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(The Atlantic Wire)   Orson Scott Card adresses efforts to boycott "Ender's Game" because of the author's outspoken opposition to gay marriage. Short version: You godless heathens and filthy sodomites won, now stop oppressing me   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 587
    More: Dumbass, boycotts, marriages  
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6740 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Jul 2013 at 10:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-09 12:25:44 PM

secularsage: He has a tendency to create villains who are similar to the hero in terms of power or capability, but who are sociopaths with no regard for using their abilities to harm others.


He writes what he knows.
 
2013-07-09 12:27:28 PM
Most of my favorite artists, authors, actors, directors, musicians, brands, companies, etc. have personal politics I partially disagree with, but I'll consume their work. Alternately, there are some whose politics I do like, but I'm not a fan of their work.

Unless someone is materially supporting a cause I find especially egregious, I'm not going to boycott someone or something every time I hear something I don't like. I'd literally have to avoid everything I consume.
 
2013-07-09 12:27:34 PM

PizzaJedi81: CheetahOlivetti: Not yet. The Kindle version is on Amazon, but not available for pre-order yet.

Out of curiositym what did you think of Changes, Ghost Story and Cold Days, plot-wise?


Changes messed me up. I didn't like Susan that much, but still. Ghost Story was good because it was interesting to see Harry deal with a lack of powers, and I like Morty. And Cold Days was very interesting in that it told a lot about how the Nevernever works (and I like Demonreach), but I'm getting sick of Molly. I'm also sick of Marcone, but I've been tired of him since he first showed up.
 
2013-07-09 12:28:27 PM

kronicfeld: efforts to boycott "Ender's Game"

Some website called Geeks Out, which I'm reasonably sure I've never heard of, and which is apparently targeted exclusively at homosexual "geeks," posts about boycotting the movie, and Card feels the need to play victim and send a press release to Entertainment Weekly. Okay then.

BizarreMan: Seems to me that short version is "we disagreed, you guys won. let's move on."

"We disagreed" is an utterly disingenuous characterization of the "debate." He actively worked for decades to demonize homosexuals through his proselytizing and his National Organization for Marriage fought tirelessly to deny them equal rights. So, no, this isn't a situation where you "agree to disagree" and shake your opposition's hand after a good-faith debate. He wants to "move on" because paying any attention to his past now is going to reveal him to a much broader audience as a hateful bigot.


Every artist has some views that you're not going to support. Their commitment to supporting these views will vary, but they will undoubtedly exist.

Right now, I'm wondering how many Farkers are in love with the Foo Fighters, even though they had a link to an AIDS denial website on their website for quite a while.
 
2013-07-09 12:28:43 PM

robohobo: Puddleglum is one of my favorite characters. I annoy the ever-loving SHIAT out of my wife by doing what I imagine to be Puddleglum's voice, whenever we're discussing a less than ideal situation/meal/movie, etc.


Oh dear. I always picture Puddleglum as the Jar Jar Binks of Narnia.
 
2013-07-09 12:28:58 PM

robohobo: I think what he's saying is shouting 'boycott' is a waste of time. If you want to boycott, fine, do it. You needn't shout it to the sky. Cause one you do, there'll be throngs of people partaking of what you're boycotting, both people who oppose your views, and those who would partake just to be contrarian cause boycotters are loudmouts..Also boycotts are largely worthless and really only serve to make those doing the boycotting feel superior in some fashion.


Pretty much. There's always the dicks out there (I've been one a time or two) who are just going to say Fark you, I didn't care before but now I'm going to do it because it pisses you off.

Once someone says something loud enough and it gets publicized, it's going to piss people off. I generally think most people who want to boycott something should make the boycotting impromptu and without much spectacle, much like sit-ins in the 60's.
 
2013-07-09 12:29:03 PM
"How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.
 Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die."
 
2013-07-09 12:31:12 PM

CheetahOlivetti: robohobo: Puddleglum is one of my favorite characters. I annoy the ever-loving SHIAT out of my wife by doing what I imagine to be Puddleglum's voice, whenever we're discussing a less than ideal situation/meal/movie, etc.

Oh dear. I always picture Puddleglum as the Jar Jar Binks of Narnia.


I favor his cynicism. Always thought it funny that he was the light-hearted, by the seat of his pants Marshwiggle.
 
2013-07-09 12:31:19 PM

KellyX: Mike Chewbacca: KellyX: Meh, he didn't shove his anti-gay stuff in the book that I recall, did he?

No, he just openly and self-righteously fought against gay people in real life, which is much, much worse. I'm really torn on this because the actors are great. But I don't think I can bring myself to reward OSC.

And he and his lost the battle more or less, he even admits this will eventually become the law of the land... Least he isn't still trying to deny reality, and even if he was, who cares, they lost... move on.



He's still working to oppose civil rights for gays. So long as he continues to use his fame as a soapbox for his hate, I'll continue to boycott his works. His argument is literally, "yes, I'm a bigoted asshole who worked tirelessly to oppress other Americans and failed, but give me money anyway even though I still hate these people and will continue to oppress them to the best of my ability."
 
2013-07-09 12:31:23 PM

Magorn: TuteTibiImperes: Arkanaut: KellyX: Now if you really want to fark with the anti-gay people, they should turn The Forever War into a movie =)

Eh, that could piss off people on both sides.  Seems to me that one of the assumptions is that sexuality is a choice and dependent on social reinforcement.

I haven't read that particular book, but there is evidence that there are elements of sexuality that are a choice.  Most people aren't 100% straight or 100% gay, but somewhere in the spectrum between the absolutes.  The choice doesn't come into play as 'I think I'm going to be straight, or, I think I'd like to be gay' but rather from choosing to acknowledge and act on the same-sex desires that most people have to one degree or another.

It wasn't uncommon for men in ancient Grecian and Roman armies to take part in homosexual relationships with each other, and then go back home to their wives after the war.  Plenty of men who would identify as straight voluntarily take part in homosexual relations in prison (though there are certainly some whose involvement is involuntary).

When in a society that accepts it or in a situation where there are no other options people seem to be more willing to indulge in sexual activity that would on the surface seem to go against their dominant sexual identity.

Important to remeber that in greek and Roman societies Homosexuality was very frowned upon and usually very illegal.   However, farking another man was NOT considered homosexual behavoir so long as the person you were farking wasn't of equal station and rank as you, and you weren't the bottom in such an equal pairing, (OK if the man was higher rank/older/ your mentor, etc) AND even that was at least tolerated if you also gave your wife/the Republic a couple kids first


Interesting.  There's also plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting that women tend to experiment more with same sex liaisons while at college, again, where there's little social stigma against it.

While there are certain biological imperatives in who we find attractive, societal norms seem to be able to override them.  Look at the concept of the ideal woman or man and how it has changed over time as well - while attraction is in many ways a very personal thing, it's also influenced a great deal by the media, advertising, and societal expectations.  There would likely be quite a bit more sex going on, both heterosexual and homosexual, if certain traits, acts, or practices didn't have social stigmas associated with them.
 
2013-07-09 12:32:15 PM
I've been alternating between the twitter feed for OSC and here, and it's been a good entertaining morning while I'm home sick.  Now I'm going to go take some more pain drugs and try to get some sleep.  Have fun, y'all.

OSC Twitter feed:  https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%40orsonscottcard&src=typd
 
2013-07-09 12:32:27 PM
Does anyone know what kind of royalties he's getting from the movie?

More or less unrelated, but I tried re-reading Xenocide a few years ago.  Turns out that book suuuuuuuuuucks when you're not 14.  Ender's Game, The Speaker for the Dead, and Ender's Shadow are all good reads, though.  Also, if you don't think he's injected his personal beliefs into his books, you must have not read Xenocide and Children of the Mind.  Those get super religiousy, although I guess they're not directly related to Mormonism.

Also, am I crazy or was one of the characters in his Homecoming Saga gay and also one of the more positive characters?  IIRC, it was a man who hid his sexuality for fear of being murdered.
 
2013-07-09 12:33:45 PM
That's not at ALL what the statement says, subliar.

All right. Card gets to have opinions. You get to either share them or not share them. If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference. Now farking forget about the manxe's political stance, enjoy his stories, and go on with your lives. And dudes, don't be a dick.
 
2013-07-09 12:35:05 PM

Travos: "How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.
 Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die."


That is what I've never understood.  How is allowing people to marry somehow damaging the institution of marriage?  You'd think it woudl be encouraging it!
 
2013-07-09 12:37:04 PM

CheetahOlivetti: but I'm getting sick of Molly


I can see this, but given what happened in Cold Days, you're probably going to have to get used to her. Although, I can't wait for Michael to come back into the story because of it.

CheetahOlivetti: I'm also sick of Marcone, but I've been tired of him since he first showed up.


Really? Why's that? He's been one of my favorites since...shiat, I can't remember which book, but the one with the Shroud, where Harry follows him at the end.

/how's THAT for a spoiler free discussion?
 
2013-07-09 12:37:07 PM

Serious Black: Ah, yes, the age-old question of whether people who preach tolerance must tolerate intolerance. The answer, IMO, is no. If we tolerated intolerance, intolerance would win and would quickly extinguish tolerance. His views on gay people absolutely fit the extreme picture of intolerance. He called gays delusional and deviant, and he said he would "act to destroy" any government that tried to recognize marriages involving same-sex couples. These actions and verbal outbursts must be decried.


Exactly.  Even when I was mired in fundie-ism and trying my best to be a good Christian and hate homosexuality (it didn't take), I never could wrap my head around the "why can't you be tolerant of my views" crowd.  They just completely missed the point that tolerant means you accept others, or at minimum disagree without hate, and the one thing that does work on is ... hate.


robohobo: Puddleglum is one of my favorite characters. I annoy the ever-loving SHIAT out of my wife by doing what I imagine to be Puddleglum's voice, whenever we're discussing a less than ideal situation/meal/movie, etc.


www.nndb.com
 
2013-07-09 12:37:09 PM

Antimatter: Travos: "How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.
 Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die."

That is what I've never understood.  How is allowing people to marry somehow damaging the institution of marriage?  You'd think it woudl be encouraging it!


I agree.  If they were really so protective about the institution of marriage you'd think they'd be fighting against divorce or working to reduce the rate of marriages that end that way.
 
2013-07-09 12:38:33 PM
I'll just wait for the parody : Rear Ender's Game
 
2013-07-09 12:39:44 PM

Bunny Deville: If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference.


Except that your boycott wouldn't be based on irrational fear and hatred?
 
2013-07-09 12:44:34 PM

No Such Agency: Metallica? Assholes.


m.brobible.com

Concurs.
 
2013-07-09 12:44:39 PM

Egoy3k: Bunny Deville: If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference.

Except that your boycott wouldn't be based on irrational fear and hatred?


Agreed, but they may argue the same stance.
 
2013-07-09 12:44:53 PM

vpb: Some Bass Playing Guy: I enjoyed Ender's Game.

But Card can EABOD.

He probably does on a regular basis.  Heterosexual men are not normally that obsessed with what gays do.


People who aren't homophobes normally don't use suggestions that people are gay as a slur.
 
2013-07-09 12:44:53 PM

Egoy3k: Bunny Deville: If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference.

Except that your boycott wouldn't be based on irrational fear and hatred?


I'm sure the boycotts have gone quite a ways in getting the man to change his opinions. I mean, look at him... he's going to be collecting royalties off of a movie staring Harrison Ford.

If the LGBT community and their allies want to change guys like Card, they're going to have to approach them as normal human beings. Not screaming at a protest, not taking communion at anti-gay churches in drag, not naming bodily fluids after them.
 
2013-07-09 12:45:24 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: These guys are always such assholes until it stands to cost then money. Then you're the intolerant one for not looking past their intolerance and giving them money.


There are two kinds of boycotts. There is the "march around carrying signs" boycott and there's the "simply refuse to use the boycotted service" boycott. Someone mentioned Chik-Fil-A earlier and I'm curious to know what their profit margin is like these days. People making additional purchases to show their solidarity can only last so long, while it is simple and easy to stop frequenting a business or simply never to start. I've never been in a Chik-Fil-A and, while I wouldn't skip a meal if there were nowhere else to eat, given the choice between Chik-Fil-A and almost anyplace else, I'll take anyplace else. Similarly, I'll never buy another Card novel again, or pay to see this movie (although I might watch it someday on TV, which is more than I'll say for any Mel Gibson movie). Card can hardly complain when conservatives are boycotting businesses that withdrew their advertising from the Limbaugh show, although I wonder how they're doing on the whole "boycott Microsoft" thing. In any case the market has spoken and pointing out to conservatives how hypocritical their attitudes are on this kind of issue is a notably useless activity.
 
2013-07-09 12:46:12 PM

Bunny Deville: That's not at ALL what the statement says, subliar.

All right. Card gets to have opinions. You get to either share them or not share them. If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference. Now farking forget about the manxe's political stance, enjoy his stories, and go on with your lives. And dudes, don't be a dick.


Not exactly.  If a bunch of fundamentalists wanted to boycott an author because he was gay AND stated repeatedly in public that all heterosexual sex should be made illegal and prosecuted to the fullest extent to fhte law, AND that heterosexuals SHOULD be made to feel like second-class citizens because of society's moral disapproval of those actions, AND that author sate on the board of a well-funded poltical action committe that was devoted to making those views the law of the land?   Then you'd be in an equivalent situation, and not only would a boycott be justified, but I'd join them more than likely
 
2013-07-09 12:46:54 PM

Marine1: Egoy3k: Bunny Deville: If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference.

Except that your boycott wouldn't be based on irrational fear and hatred?

I'm sure the boycotts have gone quite a ways in getting the man to change his opinions. I mean, look at him... he's going to be collecting royalties off of a movie staring Harrison Ford.

If the LGBT community and their allies want to change guys like Card, they're going to have to approach them as normal human beings. Not screaming at a protest, not taking communion at anti-gay churches in drag, not naming bodily fluids after them.


Or we could refuse to give him our money, and encourage others not to give him money ether.  Nothing wrong with that.
 
2013-07-09 12:46:57 PM
If we start boycotting movies because of the political leanings of the actors writers directors etc.... no movie will ever make a profit because half of the people will be boycotting every single movie.

I love Enders game, Enders shadow, the prequels are pretty good so far as is the pathfinder series.

I will be there opening night at the very first showing.
 
2013-07-09 12:47:20 PM

bukijin: So I have to first politically vet every author, filmmaker, actor, artist and entertainer before I know if I can enjoy their art ??


Seriously.  A lot of great artists were real douchebags.  It's a bummer finding that out, but I'm not going to pretend their work suddenly sucks as a result.
 
2013-07-09 12:47:28 PM
Ha anyone mentioned all the great literature we'd have to throw out based on the author's racism/sexism/homophobia?
 
2013-07-09 12:48:23 PM

bukijin: I loved the book when I was a kid. Didn't try and re-read it since then.

So I have to first politically vet every author, filmmaker, actor, artist and entertainer before I know if I can enjoy their art ??


That's what some here will have you believe.  Honestly, I have a "Is he a child rapist" rule.  If he's a child rapist, I won't see his work.  Anything less than that?  Honestly, if you excluded the work of every asshole, bigot, criminal, or person with whom you disagree politically, then you're going to have precious little music, books, TV, or movies.
 
2013-07-09 12:48:55 PM

Antimatter: Marine1: Egoy3k: Bunny Deville: If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference.

Except that your boycott wouldn't be based on irrational fear and hatred?

I'm sure the boycotts have gone quite a ways in getting the man to change his opinions. I mean, look at him... he's going to be collecting royalties off of a movie staring Harrison Ford.

If the LGBT community and their allies want to change guys like Card, they're going to have to approach them as normal human beings. Not screaming at a protest, not taking communion at anti-gay churches in drag, not naming bodily fluids after them.

Or we could refuse to give him our money, and encourage others not to give him money ether.  Nothing wrong with that.


Then you're coming across as a threat to him.

Get the most milquetoast gay dude we can find to move in next door to him or something. If he can't see past the man's homosexuality, then fine. We let him die a bigot.
 
2013-07-09 12:52:05 PM

Marine1: If the LGBT community and their allies want to change guys like Card, they're going to have to approach them as normal human beings. Not screaming at a protest, not taking communion at anti-gay churches in drag, not naming bodily fluids after them.


The culture is changing.  In 20 years Card will be as much of an anachronism as someone arguing for school segregation.  The LGBT community is appealing to youth and the middle and letting societal pressure do the rest.  They don't really need to change guys like Card, just make sure that the next generation has fewer of him.
 
2013-07-09 12:54:45 PM

Marine1: Get the most milquetoast gay dude we can find to move in next door to him or something.


I love the whole "ignore the problem and hope it fixes itself" solution to civil rights issues.

A high percentage of the population in the South is black.  Clearly, races living together has completely eliminated racism for everyone in that part of the country.

God forbid we use the free hand of the market to support (or not) a person or business.

He'll die a bigot or he won't, but he'll do it without my $8.
 
2013-07-09 12:55:40 PM

you have pee hands: Marine1: If the LGBT community and their allies want to change guys like Card, they're going to have to approach them as normal human beings. Not screaming at a protest, not taking communion at anti-gay churches in drag, not naming bodily fluids after them.

The culture is changing.  In 20 years Card will be as much of an anachronism as someone arguing for school segregation.  The LGBT community is appealing to youth and the middle and letting societal pressure do the rest.  They don't really need to change guys like Card, just make sure that the next generation has fewer of him.


I am one of those youths. 22 years old. I say it's worth getting him to open up his mind, but this isn't going to work.

I'd argue he's already an anachronism, actually...
 
2013-07-09 01:00:26 PM

PizzaJedi81: CheetahOlivetti: but I'm getting sick of Molly

I can see this, but given what happened in Cold Days, you're probably going to have to get used to her. Although, I can't wait for Michael to come back into the story because of it.

CheetahOlivetti: I'm also sick of Marcone, but I've been tired of him since he first showed up.

Really? Why's that? He's been one of my favorites since...shiat, I can't remember which book, but the one with the Shroud, where Harry follows him at the end.

/how's THAT for a spoiler free discussion?


I guess it's because he's so, uh, mortal. :) His only real power is mob management skills. But once Butcher reveals his back story, he is a bit more interesting. I suppose Murphy has the same limitations, but there is something about her living in her grandma's house that makes her appealing, plus I picture her looking like me (although I'm not nearly the badass that she is).
 
2013-07-09 01:00:44 PM

clambam: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: These guys are always such assholes until it stands to cost then money. Then you're the intolerant one for not looking past their intolerance and giving them money.

There are two kinds of boycotts. There is the "march around carrying signs" boycott and there's the "simply refuse to use the boycotted service" boycott. Someone mentioned Chik-Fil-A earlier and I'm curious to know what their profit margin is like these days. People making additional purchases to show their solidarity can only last so long, while it is simple and easy to stop frequenting a business or simply never to start. I've never been in a Chik-Fil-A and, while I wouldn't skip a meal if there were nowhere else to eat, given the choice between Chik-Fil-A and almost anyplace else, I'll take anyplace else. Similarly, I'll never buy another Card novel again, or pay to see this movie (although I might watch it someday on TV, which is more than I'll say for any Mel Gibson movie). Card can hardly complain when conservatives are boycotting businesses that withdrew their advertising from the Limbaugh show, although I wonder how they're doing on the whole "boycott Microsoft" thing. In any case the market has spoken and pointing out to conservatives how hypocritical their attitudes are on this kind of issue is a notably useless activity.


news.bbcimg.co.uk

This is Alan Turing. He is widely known as one of the fathers of the reprogrammable computer. He broke the Enigma cipher that allowed the Allies to hack into the Nazis' communcations and helped win World War II. He was chemically castrated because he was gay, and he later committed suicide, likely because of extreme intimidation. If you want to boycott anything even remotely pro-gay, you must sever yourself from modern society and join a neo-Nazi group. Period.
 
2013-07-09 01:00:58 PM

enderthexenocide: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: I don't particularly care whether he's a disgusting bigot--that's his business, not mine.
But I'll never forgive him for penning a sequel to Ender's Game. That was a standalone story if there ever was one.

i'll agree that ender's game did not need a sequel, but speaker for the dead is twice as good as ender's game, so i'm glad he wrote it.  speaker is one of the best sci-fi books i've ever read.

Gunny Highway:  I liked Speaker of the Dead more than Ender's Game.

and here i was wondering if i was the only one.


Speaker is easily his best book, and is easily among of my favorites and the best books I've read.  Ender is a great YA book, but not a great novel
 
2013-07-09 01:01:35 PM
I'm sure someone has said something similar already, but to me this is like saying I shouldn't boycott a store owner who's in the KKK because he lost the civil rights battle.

I'd fight for you right to believe your crazy bigoted belief, just as I will fight you if you try to impose those beliefs on others, but at any rate I am certainly not interested in giving you my business.

For the record, I loved Ender's Game (the other books, not so much) but even so I can't open the book any more since I found out about OSC personal beliefs.  It makes me feel ... dirty.  I am conflicted about seeing the movie.
 
2013-07-09 01:02:52 PM

Marine1: Antimatter: Marine1: Egoy3k: Bunny Deville: If you boycott his work because of his opinions, you are exactly the same as those who would boycott a work because the author was gay. Exactly the same. No difference.

Except that your boycott wouldn't be based on irrational fear and hatred?

I'm sure the boycotts have gone quite a ways in getting the man to change his opinions. I mean, look at him... he's going to be collecting royalties off of a movie staring Harrison Ford.

If the LGBT community and their allies want to change guys like Card, they're going to have to approach them as normal human beings. Not screaming at a protest, not taking communion at anti-gay churches in drag, not naming bodily fluids after them.

Or we could refuse to give him our money, and encourage others not to give him money ether.  Nothing wrong with that.

Then you're coming across as a threat to him.

Get the most milquetoast gay dude we can find to move in next door to him or something. If he can't see past the man's homosexuality, then fine. We let him die a bigot.


You can't believe how little a shiat I give that he thinks a boycott against him is threatening.  We are under no responsibility to give the man money, and we are free to encourage others not to give him money.

Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.  Hitting him the wallet, however, will hurt him, and that could change things in the end.
 
2013-07-09 01:04:50 PM
You mean the juvenile masturbatory power-trip fascism that is so much (but not all!) of science fiction is written by juvenile  masturbating, power-tripping fascists?

I am stunned.
 
2013-07-09 01:06:16 PM

RagnarDanesk: If we start boycotting movies because of the political leanings of the actors writers directors etc.... no movie will ever make a profit because half of the people will be boycotting every single movie.


HA HA!  Movies don't make money.  They won't until the pirates and streamers are put out of business.  Then they'll make mountains of money.

Just ask the MPAA.
 
2013-07-09 01:06:18 PM

CheetahOlivetti: His only real power is mob management skills.


Well...that and managing to wrangle the only non-supernatural entity to sign the Unseelie Accords. And managing to survive various supernatural attacks in and arund Chicago.

/what color would you like your Farkie?
 
2013-07-09 01:07:42 PM

Serious Black: clambam: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: These guys are always such assholes until it stands to cost then money. Then you're the intolerant one for not looking past their intolerance and giving them money.

There are two kinds of boycotts. There is the "march around carrying signs" boycott and there's the "simply refuse to use the boycotted service" boycott. Someone mentioned Chik-Fil-A earlier and I'm curious to know what their profit margin is like these days. People making additional purchases to show their solidarity can only last so long, while it is simple and easy to stop frequenting a business or simply never to start. I've never been in a Chik-Fil-A and, while I wouldn't skip a meal if there were nowhere else to eat, given the choice between Chik-Fil-A and almost anyplace else, I'll take anyplace else. Similarly, I'll never buy another Card novel again, or pay to see this movie (although I might watch it someday on TV, which is more than I'll say for any Mel Gibson movie). Card can hardly complain when conservatives are boycotting businesses that withdrew their advertising from the Limbaugh show, although I wonder how they're doing on the whole "boycott Microsoft" thing. In any case the market has spoken and pointing out to conservatives how hypocritical their attitudes are on this kind of issue is a notably useless activity.

[news.bbcimg.co.uk image 304x270]

This is Alan Turing. He is widely known as one of the fathers of the reprogrammable computer. He broke the Enigma cipher that allowed the Allies to hack into the Nazis' communcations and helped win World War II. He was chemically castrated because he was gay, and he later committed suicide, likely because of extreme intimidation. If you want to boycott anything even remotely pro-gay, you must sever yourself from modern society and join a neo-Nazi group. Period.


Wow.  I have some reading to do.
 
2013-07-09 01:08:15 PM
Everytime Orson Scott Card opens his homophobic mouth, all I can think is: "Dude, you wrote a book called 'Songmaster'.  You need to STFU."
 
2013-07-09 01:11:37 PM
I didn't know anything about him beyond his shiatty books until now. At first I was thinking we should give him a pass because he's an old man, but he's only 61. Still, the quote from the Mormon Times article suggests severe dementia of some sort: "Marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down."


I've always hated his writing, so I wasn't planning to see the movie anyway.
 
2013-07-09 01:11:52 PM
I don't care if Orson Scott Card is a complete asshole douchebag, which by many accounts, he actually is. I don't particularly care how stringently and vigorously he has advocated against homosexuality and gay marriage.

He is entitled to be opposed to a rampant societal embracing of homosexuality. As a Mormon, that's what he believes, and frankly that is what every major religion believes. He is entitled to take whatever political stance he chooses.

And he is certainly also entitled to be criticized for opinions he broadcasts into the public arena, and we are all entitled to voice our opinions.

But I really dislike this notion that "failure to embrace homosexuality" makes you a bigot, or a homophobe, or a bad person. OSC may, in fact, be a bad person, but outside of a zealous attack on homosexuality, I haven't heard much, and prior to that, I believe he was well regarded and generally well liked.

Whether it is Chik-Fil-A, Hobby Lobby, or Ender's Game, I think we are going down the wrong path with all of this "They don't think the way we think, so they are bad people and must be punished!" mindset. Boycotts are fine and all, but not when they are predicated on a personal attack against someone's deeply held convictions or political views.

It's a free country. You aren't required to "think the right way" about anything, much less homosexuality. We may not agree, but our fellow Americans are perfectly entitled to disapprove of homosexuality. It's a valid position, whether we agree or not, and it doesn't automatically mean that they are hate-mongers just because they don't see things our way.

And we should stop trying to shut down dissenting opinions.
 
2013-07-09 01:11:58 PM
OSC is a classic example of a successful creative who peaked early.

Happens to a bunch of them.  Other examples include George Lucas, Frank Miller, M. Night Shyamalan, and more.  They have a brief but intense period where they turn out pure gold but then slowly but surely lose whatever mojo they had and they spend the rest of their lives in a futile attempt to recapture it.

Not all of them turn crazy.  For example Lucas, while from most counts is still a little loopy, still was very constructive and went on to foster a lot of great technical innovations through his companies after his peak

But a lot of them do go a little nutty.  They get delusional and even megalomaniacal, refusing to believe their golden creative time is over.

Card is that all over.  Starting from about the 1990, you can see a very serious and steady decline in the quality of his novels and stories.  You read his current stuff, and you have a hard time believing this was the same guy who wrote Ender's Game.  It also tends to make them lash out and seek scapegoats, emotional and otherwise, to blame their loss on.  With OSC this was apparently the gay community.  Its sad in many ways.
 
2013-07-09 01:12:46 PM

Marine1: I'd argue he's already an anachronism a social atavism, actually...


This, unfortunately. It's going to take some time for such atavisms to die out - it's been well over a century since slavery was abolished in the United States, but we've still fools waving Confederate flags, burning crosses, and hanging up nooses on election day. He's just another fool.
 
2013-07-09 01:16:33 PM

PizzaJedi81: CheetahOlivetti: His only real power is mob management skills.

Well...that and managing to wrangle the only non-supernatural entity to sign the Unseelie Accords. And managing to survive various supernatural attacks in and arund Chicago.

/what color would you like your Farkie?


Jim Butcher is a close friend of  a relative of mine.  thus, I may be able to find out where he lives.  If he ever goes Full George Martin and kills off certain characters, I may consider exercising that ability just so I can punch him in the nose.
 
2013-07-09 01:16:38 PM

PizzaJedi81: CheetahOlivetti: His only real power is mob management skills.

Well...that and managing to wrangle the only non-supernatural entity to sign the Unseelie Accords. And managing to survive various supernatural attacks in and arund Chicago.

/what color would you like your Farkie?


OK, you have a good point. :)  I'm partial to orange as long as it doesn't flag me as a nutter.
 
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