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(IGN)   The console wars are over: Xbox One has officially sold out at Best Buy   (ign.com) divider line 127
    More: Obvious, console wars, Microsoft, Andrew Goldfarb  
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2909 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Jul 2013 at 9:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-10 09:37:03 AM  
How the hell do you sell out of preorders?
 
2013-07-10 09:39:12 AM  

Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


Game Stop did it with the PS4 just this week.
 
2013-07-10 09:45:25 AM  

Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


Uh...because they're finite?
 
2013-07-10 09:48:46 AM  

Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


Because the pre-orders are for delivery on the launch date, not "here's my money, give me a console whenever you get around to it, guys."
 
2013-07-10 09:50:26 AM  

Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).
 
2013-07-10 09:50:40 AM  
What do you want to bet the number of XBone preorders isn't the same amount as the PS4 preorders?
 
2013-07-10 09:51:32 AM  
Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?
 
2013-07-10 09:51:58 AM  
In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


Actually, considering the shiat news about both consoles I would bet that this sold out preorder stuff is entirely intentional and that on launch day there will be plenty of mediocre next gen consoles sitting on the shelves.
 
2013-07-10 09:52:54 AM  

theresnothinglft: Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?


Without knowing how many preorders each system actually has being "sold out" is a fairly useless metric.
 
2013-07-10 09:53:06 AM  

theresnothinglft: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).


They aren't saying it's over. They just reached the maximum until Microsoft lets them know they've got more.

If you've got 1000 guaranteed consoles arriving on launch day, but sell 2000 pre-orders for it, you're gonna have a bad time. And a shiat-ton of pissed off people.
 
2013-07-10 09:54:13 AM  

theresnothinglft: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).


Best Buy doesn't manufacture the system so they can't ramp up production?
 
2013-07-10 09:54:30 AM  
the current console generation has dragged on far too long.

OF COURSE both new consoles will sell out.  People are dying for something new.

/no, the Wii U was not a next gen console.
 
2013-07-10 09:56:07 AM  
Remember, folks -- pre-sales for consoles are almost always based on speculation, as in:

"If I pre-order this now and list it on eBay a week before launch, I can pick it up, ship it and make a profit."

When the PS3 came out, EB Games and Gamestop sold out of them on launch day (inventory was EXTREMELY tight) and then had a good percentage of them come back unopened after Christmas when they'd failed to sell on eBay after repeated listings. I remember it well because I was a store manager at the time and often had days where I had to record sales figures in the negative because we'd had a $600 PS3 returned.

The real measure isn't going to be pre-sales, but year one sell-through rates. That's how you know if a console has succeeded. (We can look at the Wii U right now, for example, and see that even though it's sold 3.45 million units, it's significantly below projections and comparable sales with the Wii and software sales are poor overall, indicating that it is indeed a failed platform right now.)
 
2013-07-10 09:56:38 AM  

nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


Actually, considering the shiat news about both consoles I would bet that this sold out preorder stuff is entirely intentional and that on launch day there will be plenty of mediocre next gen consoles sitting on the shelves.


Yeah, extremely doubtful. It took nearly a year for the Wii to stay on shelves and the 360 stayed off for around seven. Even the PS3 which had a horrendous launch took a good three months before it was constantly in stock.
 
2013-07-10 09:57:22 AM  
Then when you run out of your guaranteed launch day XBones you change the order page to read 'Not guaranteed for launch date delivery do you still wish to place your order?' and you continue to take their money
 
2013-07-10 10:00:54 AM  

secularsage: Remember, folks -- pre-sales for consoles are almost always based on speculation, as in:

"If I pre-order this now and list it on eBay a week before launch, I can pick it up, ship it and make a profit."

When the PS3 came out, EB Games and Gamestop sold out of them on launch day (inventory was EXTREMELY tight) and then had a good percentage of them come back unopened after Christmas when they'd failed to sell on eBay after repeated listings. I remember it well because I was a store manager at the time and often had days where I had to record sales figures in the negative because we'd had a $600 PS3 returned.

The real measure isn't going to be pre-sales, but year one sell-through rates. That's how you know if a console has succeeded. (We can look at the Wii U right now, for example, and see that even though it's sold 3.45 million units, it's significantly below projections and comparable sales with the Wii and software sales are poor overall, indicating that it is indeed a failed platform right now.)


CSB about the PS3 launch. I was working at Target at the time and was standing outside talking to the customers waiting for us to open. Somebody came up and offered $1000 just for their spot in line to be able to buy the system; not a single person out of seven took it.  This was in the Ballantyne  area of Charlotte so I wouldn't be surprised if they were all house wives married to millionaires but damn. If somebody offered me a grand for sitting outside for less than 48 hours you damn well better believe I'll take it.
 
2013-07-10 10:02:54 AM  

nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


Actually, considering the shiat news about both consoles I would bet that this sold out preorder stuff is entirely intentional and that on launch day there will be plenty of mediocre next gen consoles sitting on the shelves.


Won't go that far, but I would say odds are good that you'll be able to easily find them on the shelf within the first three months of launch if you're so inclined. The last three system releases (Wii-U, Vita, and 3DS) all had strong launches followed by step fall off (with only the 3DS being able to mount any sort of recovery at the moment). It wouldn't surprise me if the PS4 and XB1 follow this trend too.
 
2013-07-10 10:03:19 AM  

theresnothinglft: Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?


Because internet nerd rage is largely niche and impotent, despite the over inflated sense of power and influence.
 
2013-07-10 10:04:57 AM  

Saners: nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


Actually, considering the shiat news about both consoles I would bet that this sold out preorder stuff is entirely intentional and that on launch day there will be plenty of mediocre next gen consoles sitting on the shelves.

Yeah, extremely doubtful. It took nearly a year for the Wii to stay on shelves and the 360 stayed off for around seven. Even the PS3 which had a horrendous launch took a good three months before it was constantly in stock.


It makes sense though. Limit pre-orders to create a "omg it's sold out buzz", and then either release more pre-orders a bit later or just let people walk in and buy them.

If not, then these guys are failing on another level.  There is no excuse for not being able to stock a product for months after launch, unless it's success takes you by surprise.  That is obviously not the case here, if anything the demand will be lower than they had expected.
 
2013-07-10 10:08:04 AM  

InmanRoshi: theresnothinglft: Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?

Because internet nerd rage is largely niche and impotent, despite the over inflated sense of power and influence.


I think it has more to do with the purposely low number of allowed preorders.  Nerds are the ones who preorder stuff.

There will be plenty of both consoles at launch.. maybe a couple weeks into it.
 
2013-07-10 10:09:36 AM  

lewismarktwo: InmanRoshi: theresnothinglft: Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?

Because internet nerd rage is largely niche and impotent, despite the over inflated sense of power and influence.

I think it has more to do with the purposely low number of allowed preorders.  Nerds are the ones who preorder stuff.

There will be plenty of both consoles at launch.. maybe a couple weeks into it.


It's really worth noting that it is just 2 retailers that are "sold out" and each has only sold out one particular console.  I'll pay a little more attention if ALL retailers sell out of pre-orders.
 
2013-07-10 10:12:08 AM  
WTF, didn't this just happen the other day?
 
kab
2013-07-10 10:12:59 AM  

InmanRoshi: theresnothinglft: Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?

Because internet nerd rage is largely niche and impotent, despite the over inflated sense of power and influence.


Which explains why MS is simply forging ahead with their original used game approach.
 
2013-07-10 10:13:10 AM  
Oh, I guess Drew didn't make enough money the first time around on July 5th with the CNN headlines, so he had to line them up to do the same exact joke again today. Really farking lame.
 
kab
2013-07-10 10:17:26 AM  
Also it bears repeating.   Post lower production numbers, get to claim that your product has sold out, thus giving the impression that your product simply must be sought after.

This claim of sold out pre-orders shouldn't surprise anyone.
 
2013-07-10 10:18:54 AM  

nocturnal001: It's really worth noting that it is just 2 retailers that are "sold out" and each has only sold out one particular console. I'll pay a little more attention if ALL retailers sell out of pre-orders.


And when's launch date?   November?
 
2013-07-10 10:21:32 AM  

nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


You're right. If someone can't get the console the first day, they never buy it a week later when the second, third, and fourth shipments come in.  They give up.


Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


Because each location/company is given a number of units they'll get on day 1, and the company doesn't sell past that number to avoid pissing off customers who put up $100 to ensure they got their console on day 1?
 
2013-07-10 10:21:55 AM  

lewismarktwo: InmanRoshi: theresnothinglft: Well that is the real question.  How is the XBone actually managing to sell out preorders?

Because internet nerd rage is largely niche and impotent, despite the over inflated sense of power and influence.

I think it has more to do with the purposely low number of allowed preorders.  Nerds are the ones who preorder stuff.

There will be plenty of both consoles at launch.. maybe a couple weeks into it.


You have to remember though, this is going into the holiday season. Both Sony and MS are guaranteed to sell every single unit available, all the way through new years. Just as other people have mentioned, with exception of the WiiU flop, almost every other console in the past decade was subject to rampant secondary market reselling. I remember PS3's at launch going for 3x's the sale price.

When the same thing happens this year, I'll likely eBay my launch day XB1, and laugh my way to the bank as farkers confess confusion as to why both game consoles are sold out everywhere.
 
2013-07-10 10:26:34 AM  
Well, that makes sense. The type of people who will buy the XBone (that generally don't care, haven't read up, etc) will do it at BB, and PS4 will similarly sell better at GameStop.

frepnog: /no, the Wii U was not a next gen console.


This is true. I'm a huge Nintendo apologist, but I get the feeling they don't know where to go next.
 
2013-07-10 10:27:37 AM  

theresnothinglft: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).


No, it's artificial scarcity.

Headlines that tout how the thing sold out in record time make people think its super popular, there's a ton of demand, etc. it's a marketing strategy. It's so popular you can't get one is a great strategy to make people 'need' to have one.

Plus it gives them free press when people make 'sold out' headlines.
 
2013-07-10 10:27:42 AM  

nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


Actually, considering the shiat news about both consoles I would bet that this sold out preorder stuff is entirely intentional and that on launch day there will be plenty of mediocre next gen consoles sitting on the shelves.


Except that traditionally (Wii was an exception) consoles are heavily subsidized at launch.  Sony may well have issues keeping up with demand, but I imagine that this may have been part of the deal with various MS-Best buy joint ventures (think the winphone zone).
 
2013-07-10 10:31:01 AM  
I'm guessing at least 25% end up on ebay.
 
2013-07-10 10:42:15 AM  

Khellendros: nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.

You're right. If someone can't get the console the first day, they never buy it a week later when the second, third, and fourth shipments come in.  They give up.



Facepalm.jpg
That customer may or may not come back a week or 4 months later and buy your product.  If a customer has money and in their hand and you can't sell them something you are not optimizing your profits.
 
2013-07-10 10:44:14 AM  

kab: Also it bears repeating.   Post lower production numbers, get to claim that your product has sold out, thus giving the impression that your product simply must be sought after.

This claim of sold out pre-orders shouldn't surprise anyone.


No way brah, they are selling out because they consoles are epic and will be a huge success.  I need to believe this to support my decision to pre-order a product that won't be released until 4 months from now.
 
2013-07-10 10:46:03 AM  

theresnothinglft: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).


Ramping up production is insanely hard to do logistically and when you have to ramp down it gets expensive. You would rather have constant levels of production.
 
2013-07-10 10:49:06 AM  

dj_spanmaster: This is true. I'm a huge Nintendo apologist, but I get the feeling they don't know where to go next.


as a life long nintendo fan...  it is far past time for nintendo to pull a sega and become a software publisher and just stop with the consoles.  the Wii was a hit...  but only for Wii Sports.  Most of the consoles sold sat unused and the Wii U is just...  sitting.
 
2013-07-10 10:49:10 AM  

nocturnal001: Khellendros: nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.

You're right. If someone can't get the console the first day, they never buy it a week later when the second, third, and fourth shipments come in.  They give up.


Facepalm.jpg
That customer may or may not come back a week or 4 months later and buy your product.  If a customer has money and in their hand and you can't sell them something you are not optimizing your profits.


Which would make sense if there were other suppliers for Best Buy to go to.   If they sell out of every item they have and cannot get more items, they have maximized their profits as much as they could.
 
2013-07-10 10:53:14 AM  
Wow there are some painfully stupid people in this thread.
 
2013-07-10 10:53:24 AM  

nocturnal001: Khellendros: nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.

You're right. If someone can't get the console the first day, they never buy it a week later when the second, third, and fourth shipments come in.  They give up.


Facepalm.jpg
That customer may or may not come back a week or 4 months later and buy your product.  If a customer has money and in their hand and you can't sell them something you are not optimizing your profits.


Nice business theory.  It holds up in generalities, but every product and service is unique, and you have to respond to the needs of that market base.

People who decide to buy a next-gen system on day one are not malleable.  They want that system, and are going to get that system.  It may take a few days or a few weeks to buy it, but a day one console buyer is not going to jump from Sony to Microsoft that day, or decide not to purchase at all if they don't have stock in at that moment.

Now, if you're still out a few months later, you have a problem.  Casual users or tech laggards may let apathy prevent them from purchasing something later, but we're talking about leading edge, day one buyers.  Very specific and very predictable market group, and they'll come back a week later if they have to.
 
2013-07-10 10:53:28 AM  

Komplex: theresnothinglft: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).

Ramping up production is insanely hard to do logistically and when you have to ramp down it gets expensive. You would rather have constant levels of production.


Not to mention, selling out of something creates fantastic marketing buzz around your product which increases demand even more.
 
2013-07-10 10:54:34 AM  

dj_spanmaster: Well, that makes sense. The type of people who will buy the XBone (that generally don't care, haven't read up, etc) will do it at BB, and PS4 will similarly sell better at GameStop.


Because when I step into a Gamestop, I usually think "This is where all the smart people hang out".
 
2013-07-10 10:55:52 AM  
Aren't there multiple configurations/bundles with the release XboxOne?  If so, I'm surprised that they sold out of all those different bundles.  I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.
 
2013-07-10 10:58:20 AM  

PsyLord: I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.


most console gamers don't give a shiat or even know what happened at E3, and the biggest hooplah about the Xbox, always on, has been rescinded.

it will be one hell of a great console.

/so will the PS4.
 
2013-07-10 10:59:08 AM  
I'm pretty sure Amazon sold out launch date orders of the PS4 a while ago. If you want to pre-order there, I think you still can. The unit may not arrive for a while after the product launch date though.
 
2013-07-10 11:03:08 AM  

PsyLord: Aren't there multiple configurations/bundles with the release XboxOne?  If so, I'm surprised that they sold out of all those different bundles.  I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.


I don't think so. So far they've only announced one console and one price. I do know they were bouncing around a subscription-based plan (get console for $199 and sign up for 2-year $15/mo XBL contract), but haven't heard anything since the initial idea.
 
2013-07-10 11:03:53 AM  

frepnog: PsyLord: I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.

most console gamers don't give a shiat or even know what happened at E3, and the biggest hooplah about the Xbox, always on, has been rescinded.

it will be one hell of a great console.

/so will the PS4.


Has it? Do you mean the always connected part (the 24-hour check-in thing) or that the XBone Kinect will be always on/listening? I'd heard they'd dropped the check-in requirement, I was under the impression the always-on Kinect was still true though?
 
2013-07-10 11:04:09 AM  
I love you, Early Adopters.

Let me know if the product actually works and I'll come back when it's in stock.
 
2013-07-10 11:04:26 AM  

elysive: I'm pretty sure Amazon sold out launch date orders of the PS4 a while ago. If you want to pre-order there, I think you still can. The unit may not arrive for a while after the product launch date though.


Just looked and the Xbox one for launch is also sold out there. I guess if you're willing to buy a game package with the system, its still possible to get a PS4 on its release date.

/doesnt see why anyone cares about Best Buy, or even Game Stop for that matter...they both are annoying places to shop
 
2013-07-10 11:05:55 AM  

miscreant: frepnog: PsyLord: I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.

most console gamers don't give a shiat or even know what happened at E3, and the biggest hooplah about the Xbox, always on, has been rescinded.

it will be one hell of a great console.

/so will the PS4.

Has it? Do you mean the always connected part (the 24-hour check-in thing) or that the XBone Kinect will be always on/listening? I'd heard they'd dropped the check-in requirement, I was under the impression the always-on Kinect was still true though?


I don't recall them stating anything about the always on Kinect being able to be turned off.  But they did rescind the 24hr check in and the used game thing (I think).
 
2013-07-10 11:07:51 AM  

InmanRoshi: dj_spanmaster: Well, that makes sense. The type of people who will buy the XBone (that generally don't care, haven't read up, etc) will do it at BB, and PS4 will similarly sell better at GameStop.

Because when I step into a Gamestop, I usually think "This is where all the smart people hang out".


Why exactly are you white knighting the XBone?
 
2013-07-10 11:08:39 AM  

frepnog: as a life long nintendo fan... it is far past time for nintendo to pull a sega and become a software publisher and just stop with the consoles. the Wii was a hit... but only for Wii Sports. Most of the consoles sold sat unused and the Wii U is just... sitting.


I'll agree with this. They scored a huge hit with the Wii. the problem is, the demographic they hit are not people who are going to get sucked into an upgrade cycle. The Wii is fun for parties, family events, etc... but they'd be raking in the cash if they'd let the franchises we all grew up with (Mario, Zelda, etc...) move onto the other consoles.
 
2013-07-10 11:12:09 AM  

PsyLord: I don't recall them stating anything about the always on Kinect being able to be turned off. But they did rescind the 24hr check in and the used game thing (I think).


Yeah, I knew that part of it. I'm just not a fan of the always on Kinect thing. There are ways around it of course (just hook the XBone up to a power bar and turn that off)... but I shouldn't HAVE to do crap like that. If I want the feature of being able to turn it on via voice, sure, it's a value add, but something like that, which people find creepy and an intrusion of privacy (even if the claim is that it's not, both the perception and the potential is there), isn't something I should be forced into.
 
2013-07-10 11:15:21 AM  

PsyLord: miscreant: frepnog: PsyLord: I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.

most console gamers don't give a shiat or even know what happened at E3, and the biggest hooplah about the Xbox, always on, has been rescinded.

it will be one hell of a great console.

/so will the PS4.

Has it? Do you mean the always connected part (the 24-hour check-in thing) or that the XBone Kinect will be always on/listening? I'd heard they'd dropped the check-in requirement, I was under the impression the always-on Kinect was still true though?

I don't recall them stating anything about the always on Kinect being able to be turned off.  But they did rescind the 24hr check in and the used game thing (I think).


You know what?  If the Xbone wants to watch me masturbate while watching Golden Girls, then let it.  If that data somehow made it to the NSA etc.  So be it.
 
2013-07-10 11:17:02 AM  

lewismarktwo: InmanRoshi: dj_spanmaster: Well, that makes sense. The type of people who will buy the XBone (that generally don't care, haven't read up, etc) will do it at BB, and PS4 will similarly sell better at GameStop.

Because when I step into a Gamestop, I usually think "This is where all the smart people hang out".

Why exactly are you white knighting the XBone?


No exactly white knighting the "XBone" but rather pointing and laughing at the deluded self importance of niche nerd rage on teh intrawebbings.
 
2013-07-10 11:17:32 AM  

Representative of the unwashed masses: PsyLord: miscreant: frepnog: PsyLord: I didn't know that there were that many suckers willing to buy the XboxOne after the E3 debacle.

most console gamers don't give a shiat or even know what happened at E3, and the biggest hooplah about the Xbox, always on, has been rescinded.

it will be one hell of a great console.

/so will the PS4.

Has it? Do you mean the always connected part (the 24-hour check-in thing) or that the XBone Kinect will be always on/listening? I'd heard they'd dropped the check-in requirement, I was under the impression the always-on Kinect was still true though?

I don't recall them stating anything about the always on Kinect being able to be turned off.  But they did rescind the 24hr check in and the used game thing (I think).

You know what?  If the Xbone wants to watch me masturbate while watching Golden Girls, then let it.  If that data somehow made it to the NSA etc.  So be it.


Your main menu will sure have an interesting set of advertisements...
 
2013-07-10 11:18:40 AM  

miscreant: frepnog: as a life long nintendo fan... it is far past time for nintendo to pull a sega and become a software publisher and just stop with the consoles. the Wii was a hit... but only for Wii Sports. Most of the consoles sold sat unused and the Wii U is just... sitting.

I'll agree with this. They scored a huge hit with the Wii. the problem is, the demographic they hit are not people who are going to get sucked into an upgrade cycle. The Wii is fun for parties, family events, etc... but they'd be raking in the cash if they'd let the franchises we all grew up with (Mario, Zelda, etc...) move onto the other consoles.


As much as I'm applauding them for not laying off workers despite the hit Nintendo is currently taking on the U sales there is an awful lot of hubris coming out of that company.  The core demographic want the big titles and Nintendo simply isn't delivering them.  Now Sony and MS are loading up for holiday season launches and there is still no word on when the big Nintendo IPs are coming(as far as I know anyway).
 
2013-07-10 11:20:16 AM  

miscreant: 'll agree with this. They scored a huge hit with the Wii. the problem is, the demographic they hit are not people who are going to get sucked into an upgrade cycle.


this.  they basically got people that will play Zynga games to buy a console, and then...  nothing.  and those people don't need an upgrade, because Wii Sports is still fun enough.
 
2013-07-10 11:28:01 AM  

frepnog: dj_spanmaster: This is true. I'm a huge Nintendo apologist, but I get the feeling they don't know where to go next.

as a life long nintendo fan...  it is far past time for nintendo to pull a sega and become a software publisher and just stop with the consoles.  the Wii was a hit...  but only for Wii Sports.  Most of the consoles sold sat unused and the Wii U is just...  sitting.


Eh, I think a large part of that is the GamePad concept.  I got a Wii U for the kids, but I also picked up Zombi U for myself.  I thought the GamePad (for Zombi U and for Lego City) was actually a very well-thought-out device, and added to the overall gaming experience.  BUT, most publishers can't figure out how to get it to work with their cash cow FPS games, so the concept is already dying or dead.  Most Wii U games now do not require the GamePad at all.

\and guys?  More than ten games to choose from would be nice
 
2013-07-10 11:38:08 AM  

frepnog: the current console generation has dragged on far too long.

OF COURSE both new consoles will sell out.  People are dying for something new.

/no, the Wii U was not a next gen console.


This will unfortunately be the new norm. The advancement of processing power is slowing down.  Development costs for games are going up as processing power increases.  This generation of consoles will probably be around for 10 years.
 
2013-07-10 11:40:00 AM  

Khellendros: nocturnal001: Khellendros: nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.

You're right. If someone can't get the console the first day, they never buy it a week later when the second, third, and fourth shipments come in.  They give up.


Facepalm.jpg
That customer may or may not come back a week or 4 months later and buy your product.  If a customer has money and in their hand and you can't sell them something you are not optimizing your profits.

Nice business theory.  It holds up in generalities, but every product and service is unique, and you have to respond to the needs of that market base.

People who decide to buy a next-gen system on day one are not malleable.  They want that system, and are going to get that system.  It may take a few days or a few weeks to buy it, but a day one console buyer is not going to jump from Sony to Microsoft that day, or decide not to purchase at all if they don't have stock in at that moment.

Now, if you're still out a few months later, you have a problem.  Casual users or tech laggards may let apathy prevent them from purchasing something later, but we're talking about leading edge, day one buyers.  Very specific and very predictable market group, and they'll come back a week later if they have to.


To say that every person who may purchase an Xbox at or around launch is some type of fanatic that will wait indefinitely and will still purchase the item later on is ridiculous.  Not to mention that even if said person is one of the people who will buy it no matter what, a month delay translates into delayed revenue, fewer accessories purchased, fewer games purchased, and an overall hit to the all important metric of your install base.  Also, what then of the casual buyer?  They walk into Best Buy before Christmas and they don't see any Xboxes on the shelves because the "fanatics who must have it no matter what" that couldn't get it on day 1 have sucked up all the new stock.  You know what those parents or casual buyers do? They buy a damn PS4 or say F it and buy that puppy their kid wanted.

It's a basic fact that a company that under delivers a product is leaving money on the table...unless that scarcity is all a marketing ploy to make the product appear more desirable through artificial scarcity to make up for one of the worst product developments and marketing campaigns I have seen in a long time.

Wait, that last bit I typed there. Hmm, that sounds pretty familiar.
 
2013-07-10 11:49:27 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Eh, I think a large part of that is the GamePad concept. I got a Wii U for the kids, but I also picked up Zombi U for myself. I thought the GamePad (for Zombi U and for Lego City) was actually a very well-thought-out device, and added to the overall gaming experience. BUT, most publishers can't figure out how to get it to work with their cash cow FPS games, so the concept is already dying or dead. Most Wii U games now do not require the GamePad at all.


Nintendo themselves are generally pretty good at utilizing whatever new hardware they supply (I've heard Luigi's Mansion uses the GamePad to good effect?), but they have a hard time getting third party buy in. I figured it would be used for games similar to the Scotland Yard board game I had when I was younger.
 
2013-07-10 11:50:35 AM  
What is stopping MS from adding back all the stuff people hated 6 months after launch?
 
2013-07-10 11:52:04 AM  

nocturnal001: That customer may or may not come back a week or 4 months later and buy your product.  If a customer has money and in their hand and you can't sell them something you are not optimizing your profits.


I don't know if you're talking about Gamestops/Best Buys or Microsoft itself.

CSB:  I went to Gamestop to buy the new Super Mario World 3D when it was released.  They told me unless I preordered it they couldn't sell it to me.

So I walked down the strip mall and bought it at Target.

Then I went in months later to buy Luigis Mansion.  They told me they were sold out and didn't know when they would be getting more but would put my name on a waiting list.

So I walked down the strip mall and bought it at Target.

I won't go to Gamestop again.  They've lost my business.  But Nintendo is still getting paid, where ever I buy their games
 
2013-07-10 11:53:18 AM  

nocturnal001: To say that every person who may purchase an Xbox at or around launch is some type of fanatic that will wait indefinitely and will still purchase the item later on is ridiculous.


It's a good thing I didn't say that then, or even imply it.  I used a very specific term - not malleable.  They want *that* system (ps4, xbox one, whatever).  They're not going to abandon the brand or decide not to purchase based on an early shortage of stock.

nocturnal001: Not to mention that even if said person is one of the people who will buy it no matter what, a month delay translates into delayed revenue, fewer accessories purchased, fewer games purchased, and an overall hit to the all important metric of your install base.


No, it results in a delay in the purchase of those things.  Again, this segment of the market will make the same purchase within that short market cycle, they're just not going to all buy it on day one.  They'll get it all in the first 14 or 21 days.  The same number of games, controllers, options, etc.  Whether it's purchased all on day 1 release or in the first three weeks of launch is irrelevant to the company.  It's all the same quarter sales, and their supply chain is less stressed when they try to supply over a few weeks instead of all on one day.

I'm not classifying them as "fanatics" as you seem keen on insisting I'm saying.  They're persistent buyers that will buy.  Lackadaisical buyers aren't day 1 buyers.  Day 1 buyers know what they want, made their decisions weeks or months ago.  And the supply chain will keep up and get sales.  Second round buyers haven't been pinched in any console release.  Only day 1 buyers, and they just get pushed a few days or weeks.

nocturnal001: You know what those parents or casual buyers do? They buy a damn PS4 or say F it and buy that puppy their kid wanted.


Again - parents and casual buyers aren't day 1 buyers.  Supply chain for consoles haven't failed middle adopters in the last three generations.  I don't see how this is viewed as a problem.
 
2013-07-10 11:57:01 AM  
No no no, you're wrong failmitter.

Best Buy sold out of their extended warranty, geek squad installation offer and monster cables so they had to stop taking orders.
 
2013-07-10 11:58:51 AM  

miscreant: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Eh, I think a large part of that is the GamePad concept. I got a Wii U for the kids, but I also picked up Zombi U for myself. I thought the GamePad (for Zombi U and for Lego City) was actually a very well-thought-out device, and added to the overall gaming experience. BUT, most publishers can't figure out how to get it to work with their cash cow FPS games, so the concept is already dying or dead. Most Wii U games now do not require the GamePad at all.

Nintendo themselves are generally pretty good at utilizing whatever new hardware they supply (I've heard Luigi's Mansion uses the GamePad to good effect?), but they have a hard time getting third party buy in. I figured it would be used for games similar to the Scotland Yard board game I had when I was younger.


3rd party developers just won't waste the time or money on Wii U. If it's a multi-platform game, they know most people will buy it for the 360/PS3/XBOne/PS4 because graphics and online-play are almost always superior.

They did the exact same thing with Kinect. Very few companies devoted resources to utilizing the Kinect beyond simple voice commands (like Mass Effect 3) for any multi-platform games.
 
2013-07-10 12:00:20 PM  

Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


Because you can only sell as many pre-orders as you have physical units you can guarantee will be there on launch day.  Typically you can only turn out so many units per month, and there are x months until launch, so multiply and subtract some factor of safety garnered from experience and there's your limit.

Also, video game companies intentionally restrict their release volume specifically so that they can make the claim that people are selling out, even if they're sitting on a bazillion of the things in various warehouses.  Remember the launch of the original Wii?  Release restricted for the sake of the ad copy claim and the word of mouth.
 
2013-07-10 12:09:10 PM  

LarryDan43: What is stopping MS from adding back all the stuff people hated 6 months after launch?


Oh they won't do that, they've changed.  They didn't know what they were doing before, it had been a long couple of months, work was stressful, and they had been drinking.

Microsoft won't do it again.  They love me.
 
2013-07-10 12:10:02 PM  
This doesn't mean much unless we know what the actual numbers are.

Otherwise MS can just make 1000 pre-orders available and claim they all "sold out", while Sony has 99,000 out of 100,000 pre-orders filled.
 
2013-07-10 12:13:33 PM  
Never had a console of any kind and don't play games but ordered an xbox on a whim, mostly for the tv shiat. So I guess this is kind of my fault.
 
2013-07-10 12:15:12 PM  

Cytokine Storm: LarryDan43: What is stopping MS from adding back all the stuff people hated 6 months after launch?

Oh they won't do that, they've changed.  They didn't know what they were doing before, it had been a long couple of months, work was stressful, and they had been drinking.

Microsoft won't do it again.  They love me.


You owe me a new sarcasm meter.

/Micro$oft Corporation.
//They're not happy till you're not happy.
 
2013-07-10 12:26:22 PM  
The console wars were over before they began; my new $500 laptop is nearly as powerful as either one without any of the downsides, to say nothing of my real gaming/production PC which even at two years old is way more powerful and is coming due for a GPU/RAM/SSD upgrade to stay ahead of the curve. I've got a parts list made up for a $600-ish HTPC build that'd make a hell of a Steam-Box and home media server, and the cost of the hardware could be trimmed back quite a bit if I didn't insist on an xbox 360-size form factor.
 
2013-07-10 12:29:47 PM  

Khellendros: People who decide to buy a next-gen system on day one are not malleable.  They want that system, and are going to get that system.  It may take a few days or a few weeks to buy it, but a day one console buyer is not going to jump from Sony to Microsoft that day, or decide not to purchase at all if they don't have stock in at that moment.

Now, if you're still out a few months later, you have a problem.  Casual users or tech laggards may let apathy prevent them from purchasing something later, but we're talking about leading edge, day one buyers.  Very specific and very predictable market group, and they'll come back a week later if they have to.


Well said.

Early adopter purchasers aren't what to watch, in general.  It is indeed the long haul.  However, if you lump all early adopters together and slice it on one particular piece of data, you could get an  idea of which console has a better upside.  Wouldn't be bulletproof, mind you, but would be enlightening. That piece of data would be console "jumpers".  In other words PS3 users that are getting the XBOne day one, but NOT getting PS4 and the converse.  Those that have both consoles that are only getting one console don't really matter, they demonstrably want the broadest spectrum of playability, so they may indeed succumb to getting the other console in the long haul.
 
2013-07-10 12:32:05 PM  
This really means nothing without knowing what their allocation in terms of units was.
 
2013-07-10 12:36:58 PM  
Thank you, you brave beta testers.
 
2013-07-10 12:37:00 PM  
To anyone who thinks that the Xbone and the PS4 are going to have flawless launches, I don't think so.
Keep in mind the PS3 and the XBOX360 are still getting a good amount of releases around the time the new consoles launch. I think that there  has been a hype build up being pulled by both M$ and Sony to make it look like everyone is going to drop the prior systems and be locked and loaded with the new ones on day one. Something is going to go wrong some way some how with each system. It happened to Nintendo, and it will happen to Sony and M$. It will either be technical or mechanical, but it will happen.
Just because everything seems to run flawlessly during pre-release Demos doesn't mean that will carry over to the actual release. It's going to be a rough take-off for both of them, if you remember last time the Red ring of death on XBox360 and the price of the PS3.
 
2013-07-10 12:57:54 PM  

Agent_Stan_Smith_CIA: To anyone who thinks that the Xbone and the PS4 are going to have flawless launches, I don't think so.
Keep in mind the PS3 and the XBOX360 are still getting a good amount of releases around the time the new consoles launch. I think that there  has been a hype build up being pulled by both M$ and Sony to make it look like everyone is going to drop the prior systems and be locked and loaded with the new ones on day one. Something is going to go wrong some way some how with each system. It happened to Nintendo, and it will happen to Sony and M$. It will either be technical or mechanical, but it will happen.
Just because everything seems to run flawlessly during pre-release Demos doesn't mean that will carry over to the actual release. It's going to be a rough take-off for both of them, if you remember last time the Red ring of death on XBox360 and the price of the PS3.


I don't think most smart people are thinking the launch will be flawless.  Hell, launches can be a very bad sign of how sales turn out.  Both the 3DS and Vita had outstanding launches, then fizzled out terribly when they had nothing to offer after the initial launch lineup.  Nintendo ducked the issue by slashing the price over 25%, and Sony's gonna have to do that soon to both the system and the laughably overpriced memory cards for the Vita to rise above sub-par sales numbers.

Both PS4 and XB1 will sell, but it's all but guaranteed that everyone will keep their old system... because nothing's backwards compatible.  People will be playing their PS3s and 360s long after the new consoles come out.  Sony embraces the idea of having multiple generations of consoles selling next to each other, but Microsoft might have a problem with that.  They couldn't drop support for the Xbox fast enough when the 360 came out, because it's the same marketing strategy they do with their OS software.  If they pull that again with the 360, that could cost them huge.
 
2013-07-10 12:59:44 PM  
Khellendros:
No, it results in a delay in the purchase of those things.  Again, this segment of the market will make the same purchase within that short market cycle, they're just not going to all buy it on day one.  They'll get it all in the first 14 or 21 days.  The same number of games, controllers, options, etc.  Whether it's purchased all on day 1 release or in the first three weeks of launch is irrelevant to the company.  It's all the same quarter sales, and their supply chain is less stressed when they try to supply over a few weeks instead of all on one day.

No, no they won't. People buy the hot new game, they are less likely to buy the old game as there is something new and shiny out. If you do not understand that then you have never played video games or dealt with any media really.  You also forget that the system is intended as a media hub. If an early adopter has to wait a month that is an extra month of video rentals, dlc, xbl games that he is not purchasing through the system.

I don't know how this is controversial.  If people walk in with money and you can't service them for X period of time you will lose some of that money.  Period.  Did I say you would lose all of that money? No, I did not. But absolutely you will lose some of it.

I guess I'm the only Xbox fan in the world who feels this way.  A couple of years ago I would have answered "yes absolutely" if you had asked me if I'd buy the next xbox at launch.  Now, I'm certain that my answer is "no", especially if they aren't available.  After getting dicked around for this long by MS I'm pretty luke warm, and that luke warm will turn into cold if I don't even have the option of buying for a couple months.  In that time I could easily decide that PS4 looks like a good option, and once I buy that console I'm likely to stay there due to switching costs.

Or I'm totally wrong and MS is operating at 100% efficiency and is truly the greatest company ever and anyone who doubts the new xbox is a fabzorz newb.
 
2013-07-10 01:13:09 PM  

scottydoesntknow: theresnothinglft: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

This.  It's like shouting "STOP" when people keep burying you in money.  For a business this is stupid unless production can't keep up with the demand (in which case you ramp up production).

They aren't saying it's over. They just reached the maximum until Microsoft lets them know they've got more.

If you've got 1000 guaranteed consoles arriving on launch day, but sell 2000 pre-orders for it, you're gonna have a bad time. And a shiat-ton of pissed off people.


Ya, EBGames did that to me a couple of times.  Never shopped there again, then super-power-wished them to go out of business.  It worked.
 
2013-07-10 01:13:36 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Cytokine Storm: LarryDan43: What is stopping MS from adding back all the stuff people hated 6 months after launch?

Oh they won't do that, they've changed.  They didn't know what they were doing before, it had been a long couple of months, work was stressful, and they had been drinking.

Microsoft won't do it again.  They love me.

You owe me a new sarcasm meter.

/Micro$oft Corporation.
//They're not happy till you're not happy.


Microsoft: You'll suck our dick and like it!
 
2013-07-10 01:21:55 PM  
I get it. Its funny because the two posts contradict each other.
 
2013-07-10 01:23:17 PM  
trayvon martin had an Xbox One on pre-order.  FACT.
 
2013-07-10 01:28:14 PM  

frepnog: trayvon martin had an Xbox One on pre-order.  FACT.


Sooo what you're saying is there's still one available....
 
2013-07-10 01:29:35 PM  

frepnog: trayvon martin had an Xbox One on pre-order.  FACT.


That explains why he committed suicide.
 
2013-07-10 01:29:37 PM  

frepnog: trayvon martin had an Xbox One on pre-order.  FACT.


Get your own shtick, twatbasket
 
2013-07-10 01:30:17 PM  
I have a PS4 pre-ordered and paid for, but I'll try to hawk it before Christmas. GT6 and GTA5 will keep me plenty busy with my PS3.

If I can sell it for at least 1.25x; yay, free money from a guilt-ridden parent. If I can't; well I still wanted a PS4.
 
2013-07-10 01:38:57 PM  

nocturnal001: No, no they won't. People buy the hot new game, they are less likely to buy the old game as there is something new and shiny out. If you do not understand that then you have never played video games or dealt with any media really. You also forget that the system is intended as a media hub. If an early adopter has to wait a month that is an extra month of video rentals, dlc, xbl games that he is not purchasing through the system.


You seem to completely neglect the concept of launch titles and second gen titles, and how the first few months of every console has worked for the last 15 years.  You also clearly don't have a grasp on the gaming market, or how early adopters work in the electronics market.  A 14 or 21 day lag for a percentage of day 1 buyers means nothing.  It won't affect a dime.  It will affect different retailers as they fight to get more units in to satisfy the 100 phone calls a day, but it won't affect Sony or MS profits, so long as their supply chain doesn't lag more than a few weeks, and it flattens out after 30 days or so (you know, like every console does).

You think they're leaving money on the table - you're wrong.  If they were, their supply chain would overtax to make sure they made the most money.  That's why they don't have every console built on day 1.  They know the models better than anyone else.  If they saw a drop of money by not satisfying 20% of day 1 buyers on day 1, they'd have more built for day 1 and rake in the cash.  But they've realized that the early adopters are locked.  They've been locked for the last 10 consoles.  They know long before launch which system they're going to buy.
 
2013-07-10 01:44:02 PM  
This is one of those situations where the combatants 'visualize' every move, strike and response, before they ever actually fight, isn't it? Like those horrible new Sherlock Holmes movies?
Or is this some sort of Chinese Art of War situation, where you subdue the enemy without fighting?
Or is this like the weeks and weeks of hype that take place before a disappointingly lopsided Super Bowl?

Personally I'm going to see what people have to say about their next generation consoles AFTER they get them home and play them for a couple of months. I don't trust professional reviewers to be unbiased.  I've seen too many crappy games get great reviews. And I certainly don't trust Microsoft or Sony to tell the truth about their products. I'm waiting for the REAL reviews, the ones like "There was a high whistling coming from the console then the smoke alarm went off" type of reviews.
 
2013-07-10 01:50:16 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: The console wars were over before they began; my new $500 laptop is nearly as powerful as either one without any of the downsides, to say nothing of my real gaming/production PC which even at two years old is way more powerful and is coming due for a GPU/RAM/SSD upgrade to stay ahead of the curve. I've got a parts list made up for a $600-ish HTPC build that'd make a hell of a Steam-Box and home media server, and the cost of the hardware could be trimmed back quite a bit if I didn't insist on an xbox 360-size form factor.


Oh shut up.
 
2013-07-10 01:55:26 PM  

halB: Ya, EBGames did that to me a couple of times.  Never shopped there again, then super-power-wished them to go out of business.  It worked.


No, it didn't. Gamestop just bought EBGames and it became one evil monolithic piece of shiat. There's actually still an EB left near me in a nearby mall - and I mean it's called  Electronics Boutique, not EBGames. It's still out there.
 
2013-07-10 01:56:26 PM  

scottydoesntknow: miscreant: whizbangthedirtfarmer: Eh, I think a large part of that is the GamePad concept. I got a Wii U for the kids, but I also picked up Zombi U for myself. I thought the GamePad (for Zombi U and for Lego City) was actually a very well-thought-out device, and added to the overall gaming experience. BUT, most publishers can't figure out how to get it to work with their cash cow FPS games, so the concept is already dying or dead. Most Wii U games now do not require the GamePad at all.

Nintendo themselves are generally pretty good at utilizing whatever new hardware they supply (I've heard Luigi's Mansion uses the GamePad to good effect?), but they have a hard time getting third party buy in. I figured it would be used for games similar to the Scotland Yard board game I had when I was younger.

3rd party developers just won't waste the time or money on Wii U. If it's a multi-platform game, they know most people will buy it for the 360/PS3/XBOne/PS4 because graphics and online-play are almost always superior.

They did the exact same thing with Kinect. Very few companies devoted resources to utilizing the Kinect beyond simple voice commands (like Mass Effect 3) for any multi-platform games.


Between my PC and the Wii U, I don't expect to purchase either the XBox or the PS4 for quite some time.  I had originally tried to purchase a PS3 a few months after it came out, but I just couldn't pay the inflated prices.  Along the way, I simply decided not to bother at all, and I didn't get a console again until the Kinect/Xbox bundle, which I got for the kids.

What MS and Sony seem to overlook is that there are a large number of people out there who can play games, or not, and it's not a big deal.  They also overlook the Glorious PC Gaming people as well.
 
2013-07-10 01:57:46 PM  

red5ish: Personally I'm going to see what people have to say about their next generation consoles AFTER they get them home and play them for a couple of months.


That's normally what I do but for some reason I pre-ordered. I bought on a whim.  I have no blu-ray and want one and my htpc died so I figured what the hell, it's summer and I'll hardly use the TV until October anyway. If it sucks, it sucks. God knows I've blown $500 on stupider shiat than this. Frankly I'm not too worried about it.
 
2013-07-10 01:58:48 PM  

JohnBigBootay: red5ish: Personally I'm going to see what people have to say about their next generation consoles AFTER they get them home and play them for a couple of months.

That's normally what I do but for some reason I pre-ordered. I bought on a whim.  I have no blu-ray and want one and my htpc died so I figured what the hell, it's summer and I'll hardly use the TV until October anyway. If it sucks, it sucks. God knows I've blown $500 on stupider shiat than this. Frankly I'm not too worried about it.


You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks.  Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????
 
2013-07-10 02:04:01 PM  

ThatDarkFellow: twatbasket


o_0

images4.wikia.nocookie.net

now that's a name i've not heard in a long time.
 
2013-07-10 02:05:20 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: JohnBigBootay: red5ish: Personally I'm going to see what people have to say about their next generation consoles AFTER they get them home and play them for a couple of months.

That's normally what I do but for some reason I pre-ordered. I bought on a whim.  I have no blu-ray and want one and my htpc died so I figured what the hell, it's summer and I'll hardly use the TV until October anyway. If it sucks, it sucks. God knows I've blown $500 on stupider shiat than this. Frankly I'm not too worried about it.

You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks.  Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????


Your plan lacks smugness!
 
2013-07-10 02:08:19 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: What MS and Sony seem to overlook is that there are a large number of people out there who can play games, or not, and it's not a big deal. They also overlook the Glorious PC Gaming people as well.


So what exactly do you want them to do?  They know damn well there are folks who don't yet have the console, or have other thigns to play.  Tjhat's why they spend millions on marketing: to get those people to want to buy their system.
 
2013-07-10 02:10:45 PM  

Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?


limited supply

Wii U sold out at launch as well

as did the Vita
 
2013-07-10 02:13:00 PM  

AdamK: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

limited supply

Wii U sold out at launch as well

as did the Vita


Right.  the key is to continue the sales post release, which both the vita and wii U failed to do.  Pre-order numbers really don't mean anything in this day and age.  I'd say the game attach rate will be the bigger signal.
 
2013-07-10 02:16:29 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks. Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????


I don't know really, like I said, impulse buy. I actually really dug the tv part of the presentation and like I said, my htpc just died so I think I'll enjoy the netflix, hulu, amzn, hbo video shiat. I know half you guys could all build a better unit for less but I'm sort of done building computers at home. If I actually play a game myself it will be a bonus though I'm sure the frequently visiting children will enjoy it. Either that or set my house on fire for buying the wrong thing.
 
2013-07-10 02:22:08 PM  
I know it's hard for people online to believe, but it could also be because online nerd ragers make up about 1% of the actual gaming world.  Microsoft could quite literally screw a pooch in their presentation, and they are still going to sell a bajillion of these, because most people either don't know or don't care about the (legitimate) issues people have had and have with the Xbox One.
 
2013-07-10 02:24:41 PM  

Antimatter: whizbangthedirtfarmer: What MS and Sony seem to overlook is that there are a large number of people out there who can play games, or not, and it's not a big deal. They also overlook the Glorious PC Gaming people as well.

So what exactly do you want them to do?  They know damn well there are folks who don't yet have the console, or have other thigns to play.  Tjhat's why they spend millions on marketing: to get those people to want to buy their system.


I wasn't getting this day one anyway, but Microsoft's done a bang up job of convincing me to look elsewhere when I do upgrade. Privacy issues aside, the Kinect is utterly useless to me, and the fact that you need that POS just to even operate the XBox One is some major-league bullshiat. I love my 360 and I love Forza, but as long as the Kinect is mandatory, the system and Microsoft can go kick rocks.
 
2013-07-10 02:25:09 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: JohnBigBootay: red5ish: Personally I'm going to see what people have to say about their next generation consoles AFTER they get them home and play them for a couple of months.

That's normally what I do but for some reason I pre-ordered. I bought on a whim.  I have no blu-ray and want one and my htpc died so I figured what the hell, it's summer and I'll hardly use the TV until October anyway. If it sucks, it sucks. God knows I've blown $500 on stupider shiat than this. Frankly I'm not too worried about it.

You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks.  Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????


I do have to agree with this, though.  While I've already pre-ordered an Xbox One and a PS4, if you just want a bad ass blu-ray player, you can get some incredible ones for way, way cheaper than you're going to pay for the XBox, including some that would rival a good HTPC, pre-built.

That said, I work with software and computers all day, so I completely understand not wanting to put one together at home or to have to futz around with getting a low dollar unit to do what I want.  I would literally rather do laundry at this point.
 
2013-07-10 02:26:30 PM  

Clutch2013: Antimatter: whizbangthedirtfarmer: What MS and Sony seem to overlook is that there are a large number of people out there who can play games, or not, and it's not a big deal. They also overlook the Glorious PC Gaming people as well.

So what exactly do you want them to do?  They know damn well there are folks who don't yet have the console, or have other thigns to play.  Tjhat's why they spend millions on marketing: to get those people to want to buy their system.

I wasn't getting this day one anyway, but Microsoft's done a bang up job of convincing me to look elsewhere when I do upgrade. Privacy issues aside, the Kinect is utterly useless to me, and the fact that you need that POS just to even operate the XBox One is some major-league bullshiat. I love my 360 and I love Forza, but as long as the Kinect is mandatory, the system and Microsoft can go kick rocks.


You do not need the Kinect to operate the Xbox One.  There is plenty of shiat to beat up MS over on this round of console, but you don't have to spread falsehoods.
 
2013-07-10 02:27:35 PM  

FitzShivering: I know it's hard for people online to believe, but it could also be because online nerd ragers make up about 1% of the actual gaming world.  Microsoft could quite literally screw a pooch in their presentation, and they are still going to sell a bajillion of these, because most people either don't know or don't care about the (legitimate) issues people have had and have with the Xbox One.


Ahh yes, which is why Microsoft ignored that "1% of the actual gaming world" and kept going full steam ahead with the DRM and 24-hour pinging.

Ohhh wait....
 
2013-07-10 02:30:11 PM  

FitzShivering: You do not need the Kinect to operate the Xbox One. There is plenty of shiat to beat up MS over on this round of console, but you don't have to spread falsehoods.


Yes you do. You don't need to USE the Kinect to operate the Xbox One, but you do have to have the Kinect plugged into the console. They have said multiple times that the Xbox One will not operate without a Kinect plugged into it.

You don't have to spread falsehood either.
 
2013-07-10 02:37:32 PM  

frepnog: ThatDarkFellow: twatbasket

o_0

[images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 250x333]

now that's a name i've not heard in a long time.


Taking a slang term for genitalia and throwing an inanimate object behind it always makes the best word combos
 
2013-07-10 02:37:54 PM  

Khellendros: nocturnal001: No, no they won't. People buy the hot new game, they are less likely to buy the old game as there is something new and shiny out. If you do not understand that then you have never played video games or dealt with any media really. You also forget that the system is intended as a media hub. If an early adopter has to wait a month that is an extra month of video rentals, dlc, xbl games that he is not purchasing through the system.

You seem to completely neglect the concept of launch titles and second gen titles, and how the first few months of every console has worked for the last 15 years.  You also clearly don't have a grasp on the gaming market, or how early adopters work in the electronics market.  A 14 or 21 day lag for a percentage of day 1 buyers means nothing.  It won't affect a dime.  It will affect different retailers as they fight to get more units in to satisfy the 100 phone calls a day, but it won't affect Sony or MS profits, so long as their supply chain doesn't lag more than a few weeks, and it flattens out after 30 days or so (you know, like every console does).

You think they're leaving money on the table - you're wrong.  If they were, their supply chain would overtax to make sure they made the most money.  That's why they don't have every console built on day 1.  They know the models better than anyone else.  If they saw a drop of money by not satisfying 20% of day 1 buyers on day 1, they'd have more built for day 1 and rake in the cash.  But they've realized that the early adopters are locked.  They've been locked for the last 10 consoles.  They know long before launch which system they're going to buy.


So people who buy the console 6 months later always go back and buy the launch titles? Come on man, you can't be serious.

It's nice to know that we are now talking about a demand lag of 2 weeks, considering the rest of the thread was crowing about how these things will be off the shelves for months due to their huge success and the amazing demand.  2 weeks lag isn't much of an impact, months would be a major impact. I believe we have been arguing about different things.
 
2013-07-10 02:38:05 PM  

JohnBigBootay: whizbangthedirtfarmer: You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks. Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????

I don't know really, like I said, impulse buy. I actually really dug the tv part of the presentation and like I said, my htpc just died so I think I'll enjoy the netflix, hulu, amzn, hbo video shiat. I know half you guys could all build a better unit for less but I'm sort of done building computers at home. If I actually play a game myself it will be a bonus though I'm sure the frequently visiting children will enjoy it. Either that or set my house on fire for buying the wrong thing.


Man I really hope you like the XBone TV stuff, cause otherwise this makes no sense at all. You could get a PS4 for $100 less, still get the Blu-Ray player, but most importantly you would get Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon for FREE instead of paying for XBox Live every month. Granted, HBO Go isn't on PSN (blame HBO for that, lame as hell) so if that's a big deal for you then maybe not. That said, you can probably still get a cheaper Blu-Ray with most or all of those features, too. Whatever, to each his own.
 
2013-07-10 02:51:15 PM  
quiotu:Both PS4 and XB1 will sell, but it's all but guaranteed that everyone will keep their old system... because nothing's backwards compatible.  People will be playing their PS3s and 360s long after the new consoles come out.  Sony embraces the idea of having multiple generations of consoles selling next to each other, but Microsoft might have a problem with that.  They couldn't drop support for the Xbox fast enough when the 360 came out, because it's the same marketing strategy they do with their OS software.  If they pull that again with the 360, that could cost them huge.

Agreed about Sony. They still supported the PS2 until quite recently.

And I'd still give them the edge overall. Price is the biggest factor (I expect the XB1 to drop by $100 within a year of launch, expensive camera be damned), but there's also the 3rd party thing.

The Wii sold great, but a lot of 3rd party developers didn't know how to integrate motion controls into their games, so they didn't bother, beyond a few token offerings. The Wii-U tablet controller has the same problem; plenty of companies just don't know what to do with the thing, so there aren't many games out. But Nintendo's 1st party offerings usually made up for it on the Wii, and might on the Wii-U if they ever come out.

Microsoft has the same problem, but not the same advantage. Developers didn't exactly flock to the Kinect for the 360, and probably won't do so for the XB1 either. And unlike Nintendo, Microsoft doesn't have a huge array of beloved first-party properties to make up for a lack of third-party ones.

Sure, they have some great looking stuff coming out, even some impressive exclusives, but as time goes by I can't see why any company looking to develop a triple A game won't either release on both the XB1 and PS4, or just the PS4; they have the most familiar setup, you just sit on a couch holding a controller. Adding motion and voice controls would be a lot harder than taking them out. Throw in better indie support, and I can see Sony ending up with a much better library in the end.
 
2013-07-10 03:08:31 PM  

scottydoesntknow: FitzShivering: You do not need the Kinect to operate the Xbox One. There is plenty of shiat to beat up MS over on this round of console, but you don't have to spread falsehoods.

Yes you do. You don't need to USE the Kinect to operate the Xbox One, but you do have to have the Kinect plugged into the console. They have said multiple times that the Xbox One will not operate without a Kinect plugged into it.

You don't have to spread falsehood either.


You also have to have a power cord plugged in.  It is _part_ of the system.  It doesn't mean you have to use it to operate it, which you damn well know is what he said, and what I was responding to.
 
2013-07-10 03:14:01 PM  

FitzShivering: scottydoesntknow: FitzShivering: You do not need the Kinect to operate the Xbox One. There is plenty of shiat to beat up MS over on this round of console, but you don't have to spread falsehoods.

Yes you do. You don't need to USE the Kinect to operate the Xbox One, but you do have to have the Kinect plugged into the console. They have said multiple times that the Xbox One will not operate without a Kinect plugged into it.

You don't have to spread falsehood either.

You also have to have a power cord plugged in.  It is _part_ of the system.  It doesn't mean you have to use it to operate it, which you damn well know is what he said, and what I was responding to.


...I'm done. That's probably the stupidest thing I'll read all week.
 
2013-07-10 03:27:49 PM  

Clutch2013: FitzShivering: scottydoesntknow: FitzShivering: You do not need the Kinect to operate the Xbox One. There is plenty of shiat to beat up MS over on this round of console, but you don't have to spread falsehoods.

Yes you do. You don't need to USE the Kinect to operate the Xbox One, but you do have to have the Kinect plugged into the console. They have said multiple times that the Xbox One will not operate without a Kinect plugged into it.

You don't have to spread falsehood either.

You also have to have a power cord plugged in.  It is _part_ of the system.  It doesn't mean you have to use it to operate it, which you damn well know is what he said, and what I was responding to.

...I'm done. That's probably the stupidest thing I'll read all week.


Phew, glad I wasn't the only one.
 
2013-07-10 03:27:55 PM  

FitzShivering: whizbangthedirtfarmer: JohnBigBootay: red5ish: Personally I'm going to see what people have to say about their next generation consoles AFTER they get them home and play them for a couple of months.

That's normally what I do but for some reason I pre-ordered. I bought on a whim.  I have no blu-ray and want one and my htpc died so I figured what the hell, it's summer and I'll hardly use the TV until October anyway. If it sucks, it sucks. God knows I've blown $500 on stupider shiat than this. Frankly I'm not too worried about it.

You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks.  Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????

I do have to agree with this, though.  While I've already pre-ordered an Xbox One and a PS4, if you just want a bad ass blu-ray player, you can get some incredible ones for way, way cheaper than you're going to pay for the XBox, including some that would rival a good HTPC, pre-built.



Eh.  I've been putting together PCs for a long time (well, relatively: I remember having to flip IRQ switches on new cards), and I have to say that today's PC stuff is WAY easier and FAR less time consuming or expensive than it used to be.  I put together a HTPC for about seven hundred bucks, complete with tuner, bluray, and extra hard drives to store the TV shows I rarely watch.  It worked on the first try, and has given me no problems since.  Hell, my work computer's power supply stopped working a few days ago.  I swapped a new one in and had the thing running in about fifteen minutes.
 
2013-07-10 03:33:56 PM  
When there's only one, of course it sells out quickly.
 
2013-07-10 03:52:41 PM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: and I have to say that today's PC stuff is WAY easier and FAR less time consuming or expensive than it used to be.


putting a new pc together is easier than building a model from Duplo blocks and installing windows takes 20 minutes.

people act like building a pc is sooo hard.
 
2013-07-10 03:55:21 PM  

theresnothinglft: For a business this is stupid


Says the guy who can't figure this scenario out.
 
2013-07-10 04:51:08 PM  

frepnog: whizbangthedirtfarmer: and I have to say that today's PC stuff is WAY easier and FAR less time consuming or expensive than it used to be.

putting a new pc together is easier than building a model from Duplo blocks and installing windows takes 20 minutes.

people act like building a pc is sooo hard.


Hey, let's not exaggerate here, its not easier than building a Duplo model.. its exactly as hard as building a Duplo model.
 
2013-07-10 04:54:49 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Ahh yes, which is why Microsoft ignored that "1% of the actual gaming world" and kept going full steam ahead with the DRM and 24-hour pinging.


So they decided to be risk averse. That doesn't mean the prior poster was wrong. I tend to believe him. The online gaming communities tend to be echo chamber circle-jerks and don't reflect more than a small percentage of consumers. I spend plenty on video games, and I don't think that I've once had a situation in which the DRM, sharing or 24-hour check-in would have affected me in the least; consequently, even though I might biatch about it in principle, I just don't care all that much in practice.
 
2013-07-10 05:23:30 PM  

FitzShivering: scottydoesntknow: FitzShivering: You do not need the Kinect to operate the Xbox One. There is plenty of shiat to beat up MS over on this round of console, but you don't have to spread falsehoods.

Yes you do. You don't need to USE the Kinect to operate the Xbox One, but you do have to have the Kinect plugged into the console. They have said multiple times that the Xbox One will not operate without a Kinect plugged into it.

You don't have to spread falsehood either.

You also have to have a power cord plugged in.  It is _part_ of the system.  It doesn't mean you have to use it to operate it, which you damn well know is what he said, and what I was responding to.


#dealwithit

/that worked out reeeeaaaal well.
 
2013-07-10 05:34:36 PM  

JohnBigBootay: whizbangthedirtfarmer: You know ... you can buy a pretty good Blu-ray player for less than a hundred bucks. Why wait until October and pay a few hundred dollars extra for something you may or may not want????

I don't know really, like I said, impulse buy. I actually really dug the tv part of the presentation and like I said, my htpc just died so I think I'll enjoy the netflix, hulu, amzn, hbo video shiat. I know half you guys could all build a better unit for less but I'm sort of done building computers at home. If I actually play a game myself it will be a bonus though I'm sure the frequently visiting children will enjoy it. Either that or set my house on fire for buying the wrong thing.


You are aware that the XB180 charges a monthly fee to access the Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and HBO stuff you're already paying for?  So, you pay the fee for your sub, then you pay a sub to access your sub.  I know you're a rich internet millionaire or whatnot, but you won't stay that way if you keep throwing money out the window for the privilege to throw money out the window monthly.
 
2013-07-10 05:39:30 PM  

kronicfeld: scottydoesntknow: Ahh yes, which is why Microsoft ignored that "1% of the actual gaming world" and kept going full steam ahead with the DRM and 24-hour pinging.

So they decided to be risk averse. That doesn't mean the prior poster was wrong. I tend to believe him. The online gaming communities tend to be echo chamber circle-jerks and don't reflect more than a small percentage of consumers. I spend plenty on video games, and I don't think that I've once had a situation in which the DRM, sharing or 24-hour check-in would have affected me in the least; consequently, even though I might biatch about it in principle, I just don't care all that much in practice.


So you're trying to tell me that a "small percentage" of gamers forced one of the largest companies on the planet to do a complete reversal on policies they were fighting tooth-n-nail to keep in?

C'mon man. The backlash against them was HUGE. It was way more than "1%" of gamers and trying to pretend it was an online-gaming community circle jerk is disingenuous at best. Microsoft was poised to lose the American market (PS4 was outpacing XB1 3:2 in pre-orders prior to the reversal), which is pretty much the only market they succeed in.

It really wouldn't have affected me or my friends negatively either. I've got a stable internet, I buy all my games new, etc. But it's the principle of the thing. None of us were going to buy the XB1.
 
2013-07-10 05:49:10 PM  
In the end I'm just gonna sit back and watch as hilarity ensues on launch day, and then again on Black Friday as some people will get into a physical fight or result tactics such as discharging Pepper Spray
to get thier hands on these systems. Someone will likely even end up getting killed as a result a mad rush to get one...and of course there are the people on Ebay who are going to make some big money when the OMG I got to have it now crowd can't go anywhere else to get one...
 
2013-07-10 07:17:44 PM  

kronicfeld: scottydoesntknow: Ahh yes, which is why Microsoft ignored that "1% of the actual gaming world" and kept going full steam ahead with the DRM and 24-hour pinging.

So they decided to be risk averse. That doesn't mean the prior poster was wrong. I tend to believe him. The online gaming communities tend to be echo chamber circle-jerks and don't reflect more than a small percentage of consumers. I spend plenty on video games, and I don't think that I've once had a situation in which the DRM, sharing or 24-hour check-in would have affected me in the least; consequently, even though I might biatch about it in principle, I just don't care all that much in practice.




We also don't know what was happening internally in the xbox camp.
Two of the biggest proponents for the online model left the company. No one really explained the pluses of the system and it never got put out there for customers to decide.
I still believe the system was built to attract the publishers. It may have been cancelled because of the vendors weighing in on Microsoft monopolizing the distribution system.

We just don't know at this point. But I doubt it was constantly online and upgrade Hungary fanboys who made Microsoft think about its offline losses.
 
2013-07-10 08:11:58 PM  

Antimatter: AdamK: Majick Thise: How the hell do you sell out of preorders?

limited supply

Wii U sold out at launch as well

as did the Vita

Right.  the key is to continue the sales post release, which both the vita and wii U failed to do.  Pre-order numbers really don't mean anything in this day and age.  I'd say the game attach rate will be the bigger signal.


sure, eventually

took ps3 2 years to get "must-have" software, took 3ds a year to have any software worth playing, i also remember the ps2 having an awful first year but it didn't matter because of backwards compatibility and dreamcast wasn't a threat

hard to predict whether a console will knock it out of the park immediately

/the Ouya sold out really fast too
 
2013-07-10 11:14:16 PM  

nocturnal001: So people who buy the console 6 months later always go back and buy the launch titles? Come on man, you can't be serious.

It's nice to know that we are now talking about a demand lag of 2 weeks, considering the rest of the thread was crowing about how these things will be off the shelves for months due to their huge success and the amazing demand. 2 weeks lag isn't much of an impact, months would be a major impact. I believe we have been arguing about different things.


Why do you insist on continually putting words in my mouth?  Are you completely incapable of reading?  I've been saying phrases like "a few weeks", and 14 or 21 days in EVERY POST.  I've been talking about day 1 buyers being delayed a few days or a couple of weeks in reference to your idea that not having enough at launch will somehow cost Sony or MS money.  They won't lose any money, none of them have.

You're talking bullshiat about them not having consoles 6 months after launch?  WTF are you smoking?  Of course they'd lose money if they didn't have consoles 6 months after launch, I outright said it in an earlier post:

Khellendros: Now, if you're still out a few months later, you have a problem. Casual users or tech laggards may let apathy prevent them from purchasing something later, but we're talking about leading edge, day one buyers. Very specific and very predictable market group, and they'll come back a week later if they have to.


What company had a major console with supply problems six months after launch?
 
2013-07-11 04:57:46 PM  

Khellendros: nocturnal001: So people who buy the console 6 months later always go back and buy the launch titles? Come on man, you can't be serious.

It's nice to know that we are now talking about a demand lag of 2 weeks, considering the rest of the thread was crowing about how these things will be off the shelves for months due to their huge success and the amazing demand. 2 weeks lag isn't much of an impact, months would be a major impact. I believe we have been arguing about different things.

Why do you insist on continually putting words in my mouth?  Are you completely incapable of reading?  I've been saying phrases like "a few weeks", and 14 or 21 days in EVERY POST.  I've been talking about day 1 buyers being delayed a few days or a couple of weeks in reference to your idea that not having enough at launch will somehow cost Sony or MS money.  They won't lose any money, none of them have.

You're talking bullshiat about them not having consoles 6 months after launch?  WTF are you smoking?  Of course they'd lose money if they didn't have consoles 6 months after launch, I outright said it in an earlier post:

Khellendros: Now, if you're still out a few months later, you have a problem. Casual users or tech laggards may let apathy prevent them from purchasing something later, but we're talking about leading edge, day one buyers. Very specific and very predictable market group, and they'll come back a week later if they have to.

What company had a major console with supply problems six months after launch?


I didn't put words into your mouth. I was making some statements in the thread, was responded to, and you jumped in as well.

Why even argue about whether or not they will sell out if we are only talking about a single week where they are sold out?
 
2013-07-11 07:40:13 PM  

nocturnal001: Why even argue about whether or not they will sell out if we are only talking about a single week where they are sold out?


First off - again you're misstating my position.  I said 14 or 21 days at most.  But assuming that, we're arguing because you made a moronic statement like this:

nocturnal001: In related news, both MS and Sony failed to meet the initial demand for their consoles, leaving money on the table.


... and then spent half a dozen posts attempting to defend the idea that companies that don't have enough consoles for day 1 launch are "leaving money on the table".  I then said that it's not a big deal if they don't have enough on day 1, because day 1 buyers will return and pay just as much money in the following couple of weeks as new shipments came in.  No one would lose money, and the supply chains wouldn't be as stressed as if they attempted to have everything on launch day.

Then we ended up here, where you've spend 3 posts backpedaling because you seem to have finally realized how moronic your original statement was.
 
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