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(Daily Kos)   It's okay that the NSA spies on us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust them to do the right thing   (dailykos.com) divider line 137
    More: Unlikely, Democrat Party, NSA, due process clause, collective action, Louis Brandeis, public inquiry, Freudian slip, spy  
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1799 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jul 2013 at 9:22 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-14 07:39:09 AM
Did  Subbyand I read the same article?
 
2013-07-14 07:45:02 AM
I disagree.  It is not okay that the NSA spies on us because there is a Democrat in office.  We cannot trust them to do the right thing.  I think it is only okay if the NSA spies on us when there is a Republican in office.  We know we can always trust them to do the right thing.
 
2013-07-14 08:02:52 AM

ginandbacon: Did Subbyand I read the same article?


Skip ahead to this bit, I guess:

"A vibrant and capable national government does not require an erosion of our liberty and privacy rights as we commonly understand the terms. Our liberty right does not mean we are free from taxation. To the contrary, a vibrant government is essential to maintaining those rights. Is restricting gun rights a restriction on our liberty? I think so. But on balance, I think it is the correct policy and consistent with the Constitution."

The writer is farking high if he thinks we've had a vibrant and capable national government at any time in the post-Vietnam era, or even earlier. Churchill was right about us doing the right thing only after we've farked things up nine ways from Sunday - a farking-up process that is far from over, thanks to the two-party monopoly.
 
2013-07-14 08:03:59 AM

Mike_LowELL: I disagree.  It is not okay that the NSA spies on us because there is a Democrat in office.  We cannot trust them to do the right thing.  I think it is only okay if the NSA spies on us when there is a Republican in office.  We know we can always trust them to do the right thing.


Would have been better if you said "once we get a Libertarian in office" but that's just my opinion, man.
 
2013-07-14 08:25:38 AM
Daily Kos is still a thing?
 
2013-07-14 08:32:31 AM

Gulper Eel: The writer is farking high if he thinks we've had a vibrant and capable national government at any time in the post-Vietnam era, or even earlier.


I don't think the author is saying that we have a vibrant and capable national government but that he/she wants a vibrant and capable national government, and that having one doesn't require us to give up our freedoms.
 
2013-07-14 09:26:21 AM
Projection. Because the average Republican had no problem with what Bush was doing regarding spying, they now don't think the average Democrat has a problem with what Obama is doing.
 
2013-07-14 09:27:47 AM
It's OK that subby lies to us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust him to fundamentally not understand polysyllabic words presented to him in article format.
 
2013-07-14 09:31:02 AM
the NSA has been spying on us since the NSA came into existence. if you think otherwise, you're deluded.
 
2013-07-14 09:32:39 AM

LarryDan43: Projection. Because the average Republican had no problem with what Bush was doing regarding spying, they now don't think the average Democrat has a problem with what Obama is doing.


Exactly.
 
2013-07-14 09:33:53 AM
Don't worry, eventually, there will be a Republican president again, and all the Republicans will go back to loving the NSA, especially if they spy on OWS and Negroes.
 
2013-07-14 09:33:56 AM
I trust a Democrat more than I trust a Republican, but since I don't trust either of them all that much, it's not saying anything.
 
2013-07-14 09:35:04 AM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Daily Kos is still a thing?


FOX news is still a thing? Newsmax is still a thing?


/At least KOS is factually accurate, as opposed to just making shiat up.
 
2013-07-14 09:46:08 AM
The Democratic Party is pretty much a party of criminals and perverts at this stage.
 
2013-07-14 09:46:27 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's OK that subby lies to us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust him to fundamentally not understand polysyllabic words presented to him in article format.


You know who else lied? Benghazi.
 
2013-07-14 09:48:37 AM
Honestly not trolling, but saw this:

Since that day(Sept 11, 2001- AC63), over 300,000 Americans have died from guns.

Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.

/ONE unnecessary death by guns is too many
 
2013-07-14 09:49:29 AM

Pichu0102: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's OK that subby lies to us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust him to fundamentally not understand polysyllabic words presented to him in article format.

You know who else lied? Benghazi.


OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?
 
2013-07-14 09:50:03 AM
u mean there's no robotic ants with video cameras when a Republican is in often?  WHY THE HELL NOT!!
 
2013-07-14 09:50:36 AM

ghare: IamKaiserSoze!!!: Daily Kos is still a thing?

FOX news is still a thing? Newsmax is still a thing?


/At least KOS is factually accurate, as opposed to just making shiat up.


LOL,  Holy shiat that is funny.
 
2013-07-14 09:50:56 AM
It's ok. Reading is hard, Submittroll. Congratulations on your "Democrat Party" tag.
 
2013-07-14 09:52:36 AM

AtlanticCoast63: Honestly not trolling, but saw this:

Since that day(Sept 11, 2001- AC63), over 300,000 Americans have died from guns.

Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.

/ONE unnecessary death by guns is too many


*shrugs* more than that have died in car crashes
 
2013-07-14 09:52:37 AM
Daily KOS?  No clicks for the Brietfart of the left wing, thanks.
 
2013-07-14 09:55:59 AM

AdamK: AtlanticCoast63: Honestly not trolling, but saw this:

Since that day(Sept 11, 2001- AC63), over 300,000 Americans have died from guns.

Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.

/ONE unnecessary death by guns is too many

*shrugs* more than that have died in car crashes


The US averages about 30,000 firearm deaths per year  and is generally below the number from car accidents.  That number includes suicide, accidents, etc.
 
2013-07-14 09:57:46 AM

ghare: Don't worry, eventually, there will be a Republican president again, and all the Republicans will go back to loving the NSA, especially if they spy on OWS and Negroes.


I see the 'Smart' and 'Funny' buttons ...whar 'Stupid' button, whar
 
2013-07-14 09:59:42 AM

ginandbacon: Did  Subbyand I read the same article?


We all know how those liberals are the first to implement draconian fascist methods
 
2013-07-14 10:00:10 AM
Mmmmmmno, I don't think so. But anyone who paid attention to Obama's voting record should have known he was no fan of civil liberties.

/Sadly, he was still better than the opposition
 
2013-07-14 10:00:42 AM
OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That gets me EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!! It's just so farking funny how Obama just left Americans to die at the hands of the Islamist horde and didn't lift a finger to even try to save them. Cracks me up EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

As for the KOS article, the author never really formed a case for his viewpoint. Just stated outright what he *thought* was right. Well, he's wrong. Next?
 
2013-07-14 10:06:43 AM

AtlanticCoast63: Honestly not trolling, but saw this:

Since that day(Sept 11, 2001- AC63), over 300,000 Americans have died from guns.

Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.

/ONE unnecessary death by guns is too many

api.ning.com
The 30K / year for a decade gun deaths number is correct.  This includes about 11K homicides, and 19K suicides annually.  Car crashes are higher, but only marginally, at 34K per year in the US.
 
2013-07-14 10:07:23 AM

LeoffDaGrate: Pichu0102: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's OK that subby lies to us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust him to fundamentally not understand polysyllabic words presented to him in article format.

You know who else lied? Benghazi.

OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?


He's the delivery guy for the felafel shop the White House calls on nights where they have to work late, but he's always "forgetting" to include the extra tzatziki sauce
 
2013-07-14 10:10:34 AM

jim32rr: ghare: Don't worry, eventually, there will be a Republican president again, and all the Republicans will go back to loving the NSA, especially if they spy on OWS and Negroes.

I see the 'Smart' and 'Funny' buttons ...whar 'Stupid' button, whar


The only thing stupid about it is that the Obama administration has worked hand in hand with the big banks to spy on Occupy protesters. Not like a Republican would be any better though.
 
2013-07-14 10:15:02 AM

Pichu0102: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's OK that subby lies to us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust him to fundamentally not understand polysyllabic words presented to him in article format.

You know who else lied? Benghazi.


encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

You... called?
 
2013-07-14 10:16:12 AM

mark12A: OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That gets me EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!! It's just so farking funny how Obama just left Americans to die at the hands of the Islamist horde and didn't lift a finger to even try to save them. Cracks me up EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

As for the KOS article, the author never really formed a case for his viewpoint. Just stated outright what he *thought* was right. Well, he's wrong. Next?


You do realize that there were considerably more attacks on embassies, and more embassy personnel killed, under the Bush administration, right? Thirteen attacks, not counting the ones in Iraq.
 
2013-07-14 10:16:41 AM

LectertheChef: jim32rr: ghare: Don't worry, eventually, there will be a Republican president again, and all the Republicans will go back to loving the NSA, especially if they spy on OWS and Negroes.

I see the 'Smart' and 'Funny' buttons ...whar 'Stupid' button, whar

The only thing stupid about it is that the Obama administration has worked hand in hand with the big banks to spy on Occupy protesters. Not like a Republican would be any better though.


http://www.law360.com/articles/453071/chevron-wins-access-to-email-i nf o-in-ecuador-pollution-row

The state of your privacy is much worse than you think. Even post-Obama, the courts are basically ruling that companies are super-people... they get privacy... but such wonderful things are not guaranteed to mere citizens.
 
2013-07-14 10:19:33 AM

AtlanticCoast63: Honestly not trolling, but saw this:

Since that day(Sept 11, 2001- AC63), over 300,000 Americans have died from guns.

Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.

/ONE unnecessary death by guns is too many


It is pretty basic math, we get about 32k gun deaths a year, and 9/11/01 was more than ten years ago.

/the statistic is a bit... unfair though, I mean if two homicidal guys both have guns and a drug deal goes bad and one shoots the other, it's not necessarily fair to say he died because of the gun.
 
2013-07-14 10:33:10 AM
No its not.
 
2013-07-14 10:42:37 AM
I might care more about the commentary of a single blog poster on this issue if not for the fact that there's a collection of seven years of pundits, politicians AND blog posters that said exactly that about republicans without any hint of sarcasm or irony....

Regardless, whether you like it or not it's legal. The court itself has existed since the late 70s, the authorization to perform this type of surveillance stems from the early Bush era, and the rules changes that made it legal occurred in the late Bush era and Obama has been making it clear since his time in the Senate that he was at least grudgingly okay with this type of thing through his actual votes, regardless of whatever tripe he spouted on the campaign trail at the time. This has been public for years and it's been debated and voted on multiple times. Suddenly everybody gives a shiat just because it actually has a name?

If you really cared about this maybe you should have said something when objection might have still mattered? The horses didn't exactly flee the barn on this one as soon as the doors opened up, they just kind of sauntered out, milled around for awhile and then finally decided to take off. You didn't think maybe it would have been good idea to put them back when you still had a chance?
 
2013-07-14 10:45:32 AM

jim32rr: ghare: Don't worry, eventually, there will be a Republican president again, and all the Republicans will go back to loving the NSA, especially if they spy on OWS and Negroes.

I see the 'Smart' and 'Funny' buttons ...whar 'Stupid' button, whar


Hate it when people bring attention to what you're really like, don't you?
 
2013-07-14 10:53:21 AM

firefly212: AtlanticCoast63: Honestly not trolling, but saw this:

Since that day(Sept 11, 2001- AC63), over 300,000 Americans have died from guns.

Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.

/ONE unnecessary death by guns is too many

It is pretty basic math, we get about 32k gun deaths a year, and 9/11/01 was more than ten years ago.

/the statistic is a bit... unfair though, I mean if two homicidal guys both have guns and a drug deal goes bad and one shoots the other, it's not necessarily fair to say he died because of the gun.


One guy shoots up a school with a gun, and we don't change anything.

One guy fails to blow up a plane via shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport.

'Mercia. Home of the scared.
 
2013-07-14 10:58:34 AM

LarryDan43: Projection. Because the average Republican had no problem with what Bush was doing regarding spying, they now don't think the average Democrat has a problem with what Obama is doing.


This.  I haven't heard a single person say that this spying is acceptable regardless of the administration.

I can't hear the voices in Subby's head, so they don't count.
 
2013-07-14 11:01:15 AM

skozlaw: Regardless, whether you like it or not it's legal. The court itself has existed since the late 70s, the authorization to perform this type of surveillance stems from the early Bush era, and the rules changes that made it legal occurred in the late Bush era and Obama has been making it clear since his time in the Senate that he was at least grudgingly okay with this type of thing through his actual votes, regardless of whatever tripe he spouted on the campaign trail at the time. This has been public for years and it's been debated and voted on multiple times. Suddenly everybody gives a shiat just because it actually has a name?


And remember, as little oversight as the FISC provides, it's still a damn sight better than the situation before enactment of FISA. In fact, that's why FISA was enacted - because before enactment, there was absolutely no judicial oversight and government abuse was rampant. In its scathing report on outrageous excesses on the part of the "intelligence community," the Church Committee advised passage of the FISA and establishment of the FISC to protect Americans' rights from completely unrestrained invasion of privacy, and Congress followed those recommendations.
 
2013-07-14 11:03:21 AM

LarryDan43: Projection. Because the average Republican had no problem with what Bush was doing regarding spying, they now don't think the average Democrat has a problem with what Obama is doing.


Indeed.  Most average Fark Democrats' position that since they heroically protested Bush's spying and were met with heaps of scorn, death threats and abuse, that therefore the average Fark Republican shoud not attack Obama for spying.

Basically a gussied-up version of "both sides are bad, so vote Democrat."
 
2013-07-14 11:06:53 AM

LeoffDaGrate: Pichu0102: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: It's OK that subby lies to us since there is a Democrat in the office. We know we can always trust him to fundamentally not understand polysyllabic words presented to him in article format.

You know who else lied? Benghazi.

OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?


Not sure.
 
2013-07-14 11:07:43 AM
Oh, and here's some interesting trivia from the Wiki piece on the Church Committee:

"The Church Committee learned that beginning in the 1950s, the CIA and Federal Bureau of Investigation intercepted, opened and photographed more than 215,000 pieces of mail by the time the program called 'HTLINGUAL' was shut down in 1973. This program was all done under the "mail covers" program. A mail cover is when the government records without a warrant or notification all information on the outside of an envelope or package, including the name of the sender and the recipient. The Church report found that the CIA was zealous about keeping the United States Postal Service from learning that mail was being opened by government agents. CIA agents moved mail to a private room to open the mail or in some cases opened envelopes at night after stuffing them in briefcases or coat pockets to deceive postal officials."
 
2013-07-14 11:08:31 AM

mark12A: OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That gets me EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!! It's just so farking funny how Obama just left Americans to die at the hands of the Islamist horde and didn't lift a finger to even try to save them. Cracks me up EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

As for the KOS article, the author never really formed a case for his viewpoint. Just stated outright what he *thought* was right. Well, he's wrong. Next?


gkrouse.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-14 11:09:00 AM

Noam Chimpsky: The Democratic Party is pretty much a party of criminals and perverts at this stage.


Yeah... but think about it this way.... its the party that still knows how to party. When you reject all standards of personal ethics and morality the only thing left is state power. Hence Democrats are ok with a police state as it relieves them of any need for self regulation. You dont need privacy if you are not in charge of your own mind. As long as they have drugs of pleasure and consequence free sex... Democrats will support a police state.
 
2013-07-14 11:10:24 AM

mark12A: OK, I keep hearing about this "Benghazi" guy.  Who is he?  Secretary of the Interior or something?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That gets me EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!! It's just so farking funny how Obama just left Americans to die at the hands of the Islamist horde and didn't lift a finger to even try to save them. Cracks me up EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

As for the KOS article, the author never really formed a case for his viewpoint. Just stated outright what he *thought* was right. Well, he's wrong. Next?


Of course, you know a rescue team was sent in (and contributed a casualty or two), right? And of course you realize that, by the time anything larger was mobilized and in Benghazi, it was far too late for them to do anything, right? Obama doesn't have a "Teleport soldiers" button, or an 'Instantly prepare transportation' button.
 
2013-07-14 11:11:34 AM

mark12A: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That gets me EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!! It's just so farking funny how Obama just left Americans to die at the hands of the Islamist horde and didn't lift a finger to even try to save them. Cracks me up EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.


Zug zug
 
2013-07-14 11:12:49 AM

AtlanticCoast63: Now, we have lost - according to the Department of Defense - a bit over 6000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines since that day in the GWOT.  This guy is actually saying that here in the states, FIFTY TIMES that have been killed by guns?  Citation needed, please.


Google: In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings.

It's probably not far off from the truth when you look at the figured for (death + firearm) as opposed to slicing and dicing the stats because "X doesn't count because Y".
 
2013-07-14 11:14:36 AM

part of the problem: Noam Chimpsky: The Democratic Party is pretty much a party of criminals and perverts at this stage.

Yeah... but think about it this way.... its the party that still knows how to party. When you reject all standards of personal ethics and morality the only thing left is state power. Hence Democrats are ok with a police state as it relieves them of any need for self regulation. You dont need privacy if you are not in charge of your own mind. As long as they have drugs of pleasure and consequence free sex... Democrats will support a police state.


The party of Oliver North, Alan West, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan calls Democrats 'The party of criminals'?
The party of Newt Gingrich, Mark Sanford, Larry Craig and Mark Foley calls Democrats "the party of perverts"?
 
2013-07-14 11:19:04 AM
Bit early for troll bait this morning isn't it?
 
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