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(Reason Magazine)   NYPD admits what everyone's suspected for years. Sometimes they get bored and just randomly ticket people   (reason.com) divider line 108
    More: Asinine, N.Y.P.D., Center for Constitutional Rights, Jacob Sullum  
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11566 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 10:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



108 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-11 06:35:59 PM  
Since when did NYC become a small town?
 
2013-07-11 08:00:03 PM  
Oh come on now, those people were resisting arrest!
 
2013-07-11 08:12:05 PM  
Philly's "PPA" has them beat.
 
2013-07-11 08:19:17 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com

"disgruntled NYPD office Pedro Serrano. "
 
2013-07-11 08:39:51 PM  

ShawnDoc: Oh come on now, those people were resisting arrest!


FInally, a little more obscure reference to the usual "F*ck tha Police" bit.
 
2013-07-11 08:51:09 PM  
See.  This is why I much prefer the gruntled cops.
 
2013-07-11 10:19:13 PM  
Another example of what it looks like when you put accountants in charge.  Gotta fill out that spreadsheet.
 
2013-07-11 10:21:03 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: [25.media.tumblr.com image 401x508]

"disgruntled NYPD office Pedro Serrano. "


Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum
/Is very bad
 
2013-07-11 10:21:46 PM  

Jeep2011: Since when did NYC become a small town?


Ever since Rudy Giuliani decided that NYC should become the new Disney World for white people. Bloomberg is just continuing the bad ideas.
 
2013-07-11 10:22:19 PM  
If you don't like it, stop not committing crimes.
 
2013-07-11 10:25:24 PM  
Just bring back the ole WIld Wild West police scenario. DOA posters and huge bonuses for the bringers of justice.
 
2013-07-11 10:25:24 PM  
i243.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-11 10:27:19 PM  
Yeah this only happens in NYC.
 
2013-07-11 10:28:35 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: See.  This is why I much prefer the gruntled cops.


Agreed.  Someone needs to regruntle them.
 
2013-07-11 10:28:42 PM  
fta if they spied a bulge in somebody's pocket where a gun might be and saw that person touching that spot-they stopped and frisked him.

Just to see what they were packin'

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-11 10:30:44 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Philly's "PPA" has them beat.


The difference is, the PPA's entirety of their job is to issue tickets and enforce parking.

Cops have much broader responsibilities.
 
2013-07-11 10:31:02 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Jeep2011: Since when did NYC become a small town?

Ever since Rudy Giuliani decided that NYC should become the new Disney World for white people. Bloomberg is just continuing the bad ideas.


You can get a large soda at Disney World.
 
2013-07-11 10:33:21 PM  
This next point is very key to those who say, hey, big deal, just getting a ticket, huh? But getting a ticket for those unable to promptly pay it--for whatever reason--is serious indeed:

i.imgur.com
THEN PAY WITH YOUR BLOOD!

/soon enough...
 
2013-07-11 10:36:09 PM  
The New York Times had a really interesting report about this today. It was about how LA had tried this very "roll into crime hot spots and ticket/arrest everyone there committing any infraction, no matter how minor" strategy in the 90's under Darryl Gates and how it failed miserably.  What they and criminologists discovered is that even the bad guys and gangbangers have a sense fairness, and when they perceive the cops as being unfair and arbitrary crime and violence go up, but when they see fairness and justice in the system it goes down.  LA's new approach has sharply dropped crime and the overall murder rate in the city sharply, while NYC's approach seems to have actually increased violence
 
2013-07-11 10:37:28 PM  

Mock26: DarkSoulNoHope: Jeep2011: Since when did NYC become a small town?

Ever since Rudy Giuliani decided that NYC should become the new Disney World for white people. Bloomberg is just continuing the bad ideas.

You can get a large soda at Disney World.


As I said, continuing the bad ideas. :)
 
2013-07-11 10:38:08 PM  
Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.
 
2013-07-11 10:40:12 PM  
Sure, it makes the commanding officer look good. But won't someone notice sooner or later that some officers are doing suspiciously well?
 
2013-07-11 10:41:36 PM  

Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.


Kick them out, send them all to jail under RICO laws, and farking hang them.
 
2013-07-11 10:42:29 PM  

Fluid: Sure, it makes the commanding officer look good. But won't someone notice sooner or later that some officers are doing suspiciously well?


Not if they know what's good for them.
 
2013-07-11 10:43:50 PM  
Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:18 PM  

BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Kick them out, send them all to jail under RICO laws, and farking hang them.


I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.
 
2013-07-11 10:46:10 PM  
Bored cops are never a good thing.

img819.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-11 10:49:46 PM  

Smackledorfer: I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.


Who are people "like me"?

What do you see as the proper response to this kind of thing?
 
2013-07-11 10:50:01 PM  
Yaaaawwwwwwn.

As a life long NYC (born & raised) resident, this is nothing new, I mean last year they proved there was a quota for tickets amongst other things. Its just very easy to fight these tickets, also if you know a cop, ask them to call the ticketing officer and you'll get it dropped before the court date (I would like to thank my NYPD detective neighbor for this). But this is old news. I mean three years ago there was an incident that made the Times, Post and Daily News, where a cop actually gave someone a ticket for j-walking in Brooklyn, I mean everyone does that, I do that by Canal street or 34th or 32nd, etc. The NYPD aren't that bad, 99% of them most of the time are great wonderful people who you can chat up or hang out with (while they are on duty), and most a great guys. Don't blame the cops blame the system that has been around since Mayor LaGuardia. You want to know who are really bad with tickets, the Sanitation Cops, who give tickets for things that aren't illegal, then get the worst court date times to fight it, so most people just pay it. The NYPD has nothing on the sanitation cops.


the very hated Sanitation Cops who think b/c they got a badge they can be a$$holes and pricks
images60.fotki.com
farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2013-07-11 10:50:25 PM  

Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.


New York's finest is the FDNY.
 
2013-07-11 10:52:19 PM  
Extremely high rent relative to the rest of the country.
Bloomberg making NYC into a Disneyland for well paid yuppies.
Cops that run around citing people for random reasons.
Gun laws that make more liberals question them.

Why do people want to live in NYC again?
 
2013-07-11 10:52:55 PM  

BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.

Who are people "like me"?

What do you see as the proper response to this kind of thing?


Why should I bother trying to reason with someone calling for the death penalty for cops and elected officials?
 
2013-07-11 10:54:25 PM  

Notabunny: fta if they spied a bulge in somebody's pocket where a gun might be and saw that person touching that spot-they stopped and frisked him.

Just to see what they were packin'

[img.photobucket.com image 640x777]


Uh....I guess that's better than if they saw a bulge in someone's pocket where a dick might be and saw them touching it.
 
2013-07-11 10:57:06 PM  

davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.


Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.
 
2013-07-11 10:58:10 PM  

Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Kick them out, send them all to jail under RICO laws, and farking hang them.

I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.


If I got to be a benevolent-ish dictator of the US Im sure I wouldnt suck any worse than the republicrats and dempublicans
 
2013-07-11 11:00:19 PM  

Oldiron_79: Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Kick them out, send them all to jail under RICO laws, and farking hang them.

I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.

If I got to be a benevolent-ish dictator of the US Im sure I wouldnt suck any worse than the republicrats and dempublicans


Hey that's clever what you did there. It never occured to me to say both sides are the same!

Any other gems?
 
2013-07-11 11:03:39 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Extremely high rent relative to the rest of the country.
Bloomberg making NYC into a Disneyland for well paid yuppies.
Cops that run around citing people for random reasons.
Gun laws that make more liberals question them.

Why do people want to live in NYC again?


I have often wondered that.  My second fiance wanted to move to New York.  Not live in the suburbs outside of the city, but it had to be inside the city.  If we had well paying jobs lined up to take upon arriving in New York then I would have considered it.  No jobs, no income, no farking way.
 
2013-07-11 11:04:09 PM  

Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.


67.18.219.83
 
2013-07-11 11:05:47 PM  

davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.


Nope FDNY is "New York's Bravest", NYPD is "New Yorks Finest", FDNY-EMS: "New York's Best", NY Department of Corrections "New York's Boldest ", New York Sheriff's Office "New York's First" (should be, "give us work other than handling evictions and serving warrants"), Department of Sanitation of New York "New York's Strongest"

Learn these, they get offended if you get them wrong
 
2013-07-11 11:05:56 PM  
A cop friend of mine said he and his cop friends pulled over women with their hair pulled through a baseball cap just out of curiosity. Next week it would be another reason.  :/
 
2013-07-11 11:08:35 PM  

Satanic panic in the attic: Just bring back the ole WIld Wild West police scenario. DOA posters and huge bonuses for the bringers of justice.


Reacher would be rich!
 
2013-07-11 11:11:13 PM  

Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.


That one might be a little excessive.
 
2013-07-11 11:12:41 PM  

Fluid: Sure, it makes the commanding officer look good. But won't someone notice sooner or later that some officers are doing suspiciously well?


Serpico?
 
2013-07-11 11:15:06 PM  

Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.

Who are people "like me"?

What do you see as the proper response to this kind of thing?

Why should I bother trying to reason with someone calling for the death penalty for cops and elected officials?


Cops and elected officials should be put to death. Or atleast beating, givin the state of things.
 
2013-07-11 11:16:27 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.

Who are people "like me"?

What do you see as the proper response to this kind of thing?

Why should I bother trying to reason with someone calling for the death penalty for cops and elected officials?

Cops and elected officials should be put to death. Or atleast beating, givin the state of things.


Politicians should be limited to serving two terms.  The second term served in prison.
 
2013-07-11 11:17:35 PM  

Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.


Too soon.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:13 PM  

Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.


Good point - and I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this under the hand of no one's friendly Parental Tyrant Michael Bloomberg.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:16 PM  

jedihirsch: Queens and Brooklyn were fixed up, SI was built up and the Bronx became bearable.


False. Some small sections of waterfront areas (LIC, Williamsburgh) got white-washed (in more ways then one) but the rest of the boroughs have been left to rot.

Fact is, the people who make decisions on where to spend money live in manhattan, so guess where money gets spent? As far as they are concerned, Queens is only there to house their domestic help and their nannies.
 
2013-07-11 11:25:45 PM  
It's like most jobs really. It doesn really matter what you do with your day as long as you have a big stack of unnecessary paperwork you can do no wrong. And if there is a real problem, don't worry, memos fix everything and add more bulk to your paperwork.
 
2013-07-11 11:28:26 PM  

davidphogan: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

Too soon.


i394.photobucket.com
/too bad the rest has yet to be finished...
//troll.png
 
2013-07-11 11:30:28 PM  
Some cops are asshats?  Newsflash tag is broken?
 
2013-07-11 11:31:58 PM  

Bucky Katt: Some cops are asshats?  Newsflash tag is broken?



Its being stop and frisked.....
 
2013-07-11 11:35:30 PM  

Allen262: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

[67.18.219.83 image 500x378]


That Sir is magnificent!

/Suaved
 
2013-07-11 11:35:37 PM  

Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.


Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.
 
2013-07-11 11:35:51 PM  

jedihirsch: Actually Rudy made almost no new rules (actually he eliminated many) all he did was actually enforce the ones that existed (something novel) as well as increased the NYPD from 16,000 cops to 42,000 cops (now 34,500, as they were reduced after crime fell) In fact under him Police abuse actually dropped, we only gave up the constitution and our rights under Nanny Bloomy


OgreMagi: I'm getting my NYC mayors mixed up, so it seems.


Even though Rudy made no new rules (I need the citation on this btw) according to you; it's still a dick move to use existing outdated laws to enforce an agenda to turn Times Square into a outdoor mall, fine your local club (many underground clubs, such as my Goth clubs suffered because of this) because 3 or more people were dancing, prevent restaurants from having a bathroom for customers if they're under a certain amount of customer seating (I believe 40 was the number), and other things that just only ruined the quality of things for small businesses and the less affluent. OgreMagi is right to say that you're giving up your constitutional rights jedi, to have a "safe" Manhattan.
 
2013-07-11 11:36:01 PM  

Yogimus: If you don't like it, stop not committing crimes.


Being black while walking down the street is a felony, right?
 
2013-07-11 11:36:04 PM  
28.media.tumblr.com

To be fair the laws are such that's technically trespassing to be in the city.
 
2013-07-11 11:37:51 PM  

Bucky Katt: Yogimus: If you don't like it, stop not committing crimes.

Being black while walking down the street is a felony, right?

 
2013-07-11 11:38:13 PM  

jedihirsch: Yaaaawwwwwwn.

Don't blame the cops blame the system that has been around since Mayor LaGuardia. You want to know who are really bad with tickets, the Sanitation Cops, who give tickets for things that aren't illegal, then get the worst court date times to fight it, so most people just pay it. The NYPD has nothing on the sanitation cops.


the very hated Sanitation Cops who think b/c they got a badge they can be a$$holes and pricks


I just learned there is a whole separate bureau of cops in NYC called Sanitation cops.  Wow.
 
2013-07-11 11:40:28 PM  

lizyrd: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.


Nail meet head
 
2013-07-11 11:42:14 PM  

Allen262: davidphogan: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

Too soon.

[i394.photobucket.com image 180x359]
/too bad the rest has yet to be finished...
//troll.png


I...OMG...seriously?  Peace out, seriously?

/fark it, give me a middle seat
 
2013-07-11 11:45:10 PM  
Sure.

Randomly.

i258.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-11 11:49:50 PM  
cop hate thread of the day?

/little late in the day for it
 
2013-07-11 11:50:59 PM  

davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.


No, that's New Yorks bravest.
 
2013-07-11 11:54:36 PM  

Trance354: cop hate thread of the day?

/little late in the day for it


stop whining about being late for the party.
 
2013-07-11 11:54:57 PM  

Allen262: davidphogan: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

Too soon.

[i394.photobucket.com image 180x359]
/too bad the rest has yet to be finished...
//troll.png


I was thinking 'too soon' as well. You bastard, that's just funny. +1 to you good sir.
 
2013-07-11 11:58:59 PM  
When there is a spreadsheet with your badge number on it, you will fill out the columns.
 
2013-07-11 11:59:09 PM  

lizyrd: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.


Well, the worst part in this case is that the CompStat program (which ratcheted up the organizational pressures you're talking about all the way to "11") was bound up in something called the "broken windows" theory of policing -- or, at least, a somewhat convoluted interpretation of that theory.

Basically, the idea was that, by policing low-level public order offenses/offenders (e.g., turnstile hopping, loitering, etc.), you could prevent more serious crime from occurring. So, not only were the front-line officers pressured to do something quantifiable, they were actually pressured into enforcing bullshiat codes in bullshiat ways -- and then mostly as a pretense for punishing or detaining people that hadn't committed any crime simply because they might have in the future.
 
2013-07-12 12:07:57 AM  

Luse: Allen262: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

[67.18.219.83 image 500x378]

That Sir is magnificent!

/Suaved


I didn't make it but I saved it as well. Some one jumping right to plaid trolling is rare. I may see this once or twice a year.

Heathen: Allen262: davidphogan: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible. These are America's heroes, New York's finest. Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires! Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse. Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

Too soon.

[i394.photobucket.com image 180x359]
/too bad the rest has yet to be finished...
//troll.png

I...OMG...seriously? Peace out, seriously?

/fark it, give me a middle seat


I should port it into photoshop and finish it...

SearchN: Allen262: davidphogan: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

Too soon.

[i394.photobucket.com image 180x359]
/too bad the rest has yet to be finished...
//troll.png

I was thinking 'too soon' as well. You bastard, that's just funny. +1 to you good sir.


Thanks.
 
2013-07-12 12:15:31 AM  

jedihirsch: Nope FDNY is "New York's Bravest", NYPD is "New Yorks Finest", FDNY-EMS: "New York's Best", NY Department of Corrections "New York's Boldest ", New York Sheriff's Office "New York's First" (should be, "give us work other than handling evictions and serving warrants"), Department of Sanitation of New York "New York's Strongest"


You might be full of shiat, or you might be 100% correct. Makes sense, so I'm just gonna have to believe you.
 
2013-07-12 12:15:34 AM  

Bumblefark:  ...

So, not only were the front-line officers pressured to do something quantifiable, they were actually pressured into enforcing bullshiat codes in bullshiat ways -- and then mostly as a pretense for punishing or detaining people that hadn't committed any crime simply because theymight have in the future.

Sir, I believe you meant, "...they may commit in the future". Up against the wall, sir....
 
2013-07-12 12:42:50 AM  

jedihirsch: Thank god for Rudy, he saved the city from becoming like Buffalo


I'm not willing to give Rudy -- or Mikey -- all the credit for the quality of life improvements that have happened in NYC since the 1990s, but this romanticizing of the "good bad old days" when New York was seedier and less safe, less expensive but not as valuable, is a bunch of boolshiat.
 
2013-07-12 12:44:39 AM  

poot_rootbeer: jedihirsch: Thank god for Rudy, he saved the city from becoming like Buffalo

I'm not willing to give Rudy -- or Mikey -- all the credit for the quality of life improvements that have happened in NYC since the 1990s, but this romanticizing of the "good bad old days" when New York was seedier and less safe, less expensive but not as valuable, is a bunch of boolshiat.


It wasn't less safe?

They fake the murder rates now, or what?

/doesn't know shiat about new york
 
2013-07-12 12:45:11 AM  

Bumblefark: lizyrd: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.

Well, the worst part in this case is that the CompStat program (which ratcheted up the organizational pressures you're talking about all the way to "11") was bound up in something called the "broken windows" theory of policing -- or, at least, a somewhat convoluted interpretation of that theory.

Basically, the idea was that, by policing low-level public order offenses/offenders (e.g., turnstile hopping, loitering, etc.), you could prevent more serious crime from occurring. So, not only were the front-line officers pressured to do something quantifiable, they were actually pres ...


What the control freak authoritarians didn't realize is that when you hassle people who aren't up to any shenanigans it deincentivises people from avoiding actual shenanigans.  If you're being treated like a criminal you might as well be a real criminal and get the benefits along with the cons.
 
2013-07-12 12:57:00 AM  

lizyrd: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.


You've got a great point here.  The other piece of the puzzle is a citizen review board.  Unelected citizen volunteers who meet once a month to review complaints against the police, and who are empowered to actually enforce their recommendations somehow.  Citizen review boards are awesome.  You know, because the police are supposed to be servants of the people.
 
2013-07-12 01:00:11 AM  
This is the government.

www.thenader.com

This is governance.

farm4.staticflickr.com

You?

You're revenue.
 
2013-07-12 01:02:05 AM  

bunner: This is the government.

[www.thenader.com image 700x302]

This is governance.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x333]

You?

You're revenue.


Technically, that is the federal reserve, not a part of the government.
 
2013-07-12 01:15:48 AM  

TaterTot_HotDish: lizyrd: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.

You've got a great point here.  The other piece of the puzzle is a citizen review board.  Unelected citizen volunteers who meet once a month to review complaints against the police, and who are empowered to actually enforce their recommendations somehow.  Citizen review boards are awesome.  You know, because the police are supposed to be servants of the people.


I don't know if NYC has a citizen review board or how it might be composed, but if it's anything like the one in Los Angeles, it as a tool of the police and completely under their direct control.  It serves no useful purpose other than as a smokescreen for police corruption and abuse.
 
2013-07-12 01:17:40 AM  

lewismarktwo: What the control freak authoritarians didn't realize is that when you hassle people who aren't up to any shenanigans it deincentivises people from avoiding actual shenanigans. If you're being treated like a criminal you might as well be a real criminal and get the benefits along with the cons.


I was going to say the same thing.  Hell, I'm very law abiding, but if I'm going to be punished for crimes that I have not committed, I'd figure, "what the hell", and just do it.
 
2013-07-12 01:51:53 AM  
A great number of laws (especially traffic laws) on the books exist just to give the cops a flimsy "legal" reason to stop and interrogate a person, not to protect the public from harm or promote public safety.

TFA just illustrates that the police do not care about about protecting citizens, only abusing them to keep their jobs and pensions and that the "good cops" are generally powerless to intervene on the side of decency because the cop culture will punish them.

And cops wonder why people hold them in such low regard and even hate them? I wonder how they sleep at night.
 
2013-07-12 02:03:20 AM  

wambu: A great number of laws (especially traffic laws) on the books exist just to give the cops a flimsy "legal" reason to stop and interrogate a person, not to protect the public from harm or promote public safety.

TFA just illustrates that the police do not care about about protecting citizens, only abusing them to keep their jobs and pensions and that the "good cops" are generally powerless to intervene on the side of decency because the cop culture will punish them.

And cops wonder why people hold them in such low regard and even hate them? I wonder how they sleep at night.


Snuggled up with their ironclad pensions, I'd imagine they are pretty comfy with it.
 
2013-07-12 02:04:17 AM  

lewismarktwo: Bumblefark: lizyrd: Smackledorfer: Note it mentions compstat meetings.

This is deplorable, but final control over cops goes to elected officials, does it not?

Kick the farkers out.

Yeah.

Instead of just accepting that a city needs X number of cops based on whatever criteria is used (density, crime rate, land area), there is a huge push for quantitative "productivity." The idea that a police officer is simply patrolling, on the clock but not doing anything in particular, is offensive to some. By demanding productivity, they are forcing a proactive approach on a service that is reactionary by nature.

It isn't the average patrol officers that think it's a good idea to hassle people for petty stuff and create hours of paperwork. If you told an average cop, "Here's you job: Patrol your assigned area. Keep an eye out for major violations of the law. Assist the public. Issue tickets when necessary as a corrective measure, not as revenue generation. Respond to emergencies when dispatched," he'd be thrilled. That's what most of them sign up for.

Instead, the city administration is on the chief for proof that his cops are "doing something." The shiat starts rolling downhill, a few supervisors get chewed out, and before you know it a bunch of useless paperwork is generated by hassling residents. The chief gets lots of numbers to show the politicians proving that his cops are busy, so his bosses back off him.

Well, the worst part in this case is that the CompStat program (which ratcheted up the organizational pressures you're talking about all the way to "11") was bound up in something called the "broken windows" theory of policing -- or, at least, a somewhat convoluted interpretation of that theory.

Basically, the idea was that, by policing low-level public order offenses/offenders (e.g., turnstile hopping, loitering, etc.), you could prevent more serious crime from occurring. So, not only were the front-line officers pressured to do something quantifiable, they were a ...


It's a weird-ass idea that shows up in other places--we had the same problem at Disneyland just before I quit for the last time. The problem with the "broken windows" theory isn't that the idea itself is bad necessarily--the concept is sound. It's when you throw in the "cops gotta be doing something we can quantify" along with it. It doesn't just make them accountable for future crimes, it also takes away their discretion AND virtually forces them to increase the severity of the crime, because the patrol officer's standing with his watch commander is roughly the same as the police chief's standing with the public. Thus, what would have formerly been a warning becomes a misdemeanor, an infraction becomes a felony. Gotta make those stats look good!

A genuine application of "broken windows" policing would let the cops decide whether the kid who broke the window needs arrested or just a good talking to--but when it's coupled with the need to make the arrest stats look good, the kid is going to get busted every time, and probably for more than just misdemeanor vandalism. It's going to be burglary with intent to commit robbery plus assault with a deadly missile, because three felonies is way better than one infraction. It wastes everyone's time, especially when the judge throws it all out later; ruins the kid's life, and for sure he won't be obeying any laws later on down the line; but that seems to be what people thought they wanted.
 
2013-07-12 02:16:20 AM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Jeep2011: Since when did NYC become a small town?

Ever since Rudy Giuliani decided that NYC should become the new Disney World for white people. Bloomberg is just continuing the bad ideas.


Magorn: The New York Times had a really interesting report about this today. It was about how LA had tried this very "roll into crime hot spots and ticket/arrest everyone there committing any infraction, no matter how minor" strategy in the 90's under Darryl Gates and how it failed miserably.  What they and criminologists discovered is that even the bad guys and gangbangers have a sense fairness, and when they perceive the cops as being unfair and arbitrary crime and violence go up, but when they see fairness and justice in the system it goes down.  LA's new approach has sharply dropped crime and the overall murder rate in the city sharply, while NYC's approach seems to have actually increased violence




It's called. "tit for tat."

Some live by it. Nations, that still exist, swear by it.

Wall St. lives, because of it.
 
2013-07-12 02:31:21 AM  
Hey NYC likes to screw the black man, the black man, the black man.  They have warrantless searches done mostly..... on black men.  But they cool, they're all Democrats up there and Bloomberg is a Jew.  Hell, they even shoot unarmed and non-threatening black men, because... they black men, they black men, they black, black, black, black, black men.

This is all a good reason why we have to convict George Zimmerman.  To save.... the black man, the black man, the black, black, black, black, black man.....
 
2013-07-12 03:10:12 AM  

OgreMagi: teenage mutant ninja rapist: Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Smackledorfer: I feel people like you, if given the power, would be even worse than those you rail against.

Who are people "like me"?

What do you see as the proper response to this kind of thing?

Why should I bother trying to reason with someone calling for the death penalty for cops and elected officials?

Cops and elected officials should be put to death. Or atleast beating, givin the state of things.

Politicians should be limited to serving two terms.  The second term served in prison.




Hmmm, I know a lot of history and no one has tried that before.

I'm game.
 
2013-07-12 04:09:25 AM  

Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.


There's "trolling" and then there's "weapon's grade asshole"
 
2013-07-12 04:39:09 AM  

cuzsis: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

There's "trolling" and then there's "weapon's grade asshole"


There is outrage and then there is "people will agree with me if I rage over this, because I can see others have already raged over it"-outrage.
 
2013-07-12 06:15:01 AM  
The real power of cops is they know your address and the cop is a nomad.
 
2013-07-12 06:15:36 AM  
umm...this ONLY happens in NYC?
 
2013-07-12 06:37:01 AM  
Since this is from Reason, I'll guess it doesn't actually happen,
 
2013-07-12 06:56:12 AM  

davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.


FDNY battalion commanders lead their crews around in firetrucks arbitrarily spraying water at suspicious looking buildings.
 
2013-07-12 07:03:27 AM  
Wow, more reasons to hate cops. I am not surprised.
 
2013-07-12 07:33:19 AM  

Smackledorfer: They fake the murder rates now, or what?

/doesn't know shiat about new york


They have a tough time doing it for murder, but they most certainly do for assault, robbery, and rape.
 
2013-07-12 08:09:11 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

That one might be a little excessive.


Yeah, even for my sick and twisted sense of humor it was a bit over the top.  It is just another reminder on why I should not post while drinking.
 
2013-07-12 08:13:41 AM  

cuzsis: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

There's "trolling" and then there's "weapon's grade asshole"



img.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-12 08:56:23 AM  

Mock26: cuzsis: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

There's "trolling" and then there's "weapon's grade asshole"


[img.photobucket.com image 300x367]


Hard to contain fires when bombs are going off.
 
2013-07-12 09:24:32 AM  

Deep Contact: Mock26: cuzsis: Mock26: davidphogan: Fark It: Impossible.  These are America's heroes, New York's finest.  Remember 9/11.

New York's finest is the FDNY.

Those lazy bastards could not even contain two skyscraper fires!  Instead of doing their job and putting out the fires they turned tail and ran, letting the buildings collapse.  Hardly "finest" by any definition of the word.

There's "trolling" and then there's "weapon's grade asshole"


[img.photobucket.com image 300x367]

Hard to contain fires when bombs are going off.


Bravo!
 
2013-07-12 10:12:53 AM  
From the NYMag.com article...

Serrano did as he was told, but as he took the men's I.D.'s and wrote their tickets, he told them: "I'm violating your rights, and you should take my name down. If you ever want to sue, you can use me as a witness."

Good man.
 
2013-07-12 11:48:13 AM  

Dougie AXP: Marcus Aurelius: Philly's "PPA" has them beat.

The difference is, the PPA's entirety of their job is to issue tickets and enforce parking.


FIXED
 
2013-07-12 12:01:55 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: It's called. "tit for tat."


Where can I get some tat so I can do the swap?
 
2013-07-12 01:24:14 PM  
operation ivy  said it bestofficer
 
2013-07-12 01:55:10 PM  

Smackledorfer: poot_rootbeer: jedihirsch: Thank god for Rudy, he saved the city from becoming like Buffalo

I'm not willing to give Rudy -- or Mikey -- all the credit for the quality of life improvements that have happened in NYC since the 1990s, but this romanticizing of the "good bad old days" when New York was seedier and less safe, less expensive but not as valuable, is a bunch of boolshiat.

It wasn't less safe?

They fake the murder rates now, or what?

/doesn't know shiat about new york


Actually I do know shiat about New York. I was born in the Bronx, raised in Queens, was educated at CUNY and still live here. In fact the longest period I have been out of the city at a single time for is 3 weeks and I rarely leave the five boroughs (and when I do its usually out to the island). This is my town, trust me I know this place. I was around during Rudy's days with the crime. Now about the "fake rates" that was with assaults and robberies by making them on paper (and for later convictions) as lesser crimes, they never touched murders and murder number and this also only started in 2002 under bloomy, and was not there under Rudy

I think you are full of shiat and don't know shiat about my city
 
2013-07-12 02:05:30 PM  

jedihirsch: Actually I do know shiat about New York.


If I say /x like that it refers back to me.  I was saying I don't know shiat about New York.

You don't know shiat about internet posting norms :P*

*the ":P" means I'm kidding, before you take that seriously.
 
2013-07-12 03:21:07 PM  
Reason # 101 for why we laugh when cops get killed.
 
2013-07-12 05:45:19 PM  
Serrano went on to begin taping his bosses giving orders he thought were illegitimate, and then became a witness agaisnt NYPD in a Center for Constitutional Rights lawsuit against NYPD's stop-and-frisk practices.

Honest cop in New York City?  Serpico tried it, and they shot him for it.
 
2013-07-12 10:08:16 PM  

Bumblefark: Well, the worst part in this case is that the CompStat program (which ratcheted up the organizational pressures you're talking about all the way to "11") was bound up in something called the "broken windows" theory of policing -- or, at least, a somewhat convoluted interpretation of that theory.

Basically, the idea was that, by policing low-level public order offenses/offenders (e.g., turnstile hopping, loitering, etc.), you could prevent more serious crime from occurring. So, not only were the front-line officers pressured to do something quantifiable, they were actually pressured into enforcing bullshiat codes in bullshiat ways -- and then mostly as a pretense for punishing or detaining people that hadn't committed any crime simply because they might have in the future.


Thats Part 'A' of the issue. That Compsat exists. Part 'B' is that Compstat used used to determine if a commanding officer is doing a good job or not. If Compstat existed but was used only as a meter (and that was all), then it might not be such a bad thing. Hey, you need to track things, right? But once you have a Lt. going into apply for Captain, and they look at the precincts  compstat to help determine if he should be promoted, you have instantly created incentive to work the system.

The reason why compstat-favoring arrests are made is because its in the best interests of the precincts commanding officers to do so.
 
2013-07-12 10:17:53 PM  
poot_rootbeer:

I'm not willing to give Rudy -- or Mikey -- all the credit for the quality of life improvements that have happened in NYC since the 1990s, but this romanticizing of the "good bad old days" when New York was seedier and less safe, less expensive but not as valuable, is a bunch of boolshiat.


The people who are romanticizing of the "good bad old days"  of NY are not in fact people who were here then. Most of the time, the people who talk that way are the 20-30 somethings from flyover country who watched Taxi Driver too many times back in their parents' living room, who moved to Williamsburg or the LES and act like they hate what NY has become. Most NYers will admit that the quality of life now is better, and not that the dangerous city was better, but was at least more honest.
 
2013-07-13 07:45:28 AM  

jedihirsch: Smackledorfer: poot_rootbeer: jedihirsch: Thank god for Rudy, he saved the city from becoming like Buffalo

I'm not willing to give Rudy -- or Mikey -- all the credit for the quality of life improvements that have happened in NYC since the 1990s, but this romanticizing of the "good bad old days" when New York was seedier and less safe, less expensive but not as valuable, is a bunch of boolshiat.

It wasn't less safe?

They fake the murder rates now, or what?

/doesn't know shiat about new york

Actually I do know shiat about New York. I was born in the Bronx, raised in Queens, was educated at CUNY and still live here. In fact the longest period I have been out of the city at a single time for is 3 weeks and I rarely leave the five boroughs (and when I do its usually out to the island). This is my town, trust me I know this place. I was around during Rudy's days with the crime. Now about the "fake rates" that was with assaults and robberies by making them on paper (and for later convictions) as lesser crimes, they never touched murders and murder number and this also only started in 2002 under bloomy, and was not there under Rudy

I think you are full of shiat and don't know shiat about my city


"...been out of the city is for 3 weeks..."

This is precisely why those of us in New York State despise those of you in New York City. If not for your vortex of a city, my taxes would be cut in half. NYC is unsustainable, and it's a huge drain on the state. Know why NYC water is "the best tasting" city water? Because it's piped in from hundreds of miles away, upstate. You farkers ship your sewage sludge, construction debris, and garbage on long trains to far-off places.

On behalf of upstate, fark NYC.
 
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