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(Salon)   The Pope says that if priests want to drive fancy cars, they should "think about how many children are dying of hunger in the world." I give him six months to a year   (salon.com) divider line 305
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7102 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 05:18:23 PM
Many of the Catholic bashers here are posting here purely to vent their spleen and there is no changing their minds. I am reminded of an old close friend of mine who was dutifully young*and atheist and leftist and anti-religion and anti-Catholic in particular, who had an oversized case of the hates for the Catholic church, declaring them to be "The single greatest evil force in the world today, and responsible for most of the problems in the world today". Of course, there wasn't any real demonstration of this with comparisons, facts, etc. so much as vehement certitude. No sense talking to him, that's just how he saw it.**

So I get some of the rage and Catholic hate bashing. I even get the misdirected anger at the Catholic Church for the actions of various protestant churches by people who can't effectively differentiate. We were all young once.

But it is pointless, boring, and sad to see so many people who, when presented with a Pope, and even a church that actually DOES practice what it preaches, and actually DOES care for the poor and the needy and the downtrodden, continue to attack a church that does all of these things more often and on a larger scale and for longer than almost any other institution known to man.

I get that there are valid criticisms of the RCC, and even of the Papacy and the Vatican. Absolutely. But saying that the Catholic Church doesn't care for the needy and the hungry and the sick and the uneducated all over the world is just plain stupid. All people saying that are doing is showing everyone else on the thread that they are either staggeringly ignorant, or disturbingly blinded by their own prejudice.

/* Teenagers and college students. No one is more vehement and opinionated and downright certain. Even when we were being assholes.
/** Well, How he saw it until he met and married a Catholic girl, and then he re-discovered that he had been Catholic all along, had never said a bad word about his the church of Rome and extolled the virtues of the Church. I was at his son' christening last year. What a difference a few decades can make on someone's perspective.
 
2013-07-08 05:23:06 PM

Slaxl: 10% of the wealth could end poverty around the world in a myriad of ways, but if you let a committee hand it out based on feelings, rather than cold hard financial sensibilities then it'll go to waste.


Oh cool!

Since the government takes three times as much in taxes, and hands it out based on cold, hard economics, I'm happy to know that poverty has been ended everywhere!

Whew. I was getting worried.
 
2013-07-08 05:25:10 PM

BojanglesPaladin: /** Well, How he saw it until he met and married a Catholic girl, and then he re-discovered that he had been Catholic all along, had never said a bad word about his the church of Rome and extolled the virtues of the Church. I was at his son' christening last year. What a difference a few decades can make on someone's perspective.


You say that like his behavior was in no way motivated by getting laid.
 
2013-07-08 05:26:50 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Slaxl: 10% of the wealth could end poverty around the world in a myriad of ways, but if you let a committee hand it out based on feelings, rather than cold hard financial sensibilities then it'll go to waste.

Oh cool!

Since the government takes three times as much in taxes, and hands it out based on cold, hard economics, I'm happy to know that poverty has been ended everywhere!

Whew. I was getting worried.


They're not trying to. That's why I said it must be me, for I am the only one great enough, and without clarity of mind and reason to take on the task, without succumbing to common human weaknesses like ego, and avarice, and greed. No, truly I am the greatest.
 
2013-07-08 05:30:14 PM
StreetlightInTheGhetto:
Kurt Vonnegut:

About belief or lack of belief in an afterlife: Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
I am a humanist, which mean, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"
I myself have written, "If it weren't for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake."


C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
 
2013-07-08 05:32:15 PM

sharpie_69: But are they doing the things that work to raise people out of poverty? Education for men AND women and free access to birth control so women can have control of their reproductive health? Or do they continue to preach against birth control?


Yeah. As I'm sure you know, The Catholic Church, for theological and doctrinal reasons, opposes interfering with reproduction by artificial means and that is unlikely to change.

I'm confused why you think that:
a) You ARE aware that the Catholic Church educates women and girls, right? Not sure where you hot the idea that they didn't, but that's weird.

b) birth control is a critical component out of poverty. I only ask because prior to the introduction of the pill in1960 and abortion in 1973, people were able to rise out of poverty. Oddly, there was GREATER social mobility then than now in America.

And not to light that particular fire, but it really *IS* true that the best way to avoid pregnancy is not to do things that result in pregnancy. The Catholic Church absolutely and vehemently advocates behaviors that, if adhered to, would dramatically prevent pregnancy, the spread of HIV and numerous other STDs. I may not agree with their approach from a pragmatic standpoint, but it's hard to argue that they aren't advocating for the most complete system of preventing unwanted pregnancy.
 
2013-07-08 05:33:42 PM
It will take far, far more for me to see Catholicism in a positive light, but this new guy has a lot of potential.
I hope he isn't assassinated.
 
2013-07-08 05:34:39 PM

Sid_6.7: You say that like his behavior was in no way motivated by getting laid.


It is pretty well documented that there are much easier and more efficient ways to get laid than marrying a Catholic Woman :)
 
2013-07-08 05:44:47 PM
www.vidstopin.com

Approves.

/ I have to do everything around here.
 
2013-07-08 05:59:15 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Magorn: IBM digitized almost the entire Vatican Library collection a decade aago and the Vatican has it available online now.

Yeah, but not the GOOD stuff, that Dan Brown and the esoteric fanatics all tell us is in the SECRET Archives.

Which is probably good, because if the Necronomicon were put on the internet, we would probably all be transported to the realm of the cenobites, and that would be a real dick move for the Pope to make.


They're called "secret" from the Latin, "secretum," meaning "separate," not " hush hush." And scholars can work in the Secret Archives. I did about two years ago.
 
2013-07-08 06:03:01 PM
Will no one rid us of this turbulent priest?
 
2013-07-08 06:33:00 PM

Scaevola: They're called "secret" from the Latin, "secretum," meaning "separate," not " hush hush." And scholars can work in the Secret Archives. I did about two years ago.


Yeah, but that's not the SECRET, secret one. The one that only the Bavarian Inner Circle and Rosicrucians of the 72nd degree who have kissed the backside of Baphomet are allowed to see.

You know, the one with the really evil stuff, like the books explaining how Mary Magdalene was really the DAUGHTER of God, and how Jesus was really an alien, and that the Merovingian Dynasty was really the descended bloodline of Christ and the anti-Pope cabal of the illuminati had them hunted down and exterminated to ensure the modern age of godless worship of Mammon for the extra-dimensional overlords who are working toward the day the the sleeping elder gods can return in glory and madness.

And we KNOW that secret Archive exists because the Vatican denies its existence, thereby proving they are hiding it.

Jeeez. Don't you know anything?
 
2013-07-08 06:34:30 PM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Jesus is pretty specific about cars--he tells the apostles to all be of one Accord.


Jesus built my hotrod.

/Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
 
2013-07-08 06:34:36 PM
I was raised a roman catholic and our local bishop drove a BMW.  He did not, however, pay for it.  It was a gift from a local BMW dealer.  Still, he should have taken the gift, sold the car, purchased a Dodge Omni, and donated the rest of the money to charity.

Also, while not catholic, I worked with a woman who was a southern baptist and would go on and on about how her church was devoted to charity, yet their minister drove a jaguar.  I asked why waste the money on a jaguar and she replied, "It makes the congregation look classy when he drives a classy car, so we bought him a jaguar."  Wow.  Talk about not getting the message.
 
2013-07-08 06:37:10 PM

Scaevola: dj_bigbird: I'll believe him when he liquidates the Vatican Bank and all of the assets of the Vatican.

/and opens the Vatican library to the public

The Vatican Library, like *every other research library in Europe* is a closed collection, and you need credentials for access. Biatch about the British Library too, then, or learn about things before you shoot off your mouth.


You would be surprised at how easy it is to get into a research library.  Pretty much if you are student and the research library has material relevant to your study they will let you in.  That is, of course, if they are not swamped with requests.  Places like the vatican library are harder to get into because of the large number of people requesting permission to get in the door.
 
2013-07-08 06:37:40 PM

Metaluna Mutant: farm9.staticflickr.com


catholicstand.com

Francis doesn't do the gold throne thing. He doesn't even do the gold cross thing. Or the fancy flowers. He doesn't even live in the official Papal apartments, he lives in a guest room in a separate building.
 
2013-07-08 06:40:59 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Prayer of St. Francis (we sang this *a lot* growing up)


LOL. Me and all. It's a good one.

Kurt Vonnegut:

About belief or lack of belief in an afterlife: Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
I am a humanist, which mean, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"
I myself have written, "If it weren't for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake."


I often refer to myself as an "atheist/recovering Catholic" but "humanist" is a much better description.

/I miss Kurt.
 
2013-07-08 06:42:37 PM

BojanglesPaladin: I only ask because prior to the introduction of the pill in1960 and abortion in 1973,


Abortion has been around for a few thousand years. It was readily available 200 years ago. It wasn't until the 1830s or thereabouts that the first moves to curtail emerged in the US. Oh and Jesus knew about abortion, it was covered by Jewish law in his day, and funny enough he said nothing about that particular bit of the law. Which for the curious said that if a woman's health is put at risk but being pregnant she could get an abortion. If her life was threatened by being pregnant she would get an abortion.
 
2013-07-08 06:56:04 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: TheSelphie: Thinking of sending this article over to my parents, who both claim to be Catholic.  Dad just bought 3rd car- 4th between the both of them- a Mustang.  He gets a new sports car or truck every damn year, and refuses to lease.  Probably has wasted 7 figures over his lifetime, and he still has loans on the car and a mortgage when he's making a quarter mil annually.  My parents are a disgrace.

Why is any of that your business?


Because they are my parents and they are wasting their money when they're almost at retirement age and hardly have any savings because they wasted it so much of their money on probably 30 cars in 33 years of marriage and other unneeded luxuries?  I don't want my dad to work until he's dead.
 
2013-07-08 06:56:34 PM

WhyteRaven74: Abortion has been around for a few thousand years. It was readily available 200 years ago. It wasn't until the 1830s or thereabouts that the first moves to curtail emerged in the US.


Yes it was. And? I'm still failing to see how it is anyone's responsibility to provide contraception and abortion as an effective means of lifting people out of poverty on par with, say, education.

And if the argument is that child birthing and rearing is an impediment to financial success, I would posit that the Catholic Church would say that material wealth is not the true measure of success, far from it, and that they already advocate a lifestyle and behavior that protects women against both unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

WhyteRaven74: Oh and Jesus knew about abortion, it was covered by Jewish law in his day, and funny enough he said nothing about that particular bit of the law.


Not particularly odd. There are any number of laws that Jesus didn't call out for special comment. I believe the general take is that things left unsaid by Jesus should not be considered an endorsement for or against. As I recall, he said something about generally letting the existing laws stand? I'm sure with your knowledge of these things, you know the scripture.

FWIW, The Catholic Doctrine, does allow for efforts to save the life of the mother that may cause the death of an unborn child, but under very specific restrictions and requirements must be met. "Attending physicians must do everything in their power to save both the mother and the child. If the physicians decide that, in the case of an ectopic pregnancy, the mother's life can only be saved by the removal of the Fallopian tube (and with it, the preborn baby), or by removal of some other tissue essential for the preborn baby's life, the baby will of course die. But this kind of surgery would not be categorized as an abortion. This is all the difference between deliberate murder (abortion) and unintentional natural death."

If you are interested, there is a detailed explanation here.
 
2013-07-08 06:57:20 PM
The priests are all 'I took this job as a cover for my lack of interest in adult relationships...get off my back'.
 
2013-07-08 06:59:05 PM

Aarontology: The My Little Pony Killer: This. They need to learn that they must start with themselves if they want anybody else to take their crap seriously.

That's what he's advocating, dude.


Talk is cheap.
 
2013-07-08 06:59:30 PM

TheSelphie: Because they are my parents and they are wasting their money when they're almost at retirement age and hardly have any savings because they wasted it so much of their money on probably 30 cars in 33 years of marriage and other unneeded luxuries?


More to the point, what does their financial lack of judgment have to do with being Catholic? If they gave all that money to charities instead of car dealerships, wouldn't you be equally concerned about their retirement? But at least that would have something to do with their religion.
 
2013-07-08 07:03:54 PM

TheSelphie: Pray 4 Mojo: TheSelphie: Thinking of sending this article over to my parents, who both claim to be Catholic.  Dad just bought 3rd car- 4th between the both of them- a Mustang.  He gets a new sports car or truck every damn year, and refuses to lease.  Probably has wasted 7 figures over his lifetime, and he still has loans on the car and a mortgage when he's making a quarter mil annually.  My parents are a disgrace.

Why is any of that your business?

Because they are my parents and they are wasting their money when they're almost at retirement age and hardly have any savings because they wasted it so much of their money on probably 30 cars in 33 years of marriage and other unneeded luxuries?  I don't want my dad to work until he's dead.


Do you really think that he will change his life long ways just because the pope says something?  Face it, your parents have been ignoring large swathes of the bible their entire lives and they are not about to stop now.  Let your dad work until he is dead.  Maybe that is what he wants.  If not, it is still none of your business.  He has made his bed, let him lie in it.
 
2013-07-08 07:18:23 PM

WhyteRaven74: Metaluna Mutant: farm9.staticflickr.com

[catholicstand.com image 640x383]

Francis doesn't do the gold throne thing. He doesn't even do the gold cross thing. Or the fancy flowers. He doesn't even live in the official Papal apartments, he lives in a guest room in a separate building.


Unless he's had that golden throne sold or melted down and sold off to get more money to use to care for the poor, then it's simply an empty gesture.

That throne is sitting somewhere in some room getting dusty waiting on the next pope who doesn't feel the need to make an empty gesture to the poor.
 
2013-07-08 07:30:40 PM

Infernalist: Unless he's had that golden throne sold or melted down and sold off to get more money to use to care for the poor, then it's simply an empty gesture.


Yes. You have made it clear that for you, the only acceptable action for the Catholic Church is to liquidate in its entirety and donate the proceeds to "the poor". Presumably in the form of debit cards, or perhaps a lump sum cash payment?

Certainly, all those hospitals, and schools, and charities, and homeless shelters, and care for the elderly and sick and poor isn't "enough". No, the ONLY thing good enough to meet Infernalist's standards* is for it to give everything away.

/*of course, Infernalist hasn't sold his car or his computer to feed the poor, and probably doesn't give even 10% of his income to charity, but that's beside the point.
 
2013-07-08 07:35:44 PM

Man On Pink Corner: Talk is cheap.


Pope Francis lives it. He's always lived simply, as cardinal he lived in a small apartment and cooked his own meals instead of living in the rather lavish residence he could've lived in as Cardinal. He took the bus instead of being driven around. Now as Pope he dresses in the simplest white vestments, lives in a small guest room instead of the Papal apartments. He's not trying to hold anyone to a standard he himself isn't living.

Infernalist: Unless he's had that golden throne sold or melted down and sold off to get more money to use to care for the poor, then it's simply an empty gesture.


It's not an empty gesture, he's setting the tone he expects all priests to live by. And right now he's got the Vatican bank to deal with overhauling and other pressing matters to deal with. Like the Curia, about whom it appears he does not want much to do.
 
2013-07-08 07:37:52 PM
People arguing for the sold of the Vatican Treasure don't really know how the Cultural Patrimony of Mankind does work.

That treasure doesn't really belong to the the Pope, he doesn't really have the power to sell it.

Besides, it will ends in hands of private collectors, and you don't want those on the hands of EEEEVIL rich people, do you?
 
2013-07-08 07:45:02 PM

WhyteRaven74: Pope Francis lives it.


Let me know when the art at the Vatican shows up on eBay.  I'll put in a few bids...
 
2013-07-08 07:55:29 PM

Man On Pink Corner: WhyteRaven74: Pope Francis lives it.

Let me know when the art at the Vatican shows up on eBay.  I'll put in a few bids...


So, let me get this straight.  It's preferable to you that this priceless art (that the Vatican in all probability commissioned several hundred years ago) be taken out of its current display where it is open to the public to go see it, and go into a private collection where it'll be either a charged admittance or never seen again?
 
2013-07-08 08:04:40 PM

NEDM: Man On Pink Corner: WhyteRaven74: Pope Francis lives it.

Let me know when the art at the Vatican shows up on eBay.  I'll put in a few bids...

So, let me get this straight.  It's preferable to you that this priceless art (that the Vatican in all probability commissioned several hundred years ago) be taken out of its current display where it is open to the public to go see it, and go into a private collection where it'll be either a charged admittance or never seen again?


He couldn't even be bothered reading the comment directly before his - you really think he cares about art?
 
2013-07-08 08:09:14 PM

HKW: Knuckleheads will always find fault with what they dont like. You cant change thier mind - it's not possible.

Christ is the example. A perfect man who had nothing serving all mankind equally, and the knuckleheads still convinced themselves he was 'evil'.


I like how you are making moral judgment on people - you, a guy who once called being black "a disease of idiocy."

HKW 2006-12-14 07:45:53 PM:
    
DC.
Ruled by blacks,
once slaves by shame.
today - all the opprotunity,
the results the same.

Black is a disease of idiocy.
theres no cure.
Abandon All Hope.
/transmission end
 
2013-07-08 08:17:23 PM

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


Thats the plan and you bought it. Nicely played by the cathols this time really.
 
2013-07-08 08:30:32 PM
Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.
 
2013-07-08 08:53:36 PM

MrEricSir: Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.


You didn't read ANY of the comments before you opened your suck hole, did you?
 
2013-07-08 08:54:13 PM

NEDM: Man On Pink Corner: WhyteRaven74: Pope Francis lives it.

Let me know when the art at the Vatican shows up on eBay.  I'll put in a few bids...

So, let me get this straight.  It's preferable to you that this priceless art (that the Vatican in all probability commissioned several hundred years ago) be taken out of its current display where it is open to the public to go see it, and go into a private collection where it'll be either a charged admittance or never seen again?


Uh, most of the Vatican's art collection is currently sitting on shelves and in drawers where no one but curators ever see it.
 
2013-07-08 09:03:51 PM

Mock26: NEDM: Man On Pink Corner: WhyteRaven74: Pope Francis lives it.

Let me know when the art at the Vatican shows up on eBay.  I'll put in a few bids...

So, let me get this straight.  It's preferable to you that this priceless art (that the Vatican in all probability commissioned several hundred years ago) be taken out of its current display where it is open to the public to go see it, and go into a private collection where it'll be either a charged admittance or never seen again?

Uh, most of the Vatican's art collection is currently sitting on shelves and in drawers where no one but curators ever see it.


As are most museum's and gallery's collections. There aren't enough walls on earth to display the accumulated art of mankind's existence. Not even just the 'good stuff'.
 
2013-07-08 09:04:26 PM

MrEricSir: Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.


Yes. You have made it clear that for you, the only acceptable action for the Catholic Church is to liquidate in its entirety and donate the proceeds to "the poor". Presumably in the form of debit cards, or perhaps a lump sum cash payment?

Certainly, all those hospitals, and schools, and charities, and homeless shelters, and care for the elderly and sick and poor isn't "enough". No, the ONLY thing good enough to meet MrEricSir 's standards* is for it to give everything away.

/*of course, MrEricSir hasn't sold his car or his computer to feed the poor, and probably doesn't give even 10% of his income to charity, but that's beside the point.

Do you guys all subscribe to the same newsletter? Is there some talking points memo that went out, or is this some sort of out of control ALT storm?
 
2013-07-08 09:14:23 PM

BojanglesPaladin: MrEricSir: Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.

Yes. You have made it clear that for you, the only acceptable action for the Catholic Church is to liquidate in its entirety and donate the proceeds to "the poor". Presumably in the form of debit cards, or perhaps a lump sum cash payment?

Certainly, all those hospitals, and schools, and charities, and homeless shelters, and care for the elderly and sick and poor isn't "enough". No, the ONLY thing good enough to meet MrEricSir 's standards* is for it to give everything away.

/*of course, MrEricSir hasn't sold his car or his computer to feed the poor, and probably doesn't give even 10% of his income to charity, but that's beside the point.

Do you guys all subscribe to the same newsletter? Is there some talking points memo that went out, or is this some sort of out of control ALT storm?


Funny, I never made a single claim that you're attributing to me. Might want to try Hooked On Phonics, I hear the helps a lot of people learn to read.
 
2013-07-08 09:19:18 PM
Lots of angry apologists in here expecting the rest of us to be happy with empty gestures and happy happy noises coming from the Pope's 'suck hole' as someone above put it so quaintly.

Here's the short of it, gentlemen: The Catholic Church does a lot of good, but not nearly enough for the amount of wealth it has and the moral high that it has historically claimed.

It claims to be the Voice of God on Earth, infallible in matters of Divine intention, but you seem to think that throwing a few million at poverty when you have 'billions upon billions' in revenue and private property, is an okay thing.

Well, as long as those old bastards wrap themselves in silks and eat off golden plates and sit in golden thrones, they have zero credibility when it comes to 'the poor'.  They surround themselves with opulence and decadence and speak of the value of 'pageantry'...as if that means a damned thing to starving people or sickly people, or homeless people.

Get off your Priestly asses and do more for your 'flock' or continue to be mocked and ridiculed as moral hypocrites who expect a pat on the back for donating a few bucks to the poor.
 
2013-07-08 09:23:26 PM

MrEricSir: Funny, I never made a single claim that you're attributing to me. Might want to try Hooked On Phonics, I hear the helps a lot of people learn to read.


Having not read the thread, you will doubtless not have noticed that I have repeated that response to people who keep parroting the inane argument that the Vatican should sell off it's assets.

I claimed you would be satisfied with no less than for the Catholic Church is to liquidate in its entirety  BECAUSE you said, (and I'm quoting YOU here):

MrEricSir: Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.


So maybe you could learn to do some memorization exercises so you can remember your own posts more than 20 minutes later.
 
2013-07-08 09:26:25 PM

BojanglesPaladin: MrEricSir: Funny, I never made a single claim that you're attributing to me. Might want to try Hooked On Phonics, I hear the helps a lot of people learn to read.

Having not read the thread, you will doubtless not have noticed that I have repeated that response to people who keep parroting the inane argument that the Vatican should sell off it's assets.


So you expect everyone to hang off your every word? Nice ego there, really cute.


I claimed you would be satisfied with no less than for the Catholic Church is to liquidate in its entirety  BECAUSE you said, (and I'm quoting YOU here):

MrEricSir: Unless he plans on selling off Vatican city, he can STFU about what his underlings are doing with their cash.

So maybe you could learn to do some memorization exercises so you can remember your own posts more than 20 minutes later.


Maybe you can explain to me how pointing out someone else's hypocrisy means I share their standards? Because that doesn't even begin to make sense.
 
2013-07-08 09:28:21 PM

Infernalist: Get off your Priestly asses and do more for your 'flock' or continue to be mocked and ridiculed as moral hypocrites who expect a pat on the back for donating a few bucks to the poor.


Can you even acknowledge that the Catholic Church DOES, in fact, "get off their asses" and do more for the poor and the needy than any other institution on the planet?

Sure, there is always more that could be done, but can you even acknowledge the breadth and scope of what they do, and the degree to which they already do more and have been for centuries?

I may not agree with the Catholics on a lot of things, but saying they don't help the poor is just spectacularly wrong and ignorant. Can you at least acknowledge that?
 
2013-07-08 09:30:45 PM

MrEricSir: Maybe you can explain to me how pointing out someone else's hypocrisy means I share their standards? Because that doesn't even begin to make sense.


I did not say you shared Catholic standards. I said that you are parroting the same "Sell the Catholic Church or STFU about helping people" talking point memo that so many others here keep repeating.
 
2013-07-08 09:34:03 PM

BojanglesPaladin: MrEricSir: Maybe you can explain to me how pointing out someone else's hypocrisy means I share their standards? Because that doesn't even begin to make sense.

I did not say you shared Catholic standards. I said that you are parroting the same "Sell the Catholic Church or STFU about helping people" talking point memo that so many others here keep repeating.


Nope. Again, you seem to be big on writing posts, not big on reading them. So let's try capital letters in the hope that you can read them better: I'm saying that the pope is hypocritical by his own standards, NOT THAT I AGREE WITH HIS STANDARDS.

Understand now, or do we have to go through all this again?
 
2013-07-08 09:37:06 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Infernalist: Get off your Priestly asses and do more for your 'flock' or continue to be mocked and ridiculed as moral hypocrites who expect a pat on the back for donating a few bucks to the poor.

Can you even acknowledge that the Catholic Church DOES, in fact, "get off their asses" and do more for the poor and the needy than any other institution on the planet?

Sure, there is always more that could be done, but can you even acknowledge the breadth and scope of what they do, and the degree to which they already do more and have been for centuries?

I may not agree with the Catholics on a lot of things, but saying they don't help the poor is just spectacularly wrong and ignorant. Can you at least acknowledge that?


If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd know that I have, repeatedly, acknowledged that the CC has done a lot for the poor.  But, that does NOT justify their stingy efforts in doing so.  The CC is one of the richest organizations in the world AND...they have a stated duty and responsibility to the poor of the world.  They not just acknowledge this, but they claim it, daily, as their duty to do so...

And yet, they do in such limited ways as to inspire nothing but despair and cynicism.  They have BILLIONS of dollars in currency that they absolutely refuse to come clean about.  They have BILLIONS of dollars more in actual real estate that has NOTHING to do with religious sites whatsoever.  They own ISLANDS that they treat as vacation resorts for their hierarchy.  They own billions more in gaudy religious trappings that serve only their own pride and a handful of prideful worshipers.

They are quite literally the acknowledged steward of the poor of this world, but their actual efforts pale in comparison to what they COULD DO if they would just...DO IT.

They could if they truly wanted to do it, but they clearly and plainly DON'T want to do it.

And 'that' is why I ridicule them and mock them and scorn their hypocritical pope.

He is identical to the brash CEO who makes much noise about how he's donating his entire yearly salary of $1 million dollars to charity...neglecting to mention that he's making $200 million in stock options and bonuses for the year.
 
2013-07-08 09:54:28 PM

MrEricSir: Understand now, or do we have to go through all this again?


Duly noted. Have a wonderful evening.

Infernalist: If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd know that I have, repeatedly, acknowledged that the CC has done a lot for the poor.


But, not actually, you know. More than anyone else anywhere by a wide margin? Can't quite bring yourself to actually say it? Does it somehow hurt your narrative of "stingy"? I don't see why it would, but you know better than I.

Infernalist: They are quite literally the acknowledged steward of the poor of this world, but their actual efforts pale in comparison to what they COULD DO if they would just...DO IT.


Is there not also an obligation to protect and preserve some of the finest examples of human achievement the world has ever seen? Should all that be liquidated and melted to scrap? Is there no purpose for art and grandeur that elevates the spirit and inspires? Better to convert it to cash and pay out the poor, I guess.

Infernalist: And yet, they do in such limited ways as to inspire nothing but despair and cynicism.


I have no doubt that you see it that way, As I said upthread, some people are just absolutely perfectly certain in their disdain for the Catholic Church, and no one, not even my own brilliant little ol' self can penetrate that kind of prejudice.

So I will leave you to your strongly held convictions about the Catholic Church.

No need to respond further, but if you follow the established Fark pattern, I'm, sure you will need to post the last word, declare victory, maybe throw in an insult, or whatever else you kids need to do. feel free.

Have a great evening.
 
2013-07-08 10:01:49 PM

Nabb1: CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.

Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Catholics take flak for calling themselves Christian both from people of another/no faith, and also from Christians who don't identify as Catholic.  All Christians expect a certain amount of opposition from the moment they begin entertaining the notion of a deity, but Catholics have to answer for the actions and attitudes of The Roman Catholic Church as well.  The church long ago convinced Catholics that its officers can elevate people to sainthood, and that the opinions of whoever leads it at any time truly carry weight in heaven.  This makes it very difficult for many to see the massive wealth the church has accumulated, the ongoing scandals that accompany the church wherever it goes, even the very vanity of claiming to represent god on earth in the same light as a non-Catholic.
 
2013-07-08 10:07:41 PM

BojanglesPaladin: MrEricSir: Understand now, or do we have to go through all this again?

Duly noted. Have a wonderful evening.

Infernalist: If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd know that I have, repeatedly, acknowledged that the CC has done a lot for the poor.

But, not actually, you know. More than anyone else anywhere by a wide margin? Can't quite bring yourself to actually say it? Does it somehow hurt your narrative of "stingy"? I don't see why it would, but you know better than I.

Infernalist: They are quite literally the acknowledged steward of the poor of this world, but their actual efforts pale in comparison to what they COULD DO if they would just...DO IT.

Is there not also an obligation to protect and preserve some of the finest examples of human achievement the world has ever seen? Should all that be liquidated and melted to scrap? Is there no purpose for art and grandeur that elevates the spirit and inspires? Better to convert it to cash and pay out the poor, I guess.

Infernalist: And yet, they do in such limited ways as to inspire nothing but despair and cynicism.

I have no doubt that you see it that way, As I said upthread, some people are just absolutely perfectly certain in their disdain for the Catholic Church, and no one, not even my own brilliant little ol' self can penetrate that kind of prejudice.

So I will leave you to your strongly held convictions about the Catholic Church.

No need to respond further, but if you follow the established Fark pattern, I'm, sure you will need to post the last word, declare victory, maybe throw in an insult, or whatever else you kids need to do. feel free.

Have a great evening.


Does the truth hurt that bad?

Explain to me, if you wish, why they 'need' billions of dollars in currency and non-religious real estate.  Explain to me why they knowingly accumulate wealth when Christ himself said that it's easier for a camel to walk through the head of a needle than for a rich man to achieve Heaven?

Yes, they do a lot of good, but not nearly as much as they could if they sincerely clung to Christ's teachings regarding wealth.

And that's my biggest problem.  They claim a great authority and moral position in the world and they neglect the very flock that they claim to love.

They should be BETTER THAN THAT.  And that's why I scorn them.

Now, if you consider that an insult, so be it.
 
2013-07-08 11:15:24 PM
lindagailwestrich.ipage.com
 
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