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(Salon)   The Pope says that if priests want to drive fancy cars, they should "think about how many children are dying of hunger in the world." I give him six months to a year   (salon.com) divider line 145
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7101 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 11:21:39 AM
23 votes:
you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.
2013-07-08 12:21:22 PM
14 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: No, he's telling his UNDERLINGS to think about what they're doing. He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.


He has. Aside from his not using the normal papal residence and eschewing the normal ostentatious Papal garb, while he was Archbishop, he lived pretty humbly, did all his chores himself instead of having an underling do them for him, and rode a bike or took a bus to work.

You're not going to change an institution like the Catholic Church overnight. You have to start somewhere, and leading by example, from the Papacy down to a local parish priest is a good way to start.
2013-07-08 01:56:52 PM
11 votes:
The Vatican has been a corrupt institution for how long?

This guy's been Pope for how long?

I think his pace is lightning fast so far, considering those two factors alone.
2013-07-08 02:45:24 PM
7 votes:

CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


That's fine, then keep it in the church. It's when he and many, many other christians use their influence to actually get anti-homosexual laws established that people get upset about.

No one is campaigning rabbis to let Jews eat pork, but if a Rabbi started to push to make pork illegal for everyone, then you'd have a problem.
2013-07-08 02:38:56 PM
6 votes:
I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.
2013-07-08 12:14:49 PM
6 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Aarontology: The My Little Pony Killer: This. They need to learn that they must start with themselves if they want anybody else to take their crap seriously.

That's what he's advocating, dude.

No, he's telling his UNDERLINGS to think about what they're doing. He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.

Otherwise, it's just a bunch of "do as I say, not as I do" hot air that we've been hearing from popes since the beginning of popedom.


Well he's not living in the fancy papal house and he's driving around a Ford Focus.

But I do agree that simply not using the fancy stuff doesn't accomplish very much. The luxuries are still there, they're just gathering dust instead of being used.
2013-07-08 12:19:07 PM
5 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.


i believe he is leading by example. didn't he eschew the fancy papal residence? and i do think he is calling for a thorough independent investigation of the vatican bank. it's not much, but it's something. and it's significant.
2013-07-08 12:01:29 PM
5 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: This. They need to learn that they must start with themselves if they want anybody else to take their crap seriously.


That's what he's advocating, dude.
2013-07-08 11:39:25 AM
5 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


If it weren't for some of his comments about gay marriage and adoption, I might agree with you
2013-07-08 02:50:22 PM
4 votes:
torr5962:
Catholic Church was never about helping the poor; it was only about spreading the religion. Look at Mother Theresa.

Glad to see this Pope is attempting to be different.


I dunno.  I went to a catholic soup kitchen in LA a couple months ago for volunteering.  Been there a few times.  People line up and get fed.  No literature, no sermonizing.  Other than the name on the door denoting some affiliation and a cross on the wall I think in the serving area.  I'm not sure how any person who was eating there would have had any idea its a catholic charity.

Catholics can be easily criticized about many things, but being aggressive missionaries in the modern period is not one of them.
2013-07-08 02:41:16 PM
4 votes:
Count me among those atheists that think this guy is alright, as far as Popes go. It'll be interesting to see how his papacy plays out, but I'm heartened that he seems compassionate and that he embraces a large amount of humanistic values.
2013-07-08 02:35:48 PM
4 votes:
That is a huge problem that I have with ministers and preachers.  Like that TD Jakes person.  When someone told me that he lives in a mansion and has a bunch of cars, my first question was "So, there are no homeless people in his town and no starving children?"  The answer was no.

I'm not saying that ministers and other church leaders should live in poverty, but at the same time, they shouldn't drive high end luxury cars and live in mansions and wear Rolex watches if there are people hitting up the food banks, living on the streets etc...  They need to be setting the example by giving to the community, not hoarding it all.
2013-07-08 02:35:22 PM
4 votes:
This is exactly the Pope needed to help the Church survive.

More focus on helping those in need; less focus on anything sexual.  Between pedophile priests, a disproportionate amount of time spent waging war on homosexuality and an almost Victorian viewpoint on sexuality in general (particularly in contraception) the Church has become ridiculously obsessed with sex.
2013-07-08 02:29:57 PM
4 votes:

DammitIForgotMyLogin: If it weren't for some of his comments about gay marriage and adoption, I might agree with you


The Catholic church won't change their stance on that...but for the head honcho of the Catholic church, he's an improvement.
2013-07-08 11:46:06 AM
4 votes:
I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public
2013-07-08 04:09:36 PM
3 votes:

raerae1980: dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public

Oh my gosh I would LOVE that!!!!     Might be enough of a draw to bring me back to the Vatican.   Honestly, they should do a start-over with their museum, as well.   How about labeling things, giving a provenance to those artifacts, loaning out objects to other museums...the Vatican does none of that.   Pissed me off as an archaeologist....


IBM digitized almost the entire Vatican Library collection a decade aago and the Vatican has it available online now.
2013-07-08 03:00:52 PM
3 votes:

WippitGuud: Yes.
But the majority of posters on Fark (and in the political tab) tend to be American. A Jew is from Israel. A Muslim is from the Middle East. A Catholic is that guy down the street. He's fair game, can't be called racists for attacking him.


I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone, except the Zionists, and they do get lots of shiat in every Israel thread..  Muslims are a pretty amorphous group.  Lots of the individual middle Muslim groups get attacked but there's not really a single guy who represents the Muslim world the same way the Pope represents Catholics.
2013-07-08 02:56:05 PM
3 votes:

Nabb1: Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


What would you think of Microsoft if it was well documented that their executives were molesting children and instead of having them arrested or even fired, they were simply relocated around so they couldn't get caught? What would you think of people who knew about this but still gave them money? Would people who were opposed to these practices be called bigots, anti-Microsites?
2013-07-08 02:50:48 PM
3 votes:

SirEattonHogg: So, what's your next complaint, the pedo priests?  Because the pope mobile and Vatican treasures is not your strongest argument against the church.


Isn't there something in the Bible about a rich man and a camel and the eye of a needle? Why do they have all that shiat in the first place?  There's also a line about how you should pray by yourself in private and not make a big spectacle about it.

I'm not just picking on the Catholics, most religious people are hypocritical. Except maybe the Amish but all I know about them is what I saw from "Witness" and "Kingpin".
2013-07-08 02:42:51 PM
3 votes:

CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.
2013-07-08 02:41:33 PM
3 votes:
the My Little Pony Killer:Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people


I think this pope would be more than happy to drive around in a Fiat or take the bus, but like a lot of politicians or public figures, people tend to want to kill/kidnap such persons - hence the bulletproof car.  What's so hard for you to understand?

And I believe is a donation, although I could be wrong on that.

As for the jewel-encrusted city, well, you're free to visit it anytime and see a lot of it.  Like any president or state leader, he can't sell the house or administration center he lives in (and the furniture in it) and pocket the proceeds.  There is also certainly a valid argument that having such treasures in Vatican hands is probably the best bet for Joe Schmoe ever seeing it - you know, like a museum?

If they sold it - it would probably just go into private wealthy hands and you'd never know its existence again.

So, what's your next complaint, the pedo priests?  Because the pope mobile and Vatican treasures is not your strongest argument against the church.
2013-07-08 02:39:39 PM
3 votes:
Did the college even know what Jesuit meant when they elected this guy?
2013-07-08 02:38:31 PM
3 votes:

dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public


The Vatican Library, like *every other research library in Europe* is a closed collection, and you need credentials for access. Biatch about the British Library too, then, or learn about things before you shoot off your mouth.
2013-07-08 02:35:04 PM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


^^^

The church should be doing good for people rather than condemning them for being wretched sinners.

More Jesus. Less Leviticus.
2013-07-08 01:52:24 PM
3 votes:
i hope his next trick is putting cardinal dolan's head on a farking spike.
2013-07-08 01:25:14 PM
3 votes:

raerae1980: dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public

Oh my gosh I would LOVE that!!!!     Might be enough of a draw to bring me back to the Vatican.   Honestly, they should do a start-over with their museum, as well.   How about labeling things, giving a provenance to those artifacts, loaning out objects to other museums...the Vatican does none of that.   Pissed me off as an archaeologist....


Actually, I've seen several shows based on Vadican artifacts loans.
2013-07-08 12:53:49 PM
3 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people


He's lived a very austere life by pope standards, even since being elevated.
2013-07-08 12:03:10 PM
3 votes:

dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public


Oh my gosh I would LOVE that!!!!     Might be enough of a draw to bring me back to the Vatican.   Honestly, they should do a start-over with their museum, as well.   How about labeling things, giving a provenance to those artifacts, loaning out objects to other museums...the Vatican does none of that.   Pissed me off as an archaeologist....
2013-07-08 11:39:48 AM
3 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


Yeah, I'm a fan of that aspect of his papacy as well.
2013-07-08 11:30:51 AM
3 votes:
Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people
2013-07-08 11:48:01 PM
2 votes:
So many here seem to think 2,000 years of ever growing bureaucracy and rules can be changed overnight.
2013-07-08 09:37:06 PM
2 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: Infernalist: Get off your Priestly asses and do more for your 'flock' or continue to be mocked and ridiculed as moral hypocrites who expect a pat on the back for donating a few bucks to the poor.

Can you even acknowledge that the Catholic Church DOES, in fact, "get off their asses" and do more for the poor and the needy than any other institution on the planet?

Sure, there is always more that could be done, but can you even acknowledge the breadth and scope of what they do, and the degree to which they already do more and have been for centuries?

I may not agree with the Catholics on a lot of things, but saying they don't help the poor is just spectacularly wrong and ignorant. Can you at least acknowledge that?


If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd know that I have, repeatedly, acknowledged that the CC has done a lot for the poor.  But, that does NOT justify their stingy efforts in doing so.  The CC is one of the richest organizations in the world AND...they have a stated duty and responsibility to the poor of the world.  They not just acknowledge this, but they claim it, daily, as their duty to do so...

And yet, they do in such limited ways as to inspire nothing but despair and cynicism.  They have BILLIONS of dollars in currency that they absolutely refuse to come clean about.  They have BILLIONS of dollars more in actual real estate that has NOTHING to do with religious sites whatsoever.  They own ISLANDS that they treat as vacation resorts for their hierarchy.  They own billions more in gaudy religious trappings that serve only their own pride and a handful of prideful worshipers.

They are quite literally the acknowledged steward of the poor of this world, but their actual efforts pale in comparison to what they COULD DO if they would just...DO IT.

They could if they truly wanted to do it, but they clearly and plainly DON'T want to do it.

And 'that' is why I ridicule them and mock them and scorn their hypocritical pope.

He is identical to the brash CEO who makes much noise about how he's donating his entire yearly salary of $1 million dollars to charity...neglecting to mention that he's making $200 million in stock options and bonuses for the year.
2013-07-08 09:19:18 PM
2 votes:
Lots of angry apologists in here expecting the rest of us to be happy with empty gestures and happy happy noises coming from the Pope's 'suck hole' as someone above put it so quaintly.

Here's the short of it, gentlemen: The Catholic Church does a lot of good, but not nearly enough for the amount of wealth it has and the moral high that it has historically claimed.

It claims to be the Voice of God on Earth, infallible in matters of Divine intention, but you seem to think that throwing a few million at poverty when you have 'billions upon billions' in revenue and private property, is an okay thing.

Well, as long as those old bastards wrap themselves in silks and eat off golden plates and sit in golden thrones, they have zero credibility when it comes to 'the poor'.  They surround themselves with opulence and decadence and speak of the value of 'pageantry'...as if that means a damned thing to starving people or sickly people, or homeless people.

Get off your Priestly asses and do more for your 'flock' or continue to be mocked and ridiculed as moral hypocrites who expect a pat on the back for donating a few bucks to the poor.
2013-07-08 07:18:23 PM
2 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Metaluna Mutant: farm9.staticflickr.com

[catholicstand.com image 640x383]

Francis doesn't do the gold throne thing. He doesn't even do the gold cross thing. Or the fancy flowers. He doesn't even live in the official Papal apartments, he lives in a guest room in a separate building.


Unless he's had that golden throne sold or melted down and sold off to get more money to use to care for the poor, then it's simply an empty gesture.

That throne is sitting somewhere in some room getting dusty waiting on the next pope who doesn't feel the need to make an empty gesture to the poor.
2013-07-08 05:02:34 PM
2 votes:

MooseUpNorth: Pray 4 Mojo: Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.

Agreed. If this really is Catholicism, it's an utter first in my experience.


I'd almost be willing to bet hard money--especially if that "Bible study" involves the Alpha Course or something similar--that we're in fact dealing with a church that is functionally Catholic In Name Only and in fact has been steeplejacked--taken over from within--by NARasitic dominionists (the Alpha Course would be a dead giveaway with that, there's a few other courses used in "Adult bible studies" and similar lay ministries that also tend to be a dead giveaway).

Basically, Catholic churches have been very aggressively targeted by NARasite neopentecostals (particularly the Assemblies of God and their daughter denominations like Vineyard and "nondenominational" NARasitic megachurches) for the better part of fifty years running, and the typical method of "takeover from within" is getting a few NARasites to join a Catholic church (or converting people who are already members--interestingly enough, anti-reproductive-health circles tend to be popular cross-fertilisation ground for this sort of thing due to the mix of conservative Catholics and Protestant dominionists), and those "NARasitised Catholics" from there tend to start lay ministries designed to pretty much indoctrinate members into NARasite theology.

Singapore and Latin America in particular have had a bad problem with this, and even parts of the US do (to the point that IMNSHO any "Catholic Charismatic" group should be treated as NARasitic until proven otherwise)--and seriously, the sort of thing that the original poster (with the obnoxiously religiomaniac friend) is sufficiently "out there" in comparison to traditional Catholicism that I have to seriously think he's either gotten in with a steeplejacked Catholic church or a Catholic church in the process of being steeplejacked (probably one with a very non-negligible percentage of "Catholic Charismatics", at that).

/full disclosure--have been working with a non-dominionist ecumenical group on a "How to prevent hostile takeovers by dominionists" seminar for clergy
//would strongly recommend the OP to read John Dorhauer's "Steeplejacking" for an example of how ONE dominionist group (the IRD) does it; pretty much all the explicitly NARasitic groups do it the same way and have been doing it considerably longer than the IRD
2013-07-08 05:00:32 PM
2 votes:
EFFIN' A, FRANCIS!

Former Catholic, now humanist/agnostic/whatever who shows up on Ash Wednesday... but goddammit*, THIS is the church I knew growing up.  Then our pastor fell in love with a woman and we got the equivalent of a gold-digger to replace him (middle class Detroit suburb gold digger, but still, had to have his house all remodeled, fired any long term staff, started cutting back on masses, etc... last I heard he "merged" effing Midnight Mass with another parish.  The parish was pretty respectable, parishioner number wise - lots of Polish, Irish, Filipino, Vietmanese immigrants and their descendents attending, never an empty pew although maybe a few seats here and there - but he's pretty determined to run it into the ground).

But still.  There's a reason I chose Claire as my confirmation name, despite the Breakfast Club.

Keep going in the right direction, man.

* ah, the guilt about using goddammit talking about the church makes a girl think she never left!
2013-07-08 04:52:52 PM
2 votes:

Yogimus: Priest buys mercedes for 35,000. Mercedes gets sold, and a long stream of people continue to be employed. They then buy goods, and utilize services that employ OTHER people... versus Priest gives 15,000 to a soup kitchen... feeds people.


Or priest gives the money to a charity that helps people get back on their feet and helps them become employable and find jobs. Or to a charity that builds wells for villages or brings computers to areas without this opportunity for education. No need to single out this one charity to compare against ... unless that's the only one that fits the propaganda you want to spread.

Of course, "just feeding people" isn't a horrible thing either.
2013-07-08 04:43:15 PM
2 votes:

Nabb1: CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.

Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Ehh. we Catholics, being the world Majority world religion are big boys and can stand a little bashing, especially when not a little of it is well deserved.  I've always said a patriot owes his country nothing less than a passionate, informed,  and vigiliant skepticism of his government's every action; and I feel the same way about someone who want to declare themselves a devout adherent to a religion.   Especially when it comes to the earthly actions of that faith
2013-07-08 04:24:37 PM
2 votes:

Infernalist: How many nations were pillaged for that treasure trove, I wonder.


Wonder no more. Do some research. Enlighten us about how much of the Vatican's treasures were the result of plunder in the last 500 years. And to be sure we are being fair, let's compare that with say the Louvre, and the London Museum.

monkey_licker: I'd just like to expand the conversation beyond Catholicism because of my feelings about the issues of inequality in general, and how various religions deal with it specifically. I also think the conversation needs to go beyond clergy/priest/pastor/rabbi/guru to the laity. It is easy to sit back and let the "paid" staff do the hard work while we live in comfort and wealth. We are the Church as a body, not just the people on staff. It is our responsibility, not theirs.


I completely agree with this notion of the responsibility of Christians as individuals. As near as I have been able to determine, Christ repeatedly told his followers to give of themselves directly, and to give the shirt off their own backs, not to see to it that "someone" does the right thing. But tithing, or giving to the church is an effective and pragmatic way to do the greatest good by pooling the resources of the faithful. You and I may each be able to cover the cost of a needy families' medication, but if a whole bunch of us pool money together, the church can build a hospital. And that is a much greater good. The two are not mutually exclusive, of course, and individually, a Christina is called to do both.

Christ was very clear that money doesn't mean shiat, and that you should use your prosperity to help those less fortunate, And that insomuch as all success is by the grace of god, you don't "own" that success, anyway and should give of it freely.  What I find particularly maddening and frankly disgusting are the money priests peddling the notion that "accepting Jesus into your heart" will lead to financial success. This seems to be the very epitome of "false prophets leading the sheep astray", not to mention a terrible notion for society.

monkey_licker: And while I understand that the pope doesn't own the things he uses, he presents a powerful image in eschewing the trappings of wealth that have attended his position. It forces people to take a step back and engage in a bit of self examination. It may not make a substantive difference, but symbolism can be powerful in its own right.


The opulence of the Papacy *IS* certainly symbolic, but I'm not sure it is symbolic of what you may think it is. Not to get all theological, but every Catholic knows that the Pope is in the trappings of the CHURCH, and the Church is a vast and powerful entity as befits the emissary of the almighty. The pageantry and tradition and accumulated grandiosity of two millennia serve to illustrate the majesty of the Church of Peter. And it truly is awe inspiring if you have ever been there. It unequivocally re-enforces the idea that  all things are possible when the effort is directed toward the glory of god. It is supposed to be spectacular, and awesome, and beyond the every day.

But it is the Church, not the man. And that is an extremely important distinction that the Catholic church is very careful about, and that these carnival prosperity preachers fundamentally misunderstand and distort.
2013-07-08 04:20:34 PM
2 votes:

torr5962: Catholic Church was never about helping the poor; it was only about spreading the religion. Look at Mother Theresa.

Glad to see this Pope is attempting to be different.


Step away from the Christopher Hitchens and take a deep breath.  You may disagree with her methods, you may not like that she prostelytized, but until YOU give a leper a spange bath with your own two hands, you cannot say she didn't care about the poor.   There is a reason the Poor of Calcutta jammed the streets for miles during her funeral, and it's not because they felt she didn;t give a fark about her.

/ met Mother Teresa once, briefly, had a quality about her I've only ever seen in two other people, and one of them was the Dalai Lama
2013-07-08 03:34:13 PM
2 votes:

FlashHarry: The My Little Pony Killer: He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.

i believe he is leading by example. didn't he eschew the fancy papal residence? and i do think he is calling for a thorough independent investigation of the vatican bank. it's not much, but it's something. and it's significant.


Too many people want ALL OF IT, RIGHT NOW, instead of understanding that a favorable drift in policy/behavior is actually much better in the long run, on pretty much any social policy.
2013-07-08 03:22:45 PM
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).


Just FTR, Catholics don't "find Jesus" - that's an evangelical thing. One of the key differences between Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity is in fact the insistence by evangelicals on having a "personal relationship with Jesus," which runs counter to Catholics needing to attend Mass communally and having the priest as intercessor. Catholics also commonly refer to "Christ," rather than "Jesus." And Tuesday night Bible studies is definitely not a done thing for adults; in fact, any formal religious study by adults is generally done only by those converting. Kids are rather the recipients of Catholic religious indoctrination, through after-school or weekend classes if they don't attend parochial schools, because a certain amount of education is required before one can receive the sacraments of Holy Communion and Confirmation.
2013-07-08 02:56:00 PM
2 votes:

Aarontology: WippitGuud: scottydoesntknow: That's fine, then keep it in the church. It's when he and many, many other christians use their influence to actually get anti-homosexual laws established that people get upset about.

Anyone have a chart of which christian denomination most Republicans are? Honestly, I'd be shocked if the majority was Catholic.

Protestantism in general (Mainly because the US is mostly Protestant) made up of various sects. If I had to guess, I would guess Baptists, Pentecostals, and the non denominational evangelicals.

As a side note, the single largest denomination in the US is Catholicism, then Baptists, then atheists (not to say atheism is a religion, i don't want to have that debate, but interns of what people believe when it comes to religion)


Historically, Catholics tend to vote Democratic.  I think that still holds, but I don't think the margin is enormously wide.
2013-07-08 02:52:05 PM
2 votes:

Glitchwerks: One of the popes got an Enzo when it was produced.


Yeah. About that....

Ferrari's 400th Enzo, which it originally donated to Pope John Paul II before his death, has been sold by Ferrari at Sotheby's to an unnamed American rich dude for $1.1 million, twice the going rate. The company then gave the money to Pope Benedict XVI for humanitarian relief.
2013-07-08 02:51:56 PM
2 votes:

CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


A. They are the largest single religious denomination on the planet. In so being, they are the most visible and the most vocal.
B. They have been rocked by serious scandals in the past twenty years, which makes them seem quite hypocritical.
C. Catholics aren't going to murder you if you insult the Pope.
D. Plenty of other Christian denominations are insulted for their beliefs, though these are mainly thrown at "Christians" or "evangelicals" in general, rather than the particular denomination to which the insulted people belong.
2013-07-08 02:43:34 PM
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people


Um, Francis doesn't like using the popemobile; he also doesn't wear gem encrusted mitres. He doesn't wear the prauda shoes either. He refuses to live in the papal apartments.

I know, I know; give all the money to the poor. For one; the church's real wealth isn't in gold, it's in property. There are over 300 Catholic Churches just in Rome. Most have been around longer than the United States; for lack of a better term, they've become sacred cows.

The Vatican has billions in paintings, tapestries, sculptures, ect; it would take decades or centuries to sell it all. Plus, the art community would shiat a brick if so much as one master work was put into a private collection, never to be seen again. And many of the pieces have religious significance. Could you imagine if some Saudi prince bought michelangelo's pieta and took a shiat on the Virgin Mary's chest?
2013-07-08 02:41:00 PM
2 votes:
The more I hear from this Pope the more I respect him.

/I bet he'll never come up for sainthood
2013-07-08 02:37:14 PM
2 votes:

Yogimus: Explain to me how driving Yugos will feed the starving masses.


Consider the following 2 examples:

Priest buys a new Mercedes for 35,000.

Priest buys a new Chevy for 15,000, and donates 15,000 to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

That's how.
2013-07-08 02:36:43 PM
2 votes:
What surprises me is how little effect(maybe, just maybe, affect too?) having the pope swing from radical conservative to moderate progressive has on the membership of the church.  If the pope is the representation of god's will on earth, wouldn't your faith be shaken by such dramatic mood swings?

//But I don't really understand religion to begin with.
2013-07-08 02:33:20 PM
2 votes:

Ambivalence: The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people

He's lived a very austere life by pope standards, even since being elevated.


In his day to day pope stuff, he drives a Ford Focus.
2013-07-08 11:54:39 AM
2 votes:

dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public


ok, dan brown...
2013-07-08 11:43:10 AM
2 votes:
imageshack.us

Good luck with that image overhaul Popey.
2013-07-09 09:01:33 AM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Speaking only for myself, my bias against the Catholic church, and a great many Catholics, is the the direct result of having been raised Catholic. This includes, but is not limited to, being the product of an illegal adoption carried out by a Catholic 'charity' in Ireland. Later awareness of pedophile priests, sadistic nuns, hoarding of wealth, strong arm fund raising tactics, and the Magdalene Laundries as carried out by the Church itself, and a closed social structure (Catholics only willing to socialize and do business with other Catholics) and the sense of superiority of being part of the 'One True Religion' by fosters in the membership hasn't helped.

What you call bigotry, I call familiarity.
2013-07-08 11:43:08 PM
1 votes:

CowboyJeff: No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?


I don't hate the Catholics.  I just think their pope is a retarded son of a biatch that actually has the nerve to travel to Africa, (starring AIDS and starvation) and tell them that using condoms is a sin.  But I don't hate the retarded.  I realize that they have an affliction that causes this behavior to emerge.  Sexual harassment of minors and the systemic cover up operations are also considered really bad, FYI.  So there's a few things the Jews don't have going for them.
2013-07-08 10:07:41 PM
1 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: MrEricSir: Understand now, or do we have to go through all this again?

Duly noted. Have a wonderful evening.

Infernalist: If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd know that I have, repeatedly, acknowledged that the CC has done a lot for the poor.

But, not actually, you know. More than anyone else anywhere by a wide margin? Can't quite bring yourself to actually say it? Does it somehow hurt your narrative of "stingy"? I don't see why it would, but you know better than I.

Infernalist: They are quite literally the acknowledged steward of the poor of this world, but their actual efforts pale in comparison to what they COULD DO if they would just...DO IT.

Is there not also an obligation to protect and preserve some of the finest examples of human achievement the world has ever seen? Should all that be liquidated and melted to scrap? Is there no purpose for art and grandeur that elevates the spirit and inspires? Better to convert it to cash and pay out the poor, I guess.

Infernalist: And yet, they do in such limited ways as to inspire nothing but despair and cynicism.

I have no doubt that you see it that way, As I said upthread, some people are just absolutely perfectly certain in their disdain for the Catholic Church, and no one, not even my own brilliant little ol' self can penetrate that kind of prejudice.

So I will leave you to your strongly held convictions about the Catholic Church.

No need to respond further, but if you follow the established Fark pattern, I'm, sure you will need to post the last word, declare victory, maybe throw in an insult, or whatever else you kids need to do. feel free.

Have a great evening.


Does the truth hurt that bad?

Explain to me, if you wish, why they 'need' billions of dollars in currency and non-religious real estate.  Explain to me why they knowingly accumulate wealth when Christ himself said that it's easier for a camel to walk through the head of a needle than for a rich man to achieve Heaven?

Yes, they do a lot of good, but not nearly as much as they could if they sincerely clung to Christ's teachings regarding wealth.

And that's my biggest problem.  They claim a great authority and moral position in the world and they neglect the very flock that they claim to love.

They should be BETTER THAN THAT.  And that's why I scorn them.

Now, if you consider that an insult, so be it.
2013-07-08 10:01:49 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.

Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Catholics take flak for calling themselves Christian both from people of another/no faith, and also from Christians who don't identify as Catholic.  All Christians expect a certain amount of opposition from the moment they begin entertaining the notion of a deity, but Catholics have to answer for the actions and attitudes of The Roman Catholic Church as well.  The church long ago convinced Catholics that its officers can elevate people to sainthood, and that the opinions of whoever leads it at any time truly carry weight in heaven.  This makes it very difficult for many to see the massive wealth the church has accumulated, the ongoing scandals that accompany the church wherever it goes, even the very vanity of claiming to represent god on earth in the same light as a non-Catholic.
2013-07-08 09:28:21 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Get off your Priestly asses and do more for your 'flock' or continue to be mocked and ridiculed as moral hypocrites who expect a pat on the back for donating a few bucks to the poor.


Can you even acknowledge that the Catholic Church DOES, in fact, "get off their asses" and do more for the poor and the needy than any other institution on the planet?

Sure, there is always more that could be done, but can you even acknowledge the breadth and scope of what they do, and the degree to which they already do more and have been for centuries?

I may not agree with the Catholics on a lot of things, but saying they don't help the poor is just spectacularly wrong and ignorant. Can you at least acknowledge that?
2013-07-08 09:23:26 PM
1 votes:

MrEricSir: Funny, I never made a single claim that you're attributing to me. Might want to try Hooked On Phonics, I hear the helps a lot of people learn to read.


Having not read the thread, you will doubtless not have noticed that I have repeated that response to people who keep parroting the inane argument that the Vatican should sell off it's assets.

I claimed you would be satisfied with no less than for the Catholic Church is to liquidate in its entirety  BECAUSE you said, (and I'm quoting YOU here):

MrEricSir: Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.


So maybe you could learn to do some memorization exercises so you can remember your own posts more than 20 minutes later.
2013-07-08 07:35:44 PM
1 votes:

Man On Pink Corner: Talk is cheap.


Pope Francis lives it. He's always lived simply, as cardinal he lived in a small apartment and cooked his own meals instead of living in the rather lavish residence he could've lived in as Cardinal. He took the bus instead of being driven around. Now as Pope he dresses in the simplest white vestments, lives in a small guest room instead of the Papal apartments. He's not trying to hold anyone to a standard he himself isn't living.

Infernalist: Unless he's had that golden throne sold or melted down and sold off to get more money to use to care for the poor, then it's simply an empty gesture.


It's not an empty gesture, he's setting the tone he expects all priests to live by. And right now he's got the Vatican bank to deal with overhauling and other pressing matters to deal with. Like the Curia, about whom it appears he does not want much to do.
2013-07-08 06:56:34 PM
1 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Abortion has been around for a few thousand years. It was readily available 200 years ago. It wasn't until the 1830s or thereabouts that the first moves to curtail emerged in the US.


Yes it was. And? I'm still failing to see how it is anyone's responsibility to provide contraception and abortion as an effective means of lifting people out of poverty on par with, say, education.

And if the argument is that child birthing and rearing is an impediment to financial success, I would posit that the Catholic Church would say that material wealth is not the true measure of success, far from it, and that they already advocate a lifestyle and behavior that protects women against both unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

WhyteRaven74: Oh and Jesus knew about abortion, it was covered by Jewish law in his day, and funny enough he said nothing about that particular bit of the law.


Not particularly odd. There are any number of laws that Jesus didn't call out for special comment. I believe the general take is that things left unsaid by Jesus should not be considered an endorsement for or against. As I recall, he said something about generally letting the existing laws stand? I'm sure with your knowledge of these things, you know the scripture.

FWIW, The Catholic Doctrine, does allow for efforts to save the life of the mother that may cause the death of an unborn child, but under very specific restrictions and requirements must be met. "Attending physicians must do everything in their power to save both the mother and the child. If the physicians decide that, in the case of an ectopic pregnancy, the mother's life can only be saved by the removal of the Fallopian tube (and with it, the preborn baby), or by removal of some other tissue essential for the preborn baby's life, the baby will of course die. But this kind of surgery would not be categorized as an abortion. This is all the difference between deliberate murder (abortion) and unintentional natural death."

If you are interested, there is a detailed explanation here.
2013-07-08 06:42:37 PM
1 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: I only ask because prior to the introduction of the pill in1960 and abortion in 1973,


Abortion has been around for a few thousand years. It was readily available 200 years ago. It wasn't until the 1830s or thereabouts that the first moves to curtail emerged in the US. Oh and Jesus knew about abortion, it was covered by Jewish law in his day, and funny enough he said nothing about that particular bit of the law. Which for the curious said that if a woman's health is put at risk but being pregnant she could get an abortion. If her life was threatened by being pregnant she would get an abortion.
2013-07-08 06:40:59 PM
1 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Prayer of St. Francis (we sang this *a lot* growing up)


LOL. Me and all. It's a good one.

Kurt Vonnegut:

About belief or lack of belief in an afterlife: Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
I am a humanist, which mean, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"
I myself have written, "If it weren't for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake."


I often refer to myself as an "atheist/recovering Catholic" but "humanist" is a much better description.

/I miss Kurt.
2013-07-08 06:37:40 PM
1 votes:

Metaluna Mutant: farm9.staticflickr.com


catholicstand.com

Francis doesn't do the gold throne thing. He doesn't even do the gold cross thing. Or the fancy flowers. He doesn't even live in the official Papal apartments, he lives in a guest room in a separate building.
2013-07-08 05:33:42 PM
1 votes:
It will take far, far more for me to see Catholicism in a positive light, but this new guy has a lot of potential.
I hope he isn't assassinated.
2013-07-08 05:30:14 PM
1 votes:
StreetlightInTheGhetto:
Kurt Vonnegut:

About belief or lack of belief in an afterlife: Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
I am a humanist, which mean, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"
I myself have written, "If it weren't for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake."


C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
2013-07-08 05:18:23 PM
1 votes:
Many of the Catholic bashers here are posting here purely to vent their spleen and there is no changing their minds. I am reminded of an old close friend of mine who was dutifully young*and atheist and leftist and anti-religion and anti-Catholic in particular, who had an oversized case of the hates for the Catholic church, declaring them to be "The single greatest evil force in the world today, and responsible for most of the problems in the world today". Of course, there wasn't any real demonstration of this with comparisons, facts, etc. so much as vehement certitude. No sense talking to him, that's just how he saw it.**

So I get some of the rage and Catholic hate bashing. I even get the misdirected anger at the Catholic Church for the actions of various protestant churches by people who can't effectively differentiate. We were all young once.

But it is pointless, boring, and sad to see so many people who, when presented with a Pope, and even a church that actually DOES practice what it preaches, and actually DOES care for the poor and the needy and the downtrodden, continue to attack a church that does all of these things more often and on a larger scale and for longer than almost any other institution known to man.

I get that there are valid criticisms of the RCC, and even of the Papacy and the Vatican. Absolutely. But saying that the Catholic Church doesn't care for the needy and the hungry and the sick and the uneducated all over the world is just plain stupid. All people saying that are doing is showing everyone else on the thread that they are either staggeringly ignorant, or disturbingly blinded by their own prejudice.

/* Teenagers and college students. No one is more vehement and opinionated and downright certain. Even when we were being assholes.
/** Well, How he saw it until he met and married a Catholic girl, and then he re-discovered that he had been Catholic all along, had never said a bad word about his the church of Rome and extolled the virtues of the Church. I was at his son' christening last year. What a difference a few decades can make on someone's perspective.
2013-07-08 05:10:56 PM
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: dmcman73: He's walking the walk so far....

How about liquidating 10% of the vast wealth of the vatican and using the money to help child rape victims. That would be a start ... and might help some of the churches victims who will be suffering for the rest of their lives.

Having the pope not use a few things but still keeping them is not really helping anyone.


And auctioning off heritage to the highest bidder (which would more than likely be a private party who would keep the precious squirreled away) isn't a long term solution to anything either.


monkey_licker: Then you should also never forget the millions of people Catholics have fed, clothed, educated and cared for. They put the needs of others before their own and did things that you would probably never consider doing (changing the diapers of a dying person anyone, anyone, Bueller?).

I'm not denying that the child molestation issue is huge and needs to be dealt with, but I don't think you can ignore the good that they have done.

/not a Catholic
//not a paid spokesperson

The problem is the Catholic institutions and people who really, really do DAMN good work are also for some silly reason (coughJesus'Examplecough) *really* humble about their work.  So you get douchebags like Donahue getting media attention as opposed to priests working in the inner cities to make sure people have their nutritional, shelter, and spiritual needs met.


I'm not ignoring the child abuse - it needs to be addressed properly, at the very least, someone needs to take a swing at the institutional walls that allowed it to become so insidiously widespread (c'mon, Francis).  But dammit, there's some amazing work being done - and those who really believe will never, ever refuse you help because you aren't Catholic.  First and foremost, help your fellow man.



Prayer of St. Francis (we sang this *a lot* growing up)


1. Make me a channel of your peace:
Where there is hatred, let me bring you love;
Where there is injury, your healing pow'r,
And where there's doubt, true faith in you.

2. Make me a channel of your peace:
Where there's despair in life let me bring hope;
Where there is darkness, - only light,
And where there's sadness, ever joy.

3. O Spirit, grant that I may never seek
So much to be consolded as to console,
To be understood as to understand,
To be loved as to love with all my soul - .

4. Make me a channel of your peace.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
In giving to all that we receive,
And in dying that we're born to eternal life.



Kurt Vonnegut:

About belief or lack of belief in an afterlife: Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
I am a humanist, which mean, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"
I myself have written, "If it weren't for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake."
2013-07-08 05:01:42 PM
1 votes:

dmcman73: Yogimus: jack21221: Yogimus: Explain to me how driving Yugos will feed the starving masses.

Consider the following 2 examples:

Priest buys a new Mercedes for 35,000.

Priest buys a new Chevy for 15,000, and donates 15,000 to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

That's how.

Priest buys mercedes for 35,000.  Mercedes gets sold, and a long stream of people continue to be employed. They then buy goods, and utilize services that employ OTHER people... versus Priest gives 15,000 to a soup kitchen... feeds people.

So are you saying that if all the priests in the Catholic religion kept buying consumer goods, it would solve the unemployment and financial crisis the world is going through? BRILLIANT!


BTW, it would be far better for the priests to donate their time in educating the poor to try and give them skills, donate food et all so that these people can actually get a job with skills. A priest buying a mercedes only to sell it too.....hmm...who would he sell it too since the only person that could afford it is the one that already bought it?
2013-07-08 04:58:33 PM
1 votes:

CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


I'm Catholic and I hate other Catholics and the Catholic Church in general ... it's not bigotry, it's stupid, asinine, backwards shiat that prevents real discussion about real issues from happening.

Oh, the local priest who had been abusing boys since the 1950s was just moved 5 miles down the road ... to another Church ... just another day in "As The World Turns in the Catholic Church" ...
2013-07-08 04:55:27 PM
1 votes:

dmcman73: He's walking the walk so far....


How about liquidating 10% of the vast wealth of the vatican and using the money to help child rape victims. That would be a start ... and might help some of the churches victims who will be suffering for the rest of their lives.

Having the pope not use a few things but still keeping them is not really helping anyone.
2013-07-08 04:49:31 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people


From the article:
Since succeeding Pope Benedict in March, the former cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina has eschewed some of the more ostentatious trappings of his office and has chosen to live in a Vatican guest house rather than the opulent papal apartments.
The ANSA news agency said the pope's car of choice for moving around the walled Vatican City was a compact Ford Focus.
He's walking the walk so far....
2013-07-08 04:45:57 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally. Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked. The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Nice ... taking it up a notch from "Help, help, we christians are being oppressed" to "help, help, forget the christians, we catholics are really being oppressed".

We are never going to forget that the catholic church is a criminal organization that has not paid for the crimes of protecting and enabling the widespread rape of children. They put profits and fear of bad press ahead of the welfare of children.

So you can white-knight these scumbags all you want ... doesn't change what they are.
2013-07-08 04:42:57 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).

Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.

The bible study might be non-denominational (I'm not entirely sure), but he is 100% Catholic.

He kinda pissed me off over the weekend as we were at a house-warming party where one of my friends got really drunk (as he usually does) and my other friend texted us saying we need to watch him and make sure he's ok. The reborn one actually said (and I'm typing this word for word from my texts)
"I know."
"He needs to go to church."
"The only way he will stop drinking is if God changes him"

I can't even have a conversation with the guy anymore without it being turned into some way to get me (or others) to go to church.


He's a converted Catholic. Everyone who converts is going to be all annoying about it. No real Catholic would biatch about someone being drunk. It's basically in our doctrine that beer and gambling be available at all social gatherings.
2013-07-08 04:33:26 PM
1 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: Infernalist: How many nations were pillaged for that treasure trove, I wonder.

Wonder no more. Do some research. Enlighten us about how much of the Vatican's treasures were the result of plunder in the last 500 years. And to be sure we are being fair, let's compare that with say the Louvre, and the London Museum.

monkey_licker: I'd just like to expand the conversation beyond Catholicism because of my feelings about the issues of inequality in general, and how various religions deal with it specifically. I also think the conversation needs to go beyond clergy/priest/pastor/rabbi/guru to the laity. It is easy to sit back and let the "paid" staff do the hard work while we live in comfort and wealth. We are the Church as a body, not just the people on staff. It is our responsibility, not theirs.

I completely agree with this notion of the responsibility of Christians as individuals. As near as I have been able to determine, Christ repeatedly told his followers to give of themselves directly, and to give the shirt off their own backs, not to see to it that "someone" does the right thing. But tithing, or giving to the church is an effective and pragmatic way to do the greatest good by pooling the resources of the faithful. You and I may each be able to cover the cost of a needy families' medication, but if a whole bunch of us pool money together, the church can build a hospital. And that is a much greater good. The two are not mutually exclusive, of course, and individually, a Christina is called to do both.

Christ was very clear that money doesn't mean shiat, and that you should use your prosperity to help those less fortunate, And that insomuch as all success is by the grace of god, you don't "own" that success, anyway and should give of it freely.  What I find particularly maddening and frankly disgusting are the money priests peddling the notion that "accepting Jesus into your heart" will lead to financial success. This seems to be the very epitome of "false prophe ...


So, pre-500 years ago, that pillaging doesn't count.  Got it.  Also, it's cute how you try to distract by bringing in non-"I SPEAK FOR GOD" targets like the Louvre and the English government.

Yeah,the poor and starving, sick and dying in South America, Africa, and the rest of the world that the Catholic rely on for their tithes and support, I don't think they give a single fark about the pageantry and opulence of the Catholic Church's nonsense.  They're more concerned with food and shelter and not dying.
2013-07-08 04:32:19 PM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.


Agreed. If this really is Catholicism, it's an utter first in my experience.
2013-07-08 04:27:33 PM
1 votes:
If I've learned anything from this thread is that apparently there is an entire army of militant Catholics out there

Who....Knew
2013-07-08 04:23:33 PM
1 votes:

colonel.locke: Why doesn't God fix it?


He's more into breaking things with earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, droughts, plagues and the like.
2013-07-08 04:23:04 PM
1 votes:

CowboyJeff: No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.
 No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews



www.supermanofsteel.com

Muslims, Jews, and most Protestant denominations just don't have the corporate structure that the Catholics do that can change their policy overnight with the words of 1 man.
Fundamentalists of all stripes are wrong, just in different ways.
Get that?  All wrong.
2013-07-08 04:20:05 PM
1 votes:

TheSelphie: Thinking of sending this article over to my parents, who both claim to be Catholic.  Dad just bought 3rd car- 4th between the both of them- a Mustang.  He gets a new sports car or truck every damn year, and refuses to lease.  Probably has wasted 7 figures over his lifetime, and he still has loans on the car and a mortgage when he's making a quarter mil annually.  My parents are a disgrace.


Why is any of that your business?
2013-07-08 04:19:00 PM
1 votes:

Cynicism101: FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.

I wish he was a little, uhh, more into the gays but I do like the anti-poverty stance.


The gay stuff in Pauline doctrine, not Christ's teaching. So until we can purge St. Paul from the Church, we're sort of stuck with it. If the church stayed with St. Peter's doctrine "Hey everybody, let's not have sex at all", it wouldn't be much of a problem, and not a very large church at all.
2013-07-08 04:16:18 PM
1 votes:

Abner Doon: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Never.  That doesn't mean that they don't try to make their views on gay marriage, abortion and birth control into law.  Which is even worse than proselytizing.


I tend to give the Church some leeway on abortion. They start with the view (which I do not share) that a a fertilized egg is just as much a person as any other human, just another stage no different than an infant, a toddler, an adolescent or an adult. If that is your starting viewpoint, abortion is as unconscionable as any other murder. It is a moral imperative to oppose it. A human who believes that a zygote is a human must work to end legal abortions, much as I would be morally bound to oppose infanticide were it legal.

Don't get me wrong: the misogyny, pedophilia, homophobia, hypocrisy and belief in magic were more than enough to drive me from Catholicism. But the abortion stance is the only moral stance for a human who believes life begins at conception.
2013-07-08 04:15:41 PM
1 votes:
Just to correct a myth that gets brought up ad nauseam in every pope thread, Benedict was not wearing Prada shoes.  They were made by a small Italian cobbler.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/26/the-sto ry -of-pope-benedicts-infamous-red-shoes-which-he-will-give-up/
2013-07-08 04:14:46 PM
1 votes:

m00: Pray 4 Mojo: I grew up in the reform branch of Judaism, and had some friends who were reconstructionist. I've seen lesbian rabbis.

See that?

42% of Jews are Reform Jews. It's the largest branch of Judaism. Are you saying that the largest branch of Judaism does not qualify as a major religion? Just want to be clear here.


Yes... apparently I am.

/Did not know that.
2013-07-08 04:13:36 PM
1 votes:

Aarontology: m00: That's a bad example because I don't think either the Republicans or the Democrats are serious about helping the working poor or people who don't have access to medical care. Last president who actually cared about people was probably Clinton.

Good point.

Infernalist: But he won't do that. So, he's not really serious about helping the poor as much as he could. As much as he 'should'. For the love of god, people see the Pope as the representative of GOD. And if 'he' doesn't care enough about the poor to order the shedding of excess wealth, then let's just farking stop pretending that the Catholic Church cares about the poor.

How much of your own personal assets have you liquidated in order to help the poor? Still have a TV?


Oh, I'm not the representative of God on Earth, responsible for stewarding the 'bride of Christ' and ordered directly by Christ himself to feed, clothe, shelter and minister to the poor of the world.

When I get 'that' gig, then I'll be serious about shedding what bit of wealth I have.

ps: No, I don't own a TV.
2013-07-08 04:13:33 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


I wish he was a little, uhh, more into the gays but I do like the anti-poverty stance.
2013-07-08 04:11:26 PM
1 votes:
Is it me, or people here is mixing few branches of Protestantism with Catholicism?

Personally, I'm not pro or against institutionalized religion.

Churches are organizations created by men, and as such should be regulated, monitored and make sure that don't commit crimes or excess, but I will not deride people for choosing a spiritual path that may diverge with mine.

I like some of the postures that Pope Francis is bringing, and I hope that it ends up with a reconciliation, or at least a truce, between the Church and the people, even those who don't label themselves as Catholics.

/Agnostic
//Annoyed by the "Imaginary Sky Wizard" name...
2013-07-08 04:11:21 PM
1 votes:
Thinking of sending this article over to my parents, who both claim to be Catholic.  Dad just bought 3rd car- 4th between the both of them- a Mustang.  He gets a new sports car or truck every damn year, and refuses to lease.  Probably has wasted 7 figures over his lifetime, and he still has loans on the car and a mortgage when he's making a quarter mil annually.  My parents are a disgrace.
2013-07-08 04:09:49 PM
1 votes:
HKW:
This is the resulr of making children attend something it doesnt want to do, and/or doesnt understand. You end up with the ...

except that I have no guilt about it whatsoever.
2013-07-08 04:08:31 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: The My Little Pony Killer: He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.

i believe he is leading by example. didn't he eschew the fancy papal residence? and i do think he is calling for a thorough independent investigation of the vatican bank. it's not much, but it's something. and it's significant.


Whatever.  Call me when he sells the fancy papal residence and uses the money for contraception, sex education, and foster care for all those babies that resulted from his predecessors' going to the most dirt-poor countries and telling them to fark more (without the sin of protection).

Basically, as long as a Catholic is in charge of the Catholic church, it ain't enough.
2013-07-08 04:06:05 PM
1 votes:
Francis is alos reported to be poking around in the business of the Vatican Bank. Do ... I guess we're overdue on St. Malachy's prophecies ...
2013-07-08 04:01:23 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: It's so easy to give francis a pass since he's saying things that aren't obscenely repulsive and makes happy happy joy joy sounds about being nice to poor people.

But he's still the head of a church that's sitting on billions earning interest in their own farking banks.  I realize that to do good for the masses, you need some assets to buy food and such, but there are BILLIONS of dollars that are just sitting there.

People give him credit for not living in a palace, but that palace is just sitting there, waiting for the next Pope who won't be so christ-like.  He should direct the Church to purge itself of excess wealth and put that wealth to use feeding, clothing and sheltering the poor, as Christ directed it to do.

But, they won't.  And people will be all smiles about francis when he's just mouthing platitudes and not backing it up with the sweeping changes that would draw in millions with their aversion to wealth and earthly pleasures.

They would see a church of paupers that use their vast wealth to heal the world as best as they can and 'that' would bring in more people than the gaudiest gold-gilded Church.


"I won't take this pope seriously until he starts doing what he's started to do"

It's like b*tching that because the Feds haven't sold off the Smithsonian collection and the Jefferson Memorial, we shouldn't take them seriously about trying to help the working poor or the people who don't have access to medical care.
2013-07-08 03:59:35 PM
1 votes:

WippitGuud: Nabb1: CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.

Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.

Jews and Muslims are seen more as a nationality rather than a religion, and nobody wants to be seen as racist.

Whereas Catholics are a bunch of white people who believe in an invisible sky wizard, and so are stupid.


Actually, most caltholic are not white.  The biggest populations are in Central and South America and Africa.  That is why they picked the cuurent pope from Argentina.  Second, Gd is not an "invisable sky wizard".  He is not a wizard and is not in the sky.
2013-07-08 03:58:23 PM
1 votes:
It's so easy to give francis a pass since he's saying things that aren't obscenely repulsive and makes happy happy joy joy sounds about being nice to poor people.

But he's still the head of a church that's sitting on billions earning interest in their own farking banks.  I realize that to do good for the masses, you need some assets to buy food and such, but there are BILLIONS of dollars that are just sitting there.

People give him credit for not living in a palace, but that palace is just sitting there, waiting for the next Pope who won't be so christ-like.  He should direct the Church to purge itself of excess wealth and put that wealth to use feeding, clothing and sheltering the poor, as Christ directed it to do.

But, they won't.  And people will be all smiles about francis when he's just mouthing platitudes and not backing it up with the sweeping changes that would draw in millions with their aversion to wealth and earthly pleasures.

They would see a church of paupers that use their vast wealth to heal the world as best as they can and 'that' would bring in more people than the gaudiest gold-gilded Church.
2013-07-08 03:56:12 PM
1 votes:
By the way, as for the "why doesn't the Catholic Church sell its art collection to feed the poor....The Catholic Church does not own its collection.  When the Italian states united into a nation in the late 19th Centtury, the Catholic church was forced to give up its land holdings in Italy (which was pretty much all of Italy).  In exchange they were given Vatican City as a seperate nation state plus a few buildings in Rome.  If you look at the Vatican's borders, they were clearly created by a committee.  As part of that deal, the Church's holdings in art were declared to be the national partimony of Italy and cannot be sold.   Given how much money they bring in tourism, it is not likely that will ever happen.
2013-07-08 03:53:06 PM
1 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: EdNortonsTwin: Yes,I suppose they are to a significant degree, charitable with other peoples money.

Other people's money? I assume you know how charity works and tithing and such? Is there an option for spontaneously generating money that I am unaware of?

I don't doubt the charity of folks who give to the Catholic Church, but I've been to the Vatican. It puts the Third Reichs art collection to shame. It's a bloody vast hoard.

Yes it is. And "thank god" for that. Preserved and available for people like you and me to go and see it. And so very much of it paid for, sponsored and encouraged by the Church. And so much of it donated. The Roman Catholic Church has been a patron of some of the greatest artists mankind has ever produced, and those artists created some of the most beautiful artwork ever created. From the Pieta, to the Sistine Chapel, to the Last Supper, to St. Peter's Basilica itself, what a treasure trove of priceless art.

And to think. All that beauty and treasure without a single tank.


How many nations were pillaged for that treasure trove, I wonder.
2013-07-08 03:52:00 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


Same here. He sure appears to be a decent guy who is actually trying to be Christ-like.
2013-07-08 03:50:13 PM
1 votes:

CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


A lot of this "bigotry" you speak of is from former Catholics that are no longer buying what the church is selling. I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school for 13 years (including Kindergarten) and I sent my two son's to 13 years of Catholic school. I have not been part of the church since the day my youngest son graduated high school. I have 4 siblings that are no longer part of the church either. The hypocrisy is at intolerable levels and I no longer want to be a part of the problem. I agree that the church shouldn't change their position on gay priests and homosexuality because that IS part of their doctrine. A doctrine just as flawed as white supremacists or any other extremist positions. I'm not part of their club either.
2013-07-08 03:35:31 PM
1 votes:

monkey_licker: I understand what you are saying, but that is really irrelevant. Even with all of the charitable giving we live orders of magnitude beyond 90% of the rest of the world. Even in our own backyard we have people dying of treatable diseases and going to bed hungry. It's OK to say good things are happening, but it is also OK to say much more remains to be done.

Let me also clarify - I am not Catholic. I don't know how to label myself so I won't go beyond Christian. I see many professional preachers today driving swanky cars, living in mansions and doing very little to help others compared to the wealth they posses. I also see many Christians following Supply Side Jesus and the Republican party instead of the Biblical Jesus. We need to ask ourselves hard questions about whether we worship God or Mammon.


Again, when you are talking about professional preachers in swanky cars, you are talking about prosperity gospel evangelicals not Catholics. I'm sure the local bishop drives a decent car, but I used to live next to the local catholic priest and he drove an older model crown vic. I used to live next to a diocese retreat, and every day there would be cars parked out in front, and never a Lexus or a BMW or the like.

I COMPLETELY agree that the Prosperity Gospel abomination is a terrible, poisonous distortion of Christianity, and I wish that people could see it and leave these charlatans on the street. As Bono once said "The God I believe in isn't short of cash mister."

The point is that this complaint is not really as applicable to the Catholic Church as it is to people like the Osteens. Even when a Pope or a Bishop has a gold-encrusted robe, or lives in a fancy house, those are not HIS, they are the Churches'. Catholic priests tend to have very modest means.
2013-07-08 03:32:37 PM
1 votes:
While growing up, parents and grandparents brought me and siblings to church weekly, and we were friends with the pastor/priest/church officials to the point that on rare occasion our family would visit their home.  At some point before my teens I recognized how well their home was appointed and the type of car they drove, and how these seemed better than what we had.  And later I noticed the embellishments of the pope and the Vatican.  This began my disillusionment with the church, its message, and the omnipotent being.

Good luck to the pope on this initiative.
2013-07-08 03:32:24 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).


Tuesday Bible studies?  Quit drinking?  Your pal sounds more like a Protestant.
2013-07-08 03:31:51 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: I can't even have a conversation with the guy anymore without it being turned into some way to get me (or others) to go to church.


That dude won't be Catholic very long...

Just Saying.

Most likely he'll de-convert and be on his way... or hyper-convert to a more Evangelical house of Christianity. Either way... Catholics don't roll that way and he won't last.
2013-07-08 03:30:38 PM
1 votes:

Surpheon: simplicimus: /* Unless your future spouse is Catholic and wants a Church Wedding.

Not sure how old you are, but it's no problem now. Typically they just skip the eucharist. But as long as the spouse agrees to raise any children Catholic, the church is fine with mixed religion marriages.


Yeah, I'm old.
2013-07-08 03:27:02 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: Married priests is just a policy change. It was started in medieval times, when the eldest male was (a the sole heir of family property and b) had to become a priest, so all that property went to the Church. Before that, priests were allowed to marry.


My understanding was it was usually the opposite. Rarely did the eldest heir take the cloth, otherwise a families wealth and standing would end in a generation, which obviously was scrupulously avoided.

More common was for the younger heirs, who were less likely to inherit lands and title would take vows to ensure that they had a place of standing (and sometimes power). Of course, all wealthy families were expected to (and very much did) give to the church to show both their deep, deep, earnest and true faith (*wink*) and not at all to curry favor with the local Abby or Bishop who wielded enormous political power.

Conversely, the poor and unwealthy children would be sent to take the cloth because it was one of the few avenues of financial security and limited upward social mobility.
2013-07-08 03:26:58 PM
1 votes:

Urinal Cake Mix: FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.

Same. The Catholic church is never going to accept gay marriage (or contraceptives, let's be honest), but at least this guy isn't a total all-around douche. The Cardinals could've picked a much, much worse alternative.


Like the previous one, the "Pompous Nazi Old Guy"
Leave Francis alone - from the moment he chose his name, Catholics knew he was going to be different
2013-07-08 03:26:00 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).

Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.

The bible study might be non-denominational (I'm not entirely sure), but he is 100% Catholic.

He kinda pissed me off over the weekend as we were at a house-warming party where one of my friends got really drunk (as he usually does) and my other friend texted us saying we need to watch him and make sure he's ok. The reborn one actually said (and I'm typing this word for word from my texts)
"I know."
"He needs to go to church."
"The only way he will stop drinking is if God changes him"

I can't even have a conversation with the guy anymore without it being turned into some way to get me (or others) to go to church.


If he's "reborn," he's not 100% Catholic any more.
2013-07-08 03:25:40 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: scottydoesntknow: Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Fark, I hate those people. They're worse than the drinkers and drug addicts. He's probably also in some "program". Just get assimilated by the Borg and be done with it.

/but glad he's doing well


While that is annoying.  It is better that he is addicted to religion than to the substances that could kill him.  A lot of people with addiction issues simply trade in on a less damaging addiction.  It doesn't make them any less annoying.
2013-07-08 03:24:37 PM
1 votes:

you have pee hands: Pray 4 Mojo: When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

I couldn't care less about proselytizing, which is no different than any other door do door peddler.  It's where they're trying to push medical and social issues that annoys me.


As a Catholic, it annoys me as well. It violates the Church doctrine of free will and Christ's admonition to "hate the sin, love the sinner." And we don't proselytize.*
/* Unless your future spouse is Catholic and wants a Church Wedding.
2013-07-08 03:24:11 PM
1 votes:
simplicimus:

Nor in my extensive experience as a Catholic. There are a lot of hoops to jump through to become a Catholic, unless you're born one (as I was).

There were a lot of hoops to get out too... at least in my family.

I still go to Mass when I happen to be with my folks or siblings on a Sunday... but I haven't gotten a wafer in a loooooong time.
2013-07-08 03:23:48 PM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).

Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.


The bible study might be non-denominational (I'm not entirely sure), but he is 100% Catholic.

He kinda pissed me off over the weekend as we were at a house-warming party where one of my friends got really drunk (as he usually does) and my other friend texted us saying we need to watch him and make sure he's ok. The reborn one actually said (and I'm typing this word for word from my texts)
"I know."
"He needs to go to church."
"The only way he will stop drinking is if God changes him"

I can't even have a conversation with the guy anymore without it being turned into some way to get me (or others) to go to church.
2013-07-08 03:18:30 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public

This. They need to learn that they must start with themselves if they want anybody else to take their crap seriously.

/this pope is very good at making squishy, warm sounding statements
//he is just as full of shiat as his predecessors


You don't have the slightest idea of his background if you think he hasn't started with himself.
2013-07-08 03:18:03 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people


The guy has not used the popemobile since his election and has shunned the luxury of the papal apartments to live with other priests in a modest flat. When asked to switch his 5 years old shoes with the papal Prada shoes he replied: "why? these ones have served me well so far"

p.s. he also launched an inquest on the alleged illicit affairs of the vatican bank and a couple of high ranking priests have been arrested for money laundering

the guy is great - hopefully they won't kill him too soon

//agnostic
2013-07-08 03:16:27 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).


Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.
2013-07-08 03:14:39 PM
1 votes:

brandent: Hdj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public

He just might.  He's made statements to that effect and has recently started an investigation at the bank and appointed someone like him to get on the inside.  It's harder than it looks I bet though.  Other things he's done:

Washed feet of women.  That's a pretty big deal actually.
Said have married priests was only a matter of "policy" change.
Fired the entire bureaucracy.  Well not really but I believe what happens is they all voluntarily resign with every Pope and then are reappointed.  I don't believe he has reinstated them yet.

This is lightning level speeds of change for that institution.


Married priests is just a policy change. It was started in medieval times, when the eldest male was (a the sole heir of family property and b) had to become a priest, so all that property went to the Church. Before that, priests were allowed to marry.
For fun, Francis should fill the vacancies with fellow Jesuits. There would be major changes fairly quickly.
2013-07-08 03:14:32 PM
1 votes:
Want to spare the world from some starvation and suffering?

No!?!

Well I was going to suggest selling and leasing off some of those vatican artifacts and start distributing birth control and educating folks about STDs.

Oh well, nevermind.

When I think of excess, the images of tombs of the Vatican come to mind.  Dead guys -- more important than the living it seems.
2013-07-08 03:14:02 PM
1 votes:
I love all these Catholics in the thread who keep whining about persecution. You stop trying to make me obey your religious laws, and I'll stop seeing you as a bunch of regressive tyrants. You don't want abortion? Don't have one. You don't want gay marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex. You tend to your flock and stay the heck out of my pasture!
2013-07-08 03:12:35 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: The Catholic Church has traditionally been against the death penalty and pro-social justice in modern times, which also tends to favor Democrats. There was a time when being a Catholic made one virtually unelectable as President until JFK finally broke down that barrier, and many Catholics who were alive then are staunch "Kennedy Democrats" (like my mother). People seriously claimed that a Catholic President would be under complete control of the Vatican and would be a puppet of the Pope.


That still boggles my mind that this thought still exists to this day. I mean granted we're talking about people like Glenn Beck but still.....
2013-07-08 03:12:29 PM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?


Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).
2013-07-08 03:09:45 PM
1 votes:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-07-08 03:08:40 PM
1 votes:

IdBeCrazyIf: Aarontology: I *think* it's like a 55-45 split, but I could be wrong. Might even be closer than that.

Its a pretty close split with a large demographic being working class industrial revolution immigrant families. They vote strong on labor issues but don't wear social values on their arm like evangelicals do.

So you can blame the Irish for the confusion


The Catholic Church has traditionally been against the death penalty and pro-social justice in modern times, which also tends to favor Democrats.  There was a time when being a Catholic made one virtually unelectable as President until JFK finally broke down that barrier, and many Catholics who were alive then are staunch "Kennedy Democrats" (like my mother).  People seriously claimed that a Catholic President would be under complete control of the Vatican and would be a puppet of the Pope.
2013-07-08 03:07:36 PM
1 votes:

WippitGuud: scottydoesntknow: That's fine, then keep it in the church. It's when he and many, many other christians use their influence to actually get anti-homosexual laws established that people get upset about.

Anyone have a chart of which christian denomination most Republicans are? Honestly, I'd be shocked if the majority was Catholic.


i293.photobucket.com


From here...  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/10/the-politic s -of-race-and-religion-in-two-pie-charts/
2013-07-08 03:06:05 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


My thoughts, too, but I gotta give him some time.  Well cared for members of the Holy See possibly maybe while there's a chance they would agree with Francis in principle, they aint giving up none of their fancy, smancy trappings.

Also, I'd like to see some real balls broken with the whole farking children for hundreds of years thing, instead of just nice words about god.
2013-07-08 03:03:28 PM
1 votes:

Aarontology: I *think* it's like a 55-45 split, but I could be wrong. Might even be closer than that.


Its a pretty close split with a large demographic being working class industrial revolution immigrant families. They vote strong on labor issues but don't wear social values on their arm like evangelicals do.

So you can blame the Irish for the confusion
2013-07-08 03:00:21 PM
1 votes:
This pope is a great guy! Especially his support of the right wing military junta in Argentina! Awesome, standup guy!
2013-07-08 02:58:23 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: Nabb1: Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.

What would you think of Microsoft if it was well documented that their executives were molesting children and instead of having them arrested or even fired, they were simply relocated around so they couldn't get caught? What would you think of people who knew about this but still gave them money? Would people who were opposed to these practices be called bigots, anti-Microsites?


I think the US has committed a number of atrocities throughout history and yet I still believe it to be one of the best countries in the world and am proud to live here.  Do I want the Church to come to grips with that scandal and make sure it never happens again?  Absolutely, and so do the vast majority of Catholics.
2013-07-08 02:58:18 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: Historically, Catholics tend to vote Democratic. I think that still holds, but I don't think the margin is enormously wide.


I *think* it's like a 55-45 split, but I could be wrong. Might even be closer than that.
2013-07-08 02:57:40 PM
1 votes:

WippitGuud: Anyone have a chart of which christian denomination most Republicans are?


Only one Catholic President. More Presidents have been Episcopalian than any other denomination, followed by Presbyterian as I recall.

Both GW Bush and Hillary Clinton are Methodist.

Where are we going with this again?
2013-07-08 02:57:07 PM
1 votes:

WippitGuud: scottydoesntknow: That's fine, then keep it in the church. It's when he and many, many other christians use their influence to actually get anti-homosexual laws established that people get upset about.

Anyone have a chart of which christian denomination most Republicans are? Honestly, I'd be shocked if the majority was Catholic.


Per wiki: Currently, 24 of the 100 U.S. Senators are Catholics (15 Democrats, 9 Republicans). 132 of the 435 members of the House of Representatives are Catholics. The Speaker of the House, Republican John Boehner of Ohio, is Catholic. Vice President Joe Biden is also a Catholic, the first ever to be elected to the Vice Presidency.
2013-07-08 02:56:09 PM
1 votes:

IdBeCrazyIf: Did the college even know what Jesuit meant when they elected this guy?


I'm hoping they do and that's why they did it.

/would not want to try to assassinate a Jesuit
//bastard is apt to shoot first, straighter and have a larger weapon
2013-07-08 02:52:45 PM
1 votes:
I must admit, against all better judgement, I like this Pope.

cdn.hark.com

2013-07-08 02:52:01 PM
1 votes:
Nabb1:
Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.

It's almost like the Catholic Church is an institution with a definitive identity and policies, and a nation, with leadership, not a loose affiliation of individuals who share some, but not all beliefs.  But that's not true, so criticizing them is exactly the same as bigotry.
2013-07-08 02:50:10 PM
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: That's fine, then keep it in the church. It's when he and many, many other christians use their influence to actually get anti-homosexual laws established that people get upset about.


Anyone have a chart of which christian denomination most Republicans are? Honestly, I'd be shocked if the majority was Catholic.
2013-07-08 02:49:10 PM
1 votes:
WippitGuud:

Jews and Muslims are seen more as a nationality rather than a religion, and nobody wants to be seen as racist.

Whereas Catholics are a bunch of white people who believe in an invisible sky wizard, and so are stupid.


Hate to break the news to you, but the Catholic Church is international and includes many different ethnicities.
2013-07-08 02:48:45 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: No, he's telling his UNDERLINGS to think about what they're doing. He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.


Maybe you should read up on this Pope, He kinda already is.
2013-07-08 02:46:33 PM
1 votes:

CowboyJeff: You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


Firstly I think the level of hate directed toward Catholicism is reasonably on a par with every other religion. I say reasonably because we live in a christian hemisphere, there is always going to be more focus and talk on Christianity and Catholicism than there is Islam, simply because it affects us more. Secondly Catholicism has a lot to answer for, and people rightly bring it up whenever they get the chance. It's not like this is a thread about a new car that has become hijacked by anti-catholic zealots saying a bunch of lies about Catholicism. In fact aren't most of the comments here supportive of the new pope? I think they are.

I do agree with you though that such a radical change isn't going to happen, but that doesn't mean I can't want it to happen. But just to please you I will stand up and say Jews should eat pork and work on the weekend, like everyone else. Ultimately because there is no god and they're wasting their lives needlessly. A life without being able to feast and taste of all of natures wondrous marvels is a life wasted. Good day sir.
2013-07-08 02:46:20 PM
1 votes:

WippitGuud: Whereas Catholics are a bunch of white people who believe in an invisible sky wizard, and so are stupid.


I take it you've never been to Mexico.
2013-07-08 02:46:15 PM
1 votes:

IdBeCrazyIf: Did the college even know what Jesuit meant when they elected this guy?


Apparently not. But they're learning.
2013-07-08 02:45:01 PM
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org : 2 + 2 = 9

upload.wikimedia.org : 2 + 2 = 8
2013-07-08 02:38:47 PM
1 votes:

Alphakronik: FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.

I'll believe that when he starts living more like christ, and starts giving his possessions away.  He can start with his Mercedes and gold staffs.


He lives in an apartment and takes the bus to work.  Much like the President does not own his limo, that car does not belong to him.  Not that you care about factual accuracy, and not that you wouldn't find some other reason to hate him.
2013-07-08 02:36:59 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


I'll believe that when he starts living more like christ, and starts giving his possessions away.  He can start with his Mercedes and gold staffs.
2013-07-08 02:34:59 PM
1 votes:
Supply Side Jesus says that buying expensive cars is the only way to take care of starving children.  The money trickles down, you see.  The only way that this happens.
2013-07-08 02:34:13 PM
1 votes:
"You may think of the starving children. But unlike recent times you may not be aroused by these thoughts. Even though the children are so thin, helpless, pliable and have those eyes that just say "I need you" do not be aroused.
2013-07-08 02:33:35 PM
1 votes:
Catholic Church was never about helping the poor; it was only about spreading the religion. Look at Mother Theresa.

Glad to see this Pope is attempting to be different.
2013-07-08 01:22:32 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


Me too. I wasn't expecting much from a new Pope but this guy has potential.
2013-07-08 12:06:50 PM
1 votes:

Aarontology: The My Little Pony Killer: This. They need to learn that they must start with themselves if they want anybody else to take their crap seriously.

That's what he's advocating, dude.


No, he's telling his UNDERLINGS to think about what they're doing. He needs to start with himself. He is the star of their show, after all.

Otherwise, it's just a bunch of "do as I say, not as I do" hot air that we've been hearing from popes since the beginning of popedom.
2013-07-08 11:57:48 AM
1 votes:

dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public


This. They need to learn that they must start with themselves if they want anybody else to take their crap seriously.

/this pope is very good at making squishy, warm sounding statements
//he is just as full of shiat as his predecessors
 
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