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(Penny Arcade)   "The fact that our core target is males 15-25 is not an excuse. We...believe that they can be smart enough to identify with that type of character." Claims developer who has never interacted with males aged 15-25   (penny-arcade.com) divider line 106
    More: Unlikely, global warming, female characters, social commentary, PAX East  
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7898 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Jul 2013 at 3:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 01:42:07 PM  
You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the Report.

*blink*

At first I was gonna biatch that the lede said the article would explain how Facebook got the publisher to edit out references to global warming and it didn't but then I got to that line.

It's 2013, the world of gamers has never been so large nor so diverse and some asshat in a suit is still saying the rule is "No lead female characters evah"?

Damn, where's Jill Valentine when ya need her?

/Game looks like it could be good.
//The world needs more cyber-punk based games.
 
2013-07-08 02:10:18 PM  

quatchi: You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the Report.

*blink*

At first I was gonna biatch that the lede said the article would explain how Facebook got the publisher to edit out references to global warming and it didn't but then I got to that line.

It's 2013, the world of gamers has never been so large nor so diverse and some asshat in a suit is still saying the rule is "No lead female characters evah"?

Damn, where's Jill Valentine when ya need her?

/Game looks like it could be good.
//The world needs more cyber-punk based games.


Honestly I don't believe him. It seems like one of those "I want to be controversial to get my name out there" and what better way than claiming some big no-name corporations turned down your game because you had the balls to have a female protagonist.

He's acting like he's breaking new ground here when there's a long history of female protagonists in video games.
 
2013-07-08 02:26:04 PM  
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this "a female protagonist is so controversial" thing seems a little bit manufactured.  Maybe they should have focused that effort on making the game feel like I was actually controlling something instead of just dragging my character along the path they drew for her.

People in Neo Paris sure do stay fit though, climbing over walls and doing complicated parkour moves to get everywhere they're going.
 
2013-07-08 02:35:15 PM  
www.supercheats.com
 
2013-07-08 03:21:05 PM  
No one has cared about whether or not the lead character was male or female since Ms. Pac Man.

Just make a decent game, and people will buy it.
 
2013-07-08 03:23:54 PM  
This assertion that publishers won't touch female-led games isn't unique to this publisher.  It's the conjunction of the risk-averse(scratch that risk-terrified) games industry, and a subset of their target audience being sexist losers.

Anyone who's saying that this is the developer trying to brew up controversy has never dealt with a publisher, of any medium, ever.  They are the most focus-group driven marketing morons the world has ever known.
 
2013-07-08 03:24:12 PM  
No males aged 15-25 would ever play a game with a female protagonist.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-08 03:24:31 PM  

WhippingBoy: No one has cared about whether or not the lead character was male or female since Ms. Pac Man.

Just make a decent game, and people will buy it.


I refuse to play male characters.  If the camera is going to be behind the character I at least want a tight little female ass to look at
 
2013-07-08 03:24:35 PM  
Maybe, maybe, it just SEEMS ridiculous because it IS, not because it's a lie?
 
2013-07-08 03:24:47 PM  

WhippingBoy: No one has cared about whether or not the lead character was male or female since Ms. Pac Man.

Just make a decent game, and people will buy it.


Except, and this is important, the people who sell the games to distributors.
 
2013-07-08 03:26:41 PM  

WhippingBoy: No one has cared about whether or not the lead character was male or female since Ms. Pac Man.

Just make a decent game, and people will buy it.



Well I think I've found the problem.
 
2013-07-08 03:32:35 PM  
That doesn't mean Nilin's sex wasn't on other people's minds, though. By the time Remember Me was shown to prospective publishers, it was too late to change Nilin from a woman to a man, and this was enough to cause potential backers to abstain from publishing the game. "We had some that said, 'Well, we don't want to publish it because that's not going to succeed. You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the Report. "For example, the popular FemShep protagonist of the Mass Effect series was really a guy with breast implants."
 
2013-07-08 03:34:06 PM  
Aerith, Blaze, Chell, Chun Li, Lara, Rikku, Samus, Sonya, Tifa, Yuna...
 
2013-07-08 03:34:51 PM  
Even if Moris had changed Nilin to be male, that solution produced its own drama. "We wanted to be able to tease on Nilin's private life, and that means for instance, at one point, we wanted a scene where she was kissing a guy," Moris said. "We had people tell us, 'You can't make a dude like the player kiss another dude in the game, that's going to feel awkward.' Others suggested that if we made Nilin male we'd have to make that other player female, but everyone knows you can't have a female love interest NPC in a game. At most, you can have a sign saying that she's in another castle and that wouldn't work for this story."
 
2013-07-08 03:37:06 PM  
Besides all the extra hassle a virtual sex change would cause Remember Me, having Nilin be female makes sense from a thematic standpoint as well. "The fact is that we're doing a cyberpunk game, and there are cyberpunk games out there that are about physical augmentation and transhumanism, and those are very male worlds in a way," Moris said. "Men are always very focused on physical enhancement or enlargement of certain aspects of their bodies, at least according to my email."
 
2013-07-08 03:41:30 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: I refuse to play male characters.  If the camera is going to be behind the character I at least want a tight little female ass to look at


That's not the reason I play them, but I do as well- in RPGs, the character interactions are frequently different when playing male vs female, and it increases replayability.

Of course, I always play my female characters the same way: take advantage of every gender-motivated conversation option, inevitably turning them into total slutbags.

/[Flirt:] Why yes, I *do* do that on the first quest
//[Cherchez la Femme:] (Bang the hot female NPC)
 
2013-07-08 03:42:18 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Aerith, Blaze, Chell, Chun LiLara, Rikku, Samus, Sonya, Tifa, Yuna...


Now that we've knocked off those from foreign developers, because different countries have different gender role problems(I'm looking at you Other M), we're left with one character.  Who never talks.
 
2013-07-08 03:43:32 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Aerith, Blaze, Chell, Chun Li, Lara, Rikku, Samus, Sonya, Tifa, Yuna...


Faith from Mirror's Edge was my first thought, along with Chell.
 
2013-07-08 03:44:54 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Honestly I don't believe him. It seems like one of those "I want to be controversial to get my name out there" and what better way than claiming some big no-name corporations turned down your game because you had the balls to have a female protagonist.


I don't think it's hard to believe. Those people do everything through a filter of what sells, and if they have a spreadsheet that says male characters move .01% more units, they want a male character.
 
2013-07-08 03:45:15 PM  

grinding_journalist: Smeggy Smurf: I refuse to play male characters.  If the camera is going to be behind the character I at least want a tight little female ass to look at

That's not the reason I play them, but I do as well- in RPGs, the character interactions are frequently different when playing male vs female, and it increases replayability.

Of course, I always play my female characters the same way: take advantage of every gender-motivated conversation option, inevitably turning them into total slutbags.

/[Flirt:] Why yes, I *do* do that on the first quest
//[Cherchez la Femme:] (Bang the hot female NPC)


Of course.  I bet most people playing broads in Skyrim married another broad too.
 
2013-07-08 03:46:22 PM  

stevetherobot: No males aged 15-25 would ever play a game with a female protagonist.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x480]


That last Tomb Raider game was an excellent example of a strong female lead without injecting stupid sexist bullshiat. She wasn't some helpless character, her breasts weren't monstrosities bursting out of an outfit made of dental floss, and she wasn't chasing after a man she was madly in love with.

It was great character building when, in the beginning, she was alone in the wilderness with crazy people trying to kill her and she was justifiably scared. When I got to the point where I was going after my friends being held hostage and she started screaming at the baddies, "That's right, run! I'm coming for all of you!" I got really pumped.
 
2013-07-08 03:46:53 PM  

ikanreed: we're left with one character.  Who never talks


Yeah, because the male protagonists for most FPS are known for spouting Shakespearean soliloquies for the entire game.  She never talks because FPS protagonists are all mutes
 
2013-07-08 03:46:58 PM  

grinding_journalist: Smeggy Smurf: I refuse to play male characters.  If the camera is going to be behind the character I at least want a tight little female ass to look at

That's not the reason I play them, but I do as well- in RPGs, the character interactions are frequently different when playing male vs female, and it increases replayability.

Of course, I always play my female characters the same way: take advantage of every gender-motivated conversation option, inevitably turning them into total slutbags.

/[Flirt:] Why yes, I *do* do that on the first quest
//[Cherchez la Femme:] (Bang the hot female NPC)


Ha. The first thing I do in Fallout regardless of the gender of my toon is make them bisexual to get all of the speech check options.
 
2013-07-08 03:47:49 PM  

phalamir: ikanreed: we're left with one character.  Who never talks

Yeah, because the male protagonists for most FPS are known for spouting Shakespearean soliloquies for the entire game.  She never talks because FPS protagonists are all mutes


Not all, but Valve's sure are. And to good effect.
 
2013-07-08 03:49:00 PM  

WhippingBoy: No one has cared about whether or not the lead character was male or female since Ms. Pac Man.


There was a time when people didn't care, but those days are gone. Nowadays the games are being made by ascended fanboys, and that's worked about as well for gaming as it has for comics.

Just make a decent game, and people will buy it.

Tell that to the game devs. They'll laugh you out of the room.
 
2013-07-08 03:50:29 PM  
As some people have already pointed out you can have a female lead character you just need to follow one of two rules:

1. Make it so no one knows it is a girl (Metroid, Portal)
2. Make her have huge breasts, a revealing outfit, or both (every fighting game ever)
 
2013-07-08 03:51:02 PM  
The problem with remember me was that they turned an interesting story in a beautiful world into a slog of boring quick time events.

A game where you can alter peoples memory at will and they decide that pushing X repeatedly to defeat the robot should be a key game play feature.
 
2013-07-08 03:52:59 PM  

quatchi: Damn, where's Jill Valentine when ya need her?


img845.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-08 03:53:16 PM  
desktop.freewallpaper4.me
 
2013-07-08 03:54:49 PM  

Carth: 2. Make her have huge breasts, a revealing outfit, or both (every fighting game ever)


img689.imageshack.us

I wouldn't say huge. Ample but not huge
 
2013-07-08 03:55:04 PM  
And it's a damn shame that Remember Me will never get a sequel or anything vaguely resembling one, because under that mechanically bankrupt game is the second draft for one of the most utterly jaw-dropping and stunning game worlds I have ever seen.  Spent the first two or so hours just looking at all the environments and details and textures.  In a world with no limitations, Capcom gets their brawler team to work on the combat, has the Dontnod artists do the visuals, then have someone make the augmented reality provide overlays more interesting than "LEAPERS COME OUT OF HERE!", and you could have one of the coolest games ever.

ikanreed: Anyone who's saying that this is the developer trying to brew up controversy has never dealt with a publisher, of any medium, ever. They are the most focus-group driven marketing morons the world has ever known.


"Culture of misogyny" riles up more emotion and pageclicks than "video game industry doesn't make anything which isn't a brown modern shooter these days".
 
2013-07-08 03:56:02 PM  

Mike_LowELL: "Culture of misogyny" riles up more emotion and pageclicks than "video game industry doesn't make anything which isn't a brown modern shooter these days".


how many brown people in this game?

img839.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-08 03:56:58 PM  
cant leave out the Queen of video games!

img196.imageshack.us

Lady Craft.
 
2013-07-08 03:58:44 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Mike_LowELL: "Culture of misogyny" riles up more emotion and pageclicks than "video game industry doesn't make anything which isn't a brown modern shooter these days".

how many brown people in this game?

[img839.imageshack.us image 720x466]


I think he meant the overuse of filters in War Games, not brown PEOPLE.
 
2013-07-08 04:00:45 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Mike_LowELL: "Culture of misogyny" riles up more emotion and pageclicks than "video game industry doesn't make anything which isn't a brown modern shooter these days".

how many brown people in this game?

[img839.imageshack.us image 720x466]


Easy there champ. He means the color filters, not the people in it.
 
2013-07-08 04:01:48 PM  

LasersHurt: I think he meant the overuse of filters in War Games, not brown PEOPLE.


really and truly I wasn't making a point. I just like to post something with my pictures...

img594.imageshack.us

I think you're right about what he meant, but I really did read it the other way.
 
2013-07-08 04:02:31 PM  
Thanks for the save.  I can troll reply to the post now.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: how many brown people in this game?


I don't know, because I don't play video games for babies.  I play e-Sports, like Imagine Babyz.
 
2013-07-08 04:02:35 PM  

Theaetetus: Besides all the extra hassle a virtual sex change would cause Remember Me, having Nilin be female makes sense from a thematic standpoint as well. "The fact is that we're doing a cyberpunk game, and there are cyberpunk games out there that are about physical augmentation and transhumanism, and those are very male worlds in a way," Moris said. "Men are always very focused on physical enhancement or enlargement of certain aspects of their bodies, at least according to my email."


Is he farking kidding me. This is not a male only issue. While you can certainly argue that female augmentation is exclusively due to a male gaze effect, it's a stupid argument that pins everything on the patriarchy instead of individual choices.
 
2013-07-08 04:04:04 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Mike_LowELL: "Culture of misogyny" riles up more emotion and pageclicks than "video game industry doesn't make anything which isn't a brown modern shooter these days".

how many brown people in this game?

[img839.imageshack.us image 720x466]


Methinks he meant DOOM/Rage/etc... You know, games with nothing but brown crap everywhere.
 
2013-07-08 04:04:36 PM  

Iblis824: Easy there champ. He means the color filters, not the people in it.


Why would anyone use a brown color filter?

It would mar the pasty whiteness!

img585.imageshack.us


mmmm pasty whiteness..
 
2013-07-08 04:07:31 PM  

Theaetetus: That doesn't mean Nilin's sex wasn't on other people's minds, though. By the time Remember Me was shown to prospective publishers, it was too late to change Nilin from a woman to a man, and this was enough to cause potential backers to abstain from publishing the game. "We had some that said, 'Well, we don't want to publish it because that's not going to succeed. You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the Report. "For example, the popular FemShep protagonist of the Mass Effect series was really a guy with breast implants."


I think I've found the male counterpart of Sarkeesian. Whenever you include a female character, they're either wrong, or not female enough.
 
2013-07-08 04:11:06 PM  

Kinek: Theaetetus: That doesn't mean Nilin's sex wasn't on other people's minds, though. By the time Remember Me was shown to prospective publishers, it was too late to change Nilin from a woman to a man, and this was enough to cause potential backers to abstain from publishing the game. "We had some that said, 'Well, we don't want to publish it because that's not going to succeed. You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the Report. "For example, the popular FemShep protagonist of the Mass Effect series was really a guy with breast implants."

I think I've found the male counterpart of Sarkeesian. Whenever you include a female character, they're either wrong, or not female enough.


Yeah, that's a serious WTF. FemShep is very distinctly female in behavior as well as appearance.
 
2013-07-08 04:11:11 PM  

serial_crusher: I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this "a female protagonist is so controversial" thing seems a little bit manufactured.


Seriously. I think that in terms of content, video games are pretty analogous to action movies. There are way more games with female main characters than there are action movies with female main characters. In fact, the only two examples of action movies with female main characters that I can think of right now are based off of video games to begin with. Oh, but it's the video games that are backwards.
 
2013-07-08 04:13:18 PM  
Cyberpunk... a literary movement of the 1980's with a surprisingly small number of suicides.

I don't know what they think they're doing. Apart from using someone else's terms to their corporate agenda.
 
2013-07-08 04:17:45 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Iblis824: Easy there champ. He means the color filters, not the people in it.

Why would anyone use a brown color filter?

It would mar the pasty whiteness!

[img585.imageshack.us image 640x480]


mmmm pasty whiteness..


Ahh, but see it with the brown filters:

www.lcahouston.com
 
2013-07-08 04:18:08 PM  

ikanreed: poot_rootbeer: Aerith, Blaze, Chell, Chun Li,  Lara, Rikku, Samus, Sonya, Tifa, Yuna...

Now that we've knocked off those from foreign developers, because different countries have different gender role problems(I'm looking at you Other M), we're left with one character.  Who never talks.


image.gamespotcdn.net
 
2013-07-08 04:24:11 PM  

ikanreed: different countries have different gender role problems(I'm looking at you Other M),


I heard the title is actually an abbreviation of "Other Malkevich".

we're left with one character.  Who never talks.

Does it help at all that the chatty mostly-antagonist heard throughout the Portal games is also female?
 
2013-07-08 04:24:11 PM  

ikanreed: poot_rootbeer: Aerith, Blaze, Chell, Chun Li,  Lara, Rikku, Samus, Sonya, Tifa, Yuna...

Now that we've knocked off those from foreign developers, because different countries have different gender role problems(I'm looking at you Other M), we're left with one character.  Who never talks.


Given that Capcom is Japanese, and Dontnod is French, I guess we can count out Remember Me's lead as well, despite being the point of the article.
 
2013-07-08 04:27:31 PM  

Kinek: Theaetetus: That doesn't mean Nilin's sex wasn't on other people's minds, though. By the time Remember Me was shown to prospective publishers, it was too late to change Nilin from a woman to a man, and this was enough to cause potential backers to abstain from publishing the game. "We had some that said, 'Well, we don't want to publish it because that's not going to succeed. You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the Report. "For example, the popular FemShep protagonist of the Mass Effect series was really a guy with breast implants."

I think I've found the male counterpart of Sarkeesian. Whenever you include a female character, they're either wrong, or not female enough.


I think I've found someone with a broken sarcasm meter.

/one would think the other two posts would have been sufficient notice
 
2013-07-08 04:29:33 PM  

poot_rootbeer: ikanreed: different countries have different gender role problems(I'm looking at you Other M),

I heard the title is actually an abbreviation of "Other Malkevich".

we're left with one character.  Who never talks.

Does it help at all that the chatty mostly-antagonist heard throughout the Portal games is also female?


I should be fair, I've actually been rather impressed with Valve in general for diversity(Team fortress 2 and their "50's ad atheistic" aside).  I don't consider portal an especially poor example, just that on the level, male is a far-and-above the "default" for everything.   Having an identity is important for being a character.  Chell and Freeman aren't really characters so much as avatars.  Lots of (U.S.) games have lots of chatty male leads.  That's simply less common for female leads by a staggering percentage.
 
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