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(CBS News) NewsFlash Zimmerman found not guilty, let's talk about pancakes   (cbsnews.com) divider line 2638
    More: NewsFlash, Mark O'Mara, florida, neighborhood watch, Skittles, teen Trayvon, concrete masonry unit, verdicts, Rionda  
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13063 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2013 at 10:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-07-14 07:26:49 AM  
Boy, I'm glad I avoided this entire thread/circus.  Chewbacca doesn't live on Endor and he don't eat Skittles. Noam saying?
 
m00
2013-07-14 07:28:07 AM  

poot_rootbeer: The court system works, it's our culture that's broken.


I agree with this statement, but maybe for a different reason. People don't understand the purpose of the courts, and the media isn't helping. It's possible that Zimmerman was wrong but not legally culpable. The purpose of the justice system isn't to right wrongs, it isn't a theater to play out a media-driven narrative. It is to determine whether a person's actions fit the legal definition of a specific crime. In our society, murder comes with intent and manslaughter comes with malice. Furthermore, it's the job of a jury to determine the facts of a case after hearing evidence.

If the jury, after hearing the evidence, determined that the prosecution failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had either malice or intent to kill then Zimmerman is not guilty of the crimes charged by the prosecution.

I believe the jury made the correct conclusion; it is not the role of the courts to fulfill the political theater fantasies of the media.
 
2013-07-14 07:29:14 AM  
1. Prosecutions' lead witness admitted to lying

2. Prosecution withheld evidence

3. Prosecution/judge tags on second charge of manslaughter near end of trial realizing they have not proved murder

Enough right there for reasonable doubt

Suck it so called "civil libertarians" the system worked
 
2013-07-14 07:33:43 AM  
Hispanic: The other white meat.
 
2013-07-14 07:33:56 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.


Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".
 
2013-07-14 07:35:35 AM  
I love how Traypack supporters are still completely, as Al would say "ignoant" of what happened.

George got out of his car, so should be in prison they say. Not like a thug tried to kill him or anything. Morons.
 
2013-07-14 07:36:28 AM  

RussianPooper: CowardlyLion: CruiseMan: Where was this type of outrage when OJ was acquitted?

Yes and no? But it was a very different case--he never confessed to murdering his wife or the dude, they were adults, and it wasn't in Florida.

This case is more "In Florida, it's okay to murder people." (And yet not many people seem to be taking advantage of this. I suppose that says something generally good about humanity.)

This isn't a Florida thing, he'd be not guilty under the laws of pretty much any state.


Not so sure about this, at least in the case of a manslaughter prosecution.
 
2013-07-14 07:40:25 AM  

RussianPooper: CowardlyLion: CruiseMan: Where was this type of outrage when OJ was acquitted?

Yes and no? But it was a very different case--he never confessed to murdering his wife or the dude, they were adults, and it wasn't in Florida.

This case is more "In Florida, it's okay to murder people." (And yet not many people seem to be taking advantage of this. I suppose that says something generally good about humanity.)

This isn't a Florida thing, he'd be not guilty under the laws of pretty much any state.


I wasn't aware of other states having a policy of confessing to murder being the cause for police to release you from custody. (If so, I think they may also have things slightly backwards, too.)
 
2013-07-14 07:41:08 AM  

shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".


Well, the actual violence he participated in, referring to your last sentence. But I am really starting to hate the word thug. It's starting to become the "N-word" when you cant say the actual phrase "N-word".  How far down the rabbit hole will these hyphenated code words delve?
 
2013-07-14 07:43:31 AM  

MagSeven: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, the actual violence he participated in, referring to your last sentence. But I am really starting to hate the word thug. It's starting to become the "N-word" when you cant say the actual phrase "N-word".  How far down the rabbit hole will these hyphenated code words delve?


It is the new N word,it's become very obvious.
 
2013-07-14 07:43:33 AM  

shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".


To be fair, some people deserve to be murdered. Or assaulted. Or robbed. Or raped. Or tortured.

Wait, did I say "some people deserve"? I meant "absolutely no human ever deserves"
 
2013-07-14 07:45:27 AM  

shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".


Somehow I do not consider frequent truancy , having an illegal substance on campus, vandalizing property with graffiti, being caught a with burglary tools and women's jewelry and assaulting a bus driver as normal/non-thug behavior.

Perhaps the problem is not Zimmerman but he low expectation of what is acceptable behavior set for Americas' youth by "progressives" and the rap/thug cultures in this country..
 
2013-07-14 07:45:36 AM  
ic.pics.livejournal.com
 
2013-07-14 07:46:19 AM  

shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".


Um, pounding a stranger's head into the ground?
I dunno about you, but I managed to get through MY teenage years without doing that.

You don't have to be a "fan" of Zimmerman (the whole situation is a stupid, tragic waste, imho) to realize that action undercuts Martin's "harmless schoolboy" image just a smidge.
 
2013-07-14 07:47:46 AM  
*shrugs* we're back to square one on this case before it ever went to trial: zimmerman isn't the problem, stand your ground is the problem
 
2013-07-14 07:48:46 AM  

shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".


Well, there's also evidence that he was involved in amateur organized after school fighting and that he had stole jewelry.  He was also suspended from school.
 
2013-07-14 07:49:16 AM  
The only reason Zimmerman had a gun, is that in the off chance of following a real criminal, they may have a gun so he needed one for self defense.
That said, and despite still carrying said weapon, Zimmerman had zero use for using it and zero intent on using it against Trayvon until Trayvon was beating the crap out of him; to the point of even even going for the gun once eventually noticed.  There was no call or mention of Zimmerman holding a gun when the two finally confronted each other {as Rachel Jeantel could have "lied" and put Zimmerman to jail if she stated Trayvon stated Zimmerman had a gun -- but she didn't.. which means the gun WAS holstered/not displayed.} -- and only came into play post Zimmerman beat down.

Just because you have a weapon on your persons, doesn't mean you intend to murder everybody that remotely looks like a "punk getting away with it...".
 
2013-07-14 07:50:29 AM  
So, is there still a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth from people who don't know how the law works and who like to make up their own facts?
 
2013-07-14 07:51:21 AM  

shastacola: MagSeven: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, the actual violence he participated in, referring to your last sentence. But I am really starting to hate the word thug. It's starting to become the "N-word" when you cant say the actual phrase "N-word".  How far down the rabbit hole will these hyphenated code words delve?

It is the new N word,it's become very obvious.


Jersey Shore-style guidos get called "thugs" all the time in New Jersey (actually, they probably get called "thugs" more than they get called "guidos", but I digress ...).  It's a race neutral term.
 
2013-07-14 07:52:55 AM  

SunsetLament: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, there's also evidence that he was involved in amateur organized after school fighting and that he had stole jewelry.  He was also suspended from school.


He had "stolen". Careful. You sound like a "thug".
 
2013-07-14 07:53:03 AM  
hasty ambush:

Perhaps the problem is not Zimmerman but he low expectation of what is acceptable behavior set for Americas' youth by "progressives" and the rap/thug cultures in this country..

And that right there is the root of the problem - the soft modern-liberal bigotry of low expectations.
 
2013-07-14 07:56:46 AM  

SunsetLament: I don't get it, what's with the pancake meme?  Is this like a "if we refuse to talk about it, it didn't happen" refusal to recognize reality thing?


Basically, which is extra delicious since the whole Zimmerman thing itself was a vacation from the real troubles of the world.
 
2013-07-14 07:58:30 AM  

hasty ambush: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Somehow I do not consider frequent truancy , having an illegal substance on campus, vandalizing property with graffiti, being caught a with burglary tools and women's jewelry and assaulting a bus driver as normal/non-thug behavior.

Perhaps the problem is not Zimmerman but he low expectation of what is acceptable behavior set for Americas' youth by "progressives" and the rap/thug cultures in this country..


Oh bullshiat,that is "scary black guy " rumors started on right wing web sites. He wasn't charged with any crimes because there was absolutely no proof the jewelry was stolen,he wasn't "caught with burglary tools" he had a small screwdriver in his backpack.There is absolutely no proof he ever assaulted a bus driver,none.It's funny how the Zimmerman fans are so concerned about proof of every detail of the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin,but will believe anything about Martin that they read on the internet.
 
2013-07-14 07:58:37 AM  

MagSeven: SunsetLament: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, there's also evidence that he was involved in amateur organized after school fighting and that he had stole jewelry.  He was also suspended from school.

He had "stolen". Careful. You sound like a "thug".


Actually, not that it matters, but I believe it was grammatically correct the way I typed it.
 
2013-07-14 07:59:39 AM  

MagSeven: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, the actual violence he participated in, referring to your last sentence. But I am really starting to hate the word thug. It's starting to become the "N-word" when you cant say the actual phrase "N-word".  How far down the rabbit hole will these hyphenated code words delve?


Or perhaps, just perhaps, vandalizing property, having  drugs at school, getting suspended, caught with stolen property, attacking bus drivers, getting kicked out of school, involved in the illegal purchase of a handgun and behaving so badly that your mom kicks you out to go live with your dad can be described correctly as Thug like-regardless of race, ethnicity or country of origin.

 So the word thug is being used correctly in this case .  Just as it would apply to those who threaten to riot if the jury did not find the way they wanted them to.
 
2013-07-14 08:01:00 AM  

dandude28: So I figure between this and Casey Anthony Central Florida has the absolute dumbest jurors in the United States, I hate the fact I live here.


Not jurors...prosecutors.
 
2013-07-14 08:05:25 AM  

shastacola: hasty ambush:

Perhaps the problem is not Zimmerman but he low expectation of what is acceptable behavior set for Americas' youth by "progressives" and the rap/thug cultures in this country..

Oh bullshiat,that is "scary black guy " rumors started on right wing web sites. He wasn't charged with any crimes because there was absolutely no proof the jewelry was stolen,he wasn't "caught with burglary tools" he had a small screwdriver in his backpack.There is absolutely no proof he ever assaulted a bus driver,none.It's funny how the Zimmerman fans are so concerned about proof of every detail of the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin,but will believe anything about Martin that they read on the internet.


Ah ... so he purchased all of that womens' jewelry.  That's reasonable.  Did he work at the jewelry store and get a discount?  Or did he pay full retail?  He must have used his Skittles money.

Daily Mail article RE: suspensions, jewelry, bus driver and drug use
 
2013-07-14 08:06:31 AM  

shastacola: hasty ambush: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Somehow I do not consider frequent truancy , having an illegal substance on campus, vandalizing property with graffiti, being caught a with burglary tools and women's jewelry and assaulting a bus driver as normal/non-thug behavior.

Perhaps the problem is not Zimmerman but he low expectation of what is acceptable behavior set for Americas' youth by "progressives" and the rap/thug cultures in this country..

Oh bullshiat,that is "scary black guy " rumors started on right wing web sites. He wasn't charged with any crimes because there was absolutely no proof the jewelry was stolen,he wasn't "caught with burglary tools" he had a small screwdriver in his backpack.There is absolutely no proof he ever assaulted a bus driver,none.It's funny how the Zimmerman fans are so concerned about proof of every detail of the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin,but will believe anything about Martin that they read on the internet.


But the vandalism and drug use, and truancy are all ok huh?  He was a thug  trying to live the rap/thug culture dream
 
2013-07-14 08:07:42 AM  

hasty ambush: MagSeven: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, the actual violence he participated in, referring to your last sentence. But I am really starting to hate the word thug. It's starting to become the "N-word" when you cant say the actual phrase "N-word".  How far down the rabbit hole will these hyphenated code words delve?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, vandalizing property, having  drugs at school, getting suspended, caught with stolen property, attacking bus drivers, getting kicked out of school, involved in the illegal purchase of a handgun and behaving so badly that your mom kicks you out to go live with your dad can be described correctly as Thug like-regardless of race, ethnicity or country of origin.

 So the word thug is being used correctly in this case .  Just as it would apply to those who threaten to riot if the jury did not find the way they wanted them to.


Nah. A guy does all this in Britain, you call him a hooligan or hoodie, unless he's black then you call him a thug. Thug seems to be reserved for black guys and members of subcontinental Indian death cults who work for dudes who can perform heart surgery without a scalpel. But by all means prove me wrong. Give me a list of your top ten favorite white thugs (difficulty: no one who ever used a tommy gun.)
 
2013-07-14 08:11:18 AM  
That was the correct verdict.  But there are still no winners in this case.
 
2013-07-14 08:11:46 AM  

shastacola: ontariolightning: In other news


(CBS News) JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - A Florida woman who fired warning shots against her allegedly abusive husband has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.

Marissa Alexander of Jacksonville had said the state's "Stand Your Ground" law should apply to her because she was defending herself against her allegedly abusive husband when she fired warning shots inside her home in August 2010. She told police it was to escape a brutal beating by her husband, against whom she had already taken out a protective order.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-f or -firing-warning-shots/

Southern justice,if you're a racist ,you're celebratin' it.


Hold on let me go get my gun. *Comes back, fires "warning shot"* at head level.....

/RACISM!
 
2013-07-14 08:18:59 AM  

cretinbob: [t.qkme.me image 255x310]


THIS. FROM DAY farkING ONE.

He's not a Caucasian.

dudeism.com
 
2013-07-14 08:20:31 AM  

UNC_Samurai: This is about the prosecution being unable to put together a compelling case.

You don't go to jail just for being proven a racist asshole.


I think it's more the jury not understanding their instruction. 2nd degree murder was a stretch, but an armed person starting an altercation which ends in the death of another is classic manslaughter. That they didn't convict on that charge shows they either didn't understand the conditions for that verdict, or chose not to apply them.
 
2013-07-14 08:22:01 AM  

CowardlyLion: RussianPooper: CowardlyLion: CruiseMan: Where was this type of outrage when OJ was acquitted?

Yes and no? But it was a very different case--he never confessed to murdering his wife or the dude, they were adults, and it wasn't in Florida.

This case is more "In Florida, it's okay to murder people." (And yet not many people seem to be taking advantage of this. I suppose that says something generally good about humanity.)

This isn't a Florida thing, he'd be not guilty under the laws of pretty much any state.

I wasn't aware of other states having a policy of confessing to murder being the cause for police to release you from custody. (If so, I think they may also have things slightly backwards, too.)


Confessing to killing is not the same as confessing to murder. If it were then anyone who ever defended themselves when threatened would be put in prison.
 
2013-07-14 08:22:07 AM  

MagSeven: Nah. A guy does all this in Britain, you call him a hooligan or hoodie, unless he's black then you call him a thug. Thug seems to be reserved for black guys and members of subcontinental Indian death cults who work for dudes who can perform heart surgery without a scalpel. But by all means prove me wrong. Give me a list of your top ten favorite white thugs (difficulty: no one who ever used a tommy gun.)


Spend ten minutes in county criminal court in Long Island and you'll have more than enough to choose from.  But for now, the obvious #1 favorite white thug is ...

img2-3.timeinc.net

/See what I did there?
//I'm not saying he should have killed her ... but I understand.
 
2013-07-14 08:23:11 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Demonrats: The similarities are that neither the rape victim or Zimmerman did anything illegal.

Except for the whole stalking someone thing, it's illegal everywhere to just follow someone for the purposes of intimidation. Also for all we know, and there's no way he'd fess up to it, he might have had his gun drawn the whole time. In which case Martin would've been well within his rights to stand his ground.


Seriously, shut up.

If people really think like you, this country is doomed. Thug tried to kill someone, ended up dead. Happy ending. This whole case shows just how racist liberals and minorities in this country are. When they are the majority, what then? Slavery?
 
2013-07-14 08:25:08 AM  

Heron: UNC_Samurai: This is about the prosecution being unable to put together a compelling case.

You don't go to jail just for being proven a racist asshole.

I think it's more the jury not understanding their instruction. 2nd degree murder was a stretch, but an armed person starting an altercation which ends in the death of another is classic manslaughter. That they didn't convict on that charge shows they either didn't understand the conditions for that verdict, or chose not to apply them.


Except there was no evidence that he started the altercation. Following someone is not starting an altercation. He may have started it, but there's not enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
2013-07-14 08:25:30 AM  

Heron: UNC_Samurai: This is about the prosecution being unable to put together a compelling case.

You don't go to jail just for being proven a racist asshole.

I think it's more the jury not understanding their instruction. 2nd degree murder was a stretch, but an armed person starting an altercation which ends in the death of another is classic manslaughter. That they didn't convict on that charge shows they either didn't understand the conditions for that verdict, or chose not to apply them.


Just because you are armed does not mean you cannot ask someone "What are you doing here". Zimmerman had every right to do what he did. Martin initiated the attack. This is a classic case of self defense, the jury did the right thing.
 
2013-07-14 08:27:57 AM  

rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.


Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.
 
2013-07-14 08:28:38 AM  

SunsetLament: MagSeven: Nah. A guy does all this in Britain, you call him a hooligan or hoodie, unless he's black then you call him a thug. Thug seems to be reserved for black guys and members of subcontinental Indian death cults who work for dudes who can perform heart surgery without a scalpel. But by all means prove me wrong. Give me a list of your top ten favorite white thugs (difficulty: no one who ever used a tommy gun.)

Spend ten minutes in county criminal court in Long Island and you'll have more than enough to choose from.  But for now, the obvious #1 favorite white thug is ...

[img2-3.timeinc.net image 600x450]

/See what I did there?
//I'm not saying he should have killed her ... but I understand.


I see what you did. I strangely understand!
 
2013-07-14 08:29:15 AM  

texdent: French toast!


This!
 
2013-07-14 08:29:57 AM  

SunsetLament: MagSeven: Nah. A guy does all this in Britain, you call him a hooligan or hoodie, unless he's black then you call him a thug. Thug seems to be reserved for black guys and members of subcontinental Indian death cults who work for dudes who can perform heart surgery without a scalpel. But by all means prove me wrong. Give me a list of your top ten favorite white thugs (difficulty: no one who ever used a tommy gun.)

Spend ten minutes in county criminal court in Long Island and you'll have more than enough to choose from.  But for now, the obvious #1 favorite white thug is ...

[img2-3.timeinc.net image 600x450]

/See what I did there?
//I'm not saying he should have killed her ... but I understand.


I see the 'Clinton lip bite' doesn't always work.  Besides your point, I still wonder if the folks involved in the second case weren't holding a grudge about the first.  Some of the media sure seemed to be.
 
2013-07-14 08:33:32 AM  

Lem Motlow: rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.

Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.


How about if nobody has a gun then zimmerman would not have been following trayvon in the first place and would have waited for the police?

Problem solved...
 
2013-07-14 08:34:08 AM  

Lem Motlow:  
Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.


The takeaway here is don't go out looking for trouble in the first place.  Creepy ass-cracker following you?  Just walk away.  Let it go, man, because you just NEVER know who has a gun.  Pride was Martin's downfall.  Some half formed notion that he had to prove how tough he was to someone who would dare follow him, that's what ultimately did him in.
 
2013-07-14 08:35:34 AM  
Zimmerman flew
 
2013-07-14 08:39:11 AM  
Best case scenario: It really went down the way he says it went down.  Law got it right.  He disappears, never to be heard or seen again in complete anonymity and forced solitude.

Worst case scenario: He got away with murder.  But now, half the black people in America want him dead.  He's not pure white, so he can't live lightly in White Bread Land.  He probably can't stay in Florida, unless it's in an exorbitantly wealthy gated community where he's going to have to pay out the ass to hide himself away.  Either way, he'll be a social pariah, either for being half Hispanic or being a target.  He'll always be looking over his shoulder, waiting for the "uppity you-know-who's" to come after him.  He probably won't sleep well at night out of fear of seeing the shadows coming for him.  And God forbid he gets lost in the wrong neighborhood, he'll never come out alive.  In the end, he'll die after a long and miserable life or be killed quickly by the first black guy to come at him.

Either way, I think he's earned it.
 
2013-07-14 08:43:43 AM  

Lem Motlow: rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.

Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.


Discussed this yesterday with an in shape security guy.  He was all 'If you get me on the ground punching me in the face like that, I will shoot you'.  Then he mentioned GZ's lack of physical prowess.   I pointed out that what it would take to get him down in that position would be a lot, whereas GZ could just step back too fast and could fall over shouldn't determine death for someone.  He didn't totally get the point.  Security guy has been in many fights and never shot anyone because he knows how to get away if he isn't winning or take a punch or two, but GZ may have used bad judgement and can't take a beating.  Dying from one guy with fists is very unlikely, but dying from a guy with gun is ....
 
2013-07-14 08:47:01 AM  

nekom: Lem Motlow:  
Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.

The takeaway here is don't go out looking for trouble in the first place.  Creepy ass-cracker following you?  Just walk away.  Let it go, man, because you just NEVER know who has a gun.  Pride was Martin's downfall.  Some half formed notion that he had to prove how tough he was to someone who would dare follow him, that's what ultimately did him in.


Speculation about the dead kid who can't tell his side of the story because he's dead-totally legit.Speculation that Zimmerman tailored his story to look like self defense- not based on fact. Right.
 
2013-07-14 08:47:53 AM  

FriarReb98: Best case scenario: It really went down the way he says it went down.  Law got it right.  He disappears, never to be heard or seen again in complete anonymity and forced solitude.

Worst case scenario: He got away with murder.  But now, half the black people in America want him dead.  He's not pure white, so he can't live lightly in White Bread Land.  He probably can't stay in Florida, unless it's in an exorbitantly wealthy gated community where he's going to have to pay out the ass to hide himself away.  Either way, he'll be a social pariah, either for being half Hispanic or being a target.  He'll always be looking over his shoulder, waiting for the "uppity you-know-who's" to come after him.  He probably won't sleep well at night out of fear of seeing the shadows coming for him.  And God forbid he gets lost in the wrong neighborhood, he'll never come out alive.  In the end, he'll die after a long and miserable life or be killed quickly by the first black guy to come at him.

Either way, I think he's earned it.


Maybe he could get a room from Casey Anthony.   Maybe all the folks that society feels morally shouldn't be free get a place together out of society's sight.

We'll call it the Injustice League.
 
2013-07-14 08:48:11 AM  

dready zim: Lem Motlow: rdu_voyager: Weaver95: LegacyDL: Lesson learned: listen to authority and don't be the aggressor.

I think the lesson here is: don't be black.

Actually, I think the lesson is: if you defend yourself against a football playing, physically fit, aggressive 17-year-old who happens to be black, the state of Florida will try to railroad your ass no matter how little evidence of murder or manslaughter there is.

Maybe the lesson is this: if the person you are pummeling is screaming for help like a little girl, you should probably stop or he might think the only choice he
has is to pull out his gun and shoot you.

How about if nobody has a gun then zimmerman would not have been following trayvon in the first place and would have waited for the police?

Problem solved...


And what if they were both abducted by aliens and given anal probes?
 
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