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(BBC)   Good job ousting your democratically elected leader, Egypt. To celebrate, let's share a toast with these F-16 fighter jets. Cheers   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 136
    More: Followup, F-16, Egypt, United States, mass protests, military aid, fighter aircrafts, unrest, Hosni Mubarak  
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6186 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



136 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-11 07:36:34 AM  
Unf*ckingbelievable.
 
2013-07-11 08:42:43 AM  
it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

No, not while there's money to be made.
 
2013-07-11 09:17:08 AM  
Maybe obama will get another peace prize for this!
 
2013-07-11 09:18:28 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

We'll always have Syria .
 
2013-07-11 09:19:18 AM  

You Are All Sheep: Maybe obama will get another peace prize for this!


Well Morsi supporters will indeed rest in peace after this.  So, why not?
 
2013-07-11 09:20:39 AM  

Barfmaker: it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

No, not while there's money to be made.


What money? The US pays for the Egyptian military. That's WHY the military keeps siding with "the people".... Because as soon as the Arab spring hit Egypt, we flew their generals into Washington and told them we'd stop signing their pay checks and let Israel destroy their cool toys if they opposed the people.
 
2013-07-11 09:21:19 AM  

The Muthaship: Unf*ckingbelievable.


Wut?

It's not even surprising.
 
2013-07-11 09:21:37 AM  

The Muthaship: Unf*ckingbelievable.


Not really, F-16s don't have near enough range to get to the US.   What are they going to do, start a war that makes our military contractors even richer???  Oh noes!
 
2013-07-11 09:22:08 AM  

Alonjar: Barfmaker: it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

No, not while there's money to be made.

What money? The US pays for the Egyptian military. That's WHY the military keeps siding with "the people".... Because as soon as the Arab spring hit Egypt, we flew their generals into Washington and told them we'd stop signing their pay checks and let Israel destroy their cool toys if they opposed the people.


citation needed
/wouldn't be surprised if it was true
 
2013-07-11 09:22:49 AM  

The Muthaship: Unf*ckingbelievable.


What's unfarkingbelievable is that anyone is so naive as to find this unfarkingbelievable.
 
2013-07-11 09:24:23 AM  
Subby is way off base.  Do you know who else spent time in prison and was democratically elected?  A. H.

To say that Morsi was 'democratically elected' and represented the people would be along the same lines as saying Hitler was a unifying force that strengthened the German peoples for the common good.  His election was effectively nullified when he assumed tyrannical omnipotence in 2012.  The people rightfully rejected that.
 
2013-07-11 09:25:10 AM  

CheatCommando: The Muthaship: Unf*ckingbelievable.

What's unfarkingbelievable is that anyone is so naive as to find this unfarkingbelievable.


Now that I've thought about it, you're right.

I mean, if we want an end to a violent dispute in Egypt, sending F-16's should help.

It's not like it matters who wins.....
 
2013-07-11 09:26:01 AM  
Federal employees within the security assistance field better get snapping so that they don't let those pesky furlough days impact the scheduled delivery date.
www.humanevents.com
 
2013-07-11 09:26:37 AM  
On a more serious note, the "democracy" being set up by the Morsi government was going to be a true democracy, which is exactly what you don't want.  There are no free countries that have zero checks and balances against the tyranny of the majority, but that's exactly where the Muslim Brotherhood was headed.  They wanted a theocracy that would have run roughshod over civil rights with the implementation of Sharia law.  Turkey tried to do something similar at one time, until it's military said, "How about no."  I don't see what happened here as any different.  It sounds like they're trying to ensure that everyone shares in governing the country, and that there are checks and balances, like we have here.

We don't just have a legislature that makes laws unchecked.  The President can veto them and the courts can strike them down.  Also, constitutional amendments require 2/3s majorities and 3/4 ratification.  We also have filibusters in the Senate, for good or ill, to prevent the majority from wreaking havoc with the minority.  Though now the latter seems to be working in reverse.  Majority rules is a horrible idea, and Egypt's military seems to understand that concept.  Hence it appointed a judge to oversee the new government.
 
2013-07-11 09:26:43 AM  
Between this and the handling of Snowden, I'm having real doubts as to the Obama administration's ability to handle foreign policy.
 
2013-07-11 09:27:30 AM  
Any officials who use their power to remove democracy from their electoral system deserve to be ousted. It really doesn't matter if they were democratically elected or not.
 
2013-07-11 09:27:49 AM  
President Barack Obama has been careful not to use the word "coup" in relation to events in Egypt, the BBC's Katy Watson in Washington reports, as doing so would trigger the legal requirement to cut off aid.

From Wikipedia:
On 3 July 2013, the military removed Morsi from power in a coup d'état and installed an interim government

See? It's a coup d'etat. It's a different kind of coup. Alltogether!
 
2013-07-11 09:29:39 AM  
This is what happens when you elect someone supported by the Muslim Brotherhood.
 
2013-07-11 09:30:37 AM  

Marine1: Between this and the handling of Snowden, I'm having real doubts as to the Obama administration's ability to handle foreign policy.


For the exact same reason, I've come to the polar opposite conclusion.  Couldn't have handled it better, really.  Let the people of Egypt determine their fate.  Snowden is not worth pursuing him... China and Russia already know this.  So does the Administration.
 
2013-07-11 09:32:54 AM  

KingKauff: This is what happens when you elect someone who supports the Muslim Brotherhood...twice.


Fixed
 
2013-07-11 09:33:08 AM  

Alonjar: What money? The US pays for the Egyptian military.


The US takes the tax dollars and uses it to buy 20 F-16's.
That money is now in the pocket of the guy who owns the F-16 factory.

That money.
 
2013-07-11 09:35:52 AM  
I wonder if they'll even be able to turn on the APU without farking it up?
 
2013-07-11 09:35:57 AM  
US Government to US Citizens:  10 rounds in a pistol is unacceptable!!!  You could hurt someone.

US Government to twice overthrown Egyptian government:  Here, have some F-16s and Apache attack helicopters.
 
2013-07-11 09:36:18 AM  

Marine1: Between this and the handling of Snowden, I'm having real doubts as to the Obama administration's ability to handle foreign policy.


I'd be curious what someone who says this would do in these same situations? What was the proper way to handle them?
 
2013-07-11 09:36:56 AM  

rikkitikkitavi: Marine1: Between this and the handling of Snowden, I'm having real doubts as to the Obama administration's ability to handle foreign policy.

For the exact same reason, I've come to the polar opposite conclusion.  Couldn't have handled it better, really.  Let the people of Egypt determine their fate.  Snowden is not worth pursuing him... China and Russia already know this.  So does the Administration.


Well, no reason to push more weapons into the mix, and Snowden should have been pardoned. The fact that we have a legitimate government whistle-blower going to farking Russia and China to seek validation of his human rights is insane. These are the same people that bill execution victims' families for the bullets and who threw up a wall that went through graveyards in eastern Europe.
 
2013-07-11 09:39:29 AM  
The military in Egypt is text book Bonapartism.  The have seized control of a revolutionary situation from the people.  The United States couldn't be happier.  The last thing the U.S. (or Israel for that matter) needs is a leftist popular government in Egypt.
 
2013-07-11 09:39:58 AM  

vsavatar: Majority rules is a horrible idea, and Egypt's military seems to understand that concept.


If they understood that they wouldn't have displaced the government due to protests in the street.
 
2013-07-11 09:40:01 AM  

rikkitikkitavi: Subby is way off base.  Do you know who else spent time in prison and was democratically elected?  A. H.

To say that Morsi was 'democratically elected' and represented the people would be along the same lines as saying Hitler was a unifying force that strengthened the German peoples for the common good.  His election was effectively nullified when he assumed tyrannical omnipotence in 2012.  The people rightfully rejected that.


I got totally confused as to whom the last "he" was referring to in that statement
 
2013-07-11 09:41:39 AM  

Marine1: Well, no reason to push more weapons into the mix, and Snowden should have been pardoned. The fact that we have a legitimate government whistle-blower going to farking Russia and China to seek validation of his human rights is insane. These are the same people that bill execution victims' families for the bullets and who threw up a wall that went through graveyards in eastern Europe.


See that's what I thought... First, the US arms the Egyptian military which is supporting the free people of Egypt in this mess, not the Islamist extremist tyrant that's been deposed. So you're perspective seems a bit skewed.  As for Snowden, there is nothing legitimate about him and his whistleblowing.  If there was, he'd certainly be pardoned.  He was recruited by reporters with an agenda, intentionally lied on applications for a position to obtain secure documents and willfully divulge them.  That's not whistleblowing, in the least.

He has no 'real' secrets.  If he did, China wouldn't have let him leave.  And Russia wouldn't be about to kick him out.  Again, your perspective is very skewed. Not even slightly.
 
2013-07-11 09:41:40 AM  

Marine1: to seek validation of his human rights


He did it to escape jail. That's a totally different thing than human rights.
 
2013-07-11 09:43:04 AM  

Lost Thought 00: rikkitikkitavi: Subby is way off base.  Do you know who else spent time in prison and was democratically elected?  A. H.

To say that Morsi was 'democratically elected' and represented the people would be along the same lines as saying Hitler was a unifying force that strengthened the German peoples for the common good.  [Morsi's] election was effectively nullified when [Morsi] assumed tyrannical omnipotence in 2012.  The people rightfully rejected that.

I got totally confused as to whom the last "he" was referring to in that statement

 
2013-07-11 09:45:19 AM  
We need to send F-16's to Egypt so Israel can shoot them down with F-15's.
 
2013-07-11 09:46:55 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: vsavatar: Majority rules is a horrible idea, and Egypt's military seems to understand that concept.

If they understood that they wouldn't have displaced the government due to protests in the street.


The protests were the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.  The military deposed Morsi to solve the problem, not treat the symptoms.
 
2013-07-11 09:47:03 AM  
FarkedOver:  a leftist popular government in Egypt.

You think the Brotherhood is leftist? How many times did your mother drop you on your head as a child? More than 40?
 
2013-07-11 09:47:17 AM  

Alonjar: Barfmaker: it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

No, not while there's money to be made.

What money? The US pays for the Egyptian military. That's WHY the military keeps siding with "the people".... Because as soon as the Arab spring hit Egypt, we flew their generals into Washington and told them we'd stop signing their pay checks and let Israel destroy their cool toys if they opposed the people.


The US gives Egypt about $1.3 billion year to invest in US weaponry. The systems require US munitions, repair techs, and servicing in many cases that accounts for many times this amount every year, creates a massive amount of jobs in the US, we get to use them as a stabilizing area in the Middle East and get control of the Suez canal. The use of the Suez canal saves much more money than what is spent by far and most importantly General Electric and Lockheed Martin make an absolute fortune from this.
 
2013-07-11 09:47:48 AM  

rikkitikkitavi: Marine1: Well, no reason to push more weapons into the mix, and Snowden should have been pardoned. The fact that we have a legitimate government whistle-blower going to farking Russia and China to seek validation of his human rights is insane. These are the same people that bill execution victims' families for the bullets and who threw up a wall that went through graveyards in eastern Europe.

See that's what I thought... First, the US arms the Egyptian military which is supporting the free people of Egypt in this mess, not the Islamist extremist tyrant that's been deposed. So you're perspective seems a bit skewed.  As for Snowden, there is nothing legitimate about him and his whistleblowing.  If there was, he'd certainly be pardoned.  He was recruited by reporters with an agenda, intentionally lied on applications for a position to obtain secure documents and willfully divulge them.  That's not whistleblowing, in the least.

He has no 'real' secrets.  If he did, China wouldn't have let him leave.  And Russia wouldn't be about to kick him out.  Again, your perspective is very skewed. Not even slightly.


How he got there means nothing. He revealed that what the government was telling you wasn't the entire truth.

Arms can change hands rather quickly in these sorts of situations... rebels can get a hold of planes that were meant for government forces, etc. Again, no reason to send more dynamite into the shaky mineshaft.
 
2013-07-11 09:48:40 AM  

Alonjar: Barfmaker: it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

No, not while there's money to be made.

What money? The US pays for the Egyptian military. That's WHY the military keeps siding with "the people".... Because as soon as the Arab spring hit Egypt, we flew their generals into Washington and told them we'd stop signing their pay checks and let Israel destroy their cool toys if they opposed the people.


I'll take "why does the US gives foreign and military aid to foreign powers like Egypt" for $500 Alex.
 
2013-07-11 09:49:36 AM  
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
 
2013-07-11 09:51:04 AM  

CheatCommando: FarkedOver:  a leftist popular government in Egypt.

You think the Brotherhood is leftist? How many times did your mother drop you on your head as a child? More than 40?


No. That's not what I said.  What I am saying is that the Egyptian military effectively nipped the revolutionary situation that was occurring in the streets in the bud, by not letting the protests play out into a revolution.  This is what Bonapartism is.  The military did this to keep the U.S. aid from not being shut off.  The military injected itself to stop a more liberal, left leaning coalition from taking control.
 
2013-07-11 09:51:17 AM  
Sometimes democracy just isn't the best system. Especially if your citizens are psychotic retards.
 
2013-07-11 09:53:03 AM  
Damn, there are a lot of people in here who think it's bad to get rid of a leader who unilaterally sides with a group of fundementalists.

I bet they were the same ones who voted for Bush.
 
2013-07-11 09:54:12 AM  

Barfmaker: it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

No, not while there's money to be made.


Partially a money thing... but I would bet you that if there had been a western friendly government elected, then massive protests by Islamic fundamentalists had forced the ouster of THAT president, the US wouldn't be dancing around the word "coup" and sending F-16s over there.
 
2013-07-11 09:56:30 AM  

rikkitikkitavi: For the exact same reason, I've come to the polar opposite conclusion. Couldn't have handled it better, really. Let the people of Egypt determine their fate. Snowden is not worth pursuing him... China and Russia already know this. So does the Administration


But the admin is pursuing him.

FarkedOver: No. That's not what I said. What I am saying is that the Egyptian military effectively nipped the revolutionary situation that was occurring in the streets in the bud, by not letting the protests play out into a revolution. This is what Bonapartism is. The military did this to keep the U.S. aid from not being shut off. The military injected itself to stop a more liberal, left leaning coalition from taking control


i think your crystal ball is broken.

No way a liberal left elaning coalition was going to take over.
 
2013-07-11 09:56:54 AM  

Public Savant: Damn, there are a lot of people in here who think it's bad to get rid of a leader who unilaterally sides with a group of fundementalists.

I bet they were the same ones who voted for Bush.


I don't think it was bad... but it wasn't democratic either. Let's not pretend it was. Democracy would have meant waiting for the next elections to remove the guy from office at the ballot box.
 
2013-07-11 09:59:56 AM  
Hitler was democratically elected... But hey who can argue with that..? Now everyone into the ovens!

// I self declare Godwin
 
2013-07-11 10:01:24 AM  

Click Click D'oh: US Government to US Citizens:  10 rounds in a pistol is unacceptable!!!  You could hurt someone.

US Government to twice overthrown Egyptian government:  Here, have some F-16s and Apache attack helicopters.


State of New York != Federal Government
 
2013-07-11 10:02:24 AM  

Marine1: How he got there means nothing. He revealed that what the government was telling you wasn't the entire truth.

Arms can change hands rather quickly in these sorts of situations... rebels can get a hold of planes that were meant for government forces, etc. Again, no reason to send more dynamite into the shaky mineshaft.


You are literally too stupid and too uninformed to converse with.  The military, that the US supports and arms, is siding with the people of Egypt to oust a fundamentalist tyrant that has removed all democratic function from the government.  What part of that don't you get?

And Snowden's means and intent mean everything. He committed a few crimes which he is now running from.

liam76: But the admin is pursuing him.


You think so?  I don't.  Not very enthusiastically. Do we want him to stand trial, yes.  Are we going to waste a bunch of time and money?  No. And he's stuck in Russia for the time being.
 
2013-07-11 10:04:31 AM  

liam76: i think your crystal ball is broken.

No way a liberal left elaning coalition was going to take over.


Leftist in the sense of anarchists or marxist, certainly not.  Those groups have been persecuted in Egypt and the middle east since forever considering they don't really subscribe to religious belief because of their understanding that it is a tool used by those in power to maintain power and dominance.  BUT leftist in the sense of way more liberal than what the region is used to.  The arab world is VERY young.  This is a very good and potentially revolutionary situation, but I understand that not every revolutionary situations turns into a revolution, it's a main point of Leninism.

BUT what the military did (from a Marxists view) is text book Bonapartism.  They do not serve the will of the people.  They serve the will of themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonapartist
 
2013-07-11 10:04:55 AM  

FarkedOver: The military in Egypt is text book Bonapartism.  The have seized control of a revolutionary situation from the people.  The United States couldn't be happier.  The last thing the U.S. (or Israel for that matter) needs is a leftist popular government in Egypt.


The thing is, by the time Napoleon took over, the French Revolution had very much gone off the rails and turned into The Reign of Terror. He was definitely the lesser of two evils, because the Revolution had turned into something evil.
 
2013-07-11 10:06:08 AM  
Subby: 2 million protest the last guy you were all for it. 22 million this time and you are pissed? WTF?!

/either a dhimmi or full blown death cult member
// you know who else was "democratically elected"?
 
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