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(Salon)   The Pope says that if priests want to drive fancy cars, they should "think about how many children are dying of hunger in the world." I give him six months to a year   (salon.com) divider line 305
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7137 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 04:10:50 PM  

m00: That's a bad example because I don't think either the Republicans or the Democrats are serious about helping the working poor or people who don't have access to medical care. Last president who actually cared about people was probably Clinton.


Good point.

Infernalist: But he won't do that. So, he's not really serious about helping the poor as much as he could. As much as he 'should'. For the love of god, people see the Pope as the representative of GOD. And if 'he' doesn't care enough about the poor to order the shedding of excess wealth, then let's just farking stop pretending that the Catholic Church cares about the poor.


How much of your own personal assets have you liquidated in order to help the poor? Still have a TV?
 
2013-07-08 04:11:21 PM  
Thinking of sending this article over to my parents, who both claim to be Catholic.  Dad just bought 3rd car- 4th between the both of them- a Mustang.  He gets a new sports car or truck every damn year, and refuses to lease.  Probably has wasted 7 figures over his lifetime, and he still has loans on the car and a mortgage when he's making a quarter mil annually.  My parents are a disgrace.
 
2013-07-08 04:11:26 PM  
Is it me, or people here is mixing few branches of Protestantism with Catholicism?

Personally, I'm not pro or against institutionalized religion.

Churches are organizations created by men, and as such should be regulated, monitored and make sure that don't commit crimes or excess, but I will not deride people for choosing a spiritual path that may diverge with mine.

I like some of the postures that Pope Francis is bringing, and I hope that it ends up with a reconciliation, or at least a truce, between the Church and the people, even those who don't label themselves as Catholics.

/Agnostic
//Annoyed by the "Imaginary Sky Wizard" name...
 
2013-07-08 04:11:36 PM  
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-08 04:13:33 PM  

FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.


I wish he was a little, uhh, more into the gays but I do like the anti-poverty stance.
 
2013-07-08 04:13:36 PM  

Aarontology: m00: That's a bad example because I don't think either the Republicans or the Democrats are serious about helping the working poor or people who don't have access to medical care. Last president who actually cared about people was probably Clinton.

Good point.

Infernalist: But he won't do that. So, he's not really serious about helping the poor as much as he could. As much as he 'should'. For the love of god, people see the Pope as the representative of GOD. And if 'he' doesn't care enough about the poor to order the shedding of excess wealth, then let's just farking stop pretending that the Catholic Church cares about the poor.

How much of your own personal assets have you liquidated in order to help the poor? Still have a TV?


Oh, I'm not the representative of God on Earth, responsible for stewarding the 'bride of Christ' and ordered directly by Christ himself to feed, clothe, shelter and minister to the poor of the world.

When I get 'that' gig, then I'll be serious about shedding what bit of wealth I have.

ps: No, I don't own a TV.
 
2013-07-08 04:14:46 PM  

m00: Pray 4 Mojo: I grew up in the reform branch of Judaism, and had some friends who were reconstructionist. I've seen lesbian rabbis.

See that?

42% of Jews are Reform Jews. It's the largest branch of Judaism. Are you saying that the largest branch of Judaism does not qualify as a major religion? Just want to be clear here.


Yes... apparently I am.

/Did not know that.
 
2013-07-08 04:15:41 PM  
Just to correct a myth that gets brought up ad nauseam in every pope thread, Benedict was not wearing Prada shoes.  They were made by a small Italian cobbler.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/02/26/the-sto ry -of-pope-benedicts-infamous-red-shoes-which-he-will-give-up/
 
2013-07-08 04:16:18 PM  

Abner Doon: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Never.  That doesn't mean that they don't try to make their views on gay marriage, abortion and birth control into law.  Which is even worse than proselytizing.


I tend to give the Church some leeway on abortion. They start with the view (which I do not share) that a a fertilized egg is just as much a person as any other human, just another stage no different than an infant, a toddler, an adolescent or an adult. If that is your starting viewpoint, abortion is as unconscionable as any other murder. It is a moral imperative to oppose it. A human who believes that a zygote is a human must work to end legal abortions, much as I would be morally bound to oppose infanticide were it legal.

Don't get me wrong: the misogyny, pedophilia, homophobia, hypocrisy and belief in magic were more than enough to drive me from Catholicism. But the abortion stance is the only moral stance for a human who believes life begins at conception.
 
2013-07-08 04:19:00 PM  

Cynicism101: FlashHarry: you know, i'm an atheist, but i'm really liking this pope. his focus on the poor and on setting a good example really harkens back to the mission of living a more christ-like existence.

I wish he was a little, uhh, more into the gays but I do like the anti-poverty stance.


The gay stuff in Pauline doctrine, not Christ's teaching. So until we can purge St. Paul from the Church, we're sort of stuck with it. If the church stayed with St. Peter's doctrine "Hey everybody, let's not have sex at all", it wouldn't be much of a problem, and not a very large church at all.
 
2013-07-08 04:20:05 PM  

TheSelphie: Thinking of sending this article over to my parents, who both claim to be Catholic.  Dad just bought 3rd car- 4th between the both of them- a Mustang.  He gets a new sports car or truck every damn year, and refuses to lease.  Probably has wasted 7 figures over his lifetime, and he still has loans on the car and a mortgage when he's making a quarter mil annually.  My parents are a disgrace.


Why is any of that your business?
 
2013-07-08 04:20:34 PM  

torr5962: Catholic Church was never about helping the poor; it was only about spreading the religion. Look at Mother Theresa.

Glad to see this Pope is attempting to be different.


Step away from the Christopher Hitchens and take a deep breath.  You may disagree with her methods, you may not like that she prostelytized, but until YOU give a leper a spange bath with your own two hands, you cannot say she didn't care about the poor.   There is a reason the Poor of Calcutta jammed the streets for miles during her funeral, and it's not because they felt she didn;t give a fark about her.

/ met Mother Teresa once, briefly, had a quality about her I've only ever seen in two other people, and one of them was the Dalai Lama
 
2013-07-08 04:20:52 PM  
Why doesn't God fix it?
 
2013-07-08 04:21:48 PM  
Opulence  Pope-ulence, he still haz it.
 
2013-07-08 04:23:04 PM  

CowboyJeff: No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.
 No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews



www.supermanofsteel.com

Muslims, Jews, and most Protestant denominations just don't have the corporate structure that the Catholics do that can change their policy overnight with the words of 1 man.
Fundamentalists of all stripes are wrong, just in different ways.
Get that?  All wrong.
 
2013-07-08 04:23:33 PM  

colonel.locke: Why doesn't God fix it?


He's more into breaking things with earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, droughts, plagues and the like.
 
HKW
2013-07-08 04:23:59 PM  

blast yer scuppers: HKW:
This is the resulr of making children attend something it doesnt want to do, and/or doesnt understand. You end up with the ...

except that I have no guilt about it whatsoever.


I prefer to check back with you when you have one foot in the grave.
 
2013-07-08 04:24:37 PM  

Infernalist: How many nations were pillaged for that treasure trove, I wonder.


Wonder no more. Do some research. Enlighten us about how much of the Vatican's treasures were the result of plunder in the last 500 years. And to be sure we are being fair, let's compare that with say the Louvre, and the London Museum.

monkey_licker: I'd just like to expand the conversation beyond Catholicism because of my feelings about the issues of inequality in general, and how various religions deal with it specifically. I also think the conversation needs to go beyond clergy/priest/pastor/rabbi/guru to the laity. It is easy to sit back and let the "paid" staff do the hard work while we live in comfort and wealth. We are the Church as a body, not just the people on staff. It is our responsibility, not theirs.


I completely agree with this notion of the responsibility of Christians as individuals. As near as I have been able to determine, Christ repeatedly told his followers to give of themselves directly, and to give the shirt off their own backs, not to see to it that "someone" does the right thing. But tithing, or giving to the church is an effective and pragmatic way to do the greatest good by pooling the resources of the faithful. You and I may each be able to cover the cost of a needy families' medication, but if a whole bunch of us pool money together, the church can build a hospital. And that is a much greater good. The two are not mutually exclusive, of course, and individually, a Christina is called to do both.

Christ was very clear that money doesn't mean shiat, and that you should use your prosperity to help those less fortunate, And that insomuch as all success is by the grace of god, you don't "own" that success, anyway and should give of it freely.  What I find particularly maddening and frankly disgusting are the money priests peddling the notion that "accepting Jesus into your heart" will lead to financial success. This seems to be the very epitome of "false prophets leading the sheep astray", not to mention a terrible notion for society.

monkey_licker: And while I understand that the pope doesn't own the things he uses, he presents a powerful image in eschewing the trappings of wealth that have attended his position. It forces people to take a step back and engage in a bit of self examination. It may not make a substantive difference, but symbolism can be powerful in its own right.


The opulence of the Papacy *IS* certainly symbolic, but I'm not sure it is symbolic of what you may think it is. Not to get all theological, but every Catholic knows that the Pope is in the trappings of the CHURCH, and the Church is a vast and powerful entity as befits the emissary of the almighty. The pageantry and tradition and accumulated grandiosity of two millennia serve to illustrate the majesty of the Church of Peter. And it truly is awe inspiring if you have ever been there. It unequivocally re-enforces the idea that  all things are possible when the effort is directed toward the glory of god. It is supposed to be spectacular, and awesome, and beyond the every day.

But it is the Church, not the man. And that is an extremely important distinction that the Catholic church is very careful about, and that these carnival prosperity preachers fundamentally misunderstand and distort.
 
2013-07-08 04:26:25 PM  
Jesus is pretty specific about cars--he tells the apostles to all be of one Accord.
 
2013-07-08 04:26:30 PM  

HKW: I prefer to check back with you when you have one foot in the grave.


That's the plan!

Just ask for forgiveness on my death bed and I still get into Heaven.

/Always look for the loophole.
 
2013-07-08 04:27:33 PM  
If I've learned anything from this thread is that apparently there is an entire army of militant Catholics out there

Who....Knew
 
2013-07-08 04:27:48 PM  

Lydia_C: scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).

Just FTR, Catholics don't "find Jesus" - that's an evangelical thing. One of the key differences between Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity is in fact the insistence by evangelicals on having a "personal relationship with Jesus," which runs counter to Catholics needing to attend Mass communally and having the priest as intercessor. Catholics also commonly refer to "Christ," rather than "Jesus." And Tuesday night Bible studies is definitely not a done thing for adults; in fact, any formal religious study by adults is generally done only by those converting. Kids are rather the recipients of Catholic religious indoctrination, through after-school or weekend classes if they don't attend parochial schools, because a certain amount of education is required before one can receive the sacraments of Holy Communion and Confirmation.


I'll second or "fifth" the notion others have expressed that this is highly unusual.  However I have noticed a new fundamentalism taking place which is outside the norm and this might be part of it.  It involves young priests, homeschoolers (the Rick Santorum folks).  It's very "evangelical-like".  It is antithetical to catholicism however to homeschool your children.  As someone has pointed out the entire point is communalism and the church not individual instruction or faith.  Traiditional catholicism looks a whole lot like the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding".  I realize it's Orthodoxy in that film but same thing.
 
2013-07-08 04:31:53 PM  
Drive the fancy car, and customize it with a rear-window In Memorium to "all the starving children of the world".
 
2013-07-08 04:32:19 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.


Agreed. If this really is Catholicism, it's an utter first in my experience.
 
2013-07-08 04:33:26 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Infernalist: How many nations were pillaged for that treasure trove, I wonder.

Wonder no more. Do some research. Enlighten us about how much of the Vatican's treasures were the result of plunder in the last 500 years. And to be sure we are being fair, let's compare that with say the Louvre, and the London Museum.

monkey_licker: I'd just like to expand the conversation beyond Catholicism because of my feelings about the issues of inequality in general, and how various religions deal with it specifically. I also think the conversation needs to go beyond clergy/priest/pastor/rabbi/guru to the laity. It is easy to sit back and let the "paid" staff do the hard work while we live in comfort and wealth. We are the Church as a body, not just the people on staff. It is our responsibility, not theirs.

I completely agree with this notion of the responsibility of Christians as individuals. As near as I have been able to determine, Christ repeatedly told his followers to give of themselves directly, and to give the shirt off their own backs, not to see to it that "someone" does the right thing. But tithing, or giving to the church is an effective and pragmatic way to do the greatest good by pooling the resources of the faithful. You and I may each be able to cover the cost of a needy families' medication, but if a whole bunch of us pool money together, the church can build a hospital. And that is a much greater good. The two are not mutually exclusive, of course, and individually, a Christina is called to do both.

Christ was very clear that money doesn't mean shiat, and that you should use your prosperity to help those less fortunate, And that insomuch as all success is by the grace of god, you don't "own" that success, anyway and should give of it freely.  What I find particularly maddening and frankly disgusting are the money priests peddling the notion that "accepting Jesus into your heart" will lead to financial success. This seems to be the very epitome of "false prophe ...


So, pre-500 years ago, that pillaging doesn't count.  Got it.  Also, it's cute how you try to distract by bringing in non-"I SPEAK FOR GOD" targets like the Louvre and the English government.

Yeah,the poor and starving, sick and dying in South America, Africa, and the rest of the world that the Catholic rely on for their tithes and support, I don't think they give a single fark about the pageantry and opulence of the Catholic Church's nonsense.  They're more concerned with food and shelter and not dying.
 
2013-07-08 04:39:58 PM  

Magorn: IBM digitized almost the entire Vatican Library collection a decade aago and the Vatican has it available online now.


Yeah, but not the GOOD stuff, that Dan Brown and the esoteric fanatics all tell us is in the SECRET Archives.

Which is probably good, because if the Necronomicon were put on the internet, we would probably all be transported to the realm of the cenobites, and that would be a real dick move for the Pope to make.
 
2013-07-08 04:42:57 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: scottydoesntknow: Pray 4 Mojo: you have pee hands: I think it's more that the Jews as a group aren't really trying to enforce their beliefs on anyone

When is the last time you were proselytized to by a Catholic?

Last week for me. One of my friends (who was a huge drinker/smoker/partier) suddenly found Jesus and now it's all he ever talks about. I can't even have a conversation with him without it turning to his Tuesday bible studies and how I should go because I need Jesus.

Hell he gave my girlfriend 2 CDs for her birthday 2 weeks ago. Both of them were sermons about something (we haven't watched them yet).

Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.

The bible study might be non-denominational (I'm not entirely sure), but he is 100% Catholic.

He kinda pissed me off over the weekend as we were at a house-warming party where one of my friends got really drunk (as he usually does) and my other friend texted us saying we need to watch him and make sure he's ok. The reborn one actually said (and I'm typing this word for word from my texts)
"I know."
"He needs to go to church."
"The only way he will stop drinking is if God changes him"

I can't even have a conversation with the guy anymore without it being turned into some way to get me (or others) to go to church.


He's a converted Catholic. Everyone who converts is going to be all annoying about it. No real Catholic would biatch about someone being drunk. It's basically in our doctrine that beer and gambling be available at all social gatherings.
 
2013-07-08 04:43:15 PM  

Nabb1: CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.

Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally.  Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked.  The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Ehh. we Catholics, being the world Majority world religion are big boys and can stand a little bashing, especially when not a little of it is well deserved.  I've always said a patriot owes his country nothing less than a passionate, informed,  and vigiliant skepticism of his government's every action; and I feel the same way about someone who want to declare themselves a devout adherent to a religion.   Especially when it comes to the earthly actions of that faith
 
2013-07-08 04:43:33 PM  

Infernalist: So, pre-500 years ago, that pillaging doesn't count.


No, he had a salient point, and if you read my comments above you'll see that I'm probably more on your side than anything. It's not about when it happened, it's about whether it happened at all. He presented you with a challenge to prove what they had was the result of pillage.

St. Peter's Basilica itself, what a treasure trove of priceless art.

How many nations were pillaged for that treasure trove, I wonder.


So the point is that St Peter's Basilica itself is not something that was pillaged for. Now you say what in it was pillaged or how it was funded by the fruits of pillagings.
 
2013-07-08 04:43:51 PM  

Infernalist: So, pre-500 years ago, that pillaging doesn't count. Got it.


OK. How about no limits at all. Go nuts. Demonstrate how much of the Vatican's works were taken by conquest.

Give us a run-down of what percentage of the Vatican's collection was procured via conquest verses the Louvre or the London Museum specifically because they have no religious associations.

Infernalist: Yeah,the poor and starving, sick and dying in South America, Africa, and the rest of the world that the Catholic rely on for their tithes and support, I don't think they give a single fark about the pageantry and opulence of the Catholic Church's nonsense. They're more concerned with food and shelter and not dying.


Again you might want to research who, exactly are the world's largest charitable organizations, and who provides more free health care, and education to the needy in the world before you start criticizing that particular institution.
 
2013-07-08 04:44:47 PM  

bearcats1983: It's basically in our doctrine that beer and gambling be available at all social gatherings.


Bingo.

/see what I did there?
 
2013-07-08 04:45:57 PM  

Nabb1: Every Catholic thread on this site ends up looking like a Klan rally. Pull something like this with any other faith, and the thread would get yanked. The fact is anti-Catholic bigotry is alive, well, and de rigeur in this country and especially on this website.


Nice ... taking it up a notch from "Help, help, we christians are being oppressed" to "help, help, forget the christians, we catholics are really being oppressed".

We are never going to forget that the catholic church is a criminal organization that has not paid for the crimes of protecting and enabling the widespread rape of children. They put profits and fear of bad press ahead of the welfare of children.

So you can white-knight these scumbags all you want ... doesn't change what they are.
 
2013-07-08 04:46:07 PM  

jack21221: Yogimus: Explain to me how driving Yugos will feed the starving masses.

Consider the following 2 examples:

Priest buys a new Mercedes for 35,000.

Priest buys a new Chevy for 15,000, and donates 15,000 to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

That's how.


Priest buys mercedes for 35,000.  Mercedes gets sold, and a long stream of people continue to be employed. They then buy goods, and utilize services that employ OTHER people... versus Priest gives 15,000 to a soup kitchen... feeds people.
 
2013-07-08 04:49:06 PM  
What kind of van does a priest drive? Party van?
 
2013-07-08 04:49:31 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Okay, but did he then hop into his bulletproof popemobile and tool around his jewel-encrusted city?

/glass houses and stones, people


From the article:
Since succeeding Pope Benedict in March, the former cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina has eschewed some of the more ostentatious trappings of his office and has chosen to live in a Vatican guest house rather than the opulent papal apartments.
The ANSA news agency said the pope's car of choice for moving around the walled Vatican City was a compact Ford Focus.
He's walking the walk so far....
 
2013-07-08 04:52:04 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Again you might want to research who, exactly are the world's largest charitable organizations, and who provides more free health care, and education to the needy in the world before you start criticizing that particular institution.


Shhhhhh don't let facts get in the way of his impotent rage
 
2013-07-08 04:52:52 PM  

Yogimus: Priest buys mercedes for 35,000. Mercedes gets sold, and a long stream of people continue to be employed. They then buy goods, and utilize services that employ OTHER people... versus Priest gives 15,000 to a soup kitchen... feeds people.


Or priest gives the money to a charity that helps people get back on their feet and helps them become employable and find jobs. Or to a charity that builds wells for villages or brings computers to areas without this opportunity for education. No need to single out this one charity to compare against ... unless that's the only one that fits the propaganda you want to spread.

Of course, "just feeding people" isn't a horrible thing either.
 
2013-07-08 04:55:27 PM  

dmcman73: He's walking the walk so far....


How about liquidating 10% of the vast wealth of the vatican and using the money to help child rape victims. That would be a start ... and might help some of the churches victims who will be suffering for the rest of their lives.

Having the pope not use a few things but still keeping them is not really helping anyone.
 
2013-07-08 04:58:25 PM  

Yogimus: jack21221: Yogimus: Explain to me how driving Yugos will feed the starving masses.

Consider the following 2 examples:

Priest buys a new Mercedes for 35,000.

Priest buys a new Chevy for 15,000, and donates 15,000 to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

That's how.

Priest buys mercedes for 35,000.  Mercedes gets sold, and a long stream of people continue to be employed. They then buy goods, and utilize services that employ OTHER people... versus Priest gives 15,000 to a soup kitchen... feeds people.


So are you saying that if all the priests in the Catholic religion kept buying consumer goods, it would solve the unemployment and financial crisis the world is going through? BRILLIANT!
 
2013-07-08 04:58:33 PM  

CowboyJeff: I really love progressives who actually expect the Catholic church to give up its 2000 doctrainal views on Marriage and Homosexuality.  As if the Church should changes its views to accomidate Western Progressives.  No one in the media says, great, now that we have a new chief Rabbi in Isreal, may be the Jews will relax its views on eating pork and working on the weekend.  No expects the Muslems to give up any of their views either.   The Pope is not evil because he is against gay marriage or gay priests, that is the doctrine of the Church.  A group that includes more than Western liberals.  You know, I love Fark, and have been on since the beginning, but I am really sick of the rank anti-Catholic bigotry that exists on this site.  No one would tolerate any comments like this against Jews, so why all the hate against Catholics?  Every major religon preaches against homosexulaity and gay marriage, so why pick on Catholics?  Drew, seriously, I know that you are looking for more commerical sponsors ont this page, please consider that attacking Christians is not "hip" its is just biogtry.


I'm Catholic and I hate other Catholics and the Catholic Church in general ... it's not bigotry, it's stupid, asinine, backwards shiat that prevents real discussion about real issues from happening.

Oh, the local priest who had been abusing boys since the 1950s was just moved 5 miles down the road ... to another Church ... just another day in "As The World Turns in the Catholic Church" ...
 
2013-07-08 04:58:56 PM  

Farking Canuck: We are never going to forget that the catholic church is a criminal organization that has not paid for the crimes of protecting and enabling the widespread rape of children. They put profits and fear of bad press ahead of the welfare of children.


Then you should also never forget the millions of people Catholics have fed, clothed, educated and cared for. They put the needs of others before their own and did things that you would probably never consider doing (changing the diapers of a dying person anyone, anyone, Bueller?).

I'm not denying that the child molestation issue is huge and needs to be dealt with, but I don't think you can ignore the good that they have done.

/not a Catholic
//not a paid spokesperson
 
2013-07-08 05:00:32 PM  
EFFIN' A, FRANCIS!

Former Catholic, now humanist/agnostic/whatever who shows up on Ash Wednesday... but goddammit*, THIS is the church I knew growing up.  Then our pastor fell in love with a woman and we got the equivalent of a gold-digger to replace him (middle class Detroit suburb gold digger, but still, had to have his house all remodeled, fired any long term staff, started cutting back on masses, etc... last I heard he "merged" effing Midnight Mass with another parish.  The parish was pretty respectable, parishioner number wise - lots of Polish, Irish, Filipino, Vietmanese immigrants and their descendents attending, never an empty pew although maybe a few seats here and there - but he's pretty determined to run it into the ground).

But still.  There's a reason I chose Claire as my confirmation name, despite the Breakfast Club.

Keep going in the right direction, man.

* ah, the guilt about using goddammit talking about the church makes a girl think she never left!
 
2013-07-08 05:01:42 PM  

dmcman73: Yogimus: jack21221: Yogimus: Explain to me how driving Yugos will feed the starving masses.

Consider the following 2 examples:

Priest buys a new Mercedes for 35,000.

Priest buys a new Chevy for 15,000, and donates 15,000 to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

That's how.

Priest buys mercedes for 35,000.  Mercedes gets sold, and a long stream of people continue to be employed. They then buy goods, and utilize services that employ OTHER people... versus Priest gives 15,000 to a soup kitchen... feeds people.

So are you saying that if all the priests in the Catholic religion kept buying consumer goods, it would solve the unemployment and financial crisis the world is going through? BRILLIANT!


BTW, it would be far better for the priests to donate their time in educating the poor to try and give them skills, donate food et all so that these people can actually get a job with skills. A priest buying a mercedes only to sell it too.....hmm...who would he sell it too since the only person that could afford it is the one that already bought it?
 
2013-07-08 05:02:34 PM  

MooseUpNorth: Pray 4 Mojo: Wow. Are you sure he's Catholic? "Bible Study" really isn't their thing. At least... in my extensive experience with Catholics.

Agreed. If this really is Catholicism, it's an utter first in my experience.


I'd almost be willing to bet hard money--especially if that "Bible study" involves the Alpha Course or something similar--that we're in fact dealing with a church that is functionally Catholic In Name Only and in fact has been steeplejacked--taken over from within--by NARasitic dominionists (the Alpha Course would be a dead giveaway with that, there's a few other courses used in "Adult bible studies" and similar lay ministries that also tend to be a dead giveaway).

Basically, Catholic churches have been very aggressively targeted by NARasite neopentecostals (particularly the Assemblies of God and their daughter denominations like Vineyard and "nondenominational" NARasitic megachurches) for the better part of fifty years running, and the typical method of "takeover from within" is getting a few NARasites to join a Catholic church (or converting people who are already members--interestingly enough, anti-reproductive-health circles tend to be popular cross-fertilisation ground for this sort of thing due to the mix of conservative Catholics and Protestant dominionists), and those "NARasitised Catholics" from there tend to start lay ministries designed to pretty much indoctrinate members into NARasite theology.

Singapore and Latin America in particular have had a bad problem with this, and even parts of the US do (to the point that IMNSHO any "Catholic Charismatic" group should be treated as NARasitic until proven otherwise)--and seriously, the sort of thing that the original poster (with the obnoxiously religiomaniac friend) is sufficiently "out there" in comparison to traditional Catholicism that I have to seriously think he's either gotten in with a steeplejacked Catholic church or a Catholic church in the process of being steeplejacked (probably one with a very non-negligible percentage of "Catholic Charismatics", at that).

/full disclosure--have been working with a non-dominionist ecumenical group on a "How to prevent hostile takeovers by dominionists" seminar for clergy
//would strongly recommend the OP to read John Dorhauer's "Steeplejacking" for an example of how ONE dominionist group (the IRD) does it; pretty much all the explicitly NARasitic groups do it the same way and have been doing it considerably longer than the IRD
 
2013-07-08 05:03:40 PM  

Farking Canuck: dmcman73: He's walking the walk so far....

How about liquidating 10% of the vast wealth of the vatican and using the money to help child rape victims. That would be a start ... and might help some of the churches victims who will be suffering for the rest of their lives.

Having the pope not use a few things but still keeping them is not really helping anyone.


You'll always have rape victims, but you won't always have Jesus's money.

10% of the wealth could end poverty around the world in a myriad of ways, but if you let a committee hand it out based on feelings, rather than cold hard financial sensibilities then it'll go to waste. A generation later than 10% will be watered down to nothing, and millions will still die from preventable causes.

Or does that make me sound heartless?

Also don't put politicians or bankers in charge of that 10%, as they would only waste it. You have to give it to me. I'm the only person I trust to do it properly.
 
2013-07-08 05:04:59 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Aarontology: Shostie: serial_crusher: Also I just noticed the license plate on the popemobile is "SCV 1".  Maybe he'll mine some vespene gas while he's out there.

POPE RUSH! KEKEKE

WE REQUIRE MORE CONGREGANTS

YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PAPALS


In the rear, with the gear!
 
2013-07-08 05:07:21 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Again you might want to research who, exactly are the world's largest charitable organizations, and who provides more free health care, and education to the needy in the world before you start criticizing that particular institution.


But are they doing the things that work to raise people out of poverty?  Education for men AND women and free access to birth control so women can have control of their reproductive health?  Or do they continue to preach against birth control?
 
2013-07-08 05:09:24 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: bearcats1983: It's basically in our doctrine that beer and gambling be available at all social gatherings.

Bingo.

/see what I did there?


Loved it, laughed more than I probably should have.

I've been on fark long enough to know the official religion here is Catholic hate. Who doesn't enjoy painting with the broad brush?
 
2013-07-08 05:10:56 PM  

Farking Canuck: dmcman73: He's walking the walk so far....

How about liquidating 10% of the vast wealth of the vatican and using the money to help child rape victims. That would be a start ... and might help some of the churches victims who will be suffering for the rest of their lives.

Having the pope not use a few things but still keeping them is not really helping anyone.


And auctioning off heritage to the highest bidder (which would more than likely be a private party who would keep the precious squirreled away) isn't a long term solution to anything either.


monkey_licker: Then you should also never forget the millions of people Catholics have fed, clothed, educated and cared for. They put the needs of others before their own and did things that you would probably never consider doing (changing the diapers of a dying person anyone, anyone, Bueller?).

I'm not denying that the child molestation issue is huge and needs to be dealt with, but I don't think you can ignore the good that they have done.

/not a Catholic
//not a paid spokesperson

The problem is the Catholic institutions and people who really, really do DAMN good work are also for some silly reason (coughJesus'Examplecough) *really* humble about their work.  So you get douchebags like Donahue getting media attention as opposed to priests working in the inner cities to make sure people have their nutritional, shelter, and spiritual needs met.


I'm not ignoring the child abuse - it needs to be addressed properly, at the very least, someone needs to take a swing at the institutional walls that allowed it to become so insidiously widespread (c'mon, Francis).  But dammit, there's some amazing work being done - and those who really believe will never, ever refuse you help because you aren't Catholic.  First and foremost, help your fellow man.



Prayer of St. Francis (we sang this *a lot* growing up)


1. Make me a channel of your peace:
Where there is hatred, let me bring you love;
Where there is injury, your healing pow'r,
And where there's doubt, true faith in you.

2. Make me a channel of your peace:
Where there's despair in life let me bring hope;
Where there is darkness, - only light,
And where there's sadness, ever joy.

3. O Spirit, grant that I may never seek
So much to be consolded as to console,
To be understood as to understand,
To be loved as to love with all my soul - .

4. Make me a channel of your peace.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
In giving to all that we receive,
And in dying that we're born to eternal life.



Kurt Vonnegut:

About belief or lack of belief in an afterlife: Some of you may know that I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Buddhist, nor a conventionally religious person of any sort.
I am a humanist, which mean, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without any expectation of rewards or punishments after I'm dead. My German-American ancestors, the earliest of whom settled in our Middle West about the time of our Civil War, called themselves "Freethinkers," which is the same sort of thing. My great grandfather Clemens Vonnegut wrote, for example, "If what Jesus said was good, what can it matter whether he was God or not?"
I myself have written, "If it weren't for the message of mercy and pity in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't want to be a human being. I would just as soon be a rattlesnake."
 
2013-07-08 05:14:10 PM  
It is good that Francis is able to articulate what the Church has always taught so that the press will actually report on it competently. It is sad that we will still have to suffer the usual ignorance despite that.
 
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