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(CBS News) NewsFlash Zimmerman found not guilty, let's talk about pancakes   (cbsnews.com) divider line 2644
    More: NewsFlash, Mark O'Mara, florida, neighborhood watch, Skittles, teen Trayvon, concrete masonry unit, verdicts, Rionda  
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13049 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jul 2013 at 10:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-07-14 01:13:50 AM

ARedthorn: More often than not, such cases are appealed. I suspect this one will be, which means this isn't over yet.


Please explain to us how the prosecution can appeal in this case. I look forward to your post.
 
2013-07-14 01:14:04 AM
If the kid in the hoodie looked like this:

imageshack.com

...and the shooter looked like this:

imageshack.com

...most of the trigger-happy Republicans out there would have approached this case from a completely different side. Something like "It should be legal for teenagers to carry concealed firearms so they can defend themselves from black men who stalk them and kill them!"
 
2013-07-14 01:14:30 AM

Elegy: ChaosStar: Even going out and getting her gun from the car wasn't against the law if it was her place.

It technically wasn't her home. Her and her SO had separated, and she was living elsewhere, and she had a restraining order taken out against him. She went over there thinking he wasn't home, and he was.

And you can't leave a confrontation, grab a gun, and return with it. That is not "standing your ground" under any definition of the term, or the self-defense laws of any state. The fact that she was able to get away and returned with a firearm, and the fact that the 911 call her SO was on where she could clearly be heard saying "I got something for you" and then shooting.....

Like the Zimmerman case, this is not the civil rights case people are looking for.


That doesn't matter, they are going to try to ride that horse into the grave.
 
2013-07-14 01:14:33 AM

Utter Genius: Now sue NBC and get your ruined life back, George Zimmerman.


Yeah, all two weeks of it.
 
2013-07-14 01:14:34 AM

Ooba Tooba: I will be shocked if there is peace on the streets tonight, although I feel the right verdict was rendered. Can't they have a "quit acting like a cop" law that gives 3-5?


In NY, or self defense law states that the act must have been in no way occasioned or developed through no fault of the actor. Why? Because no one wants a truck-sized loophole for the buyers to exploit.
 
2013-07-14 01:14:55 AM

bulldg4life: Treygreen13: Giants WR Victor Cruz just tweeted that Zimmerman will be murdered by "the hood" within a year.

Do you have a screenshot? There is nothing there.


larrybrownsports.com
 
2013-07-14 01:15:08 AM

BarkingUnicorn: shower_in_my_socks: ontariolightning: (CBS News) JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - A Florida woman who fired warning shots against her allegedly abusive husband has been sentenced to 20 years in prison.

It wasn't even "allegedly." Dude had a criminal record for beating up other women on two other occasions.

She was sentenced in May, 2012.  Farking  media's pretending it was today.


I know. What farking difference does it make?
 
2013-07-14 01:15:10 AM

Treygreen13: ARedthorn: More often than not, such cases are appealed. I suspect this one will be, which means this isn't over yet.

Please explain to us how the prosecution can appeal in this case. I look forward to your post.


Trolling or Canadian.
 
2013-07-14 01:15:13 AM

bulldg4life: Treygreen13: Giants WR Victor Cruz just tweeted that Zimmerman will be murdered by "the hood" within a year.

Do you have a screenshot? There is nothing there.


www.breitbart.com
 
2013-07-14 01:15:39 AM

God-is-a-Taco: mikaloyd:
Oh my thats terrible

We'll have to agree to disagree

[oi41.tinypic.com image 572x456]


Unfortunately, the correct feed has been restored.
 
2013-07-14 01:15:50 AM
Well, that's a stupid thing to say.
 
2013-07-14 01:15:51 AM
Wtf is up with today? Corey monteith found dead
 
2013-07-14 01:16:02 AM

shower_in_my_socks: skullkrusher: she LEFT the situation, got a farking gun and then REENTERED the situation. Stop doing a disservice to an actual problem by being a jackhole

She went into the garage of her own house to arm herself and then told her abusive husband to get the fark out before shooting a single shot into the ceiling. Give me a farking break.

It''s not like she got out of her car, tracked her husband down on a public sidewalk, and then shot him to death, right???


so, she extricated herself from the situation, entered a means of farking escape from the vicinity, got a gun, reentered the situation and fired "warning shots" that could have killed children but you can't see how that's kinda different than this or how she wasn't "standing her ground" after she had already ceded the ground and farking left the allegedly dangerous situation?

You're not even trying to make sense, are you?
 
2013-07-14 01:16:06 AM

EvilRacistNaziFascist: shower_in_my_socks: EvilRacistNaziFascist: I'll tell you something, and this goes for 99.9% of the people like me who you probably despise: no matter what your racial background might be, if you are trying to beat us to death we will resist you using any means necessary; and if we are armed and can save our lives by shooting your thug ass dead, we will do it. Consider yourselves forewarned.

And if you stalk me at night and then accost me, I'm going to get punchy.

You mean you're going to commit the crime of assault in retribution for my having committed the non-crime of keeping an eye on you as you walk down the street (which is not what "stalking" means, BTW)? If you do that, you'll have done nothing but prove me right about your criminal character, and endanger your own life besides.

And if you respond by shooting me point-blank in the heart, and then get away with it, my friends and family will hunt you down like a dog. Consider yourself forewarned.

Ha! Ha! Your family will be too busy whoring themselves out for pity on "Nancy Grace" and trying to sue the municipality I live in for a skrillion dolla to do anything of that kind -- and at any rate, as the old saying has it, you might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb; if I were going to be condemned for shooting some worthless thug who threatened me, I'd be no worse off if I eliminated his vengeful family members as well. Speaking hypothetically, of course.


The saying is "hung for a lion as for a lamb" IE better to be too aggressive than not aggressive enough
 
2013-07-14 01:16:06 AM
ARedthorn: [Word Salad]

I'm not a religious man, but I pray that you are trolling.

1) He was found Not Guilty, not "Not Proven."
2) Zimmerman's attorneys raised an affirmative "Self-Defense," which means that the not guilty verdict renders Trayvon's death a justifiable homicide, and
3) That means that Z is shielded from civil prosecution.

Congratulations. You got everything wrong.
 
2013-07-14 01:16:21 AM

Obscure Login: SphericalTime: If I had a black son, I would be absolutely terrified for his future right now.

If I had a black son, my wife would have to answer some questions.


If I had a black son, my vagina would have to answer some questions.
 
2013-07-14 01:16:40 AM
So did Tim Lincecum get a no-hitter? The final score seems to say the Giants won 9-0 with San Diego getting no hits.
 
2013-07-14 01:16:42 AM
"The people, united, will never be defeated"

....
..........
I really don't think the chant goes like that...
 
2013-07-14 01:17:04 AM

Somacandra: Pr1nc3ss: I can't make pancakes. I'm like pancake challenged. I can cook pretty damn well, but I screw up every freaking pancake. It's a little embarrassing.

In this case I would suggest something like a electric griddle for even heating to start with. For many at first that makes it easier. Are they too runny? Fall apart? Burn? Too sour?


All of the above. They have also formed a large bubbles which pop and leave batter all over the stove. Every attempt is like a new adventure.
 
2013-07-14 01:17:11 AM
Watching 11:16pm reruns on Fox - Did anyone hear the Martin family attorney say that Trayvon would go down in the anals of history? Yuck.
 
2013-07-14 01:17:30 AM

Southern100: Hey, not fair! Nobody told me there was a new thread. :p


Sorry about that yo, I thought you knew. It's pancakes because, you know, we don't want to talk about the fact that this was a trumped up case based on a false racial narrative and zimmerman was found innocent of all wrong-doing
 
2013-07-14 01:17:35 AM

Kevin72: So did Tim Lincecum get a no-hitter? The final score seems to say the Giants won 9-0 with San Diego getting no hits.


Yes.
 
2013-07-14 01:18:06 AM

WayToBlue: Quick survey: who likes their syrup warm/hot, and who likes it room temp?


proper maple syrup needs to be just slightly warmer than room temp, so as to help keep the bread product warm.
 
2013-07-14 01:18:18 AM
ARedthorn: Perhaps time for a clinical approach, and some extra, not-very-well-known info:

When someone is acquitted, it can fall under one of two cases:
Not Guilty, in which case the defendant is free from ANY further prosecution.
Not Proven, in which case the case can be revisited later, given further evidence.



Maybe in UK or Canukstan  but not in US. See 5th amendment
 
2013-07-14 01:18:43 AM

ObliqueAsymptote: Obscure Login: SphericalTime: If I had a black son, I would be absolutely terrified for his future right now.

If I had a black son, my wife would have to answer some questions.

If I had a black son, my vagina would have to answer some questions.


If I had a black son, I'd make him call me Mr.Drummond.
 
2013-07-14 01:18:43 AM

skullkrusher: so, she extricated herself from the situation, entered a means of farking escape from the vicinity, got a gun, reentered the situation and fired "warning shots" that could have killed children but you can't see how that's kinda different than this or how she wasn't "standing her ground" after she had already ceded the ground and farking left the allegedly dangerous situation?

You're not even trying to make sense, are you?


Yeah, I know how gun laws and self defense works. Look up castle laws. In the state of Florida, you have no duty to retreat. She had not left her house, nor was she obligated to. And even if you think it was wrong, 20 farking years? Really?
 
2013-07-14 01:18:46 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: What? He was clearly guilty, based on my own presupposition and the scattering of things I heard about the case on the Internet. This can't be right. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: trial-by-jury doesn't work.


Unless you get the verdict that  YOU want to hear.  This beyond a reasonable doubt thing...yeah, that's kind of important.  And the prosecution didn't really do a good job of dispelling PLENTY of the doubt and confusion over what happened that night Trayvon died.
 
2013-07-14 01:18:46 AM

shower_in_my_socks: If the kid in the hoodie looked like this:



...and the shooter looked like this:



...most of the trigger-happy Republicans out there would have approached this case from a completely different side. Something like "It should be legal for teenagers to carry concealed firearms so they can defend themselves from black men who stalk them and kill them!"


You greatly overestimate any love for Facebook founder.
 
2013-07-14 01:19:00 AM
The black community in Oregon said he would not riot after learning that Zimmerman had been acquitted. "I haven't really been keeping up with the news since David bought me a Kindle Paperwhite," he said.

 - The Oregonian
 
2013-07-14 01:19:07 AM

Amos Quito: As to the aftermath? I hope that there is peace - but that seems unlikely given the FACT that the media, political pundits and the POTUS have worked so hard and so long to WHIP the unwashed masses into a frenzy.


Take your meds please.
 
2013-07-14 01:19:59 AM

Treygreen13: Kevin72: So did Tim Lincecum get a no-hitter? The final score seems to say the Giants won 9-0 with San Diego getting no hits.

Yes.


Cooooooool. The best news I've heard all day.
 
2013-07-14 01:20:15 AM
Is this the thread about a buzzfeed top 10 list?
 
2013-07-14 01:20:29 AM
The right verdict legally, not the right outcome intuitively. Zimmerman is loathsome and I will never be convinced that he had to kill Trayvon. Evidence is evidence though, hence the right verdict.
 
2013-07-14 01:20:52 AM

ARedthorn: Perhaps time for a clinical approach, and some extra, not-very-well-known info:

When someone is acquitted, it can fall under one of two cases:
Not Guilty, in which case the defendant is free from ANY further prosecution.
Not Proven, in which case the case can be revisited later, given further evidence.

News agencies rarely bother to distinguish.
This was a "Not Proven" verdict... meaning that the jury thought that there was at least a possibility that the shooting was justified... which again needs definition.


Congrats, this is now the silliest post in this entire thread.
 
2013-07-14 01:21:03 AM

oregon fubaralas: The black community in Oregon said he would not riot after learning that Zimmerman had been acquitted. "I haven't really been keeping up with the news since David bought me a Kindle Paperwhite," he said.

 - The Oregonian


I lol'd
then coughed
then lol'd again
/is sick
 
2013-07-14 01:21:03 AM

itsaidwhat: You greatly overestimate any love for Facebook founder.


Well I think what he did to the Winklevoss twins was totally douchey, but that wouldn't justify stalking and killing him.
 
2013-07-14 01:21:25 AM
ARedthorn:
When someone is acquitted, it can fall under one of two cases:
Not Guilty, in which case the defendant is free from ANY further prosecution.
Not Proven, in which case the case can be revisited later, given further evidence.

More often than not, such cases are appealed. I suspect this one will be, which means this isn't over yet.


What the HECK are you talking about? This case cannot be appealed. By anyone. It's over. The state cannot charge him in connection to this event EVER AGAIN, for the rest of his life.

Now, the Federal Government could possibly charge him with a HATE CRIME, but that's unlikely.

And what's all this "Not proven" crap?  You just have absolutely no idea what you're talking about in regards to the legal system in Florida, do you?
 
2013-07-14 01:21:29 AM
Trayvon supports are getting their frustrations out at the local Denny's right now, last I heard there was a chair thrown through a window and police on the way. Wonder what happens when they find out they cannot vote Obama for a third term, take all KFC's and Fubu stores hostage?
 
2013-07-14 01:21:33 AM

shower_in_my_socks: skullkrusher: so, she extricated herself from the situation, entered a means of farking escape from the vicinity, got a gun, reentered the situation and fired "warning shots" that could have killed children but you can't see how that's kinda different than this or how she wasn't "standing her ground" after she had already ceded the ground and farking left the allegedly dangerous situation?

You're not even trying to make sense, are you?

Yeah, I know how gun laws and self defense works. Look up castle laws. In the state of Florida, you have no duty to retreat. She had not left her house, nor was she obligated to. And even if you think it was wrong, 20 farking years? Really?


It was his house too. You have no duty of retreat but SHE DID RETREAT. You don't get to run away from a dangerous situation, arm yourself, reenter the situation and then recklessly fire a gun while claiming you were just "standing your ground".

20 years is too long for what she did but that's a problem with mandatory minimums. Not some bullshiat comparison you're trying to make to the Zimmerman trial
 
2013-07-14 01:21:46 AM

skullkrusher: shower_in_my_socks: skullkrusher: she LEFT the situation, got a farking gun and then REENTERED the situation. Stop doing a disservice to an actual problem by being a jackhole

She went into the garage of her own house to arm herself and then told her abusive husband to get the fark out before shooting a single shot into the ceiling. Give me a farking break.

It''s not like she got out of her car, tracked her husband down on a public sidewalk, and then shot him to death, right???

so, she extricated herself from the situation, entered a means of farking escape from the vicinity, got a gun, reentered the situation and fired "warning shots" that could have killed children but you can't see how that's kinda different than this or how she wasn't "standing her ground" after she had already ceded the ground and farking left the allegedly dangerous situation?

You're not even trying to make sense, are you?


Have you ever been a woman in an abusive relationship that just got sick of him smacking you around and maybe was so hurt and embarrassed and enraged that you might have done something that ''doesn't make sense?"
 
2013-07-14 01:21:47 AM

stbookworm: WayToBlue: Quick survey: who likes their syrup warm/hot, and who likes it room temp?

proper maple syrup needs to be just slightly warmer than room temp, so as to help keep the bread product warm.


Warm. But on waffles.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:02 AM

Amos Quito: So you're saying that the "suspected criminal" TrayVON marTIN was actually just a latent criminal waiting to germinate?

Is that it?


No, I'm saying Zimmerman suspected him of being a criminal.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:03 AM

Kevin72: You are asking 20/20 hindsight speculation. Somehow there was Zimmerman safe in his car and then somehow he is being walloped and mounted like an animal.


Ok, so lets go through the facts as we know them from when he was in his car, to when he was being "walloped and mounted"


- Zimmerman in his car watching Martin (not illegal)
- Martin walking around the streets (not illegal)
- Zimmerman on phone with 911 (not illegal)
- Zimmerman gets out of car (not illegal) *and also not "ignoring the order of the cops not to" as 911 operator =/= cop
- Zimmerman follows Martin (not illegal)
- Martin goes into a bush to see what Zimmerman does (not illegal)
- Martin gets out of bush when Zimmerman approaches (not illegal)
*ALETERCATION OCCURS*
- Martin is on top of Zimmerman and is assulting him (ILLEGAL)
- Zimmerman shoots Martin while being assulted (not illegal)


Now these are the known, proven facts of the case, either documented by scientific study, or by 3rd party accounts (911 operator, witnesses, etc), and not at all dependant on what GZ says happened. You can take they completely out of the equation, so it eliminates the "GZ is lying" angle.

All of these facts are true. Now, in that list, there is only ONE action that is (A) a proven fact and (B) is against the law, and that is Martin is being on top of Zimmerman and assaulting him. Again, that is the only known fact in the timeline that is an illegal act. And that allows for the next event in the timeline to be considered lawfully justified; Zimmerman shooting Martin.

The *only* point of contention; what this entire case hinges on (and really nothing else), is the underlined item, the actual physical altercation.

It therefore comes down to two options:
- if Martin was the first party to commit the first physical contact, then Zimmerman is not guilty of any criminal acts thereafter
- if Zimmerman was the first party to commit the first physical contact, then Martin is not guilty of any criminal acts thereafter

In determining which option is true, we have to look at what the evidence is given to us. Again, even removing GZs statements, the only evidence we have is this: Zimmerman had injuries that was a restult of a physical altercation, and Martin did not.

And thats it. Thats is all there is. Given just these known facts, and the sole desision that had to be made; based on that, while we can't call Zimmerman "Innocent" we can't call him "Guilty", and that is the outcome we had today in the court.

/The end.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:05 AM

Mentat: Dimensio: Mentat: Dimensio: "Feeling threatened" is not inherently justification for use of violence.

Why not?  Isn't that the basis of Stand Your Ground laws?

No. "Stand your Ground" laws, which are not relevant to the current discussion, establish that an individual who has been placed in a reasonable fear -- which is defined as fear that is evident to any reasonable individual -- of imminent death, grievous bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual assault has no duty to retreat before using deadly force against an aggressor who is responsible for the existence of the reasonable fear. Merely "feeling threatened" is not sufficient, as such a broad scope would allow individuals to use deadly force even if their fear was not reasonable.

That's a nice tidy definition, but it gets very confusing in real life situations.  The Florida law in particular has been criticized by a task force that felt it couldn't be rewritten and should be repealed.  Regardless, in a real life situation like this, no one is going to stop and say "Is this a SYG scenario?", they're going to react and let the court sort it out later.  In fact, that seems to happen a lot in Florida.  After all, if the only other witness is dead, who's to say you didn't feel your life was threatened?  And again, we don't know exactly what happened when Trayvon confronted Zimmerman the final time.  If he saw the gun, or if god forbid Zimmerman drew the gun, Trayvon could easily have felt he was in mortal danger.  We'll never know though because he's dead and Zimmerman sure as hell will never admit to something like that.


Is an alternative available other than legally prohibiting individuals from using force if they are in fact threatened by a violent attacker?
 
2013-07-14 01:22:31 AM

Owangotang: The right verdict legally, not the right outcome intuitively. Zimmerman is loathsome and I will never be convinced that he had to kill Trayvon. Evidence is evidence though, hence the right verdict.


Well TM amazingly didn't steal the skittles.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:39 AM

shower_in_my_socks: skullkrusher: so, she extricated herself from the situation, entered a means of farking escape from the vicinity, got a gun, reentered the situation and fired "warning shots" that could have killed children but you can't see how that's kinda different than this or how she wasn't "standing her ground" after she had already ceded the ground and farking left the allegedly dangerous situation?

You're not even trying to make sense, are you?

Yeah, I know how gun laws and self defense works. Look up castle laws. In the state of Florida, you have no duty to retreat. She had not left her house, nor was she obligated to. And even if you think it was wrong, 20 farking years? Really?


She retreated, then returned to the danger.  At that point she was the aggressor.  So no, you don't know how self-defense law works.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:39 AM

Somacandra: randomjsa: Watching MSNBC right now. It's like they're covering the worst tragedy they've had to report on in history. It's really pathetic.

You can lay a much stinkier turd that that. In this sewer that will barely register on the Sniff-O-Meter. I'll give you a mulligan to try again.


What else is their to say? Just pointing out the obvious. MSNBC didn't act this sad and somber of the AZ firefighters but this is enough to give them a sad?

They got issues man.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:44 AM

Third Day Mark: Know how i know you have no clue wtf you're talking about?

Zimmermans entire defense was based upon Stand your Ground and the use of deadly force.   There was a pre-trial hearing to determine whether SYG was going to be allowed as a defense.


**not knowing Zimmerman waived his pre-trial SYG hearing**

Tell me more about how much know about this case.
 
2013-07-14 01:22:53 AM
 
2013-07-14 01:23:11 AM

robohobo: ObliqueAsymptote: Obscure Login: SphericalTime: If I had a black son, I would be absolutely terrified for his future right now.

If I had a black son, my wife would have to answer some questions.

If I had a black son, my vagina would have to answer some questions.

If I had a black son, I'd make him call me Mr.Drummond.


Wha chu talkin' bout Willis?
 
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