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(Slate)   The latest thing that is annoying uppity hipsters? Gender pronouns   (slate.com) divider line 372
    More: Silly, adverse effect, hipsters, genders, teachable moment  
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13643 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 2:14 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-10 11:51:32 PM
You know what's silly? Ou.

Ou's on first.
 
2013-07-10 11:54:01 PM
This is, in every sense of the term, white people problems.  Not in the usual sense of the term where it refers to white people, but in the broader sense of the term where it refers to people with such a narcissistic worldview that other, bigger problems are overshadowed by your dogmatic insistence that everyone cater to your needs every waking second.  Let's call it "OBX" problems.

It's like biatching about the catering at a benefit for homeless people.
 
2013-07-11 12:02:52 AM
Also, if we're going for a gender pronoun that doesn't denote male or female, I feel we should use "pat" in honor of Julia Sweeney.  Because they ran that joke into the ground, but it pretty much outlines what the genderqueer people are trying to relay, and it has a much higher recognition among the general public.

No one knows what the fark "ou" means.  At least if someone sees "pat" in a sentence and can't put it together, you can show them a video on youtube.
 
2013-07-11 12:18:31 AM
Nah. Not gonna start worrying about that. I'll just let the movement die out.
 
2013-07-11 12:34:18 AM
fark 'em.
 
2013-07-11 12:51:36 AM
That article made me feel stabby.  Or at least punchy.
 
2013-07-11 12:51:45 AM
Let's get this out the way

i.ytimg.com
 
2013-07-11 01:14:26 AM
Let's make it easy - instead of pronouns indicating gender, let them indicate sex.  If you have a penis, you get the masculine pronoun, if you have a vagina, you get the feminine.  If you have both, you can pick whichever you prefer, but you have to be consistent, if you flip-flop authors are free to use whichever they feel is appropriate.

This can apply to dressing rooms, locker rooms, and restrooms for the transgendered as well - pre-op you go to the one that matches your plumbing, post-op, you go to the one that matches your new plumbing.
 
2013-07-11 01:23:43 AM
And the NYT article they linked to makes this so much harder for me to support,

P.G.P.'s can change as often as one likes. If the pronouns in the dictionary don't suffice, there are numerous made-up ones now in use, including "ze," "hir" and "hirs," words that connote both genders because, as Katy explained, "Maybe one day you wake up and feel more like a boy."

Maybe it's just me, but that seems way too fragmented and arbitrary to be effective and take hold. I like the gender neutral route they talked about in Australia and Sweden, because it's consistent and doesn't rely on an induvidual person's fickle and unpredictable nature
 
2013-07-11 01:39:50 AM
"Asshole" works perfectly in all applications.
 
2013-07-11 01:42:12 AM
I wonder if it is acceptable to such people to not use any pronouns at all.

"Jayne here was just on Jayne's way to Jayne's car to get Jayne's backpack."

Because no, I'm not going to waste my time learning the pronouns of the day in order to be politically correct, not until a consistent set is decided upon and integrated into the language. Of course, considering I don't live in the United States any more (and likely won't again), I highly doubt I'll run into this issue.

/genuine curiosity: is this a thing at all outside of the States? Not being genderqueer or whatever (I live in Thailand; gender identity seems to be rather confused here more than anywhere else I've ever lived), but getting uptight about which pronouns are used...
 
2013-07-11 02:17:40 AM

mamoru: I wonder if it is acceptable to such people to not use any pronouns at all.

"Jayne here was just on Jayne's way to Jayne's car to get Jayne's backpack."

Because no, I'm not going to waste my time learning the pronouns of the day in order to be politically correct, not until a consistent set is decided upon and integrated into the language. Of course, considering I don't live in the United States any more (and likely won't again), I highly doubt I'll run into this issue.

/genuine curiosity: is this a thing at all outside of the States? Not being genderqueer or whatever (I live in Thailand; gender identity seems to be rather confused here more than anywhere else I've ever lived), but getting uptight about which pronouns are used...


Uhh, you spelled 'Jane' wrong. Your argument is still valid, but still...
 
2013-07-11 02:19:01 AM
Don't be farking ridiculous.
 
2013-07-11 02:21:49 AM
This was likely because in Smith's author photo on xoJane, Smith reads as female, traditionally speaking. Now, Nolan happened to be wrong in this case-Smith identifies as genderqueer, a category for anything other than male/female, and prefers the pronoun "ou." Smith's colleagues alerted Nolan to his error with not one but three separate "urgent" emails demanding a "fix ASAP,"

This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2013-07-11 02:22:28 AM
This is not a hipster thing.  This is a thing for a few people who have studied it a lot and talked to others who have done the same. It would somewhat akin to a group of doctors coming to a consensus that everyone should use precise medical terms instead of common terms.
I am all for non-gendered pronouns, but having more gendered (or genderqueer) pronouns is impractical and will only emphasize more the ideas of gender.
 
2013-07-11 02:22:47 AM
Ah, yet another anti trans green, masked by the word hipsters. I am soo shocked.
Keep it up, please. Become another stormfront because we make you feel icky. Please proceed.
 
2013-07-11 02:23:39 AM

Mark Ratner: Uhh, you spelled 'Jane' wrong. Your argument is still valid, but still...


images4.wikia.nocookie.net
Disagrees. :p
 
2013-07-11 02:23:41 AM
WHYTE...

PEEPL...

Problems
 
2013-07-11 02:25:21 AM
"Ou" is French for "or." On the one hand, that sort of makes sense in the hypersensitive guy's context. On the other hand, why not just use "their?"
 
2013-07-11 02:28:40 AM
Hey! It's my cousin "It".

Gerry is my friend, an It most recently.

"It" is here, really queer, but let's have a beer... anyways.

I would like to introduce you to my friend, an "It" like you. It might be a good thing.

So a Straight, a Gay, and an It walk into a bar...

You know an It lives next door Dear?

I caught my son looking with binoculars at the It next door by It's pool. And It's not bad lookin' either.

Hi, I'm an It. Can I buy you a drink?

/Yeah, had a few myself.
 
2013-07-11 02:29:23 AM
I know several transgender people.  I learn if they prefer to be referred to as male or female and I try to remember.  However, there's no farking way I'm going to use non-words like 'ou'.  That's just stupid.  Languages evolve, so maybe in the future this will be dealt with.
 
2013-07-11 02:30:02 AM
I just don't farking care at this point. Everyone wants to be separated into their own group, but they want to attack anyone who acknowledges they've separated themselves into their own groups.
 
2013-07-11 02:30:53 AM
I hear this a lot from Portland, where people go out of their way to be offended on someone else's behalf.
 
2013-07-11 02:31:25 AM
Generally I find that if someone has to insist on what to call them and gets obnoxious about it, I don't call them at all.
 
2013-07-11 02:31:32 AM
I used s/he for a while, until i realized most people don't give a shiat either way.
 
2013-07-11 02:31:52 AM
You have many rights in the United States of America.

I've read the Constitution Of The United States Of America, as amended, many times.

I am thinking that "the right to not be annoyed" must be written in lemon juice or something on the back.   I ain't never found that thing.   Where's Nicholas Cage when you need him?
 
2013-07-11 02:32:04 AM

ElFugawz: This is not a hipster thing.  This is a thing for a few people who have studied it a lot and talked to others who have done the same. It would somewhat akin to a group of doctors coming to a consensus that everyone should use precise medical terms instead of common terms.
I am all for non-gendered pronouns, but having more gendered (or genderqueer) pronouns is impractical and will only emphasize more the ideas of gender.


Schler and Schlee agree.

/that said, it's really not a hipster thing
 
2013-07-11 02:32:53 AM

ThatDarkFellow: I just don't farking care at this point. Everyone wants to be separated into their own group, but they want to attack anyone who acknowledges they've separated themselves into their own groups.


I'm a unique snowflake!

How dare you treat me different!

I'm in the "I don't care" camp.  Be whatever you want to be, just don't expect me to act like you are anything special.
 
2013-07-11 02:32:53 AM
I prefer shklee, shklim, and shkler.

willdo.philadelphiaweekly.com
 
2013-07-11 02:33:51 AM
Respect your fellow huper.  After all, huMAN and perSON are sexist and patriachical.
 
2013-07-11 02:35:31 AM

Lsherm: This is, in every sense of the term, white people problems.  Not in the usual sense of the term where it refers to white people, but in the broader sense of the term where it refers to people with such a narcissistic worldview that other, bigger problems are overshadowed by your dogmatic insistence that everyone cater to your needs every waking second.  Let's call it "OBX" problems.

It's like biatching about the catering at a benefit for homeless people.


Oh my God, but seriously, why would they put the barbeque sauce DIRECTLY ON the mini hotdogs and still have ketchup? It just doesn't make sense, honestly, i just threw out the whole plate.
 
2013-07-11 02:35:48 AM

happy butcher: I prefer shklee, shklim, and shkler.

[willdo.philadelphiaweekly.com image 350x225]


Beat you to it ;)

/your universe dresses provocatively.
 
2013-07-11 02:37:14 AM
so catering to transgendered people is being hipster now? fark y'all
 
2013-07-11 02:37:16 AM
You know what bothers me about Hipsters and their gender definitions?

stuffhipstersdontlike.files.wordpress.com
I CAN'T DEFINE THE GENDERS OF THESE THREE PEOPLE!!! (who are supposedly posing for their band photo) That person on the left looks mostly like a guy (looks almost like Michael Cera, IMO), cept for the breasts, makes me wonder is it transgendered and if so, which gender is it going for and which gender did it change from? What the fark is that thing in the middle supposed to be, Linus or Peppermint Patty? The person on the right looks most likely to be male, but considering how the other two are, I don't want to even make a distinction because they certainly don't!

/Even in my most oddly frilly frocked poet shirts, you can still identify my Victorian styled Goth arse as male and one who's straight (yes, I think that's weird too)
//Yes I like wearing that stuff
///will still put down hipsterwear for either being too confusing and/or stealing other subculture's superficial appearance while acting like a douchebag towards the same subcultures they stole from
 
2013-07-11 02:37:50 AM

Canton: "Ou" is French for "or." On the one hand, that sort of makes sense in the hypersensitive guy's context. On the other hand, why not just use "their?"


Or, if you are going to use French, "on", since it already fulfills the appropriate role
 
2013-07-11 02:37:53 AM
How about "he or she/it," or "horshiat" for short?

/joke stolen from slug signorino
 
2013-07-11 02:39:22 AM
What about that old fussy standby: one?

If one is offended, one may unrustle one's jimmies by rinsing the sand from one's nethers.
 
2013-07-11 02:40:23 AM
I try to be as respectful as I possibly can with regards to diversity toward peoples of all races, ethnicities, genders, cultures and moral values. And I always try to reach across the aisle to acquiesce to their specific mores and norms in an effort to make them more comfortable.

But I don't want to walk through a minefield of hidden personal slights when it comes to interacting with certain people, and there comes a point where the inconvenience and awkwardness is just not worth it. If these people really demand that the English language itself be deliberately altered for their sake, then I just don't want to bother dealing with them anymore.

I deal with enough anal-retentive snobs as it is.
 
2013-07-11 02:41:08 AM
Bet they squat to piss as well.
 
2013-07-11 02:41:45 AM
Commercial for people that don't associate on the gender binary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s55QoIZScP4


1.bp.blogspot.com

Sometimes you feel like a nut.
Sometimes you don't.
Almond Joys have nuts.
Mounds don't.
 
2013-07-11 02:42:24 AM
I thought it was a joke at first, and I'm still having trouble recognizing this as something that exists outside of the tumblrverse.
I don't think this relates to the transgendered or asexuals, but attention whores.
 
2013-07-11 02:42:28 AM

RealAmericanHero: so catering to transgendered people is being hipster now? fark y'all


Expecting people to learn and use new pronouns to cater to an extremely small group of people when the pronouns we already use have served us well since the birth of modern English is a bit hipsterish.
 
2013-07-11 02:42:31 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: You know what bothers me about Hipsters and their gender definitions?

[stuffhipstersdontlike.files.wordpress.com image 850x680]
I CAN'T DEFINE THE GENDERS OF THESE THREE PEOPLE!!! (who are supposedly posing for their band photo) That person on the left looks mostly like a guy (looks almost like Michael Cera, IMO), cept for the breasts, makes me wonder is it transgendered and if so, which gender is it going for and which gender did it change from? What the fark is that thing in the middle supposed to be, Linus or Peppermint Patty? The person on the right looks most likely to be male, but considering how the other two are, I don't want to even make a distinction because they certainly don't!

/Even in my most oddly frilly frocked poet shirts, you can still identify my Victorian styled Goth arse as male and one who's straight (yes, I think that's weird too)
//Yes I like wearing that stuff
///will still put down hipsterwear for either being too confusing and/or stealing other subculture's superficial appearance while acting like a douchebag towards the same subcultures they stole from


Just because someone is ugly, it doesn't make them transgendered. It's an insult to transgendered people to lump these uglies in with them.
 
2013-07-11 02:42:48 AM
FTFA: Smith identifies as genderqueer, a category for anything other than male/female, and prefers the pronoun "ou."

Look, I'm flexible.  I'm happy to accommodate your gender preference.  Switched genders?  Cool, I'll call you the new one.  One gender on the outside but a different one on the inside?  Great, I'll call you whichever one you choose.  And guess what, just as soon as you can show me medical evidence that of something other than male or female (or hermaphrodite, even though they're incredibly rare and you aren't one, so shut up) I'll call you whatever it is you think you are.

But I'm not calling you made up nonsense just to make you feel special.  I draw the line at bending over backwards for genders that aren't REAL because you want to be a dramatic attention whore every time you get introduced to people.
 
2013-07-11 02:43:15 AM

RoyBatty: Commercial for people that don't associate on the gender binary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s55QoIZScP4


[1.bp.blogspot.com image 390x189]

Sometimes you feel like a nut.
Sometimes you don't.
Almond Joys have nuts.
Mounds don't.


So we can call them AJs and Ms?
 
2013-07-11 02:44:32 AM
Another reason I only grunt and point when communicating with hipsters
 
2013-07-11 02:46:19 AM
My life doesn't have to be as complicated as yours, and I assure you it isn't going to be complicated like this.
 
2013-07-11 02:47:07 AM
Im all for tolerance and understanding... but if it makes me roll my eyes maybe dial it back a bit.

I mean when a prominent gay icon has to apologize for using an unknowingly offensive term for transsexuals... come on.

Pick your battles, youve got bigger problems still. Maybe when your people can get married, or heck, when your people stop getting dragged behind trucks, then we can worry about your preferred pronoun.
 
2013-07-11 02:47:12 AM
These guys people must get their panties undergarments in a twist when they deal with gendered languages like the Latin derivatives.
 
2013-07-11 02:47:33 AM
Fark them.
 
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