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(Vice)   Who you trying to get crazy with, ese? Don't you know I'm loco?   (motherboard.vice.com) divider line 67
    More: Obvious, mental disorders, National Institute for Health, Financial District, first moved, Health research, phone calls, substance misuse  
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11775 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jul 2013 at 4:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-14 02:24:18 AM  
I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.
 
2013-07-14 02:57:16 AM  
Insane in the membrane
 
2013-07-14 04:07:03 AM  
Is it really paranoia when folks are trying to kill/arrest you?
 
2013-07-14 04:13:50 AM  
James vega and/or John Shepard unavailable for comment
 
2013-07-14 04:14:34 AM  

jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.


How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?
 
2013-07-14 04:15:59 AM  
quicklol.com
 
2013-07-14 04:16:40 AM  

StrikeTk: James vega and/or John Shepard unavailable for comment


Is overjoyed at the news:
www.blogcdn.com
 
2013-07-14 04:22:42 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-14 04:24:17 AM  
This is my completely lack of surprise at these findings.

 It's almost as if the environment of gangs and gang related activities is unhealthy.

 Now of course causation != correlation and there's probably some give and take in the middle. But it will be interesting to see if they do more studies on this. They definitely need to. Gangs are getting to be quite a problem in 1st world countries.
 
2013-07-14 04:24:38 AM  
www.cilliansite.comThe work offered by organized crime must have an attraction to the insane.
 
2013-07-14 04:25:50 AM  
I would imagine there is a difference in demographics between the English gangs interviewed for this study, and American gangs.
 
2013-07-14 04:26:49 AM  

HotWingAgenda: I would imagine there is a difference in demographics between the English gangs interviewed for this study, and American gangs.


 The findings are similar, regardless of demographics.

/that's all I can tell you.
 
2013-07-14 04:31:38 AM  
Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.
 
2013-07-14 04:38:15 AM  

rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.


What about furries?
 
2013-07-14 04:38:26 AM  
Christ! that was the weakest article I've ever read... Who funds this crap? 108 out of 4664... are you serious? I guess the hard part was finding the 108! I bet you'd get the same stats out of 4664 Soccer Moms! hahahaa
 
2013-07-14 04:38:27 AM  

HotWingAgenda: I would imagine there is a difference in demographics between the English gangs interviewed for this study, and American gangs.


U wot m8?
 
2013-07-14 04:41:42 AM  

Smoking GNU: jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?


That's not murder, its Euthanasia.
 
2013-07-14 04:42:02 AM  
Why is this in the "geek" tab?
 
2013-07-14 04:44:09 AM  

rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like an human angel or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like an human angel.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.


FTFY

Tis the lot of a 'human' to make those decisions.
 
2013-07-14 04:52:36 AM  
Okay, seriously, what drunk is managing the Geek tab? We've got a story about a fat baby, mental health in gangbangers, the use of snails in beauty regimes, and a followup on a plane accident.

Is the rule now that - "Any time a number is in TFA that is not a sports score, it goes in the Geek Tab!"?

/ rant off
 
2013-07-14 05:02:47 AM  
FTA: 85.8 percent had an antisocial personality disorder

Not a desirable trait in a gang member.
 
2013-07-14 05:11:18 AM  
 
2013-07-14 05:21:43 AM  
 
2013-07-14 05:43:49 AM  
85.8 percent had an antisocial personality disorder

Contraindicated by their membership in a society. Just because it's not the main society doesn't make it not a society.

The rest falls out from feeling dissociated and persecuted for being outside the norm.
 
2013-07-14 05:52:16 AM  
85.8 percent had an antisocial personality disorder;
Two-thirds were alcohol dependent;
25.1 percent screened positive for psychosis;
More than half (57.4 percent) were drug dependent;
Around a third (34.2 percent) had attempted suicide; and
More than half (58.9 percent) had an anxiety disorder.


But enough about the police, folks.
 
2013-07-14 05:55:42 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-14 06:20:34 AM  

Smoking GNU: jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?


Just give them fudge.
 
2013-07-14 06:29:33 AM  
You would be too if cops were always trying to snatch your crops.
 
2013-07-14 06:31:18 AM  

Nick Nostril: You would be too if cops were always trying to snatch your crops.


Punks just jealous that they can't out-write me.
 
2013-07-14 06:36:21 AM  

Lith: rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

What about furries?


Why is there any question about that?  Add creepy to crazy.
 
2013-07-14 07:19:10 AM  
Great... Now I want to listen to Cypress Hill and watch Zoolander - thanks Subby!
 
2013-07-14 07:20:10 AM  
I wouldn't be surprised f this were true, but depending on the definition of "mental illness", most humans have something going on.  Anxiety, depression, obsessive thoughts, there are a lot of "mild" mental disorders that leave you mostly functional but not very contented in life.

As well, gang members have often grown up in fractured families, with financial desperation, abuse, witnessing murders or the aftermath near their homes, etc.  They grow up in poor neighborhoods where there's no chance to honestly rise above poverty.  Some grow up in what is essentially a war zone, complete with PTSD by the time they're adolescents.

In other words they are already growing up with a completely different set of rules than fuzzy middle-class America:  Strength is survival.  Defend your honor.  Take before you are taken from.  Couple those with deep-seated anger issues and drug use and ta-da!  Insane behaviour.
 
2013-07-14 07:20:17 AM  
I bet Rockstar is to blame.
 
2013-07-14 07:58:08 AM  

Smoking GNU: jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?


that condition and many more show the collective insanity of society as a whole. mercy killings would often be a kind and right thing to do for/to those who suffer. but no, those who could bring themselves to help would be charged by the law. good sense and sanity do not rule the world.
 
2013-07-14 08:02:32 AM  
Must be because they're all whacked on the Scooby Snacks.
 
2013-07-14 08:05:57 AM  
I'd like to see the data compared to mental illness in the U.S. military.
 
2013-07-14 08:10:27 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Why is this in the "geek" tab?


angryweb.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-14 09:30:07 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I'd like to see the data compared to mental illness in the U.S. military.


Look, but don't make your eyes strain.
 
2013-07-14 09:43:59 AM  
What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?
 
2013-07-14 09:53:38 AM  
Give me access to personal history and a DSM and I will diagnose a mental illness for anyone.
 
2013-07-14 09:59:34 AM  

born_yesterday: What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?


The majority is always sane.
 
2013-07-14 10:02:24 AM  

born_yesterday: What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?


Haha, that's funny, thinking that you won't find yourself unemployable after only thirty years in the workforce.
 
2013-07-14 10:05:36 AM  
Summary executions for everyone!
 
2013-07-14 10:06:35 AM  

cuzsis: Gangs are getting to be quite a problem in 1st world countries.


Which ones? Not the US- gang violence peaked back in the 90s. Russia, I suppose, but in Russia it's more of a side effect of a failed state- the government fails to fill such a large portion of its duties that illegal organizations are filling in the gap. Regardless, it would have been much worse in the 90s. France has a problem with disenfranchised minorities, but they're not really organizing into gangs.

Arthen: Give me access to personal history and a DSM and I will diagnose a mental illness for anyone.


No you wouldn't, and the specific reason is that the DSM is meant to identify the nature of the disorder  that has an obvious impact on quality of life. So while  everyone falls under the various diagnostic criteria for one or more DSM conditions, only people who are failing to thrive actually meet the primary one.

Regarding TFA: Steven Pinker ran the numbers, and your average street-level gangbanger gets less money from the gang than they'd make working at McDonald's, and suffers a much higher risk of getting shot to death. But the gang creates an illusion of promotion- you could someday be the rich guy at the top of the gang. But the rich guys aren't actually all that rich- they're leasing their cars and jewelry, they're creating an illusion of wealth. The only people getting rich off the gang are waaaaaay up in the stratosphere of the gang organization- the illegal equivalent of CEOs. The labor and the middle management get shiat upon, just like the rest of us.
 
2013-07-14 10:20:39 AM  

born_yesterday: What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?


Shut up, Steve Buscemi.
 
2013-07-14 10:34:09 AM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTafZRecy2k">http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=aTafZRecy2k

Drop Kick Murphys say it better than me :D
 
2013-07-14 10:48:32 AM  
Punks just jealous cause they can't outwrite me
 
2013-07-14 10:52:24 AM  
This is kind of obvious.  Look at the general population.  Extract from that those who have some kind of mental disorder, psychosis, anxiety, whatever.  Then control for ethnicity and socioeconomic status - including the neighborhood they grew up in.  MAGIC!
 
2013-07-14 10:54:39 AM  
Boy, is this article 100% correct. Gang members 99.999% have serious mental defects

joatmoaf.typepad.com
 
2013-07-14 11:13:11 AM  

Nick Nostril: You would be too if cops were always trying to snatch your crops.


Cashew: I bet Rockstar is to blame.


Nothing better than listening to this while playing GTA: San Andreas.
You know, the mission where the cops literally come for your weed farm.
 
2013-07-14 11:16:47 AM  
That guy isn't in a gang...he's just farkin' metal

\m/
 
2013-07-14 11:23:58 AM  
This 'gang mentality' also applies to Mafia types and police officials as well.

Ooops, did forget to mention how many gang bangers there are in active duty military?
 
2013-07-14 11:29:29 AM  

rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.


You assume that choice enters into it.
 
2013-07-14 11:30:47 AM  
Beavis, shut up. You've never been to Compton, you're never gonna go to Compton, you're gonna be here for the rest of your life, you're stupid, you don't have any money, and you're never gonna score.
 
2013-07-14 11:30:56 AM  

No Such Agency: I wouldn't be surprised f this were true, but depending on the definition of "mental illness", most humans have something going on.  Anxiety, depression, obsessive thoughts, there are a lot of "mild" mental disorders that leave you mostly functional but not very contented in life.

As well, gang members have often grown up in fractured families, with financial desperation, abuse, witnessing murders or the aftermath near their homes, etc.  They grow up in poor neighborhoods where there's no chance to honestly rise above poverty.  Some grow up in what is essentially a war zone, complete with PTSD by the time they're adolescents.

In other words they are already growing up with a completely different set of rules than fuzzy middle-class America:  Strength is survival.  Defend your honor.  Take before you are taken from.  Couple those with deep-seated anger issues and drug use and ta-da!  Insane behaviour.


Let's kick this up a notch, shall we. Take the environment of the average gang member. Even before birth, they are likely subjected to an in-utero environment that indicates a high level of external stressors. They are starting to learn the outside world is going to be difficult. This can prime the individual to be more reactive to potential stressors. Never mind the decreased likelihood of adequate nutrition or prenatal care.

Upon birth, the there are constant triggers to sympathetic activation. Parents aren't fully engaged (either due to parents' struggle with their own issues, work, etc.) This prevents the development of the frontal cortex, attachment to others, and the idea the world is a safe, benevolent, and fair place. Because their world is not. It is dangerous, and you can only rely on yourself. Due to the high levels of HPA axis and limbic actvation, the brain forms in a way that concentrates on immediate survival, with little thought to long term consequences. Hell, why bother thinking beyond a day or two, your environment is telling you you're not likely to survive it.

This amount fight or flight activation works in the short term, but can get overloaded. Think about what happens when you redline an engine for too long. It eventually breaks. You throw a rod, crack the block, warp the head. It may still function, but not as well. Kind of like depression and anxiety. You can still move, just not as well. So, you look for relief. Humans, being social animals, look for those we feel some connection to, in addition to those that can assist with survival. In a world where you've been prey, where you've been helpless, who wouldn't want to be a predator?

So, you join the gang. It doesn't necessarily provide a long term solution to your difficulties, but your environment has joined up with you genes to condition you to react. It's worked so far, why not keep going? So, you join the gang, with your hang ups and all, and it's ok, because it's an escape. And you're with your own kind, people who GET IT. They are you, so it's easy to identify. Looks great on the surface, but there's that bit of you that knows this is temporary, and can be lost at any time. So the sympathetic activation continues.

The further you get in, the worse it gets. You do things, see things. But you can't get out. These are your people. Contrary to what teabagging idiots think, lone wolves tend to die quickly. Not only do you have the same problems you had before, you have new ones. You are blocked, with no sense of control. You want that sense of agency. But....there is SOMETHING you can do. Your life is ultimately your own to give....and take.

Does this mean I condone these actions. Not in the least. But it provides some modicum of understanding, with which solutions can be developed. The solutions do not necessarily feel "right" or "morally correct" to which I say fark that. Reality doesn't work that way.
 
2013-07-14 11:47:33 AM  

Lith: rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

What about furries?


It depends.
img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com
There's a scale.
 
2013-07-14 11:48:43 AM  

rev. dave: Lith: rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

What about furries?

Why is there any question about that?  Add creepy to crazy.


So, like, creepzy?
 
2013-07-14 11:58:55 AM  
I'm an Egyptian!:
Let's kick this up a notch, shall we.

Thanks for bringing on the science.  Mammals after all CAN be "preprogrammed" from before birth to ready them for a high-stress environment.  Epigenetics all up in da hizzouse yo.  My bet is that growing up poor in modern America often just teaches you that being responsible is a waste of time.  If you look at your poor mom (or perhaps, both parents) grinding their life away every day and getting nowhere but sick and old, well who would want that?  Better to live a risky criminal life than that.
 
2013-07-14 02:00:35 PM  

ciberido: Lith: rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

What about furries?

It depends.
[img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com image 311x393]
There's a scale.


NO.  Still crazy.
 
2013-07-14 04:37:48 PM  
That song has to hold the record for fastest I ever memorized the lyrics. Maybe b/c they played it non-stop when my brain was still forming up or something.

Like Louis Armstrong, played the trumpet
I'll hit that bong and break ya off somethin'
 
2013-07-14 05:21:24 PM  
They are insane in the membrane and insane in the brain.
 
2013-07-14 05:41:03 PM  
Trocadero: That song has to hold the record for fastest I ever memorized the lyrics.

For me, that song starts

"One two three and to the four
snoop doggy dogg and Dr.Dre is at the door
ready to make an entrance so back on up
(dre)cause you know we bout to rip shiat up. "
 
2013-07-14 07:15:57 PM  
I've lived in gang controlled neighborhoods and middle class neighborhoods and from what I saw, the kids being raised in gang infested areas don't have anywhere near the chance to avoid it like the middle class kids do.

What is 'crazy' changes.   I had a friend who was shot in the face with a shotgun and I saw  him later in the hospital.  He was lucky, it was from far enough away and with birdshot, so he lived and didn't lose an eye.  It was normal though, we all knew people who had been shot, killed, or had been doing the shooting at the opposing gangs.

When I moved up in the world I was living in a neighborhood where people got annoyed if a police helicopter made noise passing overhead on their way to some other area.  The police calls were thefts at shopping centers(by out of towners) and rousting the homeless for the most part.

So my belief is that the mental illness is environmental in origin.
 
2013-07-14 07:41:51 PM  

Trocadero: That song has to hold the record for fastest I ever memorized the lyrics.


I never understood a damn thing they were saying until I heard the Richard Cheese version, and now it's plain as day for me.

/let's just get the linking over with
 
2013-07-14 08:48:27 PM  

born_yesterday: What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?


Fifty hours? Lucky.

That's just labor value theory.
 
Esn
2013-07-15 03:45:05 AM  

rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal.  The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human.   If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.


What? Humans ARE animals. This makes no sense to me.

I suppose you mean trying to listen to certain parts of our brain and ignoring others, but can you be more specific? The more uniquely human parts of our brain give us an advantage in analytical thinking, not in morals. Many other animals are just as capable of kindness as humans.

Germans during WW2 were very civilized and ahem, "human" about what they did. Proper record-keeping, rigorous philosophical rationale, all that stuff. No other animal could have done that.
 
2013-07-15 09:28:23 AM  

t3knomanser: Regarding TFA: Steven Pinker ran the numbers, and your average street-level gangbanger gets less money from the gang than they'd make working at McDonald's, and suffers a much higher risk of getting shot to death. But the gang creates an illusion of promotion- you could someday be the rich guy at the top of the gang. But the rich guys aren't actually all that rich- they're leasing their cars and jewelry, they're creating an illusion of wealth. The only people getting rich off the gang are waaaaaay up in the stratosphere of the gang organization- the illegal equivalent of CEOs. The labor and the middle management get shiat upon, just like the rest of us.


Averaging $8 an hour? That's a bunch of crap. Any fool in high school who slings weed to his friends can make more than that. I'm not trying to have a pissing contest about "street cred" but in my ancient history every powder or pill dealer I knew would bring in at least a couple hundred to upwards of $1500 a day.

These weren't gang members, but if you're already carrying a gun you can persuade a lot more money out of people than you can get from a fast food job. This is misinformation and propaganda trying to keep people out of gangs... which is probably a  good thing.
 
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