computer users who have never used a floppy disk ever.

Y'know, growing up with 5.5" floppies (pinewood derby/oregon trail were staples of my childhood) and later, obviously, 3.5" floppies, I never really even thought about what you just pointed out.

What other kind of icon would make more sense? Just like a phone "rings" and we dial out. They still work because nobody's come up with something that replaces it as well...


Just like you have a "dashboard" on your car that doesn't protect mud from flying in your face from the road into your carriage. Certain iconic words and meanings evolve past their origin.

Plus they become a visual shorthand long after the original meaning is mostly lost. Example:

static.wikidoc.org

Do you have any problem understanding? Even though a vast majority of pharmacists no longer compound themselves?

lousysauce.com
Doctors don't even take the Hippocratic Oath anymore, so why should this be the universally understood sign?

Let's establish a coup de grace:

catholiclane.com
By agreement this is the international symbol for woman/man. Precisely where/when were women wearing dresses that looked like this? Doesn't matter. The convention is established.

Otherwise the understood symbol for saving would have to be tied to whatever thing the manufacturer would have been using, which would have rapidly evolved from a representation of a 5.25 disk, a 3.5 disk, a zip disc, a cd/dvd, then a usb drive, whatever the usual looks like, then a cloud. Some places it's good to have a constant that you don't have to think about what the meaning is, it's obvious to anyone that has used a computer. In the example of people that never used a 3.5 disk, they still have always had computers that used that symbol to denote saving. It may be an artifact, but it's an establish artifact. Notice the symbol for a phone is a particular Ma Bell model.

static3.depositphotos.com
 
2013-07-14 11:58:57 PM  

wkiernan: Funny the article says CTRL-ALT-DEL was little known until the popularization of Windows.  CTRL-ALT-DEL and MS-DOS went together like calamine lotion and poison ivy.


Still rather go with the poison ivy over any Microsoft operating system more recent than Xenix.

/They got it right the first time.
 
2013-07-15 12:03:16 AM  

aerojockey: Relatively Obscure: What's sadistic about Ctrl-Alt-Delete?  I mean, yeah, there are some times when there's an unexpected error and you don't really want to quit fapping while you wait for the system to recover. It's not THAT bad, though.

Because you have to make the strenuous effort to use TWO hands to reboot the computer!!!~~


On what brain damaged keyboard layout is that true?  Just reach across left-handed and you can hit all three keys in the chord in one shot.
 
2013-07-15 12:05:47 AM  

Fano: Otherwise the understood symbol for saving would have to be tied to whatever thing the manufacturer would have been using, which would have rapidly evolved from a representation of a 5.25 disk, a 3.5 disk, a zip disc, a cd/dvd, then a usb drive, whatever the usual looks like, then a cloud. Some places it's good to have a constant that you don't have to think about what the meaning is, it's obvious to anyone that has used a computer. In the example of people that never used a 3.5 disk, they still have always had computers that used that symbol to denote saving. It may be an artifact, but it's an establish artifact. Notice the symbol for a phone is a particular Ma Bell model.


OK, I'm pretty sure I said pretty much the same thing in my post, I wasn't confused as to why we still used the disk symbol at all... I mean, you came up with great examples, but I get the impression that you think I was confused...

BTW, the reason the woman is wearing a dress like that is because they wanted something obvious, even if it IS overdone and old fashioned.
 
2013-07-15 12:22:23 AM  

ZAZ: nytmare: What's sadistic is that Microsoft co-opted the key combo from rebooting the PC (a last-ditch function that you don't want to do accidentally), to become a mandatory prerequisite for logging in to the PC (a common function that you always do on purpose) -- essentially the opposite of its original function. TFA doesn't explain why they did this.

I think CTRL-ALT-DEL was implemented in the keyboard controller chip. It could not be diverted by a malicious program. The key combination generates an interrupt and the low level interrupt handler runs. You know you are getting the real OS and not a trojan.


That excuse is bullshiat, because if Windows can trap it, so can anything else.  I remember reading some similar handwave in the Microsoft help with that link on the login screen for Windows 2000 and Windows XP that says something like  How does ALT+CTRL+DEL make Windows more secure? and thinking it was bullshiat back then.  Heck,  init(8) on sysvinit (and probably others) lets you configure how the OS interprets that chord in the unixverse, which pretty much debunks that theory entirely.
 
2013-07-15 12:28:17 AM  

Any Pie Left: I want to meet the guy that created the "print screen" key that never works...

and punch him.

Conversely, want to buy the inventor of the "boss key" a beer.


Takes a screenshot and saves it to a file for me.  Not my fault you're running something brain damaged.
 
2013-07-15 12:28:22 AM  

ZAZ: nytmare: What's sadistic is that Microsoft co-opted the key combo from rebooting the PC (a last-ditch function that you don't want to do accidentally), to become a mandatory prerequisite for logging in to the PC (a common function that you always do on purpose) -- essentially the opposite of its original function. TFA doesn't explain why they did this.

I think CTRL-ALT-DEL was implemented in the keyboard controller chip. It could not be diverted by a malicious program. The key combination generates an interrupt and the low level interrupt handler runs. You know you are getting the real OS and not a trojan.


THIS is the story I remember from MCSE training on NT4.0
 
2013-07-15 12:29:31 AM  

t3knomanser: nytmare: TFA doesn't explain why they did this.

Windows does this because the CTRL+ALT+DEL interrupt can be trapped by the OS  firstand the OS can prevent  any other application from trapping it. This means that CTRL+ALT+DEL will always cause  Windows to take over, and not, say, some malware designed to  look like a Windows logon screen.


Ditto
 
2013-07-15 12:30:50 AM  

cmunic8r99: Shutdown -r -f -t 0


sudo shutdown -rf now is easier to type and won't make you just hit uparrow and sudo it anyway if you're not part of some group that can shutdown.
 
2013-07-15 12:39:19 AM  

noitsnot: Dadoody: [www.dansdata.com image 850x577]

DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?!

This was the sweet one:

[az413224.vo.msecnd.net image 850x567]
Clicky keys that depressed about a half inch and it weighted 50 lbs.


And it was dishwasher safe!  Used to run mine through about once a month when I lived along a dirt road.
 
2013-07-15 12:40:48 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: flaminio: muteidiotsavant: Bonus bonus fact: all the letters in the word "TYPEWRITER" are on the top row, to make it easier for salespeople to demonstrate by typing said word.

Bonus bonus bonus fact: The longest word you can type entirely with your left hand is STEWARDESSES -- which leaves your right hand free for, um, other things.

Approves:

[sexyfeminist.com image 570x300]


Weird what that company became...

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-15 12:41:50 AM  

jestme: No but I've wondered what sadistic bastard thought making the number pad upside-down from the number pad on a phone was a good idea, and why they thought the num lock key should go near the numbers but the parentheses shouldn't.


Better idea would be who thought it would be a good idea to make the number pad on a phone backwards of  every other numeric keypad ever.
 
2013-07-15 12:42:12 AM  

Peki: noitsnot: Dadoody: [www.dansdata.com image 850x577]

DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?!

This was the sweet one:

[az413224.vo.msecnd.net image 850x567]
Clicky keys that depressed about a half inch and it weighted 50 lbs.

Did you ever watch Call For Help, or one of those geek shows on G4 when it was TechTV and actually cool, because I can't remember if it was CFH or the other show, but once they were answering questions about spills on keyboards. Mom and I were both audibly gasped when the hosts took a brownie and mashed it into one of the demo keyboards, because we remember those days of the infinitely sticky 'n' that you didn't dare clean because the water would ruin the circuit board.


Leo and Kate, and the ever delicious Soledad O'Brien with the tech news of the day.

/Didn't see that particular episode, but you *could* run keyboards through the dishwasher as a last resort
// top shelf, no drying cycle
 
2013-07-15 12:45:40 AM  

Fano: By agreement this is the international symbol for woman/man. Precisely where/when were women wearing dresses that looked like this? Doesn't matter. The convention is established.


Yet what does the State Of Califonia require to be on public bathroom doors?  A triangle based sign for men and a round one for women.  I haven't figured out if that was a designer trying to be cute by balancing the triangle in the dress with the round shape or someone who managed to troll millions of people every day.

/# init 5
//# kill -1 -1
///kill them all and let init sort them out
 
2013-07-15 12:47:37 AM  

Mikey1969: Fano: Otherwise the understood symbol for saving would have to be tied to whatever thing the manufacturer would have been using, which would have rapidly evolved from a representation of a 5.25 disk, a 3.5 disk, a zip disc, a cd/dvd, then a usb drive, whatever the usual looks like, then a cloud. Some places it's good to have a constant that you don't have to think about what the meaning is, it's obvious to anyone that has used a computer. In the example of people that never used a 3.5 disk, they still have always had computers that used that symbol to denote saving. It may be an artifact, but it's an establish artifact. Notice the symbol for a phone is a particular Ma Bell model.

OK, I'm pretty sure I said pretty much the same thing in my post, I wasn't confused as to why we still used the disk symbol at all... I mean, you came up with great examples, but I get the impression that you think I was confused...

BTW, the reason the woman is wearing a dress like that is because they wanted something obvious, even if it IS overdone and old fashioned.


I could never figure out why the female symbol only has one leg.  Then I saw the one with two legs from upthread here and my brain went "transgender" and "men" respectively.  Oops.
 
2013-07-15 12:59:42 AM  

ZAZ: I think CTRL-ALT-DEL was implemented in the keyboard controller chip. It could not be diverted by a malicious program. The key combination generates an interrupt and the low level interrupt handler runs. You know you are getting the real OS and not a trojan.


An original PC has two major chips involved in keyboard processing.  They were both based on the 8051 and the keyboard one would scan the keyboard and send serial clocked data down the line.  On a PC (pre XT) keyboard, pin 3 was a hard reset that was hooked to I think the NMI which couldn't be interrupted at all.  There wasn't any communication back to the those keyboards so things like the shift lock light was controlled entirely by the keyboard.  On the XT keyboard they changed it so that it screwed up the clock and data signal when you pressed ctrl-alt-delete and later keyboards just sent a key code saying that it had been sent.  The 8051 like cpu in the later PCs would look at those signals and then trigger an interrupt line but they were maskable and could be overridden by anything that cared to stick an address in the interrupt vector table.  Modern hardware uses so many shared interrupts (and message interrupts) that who knows what gets to see the signal first but it won't be one of the main cpus.
 
2013-07-15 01:08:25 AM  

DON.MAC: Yet what does the State Of Califonia require to be on public bathroom doors?  A triangle based sign for men and a round one for women.  I haven't figured out if that was a designer trying to be cute by balancing the triangle in the dress with the round shape or someone who managed to troll millions of people every day.


I see you've never made a family tree.
 
2013-07-15 01:28:53 AM  

Mikey1969: Fano: Otherwise the understood symbol for saving would have to be tied to whatever thing the manufacturer would have been using, which would have rapidly evolved from a representation of a 5.25 disk, a 3.5 disk, a zip disc, a cd/dvd, then a usb drive, whatever the usual looks like, then a cloud. Some places it's good to have a constant that you don't have to think about what the meaning is, it's obvious to anyone that has used a computer. In the example of people that never used a 3.5 disk, they still have always had computers that used that symbol to denote saving. It may be an artifact, but it's an establish artifact. Notice the symbol for a phone is a particular Ma Bell model.

OK, I'm pretty sure I said pretty much the same thing in my post, I wasn't confused as to why we still used the disk symbol at all... I mean, you came up with great examples, but I get the impression that you think I was confused...

BTW, the reason the woman is wearing a dress like that is because they wanted something obvious, even if it IS overdone and old fashioned.


I didn't think you were confused, I just wanted to pile on, and your post gave a good reference point for the debate. The "you" I used in the post was for a general reader. I apologize. I just felt it was a point that needed underlining so that younger tech savvy people would understand why universal symbols don't change rapidly to fit technology. I thought the bathroom symbol was an excellent example of something that doesn't really fit a worldwide timeless dress code but still gets the point understandably to anyone.
 
2013-07-15 01:30:56 AM  

DON.MAC: Fano: By agreement this is the international symbol for woman/man. Precisely where/when were women wearing dresses that looked like this? Doesn't matter. The convention is established.

Yet what does the State Of Califonia require to be on public bathroom doors?  A triangle based sign for men and a round one for women.  I haven't figured out if that was a designer trying to be cute by balancing the triangle in the dress with the round shape or someone who managed to troll millions of people every day.

/# init 5
//# kill -1 -1
///kill them all and let init sort them out


Men are rational, Women are irrational? Is that the statement California wants to make?
 
2013-07-15 01:34:19 AM  

Fano: Mikey1969: Fano: Otherwise the understood symbol for saving would have to be tied to whatever thing the manufacturer would have been using, which would have rapidly evolved from a representation of a 5.25 disk, a 3.5 disk, a zip disc, a cd/dvd, then a usb drive, whatever the usual looks like, then a cloud. Some places it's good to have a constant that you don't have to think about what the meaning is, it's obvious to anyone that has used a computer. In the example of people that never used a 3.5 disk, they still have always had computers that used that symbol to denote saving. It may be an artifact, but it's an establish artifact. Notice the symbol for a phone is a particular Ma Bell model.

OK, I'm pretty sure I said pretty much the same thing in my post, I wasn't confused as to why we still used the disk symbol at all... I mean, you came up with great examples, but I get the impression that you think I was confused...

BTW, the reason the woman is wearing a dress like that is because they wanted something obvious, even if it IS overdone and old fashioned.

I didn't think you were confused, I just wanted to pile on, and your post gave a good reference point for the debate. The "you" I used in the post was for a general reader. I apologize. I just felt it was a point that needed underlining so that younger tech savvy people would understand why universal symbols don't change rapidly to fit technology. I thought the bathroom symbol was an excellent example of something that doesn't really fit a worldwide timeless dress code but still gets the point understandably to anyone.


Fair enough... I was a little confused there...

Like I said, those were great examples.
 
2013-07-15 01:46:55 AM  

Baloo Uriza: jestme: No but I've wondered what sadistic bastard thought making the number pad upside-down from the number pad on a phone was a good idea, and why they thought the num lock key should go near the numbers but the parentheses shouldn't.

Better idea would be who thought it would be a good idea to make the number pad on a phone backwards of  every other numeric keypad ever.


I like the way you think.
 
2013-07-15 02:14:37 AM  

noitsnot: Any time you run into an "interesting fact" that seems counter-intuitive, you should check it. It's probably just wrong.


As someone who has repeatedly jammed typewriters by typing too fast it doesn't seem counter-intuitive to me that they would need to slow typists down.  And I was a kid then, I'm sure adults were faster.

/Oh the pain of not quite reaching the upper row and getting your pinkie finger jammed in the keys
 
2013-07-15 02:20:01 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: FTA "Because Apple and RadioShack were already selling small stand-alone computers:"

Ahh the usual revisionism. Atari? Commodore?


Not to mention the fact the Tandy 1000 was a clone of the PCjr.
 
2013-07-15 04:53:18 AM  

Baloo Uriza: cmunic8r99: Shutdown -r -f -t 0

sudo shutdown -rf now is easier to type and won't make you just hit uparrow and sudo it anyway if you're not part of some group that can shutdown.


Not on a Windows box.
 
2013-07-15 08:19:08 AM  

Baloo Uriza: cmunic8r99: Shutdown -r -f -t 0

sudo shutdown -rf now is easier to type and won't make you just hit uparrow and sudo it anyway if you're not part of some group that can shutdown.


what if your part of wheel
 
2013-07-15 09:40:39 AM  
i15.photobucket.com

From:
IBM DOS 1.1 May82 (Big book that came with the IBM PC...)
 
2013-07-15 09:57:01 AM  

sammyk: ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

I had a Mac application which popped up two dialog windows at the same time. You couldn't select either or dismiss either, and Macs refuse to shut down while a dialog is active.

Why is that unfortunate? A hard boot only adds a hardware test to the boot sequence. Do you really need to do that? I would think testing my memory should be a rare thing. If it's that important I'm going to use ECC and have it alert me for failures any way.


I Have servers i support that have 256gb ram and 80 cores. Takes 20+ minutes to boot if i let it do a full post. Needless to say downtime is hard to get and i want to minimize it any way i can. Including any hardware testing i can since i have Tivoli monitoring it any way.


Never expected to see Tivoli in a fark thread...

I've been working with it for 10+ years, my team does OS/Application monitoring...
 
2013-07-15 10:38:20 AM  
tech museum in san jose sucks
 
2013-07-15 10:59:03 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: flaminio: "Save" just needs to die as a concept. Documents should always be saved, with proper versioning. No icon needed; problem solved.

That's what I think too. I'm baffled by the concept of manual saving when you can shuffle megabytes around in a millisecond. Sure, back in the Commodore 64 days, with un-accelerated 1541s, you could brew some tea and maybe bake a tray of cookies while you save a few pages of text. You had to hedge your bets, is the power going to fail or should I save?

I also find it ludicrous that I can open a notepad in windows, type one letter, and have the entire 64 bit OS screech to a halt when I want to shut it down because it asks the asinine question of where to put the file?

Anywhere. How about that?

It's not like any other piece of software these days cares about storage limits.


Word sort of does that today. If you kill it without saving it will have versions of whatever you might have lost waiting when you restart it. OneNote, interestingly, has never had any form of save in any version I've used, although I only started using it a fewish years back. Even today it feels weird not to have to save in OneNote.
 
2013-07-15 11:28:00 AM  

ZAZ: Unfortunately operating systems these days favor soft reset/shutdown. You have to negotiate with the system to convince it to turn off. Or you have to resort to the 5 second power button press and full power up slowness which the reset chord was meant to avoid.

I had a Mac application which popped up two dialog windows at the same time. You couldn't select either or dismiss either, and Macs refuse to shut down while a dialog is active.


Not sure if you know this but Macs have their "three fingered salute" for dealing with those situations and it works quite well; hit command, option, and escape.
 
2013-07-15 11:39:01 AM  

cmunic8r99: Baloo Uriza: cmunic8r99: Shutdown -r -f -t 0

sudo shutdown -rf now is easier to type and won't make you just hit uparrow and sudo it anyway if you're not part of some group that can shutdown.

Not on a Windows box.


They don't count/matter.  Figure out POSIX or GTFO out already.
 
2013-07-15 11:41:22 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: Baloo Uriza: cmunic8r99: Shutdown -r -f -t 0

sudo shutdown -rf now is easier to type and won't make you just hit uparrow and sudo it anyway if you're not part of some group that can shutdown.

what if your part of wheel


Then sudo is kind of redundant/won't prompt for password.
 
2013-07-15 02:49:39 PM  

I Like Shiny Things: Because People in power are Stupid: Ctl-Alt-Del isn't sadistic -it's cryptic.

Just because it seems obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to my 65 year old neighbor lady.

"Do you work with computers?" I've heard it a thousand times. When I go and examine their computers there are two tools: Ctl-Alt-Del and MSCONFIG that tell me everything I need to know.

Thats funny. You just used a sentence that tried to imply you know something about computers...and that sentence contained MSCONFIG.

Know how I know that you are a complete moron?

No, you obviously don't.


Hi Troll!

From a website telling you how and why not to use it:  http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=149804">http://forums.m ajorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=149804

"MSconfig was designed to be used only as a temporary debugging/troubleshooting tool"

Which was exactly how I said I was using it. So please go ahead and say something else stupid.
 
2013-07-15 02:53:41 PM  

Baloo Uriza: cmunic8r99: Baloo Uriza: cmunic8r99: Shutdown -r -f -t 0

sudo shutdown -rf now is easier to type and won't make you just hit uparrow and sudo it anyway if you're not part of some group that can shutdown.

Not on a Windows box.

They don't count/matter.  Figure out POSIX or GTFO out already.


They don't count/matter to you, maybe. Besides, you're the one that tried to correct syntax on the Windows commands.
 
2013-07-15 05:35:59 PM  

ultraholland: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: Safe yourself a step. Ctrl+Alt+Esc opens Task Manager directly without going to that other screen.

not mine; goes straight to task manager.


You have my sympathies that you are using a version of Windows that probably has "Home" in its name.
 
2013-07-15 06:59:37 PM  
David Bradley,...

David W. Bradley..?

The guy who took over the programming at Sir Tech?

The Guy who took the Wizardry series to about number 7, Gold even?

Most of the people here would not have been in nappies when the name was part of a great Game series.

He invented CTRL ALT DEL. I knew he was a great programmer, especially in my wasted youth.
 
2013-07-15 10:16:35 PM  
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