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(CBS News)   This is it folks, your last Zimmerman thread as closing arguments start today and....who am I kidding? We're gonna have these threads everyday until Zimmerman's been dead for six years   (cbsnews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, jury instructions, forensic pathologists, murderers, right of self-defense  
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2523 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 9:23 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-11 11:39:00 PM  

Phinn: They are generally people who haven't been conditioned to defer to the government before making any significant decision. Free people, you might say.


Some people like being serfs. They can certainly assume that role for themselves, but they do not have the right to assign it to others.
 
2013-07-11 11:45:11 PM  

Phinn: PC LOAD LETTER: How the fark is leaving your vehicle and following some random person not engaging? Do you really think following people is going to not result in someone misconstruing it and reacting to a threat? Why is this so farking hard a concept?

The law of self-defense defines "threat" differently than you do.  It must be imminent before a threat justifies the use of force.  Why is this so farking hard a concept?

If creeping someone out were, by itself, enough to justify a violent reaction, then I would have beaten the crap out of several Farkers by now.


The night ain't over yet..

*eyes Phin suspiciously*
 
2013-07-11 11:47:25 PM  
Highlights of the BDLR closing are almost as good as sportscenter, dude seemed off his rocker
 
2013-07-11 11:49:54 PM  

Phinn: cretinbob: Phinn: How many electrons have been wasted here, arguing that Zimmerman brought the beating on himself by provoking force against himself?

None. You should have learned that in middle school science.

OK, fine.  Time, then.  Time has been wasted, because there is no basis to even argue that Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself, as "provocation" is defined by Florida law.  Something that some of us have been saying all along.

Can time be wasted, Professor Science?



It seems to me that this entire affair has been a social experiment designed to determine whether a certain sub-group of the population can be provoked into committing acts of civil unrest / violence by falsely portraying the facts of an incident that, were it not for the intentionally inflammatory actions / statements of the media and certain prominent figures (looking at you, Obama) would be unremarkable.

If that is indeed the case, the time devoted to the misrepresentation of said facts will only have been "wasted" if said civil unrest / violence fails to manifest following the pronouncement of a verdict that the sub-group ("educated" not by the facts, but by the media propaganda) finds unappealing.

Otherwise it might be seen as a rousing success.
 
2013-07-11 11:50:38 PM  

Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.


The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.
 
2013-07-11 11:55:35 PM  

JuggleGeek: Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.

The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.


Way to play it. Nicely done.
 
2013-07-11 11:56:12 PM  

JuggleGeek: Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.

The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.


He wasn't. Trayvon chose to attack him, and escalated the confrontation to potentially deadly force by ramming Zimmerman's head into concrete. At no point was Zimmerman a threat to him, he was killed in self-defense.
 
2013-07-11 11:57:58 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: JuggleGeek: Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.

The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.

Way to play it. Nicely done.


It is a favorite tactic of the J4T-ITP crowd to put the cart before the horse, to switch around cause and effect.
 
2013-07-11 11:58:27 PM  

Amos Quito: vrax: Depends on implementation. "You will speak only proper English within these borders!" Both insensitive and racist for a plethora of reasons. Equal access to equal education would be a big one.


Apparently I haven't successfully communicated my message. Language barrier?

Accommodating persons from various cultures is fine - indeed, the unique perspectives of these cultures can positively contribute to a society for the betterment of all.

But would you expect any society to cater, through educational and other government services, to all persons who choose to speak whatever language they choose for life - simply because they reject the idea of accepting a unified language in the nation? Should we require each college to offer courses in psychology, biochemistry, astronomy and geology in English, Spanish, French, Icelandic, Swahili, Russian, Arabic, Hebrew, Japanese, etc?

No, what you are embracing is not only impractical, it is a recipe for disaster - the destruction of the national identity itself, especially because with language barriers come cultural barriers - DIFFERENTIATION - people no longer identify with the nation as a whole, but with their given sub-group.

Thanks to technology, the world quickly is becoming a very small place. NOTHING happens "far away" any more, and if we are to survive as a species, we must not only work toward unity of purpose as nations, but as an entire species, which means that we will have to work toward facilitating greater understanding and communication worldwide.

Nationalism is tribalism writ large, and while tribalistic behavior may have served its purpose in the past, when battles were fought with spears and arrows, today it has become a liability - perhaps the single greatest liability we face, as we now have the ability to fark-up on a global scale.

Unity is the answer, and it is impossible without effective communication.


I think we're shooting past one another a little bit here.  When I say "equal access to equal education" I don't mean all education in every language.  I mean that if we were to implement "proper" English as a national language to the exclusion of others (just one example of a problematic path to your goal), we would first need to ensure the quality and availability of education, particularly language education, is equal throughout the country.  By itself that's an incredibly difficult feat that would only be one of the many, many hurdles to help prevent it from being a de facto racist policy.
 
2013-07-11 11:58:47 PM  

Boojum2k: JuggleGeek: Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.

The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.

He wasn't. Trayvon chose to attack him, and escalated the confrontation to potentially deadly force by ramming Zimmerman's head into concrete. At no point was Zimmerman a threat to him, he was killed in self-defense.


Ypu should have retreated at "gaping chest wound".
 
2013-07-12 12:01:55 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: Boojum2k: JuggleGeek: Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.

The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.

He wasn't. Trayvon chose to attack him, and escalated the confrontation to potentially deadly force by ramming Zimmerman's head into concrete. At no point was Zimmerman a threat to him, he was killed in self-defense.

Ypu should have retreated at "gaping chest wound".


Nah, the truth makes the ITP twitch. It's fun to watch them twitch.

/it was actually a very direct and narrow chest wound.
 
2013-07-12 12:09:54 AM  
ARMPITSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSmedia.al.com

He had we grass on the front of his shoes
i2.cdn.turner.com
 
2013-07-12 12:12:07 AM  

l.wigflip.com

 
HBK
2013-07-12 12:12:18 AM  

Thunderpipes: 99% of Farkers wanted George to burn for a long time. The fact that most people now seem to realize how weak the case against him is shows why this was pushed with the wrong intentions completely.


To pat myself on the back, I've been saying "Zimmerman may have been stupid, but there's no evidence supporting a conviction" since Spring of last year.
 
2013-07-12 12:13:14 AM  

I_C_Weener: [l.wigflip.com image 850x614]


The look on his face just made be bust out laughing
 
2013-07-12 12:14:25 AM  

vrax: Amos Quito: vrax: Depends on implementation. "You will speak only proper English within these borders!" Both insensitive and racist for a plethora of reasons. Equal access to equal education would be a big one.


Apparently I haven't successfully communicated my message. Language barrier?

Accommodating persons from various cultures is fine - indeed, the unique perspectives of these cultures can positively contribute to a society for the betterment of all.

But would you expect any society to cater, through educational and other government services, to all persons who choose to speak whatever language they choose for life - simply because they reject the idea of accepting a unified language in the nation? Should we require each college to offer courses in psychology, biochemistry, astronomy and geology in English, Spanish, French, Icelandic, Swahili, Russian, Arabic, Hebrew, Japanese, etc?

No, what you are embracing is not only impractical, it is a recipe for disaster - the destruction of the national identity itself, especially because with language barriers come cultural barriers - DIFFERENTIATION - people no longer identify with the nation as a whole, but with their given sub-group.

Thanks to technology, the world quickly is becoming a very small place. NOTHING happens "far away" any more, and if we are to survive as a species, we must not only work toward unity of purpose as nations, but as an entire species, which means that we will have to work toward facilitating greater understanding and communication worldwide.

Nationalism is tribalism writ large, and while tribalistic behavior may have served its purpose in the past, when battles were fought with spears and arrows, today it has become a liability - perhaps the single greatest liability we face, as we now have the ability to fark-up on a global scale.

Unity is the answer, and it is impossible without effective communication.

I think we're shooting past one another a little bit here.  When I say "equal ...


Yes, I'm going to have to go with speaking proper English to the exclusion of all others. "English, Motherfarker. Do you speak it?"
 
2013-07-12 12:18:53 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: Yes, I'm going to have to go with speaking proper English to the exclusion of all others. "English, Motherfarker. Do you speak it?"


Si.
 
2013-07-12 12:18:57 AM  

HBK: Thunderpipes: 99% of Farkers wanted George to burn for a long time. The fact that most people now seem to realize how weak the case against him is shows why this was pushed with the wrong intentions completely.

To pat myself on the back, I've been saying "Zimmerman may have been stupid, but there's no evidence supporting a conviction" since Spring of last year.


I couldn't see through the FUD clearly enough to decide so I've hung back on commenting or even starting to make up my mind until about the end of trial day 4. Since then I've seen that Zimmerman has been being railroaded by the media and others.
 
2013-07-12 12:19:17 AM  

vrax: TheDumbBlonde: Yes, I'm going to have to go with speaking proper English to the exclusion of all others. "English, Motherfarker. Do you speak it?"

Si.


Da.
 
2013-07-12 12:21:33 AM  

Boojum2k: vrax: TheDumbBlonde: Yes, I'm going to have to go with speaking proper English to the exclusion of all others. "English, Motherfarker. Do you speak it?"

Si.

Da.


Ja.
 
2013-07-12 12:23:22 AM  

Amos Quito: It seems to me that this entire affair has been a social experiment designed to determine whether a certain sub-group of the population can be provoked into committing acts of civil unrest / violence by falsely portraying the facts of an incident that, were it not for the intentionally inflammatory actions / statements of the media and certain prominent figures (looking at you, Obama) would be unremarkable.

If that is indeed the case, the time devoted to the misrepresentation of said facts will only have been "wasted" if said civil unrest / violence fails to manifest following the pronouncement of a verdict that the sub-group ("educated" not by the facts, but by the media propaganda) finds unappealing.

Otherwise it might be seen as a rousing success.



I see what you're saying, and I agree.  This circus has a certain mass-psych-experiment feel to it.

My default theory for this kind of propaganda exercise is that the main purpose and function is not necessarily to train the populace to perform some specific task (e.g., riot on command), but to reiterate the perennial and never-ending function of the State -- which is simply to reinforce the power of the State.

Obama and Holder led millions of people to believe that the Florida criminal justice system could not be trusted.  Without any evidence, millions of people instantly believed that Florida is corrupt, and without the gentle, wise, guiding hand of the DOJ and its benevolent federal oversight, then BLOOD WILL RUN IN THE STREETS!!!1!1!  ONLY GOVERNMENT CAN STOP THE MURDER-PALOOZA THAT COULD BREAK OUT AT ANY MOMENT!1!!  THE DISENFRANCHISED DEMOCRAT CONSTITUENCY IS ESPECIALLY VULNERABLE!!!!

The public has been reminded of the bogeymen (supposedly) hiding under every rock, and the public has been further reminded that the federal government is the only organization that (supposedly) stands between them and said bogeymen.

And, if Zimmerman is acquitted, then the blame will still fall on Florida.  It will only be further proof of Florida's inability to quell the bogeymen.

Riots will ensue, and the federal government will, once again, have an opportunity to step in, wield its Mighty Pimp Hand of Benevolence and Justice, and quell the murder-palooza that is breaking out.

It's a win-win, for them.
 
2013-07-12 12:24:57 AM  
Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ
 
2013-07-12 12:26:51 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Boojum2k: vrax: TheDumbBlonde: Yes, I'm going to have to go with speaking proper English to the exclusion of all others. "English, Motherfarker. Do you speak it?"

Si.

Da.

Ja.


正しく
 
2013-07-12 12:27:02 AM  
 
2013-07-12 12:27:38 AM  

vrax: Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ


Eww. You 4channed me.
 
2013-07-12 12:31:38 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: vrax: Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ

Eww. You 4channed me.


Well, indirectly.  You'll only break out in hives.
 
2013-07-12 01:04:21 AM  

vrax: Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ


That one has been all over 4chin.

I, for one, found it too tasteless for fark. *sniffs in disdain*
 
2013-07-12 01:08:52 AM  

Elegy: vrax: Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ

That one has been all over 4chin.

I, for one, found it too tasteless for fark. *sniffs in disdain*


You sniff in disdain while I scratch in dispair.
 
2013-07-12 01:09:36 AM  

Elegy: vrax: Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ

That one has been all over 4chin.

I, for one, found it too tasteless for fark. *sniffs in disdain*


It had rainbows.  I suppose you hate rainbows?
 
2013-07-12 01:18:36 AM  

JuggleGeek: Amos Quito: The only "threat" that Martin felt from Zimmerman was to his EGO.

The gaping chest wound makes it hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't a threat to Martin.



Life is full of surprises - sometimes right up until the end.

Had TM suspected that GZ was armed, you can bet that their introduction would have been a cordial, if not polite occasion. Indeed, they likely would never have met at all, because the athletic Trayvon had a remarkable lead, and could have been munching Skittles and sipping tea in front of his dad's TV long before GZ ever made it to the vicinity.

But in spite of the huge head-start in Martin's advantage, he decided not to flee, but to hide in wait to see if that "creepy-ass cracker" had the NERVE to follow after him.

Some ideas are better than others.

I think of those women on the jury, and wonder if they have, over the course of the trial and testimony, pictured themselves in the position of Martin and of Zimmerman, and wondered "what would I have done in that situation"? Certainly they may have imagined that they would have been "creeped out" at the notion of some strange dude in a truck shadowing them. Do you think these women would consider hiding in the bushes, waiting for Mr. Weirdo to show up a rational option?

And what about Zimmerman's perspective? Do you think that the women of the jury may have pictured themselves in GZ's position - punched in the nose, flat on their backs in the wet grass, straddled by an angry, wiry young man who is raining punches onto their face, slamming their head into the concrete and trying to muffle their cries for help by smothering them? Do you think these women have pondered whether, finding themselves in that position, they would have considered using force, even deadly force - by whatever means available - in an effort to stop such an attack?

On the other hand, I have said from the outset that GZ also played a foolish hand. Although I don't think he had any intention of confronting the stranger, I do not believe that he would have had the nerve to leave his truck had he been unarmed. I think that 9mm made him too courageous for his own good.

Like I said, some ideas are better than others.

In spite of the dearth of evidence indicating any malice or ill-will on the part of Zimmerman, there are many people that want to see him "suffer" for what happened. Well, all you have to do is look at the TV. Sitting in that courtroom is a man whose life is ruined. Destroyed. He is hated, haunted and hunted, living in a hell that he helped to create. And this misery will likely continue for the rest of his life.

But if many people had their way, GZ would have been put out of his misery long ago, wouldn't he?

An unfortunate set of circumstances came together one rainy night in Sanford.

Two people made bad decisions.

One died. The other lost his life.
 
2013-07-12 01:31:18 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: Somebody else take this one.


So, when he was walking slowly in the rain, which caused Zimmerman to call the police and then follow him because he was "suspicious", what was it Martin did wrong?
 
2013-07-12 01:38:59 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: You sniff in disdain while I scratch in dispair.


I'd be happy to scratch that for you, and you can take over the sniffing.

vrax: It had rainbows.  I suppose you hate rainbows?


I did find it amusing, in that tasteless style of 4chin. I just don't want another mandatory vacation, or to lose my inline/linking privileges.
And I do love me some rainbows.
 
2013-07-12 01:40:48 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the people arguing follow = confronting starting a fight. If you get followed in public is fighting your first reaction.


THe argument is that if Zimmerman had stayed in is car and didn't follow Martin, none of this would have ever happened.
Remember, a couple of the first witnesses were from the Neighborhood watch and explicitly stated Zimmerman was told, as were all the other neighborhood watch volunteers, not to follow anyone ever.
Zimmerman made a choice to ignore a protocol , rule, whatever you choose to call it, that was put in place for safety purposes. If he didn't have a weapon, would he have still made that decicion? If he weren't on psychotropic medication for his mental illness, would he have still made the same decision? What about the year of MMA training?

They are valid questions that don't excuse Martin for his actions.
 
2013-07-12 01:41:01 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: Elegy: vrax: Alright, I'm sorry if I'm out of touch and this has been all over and is nothing new, but I just saw it and went LOLOMGWTF?!

http://imgur.com/Slor2PQ

That one has been all over 4chin.

I, for one, found it too tasteless for fark. *sniffs in disdain*

You sniff in disdain while I scratch in dispair.



25.media.tumblr.com
The olfactory organs scandalously underappreciated.
 
2013-07-12 01:48:44 AM  

Phinn: OK, fine. Time, then. Time has been wasted, because there is no basis to even argue that Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself, as "provocation" is defined by Florida law. Something that some of us have been saying all along.


That's because the only other person who can tell us what happened is dead.
 
2013-07-12 02:10:58 AM  

Phinn: Amos Quito: It seems to me that this entire affair has been a social experiment designed to determine whether a certain sub-group of the population can be provoked into committing acts of civil unrest / violence by falsely portraying the facts of an incident that, were it not for the intentionally inflammatory actions / statements of the media and certain prominent figures (looking at you, Obama) would be unremarkable.

If that is indeed the case, the time devoted to the misrepresentation of said facts will only have been "wasted" if said civil unrest / violence fails to manifest following the pronouncement of a verdict that the sub-group ("educated" not by the facts, but by the media propaganda) finds unappealing.

Otherwise it might be seen as a rousing success.

I see what you're saying, and I agree.  This circus has a certain mass-psych-experiment feel to it.

My default theory for this kind of propaganda exercise is that the main purpose and function is not necessarily to train the populace to perform some specific task (e.g., riot on command), but to reiterate the perennial and never-ending function of the State -- which is simply to reinforce the power of the State.

Obama and Holder led millions of people to believe that the Florida criminal justice system could not be trusted.  Without any evidence, millions of people instantly believed that Florida is corrupt, and without the gentle, wise, guiding hand of the DOJ and its benevolent federal oversight, then BLOOD WILL RUN IN THE STREETS!!!1!1!  ONLY GOVERNMENT CAN STOP THE MURDER-PALOOZA THAT COULD BREAK OUT AT ANY MOMENT!1!!  THE DISENFRANCHISED DEMOCRAT CONSTITUENCY IS ESPECIALLY VULNERABLE!!!!



Indeed, this seems to be another harsh example of Centralized Authoritarian Government flexing its muscles to reinforce its "alpha male" dominance over the increasingly cowering and subservient States. But if they play it properly, it may also turn out to be a valuable tool for teaching the vulgar peasants their proper station in life.

An obedient populace is a happy populace, right?


Phinn: The public has been reminded of the bogeymen (supposedly) hiding under every rock, and the public has been further reminded that the federal government is the only organization that (supposedly) stands between them and said bogeymen.



Leper messiah.


Phinn: And, if Zimmerman is acquitted, then the blame will still fall on Florida. It will only be further proof of Florida's inability to quell the bogeymen.



Aye, but the offended class will also point their fickle finger at the Feds, insisting that they "should have done more". Of course the Feds will happily oblige this demand, and reinforce their claim as the ultimate arbiter in all matters Constitutionally delegated to the States.

Small power = bad. Big power =  "good", right?


Phinn: Riots will ensue, and the federal government will, once again, have an opportunity to step in, wield its Mighty Pimp Hand of Benevolence and Justice, and quell the murder-palooza that is breaking out.

It's a win-win, for them.



Hey, if you could rig the game so that you win in any outcome, what would you do?
 
2013-07-12 02:29:12 AM  

cretinbob: So, when he was walking slowly in the rain, which caused Zimmerman to call the police and then follow him because he was "suspicious", what was it Martin did wrong?


Well. according to Zimmerman's first report NE-911 call Martin (a person that he had by all accounts never seen before) was essentially doing things that one would normally associate with "Casing out" future burglary targets. Such as not staying on the sidewalk but walking on peoples lawns close to their windows, looking in windows and taking his time while doing so. Black, white or purple that is something that should attract someone's attention if they saw them and raise suspicions as to what they were doing and why. If someone did that to your house would you say "Meh" or would you wonder why someone did that, especially given the rash of burglaries in the recent past with still unidentified persons at large?

Granted this is from the person on trial but it is the very first thing that he said long before anything else had happened and is well within what a NW person might do. There is some loosely corroborating evidence that this is exactly what he may have been doing (not given to the jury) in that he had just been suspended from school for having several pieces of women's jewelry and tools described as "Burglary tools" (actual tools not described that I know of) in his possession on school grounds that he had no good explanation for having in his possession, hence his suspension and why he was in Sanford in the first place.
 
2013-07-12 02:51:34 AM  

Amos Quito: Hey, if you could rig the game so that you win in any outcome, what would you do?


Report the exploit!  After I was rich.

/strong morals
 
2013-07-12 06:09:53 AM  

Amos Quito: cretinbob: Facetious_Speciest: You would rather have people sent to prison when their guilt can't be proven?

That already happens more than you think.


And you want it to happen to Zimmerman.

Why, pray tell?


so the snap judgement he made about the man's guilt can be proven right in the end?

/ talkin to anyone who has a "side" in this thing.
 
2013-07-12 07:00:03 AM  

mayIFark: Torok: fredklein: Evidently, the law disagrees. I think the law is wrong.

It does and I'm glad you agree that Zimmerman should not be convicted. Which laws do you feel are wrong and how should they be fixed? That is the important querstion.

Not being able to use firearm on unarmed, may be a good start. But we all know, as long as NRA lives, that will never happen.

/pepper spray will do the trick.


Pepper spray does NOT always do the trick.

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/10/10/police-tasers-pepper-spray-f ai l-in-calming-man-fighting-stop-sign/
 
2013-07-12 07:07:08 AM  

Cletus C.: Demonrats: Hobodeluxe: frepnog: Hobodeluxe: when within that close proximity you reach for your pocket.

why are you completely fabricating bullshiat out of whole cloth?

nope just going by Zimmerman's own account. he reached for his pocket and when he did Trayvon punched him.

I had two friends in High School that were buying liquor from a prostitute... That is a separate issue, but when they were waiting by their car a group of African American teens pointed a sawed off shotgun at them and asked for their wallets. Their wallets were under the front seat and when they reached for them one guy got shot in the face and the other in the back with bird shot.

Is the physical act of reaching for something, even though you don't know what they are reaching for, grounds that these guys should be let off on lesser charges since they didn't intend to shoot my friends until they acted in self defense from my friends' wallets?

Why the hell would BOTH of them keep their wallets under the front seat of the car?


High school boys aren't known for their common sense, as the whole "buying booze from a hooker in a sketchy neighborhood" thing illustrates...
 
2013-07-12 08:31:09 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Giltric: He doesn't need to fabricate anything in order to be able to use deadly force.

In FL maybe. In other states, like NY, he'd be convicted in a heartbeat. No one wants someone with a gun and poor judgement killing kids.


Well you're comparing it to NY....I don't even think NY allows you to defend yourself. It is one of those curl up into a ball and take it states.
 
2013-07-12 08:43:01 AM  

cretinbob: Mid_mo_mad_man: I have a question for the people arguing follow = confronting starting a fight. If you get followed in public is fighting your first reaction.

THe argument is that if Zimmerman had stayed in is car and didn't follow Martin, none of this would have ever happened.


This is true, but represents too many levels of indirection to invalidate self-defense. The choice to fight was not made here.

Remember, a couple of the first witnesses were from the Neighborhood watch and explicitly stated Zimmerman was told, as were all the other neighborhood watch volunteers, not to follow anyone ever.
Zimmerman made a choice to ignore a protocol , rule, whatever you choose to call it, that was put in place for safety purposes.


All true, but it does not invalidate self-defense.

If he didn't have a weapon, would he have still made that decicion? If he weren't on psychotropic medication for his mental illness, would he have still made the same decision? What about the year of MMA training?

Speculation. Irrelevant.

They are valid questions that don't excuse Martin for his actions.

Actually, only the first two are valid. The rest are speculation, which makes them irrelevant.
 
2013-07-12 08:50:19 AM  
O'Mara starting with the instructions BDLR should have started with, but didn't, and therefore can be called to task for lying about evidence during his closing.
 
2013-07-12 08:56:25 AM  
O'Mara has done enough to shut down the state's case. He should just finish this explanation of the shiattiness of the state's case and sit down.
 
2013-07-12 08:59:43 AM  
Those charts look more professional than the prosecutions powerpoint presentation.

10$ oak tag > 70k a year IT personnel.
 
2013-07-12 09:08:17 AM  

Giltric: PC LOAD LETTER: Giltric: He doesn't need to fabricate anything in order to be able to use deadly force.

In FL maybe. In other states, like NY, he'd be convicted in a heartbeat. No one wants someone with a gun and poor judgement killing kids.

Well you're comparing it to NY....I don't even think NY allows you to defend yourself. It is one of those curl up into a ball and take it states.



The State of New York has benevolently decided to also allow you wet your pants and telephone the authorities for assistance.

They won't respond, however, because of the union rules that keep the 911 call center more or less permanently unavailable.
 
2013-07-12 09:15:23 AM  

Phinn: Giltric: PC LOAD LETTER: Giltric: He doesn't need to fabricate anything in order to be able to use deadly force.

In FL maybe. In other states, like NY, he'd be convicted in a heartbeat. No one wants someone with a gun and poor judgement killing kids.

Well you're comparing it to NY....I don't even think NY allows you to defend yourself. It is one of those curl up into a ball and take it states.

The State of New York has benevolently decided to also allow you wet your pants and telephone the authorities for assistance.

They won't respond, however, because of the union rules that keep the 911 call center more or less permanently unavailable.


I remember the days when the NYPD, EMS and FDNY would rush to the scene and get into fights with eachother over who gets to help the victim.

Now they can't seem to be bothered.

Koch > Dinkins, Bloomberg et al.....
 
2013-07-12 09:16:18 AM  

Southern100: cretinbob: Southern100: Keep in mind if they find him guilty of ANYTHING, even Child Abuse, that's going to open him up to civil lawsuits by TMs family. Only an acquittal on all charges will shield him from civil lawsuits.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 203x320]

Ummmm...no

You haven't been paying attention. OJ was California.  This is Florida. Florida has different laws. You can't sue someone civilly if they're found not guilty (which is the way it SHOULD be).


There's an even bigger difference.

OJ never claimed self defense.  He simply said "It wasn't me".

GZ openly admits that he killed TM but did so legally in self defense.  A finding of not guilty will mean that the jury agrees with that assertion and he will be shielded from civil action.  Florida's far from the only state with laws providing civil immunity in cases of self defense.  In fact, IIRC it is the norm.
 
2013-07-12 09:42:30 AM  
fredklein:  

Being suspicious of a black youth, simply because he is a black youth, IS racism.


Zimmerman was suspicious because Martin was walking around, appearing to be drug influenced, in the rain, and peeking in to houses.  His skin color did not come up until the officer enquired about Marin's race..
 
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