If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(C|Net)   Proving the distinctions between "Smartphones", "Computers" and "digital cameras" are now more or less meaningless, Nokia unveils a 2gb Windows-based phone with 41 Megapixel camera built in   (news.cnet.com) divider line 108
    More: Spiffy, Nokia, Lumia, Windows, pixels, Windows Phones, digital cameras  
•       •       •

2425 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Jul 2013 at 1:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



108 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-11 09:36:31 AM
This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.
 
2013-07-11 10:15:29 AM

mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.


Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.
 
2013-07-11 10:54:04 AM

mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.


It's actually a pretty cool technology that they're using.  It isn't supposed to take 41 megapixel images.  If it works like the PureView 808 they released last year it will take 5 megapixel images and use the extremely high resolution sensor to oversample to reduce noise, produce sharper images, and provide a better digital zoom experience without picture degradation.   Here's a good write up on the technology behind it.
 
2013-07-11 11:07:01 AM
Well, everything I came in here to say has already been said.  I...  I guess I'll be going?
 
2013-07-11 11:11:17 AM
Again, Nokia ALMOST gets it right. What's so hard about putting a MicroSD card slot in a phone?
 
2013-07-11 11:15:19 AM

dj_bigbird: Again, Nokia ALMOST gets it right. What's so hard about putting a MicroSD card slot in a phone?


One of the big reasons a lot of manufacturers choose to skip the MicroSD slot is that those cards are often much slower than the main storage inside the phone, and clueless owners who install apps to the card end up with a degraded or broken user experience that they then blame on the phone instead of them installing apps to a slow card.

Nokia has at least been good about putting a lot of local storage in their phones, my Lumia 920 came with 32gb and cost less than many Android or iOS devices that only come with 16gb.
 
2013-07-11 12:21:40 PM

mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.


http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/03/05/nokia-808-pureview-carl-ze is s-science-of-making-the-perfect-lens/

The Nokia 808 Pureview (the predecessor to the phone in this article) has a 6 element Carl Zeiss lens.

And here's the comparison of the sensor size for the PureView 808:

cdn.cameradebate.com
 
2013-07-11 12:23:17 PM
If a shiatty lens is in front of the 41 megapixel sensor, then it's not going to matter.
 
2013-07-11 12:26:40 PM
assets.hardwarezone.com

Another sensor size comparison.
 
2013-07-11 12:33:34 PM
Here's a leaked video of the Lumia 1020, courtesy of AT&T:

When the seller releases video, it's called a "release" not a "leak."
 
2013-07-11 01:09:58 PM
Can we stop naming devices that do not have a phone number you actually dial to call "smartphones"?  Every time some marketshare report comes out showing more android smartphones than iOS smartphones, my apple friends say all the studies are "BS" and scurry to lump in iPads and such because "they can make skype calls, which is the same as a phone" and it's completely obnoxious.

Anywho, the first link in the comments  http://versus.com/en/nokia-lumia-1020-vs-samsung-galaxy-s4  seemed relevant.
 
2013-07-11 01:21:38 PM

surewewang: Can we stop naming devices that do not have a phone number you actually dial to call "smartphones"?  Every time some marketshare report comes out showing more android smartphones than iOS smartphones, my apple friends say all the studies are "BS" and scurry to lump in iPads and such because "they can make skype calls, which is the same as a phone" and it's completely obnoxious.

Anywho, the first link in the comments  http://versus.com/en/nokia-lumia-1020-vs-samsung-galaxy-s4  seemed relevant.


I haven't seen things that aren't actual phones being called smartphones.  This is an actual real phone, it just has a larger than normal camera built into it.

I do agree calling iPads phones is disingenuous however.  You could compare total iOS devices vs total Android devices if you wanted, but I think Android would still come out ahead because of the sheer number of things that run some version of it.
 
2013-07-11 01:34:26 PM

TuteTibiImperes: surewewang: Can we stop naming devices that do not have a phone number you actually dial to call "smartphones"?  Every time some marketshare report comes out showing more android smartphones than iOS smartphones, my apple friends say all the studies are "BS" and scurry to lump in iPads and such because "they can make skype calls, which is the same as a phone" and it's completely obnoxious.

Anywho, the first link in the comments  http://versus.com/en/nokia-lumia-1020-vs-samsung-galaxy-s4  seemed relevant.

I haven't seen things that aren't actual phones being called smartphones.  This is an actual real phone, it just has a larger than normal camera built into it.

I do agree calling iPads phones is disingenuous however.  You could compare total iOS devices vs total Android devices if you wanted, but I think Android would still come out ahead because of the sheer number of things that run some version of it.


I didn't intend to lead on that this device wasn't a smartphone...I was just sort of commenting on the "blurring the distinction of terms" mentioned in submitter headline.  I used to work a dev shop where nearly the entire company carried around iphones except for me and a few others. They were always protective of their iphone-as-a-status and moving the goalposts when those marketshare reports surfaced with their "I don't think this is a good study because it doesn't define what a smartphone is" hogwash.

Sorry...didn't mean to derail.
 
2013-07-11 01:55:52 PM

surewewang: I didn't intend to lead on that this device wasn't a smartphone...I was just sort of commenting on the "blurring the distinction of terms" mentioned in submitter headline. I used to work a dev shop where nearly the entire company carried around iphones except for me and a few others. They were always protective of their iphone-as-a-status and moving the goalposts when those marketshare reports surfaced with their "I don't think this is a good study because it doesn't define what a smartphone is" hogwash.


Just smugly remind them that something that costs less than a grand can't possibly be a status symbol.
 
2013-07-11 01:56:20 PM

Gecko Gingrich: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.


Nah, I'll take the one that fits in my pocket and takes pictures that are good enough.

You can't easily get a 5MP SLR to fly on an electric plane or quadcopter. The 30$ pinhole HD cameras are more than good enough.
 
2013-07-11 02:01:51 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Gecko Gingrich: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.

Nah, I'll take the one that fits in my pocket and takes pictures that are good enough.

You can't easily get a 5MP SLR to fly on an electric plane or quadcopter. The 30$ pinhole HD cameras are more than good enough.


You could try 3D printing a mount for a larger camera.
 
2013-07-11 02:04:14 PM

Cambrian: Quantum Apostrophe: Gecko Gingrich: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.

Nah, I'll take the one that fits in my pocket and takes pictures that are good enough.

You can't easily get a 5MP SLR to fly on an electric plane or quadcopter. The 30$ pinhole HD cameras are more than good enough.

You could try 3D printing a mount for a larger camera.


I'm thinking the weight is more of an issue than the physical dimensions.
 
2013-07-11 02:07:46 PM

Cambrian: Quantum Apostrophe: Gecko Gingrich: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.

Nah, I'll take the one that fits in my pocket and takes pictures that are good enough.

You can't easily get a 5MP SLR to fly on an electric plane or quadcopter. The 30$ pinhole HD cameras are more than good enough.

You could try 3D printing a mount for a larger camera.


(Or I could buy a professionally made and correctly working gimbal mount for 40$ with servos.)

You'd still need to 3D print larger LiPo batteries and 3D print larger brushless motors and 3D print larger props to fly that larger camera and its 3D printed gimbal.

Never mind you can't do any of that, so just put a small camera. (20$ for the cheap stuff)

But of course feel free to spend weeks and months to make a product inferior in every way. You're a "maker", and you're going to change the world!

While you're doing that, I'm gonna go outside and fly my toy.
 
2013-07-11 02:08:55 PM

Gecko Gingrich: I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.


I wouldn't.  In practice, those old 5 megapixel sensors are really inferior  to modern 1" or even 1/1.7" sensors in everything but native ISO.

Now, if they put modern innovation into a 5 megapixel SLR sensor, that'd be a different story.  Pixel size isn't everything.
 
2013-07-11 02:10:21 PM
Two gigabits of storage isn't a whole hell of a lot, subby.

/someone had to say it.
 
2013-07-11 02:11:09 PM

mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.


It's also not a "computer".  A general purpose computer needs the ability to run arbitrary code from a variety of sources, which both (unhacked) iOS and Windows Phone lack.  They're more akin to game consoles than computers, to be honest.

/Android has it, though
 
2013-07-11 02:12:47 PM
One of the reasons I chose the HTC One is that it's camera is 4MP but gathers 300% more light than higher MP cameras, night shots come out just amazing.
 
2013-07-11 02:14:30 PM

likefunbutnot: Two gigabits of storage isn't a whole hell of a lot, subby.

/someone had to say it.


Except that it's 2GB (gigabytes) of RAM. Not storage. 
It has 32GB of storage on top of the RAM.
 
2013-07-11 02:17:28 PM

Cambrian: Quantum Apostrophe: Gecko Gingrich: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.

Nah, I'll take the one that fits in my pocket and takes pictures that are good enough.

You can't easily get a 5MP SLR to fly on an electric plane or quadcopter. The 30$ pinhole HD cameras are more than good enough.

You could try 3D printing a mount for a larger camera.


With that, you could probably fly your quadracopter all the way into space!
 
2013-07-11 02:23:10 PM

HeartBurnKid: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

It's also not a "computer".  A general purpose computer needs the ability to run arbitrary code from a variety of sources, which both (unhacked) iOS and Windows Phone lack.  They're more akin to game consoles than computers, to be honest.

/Android has it, though


Anyone can submit an app to the Apple or Windows app stores, and both support custom enterprise applications that aren't listed or subject to the app store constraints as well.

Android gives you the option of multiple app stores, but you still have to get root access if you want to run unsigned code don't you?

Plus, iOS and WP8 offer OS upgrades without carrier interference, with Android you have to either wait around for your carrier to implement the update supplied by Google (or just buy a Nexus device) or use 3rd party ROMs.  Being able to upgrade your OS without permission of the vendor who sold it to you or hacking is something that a computer should be able to do, just saying.
 
2013-07-11 02:24:21 PM

phimuskapsi: likefunbutnot: Two gigabits of storage isn't a whole hell of a lot, subby.

/someone had to say it.

Except that it's 2GB (gigabytes) of RAM. Not storage.
It has 32GB of storage on top of the RAM.


[thatsthejoke.jpg]
 
2013-07-11 02:24:58 PM
41 megapixels?  Can it take x-rays or see through clothes?
 
2013-07-11 02:25:51 PM

phimuskapsi: Except that it's 2GB (gigabytes) of RAM. Not storage.


Sure, but that's not what subby wrote in the headline.
It's still not terribly impressive either way; 2GB RAM is standard equipment for respectable handheld device at this point.
 
2013-07-11 02:27:36 PM

Hollie Maea: Cambrian: Quantum Apostrophe: Gecko Gingrich: mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.

Ah, I see I've been beaten to the punch. I'll take a 5 megapixel SLR over a 1.21 Jigapixel camera phone any day.

Nah, I'll take the one that fits in my pocket and takes pictures that are good enough.

You can't easily get a 5MP SLR to fly on an electric plane or quadcopter. The 30$ pinhole HD cameras are more than good enough.

You could try 3D printing a mount for a larger camera.

With that, you could probably fly your quadracopter all the way into space!


Maybe. You wanna Paypal me some money? I promise I'll only buy a 3D printer with it, and not, say, a Glenfarclas 25. Nope.

Or we can redefine space to be 325 meters up for the purposes of the discussion?

You wanna see how this Luddite took pictures from the air 20 years ago?

www.molossia.org

Oddly, all the pictures it took all look the same no matter where, when and who took them...

www.tripolimontana.org
 
2013-07-11 02:28:29 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Android gives you the option of multiple app stores, but you still have to get root access if you want to run unsigned code don't you?


No. Almost every Android device has "All this device to run applications from unknown sources" as a user-selectable option.
 
2013-07-11 02:30:24 PM
I would like to own this phone.
 
2013-07-11 02:31:11 PM
Quite apart from the whole megapixel debate, come and sit, subby, and explain to me how phones and cameras are like my laptop, because I'm just not seeing how I can play World of Tanks on my camera.
 
2013-07-11 02:33:19 PM
I am excited for this to come out. I am a little bummed about the 32 GB storage, but I recall reading that all Windows phones come with 10 GB of SkyDrive space, so that would help mitigate the problem somewhat.

Imagine the implications for journalists, though. Instead of having to carry around all kinds of camera equipment, they get one, pocket-sized smart device that is their camera, their phone (works for video calls, too), can access the internet, has worldwide navigation, and is a very efficient organizer/planner.
 
2013-07-11 02:39:45 PM

Doomed: Quite apart from the whole megapixel debate, come and sit, subby, and explain to me how phones and cameras are like my laptop, because I'm just not seeing how I can play World of Tanks on my camera.


I have a ~14 year old Kodak DC210 that can play Doom.
 
2013-07-11 02:40:09 PM
This will surely convince all iPhone and Android users to switch to Windows phones.
 
2013-07-11 02:50:11 PM

THX 1138: This will surely convince all iPhone and Android users to switch to Windows phones.


What made me switch from my iPhone was playing with a Lumia 920 at the AT&T store when my contract was up and I was trying to decide on what next.  Compared to the iPhone 5, Galaxy Note 2, LG Optimus G, etc, it just felt the best and I really liked the interface.  It's really an appealing platform, and I have a feeling more people would switch if they gave it a shot.
 
2013-07-11 02:53:47 PM

HeartBurnKid: It's also not a "computer". A general purpose computer needs the ability to run arbitrary code from a variety of sources, which both (unhacked) iOS and Windows Phone lack.


This is a definition of computer that I've never ever encountered before in all my years.
 
2013-07-11 02:58:38 PM
I've seen a lot of pixels in my time.
 
2013-07-11 03:03:42 PM

TuteTibiImperes: THX 1138: This will surely convince all iPhone and Android users to switch to Windows phones.

What made me switch from my iPhone was playing with a Lumia 920 at the AT&T store when my contract was up and I was trying to decide on what next.  Compared to the iPhone 5, Galaxy Note 2, LG Optimus G, etc, it just felt the best and I really liked the interface.  It's really an appealing platform, and I have a feeling more people would switch if they gave it a shot.


Agreed, I think it's a really nice platform that people should give a chance. Too many people buy into "I heard it's bad so I think it's bad and it's MS so it's bad" kind of ruts.
 
2013-07-11 03:07:57 PM

TuteTibiImperes: It's really an appealing platform, and I have a feeling more people would switch if they gave it a shot.


There's nothing wrong with Windows Mobile. It's just as capable as the other players in the market. It's just not widely adopted and there's only the one manufacturer making devices. Handheld devices aren't one size fits all though, and the only platform that legitimately recognizes that is Google's.
 
2013-07-11 03:10:09 PM

likefunbutnot: TuteTibiImperes: It's really an appealing platform, and I have a feeling more people would switch if they gave it a shot.

There's nothing wrong with Windows Mobile. It's just as capable as the other players in the market. It's just not widely adopted and there's only the one manufacturer making devices. Handheld devices aren't one size fits all though, and the only platform that legitimately recognizes that is Google's.


Eh, you're not necessarily wrong, but the market is not exactly short on Apple devices - a single manufacturer of a limited selection. If the experience is good, it's not necessarily a factor.

Also I don't believe that's even correct, HTC also makes a WP8 device.
 
2013-07-11 03:11:22 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Android gives you the option of multiple app stores, but you still have to get root access if you want to run unsigned code don't you?


Nope.

RexTalionis: HeartBurnKid: It's also not a "computer". A general purpose computer needs the ability to run arbitrary code from a variety of sources, which both (unhacked) iOS and Windows Phone lack.

This is a definition of computer that I've never ever encountered before in all my years.


It's a necessary distinction to distinguish it from every other electronic appliance on the market, from game consoles to DVD players to ovens.
 
2013-07-11 03:11:46 PM

likefunbutnot: TuteTibiImperes: It's really an appealing platform, and I have a feeling more people would switch if they gave it a shot.

There's nothing wrong with Windows Mobile. It's just as capable as the other players in the market. It's just not widely adopted and there's only the one manufacturer making devices. Handheld devices aren't one size fits all though, and the only platform that legitimately recognizes that is Google's.


I was walking through a cell phone store last weekend and saw Windows 8 phones by Nokia, HTC and even one make by Samsung.  So there are multiple manufacturers out there.  Nokia just has made the 'flagship' model so to speak.
 
2013-07-11 03:16:37 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: You'd still need to 3D print larger LiPo batteries and 3D print larger brushless motors and 3D print larger props to fly that larger camera and its 3D printed gimbal.


Ahem:

Printed Electronics

We are not all the way there, but we will be soon.

Current 3D printing technology compared to where we will be in ~15 years is like the difference between a mimeograph and this:

www.flash.com.au
 
2013-07-11 03:20:32 PM

mr_a: This is not a "camera".

You can have 41 Billion megapixels and it won't make much difference. What matters is the physical size of the sensor, and of course having a multi-element lens made out of optical glass.


the physical size of the lens matters too. bigger lens = more light, and there's no getting around that. plus, focal length: you're just not going to be able to replicate the effects of a telephoto lens in a little 5mm wide phone lens, not without massive chromatic aberration and so on
 
2013-07-11 03:23:20 PM

HeartBurnKid: TuteTibiImperes: Android gives you the option of multiple app stores, but you still have to get root access if you want to run unsigned code don't you?

Nope.

RexTalionis: HeartBurnKid: It's also not a "computer". A general purpose computer needs the ability to run arbitrary code from a variety of sources, which both (unhacked) iOS and Windows Phone lack.

This is a definition of computer that I've never ever encountered before in all my years.

It's a necessary distinction to distinguish it from every other electronic appliance on the market, from game consoles to DVD players to ovens.


The difference is in purpose and usage of the device.  While I'm sure it's possible to run custom code on a DVD player if you try hard enough, virtually no one is going to do that, as the purpose is to play DVDs, and that's it.  Smartphones, whether running Android, iOS, or Windows Phone are designed to run a variety of programs from games to productivity apps as well as make calls, browse the web, and handle e-mail/text communication - all of the major platforms support that functionality well.

You may not be able to write and compile code on your PC then sideload it into a Windows Phone or iOS device without some hacking, but that's really not a legitimate concern for the vast majority of users.  As long as I can find programs that do what I need to do in the official app stores, I don't really care about being able to run arbitrary code that hasn't gone through the app submission process.

An iOS or Windows Phone device is still every bit as much a computer as an Android device - just because you can't get a command prompt doesn't invalidate that status.
 
2013-07-11 03:24:35 PM

phimuskapsi: One of the reasons I chose the HTC One is that it's camera is 4MP but gathers 300% more light than higher MP cameras, night shots come out just amazing.


Peeping Toms are justifiably reviled in polite society, ya know. ;^)
 
2013-07-11 03:27:24 PM

LasersHurt: the market is not exactly short on Apple devices - a single manufacturer of a limited selection.


The irony that Apple, a company that used to pride itself on consideration of human factors in computing, only just figured out there might be a reason to make handheld devices in different sizes is entirely relevant to my point.
 
2013-07-11 03:34:25 PM

TuteTibiImperes: You may not be able to write and compile code on your PC then sideload it into a Windows Phone or iOS device without some hacking, but that's really not a legitimate concern for the vast majority of users.


FWIW, .NET Compact Framework programs can run without modification or recompilation on Windows PCs.
/At least up until WM6. Not sure if the .NETCF is on WM8.
 
2013-07-11 03:40:28 PM

HeartBurnKid: RexTalionis: HeartBurnKid: It's also not a "computer". A general purpose computer needs the ability to run arbitrary code from a variety of sources, which both (unhacked) iOS and Windows Phone lack.

This is a definition of computer that I've never ever encountered before in all my years.

It's a necessary distinction to distinguish it from every other electronic appliance on the market, from game consoles to DVD players to ovens.


Suppose there is a desktop that is locked down so that it cannot run arbitrary code, that is apparently  not a computer.

Nor, by that definition, is a Chromebook.
 
Displayed 50 of 108 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report