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(BBC-US)   Gen Xers ... the forgotten generation at work   (bbc.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Gen Xers, Generation X, Pew Charitable Trusts, University of Guelph, middle management, acquiescence, latchkey kid, disaffection  
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18008 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jul 2013 at 5:08 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



286 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-12 12:20:14 AM  
These threads are almost as predictable as bicycle threads.

Boomer: Those gen X whiners just need to work harder.
Gen Xer: Whatever, gramps. How 'bout you retire?
Millennial: We can't even GET jobs!
Boomer: Check back with me when you work as hard as WE did.
Everyone: Whatever, Gramps.

Someone posts a picture of the "Worked a summer job/bought a new car" "Quit a job/got a new one" shoops.

Yay.
 
2013-07-12 12:29:07 AM  

unlikely: Gen Xer: Whatever, gramps. How 'bout you retire

die?


Bring on the death panels!

/kidding
//sorta
 
2013-07-12 12:49:59 AM  
loveisover.me
 
2013-07-12 12:58:24 AM  

penthesilea: unlikely: Gen Xer: Whatever, gramps. How 'bout you retire die?


Bring on the death panels!

/kidding
//sorta


Yeah I forgot the "escalation" phase of the thread.
 
2013-07-12 01:54:40 AM  
I have a decent job with the government. In fact, within my specialty (which, sadly, is not described as "drinking whiskey", in which case I'd be a millionaire at least) I'm one of the top people at my high-profile federal agency. You probably see the name of my agency in the news at least several times a year if you live in the US. But the jobs are vanishing, quickly. We have few if any Gen-Xers in our group. It's all people under 33 or so (I'm 29 myself) and people over 50. Huge gap in the middle. The old people aren't retiring, and with all the sequestration, even when they do, good luck seeing those jobs re-posted.

And people complain they can't get competent government employees, while also typically having terrible misconceptions of the benefits of being a federal employee. Example: to get the nice cushy federal pension everyone thinks we get, you would have had to have been hired around 1984. It's different now, and mostly depends on a 401k. F*ck that. I have my own Roth IRA I max every year.
 
2013-07-12 01:56:15 AM  

unlikely: These threads are almost as predictable as bicycle threads.

Boomer: Those gen X whiners just need to work harder. Whine!
Gen Xer: Whatever, gramps. How 'bout you retire? Counter-whine!
Millennial: We can't even GET jobs! Weak bleet!
Boomer: Check back with me when you work as hard as WE did. Smuggery!
Everyone: Whatever, Gramps. Studied indifference...


Yay.


Yep way predictable.
 
2013-07-12 02:39:36 AM  
In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.
 
2013-07-12 02:42:45 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.


Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.
 
2013-07-12 03:39:27 AM  

TommyymmoT: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.


F*ck em. I'm starting my own company.
 
2013-07-12 05:11:31 AM  
Gen Xers are the backbone of today's workforce. We don't complain, we just do our farking jobs and we do it well.

Our age makes us the primary group making up management, and our experience makes us valuable employees.

Other age groups have their pros and cons, but right now Gen Xers are the most important group in the workforce.
 
2013-07-12 05:16:13 AM  
Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.
 
2013-07-12 05:18:08 AM  

CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.


Yeah, that was pretty heavy. A true legend.
 
2013-07-12 05:23:24 AM  
13th Gen ISBN-13: 978-0679743651

A bit outdated now, but was a decent read that put things into perspective.

No Boomers at my workplace, they can't hang.

/<3 My job
 
2013-07-12 05:25:48 AM  

TommyymmoT: Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,


AverageAmericanGuy: Gen Xers are the backbone of today's workforce. We don't complain, we just do our farking jobs and we do it well.

Our age makes us the primary group making up management, and our experience makes us valuable employees.

Other age groups have their pros and cons, but right now Gen Xers are the most important group in the workforce.


These.
 
2013-07-12 05:25:51 AM  
If you're expecting anything other than a paycheck in today's world, you're going to be very disappointed. 

...that is all...
 
2013-07-12 05:27:53 AM  
Suddenly, Anus Bees

i25.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-12 05:36:48 AM  

i.imgur.com



/Any day now
 
2013-07-12 05:36:53 AM  
I like reading articles about sociology, demographics and the "generations", and most of them almost always get a whole bunch of things wrong.

But this article was surprisingly accurate and on the mark with regards to how the Boomers, Xers and Millenials see themselves and each other.
 
2013-07-12 05:44:31 AM  
The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.
 
2013-07-12 05:45:51 AM  
As the only GenXer at my last job, I agree with the article. I came to work, shut up and did my job. Management was in their 50's and 60's and the 25 year olds I worked with got all the credit. I miss the paycheck but I don't miss the job.
 
2013-07-12 05:47:26 AM  
I work at a factory and the problem isn't boomers, lots of them are great workers, the problem is the ones who could retire but can't because they buried themselves in debt. As a result they stay into their 70s but no longer give two shiats about their jobs. Nothing is more annoying than fixing mistakes for someone who makes more than you and who confuses seniority with superiority.
 
2013-07-12 05:51:54 AM  
I can see how the generation thing has screwed with my generation (X).
Most of the people who were my bosses when I started working had been promoted to management in their mid 30s. By the time I got there they were in their late 40s. And they are still there now, in their 60s, with no real desire to retire. Hell some of them are living off their superannuation already, salary sacrificing 100% of their wage to avoid tax and laughing as they screw the economy even more.
I have been lucky enough (and 'agile' enough - yay buzzwords) to get up alongside them on the ol' corporate ladder. But plenty of the gen X folk I see, seem stuck below the boomer logjam, not through lack of skill, ambition, education, ability or knowledge but just because there are only so many people you can promote to middle management and you can't make upper management without working your way up (or having daddy own the company).
 
2013-07-12 05:52:19 AM  

CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.


It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.
 
2013-07-12 05:54:59 AM  
every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook
 
2013-07-12 05:58:43 AM  

Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook


This.
 
2013-07-12 06:04:55 AM  
I forgot, who are we talking about again?
 
2013-07-12 06:06:24 AM  
Article is spot on. First job I had was as a scentless apprentice for Floyd the barber. Place reeked of bleach, and I got a sliver and I thought to myself, "Jesus doesn't want me for a sunbeam", and "I hate myself and want to die", so I quit. It's been 20 something years now, and I was thinking of starting a band, and just kind of living off my girlfriends salary. Daddy's little girl ain't a girl no more.
 
2013-07-12 06:26:27 AM  
They always told us growing up, that watching TV would turn our brains to mush.  Gen-Xers are the proof.  Those brain-washed, cable news watching idiots have farked up this country to the point where I'm not sure it can ever recover.  No, scratch that. I sure it won't ever recover.
 
2013-07-12 06:29:35 AM  

The Southern Dandy: They always told us growing up, that watching TV would turn our brains to mush.  Gen-Xers are the proof.  Those brain-washed, cable news watching idiots have farked up this country to the point where I'm not sure it can ever recover.  No, scratch that. I sure it won't ever recover.


Baby boomers. You meant them, right?
 
2013-07-12 06:32:38 AM  
I don't know....I managed to do fairly well, but doing so meant:

1.) Busting my ass non stop.  (hint: if you've never worked 60-80 hour weeks for a couple years straight you haven't busted ass yet)
2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.
4.) Proving my worth again and again, but also always demanding compensation that is in line with my contributions.  I walked out of a job once because management lied about potential future stock options that never had any chance of happening.

/ in the end, they brought me back in with an agreement to pay me commissions on products sold, which was a very nice deal
// I quit 6 months later to go to a new startup, which in the end was a much better deal
 
2013-07-12 06:39:08 AM  
Hahaha, middle management problems.  If you aren't paid more then your manager you have room to grow or a job to quit and find one that realizes people who sign your vacation requests and run interference so you can get your work done are not always automatically worth more then the employees.
 
2013-07-12 06:40:57 AM  
where Mrs works is a glut of employees of all ages who have no need to work but do so anyway. widow lady, house paid for, insurance money out the wazoo, lives right down the road, nothing better to do. several co-workers married to spouses who have very successful businesses, they have no need for the extra income. trust fund babies, son of a major lottery winner, married to wealthy doctor, married to wealthy lawyer blah blah blah. go across the country and fire all these people who are taking away jobs from those who truly need the income, you'd have a lot more employees who appreciate their new jobs. you'd have a lot less people that live to chit chat around the water cooler too.
 
2013-07-12 06:41:54 AM  
I think the article was pretty accurate, especially in the portrayal of Gen X'ers.  At my last job, I was always caught between my two bosses (who were both Boomers, but on the young side of Boomers).  One boss, was convinced that I did nothing whereas the other boss fought him tooth and nail to keep me through all the rounds of layoffs as the economy bombed.  Even though I had designed every spreadsheet, form, data table, built an accredited lab, wrote the lab technician training manual, was the de facto IT person and scheduled all the technicians for field work it never felt like what I did was adequate or enough for the one boss.  I eventually just gave up trying to please him and did my job to the best of my ability.

Something I think that perplexes the Boomers about Gen X'ers is our refusal to put work over our families.  I think this stems from the fact that many of us grew up either in houses where the parents were not there (latchkey) or were divorced.  There's a reason divorce is at a 40 year low and it's Gen X http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303544604576430341393583 056.html.  We've placed our families above everything.  I would rather make less money and be able to attend my kid's games and coach they're teams then work OT every day so I can afford a mid-life crisis.  The one thing I decided when I got married is that my kids would never go through what I went through and they haven't to this point and hopefully they never will.
 
2013-07-12 06:42:13 AM  
There are so many gross over-generalizations in that article, I think a Texas-sized brush just painted over my house.

/1972 baby... off the lawn
 
2013-07-12 06:44:23 AM  

The Southern Dandy: They always told us growing up, that watching TV would turn our brains to mush.  Gen-Xers are the proof.  Those brain-washed, cable news watching idiots have farked up this country to the point where I'm not sure it can ever recover.  No, scratch that. I sure it won't ever recover.


Actually most X'ers I know hardly watch TV at all.
 
2013-07-12 06:46:41 AM  

Farkbert: 2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.


Uhm... Where I live you wouldn't be offered a job because obviously you are not reliable and would leave in a few months anyway.
There is a double standard where as an employee you are expected to be loyal to your company even though the company doesn't give a shiat about you, but to be honest I wouldn't hire you either.
 
2013-07-12 06:47:15 AM  

largedon: The Southern Dandy: They always told us growing up, that watching TV would turn our brains to mush.  Gen-Xers are the proof.  Those brain-washed, cable news watching idiots have farked up this country to the point where I'm not sure it can ever recover.  No, scratch that. I sure it won't ever recover.

Actually most X'ers I know hardly watch TV at all.


I think he's either being facetious or projecting all over himself
 
2013-07-12 06:47:23 AM  

Ooba Tooba: Article is spot on. First job I had was as a scentless apprentice for Floyd the barber. Place reeked of bleach, and I got a sliver and I thought to myself, "Jesus doesn't want me for a sunbeam", and "I hate myself and want to die", so I quit. It's been 20 something years now, and I was thinking of starting a band, and just kind of living off my girlfriends salary. Daddy's little girl ain't a girl no more.


*golfclap*
 
2013-07-12 06:49:21 AM  
Just retired boomer here, so I am getting a kick out of ....
I didn't have debt, have a freaky combo of two defined benefit retirement plans (what is left of social security and one other). Whoot. Freaky lucky skill set too, got recruiters calling me all the time to do some work, "aren't you getting bored?" "Don't you miss _____" Nah, I don't miss anything.. taking the grandkids to see One Direction next week, road trip :) I figure I better get what I put into social security back out before whatever happens to that happens, then if I need to I will work again.
 
2013-07-12 06:51:31 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

Yeah, that was pretty heavy. A true legend.


Courtney did it, and she didn't get prosecuted because the police fear her power.
 
2013-07-12 06:52:12 AM  

steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.



I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....
 
2013-07-12 06:53:26 AM  

markfara: AverageAmericanGuy: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

Yeah, that was pretty heavy. A true legend.

Courtney did it, and she didn't get prosecuted because the police fear her power.


This.
 
2013-07-12 07:00:07 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.


well put. and so true...die old farkers
 
2013-07-12 07:00:39 AM  
These "generation" distinctions are a little artificial.

I was born in 1978.  A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X.  The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

The thing is, I have little in common with Gen X.  I never knew who Kurt Cobain was at the time, and for quite a while when other kids were talking about Nirvana in school I thought Buddhism was a fad.  I never listened to grunge music, and I was sheltered enough from a lot of pop culture as a kid I didn't have many of the same cultural touchstones of Gen X (aside from watching the fall of communism, the destruction of Challenger, the Gulf War, ect).

On the other hand, whenever I read about Millennials, I read it and think "that's me".  Grew up around the rise of the PC and the internet, had a devil of a time even finding a job when I went into the workforce, part of a generation which was told from childhood that a college education is self-justifying and to just go and you'll be able to pay for those student loans later. . .

. . .but authors and demographers and such keep wanting to call me a Generation X'er because I was born in '78,
 
2013-07-12 07:00:46 AM  

bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.


I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....


Don't worry, dear. Lindsay Lohan may pop her clogs any moment and then you too can feel as misunderstood as the rest of us.
 
2013-07-12 07:01:48 AM  
I'm confused.

I was born in 1981 and am currently 32.

Sometimes I see people my age described as Gen X and sometimes as Millennials.  I know that these things don't have hard-and-fast boundaries, but I never know which generation I supposedly belong to.
 
2013-07-12 07:03:13 AM  

Doc Daneeka: I'm confused.

I was born in 1981 and am currently 32.

Sometimes I see people my age described as Gen X and sometimes as Millennials.  I know that these things don't have hard-and-fast boundaries, but I never know which generation I supposedly belong to.


Are you hardworking and industrious or are you whiny and lazy?
 
2013-07-12 07:03:32 AM  

largedon: Actually most X'ers I know hardly watch TV at all.


Television is a quintessential Boomer thing. They grew up with television, they evolved with it, they watched it advance and grow from the first grainy black & white shows in the 40s on three channels to today's HD broadcasts on several hundred. Boomers are inextricably linked with the social dominance of television -- they are the first generation to literally watch the whole world pass them by, from the Kennedy assassination to the moonlanding, Watergate, the Berlin Wall, the Gulf War and 9/11. They also remember with equal amounts of fondness Ricky Ricardo, Ginger vs Mary Ann, Kirk & Spock, Carol Burnett's tarzan yell, the last episode of MASH and who shot JR. Their parents had radio and their children have the internet, but television is theirs. They were born in the age of television and they will die in front of the television, slumped in their sofas, their remotes still in their hands.

/for Xers, it is video games.
 
2013-07-12 07:05:15 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Doc Daneeka: I'm confused.

I was born in 1981 and am currently 32.

Sometimes I see people my age described as Gen X and sometimes as Millennials.  I know that these things don't have hard-and-fast boundaries, but I never know which generation I supposedly belong to.

Are you hardworking and industrious or are you whiny and lazy?


Varies from day to day.
 
2013-07-12 07:05:30 AM  

Farkbert: I don't know....I managed to do fairly well, but doing so meant:

1.) Busting my ass non stop.  (hint: if you've never worked 60-80 hour weeks for a couple years straight you haven't busted ass yet)


Most of us have done this.  Doesn't help, just makes us sicker and tired and generall depressed as our personal lives/relationships wither and die.

2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.

Ain't no jobs, "whar jobs Obama, whar?"

3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.

Got me there, I've only changed industries 3 times, (no that wasn't sarcasm).  And in both 2 and 3 I haven't just picked up stakes and moved across the country repeatedly.  In my defense though?  Moving is expensive and several of my jobs involved mooching living space off of friends/family

4.) Proving my worth again and again, but also always demanding compensation that is in line with my contributions.  I walked out of a job once because management lied about potential future stock options that never had any chance of happening.

THERE we go.  I was raised with the good old protestant indoctrination of humility and honesty, which to any employer is a big neon sign saying, "please abuse the fark out of me."  We just recently had a fellow pass through our company who was living the proof of that particular reality.  He was a sleaze, more than that he had screwed the very company that was hiring him, twice, but was somehow re-hired.  He was making far more than most despite needing extensive orientation and he was generally lazy when not being observed.  He did all this by being able to lie well, and lie about himself.  He was a salesman, and specialized in selling himself.

The real problem is "we the people" are beaten.  My ENTIRE FARKING LIFE I have been told, "well in THIS economy, you're lucky to be paid whatever your getting" from more than just the employers.   I am told, "It's against the law to discuss your pay with other employees," and I have enough co-workers who think it's farking TRUE.  How am I supposed to find out, with my current position, what the industry standard is and whether I'm getting fair-market value or getting screwed?  The answer, of course, is to start taking more risks, telling more lies (sadly I'm a bad liar) and cutting enough ties that I can afford the blowback.  I've got responsibilities to kith and kin that I probably could have wriggled out of, if I had the personal dishonor to abandon them I'd have more savings, I could risk applying for a high-paying job in Alaska and either get more pay locally or just farking move to Alaska for 6-18 months.

But at the core, I'd need to be better at self-promotion and lying.  (well, "positive spinning" if you prefer)
 
2013-07-12 07:06:26 AM  
It's really the people with business degrees (the shop class of college) who end up getting into positions of power, never leave, and demand all people for every job, have a minimum of ten years experience (five for masters) for entry level positions that pay nine dollars an hour.
 
2013-07-12 07:07:07 AM  

OldTXwmn: Just retired boomer here, so I am getting a kick out of ....
I didn't have debt, have a freaky combo of two defined benefit retirement plans (what is left of social security and one other). Whoot. Freaky lucky skill set too, got recruiters calling me all the time to do some work, "aren't you getting bored?" "Don't you miss _____" Nah, I don't miss anything.. taking the grandkids to see One Direction next week, road trip :) I figure I better get what I put into social security back out before whatever happens to that happens, then if I need to I will work again.


lick my crack, asshole
 
2013-07-12 07:07:14 AM  

Doc Daneeka: AverageAmericanGuy: Doc Daneeka: I'm confused.

I was born in 1981 and am currently 32.

Sometimes I see people my age described as Gen X and sometimes as Millennials.  I know that these things don't have hard-and-fast boundaries, but I never know which generation I supposedly belong to.

Are you hardworking and industrious or are you whiny and lazy?

Varies from day to day.


Definitely a Millennial. Gen Xers are hardworking and industrious all the time.
 
2013-07-12 07:07:51 AM  
Generational groupings are the stupidest possible way to categorize people. I was born in '62; what do I have in common with someone born in '45 (other than remembering cars without seatbelts)? Gen X is supposedly '65 to '79? So if you were 21 in 2000, you were a peer of someone who was 35? No.
 
2013-07-12 07:09:03 AM  

Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.


Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.

Xers, for what it's worth, tend to be the runts of the family.
 
2013-07-12 07:10:18 AM  
Yeah!
A high powered career as a big froggie in a small pond: It's just how they roll.
Everybody wants the power, don't they?
 
2013-07-12 07:11:36 AM  

Sid_6.7: It's different now, and mostly depends on a 401k. F*ck that. I have my own Roth IRA I max every year.


You funny.
 
2013-07-12 07:11:53 AM  
So maybe I should ditch the flannel, Doc Martens, and stop plastering my cubicle with pictures of Winona Ryder circa 1992?
 
2013-07-12 07:12:26 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So maybe I should ditch the flannel, Doc Martens, and stop plastering my cubicle with pictures of Winona Ryder circa 1992?


Eh. Whatever.
 
2013-07-12 07:13:07 AM  
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim
Because it was grassy and wanted wear,
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Then that road dwindled down to a game path.

Then that game path dwindled down to nothing at all.

That has made all the difference.
 
2013-07-12 07:16:14 AM  

mbillips: Generational groupings are the stupidest possible way to categorize people. I was born in '62; what do I have in common with someone born in '45 (other than remembering cars without seatbelts)? Gen X is supposedly '65 to '79? So if you were 21 in 2000, you were a peer of someone who was 35? No.


It has to do with post-war families. Boomer families had more children for longer, typically between 3-5 boomer kids over a period of 15 years, starting in 1946. Xer families had 1-3 kids, almost all in the 70s, and Millenial families had mostly 1 child in the late 80s. Almost never more than 2. This is due to the fact that child-rearing is becoming prohibitively expensive for modern societies.
 
2013-07-12 07:17:37 AM  

Klopfer: Farkbert: 2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.

Uhm... Where I live you wouldn't be offered a job because obviously you are not reliable and would leave in a few months anyway.
There is a double standard where as an employee you are expected to be loyal to your company even though the company doesn't give a shiat about you, but to be honest I wouldn't hire you either.


I'm over forty years old.  I have changed jobs several times, but I haven't worked anywhere for less than 2 years, and two places have been over 5.  That is not unreliable.
 
2013-07-12 07:18:47 AM  

steerforth: bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.


I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....

Don't worry, dear. Lindsay Lohan may pop her clogs any moment and then you too can feel as misunderstood as the rest of us.


Will Amy Winehouse or Heath Ledger do?
 
2013-07-12 07:19:31 AM  

Ishkur: Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.

Xers, for what it's worth, tend to be the runts of the family.


Woo I was born during the bleakest malaise in the twentieth century! My generation was having so little sex and using so much birth control that I nearly wasn't born, oh yeaaaah!
 
2013-07-12 07:22:42 AM  

unlikely: These threads are almost as predictable as bicycle threads.

Boomer: Those gen X whiners just need to work harder.
Gen Xer: Whatever, gramps. How 'bout you retire?
Millennial: We can't even GET jobs!
Boomer: Check back with me when you work as hard as WE did.
Everyone: Whatever, Gramps.

Someone posts a picture of the "Worked a summer job/bought a new car" "Quit a job/got a new one" shoops.

Yay.


That's a pretty good summation. We're done here
 
2013-07-12 07:24:58 AM  

Ishkur: Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.

Xers, for what it's worth, tend to be the runts of the family.




Definitions of Gen X that I see generally extend it to birth dates in the early 80s. Then again, the Millennial gen is generally defined as starting in the early 80s. As a 1981 baby, this is the source of my confusion.

I'm often considered too young to really be part of Gen X. But I don't identify with the Millennial generation either. I think of Millennials as people either in college now or recent grads. I've been out of college a decade now.
 
2013-07-12 07:25:48 AM  
Born in '71 myself.. careers, promotions, aren't those urban legends?
 
2013-07-12 07:27:30 AM  

Silverstaff: These "generation" distinctions are a little artificial.

I was born in 1978.  A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X.  The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

The thing is, I have little in common with Gen X.  I never knew who Kurt Cobain was at the time, and for quite a while when other kids were talking about Nirvana in school I thought Buddhism was a fad.  I never listened to grunge music, and I was sheltered enough from a lot of pop culture as a kid I didn't have many of the same cultural touchstones of Gen X (aside from watching the fall of communism, the destruction of Challenger, the Gulf War, ect).

On the other hand, whenever I read about Millennials, I read it and think "that's me".  Grew up around the rise of the PC and the internet, had a devil of a time even finding a job when I went into the workforce, part of a generation which was told from childhood that a college education is self-justifying and to just go and you'll be able to pay for those student loans later. . .

. . .but authors and demographers and such keep wanting to call me a Generation X'er because I was born in '78,


I was born in '72 and am a stereotypical Gen Xer. My parents were Boomers, having been born in the actual demographic baby boom in the late '40s. However, my SO was born in 1960 to parents born in the '30s and he has nothing in common with either Xers or Boomers. This dude was punk when punk was farking punk.

The cut-off date for Gen Y/Millennials is usually 1982, meaning the oldest of the generation turned 18 in 2000. I know it's horrible for you to be lumped in with us oldies, but you are Gen X. You should come around and chat to my SO and commiserate together on how no one understands you.
 
2013-07-12 07:29:19 AM  
Generalization X
 
2013-07-12 07:29:54 AM  

Sid_6.7: You probably see the name of my agency in the news at least several times a year if you live in the US. But the jobs are vanishing, quickly. We have few if any Gen-Xers in our group. It's all people under 33 or so (I'm 29 myself) and people over 50. Huge gap in the middle. The old people aren't retiring,


This is why I (genxer) left the employ of the federal government close to 10 years ago. As soon as those 50-year-olds (they were 40-45 then) got all the management positions I knew that those positions wouldn't open up at all for essentially the rest of my career, so there was absolutely no possibility of promotion whatsoever until I hit around age 60.

Which sucked, because I really liked working there.
 
2013-07-12 07:31:53 AM  
Born in '68... consider myself lucky to work at a Fortune 125 company that actually provides a pension. Of course i want to move up, but I'd be crazy to leave this company.
 
2013-07-12 07:32:33 AM  
I was not angry at my place in this until I was compared to Prince Charles.
 
2013-07-12 07:35:01 AM  

bathbubble: steerforth: bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.


I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....

Don't worry, dear. Lindsay Lohan may pop her clogs any moment and then you too can feel as misunderstood as the rest of us.

Will Amy Winehouse or Heath Ledger do?


Oh no, dear. Heath was an Xer and Amy was close enough. I think you're going to have to go down the dead Bieber track to come anywhere near the impact of Dumbledore.
 
2013-07-12 07:39:43 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Definitions of Gen X that I see generally extend it to birth dates in the early 80s. Then again, the Millennial gen is generally defined as starting in the early 80s. As a 1981 baby, this is the source of my confusion.

I'm often considered too young to really be part of Gen X. But I don't identify with the Millennial generation either. I think of Millennials as people either in college now or recent grads. I've been out of college a decade now.



Do you have any siblings? ...how old are they? ....how old were your parents when they had you? Were they Boomers?

One of the more common misconceptions about Xers is that they were the children of the Boomers. This is wrong -- well, some might be children of Boomer teenage pregnancies or early adults, but this wasn't common; the vast majority of Boomers held off having children until their 30s. Some Xers are younger siblings of Boomers, but most are actually late children of "war babies" (people born from 1939-1945).

Xers were not as large or as numerous as the Boomers so they could not affect society with their social inertia like the Boomers could. They could never lead trends, they could only follow them. They were often forgotten and left out in the cold, too small to be attractive to market forces or amass great social change. They were the first generation of the dual income family ethic. They were the latchkey kids forced to raise themselves because both parents always worked. Factor these altogether: Forgotten by the world because they don't matter, forgotten by the industry of society because they're a market minority, forgotten at home because no one's ever around..... and you have the surly, brooding angst canonized in grunge music, John Hughes movies and mcjobs. This crippling worldview germinates apathy and disillusionment. No identity, no purpose, no future, no label. They are X.

The Millenials are generally considered to be born between 82-99 with a peak year of 1990. They are the TRUE children of the Boomers. They are a much larger, much fatter demographic than the Xers, so their affect on social change is a lot more evocative. But they are not as large or as numerous as the Boomers. The problem with large population groups is they tend to be more full of themselves (because they have a ready supply of unconditional peer-affirmation)
 
2013-07-12 07:42:53 AM  

Tax Boy: Sid_6.7: You probably see the name of my agency in the news at least several times a year if you live in the US. But the jobs are vanishing, quickly. We have few if any Gen-Xers in our group. It's all people under 33 or so (I'm 29 myself) and people over 50. Huge gap in the middle. The old people aren't retiring,

This is why I (genxer) left the employ of the federal government close to 10 years ago. As soon as those 50-year-olds (they were 40-45 then) got all the management positions I knew that those positions wouldn't open up at all for essentially the rest of my career, so there was absolutely no possibility of promotion whatsoever until I hit around age 60.

Which sucked, because I really liked working there.


And when those people retire, the job vanishes due to budget cuts. My friend works for the SSA, and they've had three people retire through out the year with zero promotions or hires.
 
2013-07-12 07:44:33 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: TommyymmoT: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.

F*ck em. I'm starting my own company.


You want me to come run it for you? I'm a very competent Boomer. I won't up and retire on you in a few years. I plan on working as long as I am healthy. I like working.
 
2013-07-12 07:47:31 AM  
You don't see us in the work place because we all decided to be brooding tortured artists like Ethan Hawke, rather than selling our souls to corporations and "Da Man" like Ben Stiller.    If you need to find us, you can find us in the convenient store at 2 a.m. stoned and sardonically snarking that Evian is naive spelled backwards.
 
2013-07-12 07:47:35 AM  
I'm from the tail end of the Boomers, and work with a woman who just turned 70.  She is drawing SS, has an inheritance she just came into, and draws 2 salaries here (1 parttime,1 fulltime).  She is always talking about retiring and her debt load at the same time.  She gets all uppity when any of the rest of us actually stick to our work schedule, because she is available at any moment to run by the office.  Make my position full time, pay me enough to have dependable utilities and food, and then maybe I won't be watching the clock.  Because if I miss that 2:57 bus, I'm late to my evening job, you old biddy.
 
2013-07-12 07:48:01 AM  

ordinarysteve: I work at a factory and the problem isn't boomers, lots of them are great workers, the problem is the ones who could retire but can't because they buried themselves in debt. As a result they stay into their 70s but no longer give two shiats about their jobs. Nothing is more annoying than fixing mistakes for someone who makes more than you and who confuses seniority with superiority.


do you work in a union shop?  i work in a factory too, and they fire people like that.  although nobody over the age of 60 should be working there anyway because its too physically demanding.  almost nobody in the whole shop is older than 45 or so, and second shift is composed almost entirely of 20-somethings.  good place to work though, i like my job.
 
2013-07-12 07:52:37 AM  

Ishkur: Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.


Yeah, my parents were both born in the early '50's, and are quintessential boomers.  Right down to my grandfather being a WWII veteran who came home from the war to start a family and my father having this bizarre kismet of getting a high five-figure job despite having no college education, and my mother sincerely telling me when I went off to college in '96 that right after graduation I could get an "office job" by just having "any college degree" and walking into the office of "any firm downtown" and telling me student loan debt didn't matter because I would be able to pay it all off in just a few years after graduation because I'll be a college graduate.

Then again, my mother was HEAVILY pressuring me to go to law school, she believed that having a J.D. and passing the bar basically instantly meant you were going to be wealthy and affluent since lawyers make so much money.  I almost went down that road until some lawyers my family knew warned me that it is NOT like that anymore, and while I had the potential to be a pretty good attorney, the career field for them was positively swamped.

When for years the only work I could find was retail, warehouse and call center work, she'd just assume I was being lazy since I wasn't making $50k/year by my mid 20's like my father was at my age, and I have a degree and he didn't.  My mother assumed I was wanting to fail, since I didn't go to law school like she'd been telling me I would since grade school.

Seriously, my mother was a prototype helicopter parent.  Ever since I was in grade school, my mother was telling me how my life would go: I would be a Congressional Page in high school, go to an Ivy League college, I would go to law school, I would be a JAG Officer in the military (Reserve or Guard only), I would marry into a major political family (she was a huge fan of the Kennedys, her biggest dream was for me to somehow marry into that family, but she'd "settle" for any political family she'd ever heard of), and I'd run for Congress around the time I was 30.  I had that future-biography recited to me from almost the time I entered school.  *sigh*
 
2013-07-12 07:53:11 AM  

Jensaarai: [i.imgur.com image 225x338]

/Any day now



*checks Amazon*

The cover copy for book X Saves the World by Jeff Gordinier says this: "In this simultaneously hilarious and incisive manifesto for a generation that's never had much use for manifestos, ..."

Hey, wait, I'm a Gen-Xer, and I love a good manifesto!
 
2013-07-12 07:53:14 AM  
Oh boy!
 This is the thread where every Gen Xer who dares to complain about getting handed a ration of shiat will be upbraided one one side as not bootstrappy enough by the FYIGM boomers still fellating Reagan's corpse, while hearing the dulcet cries of I EXPECT RESPECT!!! from the millennials on the others.
Fun times, fun times!
 
2013-07-12 07:55:11 AM  

bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.


I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....


That the music SUCKS.
 
2013-07-12 07:57:50 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So maybe I should ditch the flannel, Doc Martens, and stop plastering my cubicle with pictures of Winona Ryder circa 1992?


I'm literally warring doc martins and flannel right now. Hate is dripping onto my desk.
 
2013-07-12 07:58:32 AM  

ordinarysteve: I work at a factory and the problem isn't boomers, lots of them are great workers, the problem is the ones who could retire but can't because they buried themselves in debt. As a result they stay into their 70s but no longer give two shiats about their jobs. Nothing is more annoying than fixing mistakes for someone who makes more than you and who confuses seniority with superiority.


That's why I just laugh when the unemployment numbers come out every month and handwringing goes on about "OMGZ, millions of people are leaving the workforce and have given up!!"   Good.   Most of them are Boomers who should be retiring anyway to clear out room the top for the next generation.    Most of them     keep working only because they've got to pay for an unsustainable level of consumption (and boy, Babyboomers love them some consumption.   The generation that brought us  an obesity epidemic, McMansion Housing Developments and 13 mph SUVs.   The only generation who when faced with an attack on American soil said "Fark it.  Let's cut taxes across the board, head to the malls and buy some shiat.  That's how we deal with crisis.   God Bless America).     In the end the goal in life shouldn't be to work until the day you drop dead, and maybe being forced into retirement will cause you to re-evaluate whether you really need 3 automobiles and a $175 a month cable/satellite bill.
 
2013-07-12 08:01:11 AM  

mbillips: Generational groupings are the stupidest possible way to categorize people. I was born in '62; what do I have in common with someone born in '45 (other than remembering cars without seatbelts)? Gen X is supposedly '65 to '79? So if you were 21 in 2000, you were a peer of someone who was 35? No.


Yes.  I am the youngest in my family.  My sister is the oldest. 8 kids.  Same generation.  When I was 21, she was 38.  Same generation.
 
2013-07-12 08:02:34 AM  

bathbubble: steerforth: bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.


I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....

Don't worry, dear. Lindsay Lohan may pop her clogs any moment and then you too can feel as misunderstood as the rest of us.

Will Amy Winehouse or Heath Ledger do?


I'd argue the thousands of 9/11 victims for ours.
 
2013-07-12 08:03:12 AM  
As a millennial, I can say that my generation is pretty retarded overall.  But just you wait till the younger generation (whatever they're called) gets into the 'real' world.  They'll out-do us for sure!
 
2013-07-12 08:04:57 AM  

bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

It defined our generation, much like the deaths of John Lennon and Albus Dumbledore have done for those that came before and after.


I feel like it says something about my generation that our "defining death" is that of a fictional character, but I'm not quite sure what that something is....


Perhaps, but I'm 29 (so sort of a millennial?) and I have to say, Albus Dumbledore was a far better role model than most celebrities that I see on tv. Harry Potter was/is my escape from some rough times, and I'm not ashamed to say that fictional characters from books helped me far more than falling for a band member or film star. And it is definitely a series that is well-known throughout the world.

Your mileage may vary on that though, as we are all different.
 
2013-07-12 08:05:02 AM  

Silverstaff: Yeah, my parents were both born in the early '50's, and are quintessential boomers. Right down to my grandfather being a WWII veteran who came home from the war to start a family and my father having this bizarre kismet of getting a high five-figure job despite having no college education, and my mother sincerely telling me when I went off to college in '96 that right after graduation I could get an "office job" by just having "any college degree" and walking into the office of "any firm downtown" and telling me student loan debt didn't matter because I would be able to pay it all off in just a few years after graduation because I'll be a college graduate.



I don't mean to laugh, but this made me laugh.

I see your name in lights, kid!  You'll be heading up the department in no time!

Say, you know what I'd do if I were your age?  I want to say one word to you. Just one word.  Are you listening?Plastics.  There's a great future in plastics. Think about it. Will you think about it?
 
2013-07-12 08:05:22 AM  

buckets_of_fun: As a millennial, I can say that my generation is pretty retarded overall.  But just you wait till the younger generation (whatever they're called) gets into the 'real' world.  They'll out-do us for sure!


Strauss & Howe (authors of the book "Generations") have already named Generation Z as the "Homeland Generation".
 
2013-07-12 08:05:42 AM  

Ishkur: largedon: Actually most X'ers I know hardly watch TV at all.

Television is a quintessential Boomer thing. They grew up with television, they evolved with it, they watched it advance and grow from the first grainy black & white shows in the 40s on three channels to today's HD broadcasts on several hundred. Boomers are inextricably linked with the social dominance of television -- they are the first generation to literally watch the whole world pass them by, from the Kennedy assassination to the moonlanding, Watergate, the Berlin Wall, the Gulf War and 9/11. They also remember with equal amounts of fondness Ricky Ricardo, Ginger vs Mary Ann, Kirk & Spock, Carol Burnett's tarzan yell, the last episode of MASH and who shot JR. Their parents had radio and their children have the internet, but television is theirs. They were born in the age of television and they will die in front of the television, slumped in their sofas, their remotes still in their hands.

/for Xers, it is video games.


In a lot of ways, I completely agree with this...but in others, not so much.

I was born 1967...so I'm pretty close to borderline boomer/GenX. I fully think that the whole television thing is true about Boomers. Television really defined what you did as a family at night as a kid, along with all of the next day's "water cooler" talk.

Now, as a male, I could agree about video game being a GenX defining thing. Ecept that you are ignoring half the population that are women.

Throughout much of the early video era (late 70's - all of the 80's), video games were an almost exclusive boys club, and a somewhat derogatory club at that. Being labelled a "video game geek" was NOT cool. And this doesn't take into account that video games were pretty much ignored by females or frowned upon by girls/women until fairly recently.

Heck, even in today's state, video games are still considered a boy's thing, and the games that females play are often considered as "games that don't really count".

Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.
 
2013-07-12 08:06:13 AM  
Speaking of generational conflict. . .

Boomers, in the 60's they were saying to never trust anybody over 30, who went to Woodstock, who got high as a kite on MJ, who were the hippies and flower children who weren't trusted by the "Greatest Generation" who thought that everything was falling apart because the kids these days didn't want to work and just wanted to listen to Rock & Roll music and party and avoid responsibility. . .are now acting just like their parents did way-back-when and acting like they were always super-hard working industrious people who never took the time to enjoy their youth and see the young of today as shiftless and lazy.
 
2013-07-12 08:06:32 AM  

cherryl taggart: I'm from the tail end of the Boomers, and work with a woman who just turned 70.  She is drawing SS, has an inheritance she just came into, and draws 2 salaries here (1 parttime,1 fulltime).  She is always talking about retiring and her debt load at the same time.  She gets all uppity when any of the rest of us actually stick to our work schedule, because she is available at any moment to run by the office.  Make my position full time, pay me enough to have dependable utilities and food, and then maybe I won't be watching the clock.  Because if I miss that 2:57 bus, I'm late to my evening job, you old biddy.


I call bullshiat.  Or she's guilty of fraud.
 
2013-07-12 08:07:42 AM  

Silverstaff: Ishkur: Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.

Yeah, my parents were both born in the early '50's, and are quintessential boomers.  Right down to my grandfather being a WWII veteran who came home from the war to start a family and my father having this bizarre kismet of getting a high five-figure job despite having no college education, and my mother sincerely telling me when I went off to college in '96 that right after graduation I could get an "office job" by just having "any college degree" and walking into the office of "any firm downtown" and telling me student loan debt didn't matter because I would be able to pay it all off in just a few years after graduation because I'll be a college graduate.

Then again, my mother was HEAVILY pressuring me to go to law school, she believed that having a J.D. and passing the bar basically instantly meant you were going to be wealthy and affluent since lawyers make so much money.  I almost went down ...


I've seen this movie. Your Father was aloof and your Mother pushy because you are really a bastard child and she needs you to be upwardly mobile to atone for her sins. Does she have more pills and alcohol than the corner CVS?
 
2013-07-12 08:07:57 AM  

mike_d85: I'm literally warring doc martins and flannel right now. Hate is dripping onto my desk.


wait... you're a lumberjack?

/because nobody else wears flannel
 
2013-07-12 08:09:09 AM  

enderthexenocide: ordinarysteve: I work at a factory and the problem isn't boomers, lots of them are great workers, the problem is the ones who could retire but can't because they buried themselves in debt. As a result they stay into their 70s but no longer give two shiats about their jobs. Nothing is more annoying than fixing mistakes for someone who makes more than you and who confuses seniority with superiority.

do you work in a union shop?  i work in a factory too, and they fire people like that.  although nobody over the age of 60 should be working there anyway because its too physically demanding.  almost nobody in the whole shop is older than 45 or so, and second shift is composed almost entirely of 20-somethings.  good place to work though, i like my job.


Nope, not union but there is the ever-looming prospect of unionization (several close votes in the past 30 years) so the end-result is all the negatives of unions like seniority and hesitation to fire lazy people, to help remove incentive to unionize, with none of the benefits such collective bargaining. They usually just shift the older employees to less rigorous jobs that amount to "make-work" positions. They also have made it clear in the last few years that they will just move to a developing country if we do unionize so it probably won't ever happen. This goes very well with constant cuts to wages and benefits, especially since '08. Multi-national corporations are so great.
 
2013-07-12 08:09:20 AM  
When career boosts are simply handed out, then seniority/familiarity/loyalty is often rewarded.  If you want to move up without those, then you may want to make the opportunity yourself.  It's not easy, but it can be done if you present a formidable business case and spearhead the efforts required.  If you reach out to them with a great investment opportunity, likely within their own company, and can prove your case is solid, then you've unlocked the door to your own success.  No one will have to look carefully to find worth in you.
 
2013-07-12 08:10:50 AM  

Silverstaff: Seriously, my mother was a prototype helicopter parent.


Boomers have a tendency to "overparent". A lot of it comes from their own experiences growing up. Boomers, across the board, universally reviled their parents (and violently fought against their parents generation as soon as they were old enough to). They were raised by the war generation; indeed, some households mimic'd the military barracks their fathers had become accustomed, with utmost discipline and loyalty demanded at all times. Boomers did not have unhappy childhoods, but they grew to resent the stark discipline, rigid morality, and harsh hierarchical structure that their war vet fathers enforced.

So when the Boomers had children of their own, they vowed to not raise them the way they were raised. So instead of being a taskmaster, they sought to be their child's best friend, and involve themselves in every aspect of their child's lives, and give them unconditional affirmation and confidence. And now we're seeing the result of that: A generation that has never been told no, that is conditioned to receive praise and acceptance for everything they do, and expect to be rewarded not for succeeding, but just for the attempt.

The solution, of course, is somewhere in the middle. What children really need from their parents is not a drill sergeant and definitely not a best buddy -- what they need is an actual farking parent.
 
2013-07-12 08:12:22 AM  
Generation X:

Was a punk band with some guy named Billy Idol as the singer, from 1977 to 1982. Idol then had the idea he'd do better going solo.

Was a whiny novel about pop culture, by Douglas Coupland, Canadian. Canadians whine about American pop culture a BUNCH. Particularly American. It's their number 2 spectator sport, after hockey.

Is now: Clickbait term used by big media sites and their redirectors because someone realized we all are turning 50, and thus need to be pandered to. It'll stop in another year or so, as more Millenials can't find work, or more of their parents hit retirement / tea bag / die.
 
2013-07-12 08:12:29 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.


Whatever you have to tell yourself to avoid facing the truth about your performance.

Funny how many of us Gen Xers are doing fine, but YOUR failures are due to a mass conspiracy by "the man" that keeps you down.
 
2013-07-12 08:15:44 AM  

mike_d85: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So maybe I should ditch the flannel, Doc Martens, and stop plastering my cubicle with pictures of Winona Ryder circa 1992?

I'm literally warring doc martins and flannel right now. Hate is dripping onto my desk.


I would high-five you but I'm from the lost in-between generation, so I'm invisible in both the workplace and to sociologists.
 
2013-07-12 08:15:51 AM  

snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.


Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.
 
2013-07-12 08:16:33 AM  

snowshovel: Throughout much of the early video era (late 70's - all of the 80's), video games were an almost exclusive boys club, and a somewhat derogatory club at that. Being labelled a "video game geek" was NOT cool. And this doesn't take into account that video games were pretty much ignored by females or frowned upon by girls/women until fairly recently.


What are you talking about? The video arcade was the coolest place to be in the 80s and lots of girls were there. Moreover, it was something that existed just for Xers because it died out in the 90s when everyone got home consoles. For a brief period, it was THE hangout if you were underage.
 
2013-07-12 08:17:43 AM  
It's kind of crazy how many of my friends have started their own businesses, but it's equally crazy how many of those businesses revolve around  providing services to people who have jobs that take up all their time.
 
2013-07-12 08:19:23 AM  

Silverstaff: Boomers, in the 60's they were saying to never trust anybody over 30, who went to Woodstock, who got high as a kite on MJ, who were the hippies and flower children who weren't trusted by the "Greatest Generation" who thought that everything was falling apart because the kids these days didn't want to work and just wanted to listen to Rock & Roll music and party and avoid responsibility. . .are now acting just like their parents did way-back-when and acting like they were always super-hard working industrious people who never took the time to enjoy their youth and see the young of today as shiftless and lazy.


The dead truth is that every generation is exactly the same, with two principle modifiers:

1) Each generation acts in accordance with its age bracket (with young people seeking freedom and recreation and older people seeking security, family, and political jurisprudence)

2) Each generation acts in accordance with the size of its population. As I said earlier, larger population groups tend to be dumber, greedier, and more full of themselves because they prop themselves up through self-reinforced rhetoric.
 
2013-07-12 08:19:23 AM  
Silverstaff:

The thing is, I have little in common with Gen X.  I never knew who Kurt Cobain was at the time, and for quite a while when other kids were talking about Nirvana in school I thought Buddhism was a fad.  I never listened to grunge music, and I was sheltered enough from a lot of pop culture as a kid I didn't have many of the same cultural touchstones of Gen X (aside from watching the fall of communism, the destruction of Challenger, the Gulf War, ect).

Depending on the definition of X, you are an X'er.  The term was coined originally to cover the last 4 year of the baby boom generation (1960-64) but has now been applied from 60-80 or 65-80.  If you were sheltered though, it is pretty obvious that you wouldn't have much in common with the typical X'er.  More of a millennial thing.
 
2013-07-12 08:20:09 AM  
Bollocks to the BBC and their "this content is not for domestic viewing" crap. Enjoy my license fee payments you assholes.
 
2013-07-12 08:20:19 AM  

Silverstaff: Ishkur: Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.

Yeah, my parents were both born in the early '50's, and are quintessential boomers.  Right down to my grandfather being a WWII veteran who came home from the war to start a family and my father having this bizarre kismet of getting a high five-figure job despite having no college education, and my mother sincerely telling me when I went off to college in '96 that right after graduation I could get an "office job" by just having "any college degree" and walking into the office of "any firm downtown" and telling me student loan debt didn't matter because I would be able to pay it all off in just a few years after graduation because I'll be a college graduate.

Then again, my mother was HEAVILY pressuring me to go to law school, she believed that having a J.D. and passing the bar basically instantly meant you were going to be wealthy and affluent since lawyers make so much money.  I almost went down ...


Your mom needed a job.
 
2013-07-12 08:20:30 AM  
Boomers are why we can't have nice things.

That is all.
 
2013-07-12 08:21:05 AM  

SpectroBoy: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to avoid facing the truth about your performance.

Funny how many of us Gen Xers are doing fine, but YOUR failures are due to a mass conspiracy by "the man" that keeps you down.


Now imagine an entire generation of kids like that. Voila. The Millennials.
 
2013-07-12 08:21:15 AM  
"Virtually every one of my friends is doing something entrepreneurial," either starting a business or going to work for a start-up, she said. "Xers are drawn to flatter, less-hierarchical firms. They want to take their destinies into their own hands."

I usually loathe articles discussing the traits of entire generations and while I wouldn't necessarily call going to work for a start-up as 'entrepreneurial', I used to work for Prudential Insurance until I was about 29 and left to work for a very small company. And while I left Pru because I hated it there, one of the big appeals of the new company was its size. Of course over the years, that company has been acquired twice and I'm back to working for a huge company again, but those 4-5 years when that small company was still independent, my salary level went up faster than I had ever hoped for. I'm no senior VP or anything, but that really jump started my income compared to what was going on at Pru.
 
2013-07-12 08:21:50 AM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: It's kind of crazy how many of my friends have started their own businesses, but it's equally crazy how many of those businesses revolve around  providing services to people who have jobs that take up all their time.


If I make X for one hour of work and someone who does a chore for me charges X/2 for an hour, should I hire them to do it?

If you like doing the chore, do the chore.  If you don't and have a more gainful use for your time, do that instead.  It's not about discipline, it's about a specialization economy.
 
2013-07-12 08:22:03 AM  

Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook


I see the problem.

When I was coming up the way to get ahead was to take on more work and responsibility (particularly for women and minorities).  After you proved that you could do it you might get a raise and/or promotion.  The work place has never been a perfect meritocracy, but if you are not willing to take on more challenges don't expect a promotion.  (I.e. don't expect the promotion first.)
 
2013-07-12 08:24:40 AM  

Graffito: Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook

I see the problem.

When I was coming up the way to get ahead was to take on more work and responsibility (particularly for women and minorities).  After you proved that you could do it you might get a raise and/or promotion.  The work place has never been a perfect meritocracy, but if you are not willing to take on more challenges don't expect a promotion.  (I.e. don't expect the promotion first.)


You valued yourself so little that you were willing to work for free? Hope your glorious bosses never took advantage of that.
 
2013-07-12 08:25:29 AM  

Dracolich: If I make X for one hour of work and someone who does a chore for me charges X/2 for an hour, should I hire them to do it?


Why even bother having a dog or kids or a kitchen, then?
 
2013-07-12 08:27:03 AM  

mbillips: Generational groupings are the stupidest possible way to categorize people. I was born in '62; what do I have in common with someone born in '45 (other than remembering cars without seatbelts)? Gen X is supposedly '65 to '79? So if you were 21 in 2000, you were a peer of someone who was 35? No.


According to a lot of people in this thread their problems won't be solved unless you kill yourself.
 
2013-07-12 08:27:07 AM  
Thanks to the death of the pension boomers can't afford to retire, which makes getting jobs by younger generations even harder. But hey, not having to pay pensions means higher stock dividends, right?
 
2013-07-12 08:28:47 AM  

Graffito: Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook

I see the problem.

When I was coming up the way to get ahead was to take on more work and responsibility (particularly for women and minorities).  After you proved that you could do it you might get a raise and/or promotion.  The work place has never been a perfect meritocracy, but if you are not willing to take on more challenges don't expect a promotion.  (I.e. don't expect the promotion first.)


That's like getting promoted to a coaching position by being a better player.  If you want to be the coach, show them what gains can be made from changes in coaching.  Work ethic only gets you to do the same thing more, vision and problem solving keep a business competitive.
 
2013-07-12 08:29:32 AM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Dracolich: If I make X for one hour of work and someone who does a chore for me charges X/2 for an hour, should I hire them to do it?

Why even bother having a dog or kids or a kitchen, then?


Refer to the next line:  because you like it.
 
2013-07-12 08:30:10 AM  

Farkbert: I don't know....I managed to do fairly well, but doing so meant:

1.) Busting my ass non stop.  (hint: if you've never worked 60-80 hour weeks for a couple years straight you haven't busted ass yet)
2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.
4.) Proving my worth again and again, but also always demanding compensation that is in line with my contributions.  I walked out of a job once because management lied about potential future stock options that never had any chance of happening.

/ in the end, they brought me back in with an agreement to pay me commissions on products sold, which was a very nice deal
// I quit 6 months later to go to a new startup, which in the end was a much better deal


That's called luck....don't confuse it with work.
 
2013-07-12 08:30:34 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Thanks to the death of the pension boomers can't afford to retire, which makes getting jobs by younger generations even harder. But hey, not having to pay pensions means higher stock dividends, right?


The money that corporations save by not providing pensions or health care can be used to pay employees more! Free market, yeah!
 
2013-07-12 08:31:58 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Graffito: Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook

I see the problem.

When I was coming up the way to get ahead was to take on more work and responsibility (particularly for women and minorities).  After you proved that you could do it you might get a raise and/or promotion.  The work place has never been a perfect meritocracy, but if you are not willing to take on more challenges don't expect a promotion.  (I.e. don't expect the promotion first.)

You valued yourself so little that you were willing to work for free? Hope your glorious bosses never took advantage of that.


Of course some did.  That's the way it works, but I got valuable experience to put on my resume, and I got a new job.  I've always volunteered for assignments that were a little beyond my experience level.  The employer took a chance that I might fail, and in exchange I got the chance to acquire new skills.
 
2013-07-12 08:34:04 AM  
I guess I lucked out.  36 years old, executive position in my organization.  Of the 22 other people who have my job across the state, I'm the youngest, but 6 are retiring in the next five years.  Three retired this past year and 40-50yr olds filled all the vacancies.  Of course, I work in government, so more people are are able to retire than in the private sector.

I actually think Gen X is pretty set, demographically speaking.  The boomers can't live forever.
 
2013-07-12 08:34:26 AM  

ordinarysteve: largedon: The Southern Dandy: They always told us growing up, that watching TV would turn our brains to mush.  Gen-Xers are the proof.  Those brain-washed, cable news watching idiots have farked up this country to the point where I'm not sure it can ever recover.  No, scratch that. I sure it won't ever recover.

Actually most X'ers I know hardly watch TV at all.

I think he's either being facetious or projecting all over himself


he ment boomers not x'ers
 
2013-07-12 08:35:19 AM  

Ishkur: mbillips: Generational groupings are the stupidest possible way to categorize people. I was born in '62; what do I have in common with someone born in '45 (other than remembering cars without seatbelts)? Gen X is supposedly '65 to '79? So if you were 21 in 2000, you were a peer of someone who was 35? No.

It has to do with post-war families. Boomer families had more children for longer, typically between 3-5 boomer kids over a period of 15 years, starting in 1946. Xer families had 1-3 kids, almost all in the 70s, and Millenial families had mostly 1 child in the late 80s. Almost never more than 2. This is due to the fact that child-rearing is becoming prohibitively expensive for modern societies.


I've seen that up close. I was born in '64. I have absolutely nothing in common with the generation that was born just ten years earlier, or ten years after. The older ones had, for the most part, better schools, cheaper access to higher education, and real apprenticeships still existed. The younger was gifted with a severely aged teacher workforce and school systems that had been butchered to the marrow to support Reagan's "throw bucketfulls of money" policies toward the Military and his owners in the supporting industries.

One of my best buds in high school was born in 65, his pop was wounded somewhere in France about a month after crossing the beach at Normandy. His oldest brother was killed in Vietnam in the mid-1960s. His youngest brother was born after that. Their mother was a nurse in some Army hospital in England and thats how their parents met. Their parents had 6 kids over the span of 24 years. Guessing, their mom was in her mid-40s when she had her last baby. Their sister was the original "knocked-up in high school" chick when the party scene took over world in the late 1970s.

My generation, born in the area around '62-'67 just didn't have a lot of kids. An awful lot of the people I knew who graduated high school in the early 1980s didn't have more than one or two, if any at all. Well, with the exception of Bob, he had something like 8 kids, but he started early and just a few months ago became a great-grampa, and he's still married to the woman he knocked up in our senior year. He's happier than a duck in a summer rainstorm. His family has been very productive.

I envy that a little bit.
 
2013-07-12 08:35:24 AM  
Work to live.  You're doing it wrong.
 
2013-07-12 08:35:52 AM  
Alonjar:

/because nobody else wears flannel

Never been to Maine, huh?  If you ain't wearing flannel and driving a Subaru you ain't doing it right.
 
2013-07-12 08:36:16 AM  
I'm a really late Boomer - I missed out on the Summer of Love but have to endure all the crap from my older brothers and sisters, like how they all went from being Yippies to being Yuppies. What I dislike about my own generation is the astounding hypocrisy. The guy who went to law school to represent injured workers? Yeah, he's now working for the insurance companies helping them screw injured workers out of their payouts. The friend who went to medical school and promised to devote 50% of his time to inner-city clinics? Now working for Kaiser and living in a gated community.

Not all of my friends sold out, but I've noticed one thing: the ones who got a little money, suddenly wanted ALL the money. There seems to be no middle ground among my circle of friends. You're either still working at a job you feel contributes to the overall "good" of society (teacher, nurse, etc) and watching your buying power erode and your career stall, or you're feeding at the trough and joining the country club.

I can understand the Gen X folks and the Millennial kids. They were smart enough to realize that the era of companies actually taking care of their workers is long gone. They see no reason to be "loyal" to a company whose upper management will sell them down the river faster than a New York minute.
 
2013-07-12 08:36:35 AM  
You know what their problem is, they think they're King Sh*t of F*ck Island.
 
2013-07-12 08:38:21 AM  

Kriggerel: Oh boy!
 This is the thread where every Gen Xer who dares to complain about getting handed a ration of shiat will be upbraided one one side as not bootstrappy enough by the FYIGM boomers still fellating Reagan's corpse, while hearing the dulcet cries of I EXPECT RESPECT!!! from the millennials on the others.
Fun times, fun times!


No. This is the thread where a bunch of people complain that their shiat sandwich is somehow worse than everybody else's shiat sandwich.
 
2013-07-12 08:40:42 AM  

ltr77: Alonjar:

/because nobody else wears flannel

Never been to Maine, huh?  If you ain't wearing flannel and driving a Subaru you ain't doing it right.


Untrue.  There are plenty of straight women in Maine.
 
2013-07-12 08:43:09 AM  

FLMountainMan: I guess I lucked out.  36 years old, executive position in my organization.  Of the 22 other people who have my job across the state, I'm the youngest, but 6 are retiring in the next five years.  Three retired this past year and 40-50yr olds filled all the vacancies.  Of course, I work in government, so more people are are able to retire than in the private sector.

I actually think Gen X is pretty set, demographically speaking.  The boomers can't live forever.


I'm thinking there will be some nice prices on retirement property for Gen X.
 
2013-07-12 08:43:46 AM  
fireclown:

Untrue.  There are plenty of straight women in Maine.

And unlike the rest of the country, the straight women here are allowed/required to drive Subaru's.
 
2013-07-12 08:45:55 AM  

GardenWeasel: I've seen this movie. Your Father was aloof and your Mother pushy because you are really a bastard child and she needs you to be upwardly mobile to atone for her sins. Does she have more pills and alcohol than the corner CVS?


I don't know what movie you're talking about, but yeah, my father was very aloof.  He worked incredibly hard and was gone most of the time.  He did make an effort when I was in High School to move to a less time-intensive position at work so he could spend more time with be before he went off to college, but I was in my teens before I saw my dad more than a few hours a week.

It's not like we've ever done DNA tests, but I'm the spitting image of what my dad looked like at my age.  Seriously, looking at old photos of him, the family resemblance is amazing.

My mother, yeah she drank constantly.  She liked to hide it.  The only time as a kid I noticed anything was funny was when I accidentally reached for her glass of coke one day instead of mine on the living room table.  She had a very strong amaretto and coke.  She was very heavily addicted to xanax for many years, even attempted suicide using them in a massive overdose about 5 years ago.  She says she's clean and off the alcohol and pills now, but I have no way to verify that.

steerforth: Your mom needed a job.


She had a job.  She used to be a buyer for a department store chain.  When she got pregnant with me, she had some complications, so she went on maternity leave a little early.  Once I was born, she devoted herself to being a full-time mother, and I was the 100% focus of her life from the day I was born, until around my junior year of college.

What changed?  Well, I went off to college, but that didn't stop her smothering.  I had a phone with an answering machine in my dorm room (remember, mid-to-late 90's, no cell phone), and she'd leave me a half-dozen messages during the day while I was in class.  She'd call me in the morning to wake me up, and want to talk for a half-hour or more every night before I went to sleep.

My dorm roommate positively hated the fact that my mother would constantly call wanting to talk to me and I wasn't in.  I didn't blame him.  In later years, once I got a cellphone, she would call me pretty much every hour to just say hi, to tell me what's coming on TV, to just chat.

She insisted on me coming home every weekend, so she'd spoil me with lavish dinners and luxuries.

What changed was I finally, at long last, got a social life.  I made actual friends (not just the kids of her friends who I was told to be friends with), I got a social life.  I moved out of the dorms, and out of my parents house (which apparently did a serious number on her mental health, already fragile) and got a job to support myself.  She freaked out at the idea that her son would be working at a convenience store.  In her mind, I was a College Student, so I deserved a "good job" like working in an office or something, not doing lowly retail work.  It wasn't pretty, and me seeking independence just accelerated her drinking and pill popping.

She has tried a few times to get a job.  The problem is, that her entire skill set painfully obsolete.  She has no idea how to use a computer.  She was very proud for many years that she didn't know how to use a computer, and if she needed to look anything up online, she'd call me on the phone and have me do it.  She used to practically brag she didn't know how to even turn the computer on.  She can use a basic cellphone, and a fax machine, but anything more advanced and she's lost.  She can't go back to being a department store buyer now.  She had an architectural draftsman's license in the mid 70's, but she's 40 years out of practice.  She refuses to do any manual labor.  She basically has no job skills, refuses to believe she needs to get any job skills, and blames this problem on "kids and those microsoft things".
 
2013-07-12 08:46:57 AM  

FLMountainMan: I guess I lucked out.  36 years old, executive position in my organization.  Of the 22 other people who have my job across the state, I'm the youngest, but 6 are retiring in the next five years.  Three retired this past year and 40-50yr olds filled all the vacancies.  Of course, I work in government, so more people are are able to retire than in the private sector.

I actually think Gen X is pretty set, demographically speaking.  The boomers can't live forever.


But they also won't leave anything to inherit. Not even their jobs.

/Gen X will just have to build everything from scratch, like they always have
//and die alone, like everyone that's done everything by themselves always ends up doing
 
2013-07-12 08:48:06 AM  
What I got from the Article:

Our generation feels like were stuck behind the big bad monolithic Boomer generation and they wont retire before those sweet talking upstart Millennials position themselves to take our jobs so were going to job surf our way to advancement by proving that we don't need this job and we don't like this company and fark all of you, were taking our candy and were going home!

Here's the thing...If you prove you can't be relied upon, no one is going to rely on you.

I've worked for one company.  I started at the bottom of it.  I never asked for a raise.  I never threatened to leave.  Now I run the company and money...isn't a problem.  Sooooooo.
Maybe the whole, lets jump ship as soon as we hit rapids isn't the best move.  K?


/Born in 76'
//hated Nirvana
///Ready...Player...One.

////cool beans.  (I had to stab myself after typing that.)
 
2013-07-12 08:48:50 AM  
Very late Gen X'er.  I've gotten ahead my whole life because I'm willing to put in the work(first official job when I was 16 and never stopped).  I've worked for large business, small business, medium business, public corporations, privately owned businesses, etc.  As the article mentions, large business is tough, but that's the case no matter what your age is.  You're a number to a large business.  Small and medium business is where its at.  Battlefield promotions, more responsibility than you would ever want(which is great for your resume), outside the box thinking is valued, etc.  I don't think that that has anything to do with being an X'er(though I can see how wanting to work for a small business could be seen as typical X'er counter-culture), but rather where business is today.

/I did work for one public megacorporation that truly took care of their employees(more perks than I've ever seen), but Fark has a real problem with their products: Anheuser-Busch
 
2013-07-12 08:49:26 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Doc Daneeka: I'm confused.

I was born in 1981 and am currently 32.

Sometimes I see people my age described as Gen X and sometimes as Millennials.  I know that these things don't have hard-and-fast boundaries, but I never know which generation I supposedly belong to.

Are you hardworking and industrious or are you whiny and lazy?


Hardworking and whiny. Ha. It's fun being in-between the generations.

My parents are in-between Boomers and X, and it's always seemed like they defied any stereotypes. My dad was more of a boomer when he was younger because he looked up to that lifestyle, but as he's gotten older he definitely sounds more like a X'er especially when it comes to priorities. Too bad it's with his second family (see the first half of the last sentence).

Anyway, even the front half of the millennials are way more hardworking than the back half, but only time will tell if that's a generational thing or a maturity thing. It'll be interesting to see how the interactions between X and Y play out once the boomers do die off.
 
2013-07-12 08:49:44 AM  

FLMountainMan: I guess I lucked out.  36 years old, executive position in my organization.  Of the 22 other people who have my job across the state, I'm the youngest, but 6 are retiring in the next five years.  Three retired this past year and 40-50yr olds filled all the vacancies.  Of course, I work in government, so more people are are able to retire than in the private sector.

I actually think Gen X is pretty set, demographically speaking.  The boomers can't live forever.


Yes and no.

As a few have pointed out in this thread, when Boomers retire the job sometimes goes away through attrition/defunding, or the job gets handed *woosh* over our heads and down to someone who's 30 or younger.

A lot of Gen X'ers are or soon will be facing this fun fact: After years of biding our time, the Millenials won't want us around. Don't want that icky old age to rub off on them. Only problem is we still have a good 20 years left in our career life span. The boomers and their kids will fark us one last time.

On the other hand a disproportionate number of us went from things like starting zines and bands in the 80s to starting dot coms in the 1990s and 2000's.. and/or were ground floor or early adopter on a whole bunch of these fun technologies you now use daily without knowing much about them, like TCP/IP and BGP... Anyone who started a career as a techie in the 1990s has loads of options now, many of them quite good indeed.. So we know how to make things, build things,always have. We'll be fine.

Ageism is a thing though. I can't get past how it suddenly is to be considered OLD looking by people out in the neighborhood or on the job. Not age 30 old, but age 50 old. The one you can't recover from. The one that says gtfo pops you don't know anything. Using technologies and environments that my peers and I helped build.

Thats a very wordy "Get off my lawn."
 
2013-07-12 08:49:49 AM  

Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: Definitions of Gen X that I see generally extend it to birth dates in the early 80s. Then again, the Millennial gen is generally defined as starting in the early 80s. As a 1981 baby, this is the source of my confusion.

I'm often considered too young to really be part of Gen X. But I don't identify with the Millennial generation either. I think of Millennials as people either in college now or recent grads. I've been out of college a decade now.


Do you have any siblings? ...how old are they?


That doesn't help much.

I have two older step-brothers from my (step-)father's first marriage who were born in the early-mid 70s and are clearly Gen-Xers.  I'm from my mom's first marriage, but re-married soon after I was born and I have two younger half-siblings from their 2nd marriage who were born in '88 and '90 and are clearly in Millennials.

So my siblings fall cleanly into both generations.  I'm in the middle but not particularly close in age to either set.
 
2013-07-12 08:50:28 AM  

Silverstaff: Speaking of generational conflict. . .

Boomers, in the 60's they were saying to never trust anybody over 30, who went to Woodstock, who got high as a kite on MJ, who were the hippies and flower children who weren't trusted by the "Greatest Generation" who thought that everything was falling apart because the kids these days didn't want to work and just wanted to listen to Rock & Roll music and party and avoid responsibility. . .are now acting just like their parents did way-back-when and acting like they were always super-hard working industrious people who never took the time to enjoy their youth and see the young of today as shiftless and lazy.



When I was in high school and college in the late 80s/mid-90s, all I ever heard from my elders was that GenX are a bunch of shiftless losers with no work ethic and questionable values. Well, now we're in our 30s or 40s and, frankly, I don't see any evidence that we're any lazier than any other generation. More snarky or sarcastic, maybe, but not lazy.

There was never anything wrong with being cynical about the age we grew up in. The Boomers had seemingly unbridled prosperity that started to lose steam right about the time many of the Xers were growing up and learning about how the world works. Especially late-Gen Xers. Being disillusioned or having to move back home after college (temporarily) wasn't something we wanted. It's just how it was for many of us. Just as it is now with GenY, Millennials, or whatever people are being called these days. But hell, these whippersnappers have it even worse than we did unless you're in one of the dwindling fields where demand outstrips supply.
 
2013-07-12 08:50:42 AM  

ChipNASA: You know what their problem is, they think they're King Sh*t of F*ck Island.


That is funny each time I see you use it.  Why its not your screen name I will never know.
 
2013-07-12 08:52:33 AM  

CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.


The flax seeds in my breakfast smoothie have now infiltrated the crevices of my nasal cavities.
 
2013-07-12 08:54:05 AM  

Doc Daneeka: I'm confused.

I was born in 1981 and am currently 32.

Sometimes I see people my age described as Gen X and sometimes as Millennials.  I know that these things don't have hard-and-fast boundaries, but I never know which generation I supposedly belong to.


Does one of your parents pay your cell phone bill?
 
2013-07-12 08:56:27 AM  

Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook


So you'll have the same job, for the same pay, for ever. Brilliant!
 
2013-07-12 08:56:44 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: Bollocks to the BBC and their "this content is not for domestic viewing" crap. Enjoy my license fee payments you assholes.


i stopped paying the fee many years ago. Now I watch programmes free an hour later than they show (BBC Iplayer), which suits me because I like to get up an hour later than most people and go to bed at least an hour later so the shows fit my bodyclock not the clock on the wall...

Most of the other channels fund themselves through adverts so I just download those shows as there is no fee to pay to watch.

/no TV, just internet.
 
2013-07-12 08:58:02 AM  

Silverstaff: GardenWeasel: I've seen this movie. Your Father was aloof and your Mother pushy because you are really a bastard child and she needs you to be upwardly mobile to atone for her sins. Does she have more pills and alcohol than the corner CVS?

I don't know what movie you're talking about, but yeah, my father was very aloof...


tl;dr
 
2013-07-12 08:58:45 AM  
HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.
 
2013-07-12 08:59:24 AM  

Doc Daneeka: I have two older step-brothers from my (step-)father's first marriage who were born in the early-mid 70s and are clearly Gen-Xers. I'm from my mom's first marriage, but re-married soon after I was born and I have two younger half-siblings from their 2nd marriage who were born in '88 and '90 and are clearly in Millennials.


mother mary of god, you ARE one hell on an anomaly, aren't you?

Howabout this: Did you hang out at video arcades a lot when you were a kid?
 
2013-07-12 09:00:09 AM  

crappie: Farkbert: I don't know....I managed to do fairly well, but doing so meant:

1.) Busting my ass non stop.  (hint: if you've never worked 60-80 hour weeks for a couple years straight you haven't busted ass yet)
2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.
4.) Proving my worth again and again, but also always demanding compensation that is in line with my contributions.  I walked out of a job once because management lied about potential future stock options that never had any chance of happening.

/ in the end, they brought me back in with an agreement to pay me commissions on products sold, which was a very nice deal
// I quit 6 months later to go to a new startup, which in the end was a much better deal

That's called luck....don't confuse it with work.


Oh I bet it was a lot of work, it`s just that the work done had nothing to do with the resulting situation, which was getting lucky with a new startup offer.

I remember some great words written on the wall outside the employmenty office in the 80`s, they said "WE WANT JOBS, NOT WORK"

boomers won`t get that...
 
2013-07-12 09:01:34 AM  

CarnySaur: They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.


You laugh, but Gen Xers grew up on punk rock and hip hop, back when both were counter-cultural movements centered around rejection of authority. Now it seems like authority has all the resources and we're frozen out. We're all tatted up, loud and intentionally irresponsible, and the mellenials have learned from our mistakes. Their culture is subtly subversive, with humor as the primary means of self-expression. Mellenials have been conditioned to consume information, process it and conform just enough to get paid, while quietly sneering at the whole silly routine. They're on the inside, laughing at everyone. We're on the outside, still trying to bring it all down.

Xers make the disruptive start-ups that employ Mellenials. Boomers are in charge of the large corporate institutions that reject Xers out of spite. Interesting times.
 
2013-07-12 09:01:48 AM  
Late Gen Xers got royally farked as they were the trailing edge who were graduating college right as Clinton's tech bubble began collapsing. They got hired then laid off within a year or two. They never really had a chance to get in on the gold rush of VC money or options like many of the rest of us.

I can see how that in-between generation would be extremely bitter about watching their older siblings getting rich while the golden ring remained out of their childish reach.
 
2013-07-12 09:04:26 AM  

Silverstaff: GardenWeasel: I've seen this movie. Your Father was aloof and your Mother pushy because you are really a bastard child and she needs you to be upwardly mobile to atone for her sins. Does she have more pills and alcohol than the corner CVS?

My mother, yeah she drank constantly.  She liked to hide it.  The only time as a kid I noticed anything was funny was when I accidentally reached for her glass of coke one day instead of mine on the living room table.  She had a very strong amaretto and coke.  She was very heavily addicted to xanax for many years, even attempted suicide using them in a massive overdose about 5 years ago.  She says she's clean and off the alcohol and pills now, but I have no way to verify that.

She had a job.  She used to be a buyer for a department store chain.  When she got pregnant with me, she had some complications, so she went on maternity leave a little early.  Once I was born, she devoted herself to being a full-time mother, and I was the 100% focus of her life from the day I was born, until around my junior year of college.

What changed?  Well, I went off to college, but that didn't stop her smothering.  I had a phone with an answering machine in my dorm room (remember, mid-to-late 90's, no cell phone), and she'd leave me a half-dozen messages during the day while I was in class.  She'd call me in the morning to wake me up, and want to talk for a ha ...


That's very sad. She should have put you up for adoption or left and lived a real life. You should buy her a copy of The Hours for her birthday, sit down and watch it with her, paying particular attention to the character Julianne Moore plays, and then apologise profusely.
 
2013-07-12 09:04:54 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-12 09:05:22 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

Yeah, that was pretty heavy. A true legend.


Bleah!

Cobain and his grungy, whiny, navel-gazing compatriots (along with Clear Channel's acquisition and station-mutation...may they rot in Hell) darn near killed my hard rock music altogether.
 
2013-07-12 09:05:45 AM  

mmagdalene: CarnySaur: Many Gen Xers graduated into weak job markets, carrying hefty student debt. Then, along the way, they lost ground in recessions, the dot-com bust, middle management downsizings and the housing market collapse.

They forgot to mention how none of us really recovered from the death of Kurt Cobain.

The flax seeds in my breakfast smoothie have now infiltrated the crevices of my nasal cavities.



See, this is why I never drink fruit.  It's probably best to avoid healthy foods altogether.
 
2013-07-12 09:05:53 AM  

Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.


No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.
 
2013-07-12 09:05:54 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.


Speaking as a 35-year-old -- don't pretend that we're any less incompetent.

Also, when they were 35, it's not like they weren't in the same positions you are in right now.
 
2013-07-12 09:07:20 AM  

Prevailing Wind: /Born in 76'
//hated Nirvana
///Ready...Player...One.

////cool beans.  (I had to stab myself after typing that.)


If I ever, ever, EVER hear "cool beans" again, I'm gonna have to choke a b*tch.
/we're roughly the same age
//dreads when "cool beans" makes an inevitable comeback among people younger than us, just as some of us wore tie-dye in the 90s
 
2013-07-12 09:08:58 AM  

WhippingBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.


Boss: "We need someone to fire because I want to hire a crony and we don't have the budget for another person. I know, that suck-up who cleaned the toilet. Fire his ass."

/seen it several times in my working life
 
2013-07-12 09:10:30 AM  
I'm a GenX er and I get what this article is saying, but if you want a glimpse into my life, get promoted ABOVE even one of these boomers(it does happen folks, just keep working). I've got one working for me now and he is unbearable. I will remember this thread when I eventually have to let him go. In his mind, because he is older and more experienced that HE should be running my team. Of course it never occurs to him that his ATTITUDE is what has been holding him back. He is a great source of information, but he is so bitter about his situation that hes bringing the team down. And he wears so much cologne that I can smell if hes in the building before I even walk in the door LOL.

My advice-make yourself indispensable to your company. If you dont like where you work. Start looking elsewhere and NETWORK. In this day and age you have to move around a bit to get into management.

I always laughed when I was growing up at the stereotype of my generation. lazy, obnoxious, etc etc. I had 3 jobs in high school as did most of my gen X friends. Now you've got millenials and the older generation REALLY understands what lazy and self entitled means LOL.
 
2013-07-12 09:10:38 AM  

OldManDownDRoad: WhippingBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.

Boss: "We need someone to fire because I want to hire a crony and we don't have the budget for another person. I know, that suck-up who cleaned the toilet. Fire his ass."

/seen it several times in my working life


You're right. What's the point of trying? Just throw up your hands and give up.
 
2013-07-12 09:10:40 AM  

Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.


What town you in? Well maybe if "programming" is what you know, not "I'm a developer." Gotta sell that shiat right. Double your salary depending. On the other hand if you are out in BFE or a college town then yeah, $45K sounds about right. In a big city though, you're underpaid.
 
2013-07-12 09:11:54 AM  

Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: I have two older step-brothers from my (step-)father's first marriage who were born in the early-mid 70s and are clearly Gen-Xers. I'm from my mom's first marriage, but re-married soon after I was born and I have two younger half-siblings from their 2nd marriage who were born in '88 and '90 and are clearly in Millennials.

mother mary of god, you ARE one hell on an anomaly, aren't you?

Howabout this: Did you hang out at video arcades a lot when you were a kid?


Sometimes.

I loved arcades, but they were clearly already declining when I was a kid.

I was in the prime age for NES/SNES when I was a kid, and they were clearly already displacing arcades.
 
2013-07-12 09:15:09 AM  

crappie: Farkbert: I don't know....I managed to do fairly well, but doing so meant:

1.) Busting my ass non stop.  (hint: if you've never worked 60-80 hour weeks for a couple years straight you haven't busted ass yet)
2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.
4.) Proving my worth again and again, but also always demanding compensation that is in line with my contributions.  I walked out of a job once because management lied about potential future stock options that never had any chance of happening.

/ in the end, they brought me back in with an agreement to pay me commissions on products sold, which was a very nice deal
// I quit 6 months later to go to a new startup, which in the end was a much better deal

That's called luck....don't confuse it with work.


You think he would have picked up the position at the startup without that work and experience? You think they hand those jobs out to any slacker with a pulse?

Keep investing in powerball tickets, dude.
 
2013-07-12 09:15:37 AM  

meanmutton: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Speaking as a 35-year-old -- don't pretend that we're any less incompetent.

Also, when they were 35, it's not like they weren't in the same positions you are in right now.


When the Boomers were 35, they had little to no student debt, and had likely spent over a decade working for the same company that paid enough so that one breadwinner could raise a nice middle class family out in the suburbs. The generation before them handed them everything, but it was the Boomers who pulled up the ladder behind them.
 
2013-07-12 09:16:56 AM  

fireclown: ltr77: Alonjar:

/because nobody else wears flannel

Never been to Maine, huh?  If you ain't wearing flannel and driving a Subaru you ain't doing it right.

Untrue.  There are plenty of straight women in Maine.


I've met both of them.
 
2013-07-12 09:18:07 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: Definitions of Gen X that I see generally extend it to birth dates in the early 80s. Then again, the Millennial gen is generally defined as starting in the early 80s. As a 1981 baby, this is the source of my confusion.

I'm often considered too young to really be part of Gen X. But I don't identify with the Millennial generation either. I think of Millennials as people either in college now or recent grads. I've been out of college a decade now.


Do you have any siblings? ...how old are they?

That doesn't help much.

I have two older step-brothers from my (step-)father's first marriage who were born in the early-mid 70s and are clearly Gen-Xers.  I'm from my mom's first marriage, but re-married soon after I was born and I have two younger half-siblings from their 2nd marriage who were born in '88 and '90 and are clearly in Millennials.

So my siblings fall cleanly into both generations.  I'm in the middle but not particularly close in age to either set.


Doc Daneeka: Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: Definitions of Gen X that I see generally extend it to birth dates in the early 80s. Then again, the Millennial gen is generally defined as starting in the early 80s. As a 1981 baby, this is the source of my confusion.

I'm often considered too young to really be part of Gen X. But I don't identify with the Millennial generation either. I think of Millennials as people either in college now or recent grads. I've been out of college a decade now.


Do you have any siblings? ...how old are they?

That doesn't help much.

I have two older step-brothers from my (step-)father's first marriage who were born in the early-mid 70s and are clearly Gen-Xers.  I'm from my mom's first marriage, but re-married soon after I was born and I have two younger half-siblings from their 2nd marriage who were born in '88 and '90 and are clearly in Millennials.

So my siblings fall cleanly into both generations.  I'm in the middle but not particularly close in age to either set.


There's this really cool book that mainly concerns the so-called Greatest Generation, but there's this catch you'll like.
 
2013-07-12 09:18:10 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Sometimes.
I loved arcades, but they were clearly already declining when I was a kid.
I was in the prime age for NES/SNES when I was a kid, and they were clearly already displacing arcades.


Congratulations: You're Generation-X.

The Millenials don't even recognize an era where you had to leave your house to play video games.
 
2013-07-12 09:18:37 AM  

Ishkur: Silverstaff: Seriously, my mother was a prototype helicopter parent.

Boomers have a tendency to "overparent". A lot of it comes from their own experiences growing up. Boomers, across the board, universally reviled their parents (and violently fought against their parents generation as soon as they were old enough to). They were raised by the war generation; indeed, some households mimic'd the military barracks their fathers had become accustomed, with utmost discipline and loyalty demanded at all times. Boomers did not have unhappy childhoods, but they grew to resent the stark discipline, rigid morality, and harsh hierarchical structure that their war vet fathers enforced.

So when the Boomers had children of their own, they vowed to not raise them the way they were raised. So instead of being a taskmaster, they sought to be their child's best friend, and involve themselves in every aspect of their child's lives, and give them unconditional affirmation and confidence. And now we're seeing the result of that: A generation that has never been told no, that is conditioned to receive praise and acceptance for everything they do, and expect to be rewarded not for succeeding, but just for the attempt.

The solution, of course, is somewhere in the middle. What children really need from their parents is not a drill sergeant and definitely not a best buddy -- what they need is an actual farking parent.


well put. and a very interesting read.
 
2013-07-12 09:19:24 AM  
I'm in the same boat.

I just work less.

Fark'm
 
2013-07-12 09:23:42 AM  

Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.


I just want to say that Gen Y is NOT the same as Millenials.  Unlike the younguns, I CAN hold a face-to-face conversation, ignore facebook, and hold a steady job.

/apparently I'm invisible to whomever writes these stupid articles.
 
2013-07-12 09:25:35 AM  

TommyymmoT: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.


Congratulations. You have just described Walmarts management structure.
 
2013-07-12 09:26:13 AM  

dready zim: Oh I bet it was a lot of work, it`s just that the work done had nothing to do with the resulting situation, which was getting lucky with a new startup offer.

I remember some great words written on the wall outside the employmenty office in the 80`s, they said "WE WANT JOBS, NOT WORK"

boomers won`t get that...


Success is what happens when preparedness meets and seizes opportunity.  "Luck" is an extremely relative term.

You need to grow up.
 
2013-07-12 09:28:36 AM  

snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.


As a small child in the 70s, I grew up with 3 TV channels, a rotary phone, the local newspaper & the public library as the only sources of news/information...yet by the time I entered college, we had multiple cable TV channels & personal computers which could dial into this new thing called "the world wide web". Many people were starting to get personal cell phones as well.

That's a pretty radical change in the flow of information, most of it occurring within the span of one decade (the 80s). So really, I'm honestly not sure what technology I'd ascribe to GenXers since so much of it changed - and kept changing - during our childhoods/teen years.
 
2013-07-12 09:29:24 AM  
Interesting, I don't know what draws us as a group, but FARK seems to be full of x-y gappers.

Early boomers and late boomers are different. The former were eligible for Vietnam, while the latter were not. Same goes for their parents and WWII vs Korea.

My father was a typical boomer - his father was an alcoholic, and a WWII vet that painted anything at his house that stopped moving long enough in gunboat grey. His mother was college educated, but stay-at-home and very active in all the social clubs. They were both fairly strict and my father rebelled after he graduated high school. He ended up making six figures, was way too easy on me, and died in his 50's from stress.

My mother is a late boomer - her dad is a Korean War vet and her mom worked, so she was the mother to all her younger siblings. She married young, had me young, mostly to get out of her house. She was a stay at home mom to us until I was 7 and my parents divorced. She was then thrust into the workforce and she's done fairly well considering, but was majorly screwed by the financial collapse (both by the market and through corporate downsizing) and she'll have to work until she dies.

I was born in the late 70's, oldest of the bunch, and loved hanging out at arcades. I grew up fearing we'd all be nuked any day. Latchkey kid. I don't really relate with true Xers (as they're defined), but my experiences and lifestyle define me as one. I'm definitely not a millennial, though I identify with them a bit, too
 
2013-07-12 09:29:32 AM  

WhippingBoy: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.


There's a reason you're called WhippingBoy, right?

Sucking up to the man will get you nowhere. And you'll never get rich working for somebody else.
 
2013-07-12 09:30:22 AM  

Darke: Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.

I just want to say that Gen Y is NOT the same as Millenials. Unlike the younguns, I CAN hold a face-to-face conversation, ignore facebook, and hold a steady job.

/apparently I'm invisible to whomever writes these stupid articles.


Yes they are. Some retard working in advertising just decided to change the name.
 
2013-07-12 09:33:54 AM  

OldManDownDRoad: WhippingBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.

Boss: "We need someone to fire because I want to hire a crony and we don't have the budget for another person. I know, that suck-up who cleaned the toilet. Fire his ass."

/seen it several times in my working life



Um, yeah.  The problem with taking on really hard assignments is that oftentimes you can't get it done according to management's ridiculous timeline.  Despite their doom and gloom attitude, most tech people consistently underestimate how long it will take to do something, especially if they are doing it themselves.  I call it The Star Trek Syndrome.  No matter what Capt. Kirk needed, Scotty was always always able to pull it off in time and save the day.  He'd grumble and complain, but he'd get it done.  Geordi only added to this fictional ability of every time pulling the rabbit out of the hat just in the nick of time.  The real world is rarely like Star Trek and all too often "hero engineers" fail to live up to the hype.  After a few rounds of this, nobody believes you anymore.

/seen it more times than I can count
 
2013-07-12 09:34:58 AM  
As a true Gen X'er, here's my response:  F*ck you.  I don't care.
 
2013-07-12 09:40:38 AM  

theknuckler_33: "Virtually every one of my friends is doing something entrepreneurial," either starting a business or going to work for a start-up, she said. "Xers are drawn to flatter, less-hierarchical firms. They want to take their destinies into their own hands."

I usually loathe articles discussing the traits of entire generations and while I wouldn't necessarily call going to work for a start-up as 'entrepreneurial', I used to work for Prudential Insurance until I was about 29 and left to work for a very small company. And while I left Pru because I hated it there, one of the big appeals of the new company was its size. Of course over the years, that company has been acquired twice and I'm back to working for a huge company again, but those 4-5 years when that small company was still independent, my salary level went up faster than I had ever hoped for. I'm no senior VP or anything, but that really jump started my income compared to what was going on at Pru.




Nascent Entrepreneur, they are called.
 
2013-07-12 09:41:12 AM  

steerforth: Darke: Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.

I just want to say that Gen Y is NOT the same as Millenials.  Unlike the younguns, I CAN hold a face-to-face conversation, ignore facebook, and hold a steady job.

/apparently I'm invisible to whomever writes these stupid articles.

Yes they are. Some retard working in advertising just decided to change the name.


>.< goddammitsomuch.  I should probably actually wiki it before i type.  I stand corrected.

/doesn't mean I have to like it.  I might be technically a millennial (85), but I have nothing in common with them.
 
2013-07-12 09:43:46 AM  

Silverstaff: These "generation" distinctions are a little artificial.

I was born in 1978.  A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X.  The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

The thing is, I have little in common with Gen X.  I never knew who Kurt Cobain was at the time, and for quite a while when other kids were talking about Nirvana in school I thought Buddhism was a fad.  I never listened to grunge music, and I was sheltered enough from a lot of pop culture as a kid I didn't have many of the same cultural touchstones of Gen X (aside from watching the fall of communism, the destruction of Challenger, the Gulf War, ect).

On the other hand, whenever I read about Millennials, I read it and think "that's me".  Grew up around the rise of the PC and the internet, had a devil of a time even finding a job when I went into the workforce, part of a generation which was told from childhood that a college education is self-justifying and to just go and you'll be able to pay for those student loans later. . .

. . .but authors and demographers and such keep wanting to call me a Generation X'er because I was born in '78,


The only generational distinction with hard numbers behind is the baby boom, because it's an actual thing which occurred after WWII and until about 1964, which is when there was a real, statistical drop in the annual birthrate.

All the cultural touchstones marked with Gen. X and the millenials are the same thing, because the boomers were around during all of it. They didn't disappear for 30 years while Kurt Cobain and the internet happened. They watched all that sh*t go down too.

We should accept that the most likely cause of all this sh*t is powerful people sucking up all the resources, and pissing on the middle class and poor, while we are told to fight over the scraps.
 
2013-07-12 09:45:03 AM  
Actually, I think the year brackets for 'generations' should be smaller now, what with the increase in information relay and technological advancements.  I can remember before the internet (I was young sure, but still), whereas my husband always had the internet.
 
2013-07-12 09:48:37 AM  

Arthur Prefect: bathbubble: steerforth: CarnySaur:

Perhaps, but I'm 29 (so sort of a millennial?) and I have to say, Albus Dumbledore was a far better role model than most celebrities that I see on tv. Harry Potter was/is my escape from some rough times, and I'm not ashamed to say that fictional characters from books helped me far more than falling for a band member or film star. And it is definitely a series that is well-known throughout the world.

Your mileage may vary on that though, as we are all different.


Oh, I definitely agree with that! Dumbledore>Cobain for sure
 
2013-07-12 09:49:27 AM  

Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.


It's the same sh*t as when you'd come over, and someone would break out the photo albums and vacation slides. Only now you can do it instantly, instead of horde it in a musty book in your basement.
 
2013-07-12 09:51:24 AM  

Persnickety: Um, yeah.  The problem with taking on really hard assignments is that oftentimes you can't get it done according to management's ridiculous timeline.  Despite their doom and gloom attitude, most tech people consistently underestimate how long it will take to do something, especially if they are doing it themselves.  I call it The Star Trek Syndrome.  No matter what Capt. Kirk needed, Scotty was always always able to pull it off in time and save the day.  He'd grumble and complain, but he'd get it done.  Geordi only added to this fictional ability of every time pulling the rabbit out of the hat just in the nick of time.  The real world is rarely like Star Trek and all too often "hero engineers" fail to live up to the hype.  After a few rounds of this, nobody believes you anymore.


Um No.  Decent management realizes when you are taking on an assignment that involves new skills and allows for extra time and inevitable missteps.  They are absorbing the cost of your on-the-job training in the hopes that it will payoff with a more capable employee.  Secondly, I've never seen anyone in management take the engineers estimates at face value.
 
2013-07-12 09:51:40 AM  

Ishkur: Silverstaff: Seriously, my mother was a prototype helicopter parent.

Boomers have a tendency to "overparent". A lot of it comes from their own experiences growing up. Boomers, across the board, universally reviled their parents (and violently fought against their parents generation as soon as they were old enough to). They were raised by the war generation; indeed, some households mimic'd the military barracks their fathers had become accustomed, with utmost discipline and loyalty demanded at all times. Boomers did not have unhappy childhoods, but they grew to resent the stark discipline, rigid morality, and harsh hierarchical structure that their war vet fathers enforced.

So when the Boomers had children of their own, they vowed to not raise them the way they were raised. So instead of being a taskmaster, they sought to be their child's best friend, and involve themselves in every aspect of their child's lives, and give them unconditional affirmation and confidence. And now we're seeing the result of that: A generation that has never been told no, that is conditioned to receive praise and acceptance for everything they do, and expect to be rewarded not for succeeding, but just for the attempt.

The solution, of course, is somewhere in the middle. What children really need from their parents is not a drill sergeant and definitely not a best buddy -- what they need is an actual farking parent.


My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"
 
2013-07-12 09:56:01 AM  

jayphat: TommyymmoT: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.

Congratulations. You have just described Walmarts management structure.


Yeah, that is really true with most retail management.  If you have a supervisor you don't like/doesn't like you and they areolder than you by more than a few years, you can usually wait them out.  They will retire/move on.  If they are similar in age or younger than you.... well...  Might as well start looking for a new job.
 
2013-07-12 09:57:16 AM  

Gothnet: WhippingBoy: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.

There's a reason you're called WhippingBoy, right?

Sucking up to the man will get you nowhere. And you'll never get rich working for somebody else.


Yep, you're right. What the hell was I thinking?
 
2013-07-12 09:58:56 AM  

Deep Contact: I forgot, who are we talking about again?


Soundgarden.
 
2013-07-12 09:59:00 AM  

SharkaPult: jayphat: TommyymmoT: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.

Congratulations. You have just described Walmarts management structure.

Yeah, that is really true with most retail management.  If you have a supervisor you don't like/doesn't like you and they areolder than you by more than a few years, you can usually wait them out.  They will retire/move on.  If they are similar in age or younger than you.... well...  Might as well start looking for a new job.


Walmarts problem is quite the opposite. If they are older, you might as well look on. As they were probably put there by someone else who is older and has been with the company forever. So you have two choices: move on or wait for them to die. And people wonder why Walmart has issues with growth. Hard to grow when the young talent abandons ship because the old are entrenched in a position until they die.
 
2013-07-12 09:59:31 AM  

Girion47: My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"


You: "You give me what I want, or I'll make the chopper noises again, dad!"
Dad: "No... no!!! Anything but that... of course you can have what you want... we're still buddies, right?"
 
2013-07-12 10:02:49 AM  

verbaltoxin: Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.

It's the same sh*t as when you'd come over, and someone would break out the photo albums and vacation slides. Only now you can do it instantly, instead of horde it in a musty book in your basement.



Yeah, except that now the entire world can flip through your crap, and I don't know if you've noticed, but most of those people are nuts.
 
2013-07-12 10:06:15 AM  

Phinn: verbaltoxin: Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.

It's the same sh*t as when you'd come over, and someone would break out the photo albums and vacation slides. Only now you can do it instantly, instead of horde it in a musty book in your basement.

Yeah, except that now the entire world can flip through your crap, and I don't know if you've noticed, but most of those people are nuts.


That's been the internet's biggest coup: revealing just how utterly stupid and mentally ill most people really are.

It's amazing society hasn't devolved to mass murder and cannibalism, when you think about it. We're maybe a button push away from that happening everyday.
 
2013-07-12 10:14:02 AM  

Ishkur: Doc Daneeka: Sometimes.
I loved arcades, but they were clearly already declining when I was a kid.
I was in the prime age for NES/SNES when I was a kid, and they were clearly already displacing arcades.

Congratulations: You're Generation-X.

The Millenials don't even recognize an era where you had to leave your house to play video games.


I suppose you're right.

And though I was young at the time, I'm old enough to remember when Nirvana and grunge hit the scene and recognized that as a significant change from the pop music that had been on the radio before.

I guess that puts me more at the trailing edge of the Gen-X group.
 
2013-07-12 10:14:57 AM  
I love this argument so much. Where i work there aren't any X'ers, hilariously enough. It's all mid 80's millenials that are being trained in by soon-to-be-retiring boomers that made a fark load of money as project managers and now want out.
 
2013-07-12 10:16:11 AM  
Biggest difference I've seen between Xers and millennials at work is that millennials wait to be told and have to be told to do anything. They don't go figure out how to do things very well - about zero creativity and no autodidaction. It's even worse for my kids generation. Holy shiat. Then they expect a cookie any time they come up with something that's been done the same way for 30 years.

"Oh, you learned how to answer the phone!"
"Yeah, can I have tomorrow off?"
 
2013-07-12 10:16:21 AM  
number 1,  all the members of congress are boomers, and they were voted in by boomers.  boomers you have FAILED, yes I said it, you are a giant group of selfish failures (may God have mercy on your souls)

number 2,  the x'rs are morons for just accepting whatever the media throws at them, and voting obama in.

number 3,   I believe that the boomers have failed humanity as a whole.  And I know this because they are vastly responsible in allowing the federal government to become way way way overpowered.


most importantly:          If the boomers had any balls or brains, they would of protected their children instead of burdening them.
 
2013-07-12 10:16:24 AM  

WhippingBoy: Girion47: My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"

You: "You give me what I want, or I'll make the chopper noises again, dad!"
Dad: "No... no!!! Anything but that... of course you can have what you want... we're still buddies, right?"


More like

Dad:  You follow me around and pick up any speck of dirt I point out on the carpet or I'll throw more dishes at you or throw you down the steps again.
Me:  ......ok sir.
 
2013-07-12 10:17:46 AM  

unlikely: These threads are almost as predictable as bicycle threads.

Boomer: Those gen X whiners just need to work harder.
Gen Xer: Whatever, gramps. How 'bout you retire?
Millennial: We can't even GET jobs!
Boomer: Check back with me when you work as hard as WE did.
Everyone: Whatever, Gramps.

Someone posts a picture of the "Worked a summer job/bought a new car" "Quit a job/got a new one" shoops.

Yay.


Generation Jones:  You people are all idiots.
 
2013-07-12 10:19:15 AM  

verbaltoxin: All the cultural touchstones marked with Gen. X and the millenials are the same thing, because the boomers were around during all of it. They didn't disappear for 30 years while Kurt Cobain and the internet happened. They watched all that sh*t go down too.


Fair enough, but a person's age at the time said sh*t goes down is still important. GenXers & Millenials were young when personal computers/the internet/social networking took shape, and are more comfortable using them. I know a few Baby Boomers who also have good computer/tech skills, but the majority are still asking me how to copy/paste/print from Excel.

I used to laugh at this...until I decided to go back to school recently. At age 42, I'm suddenly realizing my mind is not so much a sponge as a sieve now. :~( It sucks, and learning new skills takes a lot more effort. I'm committed to do it, but am beginning to see how older people - when faced with learning something new - could easily say 'f*ck it' out of laziness.

We should accept that the most likely cause of all this sh*t is powerful people sucking up all the resources, and pissing on the middle class and poor, while we are told to fight over the scraps.

Ultimately, you're right. What's happening now is not necessarily Baby Boomers vs. Everyone Else: it's the usual Haves vs. Have-Nots. Plenty of Baby Boomers (like my parents) are getting just as screwed as the rest of us.
 
2013-07-12 10:20:46 AM  

Graffito: Persnickety: Um, yeah.  The problem with taking on really hard assignments is that oftentimes you can't get it done according to management's ridiculous timeline.  Despite their doom and gloom attitude, most tech people consistently underestimate how long it will take to do something, especially if they are doing it themselves.  I call it The Star Trek Syndrome.  No matter what Capt. Kirk needed, Scotty was always always able to pull it off in time and save the day.  He'd grumble and complain, but he'd get it done.  Geordi only added to this fictional ability of every time pulling the rabbit out of the hat just in the nick of time.  The real world is rarely like Star Trek and all too often "hero engineers" fail to live up to the hype.  After a few rounds of this, nobody believes you anymore.

Um No.  Decent management realizes when you are taking on an assignment that involves new skills and allows for extra time and inevitable missteps.  They are absorbing the cost of your on-the-job training in the hopes that it will payoff with a more capable employee.  Secondly, I've never seen anyone in management take the engineers estimates at face value.


Where do you work that management is so wise?  Engineering is a cost center and the goal is always to push down and reduce those costs.  If you are a manager and your boss (who has little to no tech experience) says all he can give you is a budget of X and your team of technical workers say they can do it for X, you'll be seen as a budget padder if you insist on 1.5X, even if you know better.  You may be right, but what does that matter?  The smarter move is to take the budget of X, let it overrun and then blame your team and/or subtly imply that your boss doesn't know what he's doing.
 
2013-07-12 10:20:59 AM  

Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.


Problem with some of that is family owned companies. You might have (speaking from some experiences) a kid of an ancient boomer that uses the business as their own piggy bank at the behest of the employees. Then when things turn south do they hire more competent or driven employees? Nah, they cash out and drive what's left into bankruptcy or just close shop or sell out, cuz dad is dead and he can't do shiat about his kids bad decisions anymore. Everybody loses, not just the gen Xers that could have kept the ship afloat.
 
2013-07-12 10:29:02 AM  

Darke: steerforth: Darke: Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.

I just want to say that Gen Y is NOT the same as Millenials.  Unlike the younguns, I CAN hold a face-to-face conversation, ignore facebook, and hold a steady job.

/apparently I'm invisible to whomever writes these stupid articles.

Yes they are. Some retard working in advertising just decided to change the name.

>.< goddammitsomuch.  I should probably actually wiki it before i type.  I stand corrected.

/doesn't mean I have to like it.  I might be technically a millennial (85), but I have nothing in common with them.


No one on the planet wants to be characterised by their supposed "generation", and fair enough. It is useful for demographers, as Ishkur has eloquently pointed out, but apart from that it means fark all except as an excuse to biatch about others and as a tool for marketers.

Then again, I rang my mother the other day to say happy 64th birthday, and she not only joked about the Beatles song but told me she and her partner had been over to see a similarly aged couple that afternoon, and were subsequently joined by another couple. Apparently they all sat around discussing whether an Australian, British, New Zealand or Canadian pension was more lucrative and which to apply for, all the while smoking doobies, the raw ingredients of which one couple currently propagates, tends and sells to such an extent that they don't even need a pension, even though they are entitled to one.  That is so boomer it's farking BOOMER.
 
2013-07-12 10:30:07 AM  

steerforth: Darke: steerforth: Darke: Phinn: snowshovel: Anyway....I'd probably give the millenials the internet (which I can argue that Generation X may get)...but the millenials more importantly get: always on social connections.

Late Boomers built personal computers and the web software itself, Gen-X built the post-web Internet and blogging, but the Millenials have built the latest round of social media and a lot of apps.

What's the deal with the Gen-Y/Millenial constant social media thing, anyway?  Before the web, Gen-Xers (like me) were the kind of people to keep a Post Office box instead of getting mail at home.  (It helps keep Sallie Mae off our backs.)  The last thing we'd do is put our entire lives online.

I just want to say that Gen Y is NOT the same as Millenials.  Unlike the younguns, I CAN hold a face-to-face conversation, ignore facebook, and hold a steady job.

/apparently I'm invisible to whomever writes these stupid articles.

Yes they are. Some retard working in advertising just decided to change the name.

>.< goddammitsomuch.  I should probably actually wiki it before i type.  I stand corrected.

/doesn't mean I have to like it.  I might be technically a millennial (85), but I have nothing in common with them.

No one on the planet wants to be characterised by their supposed "generation", and fair enough. It is useful for demographers, as Ishkur has eloquently pointed out, but apart from that it means fark all except as an excuse to biatch about others and as a tool for marketers.

Then again, I rang my mother the other day to say happy 64th birthday, and she not only joked about the Beatles song but told me she and her partner had been over to see a similarly aged couple that afternoon, and were subsequently joined by another couple. Apparently they all sat around discussing whether an Australian, British, New Zealand or Canadian pension was more lucrative and which to apply for, all the while smoking doobies, the raw ingredients of which one coupl ...


meanwhile they pushed D.A.R.E. down your throat as you were growing up?
 
2013-07-12 10:37:03 AM  

Girion47: WhippingBoy: Girion47: My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"

You: "You give me what I want, or I'll make the chopper noises again, dad!"
Dad: "No... no!!! Anything but that... of course you can have what you want... we're still buddies, right?"

More like

Dad:  You follow me around and pick up any speck of dirt I point out on the carpet or I'll throw more dishes at you or throw you down the steps again.
Me:  ......ok sir.


I got the same thing without that level of violence.  Mostly a lot of yelling and some mild form of violence.  He is a Vietnam era Army vet., didn't see combat.  It must have something to do with the training.  A few times I did get:
Dad: Did you take care of what I asked you to do?
Me: What?
then yelling, because he had told me to do something while I slept and I was suppose to remember to do it.  Somehow writing a note was too much for him.  When he wasn't yelling, it was lets go play a sport.

/only good moment was when my lil bro (9 yrs my jr) called me spoiled, dad ripped him good.
//I was too busy laughing at my bro to be mad.
 
2013-07-12 10:39:12 AM  
re: 9/11 being Millenial's Cobain/Lennon. Nah, that wasn't generational. When Lennon died, it didn't effect the Boomer's parents. Ditto Cobain/Xers parents.

My guess is that generational lines have as much to do with your parents as when you're born. I was the eldest child of War Babies and am very GenX in (bad) attitude. Best bud was born a year later, but was the youngest child of Depression kids and he's very Boomer.
 
2013-07-12 10:41:40 AM  

Ishkur: What are you talking about? The video arcade was the coolest place to be in the 80s and lots of girls were there. Moreover, it was something that existed just for Xers because it died out in the 90s when everyone got home consoles. For a brief period, it was THE hangout if you were underage.


So true.

I worked at an arcade (for free tokens) in high school. Lots of people hung out there.

Even in college in the 80s my gf and I would hit the arcade some nights.

Sitting home alone playing a game seems less fun to me because of my experience in the "arcades are a thing" decade.
 
2013-07-12 10:43:28 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: Bollocks to the BBC and their "this content is not for domestic viewing" crap. Enjoy my license fee payments you assholes.


You're a boot-strappy conservative. Why don't you move somewhere better?
 
2013-07-12 10:44:01 AM  

Girion47: steerforth:

No one on the planet wants to be characterised by their supposed "generation", and fair enough. It is useful for demographers, as Ishkur has eloquently pointed out, but apart from that it means fark all except as an excuse to biatch about others and as a tool for marketers.

Then again, I rang my mother the other day to say happy 64th birthday, and she not only joked about the Beatles song but told me she and her partner had been over to see a similarly aged couple that afternoon, and were subsequently joined by another couple. Apparently they all sat around discussing whether an Australian, British, New Zealand or Canadian pension was more lucrative and which to apply for, all the while smoking doobies, the raw ingredients of whi ...

meanwhile they pushed D.A.R.E. down your throat as you were growing up?


D.A.R.E? Dare to be different? Truth or dare?
 
2013-07-12 10:51:23 AM  

Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.


You think cleaning houses will net you more than $45K a year w/ benefits?
 
2013-07-12 10:51:24 AM  

Persnickety: Graffito: Persnickety: Um, yeah.  The problem with taking on really hard assignments is that oftentimes you can't get it done according to management's ridiculous timeline.  Despite their doom and gloom attitude, most tech people consistently underestimate how long it will take to do something, especially if they are doing it themselves.  I call it The Star Trek Syndrome.  No matter what Capt. Kirk needed, Scotty was always always able to pull it off in time and save the day.  He'd grumble and complain, but he'd get it done.  Geordi only added to this fictional ability of every time pulling the rabbit out of the hat just in the nick of time.  The real world is rarely like Star Trek and all too often "hero engineers" fail to live up to the hype.  After a few rounds of this, nobody believes you anymore.

Um No.  Decent management realizes when you are taking on an assignment that involves new skills and allows for extra time and inevitable missteps.  They are absorbing the cost of your on-the-job training in the hopes that it will payoff with a more capable employee.  Secondly, I've never seen anyone in management take the engineers estimates at face value.

Where do you work that management is so wise?  Engineering is a cost center and the goal is always to push down and reduce those costs.  If you are a manager and your boss (who has little to no tech experience) says all he can give you is a budget of X and your team of technical workers say they can do it for X, you'll be seen as a budget padder if you insist on 1.5X, even if you know better.  You may be right, but what does that matter?  The smarter move is to take the budget of X, let it overrun and then blame your team and/or subtly imply that your boss doesn't know what he's doing.


I work for a small software company in northeast Ohio.  Management here makes lots of mistakes as do we all.
What surprises me is people in this thread who discount the cost to the employer of employee mistakes.  I am generally grateful for the opportunity to take on more complex assignments.  I know that if we don't at least break even it could mean layoffs so while I'm thrashing around trying to figure out how to make something work the last thing on my mind is how much I am getting paid.  If we make a profit, I'll be remembered at bonus time.
 
2013-07-12 10:53:04 AM  

Ishkur: Do you have any siblings? ...how old are they? ....how old were your parents when they had you? Were they Boomers?

One of the more common misconceptions about Xers is that they were the children of the Boomers. This is wrong -- well, some might be children of Boomer teenage pregnancies or early adults, but this wasn't common; the vast majority of Boomers held off having children until their 30s. Some Xers are younger siblings of Boomers, but most are actually late children of "war babies" (people born from 1939-1945).

Xers were not as large or as numerous as the Boomers so they could not affect society with their social inertia like the Boomers could. They could never lead trends, they could only follow them. They were often forgotten and left out in the cold, too small to be attractive to market forces or amass great social change. They were the first generation of the dual income family ethic. They were the latchkey kids forced to raise themselves because both parents always worked. Factor these altogether: Forgotten by the world because they don't matter, forgotten by the industry of society because they're a market minority, forgotten at home because no one's ever around..... and you have the surly, brooding angst canonized in grunge music, John Hughes movies and mcjobs. This crippling worldview germinates apathy and disillusionment. No identity, no purpose, no future, no label. They are X.

The Millenials are generally considered to be born between 82-99 with a peak year of 1990. They are the TRUE children of the Boomers. They are a much larger, much fatter demographic than the Xers, so their affect on social change is a lot more evocative. But they are not as large or as numerous as the Boomers. The problem with large population groups is they tend to be more full of themselves (because they have a ready supply of unconditional peer-affirmation)


Your assumption that "the vast majority of boomers held off having children until their 30s" is incorrect and led you to the incorrect conclusion that the millennials are the "true children of the boomers."   Mother's average age at first birth was around 21 all through the early 1970s and was still only 24 by the end of the 1980s.  (Even average age at 4th birth was under 30 until the mid-1990s.)    The boomers were born 1946-64, and they were having their kids in their early to mid 20s, so most boomer kids were being born in the early 1960s through the mid 1980s, which is where GenX squarely falls.  Most GenXers are going to have baby boomer parents and some memory of being a kid in the 1980s.    Yes, some boomers delayed childbearing so long that their kids were born too late to be GenX. But, even a late boomer  born in 1964 that gave birth at age 33 in 1997 would have their baby surrounded in the nursery with babies born to 20-27 year old GenX parents.    One reason the millennials are interesting is that they include an unprecedented proportion of kids born to established (if not affluent) and highly educated older parents.  While not a majority, they were large enough in number not to be weird for having "old" parents, and were able to use their advantages to overshadow their peers.
 
2013-07-12 10:53:36 AM  

steerforth: Girion47: steerforth:

No one on the planet wants to be characterised by their supposed "generation", and fair enough. It is useful for demographers, as Ishkur has eloquently pointed out, but apart from that it means fark all except as an excuse to biatch about others and as a tool for marketers.

Then again, I rang my mother the other day to say happy 64th birthday, and she not only joked about the Beatles song but told me she and her partner had been over to see a similarly aged couple that afternoon, and were subsequently joined by another couple. Apparently they all sat around discussing whether an Australian, British, New Zealand or Canadian pension was more lucrative and which to apply for, all the while smoking doobies, the raw ingredients of whi ...

meanwhile they pushed D.A.R.E. down your throat as you were growing up?

D.A.R.E? Dare to be different? Truth or dare?


Drug Abuse Resistance Education.

Anti-drug program, was very popular in the US in the '80's and '90's, where a police officer comes into schools and lectures students on the evils of illegal drugs, usually giving in-depth explanations of street names, appearance, and details of drugs, along with extremely stern warnings to never use them and lots of worst-case scenarios of everything that will go wrong if you ever touch marijuana (or god-forbid, anything harder than that) even once.
 
2013-07-12 10:54:10 AM  

OldManDownDRoad: Boss: "We need someone to fire because I want to hire a crony and we don't have the budget for another person. I know, that suck-up who cleaned the toilet. Fire his ass."

/seen it several times in my working life


So your hypothesis is that bosses, in general, get rid of the most compliant and helpful people first?!?!?

I think I see your problem.
 
2013-07-12 10:56:51 AM  

Silverstaff: steerforth: Girion47: steerforth:

No one on the planet wants to be characterised by their supposed "generation", and fair enough. It is useful for demographers, as Ishkur has eloquently pointed out, but apart from that it means fark all except as an excuse to biatch about others and as a tool for marketers.

Then again, I rang my mother the other day to say happy 64th birthday, and she not only joked about the Beatles song but told me she and her partner had been over to see a similarly aged couple that afternoon, and were subsequently joined by another couple. Apparently they all sat around discussing whether an Australian, British, New Zealand or Canadian pension was more lucrative and which to apply for, all the while smoking doobies, the raw ingredients of whi ...

meanwhile they pushed D.A.R.E. down your throat as you were growing up?

D.A.R.E? Dare to be different? Truth or dare?

Drug Abuse Resistance Education.

Anti-drug program, was very popular in the US in the '80's and '90's, where a police officer comes into schools and lectures students on the evils of illegal drugs, usually giving in-depth explanations of street names, appearance, and details of drugs, along with extremely stern warnings to never use them and lots of worst-case scenarios of everything that will go wrong if you ever touch marijuana (or god-forbid, anything harder than that) even once.


Gotcha. No, as far as I can tell D.A.R.E seems to be a purely American piece of bullshiat. My parents just told me not to get caught.
 
2013-07-12 10:57:40 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: meanmutton: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Speaking as a 35-year-old -- don't pretend that we're any less incompetent.

Also, when they were 35, it's not like they weren't in the same positions you are in right now.

When the Boomers were 35, they had little to no student debt, and had likely spent over a decade working for the same company that paid enough so that one breadwinner could raise a nice middle class family out in the suburbs. The generation before them handed them everything, but it was the Boomers who pulled up the ladder behind them.


Hey, I had student debt. I took out a loan to go skiing at Sun Valley for a week.
 
2013-07-12 10:58:05 AM  

SpectroBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

You think cleaning houses will net you more than $45K a year w/ benefits?


A freind of mine is running a maid service and hitting similar numbers. Of course, she's RUNNING it.
 
2013-07-12 11:01:47 AM  

steerforth: Girion47: steerforth:

No one on the planet wants to be characterised by their supposed "generation", and fair enough. It is useful for demographers, as Ishkur has eloquently pointed out, but apart from that it means fark all except as an excuse to biatch about others and as a tool for marketers.

Then again, I rang my mother the other day to say happy 64th birthday, and she not only joked about the Beatles song but told me she and her partner had been over to see a similarly aged couple that afternoon, and were subsequently joined by another couple. Apparently they all sat around discussing whether an Australian, British, New Zealand or Canadian pension was more lucrative and which to apply for, all the while smoking doobies, the raw ingredients of whi ...

meanwhile they pushed D.A.R.E. down your throat as you were growing up?

D.A.R.E? Dare to be different? Truth or dare?


Dare to be stupid
 
2013-07-12 11:08:22 AM  
You have a hyphenated name, you're going places!
 
2013-07-12 11:09:15 AM  

Charlie Freak: Biggest difference I've seen between Xers and millennials at work is that millennials wait to be told and have to be told to do anything. They don't go figure out how to do things very well - about zero creativity and no autodidaction. It's even worse for my kids generation. Holy shiat. Then they expect a cookie any time they come up with something that's been done the same way for 30 years.


THIS. Holy balls, it's at the point where these people (now approaching 30, FFS) can't take a shiat without explicit approval of their plan.
 
2013-07-12 11:09:16 AM  

GRCooper: re: 9/11 being Millenial's Cobain/Lennon. Nah, that wasn't generational. When Lennon died, it didn't effect the Boomer's parents. Ditto Cobain/Xers parents.

My guess is that generational lines have as much to do with your parents as when you're born. I was the eldest child of War Babies and am very GenX in (bad) attitude. Best bud was born a year later, but was the youngest child of Depression kids and he's very Boomer.


Wow, that would throw my youngest cousins way off the level with their peers.  My mom's next to youngest brother waited till he was 40 before having twins, and they are younger than my kids.  That would put them off by a whole generation.  I do see your point since I was born in '76 and lil bro was born in '85, and he struggles to fit in with peers whose parents were born in the late 60's to early 70's.  Our parents were born in '48 and '54.
 
2013-07-12 11:12:33 AM  

WhippingBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.


See in a meritocracy, that would work. In the real world, your boss ignores you and takes credit for your hard work. When he finally retires, the big bosses hire from the outside, since for years all your boss has said about you is how lazy you are and how he's always having to clean up your messes.
 
2013-07-12 11:13:11 AM  
Gen Xers are Millenials who work to keep the world running, while neither receiving nor expecting any reward except continued survival.

Millenials are Gen Xers who decided that working is a sucker's game, when you can instead manipulate and attention whore your way through life, and blame the workers whose rewards they steal for letting them be stolen.
 
2013-07-12 11:17:26 AM  

Silverstaff: Anti-drug program, was very popular in the US in the '80's and '90's, where a police officer comes into schools and lectures students on the evils of illegal drugs, usually giving in-depth explanations of street names, appearance, and details of drugs, along with extremely stern warnings to never use them and lots of worst-case scenarios of everything that will go wrong if you ever touch marijuana (or god-forbid, anything harder than that) even once.


The DARE program has been proven to be a disaster. Now that they have looked at the results years later DARE kids are MORE likely to use drugs.

It's almost like a cop lying to you and saying stupid shiat to you at an early age reduces your respect for the law.
 
2013-07-12 11:19:53 AM  

Private_Citizen: See in a meritocracy, that would work. In the real world, your boss ignores you and takes credit for your hard work. When he finally retires, the big bosses hire from the outside, since for years all your boss has said about you is how lazy you are and how he's always having to clean up your messes.


So are you saying your boss purposely went out of his way to hurt the most cooperative and helpful employee or that he did that to all his reports?

If the former, he is an exception. Most bosses know to keep their most helpful people around even if they plan on stealing the credit.

If the latter, no harm. Your peers are no better off.

/ Sounds more like you have crafted an excuse not to work too hard to me.
 
2013-07-12 11:21:37 AM  

Private_Citizen: WhippingBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.

See in a meritocracy, that would work. In the real world, your boss ignores you and takes credit for your hard work. When he finally retires, the big bosses hire from the outside, since for years all your boss has said about you is how lazy you are and how he's always having to clean up your messes.


This.
And when the big boss hires the replacement boss, he hires the young up and coming who starts out near your pay so he doesn't have to give you a raise.  Which means for the next few years, you have to train him to catch up.  Behind your back he rattles on about your 'bad attitude' and looks to fire you in spite of your 'bank of knowledge'.

Did I miss anything?
 
2013-07-12 11:24:59 AM  

SpectroBoy: Private_Citizen: See in a meritocracy, that would work. In the real world, your boss ignores you and takes credit for your hard work. When he finally retires, the big bosses hire from the outside, since for years all your boss has said about you is how lazy you are and how he's always having to clean up your messes.

So are you saying your boss purposely went out of his way to hurt the most cooperative and helpful employee or that he did that to all his reports?

If the former, he is an exception. Most bosses know to keep their most helpful people around even if they plan on stealing the credit.

If the latter, no harm. Your peers are no better off.

/ Sounds more like you have crafted an excuse not to work too hard to me.


I've seen it time and again. Being the "go to guy" will not get you promoted in todays world. Shameless self promotion on the otherhand....

/let me tell you about the dozen patents I've earned for the company and how much those inventions have contributed to the bottomline.
 
2013-07-12 11:27:19 AM  

lack of warmth: Private_Citizen: WhippingBoy: Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.

No one makes big bucks because they have "programming skills". My eight year old son has "programming skills". You want to get ahead at work? Whenever some issue, problem, or otherwise unpleasant situation comes up, just say "I'll do it!"

Observe:

Boss: "We need someone to fly to Korea tomorrow (Dec 23) and debug a problem one of our customers is having"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "The developer who wrote this application just quit, and we need someone to take responsibility for his garbled spaghetti code"
You: "I'll do it!"

Boss: "Someone clogged the office toilet with a toxic dump and it needs to be unclogged"
You: "I'll do it!"

That's it. That's all you need to do.

See in a meritocracy, that would work. In the real world, your boss ignores you and takes credit for your hard work. When he finally retires, the big bosses hire from the outside, since for years all your boss has said about you is how lazy you are and how he's always having to clean up your messes.

This.
And when the big boss hires the replacement boss, he hires the young up and coming who starts out near your pay so he doesn't have to give you a raise.  Which means for the next few years, you have to train him to catch up.  Behind your back he rattles on about your 'bad attitude' and looks to fire you in spite of your 'bank of knowledge'.

Did I miss anything?


Nope. Unlike spectroboy, who completely missed the point, you definitely hit the target.
 
2013-07-12 11:44:08 AM  
Graffito: I work for a small software company in northeast Ohio.  Management here makes lots of mistakes as do we all.  What surprises me is people in this thread who discount the cost to the employer of employee mistakes.  I am generally grateful for the opportunity to take on more complex assignments.  I know that if we don't at least break even it could mean layoffs so while I'm thrashing around trying to figure out how to make something work the last thing on my mind is how much I am getting paid.   If we make a profit, I'll be remembered at bonus time.

Yeah, I remember those days fondly.  I work for big corporate America.  There are so many layers of management with overlapping responsibility that nobody can figure out who's really in charge of what.  When things go wrong, there isn't any clear direction where to correctly lay blame.  Likewise, if you take on a next to impossible task and perform brilliantly, no one will notice, or worse, someone else will get the credit.  As just another cog in the wheel, I have very little control over whether the division meets or does not meet its numbers.  I can be laid off tomorrow over something I know nothing about because somebody 3000 miles away screwed something up.  Similarly, we might get donuts or a similar atta-boy because of a major win I had nothing to do with.  They used to give us bonuses back in the day but eventually figured out there's really no need to do that.
 
2013-07-12 11:51:12 AM  
I'm GenX. People say we're apathetic but I don't really care.

My not-so-CSB: I watched my father work for a big company that was loyal to him, fostered his growth and development so he could be a greater asset to the corporation, paid a nice pension and extended benefits to his wife when he died. He was loyal to the company and the company was loyal to him. He's part of what I guess you'd call the Greatest Generation.

My baby-boomer sister saw this and got her degree and went to work for the same company. After about 15-20 years they pulled everyone's pension to pay for some CEO's golden parachute, and had the nerve to act surprised when everyone quit, giving them the finger when they left.

I saw what happened to my sister, and it only took one company doing that to me that I realized the only company I need to work for is Torchsong, Inc. (and its subsidiary, Mrs. Torchsong). To be honest, I'm surprised/ashamed I had to have one company do it to me before I realized it. 

I'm GenX, and I've been gainfully employed since leaving college, but make no mistake, my employer. You will get my best work while I'm here*, but I am not loyal to you, your mission statement, or furthering your goals, because deep down I know you feel the same way about me. As long as we both understand and accept this, I think we'll get along great.

*Yes, savor the irony I'm typing this on the job (Hey, we do get breaks, y'know! :) )
 
2013-07-12 11:51:56 AM  

Silverstaff: These "generation" distinctions are a little artificial.

I was born in 1978.  A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X.  The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

The thing is, I have little in common with Gen X.  I never knew who Kurt Cobain was at the time, and for quite a while when other kids were talking about Nirvana in school I thought Buddhism was a fad.  I never listened to grunge music, and I was sheltered enough from a lot of pop culture as a kid I didn't have many of the same cultural touchstones of Gen X (aside from watching the fall of communism, the destruction of Challenger, the Gulf War, ect).

On the other hand, whenever I read about Millennials, I read it and think "that's me".  Grew up around the rise of the PC and the internet, had a devil of a time even finding a job when I went into the workforce, part of a generation which was told from childhood that a college education is self-justifying and to just go and you'll be able to pay for those student loans later. . .

. . .but authors and demographers and such keep wanting to call me a Generation X'er because I was born in '78,


I have the same problem. I was born in 1961 so theoretically Im a boomer but my parents are boomers and I was mostly left home to raise myself while they got divorced and "did their thing." I fit much in much better with the Gen Xers. But really I dont have an official generation. John Lennon dying surprised - but did not define me. Couldnt care less about Cobain. Dumbledore? Really?

Anyways yeah. I definitely prefer to work for myself and don't watch TV.  I do play lots of video games with my genx hubby though.
 
2013-07-12 12:12:29 PM  
Basically the Boomers have gone to the party, banged all the women, drank all the booze, and smoked all the weed.  We Gen-X'rs are now at the party with used condoms to pick up, bottles and cans to throw away, with not even a roach left in an ashtray to enjoy.  I have seen boomers with union jobs vote to screw everyone after them with pay and benefits, all for a $2500 check from management.  The boomers have allowed corporations to turn the pension they receive into a 401K with some contribution and now the classic 401K with no contribition which is now the new normal.  They came home to mom's apple pie, we came home to no mom or dad until dinner.  My father the boomer went to work at 18.  I went to work at 13.  My millenial son went to work at 17.  I have been working my ass off almost my whole life.  My father has a high school education and is currently on a criuse to Italy and Spain. He retired at 62 because he worked for a European company that actually treats a person like a human being.  On the other hand I will work until I die because I work for a large American company that has cut benefits with no regret.  I also blame boomers for making up the bulk of the conservative tea bagger population that has stalled the progress of the country by their selfishness and disregard for anyone who disagrees with their dated and blatantly racist rhetoric.  They are afraid Obama's gonna take their shiat away from them.  He should.  They have done a poor job of leaving us the way their parents left them.  They have pisssed it away on themselves and I will not shed a tear as they begin to die off.
 
2013-07-12 12:17:32 PM  

dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.


I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
www.newgeography.com

In case you missed it, Gen X is the gap that's been ignored.

We're going to have to suffer Boomers in the workplace a long time, if they ever retire.

www.census.gov
 
2013-07-12 12:31:23 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]

In case you missed it, Gen X is the gap that's been ignored.

We're going to have to suffer Boomers in the workplace a long time, if they ever retire.

[www.census.gov image 585x438]


Fark man. Apparently being born in 1981 qualifies me with the shiatheads of the Millenial Generation.  And that sickens me. My grandfather instilled values in me of "if you work hard, you reap that reward. But cautiously watch the work." Meaning, don't blindly work hard, work towards a goal and make sure you communicate with the people above you to make that goal known.

I currently work as a retail manager. And store manager is my first and foremost job. But I'm actively pursuing other work within the company in my excess time. And it's paying off in boatloads as my development is being accelerated by two other managers above me who are jockeying for which path of advancement for me to go down.

Comparatively to my colleagues of the same generation, I have to agree with some peoples sentiments that they need a cookie for putting on the right color pants for work. I just have to SMH at the lack of enthusiasm these people have and they're distinct lack of drive. Maybe it's just the way I was raised, I dunno.
 
2013-07-12 12:41:32 PM  

smackdab: Basically the Boomers have gone to the party, banged all the women, drank all the booze, and smoked all the weed.  We Gen-X'rs are now at the party with used condoms to pick up, bottles and cans to throw away, with not even a roach left in an ashtray to enjoy.  I have seen boomers with union jobs vote to screw everyone after them with pay and benefits, all for a $2500 check from management.  The boomers have allowed corporations to turn the pension they receive into a 401K with some contribution and now the classic 401K with no contribition which is now the new normal.  They came home to mom's apple pie, we came home to no mom or dad until dinner.  My father the boomer went to work at 18.  I went to work at 13.  My millenial son went to work at 17.  I have been working my ass off almost my whole life.  My father has a high school education and is currently on a criuse to Italy and Spain. He retired at 62 because he worked for a European company that actually treats a person like a human being.  On the other hand I will work until I die because I work for a large American company that has cut benefits with no regret.  I also blame boomers for making up the bulk of the conservative tea bagger population that has stalled the progress of the country by their selfishness and disregard for anyone who disagrees with their dated and blatantly racist rhetoric.  They are afraid Obama's gonna take their shiat away from them.  He should.  They have done a poor job of leaving us the way their parents left them.  They have pisssed it away on themselves and I will not shed a tear as they begin to die off.


Woo hoo, hear! hear!

The Boomers are/were a resource suck that are the ultimate in selfishness and apathy. The care about no one but themselves.

You'd think they would have grown out of it. I mean, really, they're 'adults' now.
 
2013-07-12 12:47:40 PM  

Franko: HO-LEE-CRAP, I'm not alone.

13 years of programming skills: only $45k jobs out there
project management certification: everyone wants at least 10 yrs experience.

I'm seriously on the verge of dropping everything and just cleaning houses for a living.



Something is missing from your story. 13 years of experience programming should yield 60-70k minimum, whether you're talking compiled applications, client-side programming, or server-side web applications. Even if you're talking about a market saturated by boot-camp graduates with no real-world experience like H1B MCSEs.

When you say programming skills, do you mean "doing Internet, like making webpages" or actual programming? What market are you looking in? Maybe your resume could do with some polishing, especially if you've got PMP. Perhaps you should consider a QA Analyst track to get in the door if you're a programmer with PMP certification.
 
2013-07-12 12:59:10 PM  

jayphat: The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]

In case you missed it, Gen X is the gap that's been ignored.

We're going to have to suffer Boomers in the workplace a long time, if they ever retire.

[www.census.gov image 585x438]

Fark man. Apparently being born in 1981 qualifies me with the shiatheads of the Millenial Generation.  And that sickens me. My grandfather instilled values in me of "if you work hard, you reap that reward. But cautiously watch the work." Meaning, don't blindly work hard, work towards a goal and make sure you communicate with the people above you to make that goal known.

I currently work as a retail manager. And store manager is my first and foremost job. But I'm actively pursuing other work within the company in my excess time. And it's paying off in boatloads as my development is being accelerated by two other managers above me who are jockeying for which path of advancement for me to go down.

Comparatively to my colleagues of the same generation, I have to agree with some peoples sentiments that they need a cookie for putting on the right color pants for work. I just have to SMH at the lack of enthusiasm these people have and they're distinct lack of drive. Maybe it's just the way I was raised, I dunno.


Why work hard for a job that doesn't matter(retail)?

Seriously, the company views you as a number, you can be cut easily, you receive all the customer abuse, your tasks are menial and boring, and excelling does jack shiat for you or the company.

Not to mention the pay is insultingly low.
 
2013-07-12 01:12:02 PM  

jayphat: The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]

In case you missed it, Gen X is the gap that's been ignored.

We're going to have to suffer Boomers in the workplace a long time, if they ever retire.

[www.census.gov image 585x438]

Fark man. Apparently being born in 1981 qualifies me with the shiatheads of the Millenial Generation.  And that sickens me. My grandfather instilled values in me of "if you work hard, you reap that reward. But cautiously watch the work." Meaning, don't blindly work hard, work towards a goal and make sure you communicate with the people above you to make that goal known.

I currently work as a retail manager. And store manager is my first and foremost job. But I'm actively pursuing other work within the company in my excess time. And it's paying off in boatloads as my development is being accelerated by two other managers above me who are jockeying for which path of advancement for me to go down.

Comparatively to my colleagues of the same generation, I have to agree with some peoples sentiments that they need a cookie for putting on the right color pants for work. I just have to SMH at the lack of enthusiasm these people have and they're distinct lack of drive. Maybe it's just the way I was raised, I dunno.



1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-12 01:36:15 PM  
Someone needs to start killing off Baby Boomers.
 
2013-07-12 01:39:04 PM  

furiousidiot: Someone needs to start killing off Baby Boomers.


What the hell do you think Obama created the Death Panels for?
 
2013-07-12 01:46:21 PM  

furiousidiot: Someone needs to start killing off Baby Boomers.


Dude, when you start, remember I said upthread that "We suck."

/should get credit for that
 
2013-07-12 01:47:22 PM  
I suppose that that I am a Millenial, I was born in 86.

The more I think about my office experiences with the older crowds, the more I've felt that the X'ers were far less friendly/ socialable, but knew what to do in most every situation, and direct accordingly. The boomers are all incredibly nice but hold about as much usefulness as breast-plate nipples, but thye happen to be in charge.

Most of the 65+ year olds still working seem like they're just chasing the dragon man, and they aint ever gonna catch it. And the more I hang out in the office environment, the more I resent them and the just awful descisions/ "pulling up the ladder" that they commit. Very nasty business, really. But this is Fark, and we're all just shaking tiny, digital fists.

Now, the gen thats coming up, the one after millenials, (what are they called?), *ooooph* Thats gonna be rough. Trophies for handing in your work on time!
 
2013-07-12 01:47:43 PM  

Doc Daneeka: furiousidiot: Someone needs to start killing off Baby Boomers.

What the hell do you think Obama created the Death Panels for?


Exactly. You have to plan it correctly or you don't get the optimal return on investment vis a vis life insurance policies being null and void if you murder the farkers.
 
2013-07-12 01:49:05 PM  

trickymoo: I suppose that that I am a Millenial, I was born in 86.

The more I think about my office experiences with the older crowds, the more I've felt that the X'ers were far less friendly/ socialable, but knew what to do in most every situation, and direct accordingly. The boomers are all incredibly nice but hold about as much usefulness as breast-plate nipples, but thye happen to be in charge.

Most of the 65+ year olds still working seem like they're just chasing the dragon man, and they aint ever gonna catch it. And the more I hang out in the office environment, the more I resent them and the just awful descisions/ "pulling up the ladder" that they commit. Very nasty business, really. But this is Fark, and we're all just shaking tiny, digital fists.

Now, the gen thats coming up, the one after millenials, (what are they called?), *ooooph* Thats gonna be rough. Trophies for handing in your work on time!


Yeah, we're gonna have to kill you farkers too.
 
2013-07-12 01:53:27 PM  

steerforth: trickymoo: I suppose that that I am a Millenial, I was born in 86.

The more I think about my office experiences with the older crowds, the more I've felt that the X'ers were far less friendly/ socialable, but knew what to do in most every situation, and direct accordingly. The boomers are all incredibly nice but hold about as much usefulness as breast-plate nipples, but thye happen to be in charge.

Most of the 65+ year olds still working seem like they're just chasing the dragon man, and they aint ever gonna catch it. And the more I hang out in the office environment, the more I resent them and the just awful descisions/ "pulling up the ladder" that they commit. Very nasty business, really. But this is Fark, and we're all just shaking tiny, digital fists.

Now, the gen thats coming up, the one after millenials, (what are they called?), *ooooph* Thats gonna be rough. Trophies for handing in your work on time!

Yeah, we're gonna have to kill you farkers too.


Hah!

It's because we're just not SO faded yet? :-D
 
2013-07-12 01:56:06 PM  

quickdraw: I have the same problem. I was born in 1961 so theoretically Im a boomer but my parents are boomers


Your parents had you when they were sixteen? If so, then yes, your experience was atypical from most other children born in 1961.
 
2013-07-12 01:58:58 PM  
I'm now 13 years into my career, after graduating, as a programmer, into the .com bust. Through those 13 years, I've been given a single promotion, and I'm pretty sure that was a carrot to try to keep me from quitting... didn't work.

That said, I've still gotten ahead by getting those promotions by jumping companies instead. I don't, for a second, understand gen-X folks and younger that stay at a company for 5 to 10 years at a time. Loyalty is for suckers - the bosses I've had that seemed like the nicest guys in the world, everyone's best friend, have always turned into a repulsive jerk the moment I'd turn in my notice. Real Jekyll & Hyde shiat. Don't be fooled for a second that your best-buddy boss won't get rid of you to save himself.
 
2013-07-12 02:05:12 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: I'm now 13 years into my career, after graduating, as a programmer, into the .com bust. Through those 13 years, I've been given a single promotion, and I'm pretty sure that was a carrot to try to keep me from quitting... didn't work.

That said, I've still gotten ahead by getting those promotions by jumping companies instead. I don't, for a second, understand gen-X folks and younger that stay at a company for 5 to 10 years at a time. Loyalty is for suckers - the bosses I've had that seemed like the nicest guys in the world, everyone's best friend, have always turned into a repulsive jerk the moment I'd turn in my notice. Real Jekyll & Hyde shiat. Don't be fooled for a second that your best-buddy boss won't get rid of you to save himself.


THIS!

I've had to jump jobs 3 times in 6 years.  First jump was because the contract I was working ended and they didn't have follow-up work.  I'll give them credit that they kept me as an employee so I could get the benefits and not say "unemployed" on applications.   2nd Jump was because the previous company called me with an offer for a significant raise and a much safer job, 3rd jump was the hardest.   I didn't want to leave my first company but I was tired of living in the DC area(all because of the people in the area, you're all shiatheads that deserve a foul death) but I found a place willing to let me work from home wherever I wanted to live, so I took it and moved to Louisville, KY, an awesomely cheap city with great night life.    Now I'm looking to jump again as it turns out my corporate overlords were just milking my current contract for as much as they could get and didn't plan on any followup work once the contract expired.
 
2013-07-12 02:20:47 PM  

smackdab: Basically the Boomers have gone to the party, banged all the women, drank all the booze, and smoked all the weed.  We Gen-X'rs are now at the party with used condoms to pick up, bottles and cans to throw away, with not even a roach left in an ashtray to enjoy.  I have seen boomers with union jobs vote to screw everyone after them with pay and benefits, all for a $2500 check from management.  The boomers have allowed corporations to turn the pension they receive into a 401K with some contribution and now the classic 401K with no contribition which is now the new normal.  They came home to mom's apple pie, we came home to no mom or dad until dinner.  My father the boomer went to work at 18.  I went to work at 13.  My millenial son went to work at 17.  I have been working my ass off almost my whole life.  My father has a high school education and is currently on a criuse to Italy and Spain. He retired at 62 because he worked for a European company that actually treats a person like a human being.  On the other hand I will work until I die because I work for a large American company that has cut benefits with no regret.  I also blame boomers for making up the bulk of the conservative tea bagger population that has stalled the progress of the country by their selfishness and disregard for anyone who disagrees with their dated and blatantly racist rhetoric.  They are afraid Obama's gonna take their shiat away from them.  He should.  They have done a poor job of leaving us the way their parents left them.  They have pisssed it away on themselves and I will not shed a tear as they begin to die off.



I'm a GenX-er and I started working at age 9. I operated the sand valve for $1 an hour while my dad sandblasted. He had a ninth-grade education and would come home every night with bloodshot eyes, coughing up silica sand. He was self-employed and couldn't afford health insurance for his family.

He told me how important it was to get an education so I wouldn't have to do what he did for a living. So I got one, and I don't do that for a living. I thank him for giving me the drive to succeed in getting out of that lifestyle rather than pissing and moaning about how hard life is.

Do you have any idea what a self-entitled whiner you sound like?
 
2013-07-12 02:26:27 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: I'm now 13 years into my career, after graduating, as a programmer, into the .com bust. Through those 13 years, I've been given a single promotion, and I'm pretty sure that was a carrot to try to keep me from quitting... didn't work.

That said, I've still gotten ahead by getting those promotions by jumping companies instead. I don't, for a second, understand gen-X folks and younger that stay at a company for 5 to 10 years at a time. Loyalty is for suckers - the bosses I've had that seemed like the nicest guys in the world, everyone's best friend, have always turned into a repulsive jerk the moment I'd turn in my notice. Real Jekyll & Hyde shiat. Don't be fooled for a second that your best-buddy boss won't get rid of you to save himself.


Then they complain to their boss that kids these days have no company loyalty. Company loyalty must be bought. A job could be crap, but short hours and big pay can make it tolerable; a job could be fun and easy, but if it doesn't pay the bills you have to move on.
 
2013-07-12 02:28:01 PM  
I learned my lesson.  Stay out of debt, the hard times are even harder when you have debt.

I suspect I may be able to stay in an IT Development job until my mid 50's (I'm 41).  This is because I am very good at what I do and do not care being paid under the median rate for my experience.   All I care about is keeping a job and paying off my debt.

Once I am debt free and have some decent savings (about 8 years) I will be able to scale down even more on my lifestyle.  I suspect I will not be employed from ~ 55-62 due to age discrimination, so I need to be able to live for 7 years off my savings before social security.   That leaves me 14 years to get my act together.

/cynical, yeah sure, so would you be if you worked in IT
 
2013-07-12 02:29:49 PM  

mbillips: Generational groupings are the stupidest possible way to categorize people. I was born in '62; what do I have in common with someone born in '45 (other than remembering cars without seatbelts)? Gen X is supposedly '65 to '79? So if you were 21 in 2000, you were a peer of someone who was 35? No.


Same here.  Given the speed of technological and culture change I think we need to cut up generations into 10-year chunks.

My brother and I are 5 years apart. While I remember life before the internet, computers, and cell phones (1986) my baby brother born in 1990 does not, he barely remembers dial-up and pagers.

I also got very lucky. I got a decent job right out of High School before the real estate and credit bubble burst so I got a leg up on my younger brothers and peers.
 
2013-07-12 03:13:32 PM  

fatbear: crappie: Farkbert: I don't know....I managed to do fairly well, but doing so meant:

1.) Busting my ass non stop.  (hint: if you've never worked 60-80 hour weeks for a couple years straight you haven't busted ass yet)
2.) Taking every opportunity to get ahead, including many job changes and joining 4 different early stage startups.
3.) Changing industries several times in order to be where the best opportunities are.
4.) Proving my worth again and again, but also always demanding compensation that is in line with my contributions.  I walked out of a job once because management lied about potential future stock options that never had any chance of happening.

/ in the end, they brought me back in with an agreement to pay me commissions on products sold, which was a very nice deal
// I quit 6 months later to go to a new startup, which in the end was a much better deal

That's called luck....don't confuse it with work.

You think he would have picked up the position at the startup without that work and experience? You think they hand those jobs out to any slacker with a pulse?

Keep investing in powerball tickets, dude.


I didn't say he didn't work hard but yeah that's luck.
 
2013-07-12 03:19:50 PM  

Peki: Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook

This.


All that.
 
2013-07-12 03:33:42 PM  

Peki: Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook

This.


Wow.  You guys sound like real go-getters.
 
2013-07-12 03:34:15 PM  

lack of warmth: Girion47: WhippingBoy: Girion47: My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"

You: "You give me what I want, or I'll make the chopper noises again, dad!"
Dad: "No... no!!! Anything but that... of course you can have what you want... we're still buddies, right?"

More like

Dad:  You follow me around and pick up any speck of dirt I point out on the carpet or I'll throw more dishes at you or throw you down the steps again.
Me:  ......ok sir.

I got the same thing without that level of violence.  Mostly a lot of yelling and some mild form of violence.  He is a Vietnam era Army vet., didn't see combat.  It must have something to do with the training.  A few times I did get:
Dad: Did you take care of what I asked you to do?
Me: What?
then yelling, because he had told me to do something while I slept and I was suppose to remember to do it.  Somehow writing a note was too much for him.  When he wasn't yelling, it was lets go play a sport.

/only good moment was when my lil bro (9 yrs my jr) called me spoiled, dad ripped him good.
//I was too busy laughing at my bro to be mad.


I think we had the same dad...
 
2013-07-12 03:41:51 PM  

Torchsong: I'm GenX. People say we're apathetic but I don't really care.

My not-so-CSB: I watched my father work for a big company that was loyal to him, fostered his growth and development so he could be a greater asset to the corporation, paid a nice pension and extended benefits to his wife when he died. He was loyal to the company and the company was loyal to him. He's part of what I guess you'd call the Greatest Generation.

My baby-boomer sister saw this and got her degree and went to work for the same company. After about 15-20 years they pulled everyone's pension to pay for some CEO's golden parachute, and had the nerve to act surprised when everyone quit, giving them the finger when they left.

I saw what happened to my sister, and it only took one company doing that to me that I realized the only company I need to work for is Torchsong, Inc. (and its subsidiary, Mrs. Torchsong). To be honest, I'm surprised/ashamed I had to have one company do it to me before I realized it.

I'm GenX, and I've been gainfully employed since leaving college, but make no mistake, my employer. You will get my best work while I'm here*, but I am not loyal to you, your mission statement, or furthering your goals, because deep down I know you feel the same way about me. As long as we both understand and accept this, I think we'll get along great.

*Yes, savor the irony I'm typing this on the job (Hey, we do get breaks, y'know! :) )



I like the cut of your jib, old boy.
i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-12 03:45:57 PM  
It's Friday people and everyone in here is so pissy.  Chill the fark out and stop biatching about what you didn't get or don't have.  In 100 years, you will be gone and no one will give two shiats about this or any generations percieved problems.
 
2013-07-12 03:46:07 PM  

smackdab: Basically the Boomers have gone to the party, banged all the women, drank all the booze, and smoked all the weed.  We Gen-X'rs are now at the party with used condoms to pick up, bottles and cans to throw away, with not even a roach left in an ashtray to enjoy.  I have seen boomers with union jobs vote to screw everyone after them with pay and benefits, all for a $2500 check from management.  The boomers have allowed corporations to turn the pension they receive into a 401K with some contribution and now the classic 401K with no contribition which is now the new normal.  They came home to mom's apple pie, we came home to no mom or dad until dinner.  My father the boomer went to work at 18.  I went to work at 13.  My millenial son went to work at 17.  I have been working my ass off almost my whole life.  My father has a high school education and is currently on a criuse to Italy and Spain. He retired at 62 because he worked for a European company that actually treats a person like a human being.  On the other hand I will work until I die because I work for a large American company that has cut benefits with no regret.  I also blame boomers for making up the bulk of the conservative tea bagger population that has stalled the progress of the country by their selfishness and disregard for anyone who disagrees with their dated and blatantly racist rhetoric.  They are afraid Obama's gonna take their shiat away from them.  He should.  They have done a poor job of leaving us the way their parents left them.  They have pisssed it away on themselves and I will not shed a tear as they begin to die off.


And to think some people have the nerve to say that Gen-X'rs are whiny and petulant.
 
2013-07-12 03:52:38 PM  

Girion47: WhippingBoy: Girion47: My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"

You: "You give me what I want, or I'll make the chopper noises again, dad!"
Dad: "No... no!!! Anything but that... of course you can have what you want... we're still buddies, right?"

More like

Dad:  You follow me around and pick up any speck of dirt I point out on the carpet or I'll throw more dishes at you or throw you down the steps again.
Me:  ......ok sir.


Sounds like my Dad as well.

Me: "Why don't you just vacuum?"
Dad: "Shut up and do as I say, I'm the man of the house!"
 
2013-07-12 03:55:36 PM  

crappie: lack of warmth: Girion47: WhippingBoy: Girion47: My dad was a marine Vietnam vet with severe PTSD and 2 purple hearts.

Please tell me how he wasn't a taskmaster and my "buddy"

You: "You give me what I want, or I'll make the chopper noises again, dad!"
Dad: "No... no!!! Anything but that... of course you can have what you want... we're still buddies, right?"

More like

Dad:  You follow me around and pick up any speck of dirt I point out on the carpet or I'll throw more dishes at you or throw you down the steps again.
Me:  ......ok sir.

I got the same thing without that level of violence.  Mostly a lot of yelling and some mild form of violence.  He is a Vietnam era Army vet., didn't see combat.  It must have something to do with the training.  A few times I did get:
Dad: Did you take care of what I asked you to do?
Me: What?
then yelling, because he had told me to do something while I slept and I was suppose to remember to do it.  Somehow writing a note was too much for him.  When he wasn't yelling, it was lets go play a sport.

/only good moment was when my lil bro (9 yrs my jr) called me spoiled, dad ripped him good.
//I was too busy laughing at my bro to be mad.

I think we had the same dad...


I think we all did.

My Dad was a Veitnam Vet who never saw action either.

Was Grandpa an Alcoholic and Grandma didn't pay enough attention to him?
 
2013-07-12 04:00:47 PM  
Yeah so I'm whining a little.  Wait until the boomers get really old.  They will use up every bag of blood and syringe we can donate or produce due to their sheer numbers.  Then we will all be whining as we have to take care of those who left us with nothing.
 
2013-07-12 04:06:30 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]


What's interesting to me is that based on that chart I see a different group of divisions:
Boomers, currently ages 48-67 (I added three years to the 2010 ages)
Gen X, currently ages 36-48
??? generation, currently ages 26-36
Millennials, currently ages 16-26
Fate yet undetermined, currently ages 0-16

All the people I can think of that are really disillusioned with their jobs/careers, even if they've been successful, are 36 to 48. The millennials are the ones who got truly screwed by the recession, and have the helicopter parents/trophies/etc. I do think there's a case for an in-between generation that hasn't been well studied or marketed to.
 
2013-07-12 04:12:33 PM  

Phinn: The cover copy for book X Saves the World by Jeff Gordinier says this: "In this simultaneously hilarious and incisive manifesto for a generation that's never had much use for manifestos, ..."

Hey, wait, I'm a Gen-Xer, and I love a good manifesto!



He said "use", by which he most likely did not mean "appreciation of literature"

/with ya, though, manifestos are very entertaining
 
2013-07-12 04:17:19 PM  

trickymoo: Now, the gen thats coming up, the one after millenials, (what are they called?), *ooooph* Thats gonna be rough. Trophies for handing in your work on time!


I thought they were called "Emo Kids". Do they have an official name yet?
There is one in my house. They are OK, remind me of Mods a bit. Not the moderator kind of mods.
 
2013-07-12 04:31:19 PM  

mesmer242: The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]

What's interesting to me is that based on that chart I see a different group of divisions:
Boomers, currently ages 48-67 (I added three years to the 2010 ages)
Gen X, currently ages 36-48
??? generation, currently ages 26-36
Millennials, currently ages 16-26
Fate yet undetermined, currently ages 0-16

All the people I can think of that are really disillusioned with their jobs/careers, even if they've been successful, are 36 to 48. The millennials are the ones who got truly screwed by the recession, and have the helicopter parents/trophies/etc. I do think there's a case for an in-between generation that hasn't been well studied or marketed to.


I'm 28 and think of myself as firmly Millenial, bolded criteria included.
 
2013-07-12 04:32:36 PM  
A generation, by definition, is 20 years.
 
2013-07-12 04:32:54 PM  

cloud_van_dame: Phinn: The cover copy for book X Saves the World by Jeff Gordinier says this: "In this simultaneously hilarious and incisive manifesto for a generation that's never had much use for manifestos, ..."

Hey, wait, I'm a Gen-Xer, and I love a good manifesto!

He said "use", by which he most likely did not mean "appreciation of literature"

/with ya, though, manifestos are very entertaining



I know, right?  Especially the preambles.  The middle parts can be long-winded, of course, but they usually start off with a real bang.  There's nothing like a total crackpot when he's laying out his declaration of principles.
 
2013-07-12 04:46:23 PM  
I'll play along.

Born in 74. Dad died due to complications from Agent Orange when I was 11.
My sister, born in 69, escaped as soon as she could.
It was me and my mom for most of my life.
   A fat kid, mostly due to steroids and my own "Son of Agent Orange" complications (plus being a young kid with a dead dad and a hardworking 2-job Mom, I turned to food, television, and later video games)
   I got my own house key as a gift when I was 9, like it was a big deal (it was, I could stay home alone) little did I know that i was a latch key kid and that because dad was in the hospital for what seemed most of my life I would only see my Mom for an hour or so a night.
 
2013-07-12 05:02:21 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: mesmer242: The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]

What's interesting to me is that based on that chart I see a different group of divisions:
Boomers, currently ages 48-67 (I added three years to the 2010 ages)
Gen X, currently ages 36-48
??? generation, currently ages 26-36
Millennials, currently ages 16-26
Fate yet undetermined, currently ages 0-16

All the people I can think of that are really disillusioned with their jobs/careers, even if they've been successful, are 36 to 48. The millennials are the ones who got truly screwed by the recession, and have the helicopter parents/trophies/etc. I do think there's a case for an in-between generation that hasn't been well studied or marketed to.

I'm 28 and think of myself as firmly Millenial, bolded criteria included.


Really? Everybody I know in the 26+ age range is sort of stunned by the results of helicopter derp they're seeing in the just-younger set. I also don't know anyone in that age range who's been chronically unemployed - underemployed, yes, and with a lot of turmoil, yes, but able to work things out well enough to survive. Anyway, I was looking at where the troughs were in the graph, and it seems to me that there's a trough in the middle of the millenials that corresponds to what I've seen in real life.
 
2013-07-12 05:42:51 PM  
Yep pretty much.
Gen X and proud of it.  Going back to get my Masters.  Own my own business, AND work at a start up.

I say this to you X'ers..if you can afford it at all...get the MBA. Why?  Aside from it helping you to run your own business, and understand when someone is trying to screw you if you work for them, but  also because H1B Visas will be back with a vengeance if immigration reform passes.

When company's say, "We can't find anyone qualified to do the job."  What they REALLY mean is, "We can't find someone qualified who will work for 30k / year and be on call 24x7".  With the H1b visa, VOILA! Problem solved.  No more messing with silly international time zones...no more dealing with some foreign country's crappy infrastructure...nope..now you can can build your tech shantytown right next to the factory! And remember kids, if they complain, you can always send 'em back!! Or, bonus points if you threaten them with ......GITMO!  They're not 'Merkins, so  you can do what you want! Wheee!!
 
2013-07-12 06:12:13 PM  

Generation_D: FLMountainMan: I guess I lucked out.  36 years old, executive position in my organization.  Of the 22 other people who have my job across the state, I'm the youngest, but 6 are retiring in the next five years.  Three retired this past year and 40-50yr olds filled all the vacancies.  Of course, I work in government, so more people are are able to retire than in the private sector.

I actually think Gen X is pretty set, demographically speaking.  The boomers can't live forever.

Yes and no.

As a few have pointed out in this thread, when Boomers retire the job sometimes goes away through attrition/defunding, or the job gets handed *woosh* over our heads and down to someone who's 30 or younger.

A lot of Gen X'ers are or soon will be facing this fun fact: After years of biding our time, the Millenials won't want us around. Don't want that icky old age to rub off on them. Only problem is we still have a good 20 years left in our career life span. The boomers and their kids will fark us one last time.

On the other hand a disproportionate number of us went from things like starting zines and bands in the 80s to starting dot coms in the 1990s and 2000's.. and/or were ground floor or early adopter on a whole bunch of these fun technologies you now use daily without knowing much about them, like TCP/IP and BGP... Anyone who started a career as a techie in the 1990s has loads of options now, many of them quite good indeed.. So we know how to make things, build things,always have. We'll be fine.

Ageism is a thing though. I can't get past how it suddenly is to be considered OLD looking by people out in the neighborhood or on the job. Not age 30 old, but age 50 old. The one you can't recover from. The one that says gtfo pops you don't know anything. Using technologies and environments that my peers and I helped build.

Thats a very wordy "Get off my lawn."


Oh please.

Most, if not all, ageism in this society is perpetrated by old people against the young.  It is laughable to see any old person talk about ageism.
 
2013-07-12 06:17:54 PM  

mesmer242: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: mesmer242: The Irresponsible Captain: dready zim: The boomers decided nobody could ever suffer like them so they engineered a world of hurt for their descendents. Gen X was the testbed for pretty mech every failed education policy, work scheme and housing policy and we bore the brunt of them. We have lived in a world of constant change and disruption. We were spawned in a recession and now we are back in familiar ground.

You are all farked.

We have come home.

I like that!

Gen X, as viewed by everybody:
[www.newgeography.com image 453x344]

What's interesting to me is that based on that chart I see a different group of divisions:
Boomers, currently ages 48-67 (I added three years to the 2010 ages)
Gen X, currently ages 36-48
??? generation, currently ages 26-36
Millennials, currently ages 16-26
Fate yet undetermined, currently ages 0-16

All the people I can think of that are really disillusioned with their jobs/careers, even if they've been successful, are 36 to 48. The millennials are the ones who got truly screwed by the recession, and have the helicopter parents/trophies/etc. I do think there's a case for an in-between generation that hasn't been well studied or marketed to.

I'm 28 and think of myself as firmly Millenial, bolded criteria included.

Really? Everybody I know in the 26+ age range is sort of stunned by the results of helicopter derp they're seeing in the just-younger set. I also don't know anyone in that age range who's been chronically unemployed - underemployed, yes, and with a lot of turmoil, yes, but able to work things out well enough to survive. Anyway, I was looking at where the troughs were in the graph, and it seems to me that there's a trough in the middle of the millenials that corresponds to what I've seen in real life.


Helicoptering's gotten worse, but it was on its creep upward for our childhoods. We 26+'s are the group now realizing the hard way how worthless our Bachelors are and not doing very well at all.
 
2013-07-12 06:57:25 PM  

Graffito: Peki: Omahawg: every time they want me to do more work I just say "that's cool. now how about some more pay?"

then they don't give me any more work.

so I can sit on fark dispensing wisdom while posting wesley willis songs on facebook

This.

Wow.  You guys sound like real go-getters.


Really? In all three of my last jobs I've been "promoted" after three months. The promotion was all responsibility, no pay. One involved me becoming the export compliance *and* operations planner remotely for a plant in Mexico, all of which involved ITAR compliance. I was being paid as a $7 an hour temp. The one after that I got promoted to an advisory position that assisted over 80 agents in handling various customer service issues, again, as the lowest paid employee in the building (yup, janitor got paid more. I asked).

So fark you. When I've been told all my life that the reason women don't get raises is because they don't ask for them, and then YOU have the nerve to imply laziness or a lack of motivation when I refuse to take on extra work for no pay? Fark you. You be willing to work more for same pay is what causes us all to lose out on raises, because there is always someone who will take less money. STFU and realize you are driving down wages for all of us.
 
2013-07-12 07:08:15 PM  
Am I the only one around here who has consistently got promoted all my life and gotten more money to boot? Even jumping companies to make the transition upwards?
 
2013-07-12 07:29:35 PM  

DougTaupe: 13th Gen ISBN-13: 978-0679743651

A bit outdated now, but was a decent read that put things into perspective.

No Boomers at my workplace, they can't hang.

/<3 My job


You stab your job with a punch dagger?
 
2013-07-12 07:57:52 PM  

TommyymmoT: Cubansaltyballs: In my experience, a lot of Baby Boomers have jobs they should not have and only have them because some other Boomer promoted them. When they see a Gen Xer, they become afraid that some 35 year-old will show the world how incompetent they are.

It's protectionism. The faster this generation dies, the better off we'll all be.

Bide your time, and position yourself.
It's temporary,
They'll be dead, or retired pretty damned soon.


missed the entire point of the article and the problem facing Gen Xers today. Gen Xers are relatively few and sanwiched between two humongous and influential group not to mentioned cultual differences.
When the big shot Boomer retires or make hiring decision he is going to skip over Gen Xer and hire the Millenial because the millenial is more tech savvy than the Gen Xer and he'll work as hard for had the price.
Unlike previous evolution of generational rotations, Gen Xer will be the one that one half step where people will skip.
 
2013-07-12 07:59:03 PM  
and I was apparently drunk and incoherent!
 
2013-07-12 07:59:59 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Ishkur: Silverstaff: I was born in 1978. A few sources would call me a millennial, but most try to call me Generation X. The cutoff date is always put somewhere in the late '70's, usually towards 1980.

Gen-X is typically considered to be born from 64-79 with a peak year of 1971.

Demographics/sociology is about approximations and generalities, not specifics. You as an individual can choose to be anything you like -- either both or nothing. A single statistic is not relevant when plotting overall population trends. There are always going to be outliers, but their presence or existence is rarely pertinent. It's just wayward data.

With that said, the years 78-82 are weird years in that they are the lowest birth rates in the 20th century. There are hardly anybody from those age groups that are around, and whether they fit with the Xers or the Millenials tends to factor in with the age of their families ie: whether they are the youngest (will lean Xer) or the oldest (will lean Millenial) -- or have any siblings at all -- is a huge factor in developing a generation's outlook.

Xers, for what it's worth, tend to be the runts of the family.

Definitions of Gen X that I see generally extend it to birth dates in the early 80s. Then again, the Millennial gen is generally defined as starting in the early 80s. As a 1981 baby, this is the source of my confusion.

I'm often considered too young to really be part of Gen X. But I don't identify with the Millennial generation either. I think of Millennials as people either in college now or recent grads. I've been out of college a decade now.



I was born in 1980 myself, I'm perpetually confused which generation I belong to as well.   But I have heard that sometimes 1980 is the cut off for Gen-X and then again the cut off can be late 70's (around 1975 or 1978) which leaves me and a few other birth years out of a generation because typically the Millenniums don't reach my birth date.   I think  these years as the oddball or weird years because no one wants to claim them LOL (I guess they think we have generational cooties or something).  Anyway, I have also heard people refer to the years 1975 - 1985 as the MTV Generation.  I don't really want this to be what my generation is do you?  It is kind of a lame way to label a generation plus to some extent insulting.
 
2013-07-12 10:04:33 PM  
Bwhahahahahahahahahahahah!

Some reporter was really lazy as this article is about 10 years out of date. This has all ready happened, was happening in the 90's and 00's. I can't tell you the number of Boomer managers I had that whined at us X-ers about company loyalty or complained about the way we changed jobs at the drop of a hat. The real problem for huge corporations is that X-ers did not stick around to eat shiat, now they have to deal with the dregs of X-ers, who are incompetent, for those management jobs that are necessary or replace Boomers with Mellinials, who don't have enough experience. It is corporations that are finally waking up to the fact that the best and brightest of the X-ers are not in their organizational chart and never will be.
 
2013-07-12 10:12:47 PM  

ThatGuyGreg: I'm now 13 years into my career, after graduating, as a programmer, into the .com bust. Through those 13 years, I've been given a single promotion, and I'm pretty sure that was a carrot to try to keep me from quitting... didn't work.

That said, I've still gotten ahead by getting those promotions by jumping companies instead. I don't, for a second, understand gen-X folks and younger that stay at a company for 5 to 10 years at a time. Loyalty is for suckers - the bosses I've had that seemed like the nicest guys in the world, everyone's best friend, have always turned into a repulsive jerk the moment I'd turn in my notice. Real Jekyll & Hyde shiat. Don't be fooled for a second that your best-buddy boss won't get rid of you to save himself.


Well those of us who stay for longer then a couple of years have found a nice fat position. For example I've been with the my company as a Business Systems Analyst for the last 9 years, I've been promoted twice and I'm at the top of the pay band making just under six figures. I've got 20 days vacation, 13 sick days, both bankable, flex time, full dental, medical, and vision. Plus the work is ridiculously easy, so much so that if the benefits were not awesome I'd have moved on from boredom.

These are benefits and pay that most people only dream about, plus I'm being pushed to go into management, but why would I do that? The money is only slightly more, the hours are ridiculous, and the stress is insane. No I'll stay in IT and keep doing this for the next 30 years.
 
2013-07-12 11:21:26 PM  
'Kill them all', I'm a capitalist, born 1974. Grunge killed rock and roll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqw0Gz9GahM
 
2013-07-13 02:02:45 AM  

mesmer242: The millennials are the ones who got truly screwed by the recession


It's your first recession... they always feel that way. Just wait until the next one, you'll see.
 
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