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(Sioux City Journal)   Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy, a kid'll eat ivy too, but a show-goater will shoot the neighbor's Saint Bernards for eating his goats, wouldn't you?   ( siouxcityjournal.com) divider line
    More: Strange, Rock Rapids, Mares eat oats, Iowa, local ordinance, goats  
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3721 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jul 2013 at 4:57 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



109 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-10 03:34:50 PM  
Mehhhhhhh.
 
2013-07-10 03:42:05 PM  
I used to think it was a nonsense song like "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."  Till I was like in my 20s.
 
2013-07-10 03:45:26 PM  
welcometotwinpeaks.com
 
2013-07-10 03:50:16 PM  
Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock.  They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault.  It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.
 
2013-07-10 03:53:01 PM  
Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead.


Because you and your family failed to control them.
 
2013-07-10 04:12:14 PM  
I can't hear this song anymore without thinking of Leland Palmer after he went full-on batsh*t and his hair turned white.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-10 04:13:17 PM  
See that's been covered already. Carry on.
 
2013-07-10 05:03:33 PM  
And now I'm having flashbacks to trying to learn concurrency in Java. Thanks.
 
2013-07-10 05:04:11 PM  
"I want answers," said Fluit. "They were my pets and my family, any decent human being would have just called. I'm not letting it go."

So solly, fluitcake.
 
2013-07-10 05:08:21 PM  
Such a sad story.
Needs some background music, maybe Beethoven.
 
2013-07-10 05:08:28 PM  
Mars does whut ?
 
2013-07-10 05:09:42 PM  
Cujo and family?
 
2013-07-10 05:15:20 PM  

Sybarite: Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead.


Because you and your family failed to control them.


Lead poisoning?
 
2013-07-10 05:16:31 PM  
"I want answers," said Fluit. "They were my pets and my family, any decent human being would have just called. I'm not letting it go."

Any decent human being wouldn't let their very large and potentially dangerous dogs slaughter their neighbors goats.  The fact that those dogs are dead are entirely the dog owner's fault:  The goats were in a pen, not wondering around, and the dogs had (probably) killed one of the goats the day before.  An attentive owner would have noticed blood on their fur.
 
2013-07-10 05:18:35 PM  
Frank Burns eats worms.

/that's all I got
//move along
 
2013-07-10 05:19:06 PM  
"I want answers," said Fluit.

Your dogs killed one goat, and then were in the process of eating another.  What part of that is difficult to understand?
 
2013-07-10 05:19:45 PM  
I'd have to see a picture of Ivy before I would eat it.
 
2013-07-10 05:20:08 PM  
My head hurts; why show-goater instead of goat-shower? Is it because people would think it's raining goats?
 
2013-07-10 05:20:11 PM  
We learned that song in choir as an example of the "Fall Skenection"
 
2013-07-10 05:22:05 PM  
When I was a toddler, our family dog killed the neighbor's chickens.  Dad had to pay for he chickens and relocate the dog.  The neighbor would have been within his rights to shoot our dog if he'd caught him in the act.  The idea that the neighbor should have called my dad then sat there watching our dog kill his chickens until my dad was able to get there and get the dog under control is absurd but that's what Amy Fluit seems to think should have happened in her case.

If you don't want someone to shoot your livestock-killing dogs, control your dogs.

If she keeps up her dumb coontery, Mike Bus should sue her for the value of the goats her animals killed.  He may not be able to prove liability for the earlier attack but there's no question about the last attack.
 
2013-07-10 05:23:18 PM  

basemetal: Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock.  They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault.  It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.


Indeed...I don't know a state where it's not only legal but expected that a livestock owner will shoot a predator caught going after their stock.  In my home state it's legal to hunt down the predator after the fact (including someone's pet or otherwise).  I've more than one friend/neighbor that has dropped off the neighbors dog on their porch along with a bill for whatever the dog killed (chickens usually, but goats, sheep and even a foal).  I typically keep game cameras out for just this purpose.  That last thing I need is some stupid dog killing a couple thousand dollars worth of stock for fun (they rarely eat it...it's just for sport).  That said, most dogs won't do this if they've been around farms/stock.  My neighbors all have dogs and they would sooner protect the local stock than kill it.  Nice to have them around to keep coyotes at bay.
 
2013-07-10 05:23:50 PM  

broken jebus: "I want answers," said Fluit.

Your dogs killed one goat, and then were in the process of eating another.  What part of that is difficult to understand?


Maybe this is the key:  "The younger ones don't quite get it," Fluit said. "And it hasn't completely sunk in yet because we haven't been home since it happened."

I would bet that they went away on vacation, left the dogs with some food and/or water but the dogs got loose when they weren't there.  My asshat neighbors did this with their two labs all the time and they'd eventually wander the neighborhood when they ran out of food and water.  Or perhaps they had someone doggy sitting who was careless and left a gate unlatched or door not shut.
 
2013-07-10 05:23:59 PM  
Came for picture of Leland Palmer. Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-07-10 05:24:11 PM  

basemetal: Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock.  They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault.  It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.


Yep.

CSB:

When I was about 17, we lived in the Tehachapi mountains in CA and I worked for one of our neighbors who owned several hundred acres and about 40 head of cattle.  Another neighbor on the lower part of the mountain was notorious for letting his dogs roam.  We were coming home one afternoon and spotted two of the dogs chasing some calves about 200 yards below us in a ravine. "John" hits the brakes, pulls his lever-action 30-30 from behind the seat and nails the first dog.  As the second dogs starts fleeing  "John" whistles real loud and the dog stopped to look.  Fatal mistake.  "John" nails the bastard and sent me down the ravine to retrieve the dead dogs and I threw them in the back of the truck.  We turned around and dropped the carcasses  off at the other neighbor's gate.  The other neighbor never said a word about it.
 
2013-07-10 05:30:19 PM  
I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs,  after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

That said,

Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead

You know exactly why your dogs are dead, and why they'd still be alive if they had anyone but you for an owner. Satisfied?
 
2013-07-10 05:31:23 PM  
Pyranees protecting its herd of goats vs. Saint Benard...FIGHT!

/a hundi on the pyranees
 
2013-07-10 05:34:59 PM  
If I was the goater I'd take the dogass to civil court for losses and include the farking ammo.
Dogs killing livestock is a federal crime.
 
2013-07-10 05:36:00 PM  
Silly dogs, goats are for farking
 
2013-07-10 05:40:05 PM  
Now if he don't stop eatin' my eggs goats up
Though I'm not a real bad guy
I'm gonna get my rifle and send him
To that great chicken house goat pen in the sky.
 
2013-07-10 05:42:16 PM  

Intelligent_Donkey: Frank Burns eats worms.

/that's all I got
//move along


Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh, Bach.
 
2013-07-10 05:43:17 PM  
If the dogs had already killed one goat the day before and then another goat the day they were shot, who knows what they would have done if they were left alive to continue on. Yesterday a goat, today a goat, tomorrow a kid?
 
2013-07-10 05:44:44 PM  
I would send the dog owner an itemized bill for the goats, and the bullets expended
 
2013-07-10 05:46:31 PM  
I don't have pets of any kind.

because, frankly, I'm better than you people.

I also don't own a TeeVee and I use a non-ironic  rotary phone

Pretty much King Sh*T of F*ck Island over here.

/borrowed, slightly amended//they should have controlled their animals
 
2013-07-10 05:50:10 PM  

Dazrin: If the dogs had already killed one goat the day before and then another goat the day they were shot, who knows what they would have done if they were left alive to continue on. Yesterday a goat, today a goat, tomorrow a kid?


Goat, goat, goat, goat.....goose!
 
2013-07-10 05:52:16 PM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs,  after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

That said,

Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead

You know exactly why your dogs are dead, and why they'd still be alive if they had anyone but you for an owner. Satisfied?


I disagree. The owners were not in town and I doubt they left their phone number with the goat owner. If there is no ordinance prohibiting dogs roaming free and it's the second goat killed on two days, it's pretty safe to assume the dogs will attack again. Why must the goat owner wait until another goat is being killed to defend them? He can't wait out there to catch them because they probably won't attack while he's watching, and he has better things to do. Besides, livestock have more legal protection than your dog.
 
2013-07-10 06:04:18 PM  
images.sodahead.com

Approve of the headline.

/except for the missing apostrophe...
 
2013-07-10 06:15:51 PM  
"I want answers," said Fluit. "They were my pets and my family, any decent human being would have just called. I'm not letting it go."

She's right to not let it go.  Because she owes them $600 for the dead goats and damages for the pain and suffering caused by finding the dogs eating a goat in its pen.  Plus criminal penalties if what was said about it being a federal crime is correct so plan on taking some time off to go to club fed.  Maybe a couple of billy club shampoos and a few months of random body cavity searches will cure her of her sanctimoniousness.
 
2013-07-10 06:17:27 PM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs,  after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.


That's your logical leap. You don't know anyone or anything else wasn't in danger.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.


It doesn't take a wolf, fox or stray to make a bad canine. Many dog owners are pieces of shiat who don't look after their hounds.

/I've left the rest of your comment in because it's troof.

That said,

Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead

You know exactly why your dogs are dead, and why they'd still be alive if they had anyone but you for an owner. Satisfied?
 
2013-07-10 06:17:45 PM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb...


Yes, yes you did.
 
2013-07-10 06:23:00 PM  
seventypercent:

Came here for that.

/satisfied
 
2013-07-10 06:24:31 PM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs,  after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.


Just because the animal belongs to the neighbors doesn't change the fact there's an animal killing your livestock. The livestock owner is well within their rights to defend their property. I'm not surprised he chose to shoot the dogs. Would you want to go out there and try to corral three very large dogs displaying aggressive behavior? For all he knew the dogs might have turned on him if he'd tried that.

I doubt he's some trigger happy nut or that he shot the dogs out of malice. I'm sure he was extremely pissed off though. I'm also sure his actions were very deliberate. He'd already lost two animals and wasn't going to give the dogs a chance to come back and do more damage. The first time might have been an isolated incident. The second time shows they're not going to stop and that the owners can't control them.

Unfortunately once dogs get a taste for killing livestock it's difficult to break them of the habit.
 
2013-07-10 06:33:20 PM  
My landlord raises Boer goats and cattle, and he's two big Pyranees dogs that chase the coyotes away. They're big, slobbery love dogs, but do not mess with the herd. That's their babies and they're very protective.

When he had to replace a deceased (it had a long, happy farm life) working dog with a new one, he ended up shooting the new dog because it killed two baby goats. That "baby animal killing thing" is not something you can train away with obedience classes. If a dog will kill one animal, it'll kill another.
 
2013-07-10 06:37:49 PM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs, after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.


Because when you've got freakin' Cujo stalking your livestock, you don't take a chance on losing any more goats or seeing what else they might want to kill next.  The neighbor wasn't sure if it was just one or all 3 dogs killing his livestock, the dogs' owners were out of town--forget it.  Put down the goddamn dogs.  And I'm a dog lover!

Something else to consider:  What would make a St. Bernard go after a goat?  Weren't the dogs being cared for while the owners were away?  Were they being fed?  They're herding dogs, bred to PROTECT livestock, not kill them.  They're not known for being aggressive at all.
 
2013-07-10 06:38:07 PM  
MechaPyx:

Unfortunately once dogs get a taste for killing livestock it's difficult to break them of the habit.

=========

Domestic dogs are descended from wolves.  Domestic dogs retain a lot of their wolf ancestor instincts.  Too many farkwits believe that cute, little Fluffy would never do anything like run with a pack, bring down a deer and rip its guts open......but that's just what Fluffy will do if given a chance.

/Keep your dogs under control
 
2013-07-10 06:39:17 PM  

Diogenes: I used to think it was a nonsense song like "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."  Till I was like in my 20s.


Same here. Thought it was maresy dotes and dosey dotes and little lamsey divey.
 
2013-07-10 06:40:08 PM  
That guy was an asshole for shooting the dogs. On the other hand, keep your farking dogs in your yard and always know where they are.
I have 4 dogs and know where they are and what they're doing ALWAYS.

This woman probably also has bratty kids that run around stores and restaurants screaming like banshees while she sits oblivious.
 
2013-07-10 06:42:53 PM  
I'm assuming Fluit didn't have a good fence installed

/when the fence don't work/isn't there, a slug will fix that
//as much as I like dogs, this was fully fair and well deserved
///and is it just me, our does the story lets on that it was a multiple occurrence that the dogs attacked the goats?
 
2013-07-10 06:47:33 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: basemetal: Meh, any farmer/rancher will kill your dog if they get onto their property and endanger their livestock.  They just will, and it will be the dog owner's fault.  It's why you need to pen or restrain your dogs on your own property.

Yep.

CSB:

When I was about 17, we lived in the Tehachapi mountains in CA and I worked for one of our neighbors who owned several hundred acres and about 40 head of cattle.  Another neighbor on the lower part of the mountain was notorious for letting his dogs roam.  We were coming home one afternoon and spotted two of the dogs chasing some calves about 200 yards below us in a ravine. "John" hits the brakes, pulls his lever-action 30-30 from behind the seat and nails the first dog.  As the second dogs starts fleeing  "John" whistles real loud and the dog stopped to look.  Fatal mistake.  "John" nails the bastard and sent me down the ravine to retrieve the dead dogs and I threw them in the back of the truck.  We turned around and dropped the carcasses  off at the other neighbor's gate.  The other neighbor never said a word about it.


We had real white trshy neighbors who let their dogs run in packs and in the wild. They made the big mistake of slaughtering and eating our piglets. Uncle comes out with a 12 guage boom, boom, boom, boom and boom. Neighbors couldn't say anything because they were in trouble before with those dogs.
 
2013-07-10 06:53:09 PM  
I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock  (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone else.
 
2013-07-10 06:54:46 PM  

Mr. Cat Poop: Diogenes: I used to think it was a nonsense song like "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."  Till I was like in my 20s.

Same here. Thought it was maresy dotes and dosey dotes and little lamsey divey.


Or Marzy Doats and Dozy Doats and little lamsy divy.
 
2013-07-10 06:58:01 PM  

Intelligent_Donkey: Frank Burns eats worms.


"You tell him, Ferret Face!"
 
2013-07-10 07:03:58 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
He's unjustly accused!
 
2013-07-10 07:04:24 PM  

wellreadneck: I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock  (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone el


Livestock is typically worth more than a vegetable garden, you know.

Growing up on a poultry farm, we've had to shoot our share of neighborhood dogs that were left to run loose and ended up jumping over or digging under fences to get to our livestock. We typically gave the owners two verbal warnings when we returned their dogs and an itemized bill for the livestock killed. The third time, though, their dead dog got delivered to their doorstep with another bill.

I have far more respect for foxes and coyotes who actually eattheir kills. But domesticated dogs, they'll kill 100+ chickens for the sheer thrill of the killing and not eat a single one. Nothing under the sun makes a farmer more livid.

We've had the sheriff department called on us umpteen times by "city people" who moved out to the country and suddenly have a dead dog. The deputies typically tell them that they had two warnings to keep their dogs hooked up and under control, and that we were well within our rights to shoot them the first time it happened.

Shiat happens, keep better control of your dogs and this wouldn't happen.
 
2013-07-10 07:08:51 PM  
FTFA : Regardless, Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead. She said she has asked for photos and more information from the sheriff's office.
"I want answers," said Fluit. "They were my pets and my family, any decent human being would have just called. I'm not letting it go."


Your dogs are dead because they were killing your neighbors animals.  Any decent human being wouldn't be letting their dogs do that.

You had best drop it while you can, because it can only go downhill.
 
2013-07-10 07:12:54 PM  

Mr. Cat Poop: Diogenes: I used to think it was a nonsense song like "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."  Till I was like in my 20s.

Same here. Thought it was maresy dotes and dosey dotes and little lamsey divey.


I believe it is ... subby was just that good...
 
2013-07-10 07:14:38 PM  
As to why the dogs are dead--simple, they were worrying livestock, and in a LOT of states that in and of ITSELF is not only a valid reason for stockowners to shoot a dog...but in many places, it's actually mandatory they do so.

You see, dogs worrying livestock directly take money out of the mouths of stockowners--even if they don't kill them, they can worry the animals sick (which is a big deal if they're used for show), can injure the animal (likewise), and can in the case of goats even stress them to death.

Live in a rural area?  If you love your dog, you will keep it under control at ALL TIMES.
 
2013-07-10 07:16:18 PM  
Homeowner did absolutely nothing wrong. The dogs were on his property, attacking his livestock. End of story.
 
2013-07-10 07:30:55 PM  

Great Porn Dragon: (which is a big deal if they're used for show)


A lot of people -also passing a judgement on the dog owners here- do not know what that means. "Show goats" isn't like the Kennel Club type thing for dogs and their bias toward family pets, even humanizing them as their "children", severely taints their view of the subject. It's ignorance mixed with a little superiority complex. The reactions of apologists posting above demonstrates that. IMHO the dog owners should be charged with animal neglect, fined, and pay restitution for the lost goats; it appears the farmer is turning the other cheek.
 
2013-07-10 07:32:40 PM  
What a scumbag.  The goat was already dead, there was nothing to defend, and the dogs were beloved pets. It would have been another story if he had already complained and the dog owners did nothing.
 
2013-07-10 07:35:02 PM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs,  after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.


Why would you want those dogs to come back and kill the rest of your goats? Shoot them dead and you'll never have to worry about them again. And they would have come back, too.
 
2013-07-10 07:36:09 PM  
Are those the actual lyrics to that ditty? I'm an old goat and I never knew.
//// Off my lawn.
 
2013-07-10 07:42:53 PM  

Poowaddins: wellreadneck: I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock  (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone el

Livestock is typically worth more than a vegetable garden, you know.

Growing up on a poultry farm, we've had to shoot our share of neighborhood dogs that were left to run loose and ended up jumping over or digging under fences to get to our livestock. We typically gave the owners two verbal warnings when we returned their dogs and an itemized bill for the livestock killed. The third time, though, their dead dog got delivered to their doorstep with another bill.

I have far more respect for foxes and coyotes who actually eattheir kills. But domesticated dogs, they'll kill 100+ chickens for the sheer thrill of the killing and not eat a single one. Nothing under the sun makes a farmer more livid.

We've had the sheriff department called on us umpteen times by "city people" who moved out to the country and suddenly have a dead dog. The deputies typically tell them that they had two warnings to keep their dogs hooked up and under control, and that we were well within our rights to shoot them the first time it happened.

Shiat happens, keep better control of your dogs and this wouldn't happen.


Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?
 
2013-07-10 07:48:24 PM  

BenJammin: What a scumbag.  The goat was already dead, there was nothing to defend, and the dogs were beloved pets. It would have been another story if he had already complained and the dog owners did nothing.


....are you a troll or a farkwit?
 
2013-07-10 07:49:00 PM  
Regardless, Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead.

Because they had to suffer the consequences of your terrible irresponsibility. Next stupid question you intolerable coont?
 
2013-07-10 07:49:35 PM  

wellreadneck: Poowaddins: wellreadneck: I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock  (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone el

Livestock is typically worth more than a vegetable garden, you know.

Growing up on a poultry farm, we've had to shoot our share of neighborhood dogs that were left to run loose and ended up jumping over or digging under fences to get to our livestock. We typically gave the owners two verbal warnings when we returned their dogs and an itemized bill for the livestock killed. The third time, though, their dead dog got delivered to their doorstep with another bill.

I have far more respect for foxes and coyotes who actually eattheir kills. But domesticated dogs, they'll kill 100+ chickens for the sheer thrill of the killing and not eat a single one. Nothing under the sun makes a farmer more livid.

We've had the sheriff department called on us umpteen times by "city people" who moved out to the country and suddenly have a dead dog. The deputies typically tell them that they had two warnings to keep their dogs hooked up and under control, and that we were well within our rights to shoot them the first time it happened.

Shiat happens, keep better control of your dogs and this wouldn't happen.

Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?


I don't think it has to do with the worth of the animal so much as the lack of control the owner has over it.  If your $300 goat is not where it should be and destroys $50 worth of tomatoes, then yes the tomato owner has the right to protect his/her property.
 
2013-07-10 07:51:42 PM  

wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?


You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?
 
2013-07-10 07:52:01 PM  

Mr. Cat Poop: Diogenes: I used to think it was a nonsense song like "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."  Till I was like in my 20s.

Same here. Thought it was maresy dotes and dosey dotes and little lamsey divey.


Don't feel preggo on that one! Ida put monies on it!
 
2013-07-10 07:53:23 PM  

OregonVet: wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?

You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?


Not to mention that if net value determines if you get to kill something, he just declared any CEO can murder with impunity since his bank account is bigger.
 
2013-07-10 08:07:42 PM  
Speaking as someone who had to shoot my own dog after she killed one of the neighbor's rabbits...

/nuff said
 
2013-07-10 08:10:13 PM  

phalamir: OregonVet: wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?

You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?

Not to mention that if net value determines if you get to kill something, he just declared any CEO can murder with impunity since his bank account is bigger.


No, it was pointed out that the net value of the livestock was more than the value of the garden. I pointed out that the dog is more valuable than the goat.
 
2013-07-10 08:15:39 PM  
In the case of Goats v Tomatoes.

Historically, livestock have been much more protected then plant crops if only because the meat or milk is perceived as being a much deeper investment of time and money and individually the animals are much more valuable to the market. If you shot the goat breaking into your heirloom tomatoes, and you hadn't taken near herculean steps to prevent livestock from doing so, then you would likely be on the hook for the cost of the goat minus the value of the damage to your property. Hell, many of the western states damn near had civil wars over the issue of rancher vs farm, and in nearly every case the government sided with the ranchers, and the problem was only solved by the invention of cheap twisted barbed wire fencing and the grain farmers fencing in every square inch of their property and maintaining the fences immaculately.

/ If you dogs attack livestock, they are going to get shot
// If your dogs harass livestock, your likely going to get told once and then the are going to get shot.
/// If your dogs crosses onto a farmer's property and they know its yours, you *might* get called twice.
//// I wonder if my mom's dog has been shot yet.
 
2013-07-10 08:16:13 PM  

wellreadneck: phalamir: OregonVet: wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?

You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?

Not to mention that if net value determines if you get to kill something, he just declared any CEO can murder with impunity since his bank account is bigger.

No, it was pointed out that the net value of the livestock was more than the value of the garden. I pointed out that the dog is more valuable than the goat.


You brought up price in the first place.
 
2013-07-10 08:20:01 PM  
*Sigh*

What if those dogs broke into your yard and killed your DOG. Not a goat?

Exactly.

I don't understand how some people don't see the black and white of this.
 
2013-07-10 08:23:16 PM  
Wow, this is a tough story. I'm very sad the dogs had to pay for the owners being pieces of shiat, and I understand why the goat owner did what he did. I might have tried to corral the dogs and force the owner to pay for the goats, but I'm not sure I'd have it in me to shoot them.

Is it really impossible to get something goat-scented and smack them with it when they go sniffing around the goat pen, so they associate the smell with hurt and "bad dog"?
 
2013-07-10 08:23:46 PM  

phalamir: wellreadneck: phalamir: OregonVet: wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?

You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?

Not to mention that if net value determines if you get to kill something, he just declared any CEO can murder with impunity since his bank account is bigger.

No, it was pointed out that the net value of the livestock was more than the value of the garden. I pointed out that the dog is more valuable than the goat.

You brought up price in the first place.


Show me.
 
2013-07-10 08:25:15 PM  

Astorix: Mr. Cat Poop: Diogenes: I used to think it was a nonsense song like "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious."  Till I was like in my 20s.

Same here. Thought it was maresy dotes and dosey dotes and little lamsey divey.

Or Marzy Doats and Dozy Doats and little lamsy divy.


It is a nonsense song, with the lyrics "Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey. A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you?", but it's meant to sound like what subby put in the headline (which the song itself points out in the bridge if you ever hear the whole thing - it's on a lot of albums for little kids).
 
2013-07-10 08:26:29 PM  
Subby,  You make my head spin.
 
2013-07-10 08:28:05 PM  

wellreadneck: phalamir: wellreadneck: phalamir: OregonVet: wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?

You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?

Not to mention that if net value determines if you get to kill something, he just declared any CEO can murder with impunity since his bank account is bigger.

No, it was pointed out that the net value of the livestock was more than the value of the garden. I pointed out that the dog is more valuable than the goat.

You brought up price in the first place.

Show me.

wellreadneck: I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock  (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone el

Livestock is typically worth more than a vegetable garden, you know.

Growing up on a poultry farm, we've had to shoot our share of neighborhood dogs that were left to run loose and ended up jumping over or digging under fences to get to our livestock. We typically gave the owners two verbal warnings when we returned their dogs and an itemized bill for the livestock killed. The third time, though, their dead dog got delivered to their doorstep with another bill.

I have far more respect for foxes and coyotes who actually eattheir kills. But domesticated dogs, they'll kill 100+ chickens for the sheer thrill of the killing and not eat a single one. Nothing under the sun makes a farmer more livid.

We've had the sheriff department called on us umpteen times by "city people" who moved out to the country and suddenly have a dead dog. The deputies typically tell them that they had two warnings to keep their dogs hooked up and under control, and that we were well within our rights to shoot them the first time it happened.

Shiat happens, keep better control of your dogs and this wouldn't happen.

Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat,


Umm, there.
 
2013-07-10 08:34:11 PM  

SheltemDragon: In the case of Goats v Tomatoes.

Historically, livestock have been much more protected then plant crops if only because the meat or milk is perceived as being a much deeper investment of time and money and individually the animals are much more valuable to the market. If you shot the goat breaking into your heirloom tomatoes, and you hadn't taken near herculean steps to prevent livestock from doing so, then you would likely be on the hook for the cost of the goat minus the value of the damage to your property. Hell, many of the western states damn near had civil wars over the issue of rancher vs farm, and in nearly every case the government sided with the ranchers, and the problem was only solved by the invention of cheap twisted barbed wire fencing and the grain farmers fencing in every square inch of their property and maintaining the fences immaculately.

/ If you dogs attack livestock, they are going to get shot
// If your dogs harass livestock, your likely going to get told once and then the are going to get shot.
/// If your dogs crosses onto a farmer's property and they know its yours, you *might* get called twice.
//// I wonder if my mom's dog has been shot yet.


Saw right through my "range war" troll, didn't you?
 
2013-07-10 08:35:53 PM  

phalamir: wellreadneck: phalamir: wellreadneck: phalamir: OregonVet: wellreadneck: Of course, you're correct but somehow it just doesn't seem fair. If someone should kill several thousand dollars worth of escaped St, Bernards over a $300 worth of goat, why shouldn't someone kill a $300 escaped goat over $50 worth of heirloom tomatoes?

You realize that this is really dumb insofar as questions go, right?

Not to mention that if net value determines if you get to kill something, he just declared any CEO can murder with impunity since his bank account is bigger.

No, it was pointed out that the net value of the livestock was more than the value of the garden. I pointed out that the dog is more valuable than the goat.

You brought up price in the first place.

Show me.

wellreadneck: I can't remember how many times I was tasked with running livestock  (neighbors', family's, and our own) out of the vegetable garden in my youth. Even though they had often completely destroyed everything after breaking down the fence, it never once occurred to me to shoot an animal, especially one belonging to someone el

Livestock is typically worth more than a vegetable garden, you know.

Growing up on a poultry farm, we've had to shoot our share of neighborhood dogs that were left to run loose and ended up jumping over or digging under fences to get to our livestock. We typically gave the owners two verbal warnings when we returned their dogs and an itemized bill for the livestock killed. The third time, though, their dead dog got delivered to their doorstep with another bill.

I have far more respect for foxes and coyotes who actually eattheir kills. But domesticated dogs, they'll kill 100+ chickens for the sheer thrill of the killing and not eat a single one. Nothing under the sun makes a farmer more livid.

We've had the sheriff department called on us umpteen times by "city people" who moved out to the country and suddenly have a dead dog. The deputies typically tell them that they had two wa ...


There
 
2013-07-10 08:41:23 PM  

prjindigo: If I was the goater I'd take the dogass to civil court for losses and include the farking ammo.
Dogs killing livestock is a federal crime.


THIS... want to go overboard and ask for "ANSWERS!" that would be the answers they would get.
 
2013-07-10 09:15:41 PM  
popnewsday.files.wordpress.com
Inconsolable
 
2013-07-10 09:17:25 PM  
Is it really impossible to get something goat-scented and smack them with it when they go sniffing around the goat pen, so they associate the smell with hurt and "bad dog"?


Does not always work....but....I have seen a farmer take a dead chicken and beat his dog so badly with it, that guts were a flyin', head came off, dog was cowering and that chicken beating continued until the feet was the only thing left in the farmer's hand.  From that time on whenever a chicken even crossed that dogs path ...he looked the other way......and took off......

Livestock are "babies" to most farmer's too.....
 
2013-07-10 09:52:18 PM  

Vector R: Wow, this is a tough story. I'm very sad the dogs had to pay for the owners being pieces of shiat, and I understand why the goat owner did what he did. I might have tried to corral the dogs and force the owner to pay for the goats, but I'm not sure I'd have it in me to shoot them.

Is it really impossible to get something goat-scented and smack them with it when they go sniffing around the goat pen, so they associate the smell with hurt and "bad dog"?


Are you referring to the goat owner purchasing goat scent and smacking the St. Bernards around when they get near his goat pens?  Or are you suggesting that the dog owner purchase goat scent and follow the St. Bernards to the goat pens and then smack them around?

LOL!  What a city slicker.
 
2013-07-10 10:06:49 PM  
To all the people going on about calling the owners and/or shooing the dogs away:

A female Saint Bernard generally weighs in at 120-150 lbs. A male can go up to 200 lbs no problem.  Are you seriously telling me that you'd expect anyone in their right minds to confront a pack of dogs who have just killed livestock and have a combined weight of about 500 lbs?! Really? When you don't know anything about the temperament and/or disease status of said dogs?

I'm not a farmer and I don't own a gun, but if I saw three Saint Bernards chowing down on something they killed, I'd get the hell out of there and call Animal Control (because there is an AC where I live). I would never approach them.

The dog owners were at fault. The farmer reacted appropriately. If you don't want farmers to shoot your dogs, don't let them get loose and don't live in the country.

/former Saint owner
//had to put her down for aggression issues (long story, and no, there was no alternative)
///not getting a kick...
 
2013-07-10 10:09:47 PM  

WordyGrrl: When he had to replace a deceased (it had a long, happy farm life) working dog with a new one, he ended up shooting the new dog because it killed two baby goats. That "baby animal killing thing" is not something you can train away with obedience classes. If a dog will kill one animal, it'll kill another.


I remember reading that a properly socialized guard dog will actually help with the birthing of any animals in the herd - helping to clean up the animal(and eating the afterbirth).  Maybe not 'nice' or sanitary, but they don't typically kill the babies.
 
2013-07-10 10:12:32 PM  
Did it happen inna gadda da vida?
 
2013-07-10 10:19:18 PM  
FTA:  Amy Fluit and her family were having a hard time Tuesday believing their neighbor shot their three Saint Bernards instead of calling to tell them the dogs were eating one of his prize goats.

...and? If I discovered that your pets were eating my pets, your pets would be dead long before I picked up the phone. Seems reasonable to me.

Amy, here's a thought - now, I'm just sandboxing here, but, if you kept your damned pets under control, or at least on your own property, you wouldn't be the confused idiot presented in the article.
 
2013-07-10 10:37:54 PM  
What kind of craphole has no laws against dogs roaming free? Seriously!
 
2013-07-10 10:46:29 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: Vector R: Wow, this is a tough story. I'm very sad the dogs had to pay for the owners being pieces of shiat, and I understand why the goat owner did what he did. I might have tried to corral the dogs and force the owner to pay for the goats, but I'm not sure I'd have it in me to shoot them.

Is it really impossible to get something goat-scented and smack them with it when they go sniffing around the goat pen, so they associate the smell with hurt and "bad dog"?

Are you referring to the goat owner purchasing goat scent and smacking the St. Bernards around when they get near his goat pens?  Or are you suggesting that the dog owner purchase goat scent and follow the St. Bernards to the goat pens and then smack them around?

LOL!  What a city slicker.


The owners of the dogs doing something like that, not the livestock owner. SweetDickens summed it up really well, and that's exactly what I was referring to.

I may be more accustomed to the urban and suburban environments, but I do know where our two dogs are at all times. I can see where such training may not work though, as no amount of smacking our new little guy with the cat food dishes has made him stop eating the cat food, he's just sneakier about it. :/

/Now the cats eat their food up out of his reach. :)
 
2013-07-10 10:57:07 PM  

seventypercent: [welcometotwinpeaks.com image 290x290]


done in three.  impressive.
 
2013-07-10 10:59:14 PM  

Dazrin: If the dogs had already killed one goat the day before and then another goat the day they were shot, who knows what they would have done if they were left alive to continue on. Yesterday a goat, today a goat, tomorrow a kid?

GUNS they could have repelled this viscous attack.

/jk
 
2013-07-10 11:01:10 PM  

ski9600: Dazrin: If the dogs had already killed one goat the day before and then another goat the day they were shot, who knows what they would have done if they were left alive to continue on. Yesterday a goat, today a goat, tomorrow a kid? GUNS they could have repelled this viscous attack.

/jk


Oops, forgot to include this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQMbXvn2RNI

/love that one
 
2013-07-10 11:09:56 PM  

Jesus McSordid: What kind of craphole has no laws against dogs roaming free? Seriously!


Its a small, largely pleasant rural town of about 2500. Roaming dogs are not a problem. Kids and dogs wander freely together in their neighborhoods. Nice place to raise kids. Houses are neat, streets are clean, crime was almost non-existent until the gov't built subsidized housing and shipped in welfare moms with petty crook boyfriends and is still not bad.

Loose dogs are not a problem, there are no packs of strays wandering around. A dog can be loose, but all dogs must be owned by someone. This only made the news because the owner is a doorknob.
 
2013-07-10 11:10:16 PM  

Vector R: Psycoholic_Slag: Vector R: Wow, this is a tough story. I'm very sad the dogs had to pay for the owners being pieces of shiat, and I understand why the goat owner did what he did. I might have tried to corral the dogs and force the owner to pay for the goats, but I'm not sure I'd have it in me to shoot them.

Is it really impossible to get something goat-scented and smack them with it when they go sniffing around the goat pen, so they associate the smell with hurt and "bad dog"?

Are you referring to the goat owner purchasing goat scent and smacking the St. Bernards around when they get near his goat pens?  Or are you suggesting that the dog owner purchase goat scent and follow the St. Bernards to the goat pens and then smack them around?

LOL!  What a city slicker.

The owners of the dogs doing something like that, not the livestock owner. SweetDickens summed it up really well, and that's exactly what I was referring to.

I may be more accustomed to the urban and suburban environments, but I do know where our two dogs are at all times. I can see where such training may not work though, as no amount of smacking our new little guy with the cat food dishes has made him stop eating the cat food, he's just sneakier about it. :/

/Now the cats eat their food up out of his reach. :)


Fair enough.  I grew up in the boonies where we always had livestock and I'm accustomed to hunting and fishing as well.  That kind of upbringing gives me a respect and understanding of animals that the average suburbanite will never have.  I have a good friend who lives on a ranch in Montana and has several working dogs that he treats like his children.  When he and his wife had a new baby girl several years back, one of the dogs for whatever reason took a disliking to the toddler and bit the child on the face.  My friend put the dog that he loved into the truck, took him out for a drive and shot him.  You got to know your priorities.
 
2013-07-10 11:37:14 PM  

SweetDickens: Does not always work....but....I have seen a farmer take a dead chicken and beat his dog so badly with it, that guts were a flyin', head came off, dog was cowering and that chicken beating continued until the feet was the only thing left in the farmer's hand. From that time on whenever a chicken even crossed that dogs path ...he looked the other way......and took off......


Yeah, I saw that too, when I read "Grapes Of Wrath"...
 
2013-07-10 11:42:33 PM  

LargeCanine: Its a small, largely pleasant rural town of about 2500. Roaming dogs are not a problem. Kids and dogs wander freely together in their neighborhoods. Nice place to raise kids. Houses are neat, streets are clean, crime was almost non-existent until the gov't built subsidized housing and shipped in welfare moms with petty crook boyfriends and is still not bad.

Loose dogs are not a problem, there are no packs of strays wandering around. A dog can be loose, but all dogs must be owned by someone. This only made the news because the owner is a doorknob.


But you see the problem, don't you? Those knobs can't be prosecuted even though they've let a pack of freakin' Cujos loose. You can have these statutes without ever enforcing them, but when some dumbarse takes advantage, you can then at least prosecute them. And these clowns really need prosecuting.

It's just fortunate the goat owner nailed them this time, or they might kill a kid (human type) next time.

Also, shiat happens. People should keep their dogs restrained when they're not there to control them. I'm not saying they need to be on a leash all the time, but you can't assume that every dog is safe to roam free, even if they're well trained. My niece has scars on her face from when she tried to hug a German Shepherd when she was 3 years old in a country town. The owner was about 100 feet behind the dog, and had no way of knowing some kid was going to grab it. You have to treat a dog like a loaded weapon, always.
 
2013-07-10 11:55:10 PM  
Six out of 8 local commenters say "tough shiat, lady."
One says, "You give a warning, let 'em pay for dead livestock, and give them a second chance before shooting."
One's blaming the goat owner for having a shiatty fence. *facepalm.jpg*
 
2013-07-11 12:19:29 AM  
Ah ah ah subby. Reminds me of my first ever green light on fark:

http://www.fark.com/comments/2975100/Mares-eat-oats-does-eat-oats-to dd y-Brits-say-Blimey

I still remember it, obviously.
 
2013-07-11 03:00:23 AM  

semiotix: I'm going to go way out on a psychological limb and say that you don't shoot all three of your next-door neighbor's dogs,  after they've killed your prize goats and without anyone or anything else in danger, unless at least one of the following things is true.

1) You really farking hate your neighbors already,
2) You were really psyched to get to shoot a bunch of giant dogs, or
3) You were so blinded with rage over the loss of your show-goats that you went into that red mist for a while, and when you came out all the dogs were dead and you were holding a smoking rifle.

These weren't wolves, or foxes, or even strays. If it happened any way remotely like what's described in the article, the goat-shower is either a malicious asshole, or way too quick on the trigger finger. Or both.

That said,

Fluit says she won't be satisfied until she knows why her dogs are dead

You know exactly why your dogs are dead, and why they'd still be alive if they had anyone but you for an owner. Satisfied?


Doesn't matter if he's an ass.  I lived in the country and a farmer told me one day that our dog had been chasing his cattle.  I told him, that if he saw him do it, go ahead and shoot him.  Of course, he never did because our dog preferred small game to cattle.   It would have been sad, but you can't have a dog doing something like that.
 
2013-07-11 04:45:47 AM  

kroonermanblack: BenJammin: What a scumbag.  The goat was already dead, there was nothing to defend, and the dogs were beloved pets. It would have been another story if he had already complained and the dog owners did nothing.

....are you a troll or a farkwit?


Troll.
 
2013-07-11 07:53:49 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Six out of 8 local commenters say "tough shiat, lady."
One says, "You give a warning, let 'em pay for dead livestock, and give them a second chance before shooting."
One's blaming the goat owner for having a shiatty fence. *facepalm.jpg*


There's always one who thinks the rape victim shouldn't have dressed so provocatively.
 
2013-07-11 08:59:41 AM  
Did it used to be common to keep deer on farms?  I thought that was the whole point of having a kingly hunting reserve.  Also, dumbest song ever as I have only met two teachers that used the correct words.
 
2013-07-11 12:12:11 PM  

kimmygibblershomework: Did it used to be common to keep deer on farms?  I thought that was the whole point of having a kingly hunting reserve.  Also, dumbest song ever as I have only met two teachers that used the correct words.


the proper term for a female goat is a doe. A male is a buck. Most folks don't know that and call them nannies and billies.
 
2013-07-11 12:45:02 PM  

kimmygibblershomework: Also, dumbest song ever as I have only met two teachers that used the correct words.


Errrmmm, that's kind of the point of the song.
 
2013-07-11 01:45:19 PM  
More details here:  http://kiwaradio.com/local-news/two-show-goats-and-three-st-bernards- d ead-in-controversial-rock-rapids-area-incident/

Turns out that the dogs were seen eating goats on two different days, shots were fired both times, and the owners were out of town and unreachable.  Since no one was home to take responsibility for properly confining the dogs, the farmer took reasonable steps to prevent them from returning a THIRD time.
 
2013-07-11 01:47:40 PM  
^^ Dog's owner is also posting in the comments of the above article and trying to make her case (poorly).
 
2013-07-11 04:24:43 PM  

Eeyore004: ^^ Dog's owner is also posting in the comments of the above article and trying to make her case (poorly).


high percentage of stupid in the comments. Wonder how many of them are the owner's friends.
 
2013-07-11 08:17:44 PM  

dittybopper: kimmygibblershomework: Also, dumbest song ever as I have only met two teachers that used the correct words.

Errrmmm, that's kind of the point of the song.


It was written to help kids poop.
 
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