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(AZCentral)   Boy Scouts are being turned away from this year's national Jamboree if they've eaten too many brownies   (azcentral.com) divider line 116
    More: Interesting, gala, Olympic-size swimming pool, olympic-sized pools, Southern West Virginia, 28th state, Dan McCarthy, whitewater rafting, health information  
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11999 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 8:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-14 10:45:30 AM

Another Government Employee: Eh, nothing new really.  They are just putting in High Adventure (Philmont or Northern Tier) fitness requirements.  It won't be a struggle for most older scouts.


Parts of THIS.  As the parent of a recent crossover from Cub to Boy Scouts in WV, we've been paying close attention to Summit Bechtel Reserve.  The Scouts have built this place to be a High Adventure facility when it's not being used for a Jamboree, and as such these strenuous activities are the centerpiece of the Jamboree.  It's supposed to have varying skill levels built in, but certainly a lardass kid is not going to do well onsite.  And as of right now, there's not much development outside the Reserve property so that 300 pound scout having a heart attack doesn't have a Level 1 trauma center down the street to go to if he wants to live.  Beckley is roughly a 25 minute drive away to the closest hospital, and Charleston is around an hour.

/My Scout won't be at this one - hasn't achieved rank yet.
//He has a good BMI.
///I don't.
 
2013-07-14 10:47:27 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: DubtodaIll: In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.

I think the problem is that society fails them at almost every level, leading to the obesity epidemic, and then to exclude them from a fun event for what is a structural problem, not an individual one, seems unnecessarily punitive.


They are being excluded from a fun event because it might kill them.

FTA:  At some point during the Jamboree, every participating Scout will be asked to take a 3-mile trek up a mountain.

A 14 year old with a BMI over 40 is going to be seriously endangering their health.

There are other scouting events for 14 year olds on mobility scooters to participate in, this is not the only event that the scouts operate.

And I'm going to take a guess here, but I doubt that scouts with other physical disabilities are welcome at this event either.
 
2013-07-14 10:48:50 AM

The Pope of Manwich Village: Webelos wobble, but they don't fall down.


Stopping my read right there. Nobody is topping that one.
 
2013-07-14 10:49:19 AM
Maybe POlice and Sheriff's Departments should adopt a similar policy.
 
2013-07-14 10:51:24 AM
www.alexallied.com
 
2013-07-14 10:55:55 AM

CasperImproved: TFerWannaBe: The theme is health and fitness . . . so they're turning away the scouts that need it most. It makes sense from a liability standpoint, but they probably could have been more accommodating and actually helped these kids out.

Yours and other's comments that are against this "discrimination" may have got it wrong. I don't think the BMI filter was related to scouting. Just related to the jamboree and this facility.


I'm aware it's just for the Jamboree.

'"Part of the design in building this site (the Jamboree site) was to address the need for physical fitness in our youth, which of course is a longstanding component of Scouting," said Dan McCarthy, director of the BSA's Summit Group'
 
2013-07-14 10:57:21 AM

profplump: abhorrent1: the parents should go to jail.

I agree, but I suspect it would be better for the children if we could just stop pretending that "parents know best" in every situation, and just require certain types of training for all children, even if their biological parents are incapable or unwilling to provide it. Putting parents in jail would at least acknowledge some of the responsibility, but it's still gonna leave us with with fat 12-year-olds.


Kids don't come with 'Owner's Manual'
Evar
My lawn...
 
2013-07-14 10:57:24 AM
This is good for a start.  Now they need to do the same for the High Adventure areas like Philmont. Some people simply need to be told that they won't be able to handle the stress of certain activities.  Sending a helicopter twenty miles up a trail for a fatty with heat exhaustion should never be an option.

/Eagle Scout with a beer gut
 
2013-07-14 10:58:46 AM

Girion47: TFerWannaBe: The theme is health and fitness . . . so they're turning away the scouts that need it most. It makes sense from a liability standpoint, but they probably could have been more accommodating and actually helped these kids out.

The scouts being turned away have serious medical issues if they're at 40+ BMI.  That's something they wouldn't have the medical staff or response time available to handle in this rural place.


I expect they have emergency medical staff on hand, but maybe I don't have a good concept of what 40+ BMI means :). If just walking around in the sun constitutes a health hazard for those scouts, then they're probably justified asking those kids to stay at home.
 
2013-07-14 11:02:21 AM
Wait, first they don't want the gay Scouts, now they don't want the straight Scouts?

/dnrtfa
 
2013-07-14 11:03:52 AM

RTOGUY: I sound fat: I was never over that BMI in scouts, but I sure as hell was fat enough that I simply would have not wanted to participate in the activity they are speaking of.

/ im pretty sure the only people biatching will be the fat scout's parents.

I was thinking the same thing. If the kid is so fat that he has a  BMI of 40 he probably would be shedding buttery tears of joy to be skipping this trip with a valid excuse.


I was a big fat Cub Scout, and came here to say exactly that.

i582.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-14 11:05:36 AM

OtherLittleGuy: Wait, first they don't want the gay Scouts, now they don't want the straight Scouts?

/dnrtfa


They're not straight, they're convex.
 
2013-07-14 11:06:00 AM
We are a society of consumers, not producers.  It's no surprise that obesity is an epidemic; not just among children, but also among every group of people.

I'm paraphrasing Carlin here: this whole country has been turned into one giant farking mall.  We have our mega-malls, and in between the mega-malls we have the mini-malls, and in between the mini-malls we have the strip malls, and in between the strip malls we have the convenience stores.

Think about how much space is dedicated to making people fatter, lazier, and stupider.  Now think about how much space is dedicated to making people healthier.  And we wonder why people are so farking fat and stupid?
 
2013-07-14 11:09:48 AM
40+ BMI should be banned. They would probably die attempting any of the physical activities.
 
2013-07-14 11:12:52 AM
Be Prepared  - Tom Lehrer

Be prepared! That's the Boy Scout's marching song,
Be prepared! As through life you march along.
Be prepared to hold your liquor pretty well,
Don't write naughty words on walls if you can't spell.

Be prepared! To hide that pack of cigarettes,
Don't make book if you cannot cover bets.
Keep those reefers hidden where you're sure
That they will not be found
And be careful not to smoke them
When the scoutmaster's around
For he only will insist that it be shared.
Be prepared!

Be prepared! That's the Boy Scouts' solemn creed,
Be prepared! And be clean in word and deed.
Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice,
Unless you get a good percentage of her price.

Be prepared! And be careful not to do
Your good deeds when there's no one watching you.
If you're looking for adventure of a
new and different kind,
And you come across a Girl Scout who is
similarly inclined,
Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared.
Be prepared!
 
2013-07-14 11:15:27 AM

hogans: This is good for a start.  Now they need to do the same for the High Adventure areas like Philmont.



They do...
 
2013-07-14 11:15:34 AM
I know each individual BS group is different, but it seems like there are too many of them that have had helicopter parents take over.  They camp out inside of community centers instead of outdoors.  They don't allow them to use knives or start campfires.
What categories are those kids earning badges in? Video game playing?
 
2013-07-14 11:15:47 AM
First it was the gays and atheists, now it's the fatties, soon they'll want to keep all the dark haired/skinned kids away and they'll finally have their perfect scout race.
 
2013-07-14 11:17:00 AM

LordOfThePings: [www.cnyscouts.org image 850x804]


I'd buy that if they didn't send the tiniest scouts to your house with it, and if they were to actually ask "would I like to buy some popcorn" instead of standing there and staring at me because they're too small/shy to ask.
 
2013-07-14 11:17:35 AM
So handicapped scouts can sit in their wheelchairs and spin?
 
2013-07-14 11:19:46 AM

Jeng: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: DubtodaIll: In that being "physically strong" is in the scout oath, I don't have a problem with this. I actually applaud it.

I think the problem is that society fails them at almost every level, leading to the obesity epidemic, and then to exclude them from a fun event for what is a structural problem, not an individual one, seems unnecessarily punitive.

They are being excluded from a fun event because it might kill them.

FTA:  At some point during the Jamboree, every participating Scout will be asked to take a 3-mile trek up a mountain.

A 14 year old with a BMI over 40 is going to be seriously endangering their health.

There are other scouting events for 14 year olds on mobility scooters to participate in, this is not the only event that the scouts operate.

And I'm going to take a guess here, but I doubt that scouts with other physical disabilities are welcome at this event either.


Nope. Scouts with disabilities are welcome to attend.
 
2013-07-14 11:20:58 AM

Needless2say: It strikes me as odd that "Cardio" now ranks above "Character" & "Citizenship".


"to address the need for physical fitness military preparedness in our youth, which of course is a longstanding component of Scouting"

Given the original (and current?) intent of the Scouts, cardio isn't a Baden idea, so more Powell to them.
 
2013-07-14 11:21:18 AM

penthesilea: They don't allow them to use knives or start campfires.



I wouldn't let my kids be in a troop like that...

Our 11 YO went to summer camp for the first time this year, got his campfire chit.
 
2013-07-14 11:26:08 AM
Towing around a house held up by balloons still permissible.

pmcmovieline.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-14 11:27:16 AM
The Jamboree must be the final holdout in the no-fatties policy. My 15 year old is at Life Scout level and every year when he goes to Lewis and Clark camp on the Missouri, we've had to get him a physical and there is definitely a weight limit. We use the standard BSA physical forms right on the website, so it isn't just this one camp.They even do the maths for you. You pick your height and it tells you if you pass, need additional health checks, or outright fail.They are not excluding the chubby kids or the ones who ate a few too many brownies. We're talking kids that just are not going to be able to do what the fitter kids can do, which means they would have to set up some kind of alternative activity, which requires more staff and turns the Jamboree into a day care.
 
2013-07-14 11:31:51 AM
Years ago I visited a national jamboree, and young prostitutes converged on it, setting up shop in the enormous parking lot in trailers.  They were charging only $5-20 a trick, and condoms were not involved, and they had a lot of money in their lock box.  Security finally noticed all the Boy Scouts who were heading out to the parking lot and notified the cops.  Speculation was that in ten days to two weeks, a lot of boys were going to get a really good lesson in hygiene.
 
2013-07-14 11:34:14 AM

Tumunga: Needless2say: It strikes me as odd that "Cardio" now ranks above "Character" & "Citizenship".

Why? They are letting teh gheys in now.


And the Irish.
 
2013-07-14 11:35:09 AM

JeffreyScott: By excluding overweight scouts they are excluding those would arguably get the most benefit out of a 10 day camp that is set up to require a lot of walking.


No, a 10 day camp isn't going to fix what would at that point be a lifetime of unhealthy living.  What you would end up with is a series of minor medical emergencies responding to the fatties that couldn't keep up with the exertion and an entire team dedicated to babysitting them.

The proper solution would be to have troops check their scout's BMI a year out from future events and offer a recommended fitness routine for those not making the cut or close to it.
 
2013-07-14 11:37:05 AM
Jeng:

And I'm going to take a guess here, but I doubt that scouts with other physical disabilities are welcome at this event either.


Kids with disabilities can go.  "Disabled" is a protected group.  "Fat" is not.  Fat is not the same as disabled.
 
2013-07-14 11:37:56 AM

ginkor: Years ago I visited a national jamboree, and young prostitutes converged on it, setting up shop in the enormous parking lot in trailers.  They were charging only $5-20 a trick, and condoms were not involved, and they had a lot of money in their lock box.  Security finally noticed all the Boy Scouts who were heading out to the parking lot and notified the cops.  Speculation was that in ten days to two weeks, a lot of boys were going to get a really good lesson in hygiene.


She fixes the tent cable?
 
2013-07-14 11:38:12 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: First it was the gays and atheists, now it's the fatties, soon they'll want to keep all the dark haired/skinned kids away and they'll finally have their perfect scout race.


I think I just sprained my eyeballs. All that rolling is painful.
 
2013-07-14 11:41:38 AM

poison_amy: Jeng:

And I'm going to take a guess here, but I doubt that scouts with other physical disabilities are welcome at this event either.


Kids with disabilities can go.  "Disabled" is a protected group.  "Fat" is not.  Fat is not the same as disabled.


Morbid obesity is protected under the ADA. The EEOC has sued on behalf of people who weigh more than twice their ideal weight.

http://ebn.benefitnews.com/news/morbid-obesity-protected-ADA-2726731 -1 .html
 
2013-07-14 11:44:41 AM
BarkingUnicorn:
Morbid obesity is protected under the ADA. The EEOC has sued on behalf of people who weigh more than twice their ideal weight.

http://ebn.benefitnews.com/news/morbid-obesity-protected-ADA-2726731 -1 .html


well I'll be damned.  That kinda pisses me off, actually
 
2013-07-14 11:47:42 AM
I was a Scout, an Explorer Scout and later, a Scout Master.

I recall one kid we had in one of the troops I was in as being fat, but he had to keep up with the rest of us. Especially when we went camping.

My younger brother made Eagle Scout and when on the Philmont Jamboree, where they hiked up a mountain. I remember he had to get special hiking boots and wear a couple of pairs of socks with them to keep from getting blisters. It was a tough climb, but he did it.

The local camp we used to go to was out in what was then undeveloped woods and swamps. We slept in tents, cooked over campfires, had to gather wood, canoued down a swamp river complete with 'gators, hiked, swam in lakes, helped maintain the camp and learned outdoor skills.

I recall coming home from camping trips worn out, delightfully dirty and smelling of wood smoke.

We had local Camporee's, where all the scouts of two or three counties met at the camp and competed in skill tests.

Scouting, IMO, was wonderful. 99% of the kids were slim and trim. We did winter camps and at times, nearly froze but loved every minute of it. Sometimes we camped through gale-like storms. Once we got caught by an unexpected storm that was close to a hurricane but spent the time under the big, open air, metal roofed pavilion, where we turned the heavy camp tables over on their sides as wind breaks, strung canvass up between some of the telephone pole supports and kept warm with the huge, old fireplace. We even set up tents on the cement floor.

I recall Scoutmasters gathering to discuss ending the camp early to get the kids home, but none of us wanted to go. We were having too much fun. So we stayed and had a great time.

When the camp power blew out, the pavilion was lit up by assorted gas camp lights, out came battery radios, flashlights and even old time kerosene lamps. We organized a camp kitchen by the fire place, sent out wood gathering groups and had a great adventure.

Admittedly, using the old military-style bathrooms late at night was a little spooky, but we hand lanterns and candles and the water came from an artesian well.

We scared the crap out of each other late at night telling ghost stories in the gloom and the Scoutmasters nearly had to use force to finally get us into our sleeping bags, but even then, small groups of us were up and down all night long.

It was a great adventure!

Not one parent drove the 25 miles to the camp to drag his or her kid out of the storm. They trusted us and they trusted our Scoutmasters. They came after the camporee was over, several days after the storm, like they were supposed to. If we had found it necessary to end the camp early, the adult guides had more than enough trucks to get us and our gear back to our towns.

Oh. No phones at the camp. Cell phones had not been invented.

I did discover that rain poncho's in a heavy downpour were not all that good and wearing glasses like I did could be a liability. Many of us also learned the value of running drainage ditches around our tents to channel the water away.

Even during the storm we were active and on the move. You had to be in good shape to be in Scouts when I was a kid. Nearly all of us were armed to the teeth then also, with sheath knives, some carried belt axes and almost all carried scout pocket knives and many, being in Florida, carried machetes.

Not once did a kid ever pull one of these in anger on another Scout. Not once did a Scout get seriously injured using them.

I fondly recall those times.

BTW. I'm over 50 and nearly 6 feet tall. I weigh in at 195 lbs. As a kid I was tall and skinny and didn't change until I started working an inside job where I had to sit a lot. I think I weighed, as a kid, 150 lbs in my teens.
 
2013-07-14 11:53:36 AM
Seems like punishing kids for crappy parenting to me.
 
2013-07-14 12:04:43 PM
vidthumb.listal.com
"Good afternoon. Are you in need of any assistance today, sir?"
 
2013-07-14 12:10:29 PM
The physical activities of scouts can't be done on a hoveround. You have to be able to get off your dead ass without being winded from it.
 
2013-07-14 12:17:44 PM
Its pretty sad when a 3 mile hike is considered rigorous exercise.  I seem to remember doing 10 to 15 mile hikes regularly when I was in scouts in the late 70s.
 
2013-07-14 12:23:09 PM
What the DNRTFA people seem to have missed is that this is a high adventure camp unlike any other that the BSA operates. There are activities at Summit Bechtel that Philmont doesn't even compare to. I used their mountain biking trails this spring and they aren't some pansy rail-trails or anything of the sort. Even the "beginner" trails will get a reasonably in-shape person winded pretty easily. Not to mention the sheer rock faces for climbing and rappelling, the Class III-V+ whitewater on the New River Gorge, and the thousands of miles of strenuous hiking trails in and out of the gorge where all the activities take place. Every main trail in Philmont is under a 5% grade. Even the hike up Baldy is under that grade IIRC. Meanwhile, trails like the NPS's Kaymoor Trail in the gorge are stair-masters from hell:
 media-cdn.tripadvisor.com
/Hot like a Charleston WV summer.
 
2013-07-14 12:30:39 PM
So, a lot less jam at the jamboree?
 
2013-07-14 12:46:39 PM

hogans: This is good for a start.  Now they need to do the same for the High Adventure areas like Philmont. Some people simply need to be told that they won't be able to handle the stress of certain activities.  Sending a helicopter twenty miles up a trail for a fatty with heat exhaustion should never be an option.

/Eagle Scout with a beer gut


I seem to remember needing to pass a physical to go to Philmont and Northern Tier Canoe Base.

/canoe base twice
//philmont thrice
///national jamboree
////world jamboree
//eagle scout
//beer gut
 
2013-07-14 12:46:47 PM

tallen702: What the DNRTFA people seem to have missed is that this is a high adventure camp unlike any other that the BSA operates. There are activities at Summit Bechtel that Philmont doesn't even compare to. I used their mountain biking trails this spring and they aren't some pansy rail-trails or anything of the sort. Even the "beginner" trails will get a reasonably in-shape person winded pretty easily. Not to mention the sheer rock faces for climbing and rappelling, the Class III-V+ whitewater on the New River Gorge, and the thousands of miles of strenuous hiking trails in and out of the gorge where all the activities take place. Every main trail in Philmont is under a 5% grade. Even the hike up Baldy is under that grade IIRC. Meanwhile, trails like the NPS's Kaymoor Trail in the gorge are stair-masters from hell:
 [media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]
/Hot like a Charleston WV summer.


I get winded just looking at that.
 
2013-07-14 01:21:32 PM
The fattest kid in my scout troop was the scoutmaster's kid, so all the fitness requirements were pretty relaxed. He quit and a new dude took over. The guy was a chain smoking drunk who needed an excuse to get away from his harbor hog wife and go fishing. After that, all we did was talk about fishing trips. Needless to say, I never made it passed Second Class.
 
2013-07-14 01:23:48 PM
And then the little snowflake gets a Miskito bite, parents get all lawsuity.
 
2013-07-14 01:25:43 PM

TFerWannaBe: The theme is health and fitness . . . so they're turning away the scouts that need it most. It makes sense from a liability standpoint, but they probably could have been more accommodating and actually helped these kids out.


This isn't a fat camp. If you aren't already in some sort of healthy shape coming in, then based on the activities they have planned, there'll be nothing for you to do there but sit around and be a non-participant.
 
2013-07-14 01:39:19 PM

hogans: This is good for a start.  Now they need to do the same for the High Adventure areas like Philmont. Some people simply need to be told that they won't be able to handle the stress of certain activities.  Sending a helicopter twenty miles up a trail for a fatty with heat exhaustion should never be an option.

/Eagle Scout with a beer gut


They already do. http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/Camping/WhoCanCome/HealthMedicalReq u irements.aspx

A guy in my group started double dosing on his blood pressure medicine just so he could pass the physical.
 
2013-07-14 02:16:13 PM
But they're not being turned away for eating too much cock.

/think of the vegans
 
2013-07-14 02:19:45 PM

StrangeQ: JeffreyScott: By excluding overweight scouts they are excluding those would arguably get the most benefit out of a 10 day camp that is set up to require a lot of walking.

No, a 10 day camp isn't going to fix what would at that point be a lifetime of unhealthy living.  What you would end up with is a series of minor medical emergencies responding to the fatties that couldn't keep up with the exertion and an entire team dedicated to babysitting them.

The proper solution would be to have troops check their scout's BMI a year out from future events and offer a recommended fitness routine for those not making the cut or close to it.


Generally speaking, it is a 16-18 month ramp up to go to Jamboree. The troops are different ways, depending on Council.  Where I am, there were 100 slots (along with 20 adults) available for a Council of about 20,000 and your home troop submitted your name into a lottery.  The troops then have a number of preliminary logistical meetings to make sure you meet all the requirements.  My sons didn't get in, but several of their friends did.
 
2013-07-14 02:21:44 PM
From what I've seen of American Scouts, there won't be anyone at the Jamboree.  I'm not in the slightest bit athletic, but those butterballs made me look like Adonis.  Granted, my group was 14 and the Americans were all 10-12, but some of them still outweighed me.

/1st Okanagan Mission Venturers, 1994-6
//went to Camp Meriwether in Oregon in '94
 
2013-07-14 02:35:27 PM

The Pope of Manwich Village: Webelos wobble, but they don't fall down.


Win.
 
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