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(The Atlantic Wire)   Orson Scott Card adresses efforts to boycott "Ender's Game" because of the author's outspoken opposition to gay marriage. Short version: You godless heathens and filthy sodomites won, now stop oppressing me   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 587
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6738 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Jul 2013 at 10:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-09 09:40:27 AM
Seems to me that short version is "we disagreed, you guys won.  let's move on."

Unlike some of the gay marriage opponents who are still up their eyeballs in a fight they've already lost.
 
2013-07-09 09:42:34 AM
This is mostly why I won't see Ender's Game and why I stopped reading his books after I found out what type of person he was. Even if he weren't a homophobe, Orson Scott Card is a raging asshole. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed plenty of books and movies written by raging assholes, but his books are also incredibly overrated. Meh.
 
2013-07-09 09:46:46 AM

bdub77: but his books are also incredibly overrated.


The only one I've read is Ender's Game, and it is completely mundane.  It topped several Top X Sci-Fi books lists, so I read it and was completely underwhelmed.
 
2013-07-09 09:49:02 AM
"I love Chik-Fil-A.  I'm not ashamed of my love for chicken!!!"
 
2013-07-09 09:50:10 AM
Orson Scott Card is not an "outspoken oppo[nent] to gay marriage", he is an outspoken opponent of gay people.
 
2013-07-09 09:51:33 AM
efforts to boycott "Ender's Game"

Some website called Geeks Out, which I'm reasonably sure I've never heard of, and which is apparently targeted exclusively at homosexual "geeks," posts about boycotting the movie, and Card feels the need to play victim and send a press release to Entertainment Weekly. Okay then.

BizarreMan: Seems to me that short version is "we disagreed, you guys won. let's move on."


"We disagreed" is an utterly disingenuous characterization of the "debate." He actively worked for decades to demonize homosexuals through his proselytizing and his National Organization for Marriage fought tirelessly to deny them equal rights. So, no, this isn't a situation where you "agree to disagree" and shake your opposition's hand after a good-faith debate. He wants to "move on" because paying any attention to his past now is going to reveal him to a much broader audience as a hateful bigot.
 
2013-07-09 09:53:02 AM
I enjoyed Ender's Game.

But Card can EABOD.
 
2013-07-09 09:54:59 AM

kronicfeld: "We disagreed" is an utterly disingenuous characterization of the "debate."


As is:

"Ender's Game is set more than a century in the future and has nothing to do with political issues that did not exist when the book was written in 1984. "

That's like saying there was no racism during the slavery era.

I may see it.  I'm trying to force my way through the book now.  Not impressed thus far.  If anything I get an icky feeling with his obsession over militarized little boys.  But whatevs.  I'll reserve judgement until I've finished it.
 
2013-07-09 10:00:51 AM
Meh. Let the gay community marry, fight, lie, cheat, divorce and generally treat each other like shiat the way the rest of the world works. Gay ain't special. This is a non-issue.
 
2013-07-09 10:05:54 AM
"Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute."

What exactly kind of a tolerance is he looking for here? That statement/threat doesn't even make any sense.
 
2013-07-09 10:11:08 AM

hinten: What exactly kind of a tolerance is he looking for here? That statement/threat doesn't even make any sense.


By "tolerance," he means "never bring up our decades of past bigotry and our ongoing bigotry."
 
2013-07-09 10:20:23 AM
I'm far more disturbed by the moral system his works of fiction appear to support (even revel in) than by his opinions of homosexuality, unpleasant and retrograde as they may be.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-09 10:22:51 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: I enjoyed Ender's Game.

But Card can EABOD.


He probably does on a regular basis.  Heterosexual men are not normally that obsessed with what gays do.
 
2013-07-09 10:24:42 AM
I liked Pastwatch. It was entertaining, and it was recommended by someone I was dating at the time. Who happened to be lesbian. And a teacher at a Catholic school.

/have a feeling she had issues
//managed to not stick dildo in crazy. Yay!
///will not buy any other books by him though
 
2013-07-09 10:25:57 AM
I don't particularly care whether he's a disgusting bigot--that's his business, not mine.

But I'll never forgive him for penning a sequel to Ender's Game. That was a standalone story if there ever was one.
 
2013-07-09 10:26:17 AM

hinten: "Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute."

What exactly kind of a tolerance is he looking for here? That statement/threat doesn't even make any sense.


Wouldn't not going to see his movie because you disagree with his views be a perfect example of the free market?  Why do you hate the free market, Mr Card?
 
2013-07-09 10:27:33 AM
How can you have a name like Orson Scott Card and NOT be gay?

It's not possible.
 
2013-07-09 10:31:29 AM

bdub77: but his books are also incredibly overrated.


I enjoyed the first three Alvin Maker books. Somewhere along the way, though, it turned from a nice alternate history fantasy series into...don't even know what.
 
2013-07-09 10:32:18 AM

Diogenes: kronicfeld: "We disagreed" is an utterly disingenuous characterization of the "debate."

As is:

"Ender's Game is set more than a century in the future and has nothing to do with political issues that did not exist when the book was written in 1984. "

That's like saying there was no racism during the slavery era.

I may see it.  I'm trying to force my way through the book now.  Not impressed thus far.  If anything I get an icky feeling with his obsession over militarized little boys.  But whatevs.  I'll reserve judgement until I've finished it.


I read Ender's game when it was a novella, and never really read the novel or its sequels, but when I had XM radio and a long commute a few years back I listened to parts of the two sequels while driving, and I came away with a very strong feeling that there was something very wrong wtih OSC (and that was back when I was even unaware of his LDS beliefs)  there is something about how he writes children, how he insists on   making them minature adults to the point where barely adolescent kids are nonetheless great military leader or poltical thinkers that just REALLY gives off a pedophile vibe to me, as many pedos justify thier actions by claiming their victims were "very mature for thier age"
 
2013-07-09 10:32:25 AM

vpb: Some Bass Playing Guy: I enjoyed Ender's Game.

But Card can EABOD.

He probably does on a regular basis.  Heterosexual men are not normally that obsessed with what gays do.


I'm very pro gay marriage. Wrote some letters, stood at a rally (I'm in DC so it's easy to get involved) but the whole 'if you don't like gay people you must secretly be gay' argument is ridiculous. Have their been cases of closeted homophobes, certainly. Are the majority of homophobes gay, not likely.

Move on with your argument to something more meaningful and relevant.
 
2013-07-09 10:32:47 AM
Sir, you have made yourself a public face for bigotry and hate.  It is a little late and perhaps a bit disingenuous to ask for tolerance from people that oppose you.  Spend a decade working for tolerance and atoning for your past sins.  Then we'll talk.
 
2013-07-09 10:33:10 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: I enjoyed Ender's Game.

But Card can EABOD.


This.

I read the book before I knew anything about his views. Hell, back then I wasn't sure of my own opinions on homosexuality and gay-rights.
 
2013-07-09 10:35:17 AM
"How dare you be intolerant of my intolerance! WAH!"

Here's a deal, Orson: you stop being a homophobic asshole, and then I'll go see your movie.

You can either continue to be a chairman for NOM and write horrible anti-gay crap like your remake of Hamlet*, or you can have gay people willingly give you money. You can't have both, Mr. Card.

*He actually had the balls to re-write one of the greatest works of literary fiction, and change it so that Hamlet's dad was a pedophile who made most of the male cast gay by molesting them (because that's how OSC thinks it works) and tries to trick Hamlet into killing his uncle so he goes to Hell and daddy dearest can molest his son for eternity. Billy S. is spinning in his grave so hard, he drilled a tunnel to the Earth's core.
 
2013-07-09 10:35:43 AM
It's been a while since I've read Ender's Game, but doesn't the book contain multiple scenes involving naked boys wrestling around with each other and whatnot?
 
2013-07-09 10:36:22 AM
The man is entitled to his opinions, however repulsive they may be. Unless he's doing something like donating proceeds of the film, or dedicating it to, a group like the FRC, NOM, or AFA, there's no point to berating him for having a belief.  Birth of a Nation for gays, this is certainly not.
 
2013-07-09 10:36:32 AM
 Orson Scott Card, after all, still wrote a version of Hamlet in which the eponymous character's father was a gay, as a way of explaining why he was a terrible king (Card also made Hamlet's father into a child molester).

Sounds like he's from the "gay = child molester" school of thought (Hi Dad!)
 
2013-07-09 10:37:29 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Sir, you have made yourself a public face for bigotry and hate.  It is a little late and perhaps a bit disingenuous to ask for tolerance from people that oppose you.  Spend a decade working for tolerance and atoning for your past sins.  Then we'll talk.



www.corbisimages.com
THIS!
 
2013-07-09 10:38:25 AM

TuteTibiImperes: It's been a while since I've read Ender's Game, but doesn't the book contain multiple scenes involving naked boys wrestling around with each other and whatnot?


Yep! I got a pedo vibe from it. Pedos hate gays idk why.
 
2013-07-09 10:41:06 AM
These guys are always such assholes until it stands to cost then money. Then you're the intolerant one for not looking past their intolerance and giving them money.
 
2013-07-09 10:41:28 AM

Diogenes: I may see it. I'm trying to force my way through the book now. Not impressed thus far. If anything I get an icky feeling with his obsession over militarized little boys. But whatevs. I'll reserve judgement until I've finished it.


How old are you?  Because if you're older than about 18 or 20, the book is likely have very little impact on you. It's a great read when you're a teenager, but falls flat once you get close to, or reach, adulthood.

kronicfeld: "We disagreed" is an utterly disingenuous characterization of the "debate." He actively worked for decades to demonize homosexuals through his proselytizing and his National Organization for Marriage fought tirelessly to deny them equal rights. So, no, this isn't a situation where you "agree to disagree" and shake your opposition's hand after a good-faith debate. He wants to "move on" because paying any attention to his past now is going to reveal him to a much broader audience as a hateful bigot.


This.  The ongoing attitude of these backwards farksticks is amazing - "It's intolerant for you to call me out for being intolerant!  Let's just agree that you'll keep fighting for equal rights, while I keep fighting against it.  See, we're ethically equal, we just disagree!"
 
2013-07-09 10:41:43 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: bdub77: but his books are also incredibly overrated.

The only one I've read is Ender's Game, and it is completely mundane.  It topped several Top X Sci-Fi books lists, so I read it and was completely underwhelmed.


Ender's Game is written about and for smart kids. If you read it when you were an overachieving junior high student a lot of it resonates. All of the people I know who really like it were nerds who read it around that time in their life. If you pick it up when you're older it just doesn't work.
 
2013-07-09 10:41:55 AM
This from the man who wrote "Songmaster"? That was a seriously creepy book. There's something off about a man who writes about the degradation of children so much. And don't get me started on "Lost Boys." Ugh, he's a repulsive human being who writes repulsive books. No thanks. I like "Ender's Game" but after the two aforementioned books, that was it. No more.
 
2013-07-09 10:42:59 AM
So, "I'm still a homophobic jackass but you guys won so don't be mean to me?"  Sure.
 
2013-07-09 10:43:44 AM
Is this like not reading/watching Game of Thrones because you don't like fat people who write really slowly?

If you isolate yourself from people you don't agree with everything on you will end up being a very dumb person.
 
2013-07-09 10:43:53 AM
The tolerance he seeks is green in color.
 
2013-07-09 10:44:05 AM

INeedAName: vpb: Some Bass Playing Guy: I enjoyed Ender's Game.

But Card can EABOD.

He probably does on a regular basis.  Heterosexual men are not normally that obsessed with what gays do.

I'm very pro gay marriage. Wrote some letters, stood at a rally (I'm in DC so it's easy to get involved) but the whole 'if you don't like gay people you must secretly be gay' argument is ridiculous. Have their been cases of closeted homophobes, certainly. Are the majority of homophobes gay, not likely.

Move on with your argument to something more meaningful and relevant.


He's referring to the people who obsess over the details of gay sex.  It reflects a mentality that very likely incorporates (unhealthily) homosexual urges.  Listen for the religious folks who describe homosexuality as a "temptation".
 
2013-07-09 10:44:33 AM

TuteTibiImperes: It's been a while since I've read Ender's Game, but doesn't the book contain multiple scenes involving naked boys wrestling around with each other and whatnot?


This is broadening it a bit but why do sci fi writers all seem to love putting terrible sex scenes in their books?  Can't at least one of them get an editor that decides that the graphic descriptions of sex between future hermaphrodites or future 14 year olds or aliens or whatever doesn't really tell us anything important about the characters or advance the narrative and give those scenes the axe?
 
2013-07-09 10:46:20 AM
I really enjoyed Ender's Game and Speaker of the Dead.  I was pretty bummed to hear this guy was such a dick.
 
2013-07-09 10:47:57 AM

you have pee hands: TuteTibiImperes: It's been a while since I've read Ender's Game, but doesn't the book contain multiple scenes involving naked boys wrestling around with each other and whatnot?

This is broadening it a bit but why do sci fi writers all seem to love putting terrible sex scenes in their books?  Can't at least one of them get an editor that decides that the graphic descriptions of sex between future hermaphrodites or future 14 year olds or aliens or whatever doesn't really tell us anything important about the characters or advance the narrative and give those scenes the axe?


Heretics of Dune FTL....
 
2013-07-09 10:47:59 AM

odinsposse: Three Crooked Squirrels: bdub77: but his books are also incredibly overrated.

The only one I've read is Ender's Game, and it is completely mundane.  It topped several Top X Sci-Fi books lists, so I read it and was completely underwhelmed.

Ender's Game is written about and for smart kids. If you read it when you were an overachieving junior high student a lot of it resonates. All of the people I know who really like it were nerds who read it around that time in their life. If you pick it up when you're older it just doesn't work.


Even then I disagree.  I was reading at a college sophmore level when I was in 4th grade according to the tests, and I read Enders (the original short story) right about then or a year or two later. And frankly my real take-away was "So this is what the author thinks being me is like (Yes I was a wildly arrogant shiat too)...way to miss it by a mile..."
 
2013-07-09 10:48:04 AM

bdub77: This is mostly why I won't see Ender's Game and why I stopped reading his books after I found out what type of person he was. Even if he weren't a homophobe, Orson Scott Card is a raging asshole. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed plenty of books and movies written by raging assholes, but his books are also incredibly overrated. Meh.


The difference is, he doesn't inject his bigotry or his raving assholism into his books for the most part.  That's why I have no problem reading what he writes.

He may have distressing personal views, but at least he isn't trying to use his books as a medium to push those views.  Go look at someone like John Norman or L. Ron Hubbard.
 
2013-07-09 10:48:32 AM
I've been reading all this hubbub regarding boycotting the movie because the guy's a bigot.. and I get that. But aren't you also forcibly screwing over a bunch of other people who don't share the same views and are just trying to make a good/decent/okay movie?

He likely already got paid a heavy sum for selling the rights, so there's not much that can be done. Wouldn't it be better to boycott the selling of the books?

/just a thought
 
2013-07-09 10:48:50 AM

FuryOfFirestorm: "How dare you be intolerant of my intolerance! WAH!"

Here's a deal, Orson: you stop being a homophobic asshole, and then I'll go see your movie.

You can either continue to be a chairman for NOM and write horrible anti-gay crap like your remake of Hamlet*, or you can have gay people willingly give you money. You can't have both, Mr. Card.

*He actually had the balls to re-write one of the greatest works of literary fiction, and change it so that Hamlet's dad was a pedophile who made most of the male cast gay by molesting them (because that's how OSC thinks it works) and tries to trick Hamlet into killing his uncle so he goes to Hell and daddy dearest can molest his son for eternity. Billy S. is spinning in his grave so hard, he drilled a tunnel to the Earth's core.



Wait, wut? Where did this fresh hell of a novel come from?
 
2013-07-09 10:49:37 AM
I loved the book when I was a kid. Didn't try and re-read it since then.

So I have to first politically vet every author, filmmaker, actor, artist and entertainer before I know if I can enjoy their art ??
 
2013-07-09 10:49:49 AM
Also, let's review a summary of his Wikipedia page:

Against gay marriage, sits on the board of the "National Organization for Marriage", strong LDS faith, supported McCain for president despite being a registered Democrat, supported Newt Gingrich for president, global warming denier, intelligent design supporter.

His only redeeming factor seems to be that he wrote one really good young adult sci-fi book.
 
2013-07-09 10:49:50 AM

you have pee hands: TuteTibiImperes: It's been a while since I've read Ender's Game, but doesn't the book contain multiple scenes involving naked boys wrestling around with each other and whatnot?

This is broadening it a bit but why do sci fi writers all seem to love putting terrible sex scenes in their books?  Can't at least one of them get an editor that decides that the graphic descriptions of sex between future hermaphrodites or future 14 year olds or aliens or whatever doesn't really tell us anything important about the characters or advance the narrative and give those scenes the axe?


This.  The "sex battle" in Heretics of Dune was a little over the top.  I lost respect for Herbert with that one.
 
2013-07-09 10:50:42 AM

you have pee hands: TuteTibiImperes: It's been a while since I've read Ender's Game, but doesn't the book contain multiple scenes involving naked boys wrestling around with each other and whatnot?

This is broadening it a bit but why do sci fi writers all seem to love putting terrible sex scenes in their books?  Can't at least one of them get an editor that decides that the graphic descriptions of sex between future hermaphrodites or future 14 year olds or aliens or whatever doesn't really tell us anything important about the characters or advance the narrative and give those scenes the axe?


In some ways the best sci-fi novels are those that are about people and society, and that use the sci-fi/futuristic/alternate-history setting to make a point about how our morality/social mores change based on external stimuli or a different world - they make you think 'if this was going on, this is how we might react, and what does that say about how we react to certain issues today?'.  Sex is intrinsic to human nature, so it makes sense that there could be sex scenes to study how those desires and handled in the new world.

Now, that doesn't mean that all of them are handled well or for that reason, there are plenty that are likely there just to scratch a prurient itch the author had or to attract lonely horny nerds to the book.
 
2013-07-09 10:50:49 AM
Ender's Game is set more than a century in the future and has nothing to do with political issues that did not exist when the book was written in 1984.  With the recent Supreme Court ruling, the gay marriage issue becomes moot.  The Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution will, sooner or later, give legal force in every state to any marriage contract recognized by any other state. Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute.

Orson Scott Card


I've disliked this guy ever since I saw him and his ego at a book signing years ago.  I wonder what his statement would have been if the Supreme Ct. had ruled the other way.  "We won.  We're right.  Get over it."?
 
2013-07-09 10:51:36 AM

bukijin: I loved the book when I was a kid. Didn't try and re-read it since then.

So I have to first politically vet every author, filmmaker, actor, artist and entertainer before I know if I can enjoy their art ??


Art is a reflection of its creator.  The art is informed and shaped by the views, opinions, and thoughts of the artist.  Yes, you should know something about an artist before patronizing their work.
 
2013-07-09 10:53:14 AM
What'll we have to wait -- 3 months -- for Orson Scott Card to become a right wing darling by playing the victim of the gay agenda to any asshat with a microphone?
 
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