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(NBC News)   Own a Ford F-250? Might want to check if it's still there   (nbcnews.com) divider line 112
    More: Obvious, Ford F-150, Cadillac Escalade, Ford Motor Company, Chevy Tahoe, Audi A4  
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12617 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2013 at 1:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-09 04:06:02 PM  

EnronX: 1.2 Mega Watt (1200kW), 1600HP motor?
Good lord could those be put into passenger vehicles?



Sure!  If you can find one that won't break.

What type of HP do you get with the current generation of Teslas or Nissan Leaf?

Sportiest Tesla Model S: 310kW
Sportiest Tesla Roadster: 215kW
Nissan Leaf: 80kW

A Miata with about 680kW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U5cTPC6EwE
 
2013-07-09 04:06:33 PM  
Slight threadjack, but why the hell doesn't Ford make a smaller truck like the Ranger anymore?  I just need enough truck to get me to the dump on weekends and pick up the occasional yard of mulch or dirt.  I have no need or desire to drive a 100" wide truck.

Bought a Tacoma 8 years ago for the famed reliability, which did not turn out to be the case...
 
2013-07-09 04:07:15 PM  

Fissile: Gas at near $4 a gallon for a long time now, and this still the most popular vehicle among American farkwits.  Unbelievable.


I don't get it myself.  But the Big 2.5 and Nissan and Toyota make an assload of money off  trucks, and frankly, there is little incentive to improve them or their fuel economy when you have people who will pay whatever the going rate to get one.  Look how long it's been since the Titan was updated?  10 years?!?  Or the Tacoma, or Ranger (which has been killed off with no replacement), Frontier, Chevy's trucks (until next year) and so on.
 
2013-07-09 04:08:50 PM  

bingo the psych-o: stuffy: It is a little difficult to move all the bodies in a mini.

Stalk more midgets.


Alternatively, get a woodchipper.

The proliferation of oversized vehicles in America really makes me ill. WTF are you people thinking? More pollution for our children to deal with? Yay!! More dependency on foreign oil? Yay!! This society of consumption is pretty goddamn retarded IMHO. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but at least my cars get 25+ MPH in commute traffic instead of the 12 or so you'd get in one of these beasts.
 
2013-07-09 04:12:43 PM  

Jument: bingo the psych-o: stuffy: It is a little difficult to move all the bodies in a mini.

Stalk more midgets.

Alternatively, get a woodchipper.

The proliferation of oversized vehicles in America really makes me ill. WTF are you people thinking? More pollution for our children to deal with? Yay!! More dependency on foreign oil? Yay!! This society of consumption is pretty goddamn retarded IMHO. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but at least my cars get 25+ MPH in commute traffic instead of the 12 or so you'd get in one of these beasts.


So YOU'RE that asshole always jamming up the left lane...
 
2013-07-09 04:18:59 PM  

Mi-5: Fissile: Gas at near $4 a gallon for a long time now, and this still the most popular vehicle among American farkwits.  Unbelievable.

I don't get it myself.  But the Big 2.5 and Nissan and Toyota make an assload of money off  trucks, and frankly, there is little incentive to improve them or their fuel economy when you have people who will pay whatever the going rate to get one.  Look how long it's been since the Titan was updated?  10 years?!?  Or the Tacoma, or Ranger (which has been killed off with no replacement), Frontier, Chevy's trucks (until next year) and so on.


Fuel economy has gotten a lot better in recent years.  Ford has their EcoBoost engine, Dodge is rolling out 8 speed transmissions, and Chevy apparently did something with the upcoming Silverado line to improve economy.

My dad's truck is only 3 years older than mine, but he averages about 13-14mpg overall whereas I average about 17-18mpg overall, and on a recent road trip I managed to get it up to just under 23mpg over about 300 miles.

The big things holding back further fuel economy gains are size and weight.  In the last decade compact pickup sales have constantly fallen while full size sales have mostly held steady and have improved the last couple years, so manufacturers aren't going to shrink the vehicles to save weight - the market clearly prefers larger pickups.

The only way left to shed weight is through the use of more advanced materials.  That means less cheap and easy to work with steel, and more expensive and difficult to work with aluminum and magnesium.  More expensive materials means that prices will go up and/or profit margins will shrink, and obviously that's something the manufacturers are trying to avoid.
 
2013-07-09 04:25:05 PM  

Jerkwater: Slight threadjack, but why the hell doesn't Ford make a smaller truck like the Ranger anymore?  I just need enough truck to get me to the dump on weekends and pick up the occasional yard of mulch or dirt.  I have no need or desire to drive a 100" wide truck.

Bought a Tacoma 8 years ago for the famed reliability, which did not turn out to be the case...


they still make the Ranger.

You just can't buy it in the US anymore.

I drive an F-150 myself. 'tis a fine truck indeed. except for all the enterior plastic trim crap.The bed is well dented and scratched. but its a basic two seater, V6, standard fleet type truck. that's the new Ranger.

Most people I know who get small trucks go with the Dodge Dakota.
 
2013-07-09 04:26:50 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Mi-5: Fissile: Gas at near $4 a gallon for a long time now, and this still the most popular vehicle among American farkwits.  Unbelievable.

I don't get it myself.  But the Big 2.5 and Nissan and Toyota make an assload of money off  trucks, and frankly, there is little incentive to improve them or their fuel economy when you have people who will pay whatever the going rate to get one.  Look how long it's been since the Titan was updated?  10 years?!?  Or the Tacoma, or Ranger (which has been killed off with no replacement), Frontier, Chevy's trucks (until next year) and so on.

Fuel economy has gotten a lot better in recent years.  Ford has their EcoBoost engine, Dodge is rolling out 8 speed transmissions, and Chevy apparently did something with the upcoming Silverado line to improve economy.

My dad's truck is only 3 years older than mine, but he averages about 13-14mpg overall whereas I average about 17-18mpg overall, and on a recent road trip I managed to get it up to just under 23mpg over about 300 miles.

The big things holding back further fuel economy gains are size and weight.  In the last decade compact pickup sales have constantly fallen while full size sales have mostly held steady and have improved the last couple years, so manufacturers aren't going to shrink the vehicles to save weight - the market clearly prefers larger pickups.

The only way left to shed weight is through the use of more advanced materials.  That means less cheap and easy to work with steel, and more expensive and difficult to work with aluminum and magnesium.  More expensive materials means that prices will go up and/or profit margins will shrink, and obviously that's something the manufacturers are trying to avoid.


But the smaller truck thing is a joke.  Ford has a WORLD-CLASS Ranger it sells with a diesel engine everywhere else in the world and we get stiffed.  As much as I like the F150 with EcoBoost, all I really need is the Ranger sized pickup.  It gets good fuel economy and is small enough that I don't have to find an acre of space to park it.
 
2013-07-09 04:26:52 PM  

Jerkwater: Slight threadjack, but why the hell doesn't Ford make a smaller truck like the Ranger anymore?  I just need enough truck to get me to the dump on weekends and pick up the occasional yard of mulch or dirt.  I have no need or desire to drive a 100" wide truck.

Bought a Tacoma 8 years ago for the famed reliability, which did not turn out to be the case...


With current engine technology they can basically get the same gas mileage out of a v6 f 150 that they could out of a ranger but the 150 has like 3x the towing capacity and 2x the hauling capacity which basically makes the ranger functionally obselete piece of shiat.

Also a 150, 250, or single tire 350 is only around 73" wide not 100. I dont even think a 350-550 duelly is 100" wide. Maybe a f 650 commercial truck is.
 
2013-07-09 04:27:38 PM  

Cerebral Knievel: Jerkwater: Slight threadjack, but why the hell doesn't Ford make a smaller truck like the Ranger anymore?  I just need enough truck to get me to the dump on weekends and pick up the occasional yard of mulch or dirt.  I have no need or desire to drive a 100" wide truck.

Bought a Tacoma 8 years ago for the famed reliability, which did not turn out to be the case...

they still make the Ranger.

You just can't buy it in the US anymore.

I drive an F-150 myself. 'tis a fine truck indeed. except for all the enterior plastic trim crap.The bed is well dented and scratched. but its a basic two seater, V6, standard fleet type truck. that's the new Ranger.

Most people I know who get small trucks go with the Dodge Dakota.


The Dakota has been out of production since 2011.
 
2013-07-09 04:30:21 PM  
I love my 1997 Ford Ranger.

(I'd love it more if it were a bit less rusty)
 
2013-07-09 04:31:26 PM  

Mi-5: TuteTibiImperes: Mi-5: Fissile: Gas at near $4 a gallon for a long time now, and this still the most popular vehicle among American farkwits.  Unbelievable.

I don't get it myself.  But the Big 2.5 and Nissan and Toyota make an assload of money off  trucks, and frankly, there is little incentive to improve them or their fuel economy when you have people who will pay whatever the going rate to get one.  Look how long it's been since the Titan was updated?  10 years?!?  Or the Tacoma, or Ranger (which has been killed off with no replacement), Frontier, Chevy's trucks (until next year) and so on.

Fuel economy has gotten a lot better in recent years.  Ford has their EcoBoost engine, Dodge is rolling out 8 speed transmissions, and Chevy apparently did something with the upcoming Silverado line to improve economy.

My dad's truck is only 3 years older than mine, but he averages about 13-14mpg overall whereas I average about 17-18mpg overall, and on a recent road trip I managed to get it up to just under 23mpg over about 300 miles.

The big things holding back further fuel economy gains are size and weight.  In the last decade compact pickup sales have constantly fallen while full size sales have mostly held steady and have improved the last couple years, so manufacturers aren't going to shrink the vehicles to save weight - the market clearly prefers larger pickups.

The only way left to shed weight is through the use of more advanced materials.  That means less cheap and easy to work with steel, and more expensive and difficult to work with aluminum and magnesium.  More expensive materials means that prices will go up and/or profit margins will shrink, and obviously that's something the manufacturers are trying to avoid.

But the smaller truck thing is a joke.  Ford has a WORLD-CLASS Ranger it sells with a diesel engine everywhere else in the world and we get stiffed.  As much as I like the F150 with EcoBoost, all I really need is the Ranger sized pickup.  It gets good f ...


The global Ranger is bigger than our Ranger was.  It can't be imported into the US economically due to the chicken tax.  Plus, sales of compact pickups have been on a constant decline:

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

There's just no business case to be made for building a production line in the US for a vehicle that's close to the size of the F-150, would likely cannibalize some F-150 sales, and is part of a segment on the decline.
 
2013-07-09 04:41:31 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Jument: bingo the psych-o: stuffy: It is a little difficult to move all the bodies in a mini.

Stalk more midgets.

Alternatively, get a woodchipper.

The proliferation of oversized vehicles in America really makes me ill. WTF are you people thinking? More pollution for our children to deal with? Yay!! More dependency on foreign oil? Yay!! This society of consumption is pretty goddamn retarded IMHO. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but at least my cars get 25+ MPH in commute traffic instead of the 12 or so you'd get in one of these beasts.

So YOU'RE that asshole always jamming up the left lane...


You sound American. Protip: one can get reasonable mileage without hypermiling if you don't buy a stupidly oversized SUV or truck in the first place.

My primary ride is a Miata. Not a high mileage car by any stretch but I average 26 mph in mostly commute traffic.
 
2013-07-09 04:42:15 PM  

Jument: Loaf's Tray: Jument: bingo the psych-o: stuffy: It is a little difficult to move all the bodies in a mini.

Stalk more midgets.

Alternatively, get a woodchipper.

The proliferation of oversized vehicles in America really makes me ill. WTF are you people thinking? More pollution for our children to deal with? Yay!! More dependency on foreign oil? Yay!! This society of consumption is pretty goddamn retarded IMHO. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but at least my cars get 25+ MPH in commute traffic instead of the 12 or so you'd get in one of these beasts.

So YOU'RE that asshole always jamming up the left lane...

You sound American. Protip: one can get reasonable mileage without hypermiling if you don't buy a stupidly oversized SUV or truck in the first place.

My primary ride is a Miata. Not a high mileage car by any stretch but I average 26 mph in mostly commute traffic.


Egg on face! I meant to say MPG. The yolk's on me!
 
2013-07-09 04:44:44 PM  

Jerkwater: Slight threadjack, but why the hell doesn't Ford make a smaller truck like the Ranger anymore?  I just need enough truck to get me to the dump on weekends and pick up the occasional yard of mulch or dirt.  I have no need or desire to drive a 100" wide truck.

Bought a Tacoma 8 years ago for the famed reliability, which did not turn out to be the case...


Completely agree; I wanted a small pickup for odd jobs around the house, dump runs etc.  You know what? the current options for a small pickup, all suck!  I ended up with an F150, yes it has a trailer hitch and yes i use the bed!
 
2013-07-09 04:46:54 PM  

Hollie Maea: EnronX: 1.2 Mega Watt (1200kW), 1600HP motor?
Good lord could those be put into passenger vehicles?


Sure!  If you can find one that won't break.

What type of HP do you get with the current generation of Teslas or Nissan Leaf?

Sportiest Tesla Model S: 310kW
Sportiest Tesla Roadster: 215kW
Nissan Leaf: 80kW

A Miata with about 680kW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U5cTPC6EwE


Awesome, thanks Hollie Maea.

On the Miata how much weight and space do the batteries take up for that much KW?
Also curious what the theoretical range of a vehicle like that would be with such a massive power load?

FWIW my father loves his 2013 Leaf, he traded in his old 3 series BMW for it and doesn't seem to miss it one beat
 
2013-07-09 04:47:26 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Cerebral Knievel: Jerkwater: Slight threadjack, but why the hell doesn't Ford make a smaller truck like the Ranger anymore?  I just need enough truck to get me to the dump on weekends and pick up the occasional yard of mulch or dirt.  I have no need or desire to drive a 100" wide truck.

Bought a Tacoma 8 years ago for the famed reliability, which did not turn out to be the case...

they still make the Ranger.

You just can't buy it in the US anymore.

I drive an F-150 myself. 'tis a fine truck indeed. except for all the enterior plastic trim crap.The bed is well dented and scratched. but its a basic two seater, V6, standard fleet type truck. that's the new Ranger.

Most people I know who get small trucks go with the Dodge Dakota.

The Dakota has been out of production since 2011.


ahh.. did not know that... then... my F-150 is a 02 and my ram 150 is an '89

both inherited.... haven't been car shopping since 1992.

by the way, anyone have a spare A815 transmision for my Ram?
and has dodge gotten better about the transmissions?
 
2013-07-09 04:47:50 PM  

Jument: Loaf's Tray: Jument: bingo the psych-o: stuffy: It is a little difficult to move all the bodies in a mini.

Stalk more midgets.

Alternatively, get a woodchipper.

The proliferation of oversized vehicles in America really makes me ill. WTF are you people thinking? More pollution for our children to deal with? Yay!! More dependency on foreign oil? Yay!! This society of consumption is pretty goddamn retarded IMHO. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but at least my cars get 25+ MPH in commute traffic instead of the 12 or so you'd get in one of these beasts.

So YOU'RE that asshole always jamming up the left lane...

You sound American. Protip: one can get reasonable mileage without hypermiling if you don't buy a stupidly oversized SUV or truck in the first place.

My primary ride is a Miata. Not a high mileage car by any stretch but I average 26 mph in mostly commute traffic.


My v6 150 gets like 22-23 mpg and could like fit your miatta in the bed.
 
2013-07-09 05:02:07 PM  

boarch: boarch: The article says 350 not 250 subtard

wow i wish i could delete myself


You'll never be able to delete the wound to my heart...  :(

//subby
 
2013-07-09 05:10:08 PM  

EnronX: On the Miata how much weight and space do the batteries take up for that much KW?


Not much...since he was going for drag racing, he used Lithium Polymer cells, which have a very high power density.  I think the pack is only like 20kWh or so, but the cells can output at 60C (which means that not counting for voltage sag they can output 60kW/kWh.  It also means that they will drain in 1 minute if you are foolish enough to run them at that rate for that long).  If he took it on the road and drove like a normal person they would probably be good for about 75 miles.

In my pickup truck thought experiment above, I was using a lot more cells, but with less power capabilities.  I would be putting 2 180aH cells in parallel, so 360aH.  Those cells can handle 10C so they would be able to supply the Shiva with its 3000 amps.  The upshot is that with a 51kWh pack, even a big truck would get over 100 miles of range if you drove it normally on the freeway.
 
2013-07-09 05:10:49 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The global Ranger is bigger than our Ranger was. It can't be imported into the US economically due to the chicken tax. Plus, sales of compact pickups have been on a constant decline:


Gah.  Learn something new every day.  That is obnoxious.  I'd love to have a diesel ranger or foreign equivalent.
 
2013-07-09 05:11:32 PM  
I support these thieves 100%.  Anything to reduce the number of Fords on the road is a good thing

/Chevy
 
2013-07-09 05:16:28 PM  

harlock: I wonder what the stats are for a 2000 F-250.  I have a low mileage turbodiesel model that I use about once a month for hauling the trailer and other heavy stuff.   But it lives in a garage the rest of the time so it's not parked outside where visible.

Also for the trolls whining about people buying big trucks - at least in my case I actually use it for what it was intended for, not going to the grocery store.   My daily driver is a 30 MPG Mazda sport wagon.

I love the 7.3L turbodiesel.  Most reliable and powerful diesel engine that ever came with that truck.

-H


i got the 6.0 leaker after getting rid of the egr cooler it has been very reliable before that not so much
 
2013-07-09 05:17:01 PM  

Hollie Maea: The upshot is that with a 51kWh pack, even a big truck would get over 100 miles of range if you drove it normally on the freeway.


Correction...I forgot each motor has its own pack :)  The pack is actually 115kWh.  Even in the truck you should get over 250 miles.
 
2013-07-09 05:21:50 PM  

jjorsett: lunkhed: In the UK traditional auto theft has all but disappeared. Since proper anti-theft measures are on all cars (and a lot of bikes), you need the key to start it - hot-wiring just won't work.

Thieves instead burgle houses, looking for keys. Burglary has gone through the roof.

Yay for thieves.

Isn't the entire country carpeted with security cameras? I would think that all you'd have to do is track the car from the house to the chop shop via video recordings.


fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-07-09 05:24:59 PM  

Hollie Maea: EnronX: On the Miata how much weight and space do the batteries take up for that much KW?

Not much...since he was going for drag racing, he used Lithium Polymer cells, which have a very high power density.  I think the pack is only like 20kWh or so, but the cells can output at 60C (which means that not counting for voltage sag they can output 60kW/kWh.  It also means that they will drain in 1 minute if you are foolish enough to run them at that rate for that long).  If he took it on the road and drove like a normal person they would probably be good for about 75 miles.

In my pickup truck thought experiment above, I was using a lot more cells, but with less power capabilities.  I would be putting 2 180aH cells in parallel, so 360aH.  Those cells can handle 10C so they would be able to supply the Shiva with its 3000 amps.  The upshot is that with a 51kWh pack, even a big truck would get over 100 miles of range if you drove it normally on the freeway.


Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?
 
2013-07-09 05:26:40 PM  

Oldiron_79: Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?


I don't have a pickup so I don't really know,  but the decrease in range should be the same ratio as the decrease in gas mileage for an ICE truck
 
2013-07-09 05:41:42 PM  

Hollie Maea: Oldiron_79: Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?

I don't have a pickup so I don't really know,  but the decrease in range should be the same ratio as the decrease in gas mileage for an ICE truck


Well you lose about 6 mpg whether its a gasser that gets like 12 empty or a diesel that gets like 20 empty, so thats like 50%decrease on a gasser, like 30% decrease on an oil burner.
 
2013-07-09 05:53:29 PM  

Oldiron_79: Hollie Maea: Oldiron_79: Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?

I don't have a pickup so I don't really know,  but the decrease in range should be the same ratio as the decrease in gas mileage for an ICE truck

Well you lose about 6 mpg whether its a gasser that gets like 12 empty or a diesel that gets like 20 empty, so thats like 50%decrease on a gasser, like 30% decrease on an oil burner.


It's all about RPMs with the gas vs diesel.  Peak torque is usually at a relatively high RPM on a gas engine, so you need to rev it up to get the load moving, and the higher the RPMs, the move fuel you're using.  Diesels have peak torque at relatively low RPMs (and greater torque overall), so they don't need to work as hard to move a big load.

I know electric motors can make peak torque at 0 rpm, so, perhaps they would be well suited for a towing application.

GM, Chrysler, and Daimler teamed up to design what they call their 'two mode hybrid' system that actually works best in heavy vehicles (the system itself is pretty heavy and expensive, so it isn't a great fit for smaller or inexpensive cars).  GM  used it in the hybrid versions of their Tahoe, Silverado, and Escalade, and Daimler has used it in buses.
 
2013-07-09 06:00:25 PM  

Oldiron_79: Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?


It depends.  The weight actually matters less than what the rolling resistance works out to, the additional air resistance, etc...  Whether or not he gets regenerative braking working.

Final option is to toss a diesel generator into the trailer and run that to feed electricity to the motors/batteries to extend the range.
 
2013-07-09 06:03:10 PM  

Oldiron_79: Hollie Maea: Oldiron_79: Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?

I don't have a pickup so I don't really know,  but the decrease in range should be the same ratio as the decrease in gas mileage for an ICE truck

Well you lose about 6 mpg whether its a gasser that gets like 12 empty or a diesel that gets like 20 empty, so thats like 50%decrease on a gasser, like 30% decrease on an oil burner.


Sounds reasonable.  Probably would be closer to the oil burner since it has a flat torque band.  Also, like I mentioned I made an error and the empty range should be around 250 miles, not 100+.  Still, this wouldn't be the most practical vehicle.  I would probably mostly use it to go to tavern parking lots and taunt other truck owners into challenging me to one of those tug of war things they like to do.  Then rip their axles off.  Well, I'd do that once.  Then I would be killed dead.
 
2013-07-09 06:15:06 PM  

Jument: bingo the psych-o: stuffy: It is a little difficult to move all the bodies in a mini.

Stalk more midgets.

Alternatively, get a woodchipper.

The proliferation of oversized vehicles in America really makes me ill. WTF are you people thinking? More pollution for our children to deal with? Yay!! More dependency on foreign oil? Yay!! This society of consumption is pretty goddamn retarded IMHO. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but at least my cars get 25+ MPH in commute traffic instead of the 12 or so you'd get in one of these beasts.


I'm thinking that I need to make money, which means I need a vehicle that can tow a trailer with 800 pounds of tongue-weight. I'm thinking that I own a fixer-upper house and I need a vehicle that can fit full sheets of sheetrock and plywood in it. I'm thinking that because of the house, I need a vehicle that can take large amounts of brush or construction waste to the dump.

And without a truck to tow it, how do you suggest I bring home a woodchipper large enough to run a body through?
 
2013-07-09 06:20:36 PM  
I suspect I've taken a FWD sedan more times off the pavement than most Ford pickup trucks that I see.  (Minimum maintenance forest service "roads" can lead to great places!)

However, I'm not going to rant about people who buy big pickup trucks and try to justify it somehow.  It's their choice, and if it makes them happy, well, good for them.

But hey, don't try to pretend that you have a hard working truck when it nary has a scratch on it.  Nobody's buying that.
 
2013-07-09 06:21:31 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Oldiron_79: Hollie Maea: Oldiron_79: Even if it could go 100 mi driving normally(empty) on the freeway how far could it go with a giganormous 5th wheel trailer that weighs several times what the truck does?

I don't have a pickup so I don't really know,  but the decrease in range should be the same ratio as the decrease in gas mileage for an ICE truck

Well you lose about 6 mpg whether its a gasser that gets like 12 empty or a diesel that gets like 20 empty, so thats like 50%decrease on a gasser, like 30% decrease on an oil burner.

It's all about RPMs with the gas vs diesel.  Peak torque is usually at a relatively high RPM on a gas engine, so you need to rev it up to get the load moving, and the higher the RPMs, the move fuel you're using.  Diesels have peak torque at relatively low RPMs (and greater torque overall), so they don't need to work as hard to move a big load.

I know electric motors can make peak torque at 0 rpm, so, perhaps they would be well suited for a towing application.

GM, Chrysler, and Daimler teamed up to design what they call their 'two mode hybrid' system that actually works best in heavy vehicles (the system itself is pretty heavy and expensive, so it isn't a great fit for smaller or inexpensive cars).  GM  used it in the hybrid versions of their Tahoe, Silverado, and Escalade, and Daimler has used it in buses.


Yeah the peak torque at 0 rpm thing is intriqueing about electric. If you had a 3rd rail where batteries wasnt a concern all trucks would probably be electric.
 
2013-07-09 06:22:25 PM  
Decent muscle car + removable trailer hitch + tandem axle landscaping trailer = no need for truck in terms of construction tasks in a urban setting.
 
2013-07-09 06:25:42 PM  

To Wish Impossible Things: I suspect I've taken a FWD sedan more times off the pavement than most Ford pickup trucks that I see.  (Minimum maintenance forest service "roads" can lead to great places!)

However, I'm not going to rant about people who buy big pickup trucks and try to justify it somehow.  It's their choice, and if it makes them happy, well, good for them.

But hey, don't try to pretend that you have a hard working truck when it nary has a scratch on it.  Nobody's buying that.


My 2wd truck probably sees more off road than most 4wds, much of it on those forest service dirt fire "roads". They tend to have bumps that would bottom out a car in my area.
 
2013-07-09 06:28:43 PM  

studebaker hoch: Decent muscle car + removable trailer hitch + tandem axle landscaping trailer = no need for truck in terms of construction tasks in a urban setting.


Well for the folks complaining about the ranger being discontinued because they need a bed but not weight capacity a utility trailer pulled behind whatever car you like is probably better than a ranger for thier needs anyways
 
2013-07-09 06:31:00 PM  
GM and Ford should stop making these long, tall, wide-ass trucks. Most of the people who buy them probably don't even use them for hauling hardcore stuff or towing. just trips to the stores and back.
It's really hard to see around them when you're turning at an intersection, or if they park behind you on a parallel-parking street.

/ has a 1993 Toyota Xtra cab. Bare bones 4 cyl., manual doors/windows, auto trans. only has 135,000kms.  (drove less than 25,000kms in the three years I've had it).
In that time I've only had to fix two things that went wrong with it: from cat-back exhaust ($600 parts and labour), and a $25 thermostat. Gets between 300 - 425 kms per 50L tank from empty. Insurance only $600 per year. I think I have it better in almost every way v.s. one of those F-250's.
 
2013-07-09 06:35:13 PM  

Oldiron_79: My v6 150 gets like 22-23 mpg and could like fit your miatta in the bed.


Think about what you said for a moment. Why is it better to have a larger vehicle?

And bullshiat on that figure. You may get 23 highway but you do not get that in commuting traffic. I get 26 MPG during my commute. Not stop and go but pretty bad usually, which hundreds of feet of climb each way (two large valleys in between home and work). Highway my mileage is quite a lot higher than 26.

/bigger is better? that's what she said!
 
2013-07-09 06:36:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I know electric motors can make peak torque at 0 rpm, so, perhaps they would be well suited for a towing application.


They're beyond 'well suited', look up 'diesel-electric train', they're outstanding for towing applications.  The batteries, not so much.

I have a saying:
Electric has excellent motors, pathetic energy storage
Internal combustion has lousy motors, superior energy storage.

At some point, size wise, it's more efficient to run a dedicated generator that, because it doesn't need a wide power band, can be optimized for that power band to the point that even with the losses from going from a generator to a controller to a motor it's still more efficient than hooking the engine directly up to the drive train.
 
2013-07-09 06:46:28 PM  

Jument: Oldiron_79: My v6 150 gets like 22-23 mpg and could like fit your miatta in the bed.

Think about what you said for a moment. Why is it better to have a larger vehicle?

And bullshiat on that figure. You may get 23 highway but you do not get that in commuting traffic. I get 26 MPG during my commute. Not stop and go but pretty bad usually, which hundreds of feet of climb each way (two large valleys in between home and work). Highway my mileage is quite a lot higher than 26.

/bigger is better? that's what she said!


Well first off a miatta would not pull my boat or my junk cars so I am not gonna trade in on a Miatta no matter what

23 is definitely a highway mileage for me but city is like still over 20 empty(I averaged it over a couple of weeks) and like 21.6 and thats mostly city not much highway)
 
2013-07-09 06:51:17 PM  

Oldiron_79: Jument: Oldiron_79: My v6 150 gets like 22-23 mpg and could like fit your miatta in the bed.

Think about what you said for a moment. Why is it better to have a larger vehicle?

And bullshiat on that figure. You may get 23 highway but you do not get that in commuting traffic. I get 26 MPG during my commute. Not stop and go but pretty bad usually, which hundreds of feet of climb each way (two large valleys in between home and work). Highway my mileage is quite a lot higher than 26.

/bigger is better? that's what she said!

Well first off a miatta would not pull my boat or my junk cars so I am not gonna trade in on a Miatta no matter what

23 is definitely a highway mileage for me but city is like still over 20 empty(I averaged it over a couple of weeks) and like 21.6 and thats mostly city not much highway)


One man's "city" is not the same as another man's "city".  Where my parents live, you can cruise around the "city" at 40MPH and almost never stop, and the turns are huge and gentle.  Whereas for me, everywhere you turn is stop-and-go.  The difference between living where there are jobs and being retired.
 
2013-07-09 06:53:30 PM  

Jument: Oldiron_79: My v6 150 gets like 22-23 mpg and could like fit your miatta in the bed.

Think about what you said for a moment. Why is it better to have a larger vehicle?


I'll answer that one.  Bigger is better when you have enough people and/or stuff to move around.  I don't always have 7 or more people in my van but when I do I'm the only one around that can do it.  Not only that but I can move 7 people and tow damned near anything I could possibly want to tow at the same time.

Sure it sucks only getting 12/15 mpg.  But unlike so many whiners here I can afford it.  I can't afford to not be able to transport people and items.
 
2013-07-09 06:57:30 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Jument: Oldiron_79: My v6 150 gets like 22-23 mpg and could like fit your miatta in the bed.

Think about what you said for a moment. Why is it better to have a larger vehicle?

I'll answer that one.  Bigger is better when you have enough people and/or stuff to move around.  I don't always have 7 or more people in my van but when I do I'm the only one around that can do it.  Not only that but I can move 7 people and tow damned near anything I could possibly want to tow at the same time.

Sure it sucks only getting 12/15 mpg.  But unlike so many whiners here I can afford it.  I can't afford to not be able to transport people and items.


No - you need the huge vehicle for protection!   You need the giant suburban for Mom and the baby seat - it's armor to compensate for poor driving.
 
2013-07-09 07:00:38 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: I don't always have 7 or more people in my van but when I do I'm the only one around that can do it.


Tesla Model S (well not the "or more" part).  But yeah.
 
2013-07-09 07:23:43 PM  

Hollie Maea: Smeggy Smurf: I don't always have 7 or more people in my van but when I do I'm the only one around that can do it.

Tesla Model S (well not the "or more" part).  But yeah.


Only if at least 2 of them are children and you're willing to give up the storage space.  A van can carry 7+ and still have space to carry a reasonable amount of luggage for everyone to the airport.
 
2013-07-09 07:28:40 PM  

Oldiron_79: To Wish Impossible Things: I suspect I've taken a FWD sedan more times off the pavement than most Ford pickup trucks that I see.  (Minimum maintenance forest service "roads" can lead to great places!)

However, I'm not going to rant about people who buy big pickup trucks and try to justify it somehow.  It's their choice, and if it makes them happy, well, good for them.

But hey, don't try to pretend that you have a hard working truck when it nary has a scratch on it.  Nobody's buying that.

My 2wd truck probably sees more off road than most 4wds, much of it on those forest service dirt fire "roads". They tend to have bumps that would bottom out a car in my area.


Yep, that does suck.  Not so much the bumps, but the protruding rocks that look ready to rip something off the bottom of my car.

I've had to sit back and think for a few minutes about how I was going to proceed.
 
2013-07-09 07:28:55 PM  

Firethorn: Hollie Maea: Smeggy Smurf: I don't always have 7 or more people in my van but when I do I'm the only one around that can do it.

Tesla Model S (well not the "or more" part).  But yeah.

Only if at least 2 of them are children and you're willing to give up the storage space.  A van can carry 7+ and still have space to carry a reasonable amount of luggage for everyone to the airport.


OK...Tesla Model X then, when it comes out :)  Alright I'm done being an obnoxious EV evangelist.  I'll try anyway.  Oh yeah and with the Model S you still have the "frunk" when you put kids in the third row.

OK Now I'm done.
 
2013-07-09 07:30:52 PM  

To Wish Impossible Things: Yep, that does suck.  Not so much the bumps, but the protruding rocks that look ready to rip something off the bottom of my car.


My dad took us up to Bird Creek Meadows (Mt. Adams wilderness) in a Toyota Camry last summer.  I...would not advise it (well in such a vehicle that is...Bird Creek Meadows is great).  How that thing survived the trip is beyond me.
 
2013-07-09 07:39:50 PM  

To Wish Impossible Things: Oldiron_79: To Wish Impossible Things: I suspect I've taken a FWD sedan more times off the pavement than most Ford pickup trucks that I see.  (Minimum maintenance forest service "roads" can lead to great places!)

However, I'm not going to rant about people who buy big pickup trucks and try to justify it somehow.  It's their choice, and if it makes them happy, well, good for them.

But hey, don't try to pretend that you have a hard working truck when it nary has a scratch on it.  Nobody's buying that.

My 2wd truck probably sees more off road than most 4wds, much of it on those forest service dirt fire "roads". They tend to have bumps that would bottom out a car in my area.

Yep, that does suck.  Not so much the bumps, but the protruding rocks that look ready to rip something off the bottom of my car.

I've had to sit back and think for a few minutes about how I was going to proceed.


Yeah Ive seen some protruding rocks that could take an oil pan off a car on these "roads"
 
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