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(CBS News) NewsFlash Zimmerman found not guilty, let's talk about pancakes   (cbsnews.com) divider line 2645
    More: NewsFlash, Mark O'Mara, florida, neighborhood watch, Skittles, teen Trayvon, concrete masonry unit, verdicts, Rionda  
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13039 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2013 at 10:38 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-07-14 08:39:11 AM
Best case scenario: It really went down the way he says it went down.  Law got it right.  He disappears, never to be heard or seen again in complete anonymity and forced solitude.

Worst case scenario: He got away with murder.  But now, half the black people in America want him dead.  He's not pure white, so he can't live lightly in White Bread Land.  He probably can't stay in Florida, unless it's in an exorbitantly wealthy gated community where he's going to have to pay out the ass to hide himself away.  Either way, he'll be a social pariah, either for being half Hispanic or being a target.  He'll always be looking over his shoulder, waiting for the "uppity you-know-who's" to come after him.  He probably won't sleep well at night out of fear of seeing the shadows coming for him.  And God forbid he gets lost in the wrong neighborhood, he'll never come out alive.  In the end, he'll die after a long and miserable life or be killed quickly by the first black guy to come at him.

Either way, I think he's earned it.
 
2013-07-14 08:43:43 AM

Lem Motlow: rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.

Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.


Discussed this yesterday with an in shape security guy.  He was all 'If you get me on the ground punching me in the face like that, I will shoot you'.  Then he mentioned GZ's lack of physical prowess.   I pointed out that what it would take to get him down in that position would be a lot, whereas GZ could just step back too fast and could fall over shouldn't determine death for someone.  He didn't totally get the point.  Security guy has been in many fights and never shot anyone because he knows how to get away if he isn't winning or take a punch or two, but GZ may have used bad judgement and can't take a beating.  Dying from one guy with fists is very unlikely, but dying from a guy with gun is ....
 
2013-07-14 08:47:01 AM

nekom: Lem Motlow:  
Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.

The takeaway here is don't go out looking for trouble in the first place.  Creepy ass-cracker following you?  Just walk away.  Let it go, man, because you just NEVER know who has a gun.  Pride was Martin's downfall.  Some half formed notion that he had to prove how tough he was to someone who would dare follow him, that's what ultimately did him in.


Speculation about the dead kid who can't tell his side of the story because he's dead-totally legit.Speculation that Zimmerman tailored his story to look like self defense- not based on fact. Right.
 
2013-07-14 08:47:53 AM

FriarReb98: Best case scenario: It really went down the way he says it went down.  Law got it right.  He disappears, never to be heard or seen again in complete anonymity and forced solitude.

Worst case scenario: He got away with murder.  But now, half the black people in America want him dead.  He's not pure white, so he can't live lightly in White Bread Land.  He probably can't stay in Florida, unless it's in an exorbitantly wealthy gated community where he's going to have to pay out the ass to hide himself away.  Either way, he'll be a social pariah, either for being half Hispanic or being a target.  He'll always be looking over his shoulder, waiting for the "uppity you-know-who's" to come after him.  He probably won't sleep well at night out of fear of seeing the shadows coming for him.  And God forbid he gets lost in the wrong neighborhood, he'll never come out alive.  In the end, he'll die after a long and miserable life or be killed quickly by the first black guy to come at him.

Either way, I think he's earned it.


Maybe he could get a room from Casey Anthony.   Maybe all the folks that society feels morally shouldn't be free get a place together out of society's sight.

We'll call it the Injustice League.
 
2013-07-14 08:48:11 AM

dready zim: Lem Motlow: rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.

Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.

How about if nobody has a gun then zimmerman would not have been following trayvon in the first place and would have waited for the police?

Problem solved...


And what if they were both abducted by aliens and given anal probes?
 
2013-07-14 08:48:43 AM
From the judge's charge to the jury:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jur y- Instructions

Zimmerman would not have gotten the benefit of this particular jury instruction in any state in which a person has a duty to retreat before using deadly force to meet a threat of deadly force.
 
2013-07-14 08:49:43 AM
shastacola:
Speculation about the dead kid who can't tell his side of the story because he's dead-totally legit.Speculation that Zimmerman tailored his story to look like self defense- not based on fact. Right.

I'll admit that the beginning of the physical altercation isn't known 100%, but do you REALLY think Martin DIDN'T attack him?  It is the most likely scenario, given what facts we do have.  Proven?  No.  But likely.
 
2013-07-14 08:49:46 AM

OtherLittleGuy: Katie Featherston, anyone?

[www.horrorphilia.com image 390x584]


Mmm sweater muffins

www.onlinemovieshut.com
 
2013-07-14 08:51:04 AM

lack of warmth: Lem Motlow: rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.

Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.

Discussed this yesterday with an in shape security guy.  He was all 'If you get me on the ground punching me in the face like that, I will shoot you'.  Then he mentioned GZ's lack of physical prowess.   I pointed out that what it would take to get him down in that position would be a lot, whereas GZ could just step back too fast and could fall over shouldn't determine death for someone.  He didn't totally get the point.  Security guy has been in many fights and never shot anyone because he knows how to get away if he isn't winning or take a punch or two, but GZ may have used bad judgement and can't take a beating.  Dying from one guy with fists is very unlikely, but dying from a guy with gun is ....


Last thing they teach in the police academy is that if you're on your back, pinned down, and you think there's any chance that you can lose consciousness ... shoot to kill.  If you lose consciousness, that means your gun is free for the taking and you are defenseless.
 
2013-07-14 08:57:47 AM

nekom: Lem Motlow:  
Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.

The takeaway here is don't go out looking for trouble in the first place.  Creepy ass-cracker following you?  Just walk away.  Let it go, man, because you just NEVER know who has a gun.  Pride was Martin's downfall.  Some half formed notion that he had to prove how tough he was to someone who would dare follow him, that's what ultimately did him in.


This
 
2013-07-14 08:59:27 AM

tirob: From the judge's charge to the jury:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jur y- Instructions

Zimmerman would not have gotten the benefit of this particular jury instruction in any state in which a person has a duty to retreat before using deadly force to meet a threat of deadly force.


If you're on the ground with someone on top of you, how do you retreat?
 
2013-07-14 09:00:53 AM

Noitall: Wil Wheaton@wilw

Stalking and shooting unarmed teenagers because you're a paranoid racist! AMIRIGHTGUYS?! YEAH! #farkYouGeorgeZimmermanDieInAFire

https://twitter.com/wilw/status/356240381358247938


Sounds infromed
 
2013-07-14 09:02:35 AM

tirob: From the judge's charge to the jury:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jur y- Instructions

Zimmerman would not have gotten the benefit of this particular jury instruction in any state in which a person has a duty to retreat before using deadly force to meet a threat of deadly force.


Don't like 35 states have SYG laws at this point? The idea you need to run from someone who is trying to kill you before defending yourself is insane.
 
2013-07-14 09:09:31 AM

DoomPaul: tirob: From the judge's charge to the jury:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jur y- Instructions

Zimmerman would not have gotten the benefit of this particular jury instruction in any state in which a person has a duty to retreat before using deadly force to meet a threat of deadly force.

If you're on the ground with someone on top of you, how do you retreat?


You don't.  The instruction goes to another element of the case, which was Zimmerman's decision to follow Martin, an element that was stressed by the prosecution right off the reel.  The context of my post was an assertion by another poster here that Zimmerman would have been acquitted anywhere; I am not so sure of that.
 
2013-07-14 09:10:11 AM

Giltric: steak (well done, smothered in katsup) and eggs(Fried so the yolk is solid).

fark bread like substances.


Philistine!  You are dead to me.
 
2013-07-14 09:10:32 AM

Raiden333: My personal opinion:

Before the trial, I did no research, I only heard what the mainstream media reported, including the chopped up 911 call NBC played.

When the trial started, I listened to it every day at work, starting out rooting for the prosecution.

As the case went on, I started to realize that the case had been mischaracterized in the media and that there was in fact Reasonable Doubt. I saw that the prosecution was unable to establish a consistent narrative of what happened, and relied only on attacking Zimmerman's character and evoking emotion for Martin. I am sad that Martin is dead, it should not have happened. Both men made stupid mistakes that night. I don't know Zimmerman well enough to make a call on if he truly had ill-will in his heart. But I am happy a not guilty verdict was reached, because it means that evidence and the process of law have overridden appeals to emotion.


THIS!  We only have the evidence and the survivor's testimony, if nothing foul is found, what he says happened, happened.

CASE.  farkING.  CLOSED.
 
2013-07-14 09:11:20 AM

nekom: shastacola:
Speculation about the dead kid who can't tell his side of the story because he's dead-totally legit.Speculation that Zimmerman tailored his story to look like self defense- not based on fact. Right.

I'll admit that the beginning of the physical altercation isn't known 100%, but do you REALLY think Martin DIDN'T attack him?  It is the most likely scenario, given what facts we do have.  Proven?  No.  But likely.


Even if he did attack him, that still doesn't mean Zimmerman was so fearful that he would die that he felt his only option was to kill Martin.

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?
 
2013-07-14 09:12:04 AM

Carth: tirob: From the judge's charge to the jury:

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Jur y- Instructions

Zimmerman would not have gotten the benefit of this particular jury instruction in any state in which a person has a duty to retreat before using deadly force to meet a threat of deadly force.

Don't like 35 states have SYG laws at this point? The idea you need to run from someone who is trying to kill you before defending yourself is insane.


Here in Pennsylvania we still have a duty to retreat and the sky hasn't fallen on us yet.
 
2013-07-14 09:12:33 AM
You put the punk in the same class as Medger Evers and Emmit Teal and want to be taken seriously.

Shame, shame, shame.
 
2013-07-14 09:14:01 AM

skullkrusher: Lionel Mandrake: NOT GUILTY!!

JUST LIKE OJ!!

not really anything approaching OJ



More like:

Just like O-Tay!
 
2013-07-14 09:15:11 AM

lack of warmth: Maybe he could get a room from Casey Anthony.   Maybe all the folks that society feels morally shouldn't be free get a place together out of society's sight.

We'll call it the Injustice League.


They could have a weekly drinking night where they celebrate their freedom and Skype with OJ just so they can laugh at him mercilessly for getting caught doing something else after beating the murder rap.
 
2013-07-14 09:16:10 AM

Southern100: Elegy: Southern100: s2s2s2: Lionel Mandrake: therhinodep: If it makes some of you feel better, I just heard Zimmerman did not walk away from this totally unscathed.  He has been demoted from neighborhood watch captain to neighborhood watch lieutenant.

Did they takes away his gun?

Is he going to have to stab his way to an acquittal now?

Gave him back his gun, kept his bullets.

The gun is garbage. Have you seen it? It's all bent up. The tube is bent up, the slide is unable to close because of it.. Probably because of the point blank shot. The gun will never be used again.

Meh, PF-9's cost something like 200 bucks. They're pretty disposable.

I know, just seems kinda pointless to give it back to him, although I guess he can frame it.


The tube barrel is at angle because the slide is pulled back and locked. If you release the slide it will go back to straight. Its not really bent unless I'm missing something else in that picture
 
2013-07-14 09:17:08 AM
thornhill:

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?

At the very least, can we retire this incorrect statement of fact before this thread ends.  The 911 dispatcher testified in court that he absolutely could not, did not and would not order George Zimmerman to do anything.  He further stated that he is instructed not to order anyone on the other end of the line to do anything because that would potentially make the municipal government liable if the order caused the person to be harmed.  He stated that he is allowed to make suggestions only; which is what he did in this instance.

HE SAID THIS IN COURT.  NOBODY HAS CONTRADICTED THIS FACT.  PLEASE STOP WRONGLY ASSERTING THE OPPOSITE.
 
2013-07-14 09:18:05 AM

thornhill: The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police


It actually boggles my mind that there are idiots STILL saying this.
 
2013-07-14 09:18:09 AM

thornhill: nekom: shastacola:
Speculation about the dead kid who can't tell his side of the story because he's dead-totally legit.Speculation that Zimmerman tailored his story to look like self defense- not based on fact. Right.

I'll admit that the beginning of the physical altercation isn't known 100%, but do you REALLY think Martin DIDN'T attack him?  It is the most likely scenario, given what facts we do have.  Proven?  No.  But likely.

Even if he did attack him, that still doesn't mean Zimmerman was so fearful that he would die that he felt his only option was to kill Martin.

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?


You can't really still think these things can you?
 
2013-07-14 09:20:42 AM

DeCypher44: My 12 year old television needs replacing....


Buy a Vizio. Fantastic TV's for the price.

BB
 
2013-07-14 09:24:48 AM
tirob:
Here in Pennsylvania we still have a duty to retreat and the sky hasn't fallen on us yet.

SYG didn't apply here, as even with a duty to retreat, his self defense claim is valid.

I will say that I believe a duty to retreat is proper, and as a gun owner, it is my MORAL obligation to retreat if able.  I would NEVER want to kill someone.  If push came to shove, I am confident that looking at the business end of a 12 gauge is enough to diffuse most any situation.  I would kill or die to protect my daughter, but I would do neither to protect my stuff.  I don't own anything worth killing or dying for, and I'm a tad over-insured.

Hopefully even that will never come up, as my entire block (if you can call it a block, rural living FTW) is about the LEAST friendly looking place for anyone who doesn't belong here.  It's the kind of place where if you wound up at night you'd be terrified that you're about to hear banjo music.
 
2013-07-14 09:26:34 AM
Hey, the knock knock jokes are making a comeback!
 
2013-07-14 09:31:01 AM

iq_in_binary: Penman: iq_in_binary: Penman: Pincy: Penman: iq_in_binary: Because the asshole who thinks a gun in his pocket makes him a cop that decided you looked suspicious won't go to jail for shooting you after starting a fight with you and losing.

Every Trayvon cheerleader gets this wrong. Trayvon Martin started the fight.

So we have video of how this whole thing went down?

A 911 call and the injuries to Zimmerman.

Yes, a 911 call where Zimmerman admitted to pursuing Martin. Despite being told not to.

Active pursuit is threatening behavior. That's instigating a fight. Like I said, he was losing a fight he started, and like a little biatch pulled the gun because he was a sore loser.

You can turn around and violently attack someone because they're walking down the same street as you? "Yes Officer, I thought he was pursuing me, I just didn't like the way he looked, so I beat the shiat out of him"
In fact it seems like Trayvon might be the racist one, assuming that the Mexican guy is out to get him.

Ok, I'm heavy on the self defense opinion myself, I think we may have started off on the wrong foot.

Let me explain, I have insight into the legal system that you do not have. I was a legal investigator. A good one, I charged $150/hr for static surveillance and $225/hr plus the rates of other investigators helping me for dynamic surveillance. That's right, my job was following people.

Let's get something straight, following people in a menacing manner IS against the law. For us? Unless we we're in confined quarters like a bar or strip club or restaurant, the general rule is stay the fark outside of a 20-30 yard bubble. Why? Because any closer can be considered menacing. Investigators have been charged with intimidation, stalking, disorderly behavior, you name it for trailing people. Because guess what, constantly following people around IS generally considered in the court of law to be threatening behavior.

As a "legal professional" (don't kid yourself, I was hired muscle for lawyers, and because of who I worked for it was TECHNICALLY legal, though morally wrong) I have both a wide breadth when it comes to defending myself but also a pretty close look at how the criminal element and how unfavorably it treats those not working for the system. I'm also fairly liberal now, so I try and confine my use of force worthy situations to as small a list of justifiable situations as possible. Basically, the mantra is, GET THE fark AWAY. Why? Showing that you did the best you could to avoid the situation in the first place goes a long way in criminal cases towards showing necessity of your actions. Awareness, Detection, Evasion. Be aware, detect the threat, and do your best to get the fark away from it. Failing that, preemptive offense. I've worked for many a lawyer, one of whom has personally taken a police chief in front of the SCOTUS and biatch slapped him up one side the court and down the other over a rejected CCW application. He told me to write a book on self defense after discussing this subject at length, and offered to write the forward.

Zimmerman pursued. In a sane world, that would preempt a self defense claim. He wasn't a cop, he was armed against Neighborhood Watch rules, etc.. That he's walking around free when it very well could have been me that he tried to chase that night because I was doing an asset check is disturbing. Why? Because the best way to diffuse a violent situation is to get away from it. That there is a legal climate in any state of our union that justifies someone pursuing (which like I said, for me, IS criminal behavior if they spot me and I'm closer than 20-30 yards) thus starting a fight (I kind of have to think that way because my mere presence is very detrimental to them, it means their life is about to take a turn for the worse if I live to turn in that affidavit, motive AND opportunity considering they're in visible range of me), and shooting someone when they end up losing the fight(which is again likely with me, I took hand to hand and defensive pistol training very seriously), is a VERY BAD THING.

In short, I am (or was, now that I'm not on the job anymore and relocated to a city where I didn't have a bunch of people rather pissed at me) the epitome of the reason to be paranoid and walk around armed, and even I find some very big and glaring issues with this ruling. Whether or not you chose to address them is up to you. But as someone who had big reason to be concerned over this who is quite invested in legal self defense, quit it with your pretentious shiat.


Did you do this work in Florida? If not, it doesn't appear to mean shiat.

As a citizen who's been jumped before in the dark (by 2 cracker ass crackers) I'm a fan of self defense doctrines as well. This being said, it's important to your LOCAL laws. Not that I think Zim did, I think he got lucky.

However, if I saw someone in a restaraunt that I mistakenly thought I knew and I followed him outside to say hi, I'd like to think that I would have some recourse if he saw me follow him and decided to jump me in the parking lot.
 
2013-07-14 09:31:41 AM

BlackBeard The Pirate: DeCypher44: My 12 year old television needs replacing....

Buy a Vizio. Fantastic TV's for the price.

BB


Huh.  Just made me realize mine'll be 12 this year too...

\9/11 watching killed my old one
 
2013-07-14 09:36:09 AM
i.imgur.com

I'll just leave this here for thought. We need some goddamn common sense.
 
2013-07-14 09:38:06 AM
DOJ already tried to push civil rights charges. They could find no evidence of racism. Now NAACP wants them to try again?

Seriously?
 
2013-07-14 09:39:03 AM
Sonny Hostin is still arguing on CNN that 2nd degree murder was proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Wanting it be true doesn't make it true.
 
2013-07-14 09:40:04 AM

Somacandra: I'll just leave this here for thought. We need some goddamn common sense.


OK, you first. Go.
 
2013-07-14 09:43:35 AM

Witness99: Sonny Hostin is still arguing on CNN that 2nd degree murder was proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Wanting it be true doesn't make it true.


Well ... in his defense ... he's a liberal.  And for a liberal, behaving as if something is true because he wants it to be is pretty much standard operating procedure.
 
2013-07-14 09:43:55 AM

OOBE Juan Kenobi: ;[www.tektonics.org image 300x235]


Butthurt because the jury got it right???
 
2013-07-14 09:44:32 AM

SunsetLament: thornhill:

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?

At the very least, can we retire this incorrect statement of fact before this thread ends.  The 911 dispatcher testified in court that he absolutely could not, did not and would not order George Zimmerman to do anything.  He further stated that he is instructed not to order anyone on the other end of the line to do anything because that would potentially make the municipal government liable if the order caused the person to be harmed.  He stated that he is allowed to make suggestions only; which is what he did in this instance.

HE SAID THIS IN COURT.  NOBODY HAS CONTRADICTED THIS FACT.  PLEASE STOP WRONGLY ASSERTING THE OPPOSITE.


The Muthaship: thornhill: The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police

It actually boggles my mind that there are idiots STILL saying this.


911 transcript:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
 
2013-07-14 09:45:48 AM

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 320x310]

I'll just leave this here for thought. We need some goddamn common sense.



He was 14 not 17.  Also he didn't try to beat the neighborhood watch guy to death.

But the neighborhood watch guy did get out of his car in both cases... so exactly the same?
 
2013-07-14 09:47:25 AM

oregon fubaralas: When the 911 dispatcher told him to not follow, Zimmerman legally gave up all right to use the standard ground defense. The jury was instructed to IGNORE that law.

Zimmerman will lose on appeal though. But by then, the damage will be done.


Everything you said is wrong.
 
2013-07-14 09:49:38 AM

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 320x310]

I'll just leave this here for thought. We need some goddamn common sense.



And did Not Trayvon physically attack anyone that night?  And did the victim of that attack suddenly lose his right to self defence because the President has the same skin color as his attacker?
 
2013-07-14 09:49:57 AM

thornhill: The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police


The 911 dispatcher testified that he gave no such order because dispatchers are not allowed to give orders.
 
2013-07-14 09:50:08 AM

thornhill: SunsetLament: thornhill:

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?

At the very least, can we retire this incorrect statement of fact before this thread ends.  The 911 dispatcher testified in court that he absolutely could not, did not and would not order George Zimmerman to do anything.  He further stated that he is instructed not to order anyone on the other end of the line to do anything because that would potentially make the municipal government liable if the order caused the person to be harmed.  He stated that he is allowed to make suggestions only; which is what he did in this instance.

HE SAID THIS IN COURT.  NOBODY HAS CONTRADICTED THIS FACT.  PLEASE STOP WRONGLY ASSERTING THE OPPOSITE.

The Muthaship: thornhill: The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police

It actually boggles my mind that there are idiots STILL saying this.

911 transcript:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok


Exactly. Don't need you to and I command that you don't are not the same.
 
2013-07-14 09:51:16 AM

Lorelle: That's because he killed a black kid. They're ALWAYS up to no good, you know.


Well this one certainly was.
 
2013-07-14 09:51:46 AM

Full Metal Retard: Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 320x310]

I'll just leave this here for thought. We need some goddamn common sense.


And did Not Trayvon physically attack anyone that night?  And did the victim of that attack suddenly lose his right to self defence because the President has the same skin color as his attacker?


N.B., Obama is as white as Zimmerman is.
 
2013-07-14 09:53:21 AM
It looks like the Zimmerman/Vick analogy is picking up steam.
 
2013-07-14 09:55:26 AM

Thunderpipes: DOJ already tried to push civil rights charges. They could find no evidence of racism. Now NAACP wants them to try again?

Seriously?



Obama et all seriously want to start another race war.  I have no idea why.  It's not happening.
 
2013-07-14 09:56:45 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Lorelle: That's because he killed a black kid. They're ALWAYS up to no good, you know.

Well this one certainly was.



Well, Martin was a pot smoker, so we can definitely rule out paranoia on Martin's part...
 
2013-07-14 09:58:26 AM

ZzeusS: Thunderpipes: DOJ already tried to push civil rights charges. They could find no evidence of racism. Now NAACP wants them to try again?

Seriously?


Obama et all seriously want to start another race war.  I have no idea why.  It's not happening.


Christ,you racists are morons.
 
2013-07-14 10:03:24 AM

Lem Motlow: thornhill: SunsetLament: thornhill:

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?

At the very least, can we retire this incorrect statement of fact before this thread ends.  The 911 dispatcher testified in court that he absolutely could not, did not and would not order George Zimmerman to do anything.  He further stated that he is instructed not to order anyone on the other end of the line to do anything because that would potentially make the municipal government liable if the order caused the person to be harmed.  He stated that he is allowed to make suggestions only; which is what he did in this instance.

HE SAID THIS IN COURT.  NOBODY HAS CONTRADICTED THIS FACT.  PLEASE STOP WRONGLY ASSERTING THE OPPOSITE.

The Muthaship: thornhill: The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police

It actually boggles my mind that there are idiots STILL saying this.

911 transcript:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok

Exactly. Don't need you to and I command that you don't are not the same.


You're disingenuously playing semantics. In the heat of the moment when an authority figure says, "we don't need you to do that," that's going to be interpreted as, "don't do it," not, "this person is only phrasing it this way because of liability reason."

Further, however Zimmerman may have interpreted or understood what the dispatcher said, he was still following Martin. However dangerous he thought Martin could be, obviously not too dangerous to follow him and potentially be discovered.
 
2013-07-14 10:03:43 AM
The trial seems to reveal that Trayvon was a piece of shiat at the beginning of his criminal career; he's dead now, missing out on years of incarceration
 
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