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(AZCentral)   Boy Scouts are being turned away from this year's national Jamboree if they've eaten too many brownies   (azcentral.com) divider line 40
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12008 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 8:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-07-14 09:02:54 AM
5 votes:
The theme is health and fitness . . . so they're turning away the scouts that need it most. It makes sense from a liability standpoint, but they probably could have been more accommodating and actually helped these kids out.
2013-07-14 09:01:48 AM
5 votes:
Webelos wobble, but they don't fall down.
2013-07-14 09:16:08 AM
4 votes:
Join Boy Scouts*

* Gays, atheists and overweight need not apply. Stay tuned for more restrictions coming soon!
2013-07-14 09:01:30 AM
4 votes:
If your BMI is 40+, you need serious medical supervision. At 32-39, your doctor should at least sign off that you're healthy enough for that level of activity. This rule has been in place for adults for a while, not sure if it's new for Scouts (although all Scouts have to have a doctor signed medical form for any of the high adventure activities).

My BMI used to be 36.7.

24.5 today. At age 52, I weigh the same as I did in high school. Unfortunately, my hair's not coming back.
2013-07-14 11:47:42 AM
3 votes:
I was a Scout, an Explorer Scout and later, a Scout Master.

I recall one kid we had in one of the troops I was in as being fat, but he had to keep up with the rest of us. Especially when we went camping.

My younger brother made Eagle Scout and when on the Philmont Jamboree, where they hiked up a mountain. I remember he had to get special hiking boots and wear a couple of pairs of socks with them to keep from getting blisters. It was a tough climb, but he did it.

The local camp we used to go to was out in what was then undeveloped woods and swamps. We slept in tents, cooked over campfires, had to gather wood, canoued down a swamp river complete with 'gators, hiked, swam in lakes, helped maintain the camp and learned outdoor skills.

I recall coming home from camping trips worn out, delightfully dirty and smelling of wood smoke.

We had local Camporee's, where all the scouts of two or three counties met at the camp and competed in skill tests.

Scouting, IMO, was wonderful. 99% of the kids were slim and trim. We did winter camps and at times, nearly froze but loved every minute of it. Sometimes we camped through gale-like storms. Once we got caught by an unexpected storm that was close to a hurricane but spent the time under the big, open air, metal roofed pavilion, where we turned the heavy camp tables over on their sides as wind breaks, strung canvass up between some of the telephone pole supports and kept warm with the huge, old fireplace. We even set up tents on the cement floor.

I recall Scoutmasters gathering to discuss ending the camp early to get the kids home, but none of us wanted to go. We were having too much fun. So we stayed and had a great time.

When the camp power blew out, the pavilion was lit up by assorted gas camp lights, out came battery radios, flashlights and even old time kerosene lamps. We organized a camp kitchen by the fire place, sent out wood gathering groups and had a great adventure.

Admittedly, using the old military-style bathrooms late at night was a little spooky, but we hand lanterns and candles and the water came from an artesian well.

We scared the crap out of each other late at night telling ghost stories in the gloom and the Scoutmasters nearly had to use force to finally get us into our sleeping bags, but even then, small groups of us were up and down all night long.

It was a great adventure!

Not one parent drove the 25 miles to the camp to drag his or her kid out of the storm. They trusted us and they trusted our Scoutmasters. They came after the camporee was over, several days after the storm, like they were supposed to. If we had found it necessary to end the camp early, the adult guides had more than enough trucks to get us and our gear back to our towns.

Oh. No phones at the camp. Cell phones had not been invented.

I did discover that rain poncho's in a heavy downpour were not all that good and wearing glasses like I did could be a liability. Many of us also learned the value of running drainage ditches around our tents to channel the water away.

Even during the storm we were active and on the move. You had to be in good shape to be in Scouts when I was a kid. Nearly all of us were armed to the teeth then also, with sheath knives, some carried belt axes and almost all carried scout pocket knives and many, being in Florida, carried machetes.

Not once did a kid ever pull one of these in anger on another Scout. Not once did a Scout get seriously injured using them.

I fondly recall those times.

BTW. I'm over 50 and nearly 6 feet tall. I weigh in at 195 lbs. As a kid I was tall and skinny and didn't change until I started working an inside job where I had to sit a lot. I think I weighed, as a kid, 150 lbs in my teens.
2013-07-14 10:04:45 AM
3 votes:

JeffreyScott: By excluding overweight scouts they are excluding those would arguably get the most benefit out of a 10 day camp that is set up to require a lot of walking.


You don't run a marathon for your first race.

These kids need long term exercise, a short term boost in it is only going to be unhealthy, dangerous, and miserable for the kids, both physically and psychologically.
2013-07-14 09:44:29 AM
3 votes:
By excluding overweight scouts they are excluding those would arguably get the most benefit out of a 10 day camp that is set up to require a lot of walking.
2013-07-14 09:20:00 AM
3 votes:

profplump: Putting parents in jail would at least acknowledge some of the responsibility, but it's still gonna leave us with with fat 12-year-olds.


Not if you put them in the care of someone responsible. 12 year olds don't have jobs, money, can't drive or do the grocery shopping. The parents are 100% responsible for everything their kids shove in their pie-hole.
2013-07-14 09:10:05 AM
3 votes:

abhorrent1: the parents should go to jail.


I agree, but I suspect it would be better for the children if we could just stop pretending that "parents know best" in every situation, and just require certain types of training for all children, even if their biological parents are incapable or unwilling to provide it. Putting parents in jail would at least acknowledge some of the responsibility, but it's still gonna leave us with with fat 12-year-olds.
2013-07-14 11:15:27 AM
2 votes:

hogans: This is good for a start.  Now they need to do the same for the High Adventure areas like Philmont.



They do...
2013-07-14 10:11:47 AM
2 votes:

DubtodaIll: In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.


I think the problem is that society fails them at almost every level, leading to the obesity epidemic, and then to exclude them from a fun event for what is a structural problem, not an individual one, seems unnecessarily punitive.
2013-07-14 09:57:48 AM
2 votes:

vudukungfu: DubtodaIll: In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.
this


Again .....This.


They can get fit all kinds of places. But the Jamboree is not the place.
2013-07-14 09:45:39 AM
2 votes:

KawaiiNot: Join Boy Scouts*

* Gays, atheists and overweight need not apply. Stay tuned for more restrictions coming soon!


Hey, they are allowing in openly gay scouts now.  Not openly gay leaders, but I figure give it long enough for the openly gay boys to get their Eagle and ask to be leaders, and that will change too.

Lots of the outdoor activities the Scouts do are somewhat rigorous.  I have never been to a Jamboree, so I can't say how important health/fitness is there, but bringing a 300 lb 14 year old hiking is asking for trouble.  Kicking them out probably isn't the right move, but it is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

As for atheists, yea, that's an issue.  I was never asked for my religion in my troop, or at my Eagle Board of Review, but I did paint a room at my church so they could have assumed my faith.  Depends on the troop/council whether the rule is enforced, but you are right that it is a bad rule.
2013-07-14 09:33:47 AM
2 votes:
In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.
2013-07-14 08:59:50 AM
2 votes:
I there are that many 12 year old kid that are morbidly obese, the parents should go to jail.
2013-07-14 08:58:56 AM
2 votes:
Eating brownies is was got me thrown out of Scouts. /asked to take a seat over there./oblig.
2013-07-14 11:44:41 AM
1 votes:
BarkingUnicorn:
Morbid obesity is protected under the ADA. The EEOC has sued on behalf of people who weigh more than twice their ideal weight.

http://ebn.benefitnews.com/news/morbid-obesity-protected-ADA-2726731 -1 .html


well I'll be damned.  That kinda pisses me off, actually
2013-07-14 11:37:05 AM
1 votes:
Jeng:

And I'm going to take a guess here, but I doubt that scouts with other physical disabilities are welcome at this event either.


Kids with disabilities can go.  "Disabled" is a protected group.  "Fat" is not.  Fat is not the same as disabled.
2013-07-14 11:35:09 AM
1 votes:

JeffreyScott: By excluding overweight scouts they are excluding those would arguably get the most benefit out of a 10 day camp that is set up to require a lot of walking.


No, a 10 day camp isn't going to fix what would at that point be a lifetime of unhealthy living.  What you would end up with is a series of minor medical emergencies responding to the fatties that couldn't keep up with the exertion and an entire team dedicated to babysitting them.

The proper solution would be to have troops check their scout's BMI a year out from future events and offer a recommended fitness routine for those not making the cut or close to it.
2013-07-14 11:27:16 AM
1 votes:
The Jamboree must be the final holdout in the no-fatties policy. My 15 year old is at Life Scout level and every year when he goes to Lewis and Clark camp on the Missouri, we've had to get him a physical and there is definitely a weight limit. We use the standard BSA physical forms right on the website, so it isn't just this one camp.They even do the maths for you. You pick your height and it tells you if you pass, need additional health checks, or outright fail.They are not excluding the chubby kids or the ones who ate a few too many brownies. We're talking kids that just are not going to be able to do what the fitter kids can do, which means they would have to set up some kind of alternative activity, which requires more staff and turns the Jamboree into a day care.
2013-07-14 11:21:18 AM
1 votes:

penthesilea: They don't allow them to use knives or start campfires.



I wouldn't let my kids be in a troop like that...

Our 11 YO went to summer camp for the first time this year, got his campfire chit.
2013-07-14 11:20:58 AM
1 votes:

Needless2say: It strikes me as odd that "Cardio" now ranks above "Character" & "Citizenship".


"to address the need for physical fitness military preparedness in our youth, which of course is a longstanding component of Scouting"

Given the original (and current?) intent of the Scouts, cardio isn't a Baden idea, so more Powell to them.
2013-07-14 11:15:47 AM
1 votes:
First it was the gays and atheists, now it's the fatties, soon they'll want to keep all the dark haired/skinned kids away and they'll finally have their perfect scout race.
2013-07-14 11:09:48 AM
1 votes:
40+ BMI should be banned. They would probably die attempting any of the physical activities.
2013-07-14 11:06:00 AM
1 votes:
We are a society of consumers, not producers.  It's no surprise that obesity is an epidemic; not just among children, but also among every group of people.

I'm paraphrasing Carlin here: this whole country has been turned into one giant farking mall.  We have our mega-malls, and in between the mega-malls we have the mini-malls, and in between the mini-malls we have the strip malls, and in between the strip malls we have the convenience stores.

Think about how much space is dedicated to making people fatter, lazier, and stupider.  Now think about how much space is dedicated to making people healthier.  And we wonder why people are so farking fat and stupid?
2013-07-14 10:58:46 AM
1 votes:

Girion47: TFerWannaBe: The theme is health and fitness . . . so they're turning away the scouts that need it most. It makes sense from a liability standpoint, but they probably could have been more accommodating and actually helped these kids out.

The scouts being turned away have serious medical issues if they're at 40+ BMI.  That's something they wouldn't have the medical staff or response time available to handle in this rural place.


I expect they have emergency medical staff on hand, but maybe I don't have a good concept of what 40+ BMI means :). If just walking around in the sun constitutes a health hazard for those scouts, then they're probably justified asking those kids to stay at home.
2013-07-14 10:57:24 AM
1 votes:
This is good for a start.  Now they need to do the same for the High Adventure areas like Philmont. Some people simply need to be told that they won't be able to handle the stress of certain activities.  Sending a helicopter twenty miles up a trail for a fatty with heat exhaustion should never be an option.

/Eagle Scout with a beer gut
2013-07-14 10:47:27 AM
1 votes:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: DubtodaIll: In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.

I think the problem is that society fails them at almost every level, leading to the obesity epidemic, and then to exclude them from a fun event for what is a structural problem, not an individual one, seems unnecessarily punitive.


They are being excluded from a fun event because it might kill them.

FTA:  At some point during the Jamboree, every participating Scout will be asked to take a 3-mile trek up a mountain.

A 14 year old with a BMI over 40 is going to be seriously endangering their health.

There are other scouting events for 14 year olds on mobility scooters to participate in, this is not the only event that the scouts operate.

And I'm going to take a guess here, but I doubt that scouts with other physical disabilities are welcome at this event either.
2013-07-14 10:45:30 AM
1 votes:

Another Government Employee: Eh, nothing new really.  They are just putting in High Adventure (Philmont or Northern Tier) fitness requirements.  It won't be a struggle for most older scouts.


Parts of THIS.  As the parent of a recent crossover from Cub to Boy Scouts in WV, we've been paying close attention to Summit Bechtel Reserve.  The Scouts have built this place to be a High Adventure facility when it's not being used for a Jamboree, and as such these strenuous activities are the centerpiece of the Jamboree.  It's supposed to have varying skill levels built in, but certainly a lardass kid is not going to do well onsite.  And as of right now, there's not much development outside the Reserve property so that 300 pound scout having a heart attack doesn't have a Level 1 trauma center down the street to go to if he wants to live.  Beckley is roughly a 25 minute drive away to the closest hospital, and Charleston is around an hour.

/My Scout won't be at this one - hasn't achieved rank yet.
//He has a good BMI.
///I don't.
2013-07-14 10:34:13 AM
1 votes:
I hate the word "jamboree".
2013-07-14 10:26:40 AM
1 votes:

MooseUpNorth: Wow. The Mormon-led BSA just _have_ to discriminate against someone, don't they?


You know who else had youth organization was picky about it's members?
2013-07-14 10:16:59 AM
1 votes:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: DubtodaIll: In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.

I think the problem is that society fails them at almost every level, leading to the obesity epidemic, and then to exclude them from a fun event for what is a structural problem, not an individual one, seems unnecessarily punitive.


It's not society's fault that you're fat.  It's your fault that you're fat.
2013-07-14 10:10:58 AM
1 votes:
Eh, nothing new really.  They are just putting in High Adventure (Philmont or Northern Tier) fitness requirements.  It won't be a struggle for most older scouts.
2013-07-14 10:00:12 AM
1 votes:

I sound fat: I was never over that BMI in scouts, but I sure as hell was fat enough that I simply would have not wanted to participate in the activity they are speaking of.

/ im pretty sure the only people biatching will be the fat scout's parents.


I was thinking the same thing. If the kid is so fat that he has a  BMI of 40 he probably would be shedding buttery tears of joy to be skipping this trip with a valid excuse.
2013-07-14 09:57:28 AM
1 votes:
I was never over that BMI in scouts, but I sure as hell was fat enough that I simply would have not wanted to participate in the activity they are speaking of.

/ im pretty sure the only people biatching will be the fat scout's parents.
2013-07-14 09:22:07 AM
1 votes:

TFerWannaBe: The theme is health and fitness . . . so they're turning away the scouts that need it most. It makes sense from a liability standpoint, but they probably could have been more accommodating and actually helped these kids out.


The scouts being turned away have serious medical issues if they're at 40+ BMI.  That's something they wouldn't have the medical staff or response time available to handle in this rural place.
2013-07-14 09:21:10 AM
1 votes:
He alone who holds the youth gains the future.
2013-07-14 09:19:59 AM
1 votes:
How does a Cub Scout become a Boy Scout...?
2013-07-14 09:14:57 AM
1 votes:
Wow. The Mormon-led BSA just _have_ to discriminate against someone, don't they?
2013-07-14 08:01:18 AM
1 votes:
A 40 BMI works out to 248 pounds on a 5' 6" frame or 295 pounds on a 6' 0" frame.

That's pretty big for 12 to 20 year olds.
 
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