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(Army Times)   Sgt. Bales, the killer of 16 Afghan civilians, had been issued a malaria drug not supposed to be used by those with traumatic brain injury (which Bales had) lest it cause homicidal episodes   (armytimes.com) divider line 99
    More: Followup, Afghans, killer, Afghan civilians, mental health disorders, McLean Hospital, foia requests, biological psychiatry, Robert Bales  
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6736 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 1:00 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-14 10:44:19 AM
"He admitted to using steroids, which can cause aggression and violence."

This soldier was a walking time bomb. We punish service people for asking for help if they have PTSD and ignore all of the danger they and those around them experience directly from that condition instead of treating it like a health crisis. Add on top traumatic brain injuries and the drugs (prescribed and not) that are all too common, and frankly it's surprising we don't have more incidents like this.

It's insanely depressing.
 
2013-07-14 11:01:29 AM
I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.
 
2013-07-14 11:49:49 AM

Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.


I think it's safe to say when anyone goes on a sixteen person killing spree it's a bit of a mental health issue.  It certainly isn't something right-thinking people do.  Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...
 
2013-07-14 01:03:27 PM

PhiloeBedoe: Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.

I think it's safe to say when anyone goes on a sixteen person killing spree it's a bit of a mental health issue.  It certainly isn't something right-thinking people do.  Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...


Well said.
 
2013-07-14 01:03:44 PM

Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.


Maybe a guy with a mental health issue looking for a little payback?  I dont claim to understand the trauma the mind goes through in war on top of having traumatic brain injury but I just dont see doing that and not having some underlying urge that pushed him to that point that what ever his mental state that would normally form a barrier allowed him to slip past
 
2013-07-14 01:04:39 PM
If he had a traumatic brain injury, why was he issued a weapon?
 
2013-07-14 01:06:27 PM
You know who can help this guy? Zimmerman
 
2013-07-14 01:09:17 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: If he had a traumatic brain injury, why was he issued a weapon?


THIS. Seems he should have rotated out....
 
2013-07-14 01:09:27 PM

elffster: You know who can help this guy? Zimmerman


Doe he need to gain weight?
 
2013-07-14 01:09:31 PM
Wasn't that drug side effect covered in a cracked article some time ago?
 
2013-07-14 01:11:01 PM

PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...


If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.
 
2013-07-14 01:12:11 PM
I doubt the Afghans upset at American troops for murdering their families are going to buy this story...
 
2013-07-14 01:12:45 PM
I travel to malaria endemic areas fairly frequently.  I have basically two choices for malaria prophylactics -- malarone and mefloquine.  Or, as a fellow traveler once put it, the one that kills your stomach or the one that makes you hallucinate.  She was taking mefloquine and regularly hallucinated rats.  I tried it and had some seriously vivid and freaky dreams.  Luckily, malarone doesn't bother my stomach all that much and that has been my drug of choice since.  The problem is that it is a daily tablet vs mefloquine, which is weekly.  I find that a daily schedule actually helps me to take it regularly, though I can see in a combat area that a weekly dose would be more convenient.

It would never occur to me to give mefloquine to someone who is already one beer short of a sixpack.
 
2013-07-14 01:13:37 PM

PhiloeBedoe: Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.

I think it's safe to say when anyone goes on a sixteen person killing spree it's a bit of a mental health issue.  It certainly isn't something right-thinking people do.  Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...


Before he enlisted in the Army, he was an investment broker who was accused of looting the accounts of his clients, mostly elderly retirees.

His moral compass was farked long before the Army got its hands on him.
 
2013-07-14 01:13:49 PM

PhiloeBedoe: Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.

I think it's safe to say when anyone goes on a sixteen person killing spree it's a bit of a mental health issue.  It certainly isn't something right-thinking people do.  Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...


Well, when the US federal government creates such a murderous piece of sh*the, hands him a gun, and returns him to combat... You can't ignore the role played by the US government.

Is this man guilty of a killing spree? Yeah but he certainly had help.
 
2013-07-14 01:15:49 PM

Popcorn Johnny: PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...
If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.


Ditto. It's Trauma, a disorder, a mental health issue, and a known psychoactive effect of a medication.  I can't lay blame on the soldier here.  The blame lies in the military institution that ignored the dangers and welfare of it's members and let the situation progress to this point.
 
2013-07-14 01:16:03 PM
Jesus, if that's true, that's seriously farked up.

Should have just given him some gin and tonics....
 
2013-07-14 01:16:09 PM

Popcorn Johnny: PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...

If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.


Now now, it's not like you wouldn't take his side regardless.
 
2013-07-14 01:21:28 PM
I had a bad PTSD day yesterday. First time I've encountered the "why should I subject my loved ones to behaviour I can't control" line of thinking.

Anyone who doesn't have compassion for everyone involved is ignorant, not malicious.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:46 PM
"Bales told the judge in his case, Col. Jeffery Nance, that he does not remember setting fire to several bodies during his rampage. "

Uh huh, the Lunesta defense I see.
 
2013-07-14 01:23:10 PM

Sgt Otter: PhiloeBedoe: Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.

I think it's safe to say when anyone goes on a sixteen person killing spree it's a bit of a mental health issue.  It certainly isn't something right-thinking people do.  Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...

Before he enlisted in the Army, he was an investment broker who was accused of looting the accounts of his clients, mostly elderly retirees.

His moral compass was farked long before the Army got its hands on him.


Yeah, straw that broke the camel's back. Camel had a bad back to begin with.

So end result, ya got a broken camel. Deal with broken camel as you would deal with any other broken camel.
 
2013-07-14 01:24:36 PM
Wasn't this an episode on Law & Order?
 
2013-07-14 01:27:29 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Popcorn Johnny: PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...

If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.

Now now, it's not like you wouldn't take his side regardless


please, if it was some kid who grew up in some inner city war zone here in the u.s. would you be so willing to give him a pass? no? because we have to honor the troops no matter what war crimes they commit.
 
2013-07-14 01:27:38 PM

Peki: I had a bad PTSD day yesterday. First time I've encountered the "why should I subject my loved ones to behaviour I can't control" line of thinking.

Anyone who doesn't have compassion for everyone involved is ignorant, not malicious.


Kitten hugs?

/That sucks, hope you feel better today.
 
2013-07-14 01:28:16 PM
Hold on a minute.  He joined the military (as so many do) to go to foreign lands and kill people.  The US military trained him to do so.  The US government paid him to do so.

And now that he's lived up to expectations, people are pissed?
 
2013-07-14 01:29:45 PM
There must be a way to pin this on medical marijuana.
 
2013-07-14 01:30:18 PM

juddcc: PhiloeBedoe: Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.

I think it's safe to say when anyone goes on a sixteen person killing spree it's a bit of a mental health issue.  It certainly isn't something right-thinking people do.  Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...

Well said.


No, it's not well said at all.  It's incredibly badly said.

Someone who is mentally ill is not criminally responsible.  That's not to say that someone who is a danger to others shouldn't be held in a secure mental health facility, but to hold someone criminally responsible for mental illness would be like outlawing baldness and jailing cancer patients.
 
2013-07-14 01:31:01 PM

PsiChick: Peki: I had a bad PTSD day yesterday. First time I've encountered the "why should I subject my loved ones to behaviour I can't control" line of thinking.

Anyone who doesn't have compassion for everyone involved is ignorant, not malicious.

Kitten hugs?

/That sucks, hope you feel better today.


That was awesome.  I also find kitten cams quite relaxing, although on my favorites the kittens are older and often not in view of the camera.
 
2013-07-14 01:32:17 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: If he had a traumatic brain injury, why was he issued a weapon?


Well, duh!

www.michaeltotten.com

Hint...it was real. Not a 'shop. Not fake. Real.
 
2013-07-14 01:33:04 PM

George_Spelvin: Hold on a minute.  He joined the military (as so many do) to go to foreign lands and kill people.  The US military trained him to do so.  The US government paid him to do so.

And now that he's lived up to expectations, people are pissed?


See he's supposed to do it under orders.

Love the double standard everyone seems  to have in North America. I see it in Canada too.

So-and-so committed a crime because he was mentally ill: they were faking it/should have taken their meds/still understood right from wrong
They were a soldier: we need to have more compassion/they didn't understand what they were doing
 
2013-07-14 01:35:04 PM

PsiChick: Peki: I had a bad PTSD day yesterday. First time I've encountered the "why should I subject my loved ones to behaviour I can't control" line of thinking.

Anyone who doesn't have compassion for everyone involved is ignorant, not malicious.

Kitten hugs?

/That sucks, hope you feel better today.


Oh damn. There are some really cute pics in that link.

/don't tell anyone I said something was cute. i'll deny it ;)
 
2013-07-14 01:36:47 PM
They should of prescribed one joint taken 2 times daily.
 
2013-07-14 01:37:31 PM

macadamnut: There must be a way to pin this on medical marijuana.


You'd need some rape and white wimmen for that.
 
2013-07-14 01:37:32 PM

tiiger: Popcorn Johnny: PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...
If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.

Ditto. It's Trauma, a disorder, a mental health issue, and a known psychoactive effect of a medication.  I can't lay blame on the soldier here.  The blame lies in the military institution that ignored the dangers and welfare of it's members and let the situation progress to this point.


Unfortunately there a lot of people who do not take mental illness seriously. They don't understand that a mental illness is like any other illness. The difference is that usual illness stops people from performing act while mental illness might cause people to perform acts, that's why mentally ill people were often thought to be possessed by demons.

It is somehow not self evident for everyone that problems with the brain, the organ that define who we are and what we do, govern people's action. Some people are more comfortable believing that their self is something abstract, what some religions call the soul, instead of something physical that can malfunction.
 
2013-07-14 01:37:58 PM
Why can't we all just get along and have a nice clean war where nobody gets hurt and pretty ancient architecture doesn't get damaged, but which allows the 1% to get their paws on another economic boon that they so richly deserve...cuz they said please to the right politicians?
 
2013-07-14 01:40:05 PM
We should be focused on more important things like finding the traitor who leaked this story.
 
2013-07-14 01:40:30 PM

PsiChick: Peki: I had a bad PTSD day yesterday. First time I've encountered the "why should I subject my loved ones to behaviour I can't control" line of thinking.

Anyone who doesn't have compassion for everyone involved is ignorant, not malicious.

Kitten hugs?

/That sucks, hope you feel better today.


That was awesome, except I have no tissues, so I had to grab a roll of toilet paper.

/wishes the hormones were such that she got angry instead of weepy, but it is what it is

And yes, today is better. Thank you. :)
 
2013-07-14 01:42:52 PM

Deep Contact: They should of prescribed one joint taken 2 times daily.


Just make sure it's the right stuff. The wrong strain makes it worse (part of why yesterday was bad).
 
2013-07-14 01:44:30 PM

Popcorn Johnny: PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...

If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.


Defending him is the right thing to do if the army prescribed medication is responsible for the actions.
 
2013-07-14 01:45:32 PM

KimNorth: Wasn't this an episode on Law & Order?


SVU, yeah, but damned if I can't remember it well enough to tell you which one.
 
2013-07-14 01:45:32 PM

George_Spelvin: Hold on a minute.  He joined the military (as so many do) to go to foreign lands and kill people.  The US military trained him to do so.  The US government paid him to do so.

And now that he's lived up to expectations, people are pissed?


Actually, he joined the army to get away from a mob of cane shaking retirees, who he had stolen money from.
 
2013-07-14 01:45:44 PM

Popcorn Johnny: I knew the minute I heard about this guy that it was a mental health issue and not just some soldier looking for a little payback.


Well you do seem really smart, so I'm not surprised.
 
2013-07-14 01:45:58 PM

Peki: Deep Contact: They should of prescribed one joint taken 2 times daily.

Just make sure it's the right stuff. The wrong strain makes it worse (part of why yesterday was bad).


Yeah, I was thinking back in the 70's again.
 
2013-07-14 01:47:11 PM

rumpelstiltskin: George_Spelvin: Hold on a minute.  He joined the military (as so many do) to go to foreign lands and kill people.  The US military trained him to do so.  The US government paid him to do so.

And now that he's lived up to expectations, people are pissed?

Actually, he joined the army to get away from a mob of cane shaking retirees, who he had stolen money from.


Yep. This guy was damaged way before this event occurred.
 
2013-07-14 01:47:30 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-14 01:47:50 PM

knight_on_the_rail: Well you do seem really smart, so I'm not surprised.


You seem upset.
 
2013-07-14 01:48:21 PM

ginandbacon: "He admitted to using steroids, which can cause aggression and violence."

This soldier was a walking time bomb. We punish service people for asking for help if they have PTSD and ignore all of the danger they and those around them experience directly from that condition instead of treating it like a health crisis. Add on top traumatic brain injuries and the drugs (prescribed and not) that are all too common, and frankly it's surprising we don't have more incidents like this.

It's insanely depressing.


Here's how it works in the military (and sadly, a lot of American's, as well):

Have a physical injury that we can see? Don't you worry none. We'll do what we can to help you recover.  Here's some medical, some physical training to help in recovery.  We'll get you back right so you can keep on working.

Have a mental injury/issue or a physical injury that we can't see? What the fark is wrong with you? Stop complaining, you piece of shiat dirtbag, and get back to work.  Buck up like the man you are and stop being such a lazy do-nothing shiatbag.

I was in the army, and I've seen it time and time again.  One of my friends got shocked from electricity; in one hand and out the other.  He had serious back problems after that.  But because no one could physically see the back problems, and because the burn marks on his hands had healed, the army treated him like a lazy piece of shiat dirtbag. They believed he faked the injury to get out of work, and our leadership wouldn't allow him to get medical help for his back.

Another friend of mine killed a guy in Afghanistan at close range with a 50 cal.  You ever see what a 50 cal does to a person? It ain't pretty.  Those guns are designed to take out vehicles and buildings, not individuals.  The guy he killed was being taken prisoner, and my friend saw the guy move/twitch his hand in such a way that my friend thought he was signaling others to attack.  He instantly pulled the trigger of his gun, because he thought he was saving the lives of the men in his unit.  Turns out it was nothing. My friend has been torn over this for years (this happened back in 05 or 06).  He thinks himself a murderer, and it tears him apart.  He has serious PTSD, self confidence issues (how can he call himself a good man when he murdered this guy), and multiple other mental issues from this incident (including thoughts of suicide). The army doesn't care.  He received no mental health for the remainder of his year long tour in Afghanistan.  When he got back to the states, he friends and family (myself included) convinced him to get medical help. He did.  Once he started getting mental health, his unit started giving him all the shiat jobs.  They sent him to Iraq three months later, and refused to give him his medication for depression. After another year in Iraq, we managed to convince him to pick up his mental health care again.  His sergeant did whatever he could to make sure he didn't get mental health, from denying him a vehicle to get to his doctor, not allowing him to leave formation or work, giving him work after hours, and punishing him for daring to need any sort of medication.  Meanwhile, all this was wrecking havoc on his physical health and his diet, and he started going over weight (this guy is 6'4", full of muscle, with a nice layer of fat around it). Despite the fact that he could outperform most of the other guys in his unit on the PT test, he failed his weight test. His sergeant, lieutenant, and captain were all trying to find a way to dishonorably discharge him, and they were using his weight to try to do it.  I have no idea what happened after that, because I haven't spoken to him in years.  That was where he was at the last time I talked to him, about 4 years ago.

I have tons of these stories from guys I knew while I was in the military, and from meeting other veterans after the military.

The military hates mental health issues.  You are weak, pathetic, and don't deserve to be in the military if you dare to have a health problem that we can't physically see.

And it doesn't surprise me in the least that his Sgt. Bales is being treated the same way, both in the military and by people outside of the military.
 
2013-07-14 01:51:33 PM

Peki: PsiChick: Peki: I had a bad PTSD day yesterday. First time I've encountered the "why should I subject my loved ones to behaviour I can't control" line of thinking.

Anyone who doesn't have compassion for everyone involved is ignorant, not malicious.

Kitten hugs?

/That sucks, hope you feel better today.

That was awesome, except I have no tissues, so I had to grab a roll of toilet paper.

/wishes the hormones were such that she got angry instead of weepy, but it is what it is

And yes, today is better. Thank you. :)


Yay! :) And yeah, hormones suck ass.

talkertopc: tiiger: Popcorn Johnny: PhiloeBedoe: Don't apologize for this murderous piece of sh*t...
If it turns out he was indeed mentally ill, you're goddamn right I'm taking his side.

Ditto. It's Trauma, a disorder, a mental health issue, and a known psychoactive effect of a medication.  I can't lay blame on the soldier here.  The blame lies in the military institution that ignored the dangers and welfare of it's members and let the situation progress to this point.

Unfortunately there a lot of people who do not take mental illness seriously. They don't understand that a mental illness is like any other illness. The difference is that usual illness stops people from performing act while mental illness might cause people to perform acts, that's why mentally ill people were often thought to be possessed by demons.

It is somehow not self evident for everyone that problems with the brain, the organ that define who we are and what we do, govern people's action. Some people are more comfortable believing that their self is something abstract, what some religions call the soul, instead of something physical that can malfunction.


To be fair, I believe I have a soul  and I'm mentally ill (bipolar); in most theologies the soul is not what creates our Earthly thoughts, it's more like our essence of being. The soul doesn't create thoughts like 'I want chicken wings'. That's our brains. So our brains farking up really isn't a soul farking up, it's just that your soul got put in a slightly-dented container.

/Which can be fun when your brain makes you high off your ass for no reason
//And is far less fun other times
 
2013-07-14 01:53:06 PM
After all the Gulf War Sickness from the 1st invasion, it's almost surprising folks still sign up to be military guinne pigs. There's a congressional report out there somewhere.

Ah, here it is:

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/arison/banking.htm

Also interesting is the "dual use" materials we were shipping to Iraq.

Anyway, soldiers greeting used up like this by daddy war bucks is Just business as usual.
 
2013-07-14 01:53:16 PM
Bales is accused of leaving his remote base in southern Afghanistan twice in one night to go on killing sprees in two nearby villages. Most of the victims were women and children, and some of the bodies were burned after the massacre.

Read more:  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/army-staff-sgt-robert-bales-ple a ds-guilty-murder-article-1.1363936#ixzz2Z2kVEMaq
 
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