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(Fox News)   David Ortiz officially becomes worst abomination in baseball history   (foxnews.com) divider line 181
    More: PSA, Red Sox, David Ortiz, Aaron Harang, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Felix Doubront, designated hitter, Justin Smoak, Jacoby Ellsbury  
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3403 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Jul 2013 at 10:20 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-11 09:46:03 AM
ARod's testicles?
 
2013-07-11 10:24:52 AM
Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.
 
2013-07-11 10:27:39 AM

Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.


And don't get me started on football, or goalies!
 
2013-07-11 10:29:31 AM
blackhouse.typepad.com

"You get a cookie!"
 
2013-07-11 10:29:32 AM

Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.


You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?
 
2013-07-11 10:31:04 AM
These purists always carrying on about the DH, wondering why we need that 10th guy.  Hey, square eyes!  Ever thought about getting rid of the pitcher instead?  There's, like, 10 or 20 good ones and the league collectively carries about 300 of them.
 
2013-07-11 10:32:32 AM
A DH record -- baseball's version of a "Participant" trophy.
 
2013-07-11 10:33:44 AM

MFAWG: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?


Which begs the question: if a majority of people misuse the term "begging the question" do they become right?
 
2013-07-11 10:35:32 AM
Oh god, it's like a Pete Rose thread and a DH thread had some sort of terrifying love child.
 
2013-07-11 10:36:09 AM

regindyn: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

And don't get me started on football, or goalies!


Nope, football has specific offensive and defensive players, it's how the game has been set up. With the exception of ironman football, or a trick play, the game had separate offensive and defensive players, it's the way it is. Same with hockey. Baseball, on the other hand, is completely built around players being good on BOTH sides of the ball, except for certain nancies...
 
2013-07-11 10:37:08 AM

MFAWG: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?


For the life of me, I can never remember if it's AL or NL that has this farked up crop...
 
2013-07-11 10:37:12 AM

Nana's Vibrator: These purists always carrying on about the DH, wondering why we need that 10th guy.  Hey, square eyes!  Ever thought about getting rid of the pitcher instead?  There's, like, 10 or 20 good ones and the league collectively carries about 300 of them.


and furthermore, if everyone else is required to field and hit, why does the hitter have the "designated hitter" stigma but the pitcher gets a free pass?  He should be the designated pitcher.
And of the 120 shiatty pitchers in the National league, how many can hit?  3 or 4?  Over how many plate appearances?  Pitching is the abomnination in MLB.  A good pitcher who can hit is an artiste, but only a handful per decade come around.

Where are our Fark statisticians?  I require complementary data!
 
2013-07-11 10:37:19 AM

Mikey1969: Baseball, on the other hand, is completely built around players being good on BOTH sides of the ball, except for certain nancies...


Which is why they added the DH, so said nancies don't have to flail away at three fastballs and humiliate themselves.
 
2013-07-11 10:39:13 AM

Raging Whore Moans: MFAWG: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?

Which begs the question: if a majority of people misuse the term "begging the question" do they become right?


Nothing is constant but change.
 
2013-07-11 10:42:29 AM
i1.ytimg.com
Guys, chill out, it's just an ESPN commercial.
 
2013-07-11 10:43:22 AM
Stupid article contradicts itself in the first two paragraphs.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:41 AM
I LOVE seeing all of my favorite players get pulled from the game for another reliever.

/I don't mind the rule. Get over it.
 
2013-07-11 10:47:38 AM

Nana's Vibrator: Where are our Fark statisticians? I require complementary data!


Here's the simplest data I'll provide:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=p&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0& ty pe=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0,ss&rost=0&age=0&fil ter=&players=0

pay attention to the wRC+ column, and watch as it goes from "decent hitting SS" to "backup catcher" to "automatic out" to "I don't actually know how to conceptualize a negative wRC+, but there's a lot of them"

It's generally tied to the growth of the rotation & bullpen. If you had one or two guys making most of your starts, with no relievers, they can hit well enough. If you have 5 guys, and they usually only get 2 plate appearances per start, that's not gonna work too great.
 
2013-07-11 10:48:55 AM

BunkoSquad: Mikey1969: Baseball, on the other hand, is completely built around players being good on BOTH sides of the ball, except for certain nancies...

Which is why they added the DH, so said nancies don't have to flail away at three fastballs and humiliate themselves.


There is ONE aspect of baseball that annoys me even more: The intentional walk. I like the game, I swear, but when they start intentionally walking someone, it becomes a boring 'Watching grass grow' type of event.
 
2013-07-11 10:49:35 AM
can we get designated fielders for great batters that don't know how to handle a fly ball?
 
2013-07-11 10:50:23 AM

Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.


You mean that baseball has changed since the 1920's or 1930's or whenever it was you grew up on it?

I am shocked.  Has anyone alerted Romero?

But since baseball has changed to include specialists like 'closers' and 'middle relief' and whatnot, it also changed to include DHs to remove the automatic out that a SP represented.

But keep shaking your fist at that cloud and secure that onion firmly to your belt, gramps.  I am sure the billion dollar industry (and growing) that is MLB will certainly go back to the days of yore...maybe even after your next post!

Me? I prefer hitting as opposed to some SP specialist grounding out weakly to the mound...

static.comicvine.com
 
2013-07-11 10:55:42 AM

Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.


What are your feelings on the Libero position in volleyball?
 
2013-07-11 10:55:53 AM

Mikey1969: Nope, football has specific offensive and defensive players, it's how the game has been set up. With the exception of ironman football, or a trick play, the game had separate offensive and defensive players, it's the way it is.


Oh, wow.  Who wants to jump on this one?
 
2013-07-11 10:57:29 AM

asmodeus224: But keep shaking your fist at that cloud and secure that onion firmly to your belt, gramps.  I am sure the billion dollar industry (and growing) that is MLB will certainly go back to the days of yore...maybe even after your next post!


But what of the majestic double switch????  Are you monster enough to rid baseball of the excitement of a manager walking up to the umpire and altering TWO spots on his lineup in one brilliant maneuver?
 
2013-07-11 10:59:57 AM
Cricket > baseball.
 
2013-07-11 11:00:58 AM

DeWayne Mann: Here's the simplest data I'll provide:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=p&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0& ty pe=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0,ss&rost=0&age=0&fil ter=&players=0

pay attention to the wRC+ column, and watch as it goes from "decent hitting SS" to "backup catcher" to "automatic out" to "I don't actually know how to conceptualize a negative wRC+, but there's a lot of them"

It's generally tied to the growth of the rotation & bullpen. If you had one or two guys making most of your starts, with no relievers, they can hit well enough. If you have 5 guys, and they usually only get 2 plate appearances per start, that's not gonna work too great.


While 2006 was the low point, I got a good chuckle looking at 1974.  What would have happened that year?  Mandatory hitting camp for all pitchers?  Or more likely there were 1 or 2 starting pitchers raking in the created runs.
 
2013-07-11 11:01:27 AM
I'm not surprised that a member of the Red Sox eventually wound up in a headline using the phrase "worst abomination in baseball history" but I thought for sure the aforementioned abomination would be Manny Ramirez.
 
2013-07-11 11:01:39 AM

dragonchild: Mikey1969: Nope, football has specific offensive and defensive players, it's how the game has been set up. With the exception of ironman football, or a trick play, the game had separate offensive and defensive players, it's the way it is.

Oh, wow.  Who wants to jump on this one?


I've been ignoring it to keep my sanity intact.
 
2013-07-11 11:02:57 AM
I liked this comment in the game notes at the bottom:

"The Mariners have hit at least one homer in 18 straight games, the longest such stretch since running off 18 straight from Sept. 9-29, 2012"

Ah, those long ago days of September 2012. Seriously, I love stats as much as anyone, and more than most, but saying the last time this happened was less than half a season ago, is stupid.
 
2013-07-11 11:05:57 AM

Yanks_RSJ: asmodeus224: But keep shaking your fist at that cloud and secure that onion firmly to your belt, gramps.  I am sure the billion dollar industry (and growing) that is MLB will certainly go back to the days of yore...maybe even after your next post!

But what of the majestic double switch????  Are you monster enough to rid baseball of the excitement of a manager walking up to the umpire and altering TWO spots on his lineup in one brilliant maneuver?


You know, I used to think Jimy Williams used the DH/fielder (double?) switch in American League games to lose the use of his DH as a protest to the rule.  IIRC, he used it befuddlingly many times (the standard there is more than once or twice in an American League managing career)
 
2013-07-11 11:06:13 AM

Nana's Vibrator: While 2006 was the low point, I got a good chuckle looking at 1974. What would have happened that year? Mandatory hitting camp for all pitchers? Or more likely there were 1 or 2 starting pitchers raking in the created runs.


Looks like it's mostly the Pirates & Astros messing everything up.
 
2013-07-11 11:08:16 AM
I have the perfect solution to the DH problem: The DPH. The Designated Pinch Hitter.

Basically, it works like a hybrid of the DH and a pinch hitter. Before the game, the manager names one defensive player he's going to replace in the lineup with the DPH. Doesn't have to be the pitcher, but... it's gonna be the pitcher about 99.938% of the time.

When it's time for the DPH to hit, he does, but once that inning's over, he's no longer allowed back in the game.

This accomplishes two things. First off, it brings some strategy to play in the DH slot. When do you use your OBP machine, vs. when do you use your Adam Dunn/ Rob Deer "this is either gonna be a strikeout or HR" clone? Second, it prevents guys from accomplishing meaningless records in the DH slot. You might be able to stick around a couple more seasons, but if the only value you bring to a team is as a DH, they might look to replace you with a guy who's a better overall player. If you can only hit once a game, you're not as valuable as a guy who can do more.

This also brings up the possibility of bullpen guys being called on to serve in the DPH role, and that brings other fun into play. It might be strategically smart to have yesterday's starting pitcher come up to the plate in the 6th inning, for example. Which is good- unless he did a little headhunting last night.

I think this is an idea whose time has come.
 
2013-07-11 11:08:45 AM

Nana's Vibrator: You know, I used to think Jimy Williams used the DH/fielder (double?) switch in American League games to lose the use of his DH as a protest to the rule.  IIRC, he used it befuddlingly many times (the standard there is more than once or twice in an American League managing career)


Girardi's BinderTM apparently has the same "lose the DH" page that he occasionally flips to.
 
2013-07-11 11:11:08 AM

Mikey1969: MFAWG: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?

For the life of me, I can never remember if it's AL or NL that has this farked up crop...


I think you missed his point.  The AL has the DH, as does almost every other professional baseball league on the planet.  Therefore, the NL is the outlier for forcing pitchers to hit.
 
2013-07-11 11:15:14 AM
The Harold Baines Lifetime Achievement Award

+eleventy on the headline
 
2013-07-11 11:19:37 AM
Also, just because it's somewhat relevant, and may be my favorite FJM entry in history:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/01/this-is-going-to-be-annoying.ht ml
 
2013-07-11 11:19:46 AM
Junior Circuit cretins
 
2013-07-11 11:23:15 AM
For some reason I'm still surprised that Big Papi outlasted Manny Ramirez' career in MLB. But then Manny is such a jerk.
 
2013-07-11 11:23:54 AM

Jerkwater: Mikey1969: MFAWG: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?

For the life of me, I can never remember if it's AL or NL that has this farked up crop...

I think you missed his point.  The AL has the DH, as does almost every other professional baseball league on the planet.  Therefore, the NL is the outlier for forcing pitchers to hit.


Pitchers should have to hit. Every other player on the goddam field has to be able to do both,. What makes these farkrs so special? It would be like being able to take someone like Shaq out every time there was a free throw.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:49 AM

skinink: For some reason I'm still surprised that Big Papi outlasted Manny Ramirez' career in MLB. But then Manny is such a jerk.


Manny's making a comeback. Don't count him out yet
 
2013-07-11 11:25:26 AM

skinink: For some reason I'm still surprised that Big Papi outlasted Manny Ramirez' career in MLB. But then Manny is such a jerk.


Manny's three years older, and played two years more. And that ignores that there's a pretty good chance the Rangers will call him up this year.
 
2013-07-11 11:27:26 AM

dragonchild: Mikey1969: Nope, football has specific offensive and defensive players, it's how the game has been set up. With the exception of ironman football, or a trick play, the game had separate offensive and defensive players, it's the way it is.

Oh, wow.  Who wants to jump on this one?


Mikey's gotta be trolling.  No one's that stupid, right?
 
2013-07-11 11:28:00 AM

Mikey1969: Pitchers should have to hit. Every other player on the goddam field has to be able to do both,. What makes these farkrs so special? It would be like being able to take someone like Shaq out every time there was a free throw.


Why are we comparing baseball and basketball?
 
2013-07-11 11:31:29 AM

DeWayne Mann: skinink: For some reason I'm still surprised that Big Papi outlasted Manny Ramirez' career in MLB. But then Manny is such a jerk.

Manny's three years older, and played two years more. And that ignores that there's a pretty good chance the Rangers will call him up this year.


nooooooooooooooo.com
 
2013-07-11 11:34:58 AM

idesofmarch: DeWayne Mann: skinink: For some reason I'm still surprised that Big Papi outlasted Manny Ramirez' career in MLB. But then Manny is such a jerk.

Manny's three years older, and played two years more. And that ignores that there's a pretty good chance the Rangers will call him up this year.

[nooooooooooooooo.com image 383x263]


In fact, I think if Nelson Cruz gets suspended for Biogenesis next week (as is rumored), Manny will be on the first flight to Arlington.

Or to wherever the Rangers are if they're on the road after the ASG break.
 
2013-07-11 11:37:10 AM

Gunny Highway: Mikey1969: Pitchers should have to hit. Every other player on the goddam field has to be able to do both,. What makes these farkrs so special? It would be like being able to take someone like Shaq out every time there was a free throw.

Why are we comparing baseball and basketball?


Because I needed SOMETING to compare it to to point out that baseball pitchers are pussies.

Here, I'll explain this to you:

1. I needed to make a comparison to make my point.
2. I couldn't use baseball, because baseball was the sport I had the issue with.
3. I needed an example of someone who was a good player in ANOTHER sport, yet had a very bad weakness that they didn't let someone else handle for them.
4. Shaq was the easiest comparison.

This is what happens. Shaq is horrible at free throws, yet they don't have a designated free throw player. If he gets fouled, he mans up and whiffs the ball. If it were baseball, they'd get to sub someone in, rather than have to deal with the tactical disadvantage. It's kind of obvious why I would use another sport for the comparison. I hope I've explained it suffuiciently.
 
2013-07-11 11:42:11 AM

Mikey1969: Nope, football has specific offensive and defensive players, it's how the game has been set up. With the exception of ironman football, or a trick play, the game had separate offensive and defensive players, it's the way it is.


like william perry?

or troy brown?

or julian edelman?

or Ndamakung Suh (kicker)?
 
2013-07-11 11:42:58 AM

Mikey1969: Jerkwater: Mikey1969: MFAWG: Mikey1969: Yeah, substituting batters and all that kinda pisses me off... If you can't play both offense and defense in a sport that requires you to play both offense and defense, then maybe it's not for you. Sure, you might be an ace pitcher or a super badass fielder, but the sport is based on you being able to play BOTH sides of the ball.

You do realize it's now the National League that's out of step with the rest of baseball?

For the life of me, I can never remember if it's AL or NL that has this farked up crop...

I think you missed his point.  The AL has the DH, as does almost every other professional baseball league on the planet.  Therefore, the NL is the outlier for forcing pitchers to hit.

Pitchers should have to hit. Every other player on the goddam field has to be able to do both,. What makes these farkrs so special? It would be like being able to take someone like Shaq out every time there was a free throw.


You miss my point, I think.  I'm not arguing on whether the rule makes sense or improves the game.  I'm simply saying that almost every other organized baseball league in the world uses the DH.  Everyone acts as though the AL is ruining the game for using the DH, but they are simply following the convention.
 
2013-07-11 11:44:37 AM
Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.
 
2013-07-11 11:46:07 AM

DeWayne Mann: idesofmarch: DeWayne Mann: skinink: For some reason I'm still surprised that Big Papi outlasted Manny Ramirez' career in MLB. But then Manny is such a jerk.

Manny's three years older, and played two years more. And that ignores that there's a pretty good chance the Rangers will call him up this year.

[nooooooooooooooo.com image 383x263]

In fact, I think if Nelson Cruz gets suspended for Biogenesis next week (as is rumored), Manny will be on the first flight to Arlington.

Or to wherever the Rangers are if they're on the road after the ASG break.


I'm so pissed off right now.  I hate that scumbag so much, I was glad he was gone.  On the bright side, at least he's playing for a team I already despise.  Hopefully he embarrasses himself and retires in disgrace again.
 
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