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(CBS News)   This is it folks, your last Zimmerman thread as closing arguments start today and....who am I kidding? We're gonna have these threads everyday until Zimmerman's been dead for six years   (cbsnews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, jury instructions, forensic pathologists, murderers, right of self-defense  
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2524 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 9:23 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



2716 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-07-11 09:32:04 AM  

Nabb1: I half expect the judge to do the state's closing argument herself.


Nailed it. This woman is doing everything in her power to ensure that the man who killed Obama's son is found guilty of something.
 
2013-07-11 09:32:25 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.


No.  He had no idea Zimmerman had a gun.
No.  Following someone is not a reason to assault them.
No.  He was reporting to the police what he was seeing and stopped following when it was suggested.
No.  He also assaulted a person (for racist reasons if you believe his girlfriends testimony) and took things way too far.

That help?
 
2013-07-11 09:33:07 AM  

Nabb1: kimwim: He's going to walk. Much as I don't want to see it, he's going to walk.

No one should get convicted of murder on evidence this thin.


Yeah, he should have gotten negligent homicide. He's going to walk.  Terrible case. And Precious wrecked what was left of it on day one. 

On the other hand, she served as a valuable reminder of how pathetic our public education system is.
 
2013-07-11 09:33:38 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?


For the millionth time, this does not matter under the law.  The evidence established Trayvon Martin had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating him when he got shot.  Following someone for a few minutes because you believe them to be a criminal, even if you are wrong, is not against the law.  Period.

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

Martin escalated the situation even more when he was punching Zimmerman in the face.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.

And if he had kept on going and gone inside, that's exactly what would have happened.
 
2013-07-11 09:33:39 AM  

dittybopper: Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.

"I misunderstand what actually happened, and I make suppositions that support my misunderstandings".

FTFY.



So it your mind what happened?
 
2013-07-11 09:33:53 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: I'm just waiting for the riots, cause I've been eying this sweet looking 60' LED TV recently


I'm not really feeling it. I think I'll just riot at Walmart for a bit, maybe pick up some alpo, Mr. Clean, and paper towels.
 
2013-07-11 09:34:15 AM  

SpankMeJohnny: Nabb1: I half expect the judge to do the state's closing argument herself.

Nailed it. This woman is doing everything in her power to ensure that the man who killed Obama's son is found guilty of something.


Oh, goody, yet another "Johnny" troll.
 
2013-07-11 09:34:16 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?


Not with physical violence.
 
2013-07-11 09:34:42 AM  
Nabb1:
They just want to give the jury something to stick him with to save face and avoid riots.  If Zimmerman acted in self defense, that excludes murder, manslaughter and aggravated assault (talk about grasping at straws).  I guess their whole case was built upon throwing shiat against the wall and seeing if anything sticks, so they may as well ask the jury to do the same.

I suppose, but it's still stupid.  I want him to be guilty of something too, I don't care for him at all but he simply is NOT guilty of a crime.
 
2013-07-11 09:34:46 AM  

kimwim: He's going to walk. Much as I don't want to see it, he's going to walk.


I've had the same OJ-like feeling. Still, maybe the people of Florida will lean toward prosecution instead of defense.
 
2013-07-11 09:34:59 AM  
So, are Latinos supposed to riot if he's convicted, and blacks if he's not?

/lives in Florida

//not worried about it
 
2013-07-11 09:35:08 AM  
O'Mara the ass man and other trial cuties:
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-11 09:35:47 AM  
Then the civil suits against all those who falsified his arrest warrant just to pacify the dark skinned people will begin.
 
2013-07-11 09:36:07 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?


When I walk through the mall with my concealed weapon, am I assaulting people with my aura of being armed?
 
2013-07-11 09:36:10 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.


Trayvon had ample time to go home. He chose to see why the creepy ass cracker was following him. Following someone is not a crime. You can not assault someone for following you. Cleared up now?
 
2013-07-11 09:36:13 AM  

tripleseven: They should have gone with manslaughter.



Legal question for you -- Does self-defense also negate a manslaughter allegation?
 
2013-07-11 09:36:36 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: I'm betting on the defense trying to draw things out as much as possible today so they don't have to present their closing argument until Friday morning.


I think they decided yesterday evening that the defense would close Friday morning.
 
2013-07-11 09:36:38 AM  
The big mistake the defense made was not having at least one man on the jury. There's gonna be a lot of emotional and possibly irrational decision making in the jury room, and a man would have helped to keep the jury focused on the facts and make logical conclusions.
 
2013-07-11 09:37:02 AM  

the_rev: IdBeCrazyIf: I'm just waiting for the riots, cause I've been eying this sweet looking 60' LED TV recently

I'm not really feeling it. I think I'll just riot at Walmart for a bit, maybe pick up some alpo, Mr. Clean, and paper towels.


Or you could do this!
 
2013-07-11 09:37:17 AM  

ChaosStar: Can't watch the trial due to web filters
TotalFARK ends today
Can't load a program on my computer due to imposed driver restrictions

It's going to be a sucky Thursday


You don't have a smartphone?
 
2013-07-11 09:37:54 AM  

chewielouie: The big mistake the defense made was not having at least one man on the jury. There's gonna be a lot of emotional and possibly irrational decision making in the jury room, and a man would have helped to keep the jury focused on the facts and make logical conclusions.


Yes, and bears will also be attracted to the scent of the jury room, and possibly kill the jurors.
 
2013-07-11 09:37:54 AM  

Phinn: tripleseven: They should have gone with manslaughter.

Legal question for you -- Does self-defense also negate a manslaughter allegation?


Isn't that was they are set to argue at 945? Whether the jury instructions will include lesser charges.
 
2013-07-11 09:38:02 AM  
So subby is saying Zimmerman will get the death penalty, because Florida...... Awesome. cheaper than his 5 years of free room and board in taxpayer subsidized male on male 24 hour sex emporium.

/Minus the bazillion appeals of course.
 
2013-07-11 09:38:39 AM  
I'm the last Zimmerman thread? Cool!
 
2013-07-11 09:38:41 AM  
This should be good
 
2013-07-11 09:38:53 AM  
There was an article that said when the judge had done badgering Zimmerman (before she gave him more time) he asked he attorney "where's the marijuana?"

My guess is he was told "already in the record, we will hammer it in closing".
 
2013-07-11 09:39:13 AM  

chewielouie: The big mistake the defense made was not having at least one man on the jury. There's gonna be a lot of emotional and possibly irrational decision making in the jury room, and a man would have helped to keep the jury focused on the facts and make logical conclusions.


3/10: I was actually halfway through your comment before I spit my coffee out in hysterical laughter.
 
2013-07-11 09:39:29 AM  

ChaosStar: Can't watch the trial due to web filters
TotalFARK ends today
Can't load a program on my computer due to imposed driver restrictions

It's going to be a sucky Thursday


The password is "aphids2243"
 
2013-07-11 09:40:41 AM  

Nabb1: Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

For the millionth time, this does not matter under the law.  The evidence established Trayvon Martin had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating him when he got shot.  Following someone for a few minutes because you believe them to be a criminal, even if you are wrong, is not against the law.  Period.

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

Martin escalated the situation even more when he was punching Zimmerman in the face.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.

And if he had kept on going and gone inside, that's exactly what would have happened.


And let's be clear. If he had gone straight home, instead of hanging out for 30 minutes, he would have NEVER even been seen by Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-11 09:41:01 AM  
Your an idiot, subby.
 
2013-07-11 09:41:15 AM  

chewielouie: The big mistake the defense made was not having at least one man on the jury. There's gonna be a lot of emotional and possibly irrational decision making in the jury room, and a man would have helped to keep the jury focused on the facts and make logical conclusions.


Also, just imagine how dangerous it's gonna be when everything is done and they all go driving off.
 
2013-07-11 09:42:43 AM  

Carth: Phinn: tripleseven: They should have gone with manslaughter.

Legal question for you -- Does self-defense also negate a manslaughter allegation?

Isn't that was they are set to argue at 945? Whether the jury instructions will include lesser charges.



That's a separate question.

Today they are arguing whether the evidence is sufficient to justify asking the jury to consider both murder and manslaughter convictions as possible verdicts.  Some cases are either murder or nothing.  Some cases could be one or the other, depending on the jury's interpretation of the evidence as to the defendant's mental state.

My question is different -- If a defendant successfully asserts self-defense, and he's facing both murder and manslaughter charges, does self-defense negate both of those charges?
 
2013-07-11 09:43:14 AM  
I find both "sides" of this argument so distasteful that I hope the jury somehow manages to reach a verdict that enrages both "sides".
 
2013-07-11 09:44:04 AM  
Zimmerman will be back protecting the streets of his apartment complex by lunchtime tomorrow.

Maybe he'll stop by 7-11 to pick up a cool drink and a snack before he starts his shift as a proud defender of freedom.
 
2013-07-11 09:44:25 AM  

jso2897: I find both "sides" of this argument so distasteful that I hope the jury somehow manages to reach a verdict that enrages both "sides".


Mistrial would do that.
 
2013-07-11 09:44:52 AM  

dittybopper: Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.

"I misunderstand what actually happened, and I make suppositions that support my misunderstandings".

FTFY.


If Zimmerman had been killed by Trayvon, would he not actually been in self defense? After all, Zimmerman had a gun and was following him!

Had Zimmerman just called it in, and stayed in the car, no one would have been killed.

Had Trayvon just gone back to his dads place, he'd been fine.

But you had two farking hotheads who brought this avoidable situation to a head. One paid for it with his life. What will happen to the other, will be seen soon.
 
2013-07-11 09:45:05 AM  

s2s2s2: Nabb1: Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

For the millionth time, this does not matter under the law.  The evidence established Trayvon Martin had Zimmerman on the ground and was beating him when he got shot.  Following someone for a few minutes because you believe them to be a criminal, even if you are wrong, is not against the law.  Period.

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

Martin escalated the situation even more when he was punching Zimmerman in the face.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.

And if he had kept on going and gone inside, that's exactly what would have happened.

And let's be clear. If he had gone straight home, instead of hanging out for 30 minutes, he would have NEVER even been seen by Zimmerman.


Agreed, but if one thinks some white dude is stalking you because you are black, why would you let them know where you live? TM should have just hid until GZ went away. GZ should have stayed in his damn car.
 
2013-07-11 09:45:44 AM  

TOSViolation: Your an idiot, subby.


If you are going to make a joke, please use the correct joke.


Your a idiot
 
2013-07-11 09:45:47 AM  
T-Minus 120 hrs until Televisions and sneakers feel the wrath of a 'not guilty' verdict.
 
2013-07-11 09:46:00 AM  

ChaosStar: kimwim: ChaosStar: You don't want to see justice done?

I do. According to the laws of the state, he will be a free man when this is over, that is, he won't be in jail. Whether he'll be free in his mind is another matter.

kimwim: Much as I don't want to see it, he's going to walk.

You're confusing my friend.


Who is your friend, and why is he confused?
 
2013-07-11 09:46:08 AM  

MyRandomName: jso2897: I find both "sides" of this argument so distasteful that I hope the jury somehow manages to reach a verdict that enrages both "sides".

Mistrial would do that.


A mistrial wouldn't enrage me, in fact I think it's in order, as are sanctions and bar complaints.
 
2013-07-11 09:46:14 AM  

jso2897: I find both "sides" of this argument so distasteful that I hope the jury somehow manages to reach a verdict that enrages both "sides".


Guilty of aggravated assault with a firearm, sentenced to time served.
 
2013-07-11 09:46:35 AM  

ChaosStar: Can't watch the trial due to web filters
TotalFARK ends today
Can't load a program on my computer due to imposed driver restrictions

It's going to be a sucky Thursday


just think of all those people who can't surf the internet all day at work and be thankful that you can at least sit in the air conditioning and socialize.
 
2013-07-11 09:46:51 AM  
People still bring up O.J. Simpson and Ted Kennedy and look at how old those situations are.
 
2013-07-11 09:47:02 AM  

tricycleracer: Zimmerman will be back protecting the streets of his apartment complex by lunchtime tomorrow.


I'm guessing he'll never feel like trying to do anything helpful for his neighbors, ever again, after this shiatstorm. And I don't blame him a bit.
 
2013-07-11 09:47:04 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Here's my problem: didn't Trayvon have a right to defend himself against a man who was following him with a gun?


If the man starts brandishing the gun, then yes. Until he moves to attack, no. That's the standard rule. From all the evidence we have, Trayvon struck first, and there's no reason to believe he even knew Zimmerman had a gun at that point. That makes the question of Trayvon's self-defense moot. Even if it weren't, though, we also know he was the first to escalate to deadly force, at which point Zimmerman's own rights kick in: one does not negate the other.

A guy who was following him for no other reason than a false assumption that Trayvon was a criminal?

If that's as far as it went, then it's not valid cause for self-defense.

Zimmerman escalated the situation. He left his car to pursue on foot.

He did indeed, and that was reckless. If the self-defense claim is invalidated, then certainly it could underpin a case for manslaughter, but that's not what the prosecution is claiming he did.

But even so, he did not escalate to the use of force, and he did not escalate to the use of deadly force. Both of those were Martin's doing.

All Trayvon was trying to do was get some snacks and go to his Dads place.

"I had to kill him" doesn't mean "He needed killing." There's no reason to believe that Trayvon Martin deserved to die, but that is not the central question in this case. Even at best, Zimmerman is not some angel of justice by any stretch of the imagination: he's just a guy who did what he had to do to survive, and that's if the self-defense claim is valid. But if it is valid, then he should walk.
 
2013-07-11 09:47:06 AM  
Popcorn Johnny:
No she didn't. Prosecution this morning, followed by the defense this afternoon. The prosecution then gets an hour rebuttal Friday morning.

The jury isn't even showing up until 1PM today per her directions from yesterday
 
2013-07-11 09:47:09 AM  

ferretman: T-Minus 120 hrs until Televisions and sneakers feel the wrath of a 'not guilty' verdict.



You're gonna be unprepared.  The riots start at sunset on Friday!  That's tomorrow!
 
2013-07-11 09:47:38 AM  
 
2013-07-11 09:48:32 AM  

Phinn: Carth: Phinn: tripleseven: They should have gone with manslaughter.

Legal question for you -- Does self-defense also negate a manslaughter allegation?

Isn't that was they are set to argue at 945? Whether the jury instructions will include lesser charges.

That's a separate question.

Today they are arguing whether the evidence is sufficient to justify asking the jury to consider both murder and manslaughter convictions as possible verdicts.  Some cases are either murder or nothing.  Some cases could be one or the other, depending on the jury's interpretation of the evidence as to the defendant's mental state.

My question is different -- If a defendant successfully asserts self-defense, and he's facing both murder and manslaughter charges, does self-defense negate both of those charges?


yes
 
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