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(Slashdot)   "Deus Ex" creator Warren Spector talks about starting his own (free) video-game academy, and about everything that's currently wrong in the gaming industry   (slashdot.org) divider line 89
    More: Interesting, Warren Spector, University of Coimbra, stipends, Richard Garriott, gray hair, UC Santa Cruz, epic mickey, Blizzard Entertainment  
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2471 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Jul 2013 at 11:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-09 09:37:37 AM  
EA
DRM
Non-upgradable consoles.
 
2013-07-09 10:16:08 AM  
cdn.gpforums.co.nz

Mass reinstalls for all!
 
2013-07-09 11:17:30 AM  
Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.
 
2013-07-09 11:26:05 AM  
I wish I was on enough ADHD meds to focus on gaming.
 
2013-07-09 11:28:17 AM  
Deus EX has great replay value because it's fairly open but not in the cartoonie GTA sandbox way. You can play stealth or go cowboy and get different reactions. Games with good stories will have better replay value then GENERIC FPS 5! any day of the week. Outside of good multiplayer if you want a game to be a keeper the single player needs to have a story that pulls the player in, Deus Ex is one of the games that rises above the level of pulp media into something greater.

TL;DR
COD:Video Games::Danielle Steele:Literature
 
2013-07-09 11:29:39 AM  

DanZero: [cdn.gpforums.co.nz image 750x600]

Mass reinstalls for all!


I never uninstalled it.

/Need to play The Nameless Mod again.
 
2013-07-09 11:30:20 AM  

ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.


*Silly Camper*. You think Orz are *many bubbles*, but actually, Orz is *fingers*.

Man,it would be nice if those two could make a sequel.

/And I mean an actual sequel. Star Control III does not exist. And they had no hand in it.
 
2013-07-09 11:30:27 AM  

doglover: EA
DRM
Non-upgradable consoles.


Linear play followed by cut scene.  Rinse, repeat.
 
2013-07-09 11:31:16 AM  
Massively bloated budgets is a big one. How can Tomb Raider sell 3.4 million copies in the first month and still be considered a financial failure?

Metacritic/Game Rankings are another. Not the actual service, but the tendency of publishers/financial backers to demand a guarantee of X% or better on those rankings or the developers suffer.
 
2013-07-09 11:31:48 AM  

wildcardjack: I wish I was on enough ADHD meds to focus on gaming.


If you are unable to focus when playing video games, then you are playing the wrong video games. As an Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder sufferer, I can attest to the addictive nature of video games to individuals with such a condition.
 
2013-07-09 11:33:27 AM  

ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.




Heretic!

Melee!
 
2013-07-09 11:35:24 AM  

DanZero: [cdn.gpforums.co.nz image 750x600]

Mass reinstalls for all!


I just picked up System Shock 2, must....not...not....enough.....time....to waste.....
 
2013-07-09 11:36:01 AM  

Dimensio: wildcardjack: I wish I was on enough ADHD meds to focus on gaming.

If you are unable to focus when playing video games, then you are playing the wrong video games. As an Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder sufferer, I can attest to the addictive nature of video games to individuals with such a condition.


Oh, so you were the project lead for Duke Nukem Forever?
 
2013-07-09 11:36:16 AM  
Top notch game developers selling out to Disney.
 
2013-07-09 11:38:17 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Massively bloated budgets is a big one. How can Tomb Raider sell 3.4 million copies in the first month and still be considered a financial failure?


I have a feeling that the majority of the budget is going towards advertising.
 
2013-07-09 11:39:10 AM  

Felgraf: ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.

*Silly Camper*. You think Orz are *many bubbles*, but actually, Orz is *fingers*.

Man,it would be nice if those two could make a sequel.

/And I mean an actual sequel. Star Control III does not exist. And they had no hand in it.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

It's all Archon.
 
2013-07-09 11:42:43 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Metacritic/Game Rankings are another


Based on the interviews I have read by the guy who runs Metacritic, he would consider a restaurant given two stars by Michelin to only have a 67% score.
He is awful, and he is costing developers godawful amounts of incentive money by lumping all review systems into a singular percentage.
 
2013-07-09 11:44:11 AM  

rjakobi: Dimensio: wildcardjack: I wish I was on enough ADHD meds to focus on gaming.

If you are unable to focus when playing video games, then you are playing the wrong video games. As an Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder sufferer, I can attest to the addictive nature of video games to individuals with such a condition.

Oh, so you were the project lead for Duke Nukem Forever?


No; unlike the developers of that game, I am aware of my own incompetence.
 
2013-07-09 11:45:22 AM  

ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.


My ex has encouraged me to play the game, as I have had no familiarity with it. I am finding what I have observed thus far to be intriguing.
 
2013-07-09 11:52:06 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Felgraf: ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.

*Silly Camper*. You think Orz are *many bubbles*, but actually, Orz is *fingers*.

Man,it would be nice if those two could make a sequel.

/And I mean an actual sequel. Star Control III does not exist. And they had no hand in it.



It's all Archon.


Heh I just got a version of that on my phone. It's not bad.
 
2013-07-09 11:53:01 AM  
He's saying EXACTLY what Chris Roberts has been saying... also why he's crowdfunding Star citizen. To take the suits out of the equation.

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/
 
2013-07-09 11:54:48 AM  

js34603: StoPPeRmobile: Felgraf: ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.

*Silly Camper*. You think Orz are *many bubbles*, but actually, Orz is *fingers*.

Man,it would be nice if those two could make a sequel.

/And I mean an actual sequel. Star Control III does not exist. And they had no hand in it.

It's all Archon.

Heh I just got a version of that on my phone. It's not bad.


If you guys want a StarControl-type game, check out SpacePiratesAndZombies (S.P.A.Z.) on Steam. it plays pretty similar, and it's great fun.
 
2013-07-09 11:54:48 AM  

doglover: EA
DRM
Non-upgradable consoles.


Those are just symptoms. The disease is business people running the games industry.

And I don't know how you fix that. It seems like gaming is destined to be a victim of its own success. The resources required to develop a top-notch game can't be had unless you can woo investors--or run a successful kickstarter, but for every Star Citizen there are several projects that didn't get a dime.
 
2013-07-09 11:56:26 AM  
Is the problem that every game is a first-person shooter set in the dystopian future that requires stealth gameplay?
 
2013-07-09 11:57:01 AM  

Vertdang: He's saying EXACTLY what Chris Roberts has been saying... also why he's crowdfunding Star citizen. To take the suits out of the equation.

http://robertsspaceindustries.com/


As someone who pre-bought, if the game is half as a good as freelancer I'll be a happy camper.

//still waiting on a Wing Commander movie sequel
 
2013-07-09 11:59:08 AM  

zedster: //still waiting on a Wing Commander movie sequel


There is no Wing Commander movie. Blair has only ever been played by Mark Hamill.

/Are we clear on that?
 
2013-07-09 12:00:10 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.


YES. SC2 was the Mass Effect of it's day.

I mean that pretty much literally. When I found myself scanning planets for minerals, driving around the surface in a dune buggy, and romancing a blue babe, I knew SOMEONE at Bioware was a fan.
 
2013-07-09 12:00:37 PM  
Deus Ex: Hong Kong: Penthouse:

There was no way I was going to be able to force myself through the security measures of her front door.  I wasn't really modded for the action hero solution.  Think, think...  Dammit, I can't lockpick my way either.  Inventory is low.

Crap.  Lemme run out around back.  Maybe there's something I'm not seeing.  Ah!  Some kind of service elevator.  I'll ride the roof of that to the top of the building.

Dammit.  Another locked door.  But what's this?  A skylight?  Lemme just creep out here a sec.  Whoa.  I can see the mark and her guards from up here.

heh.

<pulls out sword and smiles>

One whack and the glass shatters falling into the room below with me along for the ride.  Having the element of surprise I cap two of the body guards on the way down and run for cover.

THis might just be the most fun I've ever had in HKK.
 
2013-07-09 12:01:07 PM  
I understand artists want to have their "vision" but someone has to be there to tell the artist that the vision is crap or unachievable and we're not going to waste $5M on something that doesn't work.

The problem with many game developers isn't their number-crunchers, testers, budget analysts, time-keepers, and management oversight.  That's actually the strength that bigger developers bring to the table.  Their problem is that they're using these tools while aiming for the WRONG TARGETS.

The goal of "good creative enjoyable game experience" is what they should be aiming for, but too often the direction and vision isn't coming from the creators but from a budget analyst who just wants to copy someone else's success.
 
2013-07-09 12:01:53 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: zedster: //still waiting on a Wing Commander movie sequel

There is no Wing Commander movie. Blair has only ever been played by Mark Hamill.

/Are we clear on that?


okay pilgrim
 
2013-07-09 12:02:06 PM  

doglover: EA
DRM
Non-upgradable consoles.


You want to upgrade something?  Get a pc

/pc gaming master race here
 
2013-07-09 12:04:29 PM  
I was interested until I read that:

Spector, who earned a Masters from the University of Texas's radio, television, and film program in 1980, is busy developing the curriculum of Denius-Sams, which will offer a post-baccalaureate certificate. The program is named after two of its co-founders: Wofford Denius, an entertainment industry attorney who graduated from UT, and Paul Sams, the chief operating officer of Blizzard Entertainment.

Totally lost credibility at that point.
 
2013-07-09 12:05:35 PM  

AntonChigger: doglover: EA
DRM
Non-upgradable consoles.

You want to upgrade something?  Get a pc

/pc gaming master race here


Over 30 posts before the first tool shiats on the thread! I think that's a new record.
 
2013-07-09 12:07:02 PM  

Dimensio: My ex has encouraged me to play the game, as I have had no familiarity with it. I am finding what I have observed thus far to be intriguing.


Keep playing, ask lots of questions, and make sure to read a PDF or something of the story at the beginning of the original manual to make sure you understand the full back-story.  It's really important.  And visit the Androsynth's homeworld.
 
2013-07-09 12:11:28 PM  
"What's wrong with video games" these days is that I'm 29 and now I have to do shiat like "work" and "cook for myself".  The big budget extravaganzas are more extravagant, the indies are better, more numerous, and more available, and 10 year old games are getting to be playable again because emulation is getting better.  I can buy most games without having to leave my apartment and they're stored digitally without wasting space.  If you still think Dues Ex or Planescape Torment are the best games ever made, you can probably buy them for less than $10.
 
2013-07-09 12:11:31 PM  

Killroy69: Paul Sams, the chief operating officer of Blizzard Entertainment.

Totally lost credibility at that point.



Is there a specific story about Sams we should know about? He was with Blizzard from well before Activision started courting them.
 
2013-07-09 12:13:31 PM  

ambassador_ahab: Dimensio: My ex has encouraged me to play the game, as I have had no familiarity with it. I am finding what I have observed thus far to be intriguing.

Keep playing, ask lots of questions, and make sure to read a PDF or something of the story at the beginning of the original manual to make sure you understand the full back-story.  It's really important.  And visit the Androsynth's homeworld.


Delta Tauri for all your strip mining needs.

/Bring a full compliment of ship engines
 
2013-07-09 12:21:20 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: scottydoesntknow: Metacritic/Game Rankings are another

Based on the interviews I have read by the guy who runs Metacritic, he would consider a restaurant given two stars by Michelin to only have a 67% score.
He is awful, and he is costing developers godawful amounts of incentive money by lumping all review systems into a singular percentage.


THIS

I haven't worked for EA since 2010, but even then meetings would be littered with talk about metacritic ratings. I can only imagine how bad it eventually became.

I'd like to think it got better after JR left.
 
2013-07-09 12:22:05 PM  
art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-07-09 12:22:30 PM  

BafflerMeal: Deus Ex: Hong Kong: Penthouse:

There was no way I was going to be able to force myself through the security measures of her front door.  I wasn't really modded for the action hero solution.  Think, think...  Dammit, I can't lockpick my way either.  Inventory is low.

Crap.  Lemme run out around back.  Maybe there's something I'm not seeing.  Ah!  Some kind of service elevator.  I'll ride the roof of that to the top of the building.

Dammit.  Another locked door.  But what's this?  A skylight?  Lemme just creep out here a sec.  Whoa.  I can see the mark and her guards from up here.

heh.

<pulls out sword and smiles>

One whack and the glass shatters falling into the room below with me along for the ride.  Having the element of surprise I cap two of the body guards on the way down and run for cover.

THis might just be the most fun I've ever had in HKK.


That is why the game was so damn awesome. There was always a way to do something. If you were set for stealth, you could find a way to progress even in areas where firepower seemed the easiest solution.

The hangar in HK was another area. You could blast all the guards or do what I liked to do and sneak into the service tunnels and release the gas to take them all out without a shot. It's not like newer games where you had to do it that way because it had to fit into the following cinema when you left the area. Even when you tried to break the game (by killing the cyborg agent on the plane, for instance). you didn't break the game but instead set it down a whole new path of the story. In my mind when I saw that, I said "How did they know someone would try and booby trap the plane?" And it changed several lines of dialogue between the characters later in the story. It's that kind of planning and storytelling that I loved about DX.
 
2013-07-09 12:27:51 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Massively bloated budgets is a big one. How can Tomb Raider sell 3.4 million copies in the first month and still be considered a financial failure?


That made me sad, since I think the reboot was pretty good too. I don't think even the original Tomb Raider games did as well as what they were expecting this time around.
 
2013-07-09 12:34:17 PM  

Vertdang: js34603: StoPPeRmobile: Felgraf: ambassador_ahab: Talk to Paul Rieche and Fred Ford II if you wanna know about how to develop a good game that's waaay ahead of its time.

I'm speaking of course of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters.

Source code has been released and it's been ported to just about everything by enthusiastic fans.

*Silly Camper*. You think Orz are *many bubbles*, but actually, Orz is *fingers*.

Man,it would be nice if those two could make a sequel.

/And I mean an actual sequel. Star Control III does not exist. And they had no hand in it.

It's all Archon.

Heh I just got a version of that on my phone. It's not bad.

If you guys want a StarControl-type game, check out SpacePiratesAndZombies (S.P.A.Z.) on Steam. it plays pretty similar, and it's great fun.




Has to be multiplayer so that there are tears to harvest.
 
2013-07-09 12:36:17 PM  

zedster: Deus EX has great replay value because it's fairly open but not in the cartoonie GTA sandbox way. You can play stealth or go cowboy and get different reactions. Games with good stories will have better replay value then GENERIC FPS 5! any day of the week. Outside of good multiplayer if you want a game to be a keeper the single player needs to have a story that pulls the player in, Deus Ex is one of the games that rises above the level of pulp media into something greater.

TL;DR
COD:Video Games::Danielle Steele:Literature


Pretty much yeah.  The problem is that Deus Ex fails every current metric used to determine project viability.   When you have focus groups that are nothing but 18 - 25 year old males (despite the average gamer being mid-30's), preferably at College and people running around saying you can't have a female lead (unless it's Ellen Ripley).

/Ripley held a Class 2 license, she didn't know how to use anything nastier than what amounted to a ikkle forklift.
// Her starship piloting skills not being terribly effective.
 
2013-07-09 12:37:51 PM  
Three biggest things wrong with the gaming industry:
EA
EA
EA
 
2013-07-09 12:43:21 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Massively bloated budgets is a big one. How can Tomb Raider sell 3.4 million copies in the first month and still be considered a financial failure?

Metacritic/Game Rankings are another. Not the actual service, but the tendency of publishers/financial backers to demand a guarantee of X% or better on those rankings or the developers suffer.


Bloated budgets are the kind of burden of movies and games now. A few times really big games or movies justify them but most of the time the developers just think more money=always better quality. I heard The Witcher 2 was almost $10 million in budget and that game is farking excellent. The people at CD Projekt Red knew where to coordinate and concentrate their resources instead of "Alright blank check let us just make everything realistic and explosion prone!"

And yeah, a shame on Square Enix with the Tomb Raider reboot. I actually thought it was going to suck but it apparently impressed my closest friend who played the games back in the 90s. I blame the corporate desire for games to be the next Mario/Zelda/Call of Duty and sell like hotcakes. The crap will eventually fly back into their faces and they'll learn from it...I hope.
 
2013-07-09 12:45:05 PM  

FunkyBlue: BafflerMeal: Deus Ex: Hong Kong: Penthouse:

There was no way I was going to be able to force myself through the security measures of her front door.  I wasn't really modded for the action hero solution.  Think, think...  Dammit, I can't lockpick my way either.  Inventory is low.

Crap.  Lemme run out around back.  Maybe there's something I'm not seeing.  Ah!  Some kind of service elevator.  I'll ride the roof of that to the top of the building.

Dammit.  Another locked door.  But what's this?  A skylight?  Lemme just creep out here a sec.  Whoa.  I can see the mark and her guards from up here.

heh.

<pulls out sword and smiles>

One whack and the glass shatters falling into the room below with me along for the ride.  Having the element of surprise I cap two of the body guards on the way down and run for cover.

THis might just be the most fun I've ever had in HKK.

That is why the game was so damn awesome. There was always a way to do something. If you were set for stealth, you could find a way to progress even in areas where firepower seemed the easiest solution.

The hangar in HK was another area. You could blast all the guards or do what I liked to do and sneak into the service tunnels and release the gas to take them all out without a shot. It's not like newer games where you had to do it that way because it had to fit into the following cinema when you left the area. Even when you tried to break the game (by killing the cyborg agent on the plane, for instance). you didn't break the game but instead set it down a whole new path of the story. In my mind when I saw that, I said "How did they know someone would try and booby trap the plane?" And it changed several lines of dialogue between the characters later in the story. It's that kind of planning and storytelling that I loved about DX.



http://rooc.offtopicproductions.com/blog/2007/11/13/nonlinearity-in- le vel-design/


rooc.offtopicproductions.com
 
2013-07-09 12:46:17 PM  

Felgraf: *Silly Camper*. You think Orz are *many bubbles*, but actually, Orz is *fingers*.


Ahh, memories. My roommate and I had SC2 and X-Wing, lots of time got lost that year.
 
2013-07-09 12:46:54 PM  

Vertdang: If you guys want a StarControl-type game, check out SpacePiratesAndZombies (S.P.A.Z.) on Steam. it plays pretty similar, and it's great fun


I went to check it out and apparently I own it.  Must have come through one of my Humble Bundles, but my game backlog is reaching "realizing you went to class naked" levels of embarrassment, so I probably never would have played it.  It is installing now.  Thanks much!
 
2013-07-09 12:50:24 PM  

cefm: I understand artists want to have their "vision" but someone has to be there to tell the artist that the vision is crap or unachievable and we're not going to waste $5M on something that doesn't work.


Artists need to STFU about their vision and deliver what the consumer wants or they can ditch the patron system and go indie along with all the risks associated with doing so.  After Mass Effect 3 and all the shilling (paid or otherwise makes no difference to me) about 'the integrity of the artistic vision' the whole lot of them need a reminder of who they are reliant on for their ability to work in that field i.e. US.


Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: zedster: //still waiting on a Wing Commander movie sequel

There is no Wing Commander movie. Blair has only ever been played by Mark Hamill.

/Are we clear on that?


Ahh the retcon retcon.  See the movie was, according to Roberts in the day much closer to his vision of what the Kilrathi should look like and how the universe should feel.  He actually had quite a major role in developing the story as well, so whilst you can blame the low budget stuff on well a low budget the whole black hole jumping math mutant thing is totally down to him.

Until the movie tanked and he retconned that part of his history.

Roberts also said the single reason why Wing Commander never had Newtonian flight in the game was limited processing capabilities of the day; which the game I-War shat all over.  I want to know what his current excuse is for not having Newtonian flight in Star Citizen is.

The man will happily retcon himself up his own asshole given half a chance.

brap: Is the problem that every game is a first-person shooter set in the dystopian future that requires stealth gameplay?


No.  It's that every game is a first-person shooter set in a dystopian future that has POOR stealth gameplay.  The original Splinter Cell was abysmal, it even advertised itself as being a Deus Ex style game (kill em and deal with the consequences or go stealthy and deal with those consequences) which was a blatant lie.

Stealth is fine, I've nothing against a stealth game.  I've a major problem with games announcing they let you adapt to circumstances and then going "Game Over" when it forces you to resort to 'Plan B'.
 
2013-07-09 12:52:14 PM  

pyrotek85: scottydoesntknow: Massively bloated budgets is a big one. How can Tomb Raider sell 3.4 million copies in the first month and still be considered a financial failure?

That made me sad, since I think the reboot was pretty good too. I don't think even the original Tomb Raider games did as well as what they were expecting this time around.


Until The last of Us came out Tomb Raider was my favorite game of 2013. IMO it was much more entertaining than Bioshock Infinite and I cared a lot more about what happened to Laura Croft than I did Booker Dewitt and his female sidekick combined.

That said bioshock infinite was still a fun game, just that I wish it could have been less action and more exploration.  I think that Columbia was too cool of an environment to completely ignore and put tons of murderous assholes into.  When I first saw a sign outside of a shop that detailed the hours and days of the week that the store was 'docked' in that location I just imagined how awesome an open world Columbia would be.  I'm not one of those people who thinks that open world is always a good thing but that dynamic environment is almost begging to be made into an open world game.
 
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