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(Al Jazeera)   Fire up your engines, conspiracy theorists: Documents obtained through FOIA show that the U.S. bankrolled anti-Morsi efforts in Egypt   (aljazeera.com) divider line 61
    More: Obvious, Mohamed Morsi, Freedom of Information Act, United States, Egypt, conspiracy theorists, democracy in the Middle East, September 11 attacks, East Region  
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986 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Jul 2013 at 2:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-10 12:55:23 PM
shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?
 
2013-07-10 12:58:51 PM
They also gave aid to Egypt. The language of this article is pretty anti-American. It's not like the Americans ran the Egyptian government into the ground on purpose or giving tourism ministry jobs to people who mass murdered tourists or anything.
 
2013-07-10 01:02:39 PM
This is rather amusing in that I've been seeing right-wingers gloating over how Obama must be butthurt that his best muslim buddy Morsi was ousted.

That said, this greatly undermines the moral position of Egypt's military ousting a democratically elected president.
 
2013-07-10 01:17:53 PM
Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.
 
2013-07-10 01:23:02 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.


Or we could just stop being the world's police force
 
2013-07-10 01:28:11 PM

Aarontology: TuteTibiImperes: Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.

Or we could just stop being the world's police force


We could, but that would allow China to step in and start exerting more influence.  We benefit from our position of essentially controlling a great deal of world trade, and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.
 
2013-07-10 01:30:32 PM

make me some tea: This is rather amusing in that I've been seeing right-wingers gloating over how Obama must be butthurt that his best muslim buddy Morsi was ousted.

That said, this greatly undermines the moral position of Egypt's military ousting a democratically elected president.


Yeah, I wonder how the people derping about how the Muslim Brotherhood had infiltrated the Obama Administration will manage to make this fit into their "Fartbongo is a sekrit Muslin" narrative.  They'll find a way.
 
2013-07-10 01:33:19 PM
Morsi was deposed by Egypts military... America funds that military. God job finding that money trail.
 
2013-07-10 01:33:37 PM

jake_lex: make me some tea: This is rather amusing in that I've been seeing right-wingers gloating over how Obama must be butthurt that his best muslim buddy Morsi was ousted.

That said, this greatly undermines the moral position of Egypt's military ousting a democratically elected president.

Yeah, I wonder how the people derping about how the Muslim Brotherhood had infiltrated the Obama Administration will manage to make this fit into their "Fartbongo is a sekrit Muslin" narrative.  They'll find a way.


Remember who you're dealing with
www.alan.com
 
2013-07-10 01:53:35 PM

jake_lex: Yeah, I wonder how the people derping about how the Muslim Brotherhood had infiltrated the Obama Administration will manage to make this fit into their "Fartbongo is a sekrit Muslin" narrative.  They'll find a way.


Oh, you know it. I'm sure they already have.
 
2013-07-10 01:54:41 PM
i.imgur.com

That's impossible. I was infromed that President Obama is the Muslim Brotherhood's key and chief ally, if not their main mullah.
 
2013-07-10 02:05:32 PM

TuteTibiImperes: We could, but that would allow China to step in and start exerting more influence. We benefit from our position of essentially controlling a great deal of world trade, and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.


We can't afford to continue to throw out military and money at every single third world shiat hole, which does nothing but create later problems in exchange for short term gains. China is going to be on the rise, it's inevitable. Creating Cold War 2 with China would be even worse for economy than not getting involved everywhere as more and more of our resources and energy are dedicated to a new Cold War.

And if we can't exploit third world labor and resources to the degree we've become entitled, we would have to start investing in nations closer to home, or even better, in the United States thus strengthening ourselves and our hemisphere as a whole.
 
2013-07-10 02:14:22 PM
Okay. Good.
 
2013-07-10 02:15:47 PM

make me some tea: jake_lex: Yeah, I wonder how the people derping about how the Muslim Brotherhood had infiltrated the Obama Administration will manage to make this fit into their "Fartbongo is a sekrit Muslin" narrative.  They'll find a way.

Oh, you know it. I'm sure they already have.


I'm sure it'll fall under the heading of Taqqiya or something.
 
2013-07-10 02:17:01 PM
Of course they did. The muslim brotherhood is rabidly anti-American and Egypt was one of our few "allies" in the area.

I think it was money well spent.
 
2013-07-10 02:18:17 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Aarontology: TuteTibiImperes: Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.

Or we could just stop being the world's police force

We could, but that would allow China to step in and start exerting more influence.  We benefit from our position of essentially controlling a great deal of world trade, and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.


We might only be able to put flat screens in half the rooms in our houses. Utterly unacceptable. Some Egyptians are just gonna have to die.
 
2013-07-10 02:18:22 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Aarontology: TuteTibiImperes: Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.

Or we could just stop being the world's police force

We could, but that would allow China to step in and start exerting more influence.  We benefit from our position of essentially controlling a great deal of world trade, and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.


Which is why the PRC is dumping a metric fuktun of aid to countries on tje continent of Africa. They know where the next generation's natural resources will be coming from.
 
2013-07-10 02:24:11 PM

dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?


We know. It's not rocket science. We encouraged the Arab Spring to encourage democracy, then undermined democracy when it didn't go our way. We're not interested in democracy - heck, we can't pull it off here at home. We're interested in ensuring that our guys run the Middle East, and the Muslim Brotherhood aren't our guys. We don't give a rat's ass what the Egyptian voter thinks - if they don't get it right, we'll ensure that someone does.
 
2013-07-10 02:25:22 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: jake_lex: make me some tea: This is rather amusing in that I've been seeing right-wingers gloating over how Obama must be butthurt that his best muslim buddy Morsi was ousted.

That said, this greatly undermines the moral position of Egypt's military ousting a democratically elected president.

Yeah, I wonder how the people derping about how the Muslim Brotherhood had infiltrated the Obama Administration will manage to make this fit into their "Fartbongo is a sekrit Muslin" narrative.  They'll find a way.

Remember who you're dealing with
[www.alan.com image 300x225]


Man, you exist at the edge, striding right up to the tough issues and making the tough call... you should have your own blog, but it would probably suck.
 
2013-07-10 02:29:25 PM

SpectroBoy: Of course they did. The muslim brotherhood is rabidly anti-American and Egypt was one of our few "allies" in the area.

I think it was money well spent.


Rather short-sighted. We spent money for the Arab Spring, which gave us Morsi. We spent money for anti-Morsi agitation, which gave us... what? Think about it - Egyptians aren't stupid, and they've figured out that we're the puppeteer for this particular show. When the military returns control to a democratic government, what do you think is going to happen?
 
2013-07-10 02:32:31 PM

Ned Stark: TuteTibiImperes: Aarontology: TuteTibiImperes: Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.

Or we could just stop being the world's police force

We could, but that would allow China to step in and start exerting more influence.  We benefit from our position of essentially controlling a great deal of world trade, and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.

We might only be able to put flat screens in half the rooms in our houses. Utterly unacceptable. Some Egyptians are just gonna have to die.


In this particular case Morsi wasn't just bad for the US, he was bad for the people of Egypt.  Hardline theocratic Muslim Brotherhood government would have disenfranchised a significant portion of the country.

2wolves: TuteTibiImperes: Aarontology: TuteTibiImperes: Morsi was a problem, so I don't really have a problem with this.  Of course, it's a huge double standard because we'd be livid if we found out other countries were bankrolling certain political groups in the US to further their own agenda, but such is the world we live in - if we're going to be called on to be the world's police force, we might as well do it in the way that gives us the most bang for the buck.

Or we could just stop being the world's police force

We could, but that would allow China to step in and start exerting more influence.  We benefit from our position of essentially controlling a great deal of world trade, and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.

Which is why the PRC is dumping a metric fuktun of aid to countries on tje continent of Africa. They know where the next generation's natural resources will be coming from.


That's one of the big reasons for Obama's recent Africa trip - we've fallen behind in building contacts and making inroads over there, and we need to catch up.
 
2013-07-10 02:33:12 PM
As someone who's done extensive program evaluation work for MEPI's Post Arab spring grantmaking work I've got to say this is some seriously weak sauce. US government agencies like MEPI, NED and DRL will fund just about anybody who submits a plausible proposal related to democracy building, freedom of press, civil society building, women's rights, human rights, religious freedom, etc.

I don't see why it should come as a surprise to anyone that the people in Egypt who are submitting those proposals and working to support those goals and ideals might also support the removal of Morsi, given that he spent his first year as president undermining democracy, freedom of press, civil society, women's rights, human rights, religious freedom, etc.
 
2013-07-10 02:33:13 PM

FormlessOne: dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?

We know. It's not rocket science. We encouraged the Arab Spring to encourage democracy, then undermined democracy when it didn't go our way. We're not interested in democracy - heck, we can't pull it off here at home. We're interested in ensuring that our guys run the Middle East, and the Muslim Brotherhood aren't our guys. We don't give a rat's ass what the Egyptian voter thinks - if they don't get it right, we'll ensure that someone does.


To be fair, the Muslim Brotherhood doesn't care what the Egyptian voters think, either.  They quickly put together a large grassroots campaign and said all the right things to get people to vote for them, and then promptly adopted a political agenda expressly designed to gut the democratic process and solidify their power.

Hmm...where have I heard that before?
 
2013-07-10 02:35:47 PM

FormlessOne: dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?

We know. It's not rocket science. We encouraged the Arab Spring to encourage democracy, then undermined democracy when it didn't go our way. We're not interested in democracy - heck, we can't pull it off here at home. We're interested in ensuring that our guys run the Middle East, and the Muslim Brotherhood aren't our guys. We don't give a rat's ass what the Egyptian voter thinks - if they don't get it right, we'll ensure that someone does.


Looks like you missed the pun.
 
2013-07-10 02:36:21 PM

FormlessOne: dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?

We know. It's not rocket science. We encouraged the Arab Spring to encourage democracy, then undermined democracy when it didn't go our way. We're not interested in democracy - heck, we can't pull it off here at home. We're interested in ensuring that our guys run the Middle East, and the Muslim Brotherhood aren't our guys. We don't give a rat's ass what the Egyptian voter thinks - if they don't get it right, we'll ensure that someone does.


Dude! He is talking about Morse code.
 
2013-07-10 02:39:44 PM

TuteTibiImperes: and letting China assume that position would hurt us economically.


Would the impact be less or more than the amount of money we spend every year to maintain our position?
It might be nice trying to be 21st century Germany for a while instead of 19th century Great Britain.
 
2013-07-10 02:40:21 PM

SpectroBoy: Of course they did. The muslim brotherhood is rabidly anti-American and Egypt was one of our few "allies" in the area.

I think it was money well spent.


This.

Add to that the fact that Morsi and his ilk weren't just firing up the war engine to aim at America, they were also trying to strip the democracy out of the country, or at least enough of it that the Muslim Brotherhood would never be out of power.  I have little doubt the only reason we spent money on it was because of the "anti-American" part, but it probably made it easier to spend the money knowing that the guy was also getting ready to screw over anyone in the country who wasn't ready for Taliban II: Electric Boogaloo.
 
2013-07-10 02:44:42 PM
How the hell did Al Jazeera get documents about something like this through a FOIA request in only a week or two? FOIA requests take forever and are usually redacted like crazy.

*reads article*
This article says a lot of these funds started in 2008 and went through 2011 to oust Mubarak. I don't see a single thing that says the US specifically funded anti-Morsi protests, it's just a bunch of conjecture. This whole article is retardedly off base. The dark headline and the lede on the article make it sound like this is a new thing.
 
2013-07-10 02:49:58 PM

dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?


My father, a lifelong ham, went to his grave still fuming over that - after god knows how many years.
 
2013-07-10 02:51:10 PM

Aarontology: Or we could just stop being the world's Israel's police force

.

ftfy
 
2013-07-10 02:57:53 PM
To be fair, I hear he rides a cock horse.
 
2013-07-10 03:01:17 PM

Moosecakes: How the hell did Al Jazeera get documents about something like this through a FOIA request in only a week or two? FOIA requests take forever and are usually redacted like crazy.

*reads article*
This article says a lot of these funds started in 2008 and went through 2011 to oust Mubarak. I don't see a single thing that says the US specifically funded anti-Morsi protests, it's just a bunch of conjecture. This whole article is retardedly off base. The dark headline and the lede on the article make it sound like this is a new thing.


I was wondering that even without rtfa.
 
2013-07-10 03:05:38 PM
The generals are the ones that kick back all of that cash to us, and that's exactly why we won't cancel aid even though we're legally obligated to after a military coup.
 
2013-07-10 03:12:40 PM

unlikely: To be fair, I hear he rides a cock horse.


Possibly NSFW
 
2013-07-10 03:18:59 PM
I like that now any insane theory has to be given equal consideration thanks to just how expansive and invasive this administration is. Oh we financed a coup? We implanted Morsi with a cybernetic chip? He only sings old Smiths tunes now?

Thanks a lot, Obama.
 
2013-07-10 03:20:18 PM

FormlessOne: dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?

We know. It's not rocket science. We encouraged the Arab Spring to encourage democracy, then undermined democracy when it didn't go our way. We're not interested in democracy - heck, we can't pull it off here at home. We're interested in ensuring that our guys run the Middle East, and the Muslim Brotherhood aren't our guys. We don't give a rat's ass what the Egyptian voter thinks - if they don't get it right, we'll ensure that someone does.


"I earned political capital, and now I intend to spend It" President of the Nile country
 
2013-07-10 03:27:59 PM

Gyrfalcon: Moosecakes: How the hell did Al Jazeera get documents about something like this through a FOIA request in only a week or two? FOIA requests take forever and are usually redacted like crazy.

*reads article*
This article says a lot of these funds started in 2008 and went through 2011 to oust Mubarak. I don't see a single thing that says the US specifically funded anti-Morsi protests, it's just a bunch of conjecture. This whole article is retardedly off base. The dark headline and the lede on the article make it sound like this is a new thing.

I was wondering that even without rtfa.


Yea, I was thinking it takes awhile for stuff to come out through FOIA but I wouldn't be surprised if we did help oust Morsi.
 
2013-07-10 03:28:32 PM
Hee-Haw!
Obama really showed them A-Rabs!
 
2013-07-10 03:29:41 PM

Aarontology: Or we could just stop being the world's police force


It's hard to put together a scenario where we do that and still remain a first-world country.
 
2013-07-10 03:40:49 PM

make me some tea: This is rather amusing in that I've been seeing right-wingers gloating over how Obama must be butthurt that his best muslim buddy Morsi was ousted.

That said, this greatly undermines the moral position of Egypt's military ousting a democratically elected president.


Should the military simply do nothing when the democratically elected president says he's going to basically ignore the democratic process and the new constitution? It's not like the military leaders woke up one day and were like "Hey, let's get rid of this Morsi fellow."
 
2013-07-10 03:48:22 PM

Apik0r0s: dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?

My father, a lifelong ham, went to his grave still fuming over that - after god knows how many years.


Your dad was a ham? No wonder you're such an anti-Semite.
 
2013-07-10 03:58:09 PM

qorkfiend: make me some tea: This is rather amusing in that I've been seeing right-wingers gloating over how Obama must be butthurt that his best muslim buddy Morsi was ousted.

That said, this greatly undermines the moral position of Egypt's military ousting a democratically elected president.

Should the military simply do nothing when the democratically elected president says he's going to basically ignore the democratic process and the new constitution? It's not like the military leaders woke up one day and were like "Hey, let's get rid of this Morsi fellow."


Don't get me wrong, my opinion is that he needed to go, and Egypt needs a do-over. Better luck next time, all that.
 
2013-07-10 04:11:36 PM
Well, I guess we know that the reading skills of FormlessOne and anfrind leave something to be desired.

I'm actually surprised that *ANYONE* took that as a serious comment.  I mean, come on, it's a pretty blatant joke.
 
2013-07-10 04:14:45 PM

Apik0r0s: dittybopper: shiat, the government's been anti-Morse ever since they enacted the no-code technician license.

/What?

My father, a lifelong ham, went to his grave still fuming over that - after god knows how many years.


I was initially worried that once Morse was dropped for all licenses, that eventually I'd end up fruitlessly calling "CQ" in Morse in my dotage, without anyone to answer me.

However, I know a number of new hams that are actually learning Morse because it's cool, so perhaps I was a bit hasty.  Certainly, I haven't had a problem making contacts so far, even if I'm generally the younger person in the QSO.
 
2013-07-10 04:19:31 PM
This particular situation is probably the worst possible outcome for chances of democracy in the Middle East.  It just convinces hard line Muslim groups that they have no chance in a fair election and that violence is the way to go.  In addition, I think the chances of a full scale civil war in Egypt are quite high at this point.  I know that the military is highly respected in general, but I don't know if there are any units that have significant hard line Muslim troops in them.  If so, the chances of various parts of the army attacking each other is high-tank battles next to the Pyramids, anybody?  Even if not, you could have IEDs everywhere for years.
 
2013-07-10 04:55:47 PM
I thought we supported our Muslin brotherhoods?

sooo confused
 
2013-07-10 05:08:16 PM

Geotpf: This particular situation is probably the worst possible outcome for chances of democracy in the Middle East.  It just convinces hard line Muslim groups that they have no chance in a fair election and that violence is the way to go.


Not quite: it convinces hard-line Muslim groups that they have no chance of advancing their position through fair elections.  The thing is, their position is "eliminate democracy and fair elections".
 
2013-07-10 05:42:02 PM
30 years of a rightwing U.S./Israel controlled dictatorship in Egypt sucked enough. So since the democratically elected guy ended up being a slight bit far to the right, its time for new rightwing U.S./Israel dictatorship and f*ck democracy.
 
2013-07-10 05:56:06 PM

sheep snorter: 30 years of a rightwing U.S./Israel controlled dictatorship in Egypt sucked enough. So since the democratically elected guy ended up being a slight bit far to the right, its time for new rightwing U.S./Israel dictatorship and f*ck democracy.


The democratically elected guy is the one who said "fark democracy" when he claimed he wasn't bound by the courts or the constitution and that he was suspending elections.
 
2013-07-10 06:40:09 PM
Why is this green? One of the most misleading headlines I've seen. We funded their military under Mubarak.
 
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