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(CBS News)   This is it folks, your last Zimmerman thread as closing arguments start today and....who am I kidding? We're gonna have these threads everyday until Zimmerman's been dead for six years   (cbsnews.com) divider line 2719
    More: Interesting, jury instructions, forensic pathologists, murderers, right of self-defense  
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2505 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 9:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-11 10:12:22 AM

Darth_Lukecash: But to say Zimmerman is innocent is rediculous.


I don't know what that word means, but I assume it means accurate.
 
2013-07-11 10:12:27 AM

Into the blue again: Carn: The Singing Bush: I'm not going to say that I think he's guilty or not because it is in the realm of possibility that he may be, but I (unlike a lot of people in these threads) can honestly say I don't know.  I think if justice is served then Zimmerman will walk - there's just no evidence to put him away.

I will also say I'm a firm believer of that old "I'd rather see 1000 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man convicted" cliche.  If you really, truly believe he's guilty, well, you've got 999 to go before you should really be upset.

This.  I think that he is responsible for the situation and obviously the death of Martin, but does that mean he is guilty of a crime?  That's why they're having a trial and IANAL.

This is the sticking point here on Fark, you have the rabid zimmerman did nothing wrong people who think trayvon deserved to die for being a thug, then you have the trayvon did nothing wrong and was shot like a dog. Neither side understands both acted like idiots and no one will ever convince them otherwise. I do think Zimmerman should get something for creating the situation, but that is my opinion.


Actually most "GZ cheerleaders" don't say he did nothing wrong. Both did act like idiots. However, that is what is not at issue. What is at issue is whether TM escalated the situation to the point where deadly force was appropriate. When TM physically subdued GZ and continued to strike him after he was subdued, including using concrete, he escalated the confrontation.

If TM were truly afraid of GZ, he would have returned home and contacted the police instead of confronting GZ and escalating the situation.
 
2013-07-11 10:12:29 AM

NeoCortex42: Sline: Lo and behold, she's allowing manslaughter.

I don't think it should be an option, but from the case law the prosecution cited, it sounds like she couldn't have ruled any other way thanks to Florida law.


Prosecution: We couldn't meet the burden of proof for our original charge, so could we lower please??
 
2013-07-11 10:12:55 AM
CHILD ABUSE? WTF?
 
2013-07-11 10:12:58 AM

Phinn: Although, here's a curious feature of Florida law -- you cannot carry a concealed knife that is longer than 4 inches (unless you have a CCW permit), but anyone can openly carry a blade of any length or type, no permit required.

Yes, that includes swords.


That's true in quite a few places, maybe even most. However, there are some catches. One is that it's a very narrow case of limbo: you can carry a weapon in your belt or strap it to your back or whatever, but you must not hide it and you must not brandish it. You've got to be VERY careful to be as nonthreatening as possible when the thing is in your hands, and God help you if you have to put on a coat but forget to move the weapon outside it.

Another catch is that open-carrying is not a protected class with respect to discrimination. Establishments of any sort can kick out an open-carrier as much as they please.
 
2013-07-11 10:13:03 AM

Molavian: Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

When I walk through the mall with my concealed weapon, am I assaulting people with my aura of being armed?


Are you following someone that you don't know? Then no.
 
2013-07-11 10:13:07 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: Carth: whizbangthedirtfarmer:

Hyperbole much?  I've looked worse after a game of pickup basketball.  It COULD have been a vicious assault (if it is happening the way the alive guy is saying), but I didn't see anything extraordinary.

If you get a broken nose and need to go to the doctor for head wounds after a game of basketball you need to play with different people.

GZ didn't need to go to the doctor.


Sorry he went to a registered nurse as was required to return to work.
 
2013-07-11 10:13:07 AM
They are trying to get him under 'Child Abuse'??


What a farking asshole.
 
2013-07-11 10:13:16 AM

keenerb: Sline: Lo and behold, she's allowing manslaughter.

You can't have "Zimmermans Laughter" without "manslaughter".


mind = blown
 
2013-07-11 10:13:24 AM
Child abuse?  Seriously?
 
2013-07-11 10:13:30 AM

Hobodeluxe: and why did he feel the need to defend himself?


Rage against the white man. I think it was more of a desire. We know there was no need for the attack.
 
2013-07-11 10:13:51 AM
CHILD ABUSE?

Really?

They want to make sure SOMETHING sticks to the wall don't they?
 
2013-07-11 10:13:59 AM
Seriously? Child abuse? They are just farking with him at this point right?
 
2013-07-11 10:14:00 AM

Hobodeluxe: ChaosStar: Can't watch the trial due to web filters
TotalFARK ends today
Can't load a program on my computer due to imposed driver restrictions

It's going to be a sucky Thursday

just think of all those people who can't surf the internet all day at work and be thankful that you can at least sit in the air conditioning and socialize.


perhaps they should have gotten a better education

/first world problems
 
2013-07-11 10:14:03 AM

Hobodeluxe: Nabb1: Hobodeluxe: Fark It: Darth_Lukecash: If Zimmerman had been killed by Trayvon, would he not actually been in self defense? After all, Zimmerman had a gun and was following him!

Well, Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman had a gun until he started beating his head into the concrete.  So is it self defense to attack somebody who is following you?  Is 'following' a crime?

if it provokes a reasonable fear of imminent harm then yes. do you think being followed in the dark and the rain (after you tried to engage the man in conversation while he was in his vehicle) then suddenly confronted in a dark alley after you thought you had avoided a confrontation with him would provoke a fear? What if after you ask him why he's following you he very quickly reaches for his pocket?? (Zimmerman said it was his phone but it could have just as easily been a weapon) Do you think you have the right to punch this guy and keep him from reaching what you think is his weapon? He hasn't identified himself or his intentions. And lets remember when this initiated Trayvon was on the phone. Zimmerman refused to meet the cops back at his truck and told them to call him and he would tell them where he was at. So Zimmerman's story about being ambushed doesn't make sense. If you were hiding and trying to be quiet so you could ambush someone you wouldn't be talking to someone on the phone. Zimmerman ignored all his training. He ignored the instructions by the dispatcher. He profiled and convicted Martin in his mind. To George this was the burglar. And he was going to be the hero and not let him get away this time.

Erroneous statements of the law aside, you speculate about facts not in evidence quite imaginatively.

no I didn't. all those are facts.


Your legal conclusion is still deeply flawed even if the facts were accurate as you painted them.
 
2013-07-11 10:14:17 AM
Hobodeluxe

all those are facts.

When was it established as a fact that Zimmerman confronted Martin? Because no one in the trial has suggested that...rather the opposite.
 
2013-07-11 10:14:19 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.


No, you don't have the right to attack people on the basis that they're following you.

Yeah well, apparently that wasn't all Trayvon was trying to do. Nothing prevented him from going inside with his snacks.
 
2013-07-11 10:14:34 AM
We would like to add 'Wearing White After Labor Day' to the list of charges, Ms. Judge.
 
2013-07-11 10:14:35 AM

cookiefleck: Judge allows manslaughter


She's desperate to have him found guilty of something.
 
2013-07-11 10:14:38 AM
Lol at HLN, for having screenshots of the Zimmerman trial on one side and a commercial for "The Butler"  on the other
 
2013-07-11 10:14:45 AM

Hobodeluxe: and trayvon had the right to defend himself from a perceived threat


What threat?
 
2013-07-11 10:15:04 AM

See You Next Tuesday: SpankMeJohnny: Nabb1: I half expect the judge to do the state's closing argument herself.

Nailed it. This woman is doing everything in her power to ensure that the man who killed Obama's son is found guilty of something.

Oh, goody, yet another "Johnny" troll.


you're in a johnny thread!

shirtoid.com

/hope you enjoyed the ride!
 
2013-07-11 10:15:06 AM
whizbangthedirtfarmer:
Hyperbole much?  I've looked worse after a game of pickup basketball.  It COULD have been a vicious assault (if it is happening the way the alive guy is saying), but I didn't see anything extraordinary.

So reasonable doubt then.  Not guilty.
 
2013-07-11 10:15:06 AM
Ok so if TM was fearful for his life while from ZImmerman following him, why didnt he hang up with Jaba and call the police?
 
2013-07-11 10:15:09 AM
KellyX: Sorry, if someone was on top of me beating my head against the sidewalk and I was carrying, they'd be shoot too...

certainly, me too - and if i was a member of crime watch i'd have followed their guidelines - oh wait! I AM and I DO.  Do note, I've never argued GZ wasn't within his right to defend himself but, as many have posted in here? He made some stupid choices (as did TM) leading up to his need to shoot.
 
2013-07-11 10:15:09 AM

chewielouie: The big mistake the defense made was not having at least one man on the jury. There's gonna be a lot of emotional and possibly irrational decision making in the jury room, and a man would have helped to keep the jury focused on the facts and make logical conclusions.


7/10  You've had some practice, but you still need work...
 
2013-07-11 10:15:39 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Trayvon shouldn't have assaulted Zimmerman, and died because of it. But to say Zimmerman is innocent is rediculous. He purposely injected himself into a dangerous situation. Probably because he had that happy warm gun toting superiority that comes with the second amendment.


Cry moar......Zimmerman is INNOCENT. Cry! Cry, little crybaby.....ans stop saying rediculous statements.
 
2013-07-11 10:15:40 AM

zeroman987: Into the blue again: Carn: The Singing Bush: I'm not going to say that I think he's guilty or not because it is in the realm of possibility that he may be, but I (unlike a lot of people in these threads) can honestly say I don't know.  I think if justice is served then Zimmerman will walk - there's just no evidence to put him away.

I will also say I'm a firm believer of that old "I'd rather see 1000 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man convicted" cliche.  If you really, truly believe he's guilty, well, you've got 999 to go before you should really be upset.

This.  I think that he is responsible for the situation and obviously the death of Martin, but does that mean he is guilty of a crime?  That's why they're having a trial and IANAL.

This is the sticking point here on Fark, you have the rabid zimmerman did nothing wrong people who think trayvon deserved to die for being a thug, then you have the trayvon did nothing wrong and was shot like a dog. Neither side understands both acted like idiots and no one will ever convince them otherwise. I do think Zimmerman should get something for creating the situation, but that is my opinion.

Actually most "GZ cheerleaders" don't say he did nothing wrong. Both did act like idiots. However, that is what is not at issue. What is at issue is whether TM escalated the situation to the point where deadly force was appropriate. When TM physically subdued GZ and continued to strike him after he was subdued, including using concrete, he escalated the confrontation.

If TM were truly afraid of GZ, he would have returned home and contacted the police instead of confronting GZ and escalating the situation.


Again, between their first encounter and what is it 2 minutes before the first witness we do not know what happened. But we do know that TM had the upper hand when he was shot. Based on the evidence presented GZ should NEVER have been charged with murder 2. Period.
 
2013-07-11 10:15:54 AM

s2s2s2: PC LOAD LETTER: I don't agree with the bolded part.

You did, before.


I meant it was physically possible. But why would you do that if you think some nutter is following you? Maybe they wouldn't see where you live. But if they do and they want to do harm, well...
 
2013-07-11 10:16:13 AM

TheDumbBlonde: CHILD ABUSE? WTF?


Prosecution:  We'd like the jury to be instructed on the lesser included offense of The Kitchen Sink, a felony of the 2nd degree.

Judge:  I'll allow it.
 
2013-07-11 10:16:19 AM
Child abuse?
 
2013-07-11 10:16:22 AM

Funkyourdaughter: Ok so if TM was fearful for his life while from ZImmerman following him, why didnt he hang up with Jaba and call the police?


911 is a joke.
 
2013-07-11 10:16:33 AM

Headso: Molavian: you people

who are you calling "you people"?


www.miserableretailslave.com
 
2013-07-11 10:16:38 AM

s2s2s2: Hobodeluxe: and trayvon had the right to defend himself from a perceived threat

What threat?


A creepy ass cracker was following him, so he felt so threatened, he called a friend instead of the police and decided not to continue on to his father's apartment.
 
2013-07-11 10:16:42 AM

Funkyourdaughter: Ok so if TM was fearful for his life while from ZImmerman following him, why didnt he hang up with Jaba and call the police?


Because of her sexy voice
 
2013-07-11 10:16:51 AM
I don't believe in Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-11 10:17:03 AM

NeoCortex42: Sline: Lo and behold, she's allowing manslaughter.

I don't think it should be an option, but from the case law the prosecution cited, it sounds like she couldn't have ruled any other way thanks to Florida law.


Word. I was under the misapprehension that it was in there all along...

Anyway, the state is now talking about 3rd degree murder for the second lesser charge. No talk of aggravated assault.

He's throwing around the term child abuse as it relates to 3rd degree murder. Citing precedents...
 
2013-07-11 10:17:17 AM

The Muthaship: parasol: I have a question and would, if possible, like an answer from someone who knows and with a minimum of snark...

If someone (i know, i know GZ will never be found guilty of anything because blah, blah) is found guilty of homicide/manslaughter (i know, I know, GZ never committed either because blah,blah) are they ever allowed to legally have a CCW permit again?

Just curious what the law is (I know, I know, GZ will never not have a legal permit because, blah, blah)

Tx

No.  A felony of any kind generally results in the loss of gun ownership privileges rights.  A felony conviction often leads to the suspense of some of your civil rights.  Which you can ask to be restored.  A CCW is a privilege that the state can suspend for reasonable cause such as a felony conviction of any kind, a misdemeanor conviction of some type of violent crime.


FTFY
 
2013-07-11 10:17:24 AM
invol manslaughter 3-5 year sentance
 
2013-07-11 10:17:57 AM

parasol: KellyX: Sorry, if someone was on top of me beating my head against the sidewalk and I was carrying, they'd be shoot too...

certainly, me too - and if i was a member of crime watch i'd have followed their guidelines - oh wait! I AM and I DO.  Do note, I've never argued GZ wasn't within his right to defend himself but, as many have posted in here? He made some stupid choices (as did TM) leading up to his need to shoot.


Oh yeah? Well that's just, like...your opinion, man
 
2013-07-11 10:18:19 AM

Into the blue again: Prosecution: We couldn't meet the burden of proof for our original charge, so could we lower please??


Southern100: CHILD ABUSE?

Really?

They want to make sure SOMETHING sticks to the wall don't they?



If convicted he will have one hell of an appeal.
 
2013-07-11 10:18:20 AM

probesport: I don't believe in Zimmerman.


not clapping hard enough
 
2013-07-11 10:18:26 AM

The Muthaship: TheDumbBlonde: CHILD ABUSE? WTF?

Prosecution:  We'd like the jury to be instructed on the lesser included offense of The Kitchen Sink, a felony of the 2nd degree.

Judge:  I'll allow it.


lol
 
2013-07-11 10:18:40 AM
Regarding totallt inappropriateFederally directed activism and  DOJ intervention in this case:

t seems like we're really starting to get into Banana Boat politics, a farcical apeing of the true rules of law, a blighted law-breaking political landscape of lockstep dogmatic and nonsensical grubbing for more and more money grabs and controls of municipalities and public domains. Pathetic, pathetic dull and stupid creatures of pure, unadulterated mindless narrative.are hard at work. So Sad.

On another note, Zimmerman is absolutely innocent of ANY wrongdoing, and the jury WILL vote for his innocence.  I'll take up to $20.00 bets with anyone that wants to take that bet. (Of course, this pretty much can't be done, since this IS Fark, afterall, but you get my drift). You Obama partisans remember to pop and snap to attention and OBEY those orders that come from the current Death Star Emperor.once this trial is over.  OBEY, I say.  It's what YOU voted for, FFS..
 
2013-07-11 10:18:44 AM

Magnus: FTFY


Thanks, that was poorly worded on my part.
 
2013-07-11 10:18:46 AM
Did Zimmerman jaywalk at any point during the incident? Maybe they can give him 15 years for that. Wait... I guess he was guilty of littering. Maybe they will convict him of that.
 
2013-07-11 10:18:47 AM

s2s2s2: tripleseven: Yeah, people have NO RIGHT to be in the streets or anything.

So then we agree, George had a right to get out of his car. Thank you.


I'm never going to convince you, but, lets look at reality:

There is a vast difference between walking down the street, and following another human being.
 
2013-07-11 10:19:00 AM
'If the Court will, we would like to add 'Ironically Wearing Sunglasses At Night' to the list of charges'
 
2013-07-11 10:19:14 AM

probesport: I don't believe in Zimmerman.


He is a lot like the tooth fairy in that regard.
 
2013-07-11 10:19:31 AM
Is this where I leave my daily "subtract one fat, insecure loser with a gun from the situation and nobody dies" post?
 
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