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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5212 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 04:55:40 PM  

creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.


If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.
 
2013-07-08 04:55:53 PM  

jaybeezey: FACT: You aren't sure what the facts are in this case.


Quiz me!
 
2013-07-08 04:56:08 PM  

nekom: Elegy: Aguing now about removing the motion of limiting and allowing the toxicology reports on Martin to be heard by the jury.

I don't really see how that's relevant, but then I didn't think Zimmerman's college courses were either.  Martin smoked pot.  Big deal.  So did I at his age.  Non-story on that one.


I know that pot affects people in differently, and usually wouldn't make someone more aggressive. But, here, the jury has heard a recording of George saying that the kid looked like he was on drugs so, if the kid really was on drugs allowing the tox report shows that Zim wasn't just picking on this kid b/c he was "walking while black" or whatever.
 
2013-07-08 04:56:39 PM  

Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.


Once again, not relevant.  If anything, withdrawing from drugs makes you irritable if you're going to beat that overworked cliche.
 
2013-07-08 04:57:57 PM  

Abuse Liability: was not intoxicated at the time of the incident


Dr. Bao said he was.  After he said he wasn't.  Then he said it had no effect, or some effect.  Or somewhere in between.  This is opinion.  No fact.
 
2013-07-08 04:58:26 PM  
creepy ass-cracka:
I know that pot affects people in differently, and usually wouldn't make someone more aggressive. But, here, the jury has heard a recording of George saying that the kid looked like he was on drugs so, if the kid really was on drugs allowing the tox report shows that Zim wasn't just picking on this kid b/c he was "walking while black" or whatever.

I suppose it speaks to his credibility, I just don't see pot as a big deal.  Traces of cocaine MAYBE, but it's not really clear from what they're saying exactly how much a "trace" is.  Weed, hell alcohol is worse than that.  A drunk driver will run a stop sign.  A stoned driver will sit there and wait for it to turn green.
 
2013-07-08 04:58:51 PM  

Cletus C.: If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.


It absolutely does not rule it out.
 
2013-07-08 04:59:02 PM  

The Muthaship: Abuse Liability: was not intoxicated at the time of the incident

Dr. Bao said he was.  After he said he wasn't.  Then he said it had no effect, or some effect.  Or somewhere in between.  This is opinion.  No fact.


Give him a break, he was under the oath.
 
2013-07-08 04:59:44 PM  

Tatsuma: I will say this, listening to a father talking about how he learned he lost his son is pretty damn sad.


Maybe he should have known where his kid was. Hell until I joined the Army at 18 I was required to let my folks know where I was and aprox when I would be back. How people let their kids just roam at night is crazy.
 
2013-07-08 04:59:55 PM  

Elegy: Richardson ruling in favor of the defense.

The balance of rulings is starting to even out now tht the defense has taken over.



That sort of makes sense.  Each side has had months to think about why any evidence that they want to present should be admissible but the other side has to stand up and object in real time, by the seat of their pants...
 
2013-07-08 05:00:26 PM  
The THC shows that Z was probably correct in his judgement that M looked like he was on drugs. If the tox report showed that there were no drugs, the state would bring this up and say that Z was profiling. Since there is THC present, the defense should be able to use this info to show that Z was correct.
 
2013-07-08 05:01:28 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Magorn

and that's a fair point, there are those exploiting race on both sides of the argument, but I do find it more prevalent among Zimmerman;s defenders...

I won't question your subjective impression, but might assert that this may appear so because (in my impression) there are a lot more "Zimmerman defenders" than "Martin defenders" these days. If we were to assume there are a roughly equal percentage of racist asshats on both "sides," you'd see more on the "pro-Zimmerman" side mainly because the most ardent "Martin supporters" seem to have largely disappeared from these threads since the trial started.

But I could be completely wrong.

/shrug


If you're saying that the total number of possible racists in this thread leans toward the ZImmerman camp based on equal rates of racism on each side but more Zimmerman supporters being on the boards because the Martin defenders won't come back to the threads once the relevant facts of the case were revealed, i'd say you were statistically correct.

however, i'd say that in the beginning, the pro-trayvon folks were basing the whole trial on race and therefor showed a greater degree of possible racism.
 
2013-07-08 05:01:29 PM  

Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you Parnoid violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.


FTFY
A paranoid person being followed by a crazy ass cracker who has beaten up a snitch before - not a high likelihood for a pleasant confrontation
 
2013-07-08 05:01:55 PM  

TheWhoppah: Elegy: Richardson ruling in favor of the defense.

The balance of rulings is starting to even out now tht the defense has taken over.


That sort of makes sense.  Each side has had months to think about why any evidence that they want to present should be admissible but the other side has to stand up and object in real time, by the seat of their pants...


The toxicology and the animation will both go to the prosecution.
 
2013-07-08 05:02:06 PM  

s2s2s2: jaybeezey: FACT: You aren't sure what the facts are in this case.

Quiz me!


Q: Rachel Jeantelhas been described at various times as Martin's "girlfriend." Does that mean he did that? And who was on top? Please demonstrate.
 
2013-07-08 05:02:08 PM  

creepy ass-cracka: The THC shows that Z was probably correct in his judgement that M looked like he was on drugs. If the tox report showed that there were no drugs, the state would bring this up and say that Z was profiling. Since there is THC present, the defense should be able to use this info to show that Z was correct.


DING DING DING!
 
2013-07-08 05:02:39 PM  

s2s2s2: Cletus C.: If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

It absolutely does not rule it out.


Good lord. If anything would send these threads from "Maximum Trolling" to "Plaid" it would be a "Martin was hopped up on goofballs" defense.
 
2013-07-08 05:04:01 PM  

ObnoxiousLonghorn: What is funny, is if they DID, Z would still walk.


Yeah tomorrow's motion is

'Permission to strike everything the prosecution said so far, as we find it prejudicial for the prosecution's case'.
 
2013-07-08 05:04:06 PM  

Abuse Liability: Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

Once again, not relevant.  If anything, withdrawing from drugs makes you irritable if you're going to beat that overworked cliche.


People suffer withdrawal from pot? I'm learning a lot about marijuana here.
 
2013-07-08 05:05:00 PM  

Netrngr: Tatsuma: I will say this, listening to a father talking about how he learned he lost his son is pretty damn sad.

Maybe he should have known where his kid was. Hell until I joined the Army at 18 I was required to let my folks know where I was and aprox when I would be back. How people let their kids just roam at night is crazy.


I was walking home around 12:30 AM on Friday and there was a family of 5, with three kids who couldn't have been older than 4 or 5, just chilling near the 7/11 by my apartment. Some people are just horrible parents. There was a 5 yr old who got shot on the south side at 1 AM because his parents had taken him to a park.
 
2013-07-08 05:05:46 PM  
s2s2s2:
Quiz me!

I'll throw you a curve ball.  IF Zimmerman had attacked Martin first (and I am not claiming that he did),  Martin  got the uppper hand and then Zimmerman, fearing for his life, shot him.  Would his self defense claim still be valid?
 
2013-07-08 05:05:56 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you Parnoid violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

FTFY
A paranoid person being followed by a crazy ass cracker who has beaten up a snitch before - not a high likelihood for a pleasant confrontation


Pot paranoia makes you flee, if anything. Usually to hide behind the potted plant.
 
2013-07-08 05:06:11 PM  

Tatsuma: And 16? Try 40-50 at his biggest, and then around 25-30 when he was arrested.


Didn't the PA say that she measured him at 31 BMI during her examination of him?
 
2013-07-08 05:07:58 PM  
jaybeezey

If you're saying that the total number of possible racists in this thread leans toward the ZImmerman camp based on equal rates of racism on each side but more Zimmerman supporters being on the boards because the Martin defenders won't come back to the threads once the relevant facts of the case were revealed, i'd say you were statistically correct.

That's exactly what I was saying.

however, i'd say that in the beginning, the pro-trayvon folks were basing the whole trial on race and therefor showed a greater degree of possible racism.

It was certainly odd (and continues to be) how so many people can ignore reality to insist on their "a white guy killed a black guy, 'cause racism!" narrative. Outright bizarre. How invested in hating white people do you have to be to hate people you incorrectly think are white and wish for their suffering? Creepy.
 
2013-07-08 05:08:37 PM  

Cletus C.: Q: Rachel Jeantelhas been described at various times as Martin's "girlfriend." Does that mean he did that? And who was on top? Please demonstrate.


A: Martin was actually gay. The use of the term "girlfriend" was the colloquial sisterhood version.
As to the issue of who was on bottom, the demonstration happened on Feb 26th, 2012:

Zimmerman was cruising to do some bruising, but as he is a bottom, that is exactly how he ended up. Trayvon's actual last words were "But you didn't use the safe word."

FACT


/Hell
//Handbasket is too good for me
///Threes
 
2013-07-08 05:08:38 PM  

Abuse Liability: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

The levels of THC found in his blood were about 1.5 ng/ml.  This means its had probably been anywhere from 3-12 hours since he had smoked last  (depending on the size of the joint and THC content) and was not intoxicated at the time of the incident.  The drug thing needs to be dropped like the racism shtick.  It's not relevant.  Kids do drugs, but drugs aren't solely responsible for all their stupid decisions.


The state's expert witness claimed that if Martin were an occasional user, these levels meant he had smoked within the past few hours. The ME or toxicologist corrected his statement to state that Martin WOULD have likely been impaired to some extent at these levels.

That combined with Martin swaying at the counter of 7-11 (if you haven't seen the video, watch it - it's a blatant lie for the prosecution to claim he wasn't) and George Zimmerman's statement that Trayvon "looked like he was on drugs" (while his group of statements including that is being used to show a racial prejudice against Trayvon) makes this information highly relevant. For someone to not see that is absurd.
 
2013-07-08 05:09:17 PM  

nekom: I'll throw you a curve ball.  IF Zimmerman had attacked Martin first (and I am not claiming that he did),  Martin  got the uppper hand and then Zimmerman, fearing for his life, shot him.  Would his self defense claim still be valid?


Yes. Even as the aggressor, Zimmerman can use deadly force if he is unable to flee. Since we have a witness that sees Trayvon on top of Zimmerman moments before the shot is fired, we can say that Zimmerman was unable to flee.
 
2013-07-08 05:09:47 PM  

Treygreen13: Good lord. If anything would send these threads from "Maximum Trolling" to "Plaid" it would be a "Martin was hopped up on goofballs" defense.


I only think it is relevant so far as "he looked like he was on drugs, and in fact was."
 
2013-07-08 05:10:09 PM  
Looks like the black chick on CNN drew the short straw again.
 
2013-07-08 05:10:12 PM  
TOXICOLOGY IS IN.
 
2013-07-08 05:10:46 PM  

Netrngr: Tatsuma: I will say this, listening to a father talking about how he learned he lost his son is pretty damn sad.

Maybe he should have known where his kid was. Hell until I joined the Army at 18 I was required to let my folks know where I was and aprox when I would be back. How people let their kids just roam at night is crazy.


Well, Zimmerman made sure he was punished for it. And it won't happen again.
 
2013-07-08 05:12:41 PM  

NightOwl2255: Well, Zimmerman made sure he was punished for it*. And it won't happen again.


*And what else? It's ok. You are safe here. You can actually refer to all the stuff that happened between "was out" and "was 'punished'."
 
2013-07-08 05:12:46 PM  
If Trayvon was high as shiat, you must acquit!!!!!
 
2013-07-08 05:12:52 PM  

Cletus C.: Abuse Liability: Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

Once again, not relevant.  If anything, withdrawing from drugs makes you irritable if you're going to beat that overworked cliche.

People suffer withdrawal from pot? I'm learning a lot about marijuana here.


chronic use of any drug Produces lasting Cellular changes. As your body returns to homeostasis, you withdraw due to lack of receptor stimulation. withdrawal Is mild with most drugs, but benzo's and nmda receptor antagonists can kill you
 
2013-07-08 05:13:04 PM  

ferretman: washington-babylon: nekom: This text is now purple:
You're going to have to help out with that slavery-as-origin-of-racism angle. The Irish suffered under German racism, but I don't see much slavery having gone on to cause it.

Oh sure racism has existed pretty much since human civilization has.  I just think that slavery was a key factor in it in the case of the USA.  There was a time when it was common for a LOT of people to actually believe that they were less than human, inferior and not fit to live amongst us, even some who argued that slavery was to their benefit.  That's why even after slavery officially ended, blacks were viewed as inferior and treated as such for many many generations.  It takes a LONG time to heal those kind of wounds.

I find it humorous that so many people think that Slavery=Black People in fields. There was a large amount of whites enslaved in the U.S. and other places around the world at the same time. A large portion of these were Irish (in fact, a certain book called "Kidnapped" by R.L. Stevenson was written with this as a main plot point). A great many of these people were stolen children, either orphans or children of families who were of the wrong religious or political faction.  Now, I will agree that the majority that were enslaved were Black (or Native American) especially toward the 1860's, I just wish to point out that there were victims from MANY races. This fact is not taught in grade schools today, and has been all but forgotten by most people in the U.S. The last places that it is seriously discussed are obscure history journals and the occasional rare college history lecture.

[s3.amazonaws.com image 550x375]

Only Blacks were slaves!!!!!


Ok, that made me laugh.
 
2013-07-08 05:13:23 PM  
Trayvon Martin's drug of choice was U4EA. Fact.
 
2013-07-08 05:13:36 PM  

jaybeezey: however, i'd say that in the beginning, the pro-trayvon folks were basing the whole trial on race and therefor showed a greater degree of possible racism.


When you are so racist that you have to change someone's race to fit your narrative, you should probably step back and evaluate your life.
 
2013-07-08 05:13:45 PM  

Cletus C.: tenpoundsofcheese: Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you Parnoid violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

FTFY
A paranoid person being followed by a crazy ass cracker who has beaten up a snitch before - not a high likelihood for a pleasant confrontation

Pot paranoia makes you flee, if anything. Usually to hide behind the potted plant.


Not everyone reacts the same way to paranoia.  There is fight and flight.
 
2013-07-08 05:14:18 PM  

redmid17: Netrngr: Tatsuma:
There was a 5 yr old who got shot on the south side at 1 AM because his parents had taken him to a park.


I would like to believe that you should not get shot at a park, no matter the time of day. But seriously, those parents were likely involved in some super shady biznass to be at a park at 1am.
 
2013-07-08 05:14:35 PM  

Elegy: TOXICOLOGY IS IN.


Thanks gawd the jury will now know the guy was a POT USER.

Something that will now be available in the courthouse vending machines in Colorado and Washington state.
 
2013-07-08 05:15:36 PM  
Drugs allowed, and also testimony as to what getting your ass beat can do to your head(in if nonspecific terms that are not directly supportive of his story of events).  Judge must have had a sand rinse over the 4th.  Who cares about the 3d thing after that?
 
2013-07-08 05:16:28 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Cletus C.: tenpoundsofcheese: Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you Parnoid violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

FTFY
A paranoid person being followed by a crazy ass cracker who has beaten up a snitch before - not a high likelihood for a pleasant confrontation

Pot paranoia makes you flee, if anything. Usually to hide behind the potted plant.

Not everyone reacts the same way to paranoia.  There is fight and flight.


I have researched this very drug over many years with many people. I believe I have standing as an expert witness. Smoking weed is not what got Trayvon Martin killed.
 
2013-07-08 05:16:35 PM  

s2s2s2: NightOwl2255: Well, Zimmerman made sure he was punished for it*. And it won't happen again.

*And what else? It's ok. You are safe here. You can actually refer to all the stuff that happened between "was out" and "was 'punished'."


Calm down Tex, the bad man is dead. St. George will likely go free. All is well in the world.
 
2013-07-08 05:17:46 PM  

nekom: The Muthaship: Abuse Liability: was not intoxicated at the time of the incident

Dr. Bao said he was.  After he said he wasn't.  Then he said it had no effect, or some effect.  Or somewhere in between.  This is opinion.  No fact.

Give him a break, he was under the oath.


we don't know how much he smoked or whether or not he was a chronic user. This will confound the interpretation
 
2013-07-08 05:17:52 PM  

Abuse Liability: The levels of THC found in his blood were about 1.5 ng/ml.  This means its had probably been anywhere from 3-12 hours since he had smoked last  (depending on the size of the joint and THC content) and was not intoxicated at the time of the incident.


This is probably the case, they recently passed some impairment laws for driving in Colorado and they are:

Under HB 1325, drivers caught with 5 nanograms of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana which produces the "high" sensation, in their blood would be considered too stoned to drive and could be ticketed similarly to a person who was considered too drunk to drive.

so I could see why they can't even use that as evidence at those levels.
 
2013-07-08 05:18:11 PM  

NightOwl2255: Calm down Tex


If you don't want bites, don't go fishing.
 
2013-07-08 05:18:38 PM  

Cletus C.: Abuse Liability: Cletus C.: creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.

If there's one thing we know about marijuana, it's that it makes you violently aggressive.  So yes, very important evidence.

Once again, not relevant.  If anything, withdrawing from drugs makes you irritable if you're going to beat that overworked cliche.

People suffer withdrawal from pot? I'm learning a lot about marijuana here.


I know you're attempting to be a smartass, but yes, Marijuana - as well as anything that affects pleasure receptors - can cause somewhat severe psychological withdrawals. The W/Ds aren't the same as say, an opiate withdrawal, where you will have physical contributions to the overall package, but you still have the mental portion.

Seeing as how aggression, paranoia, etc. (though I in no way believe this was related to withdrawals, or is an issue of marijuana making Trayvon violent) are PSYCHOLOGICAL factors, this is again, highly relevant.


However, I don't believe the defense is at all going for this to establish a predisposition to aggression - I believe they are using it to show that Zimerman was not inaccurate in his statement that Martin appeared to be on drugs, and to defend from the accusation of prejudice. I also believe it serves a secondary purpose as establishing Martin's character (not saying weed makes someone a bad person - lord knows I've done tons of drugs and am in no way against them - however, the whole thug thing and drug usage tend to go hand-in-hand even though it is not a definite).
 
2013-07-08 05:19:00 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Not even the SYG defense allows for you to leave and then come back to start "Defending" yourself so by leaving you have forfeited SYG as a later defense.


This seems to not be the case under Florida law as you can start a fight and if you are losing, and fear for your life, you can still use lethal force.
 
2013-07-08 05:19:12 PM  
Cletus C.:
I have researched this very drug over many years with many people. I believe I have standing as an expert witness. Smoking weed is not what got Trayvon Martin killed.

I would agree.  I think it's EXTREMELY unlikely it contributed to his death in any way.

/internet Ph.D. in weed science
 
2013-07-08 05:19:29 PM  

Cletus C.: Elegy: TOXICOLOGY IS IN.

Thanks gawd the jury will now know the guy was a POT USER.

Something that will now be available in the courthouse vending machines in Colorado and Washington state.


Not to Trayvon Martin, he was only 17.

What are you, one of those radical hippies that gives your kids pot?
 
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