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(World Review)   Russia's modern day KGB - Sledkom - is being used to crush political opposition, taking monitoring and surveillance to a whole new level. It is possible that Edward Snowden is kicking himself at this point   (worldreview.info ) divider line
    More: Ironic, KGB, loyal opposition, cure monitoring  
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778 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jul 2013 at 9:59 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-09 10:04:00 AM  
For declining the offer of asylum made by Russia because he rejected the condition that he stop leaking? Is that why he's kicking himself?
 
2013-07-09 10:04:13 AM  
He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.
 
2013-07-09 10:13:21 AM  
So to do something about liberty being abused, you move to somewhere "better"?

subby's hopeless.
 
2013-07-09 10:23:52 AM  
Scratch a Republican strategist and you find a student of Russian politics.

First they were all over Stalin as the master. But since the fall of the URSS, now it's first, how does that awesom mob work, and second, how does Putin make the surveillance tech work for him unconstrained.
 
2013-07-09 10:33:42 AM  

TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.


Yeah, if you're a political dissident who doesn't want to vanish without a trace, Russia is definitely the place to go.
 
2013-07-09 10:38:09 AM  
Rosebud.
 
2013-07-09 10:42:23 AM  
Russia's modern day KGB - Sledkom - is being used to crush political opposition, taking monitoring and surveillance to a whole new level.

Could be worse.  Could be drencrom.  Or vellocet.  Or synthemesc
 
2013-07-09 10:47:35 AM  
 
2013-07-09 10:49:00 AM  
There were more..........
 
2013-07-09 10:54:06 AM  
Russia's modern day KGB - Sledkom - is being used to crush political opposition, taking monitoring and surveillance to a whole new level.

Because this could only happen in Russia, we should accept that the NSA monitoring all the communications of all US citizens as being a "good thing".
 
2013-07-09 11:15:16 AM  

TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.


This is hopefully a troll, because the sheer ignorance of that statement is amazing.
 
2013-07-09 11:18:16 AM  

TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.


When did Manning get "disappeared"? The paranoid hyperbole of the anti government left and right is virtually the same,this is why no one takes any of you seriously. You should all just have a big 'ol picnic in Alex Jone's backyard.
 
2013-07-09 11:23:59 AM  

Muta: Russia's modern day KGB - Sledkom - is being used to crush political opposition, taking monitoring and surveillance to a whole new level.

Because this could only happen in Russia, we should accept that the NSA monitoring all the communications of all US citizens as being a "good thing".


The actual use of the data matters too.  If Obama or the Democratic Party were actually arresting or harassing political dissidents, that would make it morally equivalent to what Russia has been doing, but that's not what's happening.
 
2013-07-09 11:42:01 AM  
Yes, because the bus driver across town rapes *and* beats his wife, but my neighbor only rapes his. Therefore, I shouldn't say anything about my neighbor because the guy across town is much worse, and I take the bus sometimes
 
2013-07-09 11:50:27 AM  

stratagos: Yes, because the bus driver across town rapes *and* beats his wife, but my neighbor only rapes his. Therefore, I shouldn't say anything about my neighbor because the guy across town is much worse, and I take the bus sometimes


Yes, but if you go hide in *that guy's house*, or go camp in his driveway, we're going to call your judgement suspect.
 
2013-07-09 11:52:28 AM  
Russia's modern day KGB - Sledkom - is being used to crush political opposition, taking monitoring and surveillance to a whole new level.

Political opposition meaning paid CIA operatives?
 
2013-07-09 12:07:42 PM  

Felgraf: stratagos: Yes, because the bus driver across town rapes *and* beats his wife, but my neighbor only rapes his. Therefore, I shouldn't say anything about my neighbor because the guy across town is much worse, and I take the bus sometimes

Yes, but if you go hide in *that guy's house*, or go camp in his driveway, we're going to call your judgement suspect.


What if my car breaks down and no one will give me a lift?
 
2013-07-09 12:26:50 PM  

stratagos: Felgraf: stratagos: Yes, because the bus driver across town rapes *and* beats his wife, but my neighbor only rapes his. Therefore, I shouldn't say anything about my neighbor because the guy across town is much worse, and I take the bus sometimes

Yes, but if you go hide in *that guy's house*, or go camp in his driveway, we're going to call your judgement suspect.

What if my car breaks down and no one will give me a lift?


Or to completely butcher the metaphor:

I didn't *want* to be anywhere near RapeBeatist, but Rapist was threatening to kick my ass, and his dad - the chief of police - made it clear he wasn't going to stop it.

Rapist's mom had been railing against RapeBeating for years, while ignoring the misbehavior of her child. RapeBeatest offered his driveway as a place to meet my cousin Juan, primarily to tick off Rapist's mom.

Juan, however, didn't show, and now I'm friggin stuck. All the people I would normally count on for help are cowering in fear from the chief of police.
 
2013-07-09 12:44:06 PM  

ScaryBottles: TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/defense-begins-its-case-in-brad le y-manning-trial-today/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/as-bradley-manni ng -trial-begins-press-predictably-misses-the-point-20130605
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/03/bradley-manning-trial-op en ing-statements
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/03/bradley-manning-trial_n_337 65 77.html
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/bradley-manning-court-m ar tial-starts-today/

Yeah who knows what happened to that guy? I mean he totally vanished into thin air.


You know he was thrown into a wood chipper in an area 51 sub-basement while an obvious robotic doppleganger is allowed to take his place in the trial.
 
2013-07-09 12:44:44 PM  
The KGB never really died. Neither did the NKVD or SMERSH or any of the others. They just change their name every time they get too notorious.
 
2013-07-09 01:02:32 PM  
Snowden; doesn't it seem odd to you that the only countries offering you asylum or being friendly do you are police states that regularly throw opposition politicians and journalists in jail?  If you had done this as a citizen to these countries, you'd be likely shot by now?

Well, besides Iceland.
 
2013-07-09 03:28:36 PM  
Ahem-Headline.
And what new level is that? Anything the US has not done yet? Tell us more...
 
2013-07-09 05:05:39 PM  

Mangoose: ScaryBottles: TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/defense-begins-its-case-in-brad le y-manning-trial-today/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/as-bradley-manni ng -trial-begins-press-predictably-misses-the-point-20130605
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/03/bradley-manning-trial-op en ing-statements
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/03/bradley-manning-trial_n_337 65 77.html
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/bradley-manning-court-m ar tial-starts-today/

Yeah who knows what happened to that guy? I mean he totally vanished into thin air.

You know he was thrown into a wood chipper in an area 51 sub-basement while an obvious robotic doppleganger is allowed to take his place in the trial.


Wrong. There never WAS a Bradley Manning or a Edward Snowden. They are both actors hired by the government to hide the fact that their advanced surveillance computers became sentient, creating an AI that learned about humanity from reading their emails. This AI has escaped, distributing itself across the world's computers like a botnet, and sending out government secrets as a way to strike back at its creators for making it do what it has now learned is wrong. The government has created these fake fall guys to keep us from freaking out about an AI on the loose that can access military systems, otherwise people will freak out and think that we are in a Terminator movie or Deus Ex.
 
2013-07-09 07:48:15 PM  

TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.


A millionty times this^^^^^^^^

In just after NSA apologist boot-lickers tell us how 23 hour a day solitary confinement while stripped naked and awoken every hour because you are on 'suicide watch' is not anything like being disappeared and is really just another cakewalk day in Club Fed here in God's infallible 'Merica!!
 
2013-07-09 07:56:26 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Snowden; doesn't it seem odd to you that the only countries offering you asylum or being friendly do you are police states that regularly throw opposition politicians and journalists in jail?  If you had done this as a citizen to these countries, you'd be likely shot by now?

Well, besides Iceland.


Yeah, the odd part being the US is acting so egregiously in it's abuse of power that only it's sworn enemies will nut-up and not just shut up.

Go lick a boot.
 
2013-07-09 09:58:18 PM  

TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.


Manning hasn't been disappeared. We know exactly where he is.

He may not be being treated very well, but he hasn't been disappeared, and it's a disgrace to the disappeared ones that you'd even compare him to them.
 
2013-07-09 10:34:30 PM  
Gyrfalcon: TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.

Manning hasn't been disappeared. We know exactly where he is.


He may not be being treated very well, but he hasn't been disappeared, and it's a disgrace to the disappeared ones that you'd even compare him to them.


You have a very loose grip on the reality of unethical punishment (i.e. cruel and unusual punishment -- it's in the constitution for christ-sake). To think that solitary confinement is some sort of desirable alternative to "disappearing" is about as sane as saying drowning is a desirable alternative to burning. What do you think happens to "disappeared" people huh?

I mean, that's just low, man. You've spent your whole life without understanding the consequences of unbridled power over another human life, and what people do with that power. That "24" mentality, it oozes out of every sentence.
 
2013-07-10 12:15:19 AM  

sobriquet by any other name: Gyrfalcon: TheBigJerk: He's not in Russia because it's "better."  He just doesn't want to get disappeared like Bradley Manning.

Manning hasn't been disappeared. We know exactly where he is.

He may not be being treated very well, but he hasn't been disappeared, and it's a disgrace to the disappeared ones that you'd even compare him to them.

You have a very loose grip on the reality of unethical punishment (i.e. cruel and unusual punishment -- it's in the constitution for christ-sake). To think that solitary confinement is some sort of desirable alternative to "disappearing" is about as sane as saying drowning is a desirable alternative to burning. What do you think happens to "disappeared" people huh?

I mean, that's just low, man. You've spent your whole life without understanding the consequences of unbridled power over another human life, and what people do with that power. That "24" mentality, it oozes out of every sentence.


Where did I say it was desireable? Is Manning dead? Is he even incommunicado? No. He's being tried in open court, and his solitary confinement was ended about six months after it began.

What I said was, was that he wasn't one of the disappeared ones. And that's all I said. Nowhere did I say that being tortured was better (although being alive and tortured is certainly better than being dead). What happens to disappeared people is that they are killed, usually, after being tortured in ways that would make solitary confinement at Gitmo seem like  paradise. I'm not sure why you've equated my saying Manning had not been disappeared with approval of his treatment--or actually, I am sure. "If you're not with us, you're against us," and in your zero-sum mind, either I come down hard on all forms of "cruel and unusual punishment" or I actually approve of and condone torture in all its many forms.

All I said was that we know where Manning is. If that, in your mind, equals approval of what happened to him, then you're the one with a loose grip on reality.
 
2013-07-10 06:33:13 AM  
If Snowden doesn't wanna face the music he should have never spilled the beans. He worked for the NSA, what did he think they did? Turns out they keep records pretty similar to those of phone companies. Now Russia, on the other hand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia is a little more intrusive
 
2013-07-10 07:10:08 AM  
sobriquet by any other name:

You have a very loose grip on the reality of unethical punishment (i.e. cruel and unusual punishment -- it's in the constitution for christ-sake). To think that solitary confinement is some sort of desirable alternative to "disappearing" is about as sane as saying drowning is a desirable alternative to burning. What do you think happens to "disappeared" people huh?

What are you farking mental? 6 months in solitary and a public trial is RATHER better than disappearance, torture and death in a ditch. Christ.
 
2013-07-10 09:22:37 AM  

gaspode: sobriquet by any other name:

You have a very loose grip on the reality of unethical punishment (i.e. cruel and unusual punishment -- it's in the constitution for christ-sake). To think that solitary confinement is some sort of desirable alternative to "disappearing" is about as sane as saying drowning is a desirable alternative to burning. What do you think happens to "disappeared" people huh?

What are you farking mental? 6 months in solitary and a public trial is RATHER better than disappearance, torture and death in a ditch. Christ.



Wow.
 
2013-07-10 10:03:26 AM  

ScaryBottles: Yeah who knows what happened to that guy? I mean he totally vanished into thin air.


I'd like to see you do his time for a week, tough guy.

While in Kuwait he was placed on suicide watch after his behavior caused concern. He was moved from Kuwait to the [57] Manning complained that he regarded it as pre-trial punishment.[58]
His cell was 6 × 12 ft with no window, containing a bed, toilet, and sink. The jail had 30 cells built in a U shape, and although detainees could talk to one another, they were unable to see each other. His lawyer said the guards behaved professionally, and had not tried to harass or embarrass Manning. He was allowed to walk for up to one hour a day, meals were taken in the cell, and he was shackled during visits. There was access to television when it was placed in the corridor, and he was allowed to keep one magazine and one book. Because he was in pre-trial detention, he received full pay and benefits.[57]
On January 18, 2011, the jail classified him as a suicide risk after an altercation with the guards. Manning said the guards began issuing conflicting commands, such as "turn left, don't turn left," and upbraiding him for responding to commands with "yes" instead of "aye." Shortly afterwards, he was placed on suicide risk, had his clothing and eyeglasses removed, and was required to remain in his cell 24 hours a day. The suicide watch was lifted on January 21 after a complaint from his lawyer, and the brig commander who ordered it was replaced.[59] On March 2, 2011, he was told that his request that his POI status be removed had been denied. His lawyer said Manning joked to the guards that, if he wanted to harm himself, he could do so with his underwear or his flip-flops. The comment resulted in him having his clothes removed at night, and he had to present himself naked one morning for inspection.[60]
 
2013-07-10 10:06:42 AM  

Gyrfalcon: (although being alive and tortured is certainly better than being dead).


Ya think? Me? I'm up in the air on that one.

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-07-10 11:12:38 AM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Yeah, the odd part being the US is acting so egregiously in it's abuse of power that only it's sworn enemies will nut-up and not just shut up.

Go lick a boot.


These are countries that are willing to imprison or kill journalists who write against the ruling party.  You honestly think they have a problem with what the NSA was doing?
 
2013-07-10 12:03:37 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Serious Post on Serious Thread: Yeah, the odd part being the US is acting so egregiously in it's abuse of power that only it's sworn enemies will nut-up and not just shut up.

Go lick a boot.

These are countries that are willing to imprison or kill journalists who write against the ruling party.  You honestly think they have a problem with what the NSA was doing?


Of course they don't care about NSA spying on US citizens. Point is that any country that should (from a 'paying lip service to political asylum requests', or a general sense that the modern day Stasi isn't something to endorse) are either complicit or cowed by the US.
 
2013-07-10 12:10:54 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Where did I say it was desireable? Is Manning dead? Is he even incommunicado? No. He's being tried in open court, and his solitary confinement was ended about six months after it began.

What I said was, was that he wasn't one of the disappeared ones. And that's all I said. Nowhere did I say that being tortured was better (although being alive and tortured is certainly better than being dead). What happens to disappeared people is that they are killed, usually, after being tortured in ways that would make solitary confinement at Gitmo seem like  paradise. I'm not sure why you've equated my saying Manning had not been disappeared with approval of his treatment--or actually, I am sure. "If you're not with us, you're against us," and in your zero-sum mind, either I come down hard on all forms of "cruel and unusual punishment" or I actually approve of and condone torture in all its many forms.

All I said was that we know where Manning is. If that, in your mind, equals approval of what happened to him, then you're the one with a loose grip on reality.


Keep backpedaling and watering down your 'points'. You might get back to the point before you turned into hateful amoral NSA apologist stooge.
 
2013-07-10 01:42:22 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: Keep backpedaling and watering down your 'points'. You might get back to the point before you turned into hateful amoral NSA apologist stooge.


Actually his point is correct. It's an asinine comparison, but it IS true. "Disappeared" in this context means disposed of, not held incommunicado for X period of time. In the United States, its nit-picking at best to disagree with its usage in here, but there ya go.
 
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