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(MacRumors)   Surface RT sales are so great that Microsoft felt bad for those who didn't own one, so they slashed the price   (macrumors.com) divider line 133
    More: Obvious, Surface RT, Microsoft, reverse transcriptases, touchpad, ipad minis, Surface Pro, strokes, Zune  
•       •       •

6071 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Jul 2013 at 12:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



133 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-12 12:46:32 AM  
I can say it wasn't the price that was keeping me away, personally
 
2013-07-12 12:51:35 AM  
None of these tablets should cost over $200.  Talk about obscene.
 
2013-07-12 12:52:24 AM  
Or they're looking to unload stock before updating both the RT and Pro with the latest processors in the next month or two . . . as the last paragraph suggests.
 
2013-07-12 12:53:46 AM  
I'd still love to get a Surface Pro.  At home, I use OneNote with a Wacom Bamboo and wonder how I've lived this long without them.  I wish I could afford a Surface Pro with Office to take to class.

I'm a man who loves a stylus.  Especially in math classes!

//Say what you will about M$, but OneNote rocks!
 
2013-07-12 12:56:53 AM  
I love my Surface Pro.  I wouldn't touch an RT.
 
2013-07-12 12:58:57 AM  
Wait for the third edition of the Surface, they will probably have it semi-good by then.
 
2013-07-12 01:08:25 AM  
But the commercials were so good!
 
2013-07-12 01:11:52 AM  
the surface pro is amazing. the RT is idiotic
 
2013-07-12 01:22:09 AM  
They're both junk, and I wouldn't buy one if it was $25.  Saying it's "amazing" is like saying McDonald's is "amazing" when you've never been to a sit-down restaurant.
 
2013-07-12 01:26:55 AM  
Logically, they would be similarly priced with iPads, so around $600 for the base models. However, if I wanted an iPad I'd get an iPad. Dicking around with a device that doesn't support any of the apps I want is a waste of time.

Now sell it at the Nexus 7 price point and you've got yourself a deal.
 
2013-07-12 01:30:55 AM  
Well, that was kind of them.
 
2013-07-12 01:34:32 AM  
Surface pro rocks. I use it for everything but gaming, where I use my laptop. I know two other people who do exactly the same thing. Rt on the other hand was a terrible mistake.
 
2013-07-12 01:40:16 AM  
Microsoft's big mistake was not basing their ARM tablet OS off of Windows Phone 8 instead of slapping what amounts to a second OS environment on top of regular Windows 8. If they had done that, they would have had a much better performing tablet OS and better app support for both the tablets and the phone. Plus they could have back-ported the tablet OS enhancements to the phones so that when Windows Phone 8 launched it would have seemed less like a small update to Windows Phone 7 to the end users (even though it really is a much bigger update under the hood).

Tablet hardware is getting so cheap these days, and the use cases are so dissimilar, that it makes no sense to try to create the computer equivalent of the Homermobile, which does a half-assed job at being a tablet and a PC. I'd much rather have a thin, light, tablet around 9" in size with great battery life and a separate non-touchscreen Ultrabook with a 13" screen and a great keyboard, than one 10" combo machine that is hard to hold one one hand for tablet usage and is awkward to use with a mouse and keyboard because Windows 8 has been optimized for touch.

I use the computer for CREATING content, which means a lot of work with the mouse and keyboard, while I use a tablet for CONSUMING content which means I like having a nice high resolution touch screen that is easy to hold for long periods of reading or watching a movie. There's just no real way to combine them and not have a machine that  sucks in some important ways (the Surface Pro is too heavy for tablet use and the keyboard covers aren't as good as a regular keyboard, and it feels really awkward to hold it as a tablet with the touch cover bent back so you are touching the keyboard when you hold it). There's a tiny number of people doing art, graphic design, or marking up engineering drawings that can really use a Surface Pro for what they do, but for most of us it doesn't make sense to have that hybrid OS, which is why most tablets were a niche item until the iPad rethought tablets as a consumption device.

Apple has the right idea with keeping their tablet and PCs very different in terms of the OS and how they run. Microsoft got so obsessed in creating one OS to rule them all that they wound up half-assing the tablet side of things, and they also ruined Windows on the PC. Windows 7 was great and if they had just added the under the hood tweaks of Windows 8 without Metro I would have been happy. I really think that Windows 8/RT will go down as the biggest mistake Microsoft ever made, one that it will be hard to recover from because it seems like it has lost them a chance to win back the phone and tablet market, and has created issues for them in the PC market. Yes, they still have a lot of other businesses to fall back on, but they missed a huge opportunity by not going with a mobile optimized OS for their tablets.
 
2013-07-12 01:47:14 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Microsoft's big mistake was not basing their ARM tablet OS off of Windows Phone 8 instead of slapping what amounts to a second OS environment on top of regular Windows 8. If they had done that, they would have had a much better performing tablet OS and better app support for both the tablets and the phone. Plus they could have back-ported the tablet OS enhancements to the phones so that when Windows Phone 8 launched it would have seemed less like a small update to Windows Phone 7 to the end users (even though it really is a much bigger update under the hood).

Tablet hardware is getting so cheap these days, and the use cases are so dissimilar, that it makes no sense to try to create the computer equivalent of the Homermobile, which does a half-assed job at being a tablet and a PC. I'd much rather have a thin, light, tablet around 9" in size with great battery life and a separate non-touchscreen Ultrabook with a 13" screen and a great keyboard, than one 10" combo machine that is hard to hold one one hand for tablet usage and is awkward to use with a mouse and keyboard because Windows 8 has been optimized for touch.

I use the computer for CREATING content, which means a lot of work with the mouse and keyboard, while I use a tablet for CONSUMING content which means I like having a nice high resolution touch screen that is easy to hold for long periods of reading or watching a movie. There's just no real way to combine them and not have a machine that  sucks in some important ways (the Surface Pro is too heavy for tablet use and the keyboard covers aren't as good as a regular keyboard, and it feels really awkward to hold it as a tablet with the touch cover bent back so you are touching the keyboard when you hold it). There's a tiny number of people doing art, graphic design, or marking up engineering drawings that can really use a Surface Pro for what they do, but for most of us it doesn't make sense to have that hybrid OS, which is why most tablets were a niche item u ...


You have to also point the finger back at the geek market who was salivating over an ARM-based, non-toy OS. When Longhorn was demoed on the ARM board a couple years back, the crowd went wild. Low power consumption, cheaper hardware, lighter devices, what's not to like. But at that time, if you were paying any attention, you'd have noticed that everyone seemed to be getting the idea that you could run standard Windows apps on RT. And Microsoft wasn't working all that hard on dispelling that myth.

So it came out with the same shiatty Windows 8 OS as Surface Pro except it can't run any standard apps and there doesn't seem to be a very large developer base clamoring to build apps for it.

Microsoft made the mistake of listening to fickle geeks and didn't spend enough time moderating expectations. They are ultimately at fault, but the market really gave off tons of miscues that Microsoft thought were actual market needs.
 
2013-07-12 01:51:10 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Logically, they would be similarly priced with iPads, so around $600 for the base models. However, if I wanted an iPad I'd get an iPad. Dicking around with a device that doesn't support any of the apps I want is a waste of time.

Now sell it at the Nexus 7 price point and you've got yourself a deal.


That illustrates another problem they have with Windows RT. Because it is packing a full version of Windows despite not being able to run regular WIndows apps, the OS eats up about 14-15 GB of storage space of the tablet, so a 32 GB Surface is equivalent to a 16 GB iPad when it comes to usable space. It is a little better now that the SD cards are actually usable in 8.1 (before removable storage could not be added to a Library so Metro apps could not see the storage). Plus, being a full Windows installation, it probably also has that winsxs folder that is the bane of anyone who has an SSD, the folder that slowly grows to eat up multiple GBs of drive space. Because of this you run into the problem that it is REALLY hard to run Windows on 32 GB or 64 GB of flash memory and still have space to do anything useful. Because of that, Windows devices have to add more memory to be competitive, which drives up the cost.
 
2013-07-12 02:01:35 AM  

tlchwi02: the surface pro is amazing. the RT is idiotic


Even better is the Dell XPS 18. I love this thing.
 
2013-07-12 02:02:12 AM  

Harry_Seldon: tlchwi02: the surface pro is amazing. the RT is idiotic

Even better is the Dell XPS 18. I love this thing.


www.theinquirer.net
 
2013-07-12 02:13:22 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Microsoft's big mistake was not basing their ARM tablet OS off of Windows Phone 8 instead of slapping what amounts to a second OS environment on top of regular Windows 8. If they had done that, they would have had a much better performing tablet OS and better app support for both the tablets and the phone. Plus they could have back-ported the tablet OS enhancements to the phones so that when Windows Phone 8 launched it would have seemed less like a small update to Windows Phone 7 to the end users (even though it really is a much bigger update under the hood).

Tablet hardware is getting so cheap these days, and the use cases are so dissimilar, that it makes no sense to try to create the computer equivalent of the Homermobile, which does a half-assed job at being a tablet and a PC. I'd much rather have a thin, light, tablet around 9" in size with great battery life and a separate non-touchscreen Ultrabook with a 13" screen and a great keyboard, than one 10" combo machine that is hard to hold one one hand for tablet usage and is awkward to use with a mouse and keyboard because Windows 8 has been optimized for touch.

I use the computer for CREATING content, which means a lot of work with the mouse and keyboard, while I use a tablet for CONSUMING content which means I like having a nice high resolution touch screen that is easy to hold for long periods of reading or watching a movie. There's just no real way to combine them and not have a machine that  sucks in some important ways (the Surface Pro is too heavy for tablet use and the keyboard covers aren't as good as a regular keyboard, and it feels really awkward to hold it as a tablet with the touch cover bent back so you are touching the keyboard when you hold it). There's a tiny number of people doing art, graphic design, or marking up engineering drawings that can really use a Surface Pro for what they do, but for most of us it doesn't make sense to have that hybrid OS, which is why most tablets were a niche item u ...


TL:Dzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
2013-07-12 02:27:34 AM  
The problem was not asking me about the designation RT. ReTarded. Duh, that would have been $20k, instead of the $20 million thrown into that product line.

Toss me another $20k for the Xbone. farking marketers blind to mocking comments because everyone is afraid to speak up.
 
2013-07-12 02:30:21 AM  
Turns out most people don't look at their laptop and say "Gee, I wish this were awkwardly shaped, kinda slow, had a lousy keyboard, and required a kickstand for some reason."
How could Microsoft have known that?
 
2013-07-12 02:42:42 AM  
Despite this link being from something called Mac Rumors, I'm actually willing to take it at face value.

But as far as I can tell, all of these tablet things suck ass. A ten inch screen? Only double digit hard memory? F*ck you. I'll buy one when it can actually match my much cheaper and more durable (and upgradable) laptop in both screen size and storage.
 
2013-07-12 02:48:29 AM  

Handsome B. Wonderful: I love my Surface Pro.  I wouldn't touch an RT.


Why not?  I love my RT.  Sure, it chugs a little occasionally, as do Android tablets built on the same architecture, but I get a solid 8 hours of battery life out of it.  The touch keyboard is awesome once you get used to it.  People biatch about the Desktop mode being locked down to just the ARM version of Office, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've even needed to use the Desktop mode.  Everything else I want to do is in the browser or in Windows 8 apps.

Admittedly, mine was free (employment has its privileges), and I thought pricing it the same as the iPad was a mistake.  The new price is much more on target.

I'm running Windows RT 8.1 preview on my Surface at the moment.  The improvements are many and very welcome.  And yes, for you diehard desktop peeps, you can boot to desktop now.  The Start button is back, and while you don't have your Start Menu back, the Start Screen has been vastly improved.

And before I'm accused of being a shill:  Yes, I do respond to Microsoft threads like a dog whistle.  I love my company.  It's not perfect, but it has a great culture and we generally make some really cool stuff, even if there are some missteps (particularly in marketing).

/Disclaimer - my own opinions, not Microsoft's
 
2013-07-12 02:49:48 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Despite this link being from something called Mac Rumors, I'm actually willing to take it at face value.

But as far as I can tell, all of these tablet things suck ass. A ten inch screen? Only double digit hard memory? F*ck you. I'll buy one when it can actually match my much cheaper and more durable (and upgradable) laptop in both screen size and storage.


So there's this thing called the cloud...
 
2013-07-12 02:54:16 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Despite this link being from something called Mac Rumors, I'm actually willing to take it at face value.

But as far as I can tell, all of these tablet things suck ass. A ten inch screen? Only double digit hard memory? F*ck you. I'll buy one when it can actually match my much cheaper and more durable (and upgradable) laptop in both screen size and storage.


yeah. i used part of my income tax refund to get an ipad. ended up returning it a week later because i barely used it. laptop does everything i need.
 
2013-07-12 03:04:15 AM  

lewismarktwo: None of these tablets should cost over $200.  Talk about obscene.


If a 64GB 3G 350 ppi tablet should only cost $200, how much should the tablets that are actually priced at $200 cost?
 
2013-07-12 03:07:03 AM  
For those who, like me, are too lazy to read the article, I've bitten the bullet and clicked the link.

Here's the new pricing with discounts:
- Surface RT 32GB: $349.99
- Surface RT 64GB: $449.99
- Surface RT 32GB with Touch Cover: $449.99
- Surface RT 64GB with Touch Cover: $549.99
 
2013-07-12 03:21:47 AM  
I am still not convinced that this is the tablet for me.....maybe a few more commercials with dancing actors/models and showing me how this thing is the master of spreadsheets will do it.....can't get enough spreadsheets!
 
2013-07-12 03:45:08 AM  

Bloody Templar: So there's this thing called the cloud...


Which always works in the boonies . Yup.

 

foo monkey: But the commercials were so good!


Everyone involved in approving and making those should be drawn and quartered , repeatedly
 
2013-07-12 04:09:03 AM  

Bloody Templar: HotWingAgenda: Despite this link being from something called Mac Rumors, I'm actually willing to take it at face value.

But as far as I can tell, all of these tablet things suck ass. A ten inch screen? Only double digit hard memory? F*ck you. I'll buy one when it can actually match my much cheaper and more durable (and upgradable) laptop in both screen size and storage.

So there's this thing called the cloud...


The "cloud" doesn't have a 17 inch screen. Also, it's wildly insecure. Great for hosted servers for business purposes, contraindicated for personal use.
 
2013-07-12 04:14:38 AM  

Bloody Templar: And before I'm accused of being a shill:  Yes, I do respond to Microsoft threads like a dog whistle.  I love my company.  It's not perfect, but it has a great culture and we generally make some really cool stuff, even if there are some missteps (particularly in marketing).

/Disclaimer - my own opinions, not Microsoft's


Then why is it that any of this cool stuff you say Microsoft makes never winds up on store shelves? Seriously - there's just not that much going on up there in Redmond that the rest of the world sees as all that interesting. Surface RT might almost tempt me at $349, but when it's up against the Iconia W3 running proper Windows 8 for like $30 more?

Sure, the hardware for Surface devices is pretty good looking. Probably nice and high quality, sure. But there's nothing truly stellar about it, and Microsoft completely screwed the pooch in offering real value over going with a more established Android or iOS solution. Nobody likes Windows 8's "Modern" UI disaster, and they hinged the whole damn platform on "Hey, it runs like Windows!" when nobody really genuinely likes Windows. Don't get me wrong - I really despise Apple these days. And ChromeOS is just a nice quick and dirty little platform for getting online with a keyboard you can afford to lose. But Microsoft has been coasting on "We're #1, we're #1!" for years without really showing that the company has any kind of real vision that people might want to see.

Now, get me a Surface RT for $250, or $350-400 for one with the pressure sensitive stylus and we'll talk. Give me something to differentiate Microsoft's offerings from Google's, and Samsung's and Apple's, and everyone else.
 
2013-07-12 04:16:23 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: For those who, like me, are too lazy to read the article, I've bitten the bullet and clicked the link.

Here's the new pricing with discounts:
- Surface RT 32GB: $349.99
- Surface RT 64GB: $449.99
- Surface RT 32GB with Touch Cover: $449.99
- Surface RT 64GB with Touch Cover: $549.99


I don't see how they are still charging $100 for a farking keyboard/cover
 
2013-07-12 04:21:45 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: AverageAmericanGuy: For those who, like me, are too lazy to read the article, I've bitten the bullet and clicked the link.

Here's the new pricing with discounts:
- Surface RT 32GB: $349.99
- Surface RT 64GB: $449.99
- Surface RT 32GB with Touch Cover: $449.99
- Surface RT 64GB with Touch Cover: $549.99

I don't see how they are still charging $100 for a farking keyboard/cover


The prices on the keyboard covers aren't honestly all that bad, depending on the warranty you get. There are a lot of them out there for the iPad, etc. that cost as much of more. I think they'd be more appropriately priced at closer to $80, but Microsoft in its infinite "wisdom" seems to disagree.

The fundamental problem is that they're trying to create a premium product and have yet to learn that people will always see Microsoft as "the boring ones". So to break that mold, they need to offer a price/value proposition that positively obliterates the competition. With RT, they've done exactly the opposite.
 
2013-07-12 04:24:44 AM  
I expect PC's that are 10 months old to drop in price.
/The covers should be $50 or free IMHO
 
Xai
2013-07-12 05:05:46 AM  
I own a surface RT and I always found it to be very good. It seems to be like a netbook crossed with an ipad and I really like it's design - especially the keyboard cover.

I know people will say it's dumb, but it is more functional than an ipad IMO.
 
2013-07-12 05:10:06 AM  
Suppose for the sake of argument, that there was a manufacturer of ordinary, decent quality, USB keyboards and mice that sold for $50 a pair. Then, this manufacturer started to include a basic ARM CPU in the keyboard, one of those integrated system chips that had wireless, USB, basic video out, etc. The ports are added, along with out jacks for regular TV, and space for rechargable AA batteries. The whole deal is now cheaply manufactured and sold at a price of $99. It charges and/or runs over any USB port, it's still a real keyboard you can hook up to your PC, but it also can be carried away and attached to any monitor or TV that exists.

On the software side, it runs a tiny OS that manages wireless connections and supports standard USB peripherals. The OS can shut down a misbehaving program and is reasonably adept at proper memory management. It's totally open as well, the source code for these basic drivers are available, and anyone can write, download, compile, and run "apps" on the minimal OS. These apps have basic sandbox-design security so they can't access your email without permission, but can if you allow it. Furthermore, the specific multitasking environment is an app too, so you can dress up the windows like Windows, or different, or whatever.

Would that destroy most of Microsoft entirely? How could they compete with such a beast, assuming it really worked like I describe here, designed and tested by a few clever geeks without pretense towards taking over the world, but just built it to genuinely work right and be futureproofed?
 
2013-07-12 05:14:06 AM  

dangelder: Suppose for the sake of argument, that there was a manufacturer of ordinary, decent quality, USB keyboards and mice that sold for $50 a pair. Then, this manufacturer started to include a basic ARM CPU in the keyboard, one of those integrated system chips that had wireless, USB, basic video out, etc. The ports are added, along with out jacks for regular TV, and space for rechargable AA batteries. The whole deal is now cheaply manufactured and sold at a price of $99. It charges and/or runs over any USB port, it's still a real keyboard you can hook up to your PC, but it also can be carried away and attached to any monitor or TV that exists.

On the software side, it runs a tiny OS that manages wireless connections and supports standard USB peripherals. The OS can shut down a misbehaving program and is reasonably adept at proper memory management. It's totally open as well, the source code for these basic drivers are available, and anyone can write, download, compile, and run "apps" on the minimal OS. These apps have basic sandbox-design security so they can't access your email without permission, but can if you allow it. Furthermore, the specific multitasking environment is an app too, so you can dress up the windows like Windows, or different, or whatever.

Would that destroy most of Microsoft entirely? How could they compete with such a beast, assuming it really worked like I describe here, designed and tested by a few clever geeks without pretense towards taking over the world, but just built it to genuinely work right and be futureproofed?


It's called "WebOS" and no one wanted it.
 
2013-07-12 06:26:24 AM  

Bloody Templar: Admittedly, mine was free


It wasn't free.  It cost you your integrity.
 
2013-07-12 06:29:14 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: It's called "WebOS" and no one wanted it.


Sure, but that was because the company was idiots and the OS was bundled with hardware schemes that didn't even make sense in 1999. My idea isn't directed toward making money, it's just a working, polished system that would function fine with a $10 Goodwill monitor.
 
2013-07-12 06:36:12 AM  
Over saturated market for gimmicky toy with stupids apps.
 
2013-07-12 06:46:00 AM  

MrSteve007: Or they're looking to unload stock before updating both the RT and Pro with the latest processors in the next month or two . . . as the last paragraph suggests.


You are correct.  It does suggest that.  Except that it doesn't.

"In the works" equals "next month or two" in your world?
 
2013-07-12 06:57:35 AM  
I have a tablet. I never use it. It's an interesting toy and has a very sexy touchscreen, but it's basically useless for much more than email and calling people on the bullshiat statements they make in meetings.
 
2013-07-12 07:02:46 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Despite this link being from something called Mac Rumors, I'm actually willing to take it at face value.


It might be second hand news or made up dreams, but don't stop hoping for Surface to succeed. I'm never going back again to my old laptop, but feel free to go your own way and stick with the iPad. Those things are so expensive, you'd think they were filled with gold dust, woman! If there is anything better than the Surface, I don't wanna know about it. I sometimes go to sleep with my Surface, and I say to it, "You make loving fun". But enough about that - a little songbird told me that this will be the device that breaks the chain that Apple has on the electronics market. Oh daddy, I can't wait for the Surface to outsell the iPad!
 
2013-07-12 07:44:58 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: AverageAmericanGuy: For those who, like me, are too lazy to read the article, I've bitten the bullet and clicked the link.

Here's the new pricing with discounts:
- Surface RT 32GB: $349.99
- Surface RT 64GB: $449.99
- Surface RT 32GB with Touch Cover: $449.99
- Surface RT 64GB with Touch Cover: $549.99

I don't see how they are still charging $100 for a farking keyboard/cover


Because f**k you, that's why.
This is, after all, Microsoft we're talking about here.
Sweaty armpits and all.
 
2013-07-12 07:47:41 AM  

SwingDancer: Surface pro rocks. I use it for everything but gaming, where I use my laptop. I know two other people who do exactly the same thing. Rt on the other hand was a terrible mistake.


Lol gaming laptop.
 
2013-07-12 08:07:16 AM  

LeoffDaGrate: MrSteve007: Or they're looking to unload stock before updating both the RT and Pro with the latest processors in the next month or two . . . as the last paragraph suggests.

You are correct.  It does suggest that.  Except that it doesn't.

"In the works" equals "next month or two" in your world?


"Stock" is what you have when production exceeds demand, right?  I know, I should have taken a business class.
 
2013-07-12 08:27:31 AM  
While I like the Pro version (friend has one), it is a bit too heavy for my liking, and not comfortable to hold if you're lying in bed or on the couch. I'd rather pick my Asus Transformer with the detachable keyboard/mouse, since at least that also adds an additional 10 hours of life to the tablet due to the thing essentially being a battery pack, and adds USB ports and a full size SD card reader.
 
2013-07-12 08:28:05 AM  
Could this tablet run Civ V or the like?
 
2013-07-12 08:34:09 AM  
Throw a Haswell in the Pro, and you have me. I just don't have a use for an RT tablet, even though the prices are certainly appealing.
 
2013-07-12 08:38:14 AM  
Cut the price by another $150 and I might be interested.  My netbook is slowly dying.

All I basically need it for is to surf the web and be able to vpn into the office and remote desktop into servers.
 
2013-07-12 08:42:37 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Could this tablet run Civ V or the like?


Yes, it can. At least the Pro version can.... the RT can't.
 
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