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(The Hutchinson News)   Take a few pictures from a paraglider of a feedlot filled with thousands of cattle for National Geographic? That's an arrestin' in Kansas   (hutchnews.com) divider line 159
    More: Stupid, National Geographic, Kansas  
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15893 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jul 2013 at 12:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-10 10:15:55 PM
Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"
 
2013-07-10 11:56:30 PM
Wasn't the trespassing charge due to driving onto posted property without permission? This doesn't seem like some kind of air photography rights case.
 
2013-07-10 11:59:20 PM
Well, this is interesting: if you pull up Google maps and go to Garden City, KS, and zoom in a bit, you can pick out two feed lots to the east and west by the patterns. And if you zoom in further, you can see individual cattle.
But if you look NNE, there's a large space that is blurred out, but the blur resembles the same field pattern as the clearly visible feed lots.

/just sayin'...
 
2013-07-11 12:01:57 AM
From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?
 
2013-07-11 12:02:33 AM
Sh*t

/I seem to be directionally dyslexic today
//NNW
 
2013-07-11 12:14:08 AM

ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"


Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?
 
2013-07-11 12:26:46 AM
Big Meat can buy a lot of politicians. And have them stay bought.
 
2013-07-11 12:29:22 AM
Im prettysure its legal to photograph from a plane unless there is something in TFA that wasnt in headline like landing on private prop.
 
2013-07-11 12:30:19 AM

Speaker2Animals: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?


Serious question - at what altitude does it not become trespassing? Commercial airlines aren't asking every landowner for permission as they fly over this part of the country.
 
2013-07-11 12:31:44 AM

Speaker2Animals: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?


they parked an SUV on the ranch property before taking off. Im on their side, but that right there, i can see them getting dinged for.

As far as how high they were over the fields:

In the, the (FAA) has the sole authority to control all airspace, exclusively determining the rules and requirements for its use. Typically, in the "Uncontrolled" category of airspace, any pilot can fly any aircraft as low as he or she wants, subject to the requirement of maintaining a 500-foot (150 m) distance from people and man-made structures except for purposes of and, and not causing any. Therefore, it appears to trump any individually claimed air rights, near especially.

There is no clear cut rule here, but thats pretty close. If the FAA, a governement body, says 500'+ is in their control, then if their glider was at 500' plus, then its tough titties for the farmers.

I have also heard over the year, anecdotally, that at 2,000 feet is the real air rights limit. This comes up every time NY or Chicago thinks about building a skyscraper taller than that.

Here is an older statement/suggestion from the FAA

We have concluded that this objective can best be achieved by adopting the following policy : Applications for antenna towers higher than 2,000 feet above ground will be presumed to be inconsistent with the public interest, and the applicant will have a burden of overcoming that strong presumption. The applicant must accompany its application with a detailed showing directed to meeting this burden.

So its can be thought that anything over 2,000 feet is no longer in full control of the property owner below.
 
2013-07-11 12:31:49 AM
Looked at TFA and aparantly they took off and landed on property they didnt have permission to be on.
 
2013-07-11 12:33:09 AM

mamoru: From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


Americans understand this. Americans never wanted a "War on terror" to begin with.
 
2013-07-11 12:33:28 AM
What did they decide about Barbara Streisland's complaint?

Steinmetz was circling around the feedlot and taking photographs - not flying straight across it, Popelka said. Criminal statute, however, Popelka said, doesn't define how far land goes - in this case, how far up.

FAA regulations define how far up. Far enough up for whatever is trespassing to be touching the ground.  Any further up and it is merely flying over. Balloonists know the rule well.
 
2013-07-11 12:34:13 AM
Uh, feedlot guys, what exactly is the reason nobody is supposed to see the feedlots? Top secret cow feeding techniques? If it's because people might think the cows are sad and not eat hamburgers, you've clearly misunderstood the power of the American appetite. If it's because you think terrorists will somehow figure out how to use beef cows to attack America, you've stolen the plot from a rejected Will Farrell comedy.  You guys aren't like having sex with cows or something are you? Because I think that is clearly considered a no-no in Leviticus.
 
2013-07-11 12:34:17 AM

mamoru: From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


its not an irrational fear - its a well grounded one, just not of terrorism. several states have what are called 'ag-gag' laws now making photography of livestock or processing of them illegal.
too many exposes of illegal, unsafe, and inhumane treatment of animals made the news, so the ag lobbyists response was to make photographing livestock illegal - often a felony.

/only in america would the solution to the exposure of rampant health and animal handling laws being violated on a regular basis being the felonization of exposing the problem in the first place.
 
2013-07-11 12:34:45 AM

JungleBoogie: Big Meat can buy a lot of politicians. And have them stay bought.


Dear sir, you have impuned  the character of my penis for the last time!  My penis would NEVER buy a politician!
 
2013-07-11 12:37:11 AM

Speaker2Animals: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?


No - the trespass was when they drove onto private property to launch the paraglider.  That's pretty open and shut, and that's all they are being charged with.

The article is questioning what would qualify as trespass if they WERE arrested for taking pictures.  But unlike subby, and you, I can read the article.
 
2013-07-11 12:37:32 AM

mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?



We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.
 
2013-07-11 12:39:52 AM

mamoru: From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


They're actually terrified of animal rights activists showing the public photos. Why, I don't know, most people don't give a shiat if the animals they are eating got somewhat farked up along the way.
 
2013-07-11 12:40:16 AM

the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.


Silly, the tigers aren't the real threat; that's why I use my shark repellent bat spray
 
2013-07-11 12:40:34 AM

CliChe Guevara: mamoru: From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?

its not an irrational fear - its a well grounded one, just not of terrorism. several states have what are called 'ag-gag' laws now making photography of livestock or processing of them illegal.
too many exposes of illegal, unsafe, and inhumane treatment of animals made the news, so the ag lobbyists response was to make photographing livestock illegal - often a felony.

/only in america would the solution to the exposure of rampant health and animal handling laws being violated on a regular basis being the felonization of exposing the problem in the first place.


This. The "agri-terrorism" stuff is a pile of bullshiat higher than what they cart out of that feedlot.
 
2013-07-11 12:41:24 AM

the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack?


Um, three months ago?
 
2013-07-11 12:41:47 AM
Pics or it didn't happen.
 
2013-07-11 12:42:03 AM

TheManofPA: the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.

Silly, the tigers aren't the real threat; that's why I use my shark repellent bat spray


Everyone knows the biggest security threat is Bears.
 
2013-07-11 12:42:16 AM
Lucky for him the Koch Brothers didn't own the lot, they might have shot him down with a surface to air missile
 
2013-07-11 12:44:21 AM
Odd that TFA never mentions the owner or location of the feedlot he was photographing.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this is interesting: if you pull up Google maps and go to Garden City, KS, and zoom in a bit, you can pick out two feed lots to the east and west by the patterns. And if you zoom in further, you can see individual cattle.
But if you look NNE, there's a large space that is blurred out, but the blur resembles the same field pattern as the clearly visible feed lots.

/just sayin'...


Where is this blurred space, exactly? Because I'm not seeing it.
 
2013-07-11 12:44:23 AM
Maybe the people who own the lots didn't want anyone to see what sh*t conditions they keep their animals in.

No, I'm not from PETA or a militant vegetarian... I like a good steak or burger just like most folks... well done, with carmelized onions... but people really need to see where their food comes from if they're going to make a decision on whether to buy it. I don't believe in torturing animals before they become food... feed them well, give them time to grow, have a decent life and do their cow thing, then kill them as quickly and painlessly as possible before steak time.

No need to make them suffer, just tasty.
 
2013-07-11 12:45:13 AM

ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"


Didn't even read the article, did you? The guy's a photographer for National Geographic, not PETA. And we're White Knighting Big Beef now?
 
2013-07-11 12:45:26 AM
Factory farms don't want documentation of the conditions animals are subjected to.
 
2013-07-11 12:45:50 AM
 
2013-07-11 12:46:40 AM

fusillade762: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Didn't even read the article, did you? The guy's a photographer for National Geographic, not PETA. And we're White Knighting Big Beef now?


Did you read the article?  They parked on his property and launched the paraglider from it, then landed on it.
 
2013-07-11 12:47:35 AM

TheManofPA: the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.

Silly, the tigers aren't the real threat; that's why I use my shark repellent bat spray


cdn.uproxx.com

You sure about that?
 
2013-07-11 12:48:11 AM

mamoru: From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


THIS
 
2013-07-11 12:49:23 AM
causing concern from industry officials that it could be a potential food security issue.

"Food security issue"????

OK, I know there are lots of threats going on--but I was not aware our food supply was in any kind of danger. In fact, the last time I drove past the feed lot on the 5 (near Stockton, it's an awful thing to go past in summer), it looked like we've got cows to spare.

Also, it would be interesting to see Big Agriculture take on National Geographic, because I really doubt they were going to be doing any kind of smear job on feed lots--they've got access to all kinds of stuff and if they need pics of evil food growers torturing cows, they've got them. They probably just needed aerial photos of cows in lots and didn't want scared cows milling around or something.

Go ahead, cattle grower, take on one of the most respected photojournalists in the world. Let's see who wins.
 
2013-07-11 12:49:41 AM

astro716: Speaker2Animals: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?

Serious question - at what altitude does it not become trespassing? Commercial airlines aren't asking every landowner for permission as they fly over this part of the country.


They drove their truck onto private property to launch the paraglider.  No altitude involved to do that.
 
2013-07-11 12:49:51 AM

SearchN: TheManofPA: the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.

Silly, the tigers aren't the real threat; that's why I use my shark repellent bat spray



You sure about that?


Ahh the moment Adam West era batman um jumped the shark. Before Happy Days even.
 
2013-07-11 12:50:21 AM
trailers.apple.com
 
2013-07-11 12:51:48 AM

mamoru: From TFA: After all, hundreds of thousands of cattle are fattening in a 100-mile radius around Garden City and such incidents could turn into a food security issue - especially in an era where agri-terrorism is a threat.

Just out of curiosity, how many Americans have been killed or even harmed by "agri-terrorism" in the last decade?

Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


Some of us do and aren't happy about it. The derp voters are going to maintain this BS forever though.
 
2013-07-11 12:52:16 AM

cmunic8r99: Odd that TFA never mentions the owner or location of the feedlot he was photographing.
MaudlinMutantMollusk: Well, this is interesting: if you pull up Google maps and go to Garden City, KS, and zoom in a bit, you can pick out two feed lots to the east and west by the patterns. And if you zoom in further, you can see individual cattle.
But if you look NNE, there's a large space that is blurred out, but the blur resembles the same field pattern as the clearly visible feed lots.

/just sayin'...

Where is this blurred space, exactly? Because I'm not seeing it.


looking closer, that may just be a clear plowed field at the 400/50/83 interchange

/but if you go up 83 to the North, there's a HUGE lot that isn't blurred at all
//and it's packed
 
2013-07-11 12:55:37 AM

OgreMagi: astro716: Speaker2Animals: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?

Serious question - at what altitude does it not become trespassing? Commercial airlines aren't asking every landowner for permission as they fly over this part of the country.

They drove their truck onto private property to launch the paraglider.  No altitude involved to do that.


Yeah everyone seems to have a "dont confuse me with the facts" attitude towards that.
 
2013-07-11 12:55:37 AM
Nobody posted a picture of Oprah as an Agra-terrorist? Remember when she attacked the meat industry?
 
2013-07-11 12:58:19 AM

SearchN: TheManofPA: the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.

Silly, the tigers aren't the real threat; that's why I use my shark repellent bat spray

[cdn.uproxx.com image 500x384]

You sure about that?


At least it wasn't a sparrow with a machine gun
 
2013-07-11 12:59:17 AM

FunkOut: Uh, feedlot guys, what exactly is the reason nobody is supposed to see the feedlots?


Like any commercial enterprise, they probably have liability concerns.  If this guy trips on a rock while trespassing on their property it would cost them millions.
 
2013-07-11 01:01:29 AM
I interrupt my usual complete reading to the farking article to post:  causing concern from industry officials that it could be a potential food security issue.

I suspect that industry officials were, in fact, concerned that conditions at the feed lot were being documented. Could it be that images of the conditions at the feed lot, should they be generally disseminated, would cause financial harm to the local ranchers?

I now return to my usual complete reading to the farking article, and will read the other posts on this thread before posting again. I would also like to ask my fellow Farkers to consider the song Deacon Blues by Steely Dan, which has been going through my head non-stop for the last four days as a mitigating factor in my unusual behavior, and, I hope, by doing so they will be infected by the same song and that I will be relieved of this constant repetition and tag you're it.
 
2013-07-11 01:01:47 AM
Ag-Gag.

Lovely stuff from, IIRC, ALEC.

Quite honestly, I'm surprised no one has tried blaming a lysteria or e Coli outbreak on terrorists yet.

  

rewind2846: Maybe the people who own the lots didn't want anyone to see what sh*t conditions they keep their animals in.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDbHwz6JGzo
 
2013-07-11 01:03:21 AM

OgreMagi: astro716: Speaker2Animals: ArkAngel: Or "Trespass on clearly marked private property while attempting to make the owner look bad? That's an arrestin' in most places"

Clearly marked? They got balloons up with No Trespassing signs?

Serious question - at what altitude does it not become trespassing? Commercial airlines aren't asking every landowner for permission as they fly over this part of the country.

They drove their truck onto private property to launch the paraglider.  No altitude involved to do that.


FTA;

 It does bring up an issue of what is trespassing in the air, said Kansas Livestock Association attorney Aaron Popelka. Steinmetz was circling around the feedlot and taking photographs - not flying straight across it, Popelka said. Criminal statute, however, Popelka said, doesn't define how far land goes - in this case, how far up. Moreover, while Congress has authorized flights and air travel, the photographer wasn't engaging in air travel to pass through on a public air highway.

"This was a low-level entry with intent to remain in that space," he said.

"A case could be made here," Popelka said, but added it was up to the county attorney to decide what exactly to do in the situation.



Somehow I don't think the reason they were arrested was because of the truck, it was because they were taking pics of the cattle. The article states as much. The truck on private property may a side issue the cops do legitimately have on them, but it wasn't why the cops were called, why the cattle people were upset, or why they were arrested. It certainly isn't the legal precedent the cattle organization wants to set - they want the flying and the photographing part to be prosecuted to set a precedent.

/Can't believe all the white knighting going on here for what is an obvious cover up and abuse of power.
 
2013-07-11 01:04:05 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: FunkOut: Uh, feedlot guys, what exactly is the reason nobody is supposed to see the feedlots?

Like any commercial enterprise, they probably have liability concerns.  If this guy trips on a rock while trespassing on their property it would cost them millions.


FFS.

That is NOT the reason.  The reason is because of animal rights activists who got themselves hired at these shady ass operations (which unfortunately are the norm, industrialized food includes living animals), some of which resulted in prosecutions.

Harder to prosecute when you have no inside evidence presented to you essentially demanding you prosecute.

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/06/daily-show-al-madriga l- ag-gag-laws
 
2013-07-11 01:05:25 AM
Great. Now I'm hungry again!
 
2013-07-11 01:08:02 AM

TheManofPA: SearchN: TheManofPA: the ha ha guy: mamoru: Seriously, America... your irrational fear of terrorism is way out of hand. You do know that being terrified of terrorism means that you have lost your "war on terror", right?


We might be paranoid, but how long has it been since we've had a successful terrorist attack? See, the system works, and nothing you say will convince us otherwise.

/Now if you'll excuse me, I have to spray tiger repellant on my lawn.

Silly, the tigers aren't the real threat; that's why I use my shark repellent bat spray

[cdn.uproxx.com image 500x384]

You sure about that?

At least it wasn't a sparrow with a machine gun


209.160.46.93
 
2013-07-11 01:08:27 AM

CliChe Guevara: Somehow I don't think the reason they were arrested was because of the truck, it was because they were taking pics of the cattle. The article states as much. The truck on private property may a side issue the cops do legitimately have on them, but it wasn't why the cops were called, why the cattle people were upset, or why they were arrested. It certainly isn't the legal precedent the cattle organization wants to set - they want the flying and the photographing part to be prosecuted to set a precedent.

/Can't believe all the white knighting going on here for what is an obvious cover up and abuse of power.


I can believe it.  The douchebag who owns the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit had fake DHS people (heavily implied they were DHS but I don't think they outright stated so) threaten photographers on city land (which IIRC he was illegally trying to annex).  National security issue photographing the bridge, y'know.  There were white knighters during that too.  To be fair, *those* white knighters were likely bought and paid for, as was every single pro-douchebag-proposal representative myself and my coworkers and volunteers saw on election day here.
 
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