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(HitFix)   Your new Harrison Ford sci-fi blockbuster may in trouble if your studio offers an apology before anyone even sees it   (hitfix.com) divider line 92
    More: Fail, Lionsgate, Drew McWeeny, sci-fi, Orson Scott Card, NOM, Gods and Monsters, domestic partnerships, employee benefit  
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7035 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 13 Jul 2013 at 12:12 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-13 06:52:14 AM
Hey, the more people jammed up about some perceived bullshiat, the less crowded the theater when I go to see it.
 
2013-07-13 08:21:50 AM
I'm going to sneak in some chick-fil-a to eat while watching the movie.  Then I will go shopping at Hobby Lobby afterwards.

/and when I get home, I will tweet for freedom
 
2013-07-13 09:10:56 AM
I still say you can't have a name like Orson Scott Card and NOT be gay.  It's not possible.  Otherwise people would just call him Scottie.
 
2013-07-13 09:46:56 AM
Before this goes any further, I should point out that the controversy isn't so much just about the fact that Orson Scott Card is a Mormon (I accidentally typed "Moron" and thought about leaving it that way) or that he doesn't like gay people.  It's that he's actively worked for hate organizations like the National Organization of Marriage.

It's like the Chick-fil-A thing: if that had just been some exec popping off about how he doesn't like the homogheys, maybe I could have overlooked that.  But they are actively financially supporting hate groups, and if I spend money there, I will end up helping them give these hate groups their support.  It's the same deal if any of my money ends up going to Orson Scott Card in any way.
 
2013-07-13 09:51:50 AM

jake_lex: Before this goes any further, I should point out that the controversy isn't so much just about the fact that Orson Scott Card is a Mormon (I accidentally typed "Moron" and thought about leaving it that way) or that he doesn't like gay people.  It's that he's actively worked for hate organizations like the National Organization of Marriage.

It's like the Chick-fil-A thing: if that had just been some exec popping off about how he doesn't like the homogheys, maybe I could have overlooked that.  But they are actively financially supporting hate groups, and if I spend money there, I will end up helping them give these hate groups their support.  It's the same deal if any of my money ends up going to Orson Scott Card in any way.


Your objection is thoughtful and well explained.
 
2013-07-13 10:10:30 AM
Well, this will ensure that the "christians" will see this movie in droves.
 
2013-07-13 10:38:40 AM

jake_lex: Before this goes any further, I should point out that the controversy isn't so much just about the fact that Orson Scott Card is a Mormon (I accidentally typed "Moron" and thought about leaving it that way) or that he doesn't like gay people.  It's that he's actively worked for hate organizations like the National Organization of Marriage.

It's like the Chick-fil-A thing: if that had just been some exec popping off about how he doesn't like the homogheys, maybe I could have overlooked that.  But they are actively financially supporting hate groups, and if I spend money there, I will end up helping them give these hate groups their support.  It's the same deal if any of my money ends up going to Orson Scott Card in any way.


I guess that depends on whether he gets a cut of the gross or not, doesn't it? He may already have that money. As I see it, a great number of people who don't share those views and were probably unaware of his stance put a lot of work into this. I wanted to see it before, and I'll still go see it.
 
2013-07-13 10:49:01 AM
Don't care I'm going to see it.  I liked the book.  I read books whose authors are douches all the time.  You want to stop supporting people that truly take our freedoms then you would have to forgo all media since they steal from us everyday.
learn who you Should hate
 
2013-07-13 11:16:38 AM
Card has already made his millions off of Ender. A massive boycott won't hurt him.

What it WILL hurt is all the other people who put a lot of sweat into making the film.
 
2013-07-13 11:32:28 AM
OSC is a douchenozzle but I'm not going to let that stop me from watching Ender's Game.
 
2013-07-13 12:25:16 PM

Nabb1: I guess that depends on whether he gets a cut of the gross or not, doesn't it?


You have heard of Hollywood accounting right? He will never see a cent of the gross.
 
2013-07-13 12:25:16 PM
Just don't see the film if there's some background issues you find are too much for you.
 
2013-07-13 12:32:36 PM

Via Infinito: OSC is a douchenozzle but I'm not going to let that stop me from watching Ender's Game.


I refuse to believe that Ender's Game can be in any way successfully transferred to a movie.  That is why I will not see it.
 
2013-07-13 12:35:04 PM
FTA:  "I love the book, and in fact just put it onto my oldest son's Kindle as one of the many science-fiction novels he was given for his birthday."

Than later:

"It is because of his financial support of the group that I find myself unable to support "Ender's Game," because I have a hard time believing the film will not financially benefit Card in any way. If it's a hit, he'll sell more copies of his book, so even if they don't cut him in on the profits from the film, he'll still be looking at more money in his pocket, and he'll spend that money in ways that disturb me. That is his right, but I don't have to support him."

Brilliant.
 
2013-07-13 12:36:19 PM

Halli: Nabb1: I guess that depends on whether he gets a cut of the gross or not, doesn't it?

You have heard of Hollywood accounting right? He will never see a cent of the gross.


You do know what 'gross' means right? Hollywood accounting only comes into effect if you're stupid enough to sign for "net profits" only which is where they screw you.

If Orson is getting a cut of the 'gross' he'll make money hand-over-fist. If he's only getting 'net' he won't see a cent.
 
2013-07-13 12:36:56 PM

PanicMan: Via Infinito: OSC is a douchenozzle but I'm not going to let that stop me from watching Ender's Game.

I refuse to believe that Ender's Game can be in any way successfully transferred to a movie.  That is why I will not see it.


That and the fact that OSC has been so outspoken on the subject for so long leads me to believe that the studio's only plan was to go to work every day chanting, "Please, Lord, let him keep his mouth shut..."
 
2013-07-13 12:43:23 PM

Nabb1: jake_lex: Before this goes any further, I should point out that the controversy isn't so much just about the fact that Orson Scott Card is a Mormon (I accidentally typed "Moron" and thought about leaving it that way) or that he doesn't like gay people.  It's that he's actively worked for hate organizations like the National Organization of Marriage.

It's like the Chick-fil-A thing: if that had just been some exec popping off about how he doesn't like the homogheys, maybe I could have overlooked that.  But they are actively financially supporting hate groups, and if I spend money there, I will end up helping them give these hate groups their support.  It's the same deal if any of my money ends up going to Orson Scott Card in any way.

I guess that depends on whether he gets a cut of the gross or not, doesn't it? He may already have that money. As I see it, a great number of people who don't share those views and were probably unaware of his stance put a lot of work into this. I wanted to see it before, and I'll still go see it.


There are a lot of folks working at the cigarette factory too, but you don't see me going out and buying a pack of Camels.  Apt analogy, actually.  OSC just sells a different kind of cancer.
 
2013-07-13 12:46:15 PM
A lot of geeks work at Microsoft, Facebook, AT&T, Twitter, etc. Just because they are helping the government illegally spy and eavesdrop on everyone does not make them bad people.
 
2013-07-13 12:46:16 PM

Wise_Guy: FTA:  "I love the book, and in fact just put it onto my oldest son's Kindle as one of the many science-fiction novels he was given for his birthday."

Than later:

"It is because of his financial support of the group that I find myself unable to support "Ender's Game," because I have a hard time believing the film will not financially benefit Card in any way. If it's a hit, he'll sell more copies of his book, so even if they don't cut him in on the profits from the film, he'll still be looking at more money in his pocket, and he'll spend that money in ways that disturb me. That is his right, but I don't have to support him."

Brilliant.



My thought exactly.
 
2013-07-13 12:52:38 PM
tillerman35:There are a lot of folks working at the cigarette factory too, but you don't see me going out and buying a pack of Camels.  Apt analogy, actually.  OSC just sells a different kind of cancer.

That sir is a great great quote.
 
2013-07-13 12:53:58 PM

Howie Spankowitz: Well, this will ensure that the "christians" will see this movie in droves.


Yup. There were literally lines around CFAs when the boycott was called

/yes, literally
 
2013-07-13 12:57:42 PM
I bought a Volkswagen once.  I guess that makes me a supporter of the extermination of Jews.
 
2013-07-13 01:00:20 PM

John Nash: I bought a Volkswagen once.  I guess that makes me a supporter of the extermination of Jews.


You know who else had a Volk... Oh, wait
 
2013-07-13 01:04:55 PM
If you can't separate the artist from their art, you won't be able to enjoy a lot of the greatest experiences this world has to offer.

Some examples: Da Vinci was a convicted rapist. Picasso was a well known Nazi sympathizer. John Steinbeck allegedly had a thing for little boys. Mozart was a serial arsonist and liked to urinate in libraries.

Genius often comes at the expense of sanity.
 
2013-07-13 01:08:16 PM

Wise_Guy: FTA:  "I love the book, and in fact just put it onto my oldest son's Kindle as one of the many science-fiction novels he was given for his birthday."

Than later:

"It is because of his financial support of the group that I find myself unable to support "Ender's Game," because I have a hard time believing the film will not financially benefit Card in any way. If it's a hit, he'll sell more copies of his book, so even if they don't cut him in on the profits from the film, he'll still be looking at more money in his pocket, and he'll spend that money in ways that disturb me. That is his right, but I don't have to support him."

Brilliant.


In the comments below TFA, he explained that he didn't know about Card's anti-gay views until after he'd purchased the e-book.  Card has been an outspoken opponent of gay rights for a long time but has only recently gotten media attention for it.
 
2013-07-13 01:12:38 PM

Halli: Nabb1: I guess that depends on whether he gets a cut of the gross or not, doesn't it?

You have heard of Hollywood accounting right? He will never see a cent of the gross.


If he has gross points, he will definitely see $$$$. You have confused gross with net profits. There are never net profits with Hollywood accounting.
 
2013-07-13 01:14:23 PM

Inaditch: John Steinbeck allegedly had a thing for little boys.


That's one I really have never heard and I live in Steinbecks old neighborhood.

Inaditch: Mozart was a serial arsonist and liked to urinate in libraries.


Is that wrong? I thought this was America!
 
2013-07-13 01:31:44 PM
jake_lex:  actively financially supporting hate groups, and if I spend money there, I will end up helping them give these hate groups their support.  It's the same deal if any of my money ends up going to Orson Scott Card in any way.

So it's fine (or at least tolerable) for people to spout homophobic comments as long as they don't pay people to do the same thing?

I guess I just don't really see the distinction.  Freedom of speech and all for saying whatever his opinion is.  Freedom of contract and all for giving money to like-minded people.  Maybe I'd understand if it were a group that was actively breaking the law and committing hate crimes, but it's just a group that conforms with his views.  That's like attacking one guy because he has a bigger microphone.

Many Americans oppose same-sex marriage due to religious beliefs.  After the Supreme Court ruled that same-sex marriage is legal Orson Scott Card released a statement saying his views were irrelevant (or something like that), because the full faith and credit clause would make every state recognize gay marriage.

If an author can write a great book, I can appreciate it.  If director can make a great movie, I can appreciate it.  If an athlete can make great plays I can appreciate the player.  If my book/ticket/gear purchase finds their way into the pockets of someone who has different views, so what?  My pennies, and other customer's pennies, will fund speech that might convince someone to believe whatever is said.  Well, more speech is better/melting pot of ideas/ truth rises to the top.

I enjoyed Ender's Game (minus some of the emo parts), Ender's Shadow was really good, and I'm currently reading http://hpmor.com/  which is unexpectedly very entertaining and draws heavily from Ender's Game/Shadow.

I'm excited to see the movie.
 
2013-07-13 01:36:29 PM

anfrind: Wise_Guy: FTA:  "I love the book, and in fact just put it onto my oldest son's Kindle as one of the many science-fiction novels he was given for his birthday."

Than later:

"It is because of his financial support of the group that I find myself unable to support "Ender's Game," because I have a hard time believing the film will not financially benefit Card in any way. If it's a hit, he'll sell more copies of his book, so even if they don't cut him in on the profits from the film, he'll still be looking at more money in his pocket, and he'll spend that money in ways that disturb me. That is his right, but I don't have to support him."

Brilliant.

In the comments below TFA, he explained that he didn't know about Card's anti-gay views until after he'd purchased the e-book.  Card has been an outspoken opponent of gay rights for a long time but has only recently gotten media attention for it.


That doesn't really help his position. That just goes to show that the article writer doesn't give two shiats about a person's political views until he has to take a public stance in regards to controversy.

Now, ignoring the while Mormon thing where you could probably make an inference on his views, OSC has been an advocate for laws banning consensual homosexual sex since the mid 1990s. He also wrote a few public articles supporting McCain, Gingrich, and an entire goddamn book that was anti-global warming.

I would think someone taking a strong stance on not even reviewing the movie because money might finds its way to the author would know about the guy's political stance far before national media attention since he's been public about it for 20 years.

I'm guessing the article writer loved the chik fil a waffle fries right up until January 2011 and then was totally shocked and appalled with everything they did thereafter.
 
2013-07-13 01:40:28 PM
I guess I just don't really see the distinction. Freedom of speech and all for saying whatever his opinion is. Freedom of contract and all for giving money to like-minded people. Maybe I'd understand if it were a group that was actively breaking the law and committing hate crimes, but it's just a group that conforms with his views. That's like attacking one guy because he has a bigger microphone.
-------

You are really twisting the idea of "freedom of speech" there, Chet.

I mean, nowhere in there is the writer advocating that they CAN'T SPOUT the idiocy (which would be actual freedom of speech). He's just saying he doesn't want to tangentially financially support it.

Perhaps you missed that upon first read.
 
2013-07-13 02:05:33 PM
Years ago, back in my Mormon days, I read a non-fiction collection of essays that OSC wrote for the Mormon crowd called "A Storyteller in Zion." One of the essays dealt with his views on homosexuality and how he felt he was being wrongfully attacked.

The crux of his argument was the most pedantic piece of crap logic I have ever seen. It distills to, "They keep calling me a homophobe, but, psychologically homophobia is a rare condition (like arachnaphobia) where someone has the irrational fear of even being in the presense of a so-called homosexual. In fact, I do not have that very rare condition, and it is dishonest of them to smear their critics with such an innacurrate word. Therefore, the practicers of these so-called* 'alternative lifestyles' are utterly dishonest in arguing their position."

Even as a full-on true believing Mormon I rolled my eyes at the pedantry.

*the Mormon leadership has, for decades, used the phrase "so-called alternative lifestyles" when referring to homosexuality. Bonus: they also use the phrase "so-called intellectuals" when rebutting critics of Mormonism
 
2013-07-13 02:10:57 PM

Inaditch: If you can't separate the artist from their art, you won't be able to enjoy a lot of the greatest experiences this world has to offer.

Some examples: Da Vinci was a convicted rapist. Picasso was a well known Nazi sympathizer. John Steinbeck allegedly had a thing for little boys. Mozart was a serial arsonist and liked to urinate in libraries.

Genius often comes at the expense of sanity.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-13 02:11:47 PM

MurphyMurphy: Hey, the more people jammed up about some perceived bullshiat, the less crowded the theater when I go to see it.


You mean him advocating for violent revolution against the government if same-sex marriage is legalized nationwide?  It's pretty blatant rhetoric, not some vague bullshiat.

Also you giving Orson Scott Card money means you are basically giving money to anti-gay organizations.  So if you're fine with giving money to organizations that want to roll back years of progress in LGBT rights, then that just makes you a horrible person, that's all.

As for myself, I did enjoy the book and want to see the movie, so I will be getting the torrent without the slightest hint of regret.
 
2013-07-13 02:12:34 PM

jake_lex: Before this goes any further, I should point out that the controversy isn't so much just about the fact that Orson Scott Card is a Mormon (I accidentally typed "Moron" and thought about leaving it that way) or that he doesn't like gay people.  It's that he's actively worked for hate organizations like the National Organization of Marriage.


i172.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-13 02:13:31 PM
Ender's Game supports War, I'm against War, I'm going to Boycott Ender's Game!!!!
 
2013-07-13 02:28:36 PM
Does anyone feel the same about Roman Polanski?
 
2013-07-13 02:34:09 PM
Genius often comes at the expense of sanity.

But it never comes in a work of OSC


/hey, I like some of his stuff.  But genius?
//the closest would be his early short stories.  Some of those were great
 
2013-07-13 02:35:38 PM
The book was meh - very predictable.

When I was 12, I actually met Card IRL when he gave a reading at the local University. Card is like a crazed street preacher. Before the reading, he railed on for 30 plus mintues about "The Dreaded Homosexual Menace." When folks got bored and started leaving he shouted insults at them. Card read for about 15 minutes before he started signing autographs.

/Very dissapointing.
//I liked Ender's Game.
///Gonna wait for it to trickle down to Amazon Prime's free videos before I watch it.
 
2013-07-13 02:42:22 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: //Back then, I liked Ender's Game.


I wish we could edit posts.

/FTFM
 
2013-07-13 02:49:38 PM
My concerns about this film start and end with "Holy crap Harrison Ford sounds terrible".
 
2013-07-13 02:50:18 PM

dehehn: Also you giving Orson Scott Card money means you are basically giving money to anti-gay organizations.  So if you're fine with giving money to organizations that want to roll back years of progress in LGBT rights, then that just makes you a horrible person, that's all.


No it doesn't, or only if you view everything in terms of purity and impurity or give certain issues priority over others.

You've never seen a Roman Polanski film, I assume, as he raped a girl and never served his time for it. You avoid Scorsese movies, because they feature Phil Spector songs, and Spector is a convicted murderer.
 
2013-07-13 02:59:33 PM
Reasons not to see the movie:

1) Card wrote a long article to go along with one of the printings of his books (I heard it on the audiobook) talking about why Ender's Game hadn't yet been made into a movie.  What it came down to was that every studio that wanted to make the movie wanted to portray ender as a teenager, and that in Card's view, portraying ender as anything other than 8-10 years old would completely ruin the story.  So.  By Card's own criteria, given the age of the actor playing Ender, he's allowed the story to be trashed.

2) Yes his political and monetary support of groups opposed to marriage equality matter to me.  Stuff like that didn't used to.  But the older I get, the more I get into the mode of "I will speak with my dollars on issues that are important to me."  This issue matters to me, and if I can be one tiny drop in the bucket of sending a message that this type of bigotry has consequences, then sure, I'll forego seeing what could be a decent movie (despite #1 above).
 
2013-07-13 03:21:25 PM

Inaditch: If you can't separate the artist from their art, you won't be able to enjoy a lot of the greatest experiences this world has to offer.

Some examples: Da Vinci was a convicted rapist. Picasso was a well known Nazi sympathizer. John Steinbeck allegedly had a thing for little boys. Mozart was a serial arsonist and liked to urinate in libraries.

Genius often comes at the expense of sanity.



I put this into the same category as buying Gary Glitter albums.

Going to ITunes and buying his Best Of puts money in his pocket.  Which he will use to buy a plane ticket to Thailand.  Where he will abuse children.  I refuse to do this.

If, however, Gary Glitter somehow recorded a brilliant album in 2013, then died, I would have no problem buying it after his death.  He can do no more harm on this earth, and the hypothetical great album can live on independent of the scum who created it.

Kind of like books written by Martin Heidegger, too.  He's dead, can do no more harm, and his brilliant philosophy lives on.

So, in summary, if OSC were to die while his movie is in theatres, I would think about going to see it.  Otherwise, pending his good health, I'll catch it on Netflix.
 
2013-07-13 03:23:53 PM
I think Ender's Game was a brilliant novel.
That I will in no way admit to torrenting.
 
2013-07-13 03:45:38 PM
Warning: spoiler for the book in this post.

I'm not going to see the film but I might watch it if it get on netflix or similar. I did not know about his support for hate groups when I picked my user name and even less when I bought the enders game series of book.

With that said:
FTA: the film not only transports viewers to an entertaining and action-filled world, but it does so with positive and inspiring characters who ultimately deliver an ennobling and life-affirming message.

It's been a while since I read the book but doesn't it end with tricking a kid (Ender) into committing genocide?
 
2013-07-13 04:21:20 PM

Revek: Don't care I'm going to see it.  I liked the book.  I read books whose authors are douches all the time.  You want to stop supporting people that truly take our freedoms then you would have to forgo all media since they steal from us everyday.
learn who you Should hate


No sale I love GRRM who is a as big an asshole as it is possible to be but there is world of difference between being a prick and financing and actively participating in the intentional disenfranchisement and degradation of minorities. I'm sick of hearing this stupid shiat however you wanna say you're still supporting hate mongers which in my opinion makes worth even less than they are. At least they can man up and own their beliefs instead of making up pseudo-intellectual bullshiat to justify why its ok to support hate.
 
2013-07-13 04:22:50 PM

unlikely: Card has already made his millions off of Ender. A massive boycott won't hurt him.

What it WILL hurt is all the other people who put a lot of sweat into making the film.


On the other hand, if it does well, people will want to pay him more for rights to the other books so they can make sequels.
 
2013-07-13 04:24:27 PM
I have problem with authors in particular who have bizarre or awful views, more than I would a painter or a musician or something. When you read a book, really get into it, you're sort of placing your trust in the person who created this world. You kind of share a mindspace for awhile. You trust the writer to bring you places and make you think of things and entertain you. When you find out this person is a raging lunatic, that trust becomes a lot harder to achieve and it colors everything they write.
 
2013-07-13 04:32:31 PM

Marcus Aurelius: I still say you can't have a name like Orson Scott Card and NOT be gay.  It's not possible.  Otherwise people would just call him Scottie.


This.

Also, author of the article: Drew McWeeny
 
2013-07-13 04:35:13 PM

Howie Spankowitz: Well, this will ensure that the "christians" will see this movie in droves.


Christians lol. Someone should force them to sit down and watch that zeitgeist video. It should be mandatory for any religious wingnut.
 
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