If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   Israel has a new Prisoner X after the last one killed himself   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 116
    More: Hero, Prisoner X, Avigdor Lieberman, Knesset, justice ministry, Danny Ayalon, Israeli citizen, prisoners, gag orders  
•       •       •

3648 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Jul 2013 at 12:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



116 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-12 11:25:42 AM
I am not a letter, I am a free man!
 
2013-07-12 11:40:59 AM
Its a shame the US no longer holds the high ground on secret prisons and secret prisoners.

And its sad that after centuries of oppression of their own people by others,  Israel would allow this to happen.
 
2013-07-12 12:09:43 PM
 
1.bp.blogspot.com


FREE TERMINATOR X!
 
2013-07-12 12:11:47 PM
The Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which revealed his identity in February, later said he had unwittingly sabotaged a secret operation to return the bodies of Israeli soldiers missing in Lebanon back to Israel.

They imprisoned him to what amounted as a death sentence, without contact to his family or lawyers, because he accidentally botched an operation to recover DEAD BODIES?

Israel shrill and your alt accounts, defend this.
 
2013-07-12 12:20:19 PM

Satanic_Hamster: The Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which revealed his identity in February, later said he had unwittingly sabotaged a secret operation to return the bodies of Israeli soldiers missing in Lebanon back to Israel.

They imprisoned him to what amounted as a death sentence, without contact to his family or lawyers, because he accidentally botched an operation to recover DEAD BODIES?

Israel shrill and your alt accounts, defend this.


Yeah, kinda makes you doubt the "much more grave" circumstances of the other guy. What'd he do, mix dairy and meat at the Swiss embassy?
 
2013-07-12 12:23:42 PM

Satanic_Hamster: They imprisoned him to what amounted as a death sentence, without contact to his family or lawyers,


I know next to nothing about this, but those allegations are directly denied in the article "'There are indeed no disappeared prisoners in Israel whose families don't know of their arrest. Nor are there disappeared prisoners whose cases aren't handled by the legal authorities.'" Also, since the dead guy had a lawyer, it seems like he was able to speak with him at some point.

Now, the dude may be lying about there being no disappeared prisoners, but right now the burden of proof is on you.
 
2013-07-12 12:25:13 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Satanic_Hamster: The Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which revealed his identity in February, later said he had unwittingly sabotaged a secret operation to return the bodies of Israeli soldiers missing in Lebanon back to Israel.

They imprisoned him to what amounted as a death sentence, without contact to his family or lawyers, because he accidentally botched an operation to recover DEAD BODIES?

Israel shrill and your alt accounts, defend this.

Yeah, kinda makes you doubt the "much more grave" circumstances of the other guy. What'd he do, mix dairy and meat at the Swiss embassy?




He worked on shabbos.
 
2013-07-12 12:27:47 PM

Satanic_Hamster: They imprisoned him to what amounted as a death sentence, without contact to his family or lawyers, because he accidentally botched an operation to recover DEAD BODIES?


No.  However watching anti-Israel shills and their alts vent some hate is amusing so let's assume you're right. Carry on.
 
2013-07-12 12:32:12 PM

TappingTheVein: Satanic_Hamster: They imprisoned him to what amounted as a death sentence, without contact to his family or lawyers, because he accidentally botched an operation to recover DEAD BODIES?

No.  However watching anti-Israel shills and their alts vent some hate is amusing so let's assume you're right. Carry on.


You sure? Cause that's what TFA said happened.
 
2013-07-12 12:37:45 PM

cameroncrazy1984: You sure? Cause that's what TFA said happened.


Yes, i'm sure. TFA mentioned one detail, shockingly, there are more.
 
2013-07-12 12:37:51 PM

dittybopper: I am not a letter, I am a free man!


Maybe it's a Roman numeral.
 
2013-07-12 12:39:11 PM

TappingTheVein: cameroncrazy1984: You sure? Cause that's what TFA said happened.

Yes, i'm sure. TFA mentioned one detail, shockingly, there are more.


Those all appear to be "theories" and not "details"
 
2013-07-12 12:41:31 PM

They're imprisoning mutants now?

comicbooked.comicbookedllc.netdna-cdn.com
RIP PROFESSOR X
 
2013-07-12 12:41:33 PM

nmrsnr: I know next to nothing about this, but those allegations are directly denied in the article "'There are indeed no disappeared prisoners in Israel whose families don't know of their arrest. Nor are there disappeared prisoners whose cases aren't handled by the legal authorities.'" Also, since the dead guy had a lawyer, it seems like he was able to speak with him at some point.

Now, the dude may be lying about there being no disappeared prisoners, but right now the burden of proof is on you.


We have their word that the secret prisoner who's guards weren't even allowed to know his name had access to lawyers and judges.  Right.

If his family knew he was imprisoned, then what's the point of keeping it secret from the Israeli justice department, government, and prison guards?
 
2013-07-12 12:42:03 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Those all appear to be "theories" and not "details"


And you base your data on "A Foreign Correspondent investigation".
I'll take what his lawyer and family claimed before that one. It was treason.
 
2013-07-12 12:43:35 PM

cameroncrazy1984: TappingTheVein: cameroncrazy1984: You sure? Cause that's what TFA said happened.

Yes, i'm sure. TFA mentioned one detail, shockingly, there are more.

Those all appear to be "theories" and not "details"


But they fit my world view!
 
2013-07-12 12:45:07 PM
No one has questioned the "Hero" tag?  What's that all about?
 
2013-07-12 12:45:36 PM
Prisoner Y being held captive by the Israelis?

comicbook.com
 
2013-07-12 12:49:30 PM

TappingTheVein: cameroncrazy1984: Those all appear to be "theories" and not "details"

And you base your data on "A Foreign Correspondent investigation".
I'll take what his lawyer and family claimed before that one. It was treason.


You mean the one that said he "maintained his innocence"? That one?
 
2013-07-12 12:50:52 PM

cameroncrazy1984: TappingTheVein: cameroncrazy1984: You sure? Cause that's what TFA said happened.

Yes, i'm sure. TFA mentioned one detail, shockingly, there are more.

Those all appear to be "theories" and not "details"



To be fair to TTV (words I'd never ever thought I would type), there are several theories being put forth by several parties.
--The ABC amd Der Spiegel says it was due to revealing a mole's name during an attempt to recruit another mole.
--AL-Jarida claims he was selling agent names to Dubai.
--The Brisbane Times says it was due to him being a whistleblower over Mossad's use of stolen passports.
 
2013-07-12 12:52:00 PM

Satanic_Hamster: We have their word that the secret prisoner who's guards weren't even allowed to know his name had access to lawyers and judges.  Right.

If his family knew he was imprisoned, then what's the point of keeping it secret from the Israeli justice department, government, and prison guards?


He had a lawyer, who met with him when he was imprisoned under a false name. His identity was kept secret under court order.
I can go own, especially about the wife part but you get it: you don't know what you're talking about.
 
2013-07-12 12:52:19 PM

Satanic_Hamster: We have their word that the secret prisoner who's guards weren't even allowed to know his name had access to lawyers and judges.  Right.


Yes, what evidence do you have that this was not the case?

Satanic_Hamster: If his family knew he was imprisoned, then what's the point of keeping it secret from the Israeli justice department, government, and prison guards?


To stop it from leaking to the press? Also, how can the government lock him up, and the justice department try him, if they are keeping it a secret from themselves? The only people who seem to have actually been kept in the dark were his guards. From the wiki that TappingTheVein pointed out, his own lawyer said that the government put up no obstacles in getting to confer with his client, or that his client was being mistreated. So really it just seems like he was being treated like any other prisoner (in solitary confinement), only nobody outside of the those who needed to know knew his real identity or what the charges against him were. Which is unusual, but not "disappearing" people.
 
2013-07-12 12:52:25 PM

lilbjorn: No one has questioned the "Hero" tag?  What's that all about?


My guess? Sarcasm.
 
2013-07-12 12:52:44 PM
Don't know who the prisoner is?
Don't know if he's been convicted of anything?
Guarding people because that's what you were told to do, though you haven't a clue why, or what the bigger picture is?

You'd think of all people, the Jewish people would be the most reticent to do something this stupid.
 
2013-07-12 12:52:52 PM

TappingTheVein: cameroncrazy1984: Those all appear to be "theories" and not "details"

And you base your data on "A Foreign Correspondent investigation".
I'll take what his lawyer and family claimed before that one. It was treason.


No where in the links you posted had any accusations of treason.

If it was an accusation of treason why would there not be a public trial?

There was no trial however, therefore dude was innocent.
 
2013-07-12 12:55:55 PM

TappingTheVein: Satanic_Hamster: We have their word that the secret prisoner who's guards weren't even allowed to know his name had access to lawyers and judges.  Right.

If his family knew he was imprisoned, then what's the point of keeping it secret from the Israeli justice department, government, and prison guards?

He had a lawyer, who met with him when he was imprisoned under a false name. His identity was kept secret under court order.
I can go own, especially about the wife part but you get it: you don't know what you're talking about.


So how do you know all about the "TRUTH"  regarding secret prisoners? Or is it just you taking someones word for it because it fits how you want the world to work?
 
2013-07-12 12:58:33 PM

cameroncrazy1984: You mean the one that said he "maintained his innocence"? That one?


Because this is the first time a guilty man claimed he is innocent!
He committed treason, this is not a big secret now.
 
2013-07-12 01:00:18 PM

Rozotorical: No where in the links you posted had any accusations of treason.


There was a mention of a theory that he was shopping Mossad names to Dubai. The wiki points to here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4344978,00.html

The same sources noted that following the mission, Zygier contacted the government in Dubai and updated them on the details of the assassination in exchange for protection. The sources also said that Israel managed to uncover Zygier's hiding place and kidnapped and jailed him for treason. The report has not been confirmed by any other sources. (Elior Levy)


It's all anonymously sourced, unlike the theory that Der Spiegel and The Guadian are persuing, but it's out there as a possibility.
 
2013-07-12 01:04:23 PM

Rozotorical: If it was an accusation of treason why would there not be a public trial?


Because of court ordered censorship due to the nature of the guy's accusation.

Rozotorical: There was no trial however, therefore dude was innocent.


Technically- sure he was innocent. He also provided Lebanon/Hizballah with names of Mossad operatives in Lebanon.

Rozotorical: So how do you know all about the "TRUTH"  regarding secret prisoners? Or is it just you taking someones word for it because it fits how you want the world to work?


After his death and when the court allowed the press to reveal what was under censorship up until then, the information became available to the media in my country.
 
2013-07-12 01:05:30 PM
Either way, they shouldn't have made Toby Ziegler kill himself.
 
2013-07-12 01:12:09 PM

Rozotorical: So how do you know all about the "TRUTH" regarding secret prisoners? Or is it just you taking someones word for it because it fits how you want the world to work?


The Israeli government said so, and they would never lie about this, even after lying about this.
 
2013-07-12 01:13:57 PM
americanbuilt.us

Essential reading.  Glad the Israeli government was unable to block it's publication, because it points out all sorts of bullshiat and tactics...some of which we get to see in every Israel-related thread on Fark for some reason.  Wonder why...
 
2013-07-12 01:17:25 PM

Satanic_Hamster: The Israeli government said so, and they would never lie about this, even after lying about this.


Um, no, the media was allowed to publish the story after they fought the court order censorship. But hey, who gives a crap about actual facts, so far you don't seem to.
 
2013-07-12 01:24:33 PM

TappingTheVein: Rozotorical: If it was an accusation of treason why would there not be a public trial?

Because of court ordered censorship due to the nature of the guy's accusation.

Rozotorical: There was no trial however, therefore dude was innocent.

Technically- sure he was innocent. He also provided Lebanon/Hizballah with names of Mossad operatives in Lebanon.

Rozotorical: So how do you know all about the "TRUTH"  regarding secret prisoners? Or is it just you taking someones word for it because it fits how you want the world to work?

After his death and when the court allowed the press to reveal what was under censorship up until then, the information became available to the media in my country.


Ok, based on that statement, I assume you believe he provided the Lebanon moles that he was attempting to recruit to become an Israeli mole, information about another mole all while covertly operating in Australia.  please correct me if I am wrong I am assuming this based on the posted link.

How do you know he provided this information? Are you getting this information from a third party who is not involved?

What were the circumstance involved if it did happen?

If a spy agency claims someone did something, should we believe the same agency we already know to readily practice deception?

Are you comfortable with that the idea that safety supersedes your right to a public trial?

What would have come up in the trial if the moles were already exposed that prevented him from having a basic right?

What are the benefits to a public trial that ensures the law is upheld?

Can you think of situations in the past when secret trails have been held that have turned out to be giant farces?

Is it more likely that they were afraid of what the trial would expose about the Institute to the international community?
 
2013-07-12 01:38:13 PM

TappingTheVein: R

Rozotorical: There was no trial however, therefore dude was innocent.

Technically- sure he was innocent. He also provided Lebanon/Hizballah with names of Mossad operatives in Lebanon.



Have you seen any actual evidence of this, or is an assertion from the government enough to convince you of guilt?
 
2013-07-12 01:49:06 PM

TappingTheVein: the media was allowed to publish the story


Got a link?
 
2013-07-12 01:53:31 PM

TappingTheVein: Satanic_Hamster: The Israeli government said so, and they would never lie about this, even after lying about this.

Um, no, the media was allowed to publish the story after they fought the court order censorship. But hey, who gives a crap about actual facts, so far you don't seem to.


The media seems a rather broad statement. I doubt there was an organic collusion of all newscasters relentlessly working together to uncover the truth. I assume it is a lot like it have become over most of the world.

Bare bone unquestioned "facts" reported by a single person citing a single source. Then the other companies that offer a "news" product sensationalize this story with constant carefully worded diatribes meant to titillate the consumer which will then allow the company hourly broadcast speculations regarding the meaning of the gossip about the information someone else reported that they heard from somebody.

  So who are the reporters that found what information? If you believe you do have facts, we can discuss them.

I personal believe, it is fair game to question the source of the facts to determine the likely hood I am being provided accurate information.
 
2013-07-12 01:53:46 PM

Rozotorical: Ok, based on that statement, I assume you believe he provided the Lebanon moles that he was attempting to recruit to become an Israeli mole, information about another mole all while covertly operating in Australia.  please correct me if I am wrong I am assuming this based on the posted link.


All the info published by the media in my country including about the court order censorship, with links to sources, use Google translate.

Rozotorical: How do you know he provided this information? Are you getting this information from a third party who is not involved?


I'm getting my information from the media in my country, his lawyer and what his family said about him. by the way, he killed himself the day his wife told him she was leaving him. The media in my country is 'not involved', in fact they fought the censorship about this and published articles on it back in June 2010.

Rozotorical: What were the circumstance involved if it did happen?

If a spy agency claims someone did something, should we believe the same agency we already know to readily practice deception?


Since i'm not basing my information on 'the agency', this is irrelevant.

Rozotorical: Are you comfortable with that the idea that safety supersedes your right to a public trial?


Yes, based on the nature of the man's accusations. From my link you can see that he was allowed to meet a lawyer since day one and the court order censorship was used due to his work and accusations.

Rozotorical: What would have come up in the trial if the moles were already exposed that prevented him from having a basic right?


Um, you want me to predict the future of an alternate reality ?

Rozotorical: What are the benefits to a public trial that ensures the law is upheld?


Lots of nice benefits. When national security is not at risk.

Rozotorical: Can you think of situations in the past when secret trails have been held that have turned out to be giant farces?


His trial wasn't held yet, he was represented by a lawyer, his family knew where he was and what he did and kept quiet out of embarrassment, all is known after the court order gag was removed, how is this relevant to what happened again ?

Rozotorical: Is it more likely that they were afraid of what the trial would expose about the Institute to the international community?


Oh i have no doubt about it. I believe i read it on Ynet, a news website in my country, after the court order was lifted, that there were major farkups in using this guy, who apparently wasn't very bright, as a Mossad spy. Still doesn't change the fact that he was imprisoned for treason.
 
2013-07-12 01:54:03 PM
I'm kinda surprised they don't go through Prisoner Xs like Al Queda goes through Number 2s.
 
2013-07-12 01:56:15 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Have you seen any actual evidence of this, or is an assertion from the government enough to convince you of guilt?


Irrelevant because i didn't base it on 'assertion from the government' but on what the media, his family and foreign reports claimed.
 
2013-07-12 01:56:56 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Got a link?


Yes.
 
2013-07-12 01:58:33 PM
I heard the Israelis had an explosive press conference at the King David Hotel...

www.etzel.org.il

where they weren't at Liberty to discuss any details...

www.ussliberty.org
 
2013-07-12 01:58:41 PM

TappingTheVein: Philip Francis Queeg: Have you seen any actual evidence of this, or is an assertion from the government enough to convince you of guilt?

Irrelevant because i didn't base it on 'assertion from the government' but on what the media, his family and foreign reports claimed.


"Claimed" or "provided evidence of"?
 
2013-07-12 02:01:36 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: I heard the Israelis had an explosive press conference at the King David Hotel...


Favorite anti-Israel turds are coming out of the woodwork! this is great.
 
2013-07-12 02:02:04 PM
Wouldn't that make him Prisoner XI?
 
2013-07-12 02:03:39 PM
I Assume He Killed Himself Because He Found Out Rick Perry Was Coming To Israel.
 
2013-07-12 02:06:44 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: "Claimed" or "provided evidence of"?


You must be new to how the media in my country and the government get along.
 
2013-07-12 02:10:02 PM
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net

// unofficial file photo
 
2013-07-12 02:11:13 PM

TappingTheVein: Philip Francis Queeg: "Claimed" or "provided evidence of"?

You must be new to how the media in my country and the government get along.


So you haven't seen any actual evidence to support your pronouncement that he was guilty of treason?
 
2013-07-12 02:16:31 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: So you haven't seen any actual evidence to support your pronouncement that he was guilty of treason?


Beside foreign investigation, local media investigations and his own family's and lawyer reports ?
The director of Mossad was too busy to come to my house for debriefing with video evidence of him talking to Hizballah.
 
Displayed 50 of 116 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report