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(CBS News)   This is it folks, your last Zimmerman thread as closing arguments start today and....who am I kidding? We're gonna have these threads everyday until Zimmerman's been dead for six years   (cbsnews.com) divider line 2717
    More: Interesting, jury instructions, forensic pathologists, murderers, right of self-defense  
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2507 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 9:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-11 10:43:06 AM
Judge: 'Don't say trick anymore.'

Tricksy stateses. Their case fell apart after preciousss took to stand.
 
2013-07-11 10:43:22 AM

happydude45: Their worst nightmare should be being killed by other black folk, because they kill a lot more black people than white racists do


Maybe in East New York or Newark, but not in the area that this incident occurred.
 
2013-07-11 10:43:34 AM

TheDumbBlonde: I don't know how you lawyers aren't pulling your hair out right now.


Why do you think Don West is bald?
 
2013-07-11 10:43:49 AM
I'm going farking insane I HATE that judge.
 
2013-07-11 10:44:23 AM

diabloninja: "I don't want to hear the word 'trick' again."

lol umadbro


She's scarred from her unsuccessful hooking career.
 
2013-07-11 10:44:29 AM

TheSup3rN0va: TheDumbBlonde: I don't know how you lawyers aren't pulling your hair out right now.

Why do you think Don West is bald?


Point.
 
2013-07-11 10:44:33 AM
Did the Defense fail to include that Martin was assaulting Zimmerman? If not, they need to get that in there, because it is clear he was.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:03 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: happydude45: Their worst nightmare should be being killed by other black folk, because they kill a lot more black people than white racists do

Maybe in East New York or Newark, but not in the area that this incident occurred.


Note: I'm not saying there are lynchings in this area or whatever, I'm saying that black on black crime occurs in poor black areas, which this was not.  I don't know what the hate crime rates are in FL.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:17 AM

TheSup3rN0va: Into the blue again: PiffMan420: Nabb1: kimwim: He's going to walk. Much as I don't want to see it, he's going to walk.

No one should get convicted of murder on evidence this thin.

The State did a piss poor job presenting their case. Zimmerman is going to be aquitted and we'll all get plenty of lulzy footage from the ensuing chimpouts and rioting.

There's going to be a lot of households with brand new Nikes, flat screen TV's and cases of Heineken when the verdict is read.

The internet is a good place for the racists to show their true colors? I mean if you weren't trying to be racist I don't know why you would choose this wording....

Or he did it for the same reason we all do

/diditforthelulz.jpg


I haven't farkied him racist yet because there is that distinct possibility, that would get him another tag.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:23 AM
Is this not the definition of grasping at straws?

How is is fair to just keep looking for things to charge?  Is it not an admission that you do not have a case?

Why is don west doing this the judge hates him and he is very emotional about the state hiding things
 
2013-07-11 10:45:24 AM

Abuse Liability: Hobodeluxe: Nabb1: s2s2s2: Hobodeluxe: and trayvon had the right to defend himself from a perceived threat

What threat?

A creepy ass cracker was following him, so he felt so threatened, he called a friend instead of the police and decided not to continue on to his father's apartment.

he was still on the path to his Father's apt. and he thought he had lost Zimmerman. The phone call was ongoing. he had been talking to her all evening

So then you admit he was on the phone with her the entire time?  That would destroy your conclusion that Zimmerman "found" Trayvon hiding and forced the confrontation.  No person in their right mind would hide and still be talking to another on the phone (hint: she never said he whispered).  The obvious conclusion to draw from this is that TM initiated contact.  He spoke first and likely walked up to Zimmerman.  Just more evidence stacking up in favor of not guilty


This.
Also, if he called Precious instead of the police or a male friend to help him out when he saw this creepy ass cracker, how scared could he have been?
 
2013-07-11 10:45:37 AM
Now the state is trying to keep out self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force as an instruction.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:52 AM

Hobodeluxe: I never made that claim that he was lying in wait for an ambush. Zimmerman did


Which fails to address the point you were responding to. The point was that Zimmerman did not FIND Trayvon hiding.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:55 AM

lantawa: Regarding totallt inappropriateFederally directed activism and  DOJ intervention in this case:

t seems like we're really starting to get into Banana Boat politics, a farcical apeing of the true rules of law, a blighted law-breaking political landscape of lockstep dogmatic and nonsensical grubbing for more and more money grabs and controls of municipalities and public domains. Pathetic, pathetic dull and stupid creatures of pure, unadulterated mindless narrative.are hard at work. So Sad.

On another note, Zimmerman is absolutely innocent of ANY wrongdoing, and the jury WILL vote for his innocence.  I'll take up to $20.00 bets with anyone that wants to take that bet. (Of course, this pretty much can't be done, since this IS Fark, afterall, but you get my drift). You Obama partisans remember to pop and snap to attention and OBEY those orders that come from the current Death Star Emperor.once this trial is over.  OBEY, I say.  It's what YOU voted for, FFS..


Slept through that whole Teri Schiavo thing, I see.  Who was driving that particular fail-train?

Oh, right...the Republicans.
 
2013-07-11 10:45:57 AM

Tatsuma: I'm going farking insane I HATE that judge.


She's aware this is being televised nationally, right? And that some judges and lawyers might be watching? As well as judges sitting on the court of appeals, and "Administrators" on the Florida Bar Association?
 
2013-07-11 10:46:02 AM
I'll say this again. If by some stretch GZ gets convicted with anything, there have been a million doors left open for appeal, which will cause the conviction to be overturned. Hopefully, he won't have to sit behind bars during the appeals process.

If he somehow walks, I hope he dances in the courthouse square.
 
2013-07-11 10:46:09 AM
Came for the assploding heads of the internet lawyers, leaving satisfied.
 
2013-07-11 10:46:12 AM

Phinn: tripleseven: You'll never convince the Zimmerman cheerleaders.

What about us Due Process cheerleaders?

I have a simple question, and I hope you try to answer it honestly.

Do you believe that there is no reason, based on this evidence, to believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense?  In other words, do you believe that self-defense is not at least one of the plausible hypotheses that could be true, in light of this evidence?


Like I said before, it seems clear that it is reasonably possible that what GZ's lawyers said happened is what happened.  Maybe it didn't actually happen that way, but it is reasonable to think it did.  Therefore, reasonable doubt, and he walks.  The rest (racism, gun rights, blah blah) is just noise and doesn't matter in a court of law.
 
2013-07-11 10:46:24 AM

Tatsuma: I'm going farking insane I HATE that judge.


She is now trying to argue that justifiable deadly force only applies to being in your own home?
 
2013-07-11 10:46:27 AM
Well, no matter how this shakes out, one thing Zim can be happy about is how this whole thing has tainted the careers of both the judge and the prosecutor.  Assuming either one has a job after this, they will be forever known as incompetent and crooked.
 
2013-07-11 10:46:30 AM

AngryDragon: fredklein: AngryDragon:
No.  He had no idea Zimmerman had a gun.
No.  Following someone is not a reason to assault them.
No.  He was reporting to the police what he was seeing and stopped following when it was suggested.
No.  He also assaulted a person (for racist reasons if you believe his girlfriends testimony) and took things way too far.


Unless you can read dead people's minds, you don't know if Trayvon knew about the gun.

While you are technically correct that "Following someone is not a reason to assault them", you don't know what else happened.

As for 'reporting to the police'- some people here are very anal about the fact the was not speaking to 'the police', but rather a 'police dispatcher'. As for turning around, you only have Zimmerman's word on that.

And, again, unless you have additional evidence, you don't know who assaulted who first. You only know what one person testified they heard.


Some people seem insistent that the facts fit their narrative, rather then making their narrative fit the facts.
[imageshack.us image 800x302]

There is no narrative.


On the contrary, this thread (among others) is filled with statements like "Trayvon jumped Zimmerman".

You admit yourself that no one really knows what happened before Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman beating his head in to the sidewalk and getting shot as a result.  That last part is undisputed.  If no one knows what else happened, you know what that's called, right?

Reasonable doubt.  Not guilty.


Um, no. If you lack direct evidence, then you use your brain and look at what you DO know, and extrapolate from there.

We know Zimmerman was chasing (following/pursuing/whatever) Trayvon. Supposedly just to provide his location to the police. The police he refused to meet up with, or to tell where he was. This is suspicious. If you have information for the cops, why wouldn't you arrange to meet them somewhere, and pass on that information? Why "have them call me when they get here"? The only reason for that is because you are still in pursuit, and don't know where you will be, and thus can't tell then where to meet you. In other words, Zimmerman meant to keep following Trayvon.

We know that Zimmerman was armed. Being armed makes people more confident, and they do things- take risks- they ordinarily wouldn't. Like following people around. Like starting fights. because they know they are armed, and can use that weapon if they start losing.

Zimmerman showed his ... dislike... for Trayvon when he referred to Trayvon as part of "these assholes" who "always get away". Someone who dislikes someone is more likely to start a fight with them.

Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor. I think I have literally cut myself shaving worse than that.

...and so on. Each little bit of logic means little, but when added up, it shows a pattern. Zimmerman wanted to get Trayvon. Trayvon wanted to get away. Other people's narratives have them suddenly reversing roles- Trayvon the assaulter, and Zimmerman the poor prey trying to flee. This makes no sense.

imageshack.us
 
2013-07-11 10:47:10 AM

Southern100: Keep in mind if they find him guilty of ANYTHING, even Child Abuse, that's going to open him up to civil lawsuits by TMs family. Only an acquittal on all charges will shield him

Acquittal doesn't shield him. Civil suits have a lower burden of proof. OJ Simpson still lost on his wrongful death suit after he was acquitted of murder.

 
2013-07-11 10:47:29 AM

dpaul007: Tangent: if lawyers are disbarred, and priests are defrocked, what happens to judges? De-benched? Disrobed? (see Nekom's comment above)


I think it's still called being disbarred, though if she's elected then she'd have to be impeached and removed first.
 
2013-07-11 10:47:54 AM

heili skrimsli: Tatsuma: I'm going farking insane I HATE that judge.

She is now trying to argue that justifiable deadly force only applies to being in your own home?


Why is the judge arguing anything?
 
2013-07-11 10:47:56 AM
Judge Nelson likes is slow. FACT
 
2013-07-11 10:48:08 AM
"Im sorry. As he was bashing my head into the concrete, I must have forgotten to ask his age."

In order to get "child abuse" they have to prove that GZ knew TM was under 18. That will be impossible to do. It's a stall tactic by the prosecution.
 
2013-07-11 10:48:13 AM

PunGent: lantawa: Regarding totallt inappropriateFederally directed activism and  DOJ intervention in this case:

t seems like we're really starting to get into Banana Boat politics, a farcical apeing of the true rules of law, a blighted law-breaking political landscape of lockstep dogmatic and nonsensical grubbing for more and more money grabs and controls of municipalities and public domains. Pathetic, pathetic dull and stupid creatures of pure, unadulterated mindless narrative.are hard at work. So Sad.

On another note, Zimmerman is absolutely innocent of ANY wrongdoing, and the jury WILL vote for his innocence.  I'll take up to $20.00 bets with anyone that wants to take that bet. (Of course, this pretty much can't be done, since this IS Fark, afterall, but you get my drift). You Obama partisans remember to pop and snap to attention and OBEY those orders that come from the current Death Star Emperor.once this trial is over.  OBEY, I say.  It's what YOU voted for, FFS..

Slept through that whole Teri Schiavo thing, I see.  Who was driving that particular fail-train?

Oh, right...the Republicans.


You get to spend a night of the box for that one, Pal.
 
2013-07-11 10:48:24 AM

Nina Haagen Dazs: Well, no matter how this shakes out, one thing Zim can be happy about is how this whole thing has tainted the careers of both the judge and the prosecutor.  Assuming either one has a job after this, they will be forever known as incompetent and crooked.


Only by gun nuts and paranoids. I'm OK with this.
 
2013-07-11 10:48:42 AM

Elegy: Now the state is trying to keep out self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force as an instruction.


Isn't that what the whole goddamn case is about?!
 
2013-07-11 10:48:53 AM

Southern100: Keep in mind if they find him guilty of ANYTHING, even Child Abuse, that's going to open him up to civil lawsuits by TMs family. Only an acquittal on all charges will shield him from civil lawsuits.


Not even that will shield him.  The standard in a civil case is lower than in a criminal case (preponderance of the evidence versus reasonable doubt).  See the OJ case for an example of this in action.
 
2013-07-11 10:48:54 AM

indylaw: Southern100: Keep in mind if they find him guilty of ANYTHING, even Child Abuse, that's going to open him up to civil lawsuits by TMs family. Only an acquittal on all charges will shield him

Acquittal doesn't shield him. Civil suits have a lower burden of proof. OJ Simpson still lost on his wrongful death suit after he was acquitted of murder.


You must be new here. The Florida law that states anyone acquitted by reason of self defense is immune from civil action has been cited about a hundred times in the last two weeks.
 
2013-07-11 10:49:07 AM

Treygreen13: tripleseven: No, nothing at all, except you're making the same argument that simply following someone is not illegal, nor any cause for alarm.

Ok buddy.


Isn't that what you're saying?


People are well within their rights to follow someone.
 
2013-07-11 10:49:12 AM

Millennium: dpaul007: Tangent: if lawyers are disbarred, and priests are defrocked, what happens to judges? De-benched? Disrobed? (see Nekom's comment above)

I think it's still called being disbarred, though if she's elected then she'd have to be impeached and removed first.


In Florida, I think judges are 'recalled' and not impeached. Either way, this is her last criminal case. She's moving on to civil from here.
 
2013-07-11 10:49:15 AM
If I were the Judge, I'd listen to both of them and then say, "I find you both to be pissing me off.  I'm using the form instructions...period.  You know.  The ones that have been approved over and over.  If you have to create new ones, I'm denying them.  Appeal me."
 
2013-07-11 10:49:19 AM

fredklein: This makes no sense.


I agree.
(We're talking about your post, right?)
 
2013-07-11 10:49:26 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Was Martin not standing his ground? Why should Trayvon not receive the same protection under Florida Law? He perceived, correctly, that he was in danger.


Martin isn't on trial.
The law doesn't care what he did as it relates to prosecuting him for anything
Didn't you know that?
 
2013-07-11 10:49:45 AM

TheSup3rN0va: She's aware this is being televised nationally, right? And that some judges and lawyers might be watching? As well as judges sitting on the court of appeals, and "Administrators" on the Florida Bar Association?


I don't think she gives a shiat.

phenn: Why is the judge arguing anything?


I KNOW.

heili skrimsli: She is now trying to argue that justifiable deadly force only applies to being in your own home?


Makes no farking sense.
 
2013-07-11 10:49:47 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: GZ should have stayed in his damn car.


everything else aside.....  this is the only thing that I truly think the prosecution has.  It was not illegal for Zim to leave his vehicle. It was not illegal to try to keep Martin in sight...  but I really wish he had stayed in his truck.
 
2013-07-11 10:50:05 AM
Oh calm yourself west go have another stupidity cone with your precious daughters.
 
2013-07-11 10:50:16 AM

I_C_Weener: If I were the Judge, I'd listen to both of them and then say, "I find you both to be pissing me off.  I'm using the form instructions...period.  You know.  The ones that have been approved over and over.  If you have to create new ones, I'm denying them.  Appeal me."


Seems odd to me that its not standard, being its law and all that
 
2013-07-11 10:50:24 AM

heili skrimsli: Tatsuma: I'm going farking insane I HATE that judge.

She is now trying to argue that justifiable deadly force only applies to being in your own home?


There's a certain kind of stand-your-ground setup where that's true, though it's usually called the castle doctrine. Florida's SYG implementation is more general than that.
 
2013-07-11 10:50:25 AM

AngryDragon: Elegy: Now the state is trying to keep out self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force as an instruction.

Isn't that what the whole goddamn case is about?!


No, it's about being able to walk the streets safely at night.

Really.
 
2013-07-11 10:50:27 AM

indylaw: Southern100: Keep in mind if they find him guilty of ANYTHING, even Child Abuse, that's going to open him up to civil lawsuits by TMs family. Only an acquittal on all charges will shield him

Acquittal doesn't shield him. Civil suits have a lower burden of proof. OJ Simpson still lost on his wrongful death suit after he was acquitted of murder.


I think under FL law a self-defense acquittal does...someone posted the statute yesterday. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
 
2013-07-11 10:50:42 AM

fredklein: Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor


This is immaterial. He reasonably believed grievous bodily harm was IMMINENT. This means it was likely to happen if the assault continued. That is all he needs to justify the use of deadly force.

That picture is YOU.
 
2013-07-11 10:50:46 AM

bborchar: It should have been negligent homicide.  Zimmerman's reckless conduct led to a deadly confrontation.  It's not self-defense if you go stalking after someone when you're armed (at least it shouldn't be), but I don't think he meant to kill him.


please insert your evidence of reckless conduct into this blank space --->
 
2013-07-11 10:50:58 AM
Pretty sure folks know were I stand on Zimmerman's guilt, but the judge counting his lawyers to make the argument that they should be able to study case law quickly in a murder trial is farking ridiculous.
 
2013-07-11 10:51:36 AM
fredklein

Zimmerman showed his ... dislike... for Trayvon when he referred to Trayvon as part of "these assholes" who "always get away". Someone who dislikes someone is more likely to start a fight with them.

That's a wash, as Martin referred to Zimmerman with (ignorantly incorrect) racial slurs.

Zimmerman claims he was in fear of his life, but his wounds were minor. I think I have literally cut myself shaving worse than that.

You've cut yourself shaving to a point that exceeds the damage of a broken nose and hematoma about the skull? You're doing it wrong...
 
2013-07-11 10:51:52 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Pretty sure folks know were I stand on Zimmerman's guilt, but the judge counting his lawyers to make the argument that they should be able to study case law quickly in a murder trial is farking ridiculous.


I was wrong, today  couldget more bizarre, and it just did
 
2013-07-11 10:51:54 AM

cmcl: Yeah, it's not child abuse, it's third degree felony murder, the kind of murder that happens while you're committing a separate felony, i.e., the death occurred as a consequence of and while the defendant was engaged in the commission of [CRIME], the crime in this case being child abuse. Argh.


well, I bet he hurt Martin's hands by having a hard nose.
Also, if George had died after the first head strike, Martin wouldn't have had to strain himself with additional beatings.
 
2013-07-11 10:52:12 AM

MFAWG: AngryDragon: Elegy: Now the state is trying to keep out self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force as an instruction.

Isn't that what the whole goddamn case is about?!

No, it's about being able to walk the streets safely at night.

Really.


Agreed. It is terrifying that you can't report a suspicious person in your own neighborhood without having to worry about getting attacked and being forced to fight for your life.
 
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