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(CBS News)   This is it folks, your last Zimmerman thread as closing arguments start today and....who am I kidding? We're gonna have these threads everyday until Zimmerman's been dead for six years   (cbsnews.com) divider line 2719
    More: Interesting, jury instructions, forensic pathologists, murderers, right of self-defense  
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2505 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 9:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-11 11:16:53 AM
A Whole Gopher Village

I think the real problem here is the stupid Stand Your Ground law that Florida politicians enacted. Both of the parties involved were stupid hot heads that caused this scenario to evolve into what it is now, but because of the stupid law there is to much grey area to have a reasonable conclusion. More than likely, because of this murky law, Zimmerman will walk.

What does SYG have to do with anything?
 
2013-07-11 11:17:07 AM

Frank N Stein: Can anyone explain why this woman is a judge? She's absolutely terrible and should probably be disbarred


Florida gets to have her as a judge at least until 2019, possibly 2039.
 
2013-07-11 11:17:12 AM

Carth: The Haberdasher: Maybe this has been metioned before, but why is this trial even news. I don't get the infactuation with this trial.

Because you had the President of the United States go on national TV and comment on it  then and use federal investigators look into the investigation.


I forgot about that. This is the biggest non story I can remember. A good example of the ill effects of a 24 hour news cycle. I can't beleive this case is important. And people are so passionate about it. I would like to know why anyone gives a shiat about this case.
 
2013-07-11 11:17:16 AM

Tatsuma: The judge is asking Don West to show where in the law books it says that you can actually follow someone on foot or by car. What the faaaark.


PROVE TO ME ITS LEGAL
'Well it's not in the law books because it's lawful behavior'
OVERRULED


Isn't this the chow hall discussion scene from A Few Good Men?  There is no code red in the manual but there aren't any directions to the chow hall either.  What?  Does everybody just starve?

Totally surreal.
 
2013-07-11 11:17:55 AM

The Muthaship: heili skrimsli: Are you hiding in my office?

I work for the NSA.


Well I guess that should help speed up my next OPM interview since I can just have them ask you about my internet activity.

Tatsuma: parasol: pretty sure this is covered in the constitution/bill of rights? ("right to privacy"?)

No I need you to quote me the exact law to show where its legal.


Because the entire system of jurisprudence and legislation in the United States is based upon the fundamental idea that laws are a list of things you're allowed to do.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:08 AM
fredklein

All a murderer needs to go free is to claim that he thought that he 'reasonably' believed that grievous bodily harm might have been IMMINENT?? Wow. That's one airtight law. No loopholes there.

You would rather have people sent to prison when their guilt can't be proven?
 
2013-07-11 11:18:13 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Hobodeluxe

so now he was crouching behind a 2 ft hedge while talking on the phone planning an ambush?

So now there are hedges there? You said there weren't. At all.


about 20 ft from the T. and they're really short. and right up against the building.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:21 AM

Thunderpipes: Holy crap.

Mistrial right there.

Prosecution can tell the jury that following Trayvon was illegal, and the defense can't do anything about it.



It's not a mistrial until the State argues it.  Maybe they will.  Probably not.  (But, then again, we're through the looking glass, people, so who the hell knows?)

West was not just asking for a ruling in limine.  He was warning the prosecution to watch their step.

The BULLSHIAT ARGUMENT that following someone to report him to the police is wrongful IN ANY WAY may work on television, or on Fark, but it's not an accurate statement of the law.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:22 AM

Phinn: AngryDragon: Elegy: Now the state is trying to keep out self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force as an instruction.

Isn't that what the whole goddamn case is about?!

The confusion is that there are two self-defense statutes in Florida:  776.012, and 782.02.

776.012 is what controls this case.  It says that self-defense is justified when you're in imminent fear of serious injury or death.

782.02 is applicable to situations where an aggressor is in your house or dwelling.

The State is trying to include the instruction about Houses and Dwellings.  It's totally out of place.

And, the judge is too FARKING STUPID to understand the basic rules here.


776.012 requires an affirmative defense, which Mr. Zimmermann decided not to use.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:32 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.


Let it go, man. Let it go.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:34 AM

heili skrimsli: Some day this will be taught in law schools as to how not to run a trial.


Yeah I am serious they will actually just show huge chunks of this trial. This is... I have no words. This is the most ridiculous legal bullshiat I've seen in my life.

Southern100: And (some) people wonder how so many innocent people get sent to jail that are later exonerated 10+ years later.


How many innocents did SHE have sent to jail?
 
2013-07-11 11:18:36 AM

Facetious_Speciest: fredklein

Zimmerman showed his ... dislike... for Trayvon when he referred to Trayvon as part of "these assholes" who "always get away". Someone who dislikes someone is more likely to start a fight with them.

That's a wash, as Martin referred to Zimmerman with (ignorantly incorrect) racial slurs.


Zimmerman referred to Trayvon as an "asshole" after barely seeing him for a few seconds. Trayvon called Zimmerman a 'creepy-ass cracker' after Zimmerman followed him by vehicle and on foot. Looks like Zimmerman was the biased one, calling people names with no evidence.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:38 AM
Police and State of florida apparently want the verdict announced on a week day for fear of peaceful protests and civil disobedience
 
2013-07-11 11:18:40 AM

parasol: tatsuma:
I would ask this judge to please show me where it says that it's legal for a man to masturbate in the confines of his own domicile while watching pornography.
Wait, no law specifies that? Then I would ask that please every single male in America be arrested and put on the sex offenders' registry.

pretty sure this is covered in the constitution/bill of rights? ("right to privacy"?)


Yes, and I'm pretty sure one of those amendments covers walking outside of your own house.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:46 AM

jaybeezey: Mi-5: s2s2s2: Judge Nelson likes is slow. FACT

This meme is BEYOND tired.  I would suggest something else, as this, to me, has descended itself to threadshiatting.

Mi-5 doesn't like the "Fact" meme and considers it threadshiatting: FACT


He'll get over it.
 
2013-07-11 11:18:52 AM

The Muthaship: Facetious_Speciest: Tatsuma

PROVE TO ME ITS LEGAL
'Well it's not in the law books because it's lawful behavior'
OVERRULED

This. How weird.

"SHOW ME WHERE THE LAW SAYS YOU CAN WEAR UNDERWEAR!"

"Uh, it doesn't, there's simply no law against it..."

It's the "Show me where it tells you where the mess hall is in the manual, Marine." angle from A Few Good Men.


bing!
 
2013-07-11 11:19:36 AM

Hobodeluxe: According to George he want back and forth then back again. from his truck, across the "T" to the next street then back to the truck, worked on his flashlight (because he was afraid of going back through that dark area he had just walked through) then went to the T and proceeded to walk down the dog walk until he met up with Trayvon. He was not at the truck when the confrontation began. He was not at the other street. he was down the alleyway. looking for Trayvon and he found him. Nowhere is there any proof that Trayvon left the area and then doubled back


There's proof right here.

7:09:34 - 7:13:41 - George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck; total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.[15]
7:11:33 - Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.
7:11:59 - In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says, "Yes." Dispatcher states, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replies, "OK."
7:12:00 - 7:12:59 - The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[16]
7:13:10 - Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.
7:13:41 - Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.[16]
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 - Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[16][17]
7:16:11 - First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[18]
7:16:55 - Gunshot heard on 911 call.[19]

Zimmerman stays in the same general area in which Martin is running during 7:11:33, yet a confrontation happens over 2 minutes later, and less than 50 feet away. Tell me, is Martin a really slow, nearly invisible walker? Because that's the only way your story CAN make sense.

Your story relies on a "chase" that takes over 2 minutes to go 50 feet! It's farking insane!
 
2013-07-11 11:19:48 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: GZ had a concealed holster and a jacket on. It's unlikely TM would have seen the gun (though there's not a lot of detail on what happened here). SYG's an idiotic law on all levels. TM would have needed to be incapable of running away at all. Confronting a pursuer isn't covered by SYG, but it certainly is good street smarts in many cases. In TM's mind, it's likely he thought this was one of those cases. We all know that if TM killed GZ, he would be in prison for murder right now.


I just don't get how the same people that would argue "walking toward him" justified a deadly response from Trayvon, but that "being beaten up" doesn't justify a deadly response from George, on the basis that "we NOW know the injuries were not deadly(even though medical personnel referred him to a specialist to be sure, as they were, potentially deadly)" when the standard is "reasonably believed injury/death were imminent".
 
2013-07-11 11:19:58 AM

heili skrimsli: Because the entire system of jurisprudence and legislation in the United States is based upon the fundamental idea that laws are a list of things you're allowed to do.


Exactly that's what the law does.

Magnus: Totally surreal.


Absolutely


Don West sounds absolutely defeated right now. Just can't take this bullshiat anymore.
 
2013-07-11 11:20:10 AM
The Haberdasher

I would like to know why anyone gives a shiat about this case.

It's more fun than writing reports or scripting, and it involves all kind of volatile subjects like racism, firearms, crime, etc.
 
2013-07-11 11:20:46 AM

Phinn: Thunderpipes: Holy crap.

Mistrial right there.

Prosecution can tell the jury that following Trayvon was illegal, and the defense can't do anything about it.

It's not a mistrial until the State argues it.  Maybe they will.  Probably not.  (But, then again, we're through the looking glass, people, so who the hell knows?)

West was not just asking for a ruling in limine.  He was warning the prosecution to watch their step.

The BULLSHIAT ARGUMENT that following someone to report him to the police is wrongful IN ANY WAY may work on television, or on Fark, but it's not an accurate statement of the law.


But now the jury can hear that from the prosecution, and the judge will not allow the facts to be stated in the instructions. So the jurors could be lef to believe that simply by following, George commited a crime and can be guilty.
 
2013-07-11 11:21:02 AM
Abuse Liability:
hobodelux
she's being fair. West is all like "you sprang this on us" "this is totally unexpected" when he knows damn well that these lesser charges were going to be asked for. He knows what they could and couldn't try to charge. And now it's the state's problem they weren't prepared?  bullshiat. this is all theatre. they knew. they have counter arguments ready. they just want to appear oppressed

I'd agree - we've been speculating about lesser charges in here for weeks AND have had time to come up with riot contingency plans, too


You know how I know you're both trolls

gee, if being sarcastic makes someone a troll FARK must be a scene from Tolkien
 
2013-07-11 11:21:05 AM

fredklein: s2s2s2: fredklein: Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor

This is immaterial. He reasonably believed grievous bodily harm was IMMINENT. This means it was likely to happen if the assault continued.

If the assault continued, he would have gotten a few more scratches.
If it then continued more, he would have gotten a few scratches more.

That is all he needs to justify the use of deadly force.

All a murderer needs to go free is to claim that he thought that he 'reasonably' believed that grievous bodily harm might have been IMMINENT?? Wow. That's one airtight law. No loopholes there.


I'm going on a killing spree!
 
2013-07-11 11:21:13 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: fredklein: Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor. I think I have literally cut myself shaving worse than that.

when you shave your nose you LITERALLY wind up with massive swelling like that?
you LITERALLY wind up with bruises under your eyes and back of head when you shave?


Well, since a shaving cut results in bleeding (and not swelling, etc), it's OBVIOUS I was referring to the amount of blood.

Sheesh.
 
2013-07-11 11:21:22 AM

A Whole Gopher Village: I think the real problem here is the stupid Stand Your Ground law that Florida politicians enacted. Both of the parties involved were stupid hot heads that caused this scenario to evolve into what it is now, but because of the stupid law there is to much grey area to have a reasonable conclusion. More than likely, because of this murky law, Zimmerman will walk.

/Really couldn't care either way.
//Florida residents brought this on themselves by electing in the law makers behind the law.
///When the riots start, lets just hope there will be nothing left of the state shaped like the male member.


Doesn't the Stand Your Gound law not even apply here?  This is simply straight self defense-the defense is arguing that TM was beating up GZ so GZ had the right to defend himself by shooting TM.  Stand Your Ground would involve a confrontation that wouldn't apply under normal self defense.
 
2013-07-11 11:21:33 AM

Mi-5: Phinn: The provocation instruction is out.

See, this is actual law -- following someone at a distance is NOT PROVOCATION of the use of force against yourself.

How many electrons have been wasted here, arguing that Zimmerman brought the beating on himself by provoking force against himself?

It is endlessly amusing how you discover how the judge is applying "actual law" when she makes a ruling you like or pro-defense, but she is the worst judge and "pro-prosecution" whenever she makes a ruling or decision you don't like.

Makes for entertaining reading and wonderful leaps of hypocritical gymnastics.

/at least be consistent



Thanks for the advice, but your a idiot.

Allowing manslaughter was not a pro-defense ruling, but it was probably correct.  You won't find any comments from me saying that ruling was wrong.

But, yes, wrong rulings get criticized.  This judge has made a few.

Failing to dismiss the entire case, for example, is the main error Judge Goodman has consistently made.
 
2013-07-11 11:21:35 AM

Tatsuma: heili skrimsli: Because the entire system of jurisprudence and legislation in the United States is based upon the fundamental idea that laws are a list of things you're allowed to do.

Exactly that's what the law does.

Magnus: Totally surreal.

Absolutely


Don West sounds absolutely defeated right now. Just can't take this bullshiat anymore.


He needs a redbull to get some wings or a five hour energy
 
2013-07-11 11:21:46 AM

manimal2878: chewielouie: The big mistake the defense made was not having at least one man on the jury. There's gonna be a lot of emotional and possibly irrational decision making in the jury room, and a man would have helped to keep the jury focused on the facts and make logical conclusions.

Perfect Troll! 10!!!!


The post states an abhorrent and sexist misconception, one I disagree with wholeheartedly. And yet, I cannot help but wonder if the prosecution might have been depending on this very misconception to "help" it in the case. But I'm also forced to wonder: how on Earth did they get the defense to agree?
 
2013-07-11 11:21:46 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: KellyX: TM should have stayed in his damn home. FACT

or

TM should have ran home and not confront GZ. FACT

Stayed home? Yes, because that's reasonable. GZ should have stayed home in that case as well.

Ran home? Seriously? If you think you are being chased by a white dude out to get a negro, why the hell would you lead him directly to your home?

Black people's worst nightmare is being killed by white racists*: FACT

*not that GZ was one, but he sure made every effort to make TM think that might be the case.


Then black people need to get a clue.  Black people's reality is getting killed by other black people.  Black people getting killed by white people, racist or otherwise, is vanishingly rare.
 
2013-07-11 11:22:02 AM

I_C_Weener: Child abuse?  Why not littering with a formerly living body?


Perhaps there was a sign on the guy's lawn that said "Dead N- Storage," so technically it wouldn't be littering.
 
2013-07-11 11:22:19 AM
Hobodeluxe

about 20 ft from the T. and they're really short. and right up against the building.

If they're right up against the building, how do they conceal air conditioners? Are these slimline AC units?

I'm just farking with you now. I'll stop. It's not fun.
 
2013-07-11 11:22:20 AM
Can he grab his chest and get a delay?
 
2013-07-11 11:22:27 AM

zeroman987: fredklein: tenpoundsofcheese: Also, if he called Precious instead of the police or a male friend to help him out when he saw this creepy ass cracker, how scared could he have been?

Yeah, because minorities have such good experiences calling the cops. it's not like the cops would hassle him or anything.

I'm hispanic and live in a large city. So when I skulk around your neighborhood and you are watching me, I have the right to leave and then come back and beat you up? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

TM was out of "danger" and returned to "confront" the person following him as testified to by the prosecution's witness. He had no right to hit GZ, and even if he did, he had no right to continue assualting GZ after GZ was subdued. TM escalated the situation by using force that was unnecessary given the situation, and continued to use that force after the threat was neutralized. He was a vigilante and finding GZ guilty will encourage vigilante justice. If TM had done the right thing and called the cops when he felt threatened, none of this would have happened.


Huh.  You want to know how to avoid Martin confronting Zimmerman?  By Zimmerman leaving after calling the police.  Everything after that decision is academic.
 
2013-07-11 11:22:49 AM

fredklein: All a murderer needs


You know better than this. Stop it. We are arguing about this case. The fact that you have to dream up a case before you even start to type tells me you either know what you are doing, or need to be told.
 
2013-07-11 11:23:26 AM

Tatsuma: Don West sounds absolutely defeated right now. Just can't take this bullshiat anymore.


This judge is dangerous teetering on going over from negligent to criminal in her capacity as a judge.

If Zimmerman gets acquitted, it'll be despite the best efforts of this judge in denying him adequate defense.
 
2013-07-11 11:23:31 AM

WillofJ2: Tatsuma: heili skrimsli: Because the entire system of jurisprudence and legislation in the United States is based upon the fundamental idea that laws are a list of things you're allowed to do.

Exactly that's what the law does.

Magnus: Totally surreal.

Absolutely


Don West sounds absolutely defeated right now. Just can't take this bullshiat anymore.

He needs a redbull to get some wings or a five hour energy


He needs a belt of single malt at lunchtime to get back in the game.
 
2013-07-11 11:23:50 AM

fredklein: tenpoundsofcheese: fredklein: Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor. I think I have literally cut myself shaving worse than that.

when you shave your nose you LITERALLY wind up with massive swelling like that?
you LITERALLY wind up with bruises under your eyes and back of head when you shave?

Well, since a shaving cut results in bleeding (and not swelling, etc), it's OBVIOUS I was referring to the amount of blood.

Sheesh.


media-2.web.britannica.com
Harry Houdini just got punched once and died of internal bleeding.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:09 AM

fredklein: Facetious_Speciest: fredklein

Zimmerman showed his ... dislike... for Trayvon when he referred to Trayvon as part of "these assholes" who "always get away". Someone who dislikes someone is more likely to start a fight with them.

That's a wash, as Martin referred to Zimmerman with (ignorantly incorrect) racial slurs.

Zimmerman referred to Trayvon as an "asshole" after barely seeing him for a few seconds. Trayvon called Zimmerman a 'creepy-ass cracker' after Zimmerman followed him by vehicle and on foot. Looks like Zimmerman was the biased one, calling people names with no evidence.


no, zimmerman referred to criminals as assholes.  He did not say "this asshole always gets away", he said THESE. Martin however, specifically stated the man following him was a creepy-ass cracker.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:10 AM
fredklein

Zimmerman referred to Trayvon as an "asshole" after barely seeing him for a few seconds. Trayvon called Zimmerman a 'creepy-ass cracker' after Zimmerman followed him by vehicle and on foot. Looks like Zimmerman was the biased one, calling people names with no evidence.

They were both biased. Zimmerman's paranoia and Martin's racism were both ridiculous, IMO.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:25 AM
Facetious_Speciest:

There is a quote button for a reason.
 
2013-07-11 11:24:25 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hobodeluxe: According to George he want back and forth then back again. from his truck, across the "T" to the next street then back to the truck, worked on his flashlight (because he was afraid of going back through that dark area he had just walked through) then went to the T and proceeded to walk down the dog walk until he met up with Trayvon. He was not at the truck when the confrontation began. He was not at the other street. he was down the alleyway. looking for Trayvon and he found him. Nowhere is there any proof that Trayvon left the area and then doubled back

There's proof right here.

7:09:34 - 7:13:41 - George Zimmerman calls the Sanford Police Department (SPD) from his truck; total time of the call is 4 minutes 7 seconds.[15]
7:11:33 - Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.
7:11:59 - In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says, "Yes." Dispatcher states, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replies, "OK."
7:12:00 - 7:12:59 - The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[16]
7:13:10 - Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.
7:13:41 - Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.[16]
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 - Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[16][17]
7:16:11 - First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[18]
7:16:55 - Gunshot heard on 911 call.[19]

Zimmerman stays in the same general area in which Martin is running during 7:11:33, yet a confrontation happens over 2 minutes later, and less than 50 feet away. Tell me, is Martin a really slow, nearly invisible walker? Because that's the only way your story CAN make sense.

Your story relies on a "chase" that takes over 2 minutes to go 50 feet! It's farking insane!


and yet for over 2 min Zimmerman is on his way to the truck and can't make it zero ft?
 
2013-07-11 11:24:51 AM
This guy for the state is really starting to annoy me
 
2013-07-11 11:25:02 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: zeroman987: TM was out of "danger" and returned to "confront" the person following him as testified to by the prosecution's witness.

Not sure that's what was said in the trial. Regardless, the only witness was GZ. The guy on trial for murder. Totally no motivation for lying.


True, but then what needs to be determined is if GZ's scenario is reasonably possible.  If it is, then reasonable doubt exists and he walks.
 
2013-07-11 11:25:23 AM

fredklein: s2s2s2: fredklein: Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor

This is immaterial. He reasonably believed grievous bodily harm was IMMINENT. This means it was likely to happen if the assault continued.

If the assault continued, he would have gotten a few more scratches.
If it then continued more, he would have gotten a few scratches more.

That is all he needs to justify the use of deadly force.

All a murderer needs to go free is to claim that he thought that he 'reasonably' believed that grievous bodily harm might have been IMMINENT?? Wow. That's one airtight law. No loopholes there.


Yeah, and a man accused of rape can claim that the sex was consensual and hope that the jury believes him.  What an outrage!
 
2013-07-11 11:25:34 AM

The Haberdasher: Carth: The Haberdasher: Maybe this has been metioned before, but why is this trial even news. I don't get the infactuation with this trial.

Because you had the President of the United States go on national TV and comment on it  then and use federal investigators look into the investigation.

I forgot about that. This is the biggest non story I can remember. A good example of the ill effects of a 24 hour news cycle. I can't beleive this case is important. And people are so passionate about it. I would like to know why anyone gives a shiat about this case.


Because Treyvon/Trayvon would look like all of our sons if we had one.  And we played the audio tape of GZ making sure that the non-emergency operator could spell Niger, the land of opportunity in West Africa.
 
2013-07-11 11:25:39 AM

BeatrixK: I got a question:  I could have sworn that, when the HOA president guy was testifying, that one of the talking heads mentioned that the Martin family was suing the HOA, since Zimmerman was head of the 'neighborhood watch at the time of the shooting, and they assert he was acting on behalf of the HOA

Is that right?


They're suing everyone but Santa Claus. And they have a "foundation" started to end gun violence. And a trust for Trayvon (which is apparently where Sybrina gets the funds for her par-tay dresses).

theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com www3.pictures.zimbio.com  theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-11 11:25:48 AM
Another one for the state. Yay.
 
2013-07-11 11:25:57 AM

fredklein: Facetious_Speciest: fredklein

Zimmerman showed his ... dislike... for Trayvon when he referred to Trayvon as part of "these assholes" who "always get away". Someone who dislikes someone is more likely to start a fight with them.

That's a wash, as Martin referred to Zimmerman with (ignorantly incorrect) racial slurs.

Zimmerman referred to Trayvon as an "asshole" after barely seeing him for a few seconds. Trayvon called Zimmerman a 'creepy-ass cracker' after Zimmerman followed him by vehicle and on foot. Looks like Zimmerman was the biased one, calling people names with no evidence.


Zimmerman did not refer to Martin as an asshole or punk, he used those terms in very general terms, at no point did he say 'that punk/asshole' 'this punk/asshole' 'the punk/asshole', he said 'these' and 'they'.
 
2013-07-11 11:26:01 AM

parasol: pretty sure this is covered in the constitution/bill of rights? ("right to privacy"?)


Not in the text. The American legal concept of a right to privacy currently comes from an interpretation of the Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments used in Griswold vs. Connecticut. I happen to think that it should be codified, but for the time being, it is not.

/kind of surprised that they don't seem to have used the Fourth Amendment in their interpretation
 
2013-07-11 11:26:04 AM
Into the blue again

There is a quote button for a reason.

Then use it. Does it fark up your reading if I don't enable everything and use HTML?
 
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